Trope Pantheons Discussion

I added some stuff to Stein's profile. Is there anyone out there who's known for curing mental health, be it through magical or mundane means?

Dr. Franken Stein, God of Frankenstein homages

• Intermediate God
• Potential House: Fictional Expies
• Symbol: The screw in his head
• Alignment: Chaotic Good, briefly Chaotic Evil in the anime under Medusa's control
• Portfolio: The only 5 star meister in the DWMA and also a teacher, Creepy Good, completely lacking a tragic backstory to explain his attitude, excellent in various fighting styles, Token Evil Teammate, marries Marie and has a kid with her
• Domains: Science, Insanity
• Herald: Marie Mjolnir (his wife)
• Allies: All of the good Soul Eater Gods, Jack Skellington, Kiritsugu Emiya & Irisviel von Einzbern, Fran Madaraki, Senku Ishigami
• Enemies: Medusa Gorgon, Junkrat and Roadhog
• Evil Counterparts: Lord Karl Heisenberg, Shou Tucker, Professor Hojo, Ryoma Sengoku, Relius Clover
• Annoyed by: Excalibur
• Respects: Smoker
• Interested in: Frankenstein's Monster, the House of Otherness
• Conflicted Opinion: the Bebop Crew
• Feared by: Oogie Boogie, almost every sane person in the Pantheons
• Banned from: The House of Life and Vitality
• Shadow Archetype: Victor Frankenstein
• Within the DWMA, there's a teacher who surpassed all other students back when he was one himself. Dr. Franken Stein saw countless opportunities to experiment on others and dissect them for his own amusement, either with their consent, or if they're evil. That said, he's still pragmatic enough to kill his opponents quickly without making them suffer. His general appearance and mindset have allowed him to ascend as a homage to Dr. Frankenstein.
• Upon entering the Pantheons, Stein was pleased to see many familiar faces from his series. Granted, he was pretty subdued about it, they could tell he was happy. Spirit in particular is willing to lend a hand should he ever need a weapon to fight with (provided that he doesn't let his obsession with dissecting get the better of him).
  • And that turned out to be good idea, since Medusa Gorgon is also here. Despite coming from the events of the manga, they can still remember how in the anime, Medusa took control of Stein. He vows to never let that happen again, for the sake of the younger generation. While he did make a comment about performing experiments on his own child, he was just kidding about the whole thing, while Medusa feels no guilt over her treatment of Crona, to everyone's disgust.
  • One God that Stein did NOT wish to see again was Excalibur. He apparently had a bad time trying to become his meister, so the very thought of him being nearby was enough to bother him (and everyone else). When discussing the Holy Sword Excalibur at one point, he said:
  Stein: "Surprisingly enough, Excalibur can match with anyone. Anyone can match Soul Wavelengths just fine, but there's no one in the world who can match personal wavelengths with Excalibur.
• Due to having to raise a child, Stein has decided to quit smoking, believing it to not be so cool anymore. Because of this, he's had to get into an argument with the Bebop Crew since they seem to think Smoking Is Cool. Spike and Faye are reluctant to comply with this, while Jet is far more understanding in this regard, since he has been willing to bend when this subject comes up. Another God that's known for smoking is Smoker. Since he can turn into smoke, he's a more complicated matter, but even he can just keep his distance if need be. It helps that he's one of the more stable and less hypocritical Marines in his world.
• Stein managed to get along surprisingly well with Kiritsugu and Irisviel. The latter reminds him of his partner Marie since they're both loving people (though Marie can be a bit too willing to punch someone over her passions). Kiritsugu was also able to quit smoking for a time (presumably because of his daughter) and only went back during a war between Mages. That said, Stein and Kiritsugu can still show their dark sides to their opponents, revealing just how scary they can be (though Kiritsugu is a different kind of scary).
• Over at the House of Celebration, Jack Skellington took note of how Stein was able to revive the meister Sid as a zombie. This fascinated him so much that he wanted him to participate in preparations for Halloween. Stein agreed, since he was given a chance to dissect Oogie Boogie to learn about what makes him tick. Oogie Boogie was horrified by this, and made a futile effort to run away. When he was revealed to be a literal bag of bugs, everyone was confused, but Stein took it upon himself to collect all of the bugs to study, wanting to learn how he was animated.
• One of his more relatable interactions was with fellow Mad Scientist Fran Madaraki. They both have a desire to experiment one others, albeit for different reasons. Stein is motivated mostly For Science! despite being a hero, while Fran does it to help people without understanding how much her patients are in pain. She's also impressed at how he managed to resurrect Sid with only cosmetic differences.
• As much as Stein loves to experiment and dissect, he's still a heroic person, through and through. The thought of someone using similar scientific skills for evil is enough to make him an enemy. Villainous scientists such Professor Hojo, Ryoma Sengoku, Relius Clover and Shou Tucker do not get along as well with him as they'd like to. Stein may be crazy, but he's utterly amoral like they are. Relius and Tucker in particular mistreated their wives and daughters beyond repair, something that even Stein is appalled by. That being said, he is interested in the fruits of their research, as a man of science. He's also not willing to ask nicely for them.
• In one house, Stein noticed someone who once dressed like a typical Mad Scientist, along with his partner who donned a costume resembling Frankstein's monster. These two are commonly known as Junkrat and Roadhog, and dressed up for a special event where they acted differently. While this was what caught Stein's attention, he ultimately came to odds with them due to wanting to dissect them. Roadhog hates how cruel Stein can be when this side of him comes out, believing people like him are why he's so full of hate. Junkrat knows after "Going Legit" that he and Roadhog are Trapped in Villainy, so they might as well give it their all to try to kill Stein. Just as a fight was beginning to break out, Spirit arrived to back up Stein, under the condition that he doesn't go too far with his insanity. Stein reluctantly complies, seeing Spirit as a more valuable asset than whatever he could get out of the two villains.
• When it became well-known just how crazy Stein can be at his worst, he was quickly banned from entering the House of Life and Vitality. While they liked the idea of him experimenting on certain villains in that House, the higher-ups thought that would be too painful and excessive, regardless of whether or not they deserve to suffer for their crimes. This merely gave Stein the idea to go to the House of Otherness. There, he'd be less restricted since some of those people are either used to pain or are seen as more acceptable to tamper with. The variety in that House left Stein very astounded, as though he could spend untold amounts of time there.
• After a long time, Stein came across the inspiration for his character, Dr. Victor Frankenstein. This man suffered the consequences for being obsessing with science. He came to regret creating his nameless monster due to how it came out. Stein considers himself lucky that he didn't make the same mistakes as Victor, seeing his upbringing as proof of his terrible luck. It's enough to make Stein relieved that he has others by his side that he can truly call allies, if not friends.
• On a more positive note, his meeting with Senku Ishigami was quite fruitful. Senku (who may already be familiar with Stein's world) was ecstatic to see a fellow scientist, albeit one who focuses more on the power system of his world than a more grounded take on science. Regardless, Stein was able to adapt to this, and the two bonded over a common interest in science. Senku was willing to dissect small objects and dead animals to learn even more than he already knew, and Stein showed he could "get excited" and thought the whole experience was "exhilarating".

