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Duplicate Trope: Bishonen

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    Original post 
Pretty Boy and Bishōnen are very similar tropes. Both deal with male androgynous characters (skinny, cleanshaven, ect.) being treated as attractive. The main difference being, of course, that one is only found in Eastern media... right?

The wick check I did shows an estimate as follows:

  • 4% of Bishōnen examples and 7% of Pretty Boy examples are good examples with decent amounts of context showing that the character is androgynous, is considered attractive in-universe, and is an Eastern (in the case of Bishōnen) or Western (in the case of Pretty Boy) work.

  • 8% of Bishōnen examples (zces included) are on Western pages, while the same applies the other way.

  • 86% of Bishōnen examples and 64% of Pretty Boy examples are zero-context or vague potholes.

  • The remaining 2% of Bishōnen wicks and 21% of Pretty Boy wicks are various other forms of misuse (Fandom gushing and "A character gets called "Pretty Boy", respectively).

So, not only are Bishonen and Pretty Boy pretty much interchangable according to wiki editors, but it also seems that both tropes suffer from a lot of Zero-Context Example issues. If an obvious and functioning trope can be salvaged out of one of them, I can't see it. My only proposed option is to have them, and their redirects, redirect to A Pretty Boy Index, which houses all the relevant subtropes.

Wick Checks

    Bishonen checks (50/50) 

Correct usage: A boyish and slender attractive man, treated as such in the Eastern or Eastern-styled work he is from (3)

  • Fate/Grand Order - Sabers N to Z: He was famed for his beautiful face, to the point that entire armies on both sides would stop to gaze at it. To earn their respect as a warrior, he hides it behind a demonic mask, and it's even weaponized as his Noble Phantasm. (On a different example): He has a very lithe physique suiting his Bishōnen appearance [...]
  • Sekirei Participants Of Sekirei Plan: He's extremely pretty with an androgynous face, MUCH to Yukari's delight.
  • Jewelpet Happiness: Intentionally drawn as femininely attractive and with a lean figure.

Misuse: The character is from a Western work (6)

  • TwoKinds: Mystical White Hair: In both forms, though she's got a lot more hair in her wolf form. She inherits this from her father, who is a white wolf Keidran in his natural form and a white haired Bishōnen in his human form. (Under Raine's folder)
  • Nancy Drew: Sonny Joon, of all people, turns out to be this when you meet him for the first time in The Shattered Medallion.
  • HonorHarrington.Tropes A To F: Victor Cachat, repeatedly described as cute, and Jeremy X, who was literally genetically engineered to be one, to fit his intended role as a jester.
  • Fate: The Winx Saga: Pretty Boy: He quite resembles a real-life Bishōnen.
  • Northwest Smith: Yarol. This is apparently typical of people from Venus. (Slashed with Pretty Boy)
  • TakeThatScrappy.The DCU: One of the (many) controversial decisions made during the New 52 was Lobo being reintroduced as a slender, clean-shaven Bishōnen instead of the grungy, musclebound slob fans had come to know and love.

Misuse: The audience/Troper finds the character pretty (1)

Unclear (Zero-context, vague potholes) (63)

Other

    Pretty Boy checks (50/50) 

Correct usage: A boyish and slender attractive man, treated as such in the Western work he is from (4)

  • Gone: In the first book, he is described as being "pretty, like a girl". (Under Peter's heading in the Perdido Beach folder)
  • The Outsiders: Soda is often described by Ponyboy as looking like a movie star or a Greek God.
  • WorldOfWarcraft.Tropes M To R:
    • Blood Elves, such as Kael'thas Sunstrider (who wasn't quite so pretty the second time). And how! One of the silly lines for playable Blood Elves is "Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me?
    • Also applies to the High Elves, who are a separate political faction of the same race; what minor differences exist between the two are based on their different approaches to satisfying their magic addiction.
    • Lampshaded aboard one of the ships traversing the Great Sea. One of the female sailors complains that the male high elf first mate is prettier than her. (This and above bullet should be merged)

Misuse: The character is from an Eastern work (5)

Misuse: The audience/Troper finds the character pretty (4)

Misuse: Trope name used as a stock phrase (5)

  • Marvel Comics: Quicksilver: Depending on the art, Quicksilver is usually not a pretty boy except for X-Men Evolution cartoon. However, in one X-Factor issue, he was called 'Pretty Boy' by his inmates when he was put in prison for vagrancy. (Under Quicksilver's folder - seems kinda stock phrasey)
  • Characters/Quasar: Depending on the artist, the most prominent example is when Greg Capullo draws him in several issues of the solo series. In one issue, he was even called 'Pretty Boy' by a villain. (Also stock phrasey)
  • Trans Ponies: Tex isn't feminine but he's softer looking than Rainbow Dash and Big Macintosh. Rainbow outright calls him a "pretty boy" (Also stock phrasey)
  • Destiny Child: Ho Yay: The young master himself has mentioned that Frej is hot, as well as Rufus. He also refers to Tristan as a Pretty Boy.
  • Airlocked Round Two: He takes great offence when Kip calls him one, but it's true.

Unclear (Zero-context, vague potholes) (36)

Other (2)

Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 31st 2022 at 1:09:53 PM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#26: Mar 18th 2022 at 6:21:57 PM

[up]The phrase "pretty boy" doesn't have to be explicitly used. Characters in the work just have to comment on the Pretty Boy character's appearance.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
ClancyGardener life is a state of mind from 53 miles west of Venus Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
#27: Mar 19th 2022 at 7:00:43 PM

[up][up][up] I support.

This is my first time posting in a TRS thread, so I apologize if I'm not doing this right.

Trimming the hedges, one trope at a time.
Zabilac Since: Jul, 2012
#28: Mar 19th 2022 at 8:58:10 PM

[up][up] So the second one of what I asked about.

Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#29: Mar 28th 2022 at 7:42:43 AM

Added the