And now to propose a Trope Change. I think this trope fits better.

Chaos, Unholy Representative of Eternal Villains

Reasoning: It is the source of all evil in the galaxy and orchestrator of all of the bad stuff that happens over the course of the series, and the creator of the previous Big Bads and was also the one pulling Galaxia’s strings. It will always come back due to the existence of the Galaxy Cauldron, and if Galaxia’s words are to be believed, it will come back even if the Cauldron is destroyed as another one will eventually come into existence elsewhere. Because of the Cauldron, it will keep coming back for eternity, over and over again, most likely until it finally wins. It actually is shown that it does return in the far future. It is made of hatred in the Anime. I genuinely think this trope fits Chaos better than As Long as There Is Evil.

Edited by SailorVenus372 on Jan 15th 2022 at 4:21:07 AM

I approve of the trope change

Standard repost time

Thrax, The God With a Diseased Name (El Muerte Rojo, the Red Death, Big Daddy Thrax)

• Votes: 4(Vengeful Bale, Crimson Shark, Necromancer 10, Excessive-Menace)
• Date of rework: 17 January (repost 15 January)
• Note: Rework
• Quasideity, Lesser God on a cellular level (capable of killing at least Lesser Deity humans)
• Symbol: His glowing left index claw
• Alignment: Chaotic Evil
• Portfolio: Asserts His Authority Through Asskicking, Badass Longcoat, Bad Boss, Being Surprisingly Slick For How Depraved He Is, Diseased Name, Desires Fame Through Infamy, Both Causes and Suffers a Family Unfriendly Death, a Name to Run Away From Really Fast, Nearly Succeeded, Omnicidal Maniac, Plays With Fire, Red and Black and Evil All Over, Sadist, Serial Killer, Touch of Death, a Vile Villain in a Saccharine Show, Would Hurt a Child And Senior, Evil Is Burning Hot, Touch of Death
• Interested in: Thaal Sinestro
• Allies: Nurgle, Typhus, Peryite, Pestilence the Horseman, Judge Mortis, Fabius Bile, SCP-106, Hexxus, Freddy Krueger
• Teeth-Clenched Teamwork with: Ultron
• Enemies: Osmosis Jones, Jake Muller and Sherry Birkin, the Question, SCP-040, SCP-049, Morpheus, Mario (as Dr Mario), The SCP Foundation, any good-aligned doctor (see the Hall of Physicians and some of Healers), most of the House of Law and Justice, Jean-Pierre Polneraff, Noriaki Kakyoin, Ray Palmer, Hank Pym, Melman, The Green Lantern Corps (especially Guy Gardner), The Emotions, Alfyn
• Fears: The Hall of Alcohol
• Wary of: The House of Madness and Insanity
• Disrespects: Eddie Low
• The suave yet utterly deadly Thrax is a virus with an ego and an reputation of infamy he seeks. He tends to strike at those with bad hygiene, where he would remove a DNA bead from the hypothalamus and cause a continual increase of body temperature until the victim dies of fever. This proves apocalyptic for the cell population, and he intends to beat his record each time to get into the medical books as a legendary plague. He almost succeeded with Frank DeTorre however Osmosis Jones and Drix managed to best him and send him plummeting into a sample of alcohol; lethal to his kind.
• When Thrax met his end at the hands of Osmosis Jones, he thought it was all over. Instead, however, he awoke as if it had all just been a dream. Instead of the expected eternal blackness of death, his eyes were met with the towering figure of Nurgle, who extended a welcoming hand. The Lord of Decay explained to the confused Thrax that he had indeed died, but would be able to start a new life among the ranks of the Pantheon, should he accept the invitation. Needless to say, Thrax eagerly accepted. It's still a subject of great debate as to what he is. His name seems to be derived from anthrax, a bacteria, but both Thrax and Ozzy insist that he is a virus. The Question, however, was quick to point out that Thrax behaves much more like a bioweapon. Thrax is becoming increasingly annoyed with the Question's spreading of this rumor, but will not confirm or deny the validity of his claims.
• Thrax is kept under very close watch, at least by the more good-aligned higher-ups of the Pantheon. A plot to create more of his kind and potentially start a plague has been unearthed with Typhus, Pestilence, and Judge Mortis as the leading conspirators. Later on Peryite arrived, much to his dark joy. Jake Muller and Sherry Birkin, however, have proven to be somewhat of a dent in their plans. Their inability to become infected is nothing short of baffling, and Thrax is incredibly resentful of them for it. The alliances he's formed are done with the hopes of gaining the power to enlarge himself to human size at will so he can kill more in-your-face, and to increase the range of vectors he can use to infect.
• Being a pathogen, SCP-049 has no tolerance for Thrax. His ascension has further fueled the SCP's delusions and paranoia over a worldwide plague that (hopefully) does not actually exist. The Plague Doctor accurately surmised that Thrax is the viral equivalent of a Serial Killer, and has requested the SCP Foundation neutralize him. While this isn't usually what they do, they did agree Thrax may be anomalous and if proven would be locked up as a Euclid-class anomaly. Thrax was enraged by being declared a "mere" Euclid, and plans to up his game until he's at least Keter-class. To achieve this Fame Through Infamy his first set of orders is to gut the Halls of Healers and Physicians. They're currently working on a vaccine to eliminate him.
• The SCP Foundation considers it important that Thrax never learns about any pathogen-based SCP like SCP-008 or 610/The Flesh That Hates less he try to "upgrade" himself. And letting SCP-353 ascend is right out because the two would make fast friends. Unfortunately Thrax made fast friends with one notorious SCP; SCP-106. The latter uses rot instead of heat and fever to kill his prey, but like Thrax he's a sadistic Serial Killer who doesn't like the Foundation. Since the Old Man is a rotting corpse he's immune to any backstab Thrax might attempt. Before the Foundation could apprehend the both of them Fabius Bile stepped in to open them temporary asylum. He's very interested in Thrax's deadliness and has offered him a deal; let him study the Red Death, and he'll aid Thrax in becoming a more transmissable disease. The virus was quick in recognizing the agent of Chaos had similar goals; Fame Through Infamy.
• Thrax's frustration with the SCP Foundation grew when he learned of SCP-500, which can cure absolutely anything. Fortunately for him they're in limited supply, but he still wants all of them destroyed. This rage only grew when they informed Mario of him and as Dr Mario he's researching a new cure for the Red Death. The attention later got the Green Lantern Corps of all people on his ass, since he reminds them of a rather nasty Sinestro Corps member; Despotellis, a sentient virus and genocidal maniac. Guy Gardner had the most trouble with Despotellis so he was especially angry with Thrax. Despite the frustration Thrax was happy to learn of Despotellis and is intrigued by becoming part of the Sinestro Corps, however Sinestro isn't interested in him. Plus it's not like Thrax is The Dreaded, despite his attempts to be so.
• His nasty clawed fingers reminded some people of Freddy Krueger, which he considers a bit compliment. Though they have different modus operandi and Thrax's Faux Affably Evil is more suave than Freddy's coarse, he does appreciate his "art". Freddy usually looks at fans derisively but recognizes Thrax isn't trying to get in the way of him and is fine watching. Their mutual egos mean bickering about their kill list is inevitable, but given they're two monsters it comes off as downright civil; Usually Thrax just competes with the serial killers in the pantheon.
• As he is a Serial Killer, albeit a unique example from a human perspective, the Red Death is wanted by most of the House of Law and Justice. The Emotions also want him gone given their role as being in charge of the mind and personality of the body, however he didn't think much of them as he targets the physical and not mental attributes of the body...at least until the Red Death caught on how they could influence the body to take better precautions against his spread. Also, it's worth mentioning out of the Eight Travelers Thrax considers Alfyn the biggest pain as she's concocted a potion to cure plagues. His willingness to target kids only intensified her hatred of the virus.
• Thrax isn't exactly sure how he feels about Morpheus. He never openly admits it, but he finds it to be really creepy how they happen to sound exactly alike. Naturally Morpheus regards the Red Death as an abomination. To fight him he has exploited one of the very few things Thrax fears; alcohol, the same substance that caused his Family-Unfriendly Death. The Red Death has shown a reluctance to deal with that house, and a lesser reluctance to deal with the House of Madness and Insanity. The latter is not wanting to deal with more disturbance than Frank's subconscious.
• Because Thrax is microscopic in size, he's difficult for almost anyone to throw hands with without risking whatever body he happens to be in. This is why out of the many superheroes, he considers Hank Pym and Ray Palmer's ability to get down to his level a massive pain in the ass. Polneraff and Kakyoin can manage fighting him by shrinking down their Stands. Ultron suggested he could help Thrax deal with them, which he agreed but was surprisingly hesitant to do so. After all, he wants a human audience for his infamy and a world of only Ultron's machine would put a damper on that.
• While not outright banned from the House of Childhood and Adolescence, he isn't well-liked there because one of his victims was a girl who didn't wash her hands. Of course Thrax doesn't discriminate in who he goes up against like grown adults or old people so long as he makes sure he keeps his winning streak, so kids aren't in any less danger against him like anyone else. Despite Melman's justified fear of the Red Death he's not interested in transferring to giraffes, but this is only because killing humans grants far more notoriety. And while a Serial Killer he doesn't like Eddie Low, but again this isn't because Even Evil Has Standards; he just thinks his impulsive crimes are those of a childish little shit and he'd be damned if the Keep-Fit Killer overshadows him in the news.
  • There's one human he refuses to infect, however: the Demoman. Again, this has nothing to do with standards but Pragmatic Villainy; the Demoman's such an alcoholic his body can ferment the stuff.
• Has a passing interest in the Hall of Forms of Immortality. While he hasn't tried to do anything yet, Thrax takes any immortal as a challenge to prove they aren't and gain notoriety by taking them out. The Red Death is a fever that leads the body temperature rising without end, and even if that doesn't kill them he imagines it can't be pleasant; so a fun night for him. His time loitering around in the House of Life and Creation got him the attention of SCP-040, whom he finds a major pain due to her ability to manipulate biology and take him down, and Darth Plagueis, who noticed they both shared the Diseased Name trait but otherwise looks at him with mere clinical scientific interest. Thrax personally finds the Sith associated with healing and life-creation to have an unfitting moniker.
• He's quite amused by how many fans of the movie consider him stylish and even sexy, however he gets livid when they ship him with Osmosis, something gods like to troll him with. For once, him and Ozzy are in agreement they consider the pairing disgusting, though only Thrax will try to murder whoever brings it up. His mood was improved when people compared him to Hexxus in the charisma side, and the Red Death admits the dude is as suave as him. There's a more practical side to their friendship, of course; the pollution Hexxus brings weakens people's health, making them more susceptible to Thrax.

Manaphy, God Of Coming From An Egg With Its Pattern (The Seafaring Pokémon, Prince of the Sea)

• Votes: 4(Crimson Shark, Excessive-Menace, Necromancer 10, Bazzardreturns)
• Date of ascension: 18 January(repost 16 January)
• Hall: Color Combinations (House of Colours)
• Intermediate God
• Symbol: The egg it was born from
• Theme Songs: Prince of the Sea, Play with Manaphy
• Alignment: Neutral Good
• Ability: Hydration
• Gender: Genderless (identifies as male)
• Moveset: Heart Swap, Tail Glow, Dive, Water Pulse
  • Z-Move: Hydro Vortex
• Portfolio: Being A Mythical Water Type, No Biological Sex, "Freaky Friday" Flip, Can Bond With Any Pokemon, Based Off A Clione Or Sea Angel, Purposely Overpowered, Pattern-Coded Eggs Unlike Any Main-Series Pokemon, Strong, Balanced Stats, King Mook
• Domains: Eggs, Water, Mythicals, Soul Swapping, Cliones, The Sea
• Herald: Phione (its maybe mythical offspring)
• Allies
  • Fellow Pokemon deities: May, Ash Ketchum, The Pokemon Rangers, Ash's Pikachu, Brock, Nurse Joy and Officer Jenny, Cynthia, Nebby, Relicanth, Archie
  • Other allies: King Triton, Spongebob Squarepants, Ponyo, Artur Curry, Captain Planet, SCP-999, Princess Ruto
  • Partner: Milo James Thatch
• On good terms with: Water-type Pokémon as a whole, the Inklings, Octolings, Callie, Marie and Off The Hook, The Sea Angels
• Enemies
  • Fellow Pokemon deities: Pokemon Hunter J, Jessie and James, Giovanni, Ghetsis Harmonia, Lysandre, Pokemon "Trainer" Rusty
  • Other enemies: Ursula, Tamatoa, The Kraken, Bruce the Shark, Anago, Any poacher, Lyle Tiberius Rourke, Surtr, Hexxus, Mr Burns, Octogeddon
• Annoyed by: The Flying Spaghetti Monster
• Distrusts: Pirates regardless of alignment (excluding Luffy and his friends) and the Hall of Piracy, Orm Marius/the Ocean Master
• Opposed by: Squidward Tentacles
• Fears: SCP-169, Cthulhu and the Kraeken, The Flood (Doctor Who)
• Wary of: The House of Plants and Hall of Electricity
• Most Pokémon, at least in the game, share a generic green-spotted eggshell design. The sea angel/clione Manaphy instead has a sea-blue egg with a red center and yellow dots similar to its appearance as a grown Pokemon. It is also the only mythical recorded seen coming from an egg, and being capable of breeding in a Pokémon daycare (albeit only with Ditto and producing the weaker Phione). Born on a cold seafloor, it will swim great distances to return to its birthplace. It has a wonderous power to bond with any kind of Pokémon. The species is 80% water, making them highly affected by their environment.
• This Manaphy has been identified as the grown up version of the very same one from the ninth Pokemon movie. Choosing that Manaphy was partly brand recognition, and partly because the Seafaring Pokémon arrived here after actively seeking out its mother figure May. It has decided to identify as male as while it is genderless, it is known as the Prince of the Sea. He continues to guard the sea temple of Samiya and prevent people from trying to steal the Sea Crown. The area serves as his temple, and the Mythical has expanded his communication skills with others from the same 'verse.
  • Because of the rarity of Manaphy and the valuables of Samiya, Pokémon Hunter J considers stealing from it and putting Manaphy on the black market incredibly profitable. With the ability to bond with any Pokemon, J's sheer heartlessness befuddles and horrifies the Prince of the Sea. Giovanni has also regarded the Mythical as little more than a source of profit, and Manaphy is greatly disturbed by what Lysandre has in store or the lows Ghetsis sinks to. By contrast, former villain Archie is deeply fascinated by the Prince of the Sea and Samiya, and has sworn to protect it as part of his redemption.
  • He's generally happy to meet up with Ash again for his part in saving the day, and was impressed to learn he eventually obtained his own Mythical Pokémon in the form of Meltan/Melmetal. Manaphy has remained grateful for the Pokémon Rangers for their organization's part in helping it. Cynthia was invited to explore Samiya so she can better understand the land and Manaphy. Water-type Pokémon are usually welcome, especially Relicanth who's experienced with ancient ruins given its connection with the Regis. One of Manaphy's friends is Nebby, a baby that grew up to an even stronger Olympus Mons.
• The species Manaphy takes inspiration from, the sea angel, is the same kind of obscure sea slug that the Sea Angels represent. He's implied that the Phione serving as his herald was the result of time with a Sea Angel, though he might just not want to admit to meeting with Ditto; whether Phione is considered Mythical is often disputed, but the connection prevents them from being used in tournaments. The Prince of the Sea's relationship with the Sea Angels remains more casual than anything, however. Sometimes he likes to bring Phione to join in the fun of Splatfest or associate with their fellow mollusks. The squid girl Ika Musume tried to use the situation as one of her schemes, but the Prince of the Sea couldn't take her seriously and was just amused by her antics.
• Manaphy quickly associated the People of the Waters the sea temple of Samiya to the tales of many seafaring societies with sea-based ruins, but being relatively young for a Mythical admits there's still more he needs to find out about them. To aid him in this, Manaphy picked Milo Thatch as a partner because of his research on Atlantis and important role in saving it from greedy villains like Commander Rourke. After their meeting, both King Triton and Arthur Curry went on a diplomatic appointment to Samiya and congratulated the Prince of the Sea for how well he's managed to run the sea temple despite his youth. The two have since advise him further on his duties as Prince of the Sea.
• Orm is well-aware of Manaphy's bond with his brother and he wants to get the Mythical on his side, being genuinely friendly and giving him advice on how to rule. While Manaphy appreciates this, he knows about Ocean Master's villainy and fraught relationship with his half-brother so he doesn't trust him. They were in agreement that Black Manta is a blight on the ocean, and he'd certainly try to kill him and May just to spite Aquaman. Manaphy's relationship with Princess Ruto was a lot less difficult due to her being genuinely heroic, and being next in-heir of the Zora's leadership.
• Ursula is currently seeking to take control of Samiya as her new base of operations. While Manaphy is a Mythical Pokémon, he is still considered young and it's not like the People of the Water are around anymore so he needs help to stop the Sea Witch from usurping his position. Said help would come in Rikuo the fish-man, and Ponyo who's similarities to Ariel has long since played into her opposition with Ursula. Aiding the villain was Tamatoa, who was promised half the "shi—-nees" of Samiya and Anago, who wants to take a Manaphy-like role so his plans of a cult will gain more ground than if it was just him alone.
• Doesn't like pirates. While some like Luffy and his friends are exceptions to the rule, Manaphy is distrustful of them because of the pirate Phantom having tried to steal him as an egg and steal the Sea Crown from Samiya. The Flying Spaghetti Monster took umbridge at this since pirates are holy to his noodly appendages and not the villains people think they are. The Pastafarian god continued to try and convert the Mythical to his way of thinking, much to Manaphy's annoyance, and that annoyance was only fueled when Samiya got flooded by pasta sauce because the Flying Spaghetti Monster squeezed the cannister too hard after shaking it.
• Manaphy's (former) signature move is Heart Swap, which swaps stat changes with the opponent using the ends of their head-tails. Another use of this power is the ability to swap people's souls with one another. Upon hearing about this Spongebob got the idea he could try and make Squidward less of a grump by walking a mile in his shoes, and did it in exchange for a free Krabby Patty^note don't worry about Mr Krabs, since Spongebob payed him double. This went terribly for Squidward since he got jealous at "Squidbob" getting the hang of and being a great clarinet artist while he failed to inherit Spongebob's fry cooking skills and was annoyed by Patrick more than usual. He's still salty about it to this day.
• By nature Manaphy is a highly empathetic Pokémon that tends to get along with anyone in the Hall of Aquatic Life. Sure he has enmity with Bruce and the Kraken, but only because they keep trying to eat him. The SCP Foundation have observed the Prince of the Sea laughing hysterically after some Friendly Tickle Torture by SCP-999, followed by general cuddles and affection along with the Seafaring Pokémon respecting the blob's immense compassion. The Foundation has so far demonstrated restraint from using Manaphy's Heart Swap on SCP-682, since even if it works it's possible the new personality in 682 might become like the lizard's.
• Because Manaphy lives in a sea temple and is 80% water, he holds a mortal terror of the Flood and the absolute catastrophe that'd break out if it infected him. He's almost as afraid of SCP-169 since it's an impossibly large sea arthropod who's awakening would be disastrous. The Seafaring Pokémon has come to tread more carefully after learning about Cthulhu and the Kraeken as well, and nobody blames him. It should also go without saying Manaphy avoids any plant or electricity-related gods, and he's no fan of Octogeddon for destroying human monuments for mere insults and the existence of calamari.
• Due to being native to the sea, Manaphy hates blatant polluters like Mr Burns and especially Hexxus as they would ruin the sea if they win. Mr Burns is a bit confused by this since he thought netting sea creatures into slurry was good for the government and something the Pokémon might appreciate. In order to protect the environment better Manaphy has been supporting Captain Planet. One of the first things they did together was punish Rusty for how awful he is as a Pokémon trainer. Other enemies include any poacher given his rarity and how he already feels about Hunter J, and Surtr who wants to burn the world and regards any water-based being as a nuisance in the way of that goal.

Prepare for a long post. Please read this carefully before creating an argument.

The TV Tropes Pantheon as a whole is a project. It is a Just for Fun project that is maintained by various tropers who are dedicated to the concept. To maintain it, projects in general require planning, foresight and dedication. One aspect all projects share, big or small, is a scope or how much does the project extend into. This part is important because a scope not only outlines what the project can morph into but can help set up expectations for what the project and its contributors can achieve. Now, there is a case for projects to go beyond the scope, where the project has excessive and unstable growth and cannot be controlled by the contributors involved. This case is called scope creep and is a vital issue that I believe is the Pantheon's main flaw, not the speed of the profiles, but what the Pantheon is supposed to extend into.

Scope creep: refers to changes, continuous or uncontrolled growth in a project's scope, at any point after the project begins. This can occur when the scope of a project is not properly defined, documented, or controlled. - According to wikipedia.

Now, ask yourselves: what is the Pantheon supposed to be, or more importantly, what is the core function/root of the Pantheon? Well it boils down to two important cores:

• What If? certain characters from various media met.
• Finding characters that best represent tropes of various kinds.

These two cores make up the Pantheon's premise: to represent characters in a Pantheon-like theme, like the same with Greek/Roman/religious Pantheon format. It is why the Pantheon and Ascension terms come into play. To apply these two cores, this is done through each House in the project, where a character is added but has a requirement to add a trope into their title to have entrance. This is how you apply both of them in one concept.

With the core functions mentioned, where does the remaining Pantheon pages align with these core functions? The Grand United Alliances, various organizations (Order of Humanity, Harbingers of Repression, the Groups page), and other pages such as the Pantheon Nanos, Personas, Landmarks, Mon Relationships and Name the Same page. None.

Edited by HamanaHamanaHamana on Jan 15th 2022 at 10:05:28 PM

Chaos’ trope has been changed to Eternal Villain. As Long as There Is Evil is now free.

I have an old profile of mine I would like to rework and improve

• Satan, God of Loser Devils: a rework. South Park's Satan was one of my early profiles and as such it has really shown its age, so I would like to improve it. In South Park Satan is kind of a push over. He was an abused partner with Saddam Hussein, is somewhat whiny and even God called him out for no longer being the headstrong rebel. He's pretty nice for the lord of damnation and is sometimes a badass, but in villainy and hardness he's lacking

As someone who'd be less affected by such a big purge, I do think that a less absolute method is possible to move on the Pantheon's scope creep problem. I don't intend to defend the Alliances as much as offering a better way to directly address the problems they've caused. The Alliances and the war-like conflict between them doesn't deserve any spotlight over the profiles, yes, but I want to state alternatives to making the Alliances removed from the old "War of Badasses and Epicness" that old Pantheon standards tried to set up, which would focus on certain standards that are mandatory to get rid of and prevent scope creep:

• Decentralizing the Alliances: I'm dead set that none of the whole "worldbuilding" set by the Alliances, let alone Stories, should have any major influence on the profiles. Interactions between profiles and secondary writing should be mainly one-way, with profiles being the influencer, not the influencee. Making the Alliances significant to profiles in any way would eventually lead to organizations and alliances making profile creation harder, which is what any solution should prevent. The Alliances can be good for convenience to refer to sets of deities with similar goals or traits, if it's something the character would do regardless of Alliance presence. Anything further to that should be made more exclusive to Alliance-related writing and not the profile. More importantly, the Alliances should be written to be secondary events based on profiles at most, since anything more than that will make people see the Alliances as some universal requirement for profiles to get involved in, which is a big no. When newcomers see the Pantheon, the two main core concepts you mentioned should be the only thing they need to care about. The Alliances, if properly redone to organize deities of alignments and roles without trying to be the main event, can be kept as a tool of convenience for profiles, and something for the more genuinely interested users to expand through profiles, and only said interested users, and nothing more.
• Mundanifying the Alliances: While most users here I'd say have moved on from hype-based writing, there is a lot of Pantheon writing that focuses on warfare, groups that are based around big dramatic conflicts, and little care for the more mundane or incomprehensible parts of the Pantheon. A lot of parts here do need deletion, and replacements with more general occupations that relate to Alliances' alignments. Many of the changes I want to propose for a rework intend to pretty much kill any urge to use the Alliances for character or franchise shilling for good, on top of preventing the Alliances from just being a showcase of popular and hip genres and franchises, let alone leave room for much writing biased toward talking about characters' epicness or badassery.
• Also, on your third point, I do agree that there is going to be a lot of controversy on what should stay or be removed, and it's probably why you think an absolute widespread deletion is necessary. What I hope is to figure out the precise standards of which future writing for non-profile content should be set to, and proper discerning between what can be reworked to fit set standards and what has to go regardless of others' objections. As far as what I've figured out for my resolution toward a rework, there's certainly going to be plenty of content removal going on, but I intend to present a line for current and future writing to go by to keep writing set away from past mistakes and temptations, having fallen for some of them myself. While I understand or agree on a majority of your arguments, and think that either a major and impactful rework or purge would be better in the long-run, but I want to give my input of what I think is a better resolution.

I'll admit, it's gonna be a rough time to sort out the reformables to the unsalvageable. It may take some months, though we'd rather not take immediate action, and wait until we've caught up on things like reworks. And depending on how contested and argumentative we get over choosing new sets of leaders, or if some users persist in trying to make the Alliances the big display of the Pantheon, if it ends up being too hard to move on to a rework with more decentralized and genre-spanning, and less drama/badassery-promoting Alliances, complete deletion may be a considerable alternative if many are too stubborn.

Edited by Necromancer10 on Jan 15th 2022 at 11:09:05 AM

Is it possible to split the Alliances off into a new forum game? Like a spinoff of the spinoff that is the Pantheons?

I’m down with this, and this actually highlights a big issue with the Pantheon.

For all the talk of how the Forever War is massive in scope and completely epic, rarely if ever, do the Deities act like it’s even going on when you read the profiles. The gods are almost always doing their own things and meeting up with other divinities in ways that do not involve the war at all. You never here about a god gearing up for war or meeting other gods as war buddies, leaving the war as a footnote when it should logically be the biggest deal in the history of big deals.

Also, I think the alliances might benefit from a ranking system independent of the Divine Ranks that reflects their actual standing within the organization rather than their Power Level.

Edited by GeneralGigan on Jan 15th 2022 at 11:41:59 AM

@Hanama, you contradicted yourself with your own statement. The Grand United Alliances serve as a What If? with all these characters from different worlds meeting, with the characters dedicated to their morality more so than others teaming up to protect their ideas. While I can understand the deletions of Landmarks, I still feel like the problem is going to circle around with people asking just what is in the Pantheon, and thus needing this page to come back. I can be swayed by the idea of the Mon Partnership being erased, even if I still believe it follows the What If? philosophy of having random characters meeting Pokémon and becoming their owners. I do understand and agree with the idea of the deletion of Pantheon Nanos, Personas and the Names The Same pages being deleted (and I thought we already deleted that Personas page and all mentions to it).

While I do understand the deletions of Nanos, Personas, and Names The Same page, I'm still iffy on fully deleting the Landmarks and Mon Partnership (especially the former if the Pantheon is going to become an "epic", then some locations will be needed to liven the world up), and deleting the Grand United Alliances is still a flat out no from me. I do agree that the alliances shouldn't hold that much sway over the profiles, but I'm also set on feeling like deleting everything would be like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Plus, you're only still talking about stuff you want to delete without saying what you want to add in their place. I do think Necromancer offered a better solution, with the Alliances becoming less focused on, stopping the whole Forever War business and having them focus on smaller affairs tied to the houses best suited for them. It would minimalize their scope yet still give them something to do.

Now good thing I never actually typed anything into the flavor text of YHVH and Lucifer yet and now I’ll just wait since this looks like to be the endgame regarding these things.

I actually agree with Hamtaro that the GUA stuff hasnt really brought anything but more arguements to contend to (I have fulfilled my Character Development of agreeing with him now). I only offered the idea to rework the GUA stuff because there so much adamancy on keeping it there but I am bombarded lately over YHVH profile. So many are obsessed how this yellow Simpson’s role in the GUA stuff by people who barely contributed to the Pantheon outside of it, I really wonder if they would care about the Pantheon the GUA stuff was removed. I cant tell if thats a good sign.

As a guy who made the Pantheon Nanos, it was a good idea at the time with a unique concept that is still to me pretty cool. But it just devolved to more DB shilling because I and others couldnt bother with it. Its the same thing that happened to Scepter Upgrades and even the rules I placed there were ignored. This kinda showcases no matter how hard we try to fix something, someone will just open the floodgates to repeat it. I am hotdogged between either trying to make people happy with reworks and realistically knowing that we are just extending something we’ll keep fighting over.

I just wanna freaking go finish off my sandbox so I can rework most of the stuff I made. Yeezus, I just went through the Swamp of Sorrow and like that, I just want this argument to reach a conclusion.

Edited by M1gamiTensei on Jan 15th 2022 at 8:57:14 AM

Wait until end of 2022 where Hamana argues that making profiles does nothing to contribute to the scope of the Pantheon.

Now’s not the time for that, kiddo.

That means we shouldn't do the profile of the main characters of Senran Kagura together?

Purges, Purges Everywhere...

But seriously, why do I get the feeling that some people on here just aren't interested in creating crossover stories but instead just want a list of characters that are the best representations particular tropes. I get that things get convoluted frequently with tropes changes, character deletions and developments within ongoing stories. But my assumption is that the Pantheon is not just a list or compilation of different medias, but a fan made Massive Multiplayer Crossover of epic proportions.

Because things are not shackled by lawyers, copyrights or even language barriers, you guys created something so creative and so beautiful that I hope that people are creating changes, not out of arbitrary reasons, but to improve the system so that it makes it easier future tropers to participate this half-baked experiment.

I just hope that most tropers (regardless of biases, intentions motivations and actions) try to remember number one rule when you contribute to the Pantheon - It's Just for Fun.

Sorry for the rambling but I hope that the changes coming (whatever you feel those changes should be) are out of good intentions.

Everyone here has the best intentions for the Pantheon. Even the guys who want to delete it. Difficulty is differentiating if those good intentions are out of a selfish need or the genuine foreseeing betterment.

Considering that GUA pages has not been updated significantly as we want to like adding pictures and folders even though we said we would for the longest time, its an indicator to me deep down that nobody really wants to bother to do it at least willingly. I know time exists but first steps are important and if nobody wants to.

Considering my reworks right now, we’re at a perfect crossroads moment

Edited by M1gamiTensei on Jan 15th 2022 at 10:07:28 AM

The alliances and stories are more like supplementary tales for me. Fun and have some impact on profiles, but it feels more up to you how "canon" they are...in what amounts to fanfiction

Regardless, the profiles were the main point of the Pantheon in the first place, and with how the scope creep is becoming a bigger problem to newcomers and others writing profiles that have no reason to be involved in huge conflicts, the current Alliances and their reckless ambition is bound to muddle newer writers about having to deal with alliances and big-shot groups that complicate work even when there wouldn't be a need to get involved with the Alliances. And getting potential feedback swamped away by discussions on Alliance leadership. Doesn't sound fun, does it?

As interesting as the Alliances can be, if they're getting in the way of making profiles, which should be the main appeal, instead of helping, there's a need for some change to be done.

Edited by Necromancer10 on Jan 15th 2022 at 1:13:51 PM

Phantom@ The original Pantheon were just short profiles from different media. Nothing really big.

See, this is why I think something like the old Restructure thread should come back. Have a forum to talk about the story-elements and argue about characterization while the main discussion is done for developing and reworking the main article of profiles

Edited by RJ-19-CLOVIS-93 on Jan 16th 2022 at 5:16:57 AM

Honestly, that sounds like a good idea. That way, profiles (both new and reworks) won't get ignored if people are busy debating about reworking the lore, GUA's and other things about the Pantheon.

By the way, I'm interested in updating the Pantheon Landmarks so the entries aren't so barren and laconic.

Edited by Excessive-Menace on Jan 15th 2022 at 10:55:06 AM

Okay, time for a breather and response to the established points:

• @Clovis and @Excessive. I believe one thread is enough. I would like not to attract too much attention to other tropers because our centralized thread was split into three threads. Plus, as I said before, projects in general must have stabilized management. Splitting it into fragments will only hamper management since you have to keep track of the other thread. This is also so that everyone who are contributors to the thread will be notified of the next course of action, that being reworking and deletion of these pages.

• @Thomas. No, it will be absolutely unnecessary. I suggest we fix the roots before doing other "spinoffs" for that matter.

• @Phantom. The second core of my argument and what is says in the title page of the Pantheon clearly states: Finding characters that best represent tropes of various kinds. So yes, it is originally meant to be like that as mentioned by Whirl. Also, to continue with Necromancer's response, trying to manage the profiles with the alliances/groups will only make things worse for people not interested with those and only reinforces bias towards certain franchises and series, something we have been adamantly trying to remove.

• @TPPR. I would kindly ask you to leave if you will continue your passive-aggressive notion. Notice how I have become more blunt with criticism because of how deep-rooted most of these problems are. Oh and just to clarify, this is not a problem I have, but with multiple tropers that I have contacted with. You may pack your bags and leave if you are against the un-Epic-fying of the Pantheon.

• @kingvideogames and @Gigan. Unfortunately you did not read the entirety of what Necromancer offered.
  • For you kingvideogames, you forgot the second core of the argument: Finding characters that best represent tropes of various kinds. The argument I posted showed that the profiles fulfilled both core aspects without removing the other. The groups, pages and alliances only serve one of the cores but not the other so it is less of utilizing it and more of excluding it. Also, as mentioned in the arguments portion, the worldbuilding or as what you said, the "What is the Pantheon all about" is worthless if the profiles and characters in question are not developed. Oh and just to clarify: Pantheonic Personas is still active despite the approvals to delete it.
  • For you Gigan, I have noticed that your continued defense and reworking of these pages is starting to pile up. The argument I offered was never just about the Forever War, it was aimed at the nature of the pages in question, which is why I included the other pages and factions because they served no purpose other than niche interests. This is not only exclusive to me but both r-lock and wootzits, of which I contacted to just to outline the post in question, have also stated their annoyance with the reliance of such pages. We just want to create profiles first, then create these pages secondary, as is the intention of the Pantheon. Also, as I offered, these pages can instead be transferred to the Wordpress website if you are adamant in defending them.

• @Necromancer While such proposal is organized, I still believe this is more of buying more time than say solving the root problem. As I mentioned earlier, cutting your losses is an important step when it comes to most situations, as not everything can and will be salvaged, especially with how deep-rooted these problems comes off as. Your suggestion is to lower the Alliances/factions' roles but that still leaves the page within the project. But why mundanify the groups when you know, you can just state on the profile itself about the relationship of another character without the group as a medium, which I argue is the simplest answer that has been staring at our face for a long time, and that as I said, the original inspiration of the Pantheon (Roman/Greek Pantheon + Dungeons & Dragons alignment and power-level + tropes) never had alliances/stories of such caliber. I still agree that the Forever War was a mistake and that if the odds are against us, complete deletion is necessary, especially if we, the Pantheon editors want to move on from this mess that our foundation has. It will be slow but it will be the top priority.

As much as many people want to continue their usual schedule, I want many others to think about this before going "bottom page" and whatnot. We are at a crossroads because this problem has been persistent throughout 10+ years of the project's life cycle and everyone has to contribute, as this problem would have never happened had the Pantheon been organized with a leader. Which is why I would take responsibility as the Pantheon's "leader" if it needs to be, as there are many flaws with the Pantheon and its status (profile-stacking, recency bias, tribalism within Discords) that I want to remedy, even if some may see it as "protuding and annoying". This is for the betterment of the Pantheon, whether you have your biases or not.

Edited by HamanaHamanaHamana on Jan 16th 2022 at 3:17:07 AM

I'm of the opinion that there shouldn't be any "leader" regarding this project as a whole. That kind of responsibility would require a lot of time and effort to maintain, which I doubt any one of us would have, plus it would be more stressful with all of the other duties to maintain such as profile making alongside looking over the entire project. Also, I doubt there can be a permanent leader since there might come a day they would leave the project for some reason, and they might abuse their leadership power to input/change/remove stuff without asking for consensus first.

Edited by Excessive-Menace on Jan 15th 2022 at 11:32:24 AM

To avoid a possible "I am the Pantheon" moment on this site, there needs to be a system of checks and balances where no one contributor has all the power to make mass changes without having the majority approval from the other contributors first. Also, having appropriate and respectful arguments to back up their agendas without resorting to verbal attacks and prevent Flame Wars is very important to maintain civil discussions about how imaginary characters would interact with each other.

I guess what I'm trying to say is "Who watches the Tropers?"

Bottom Posting.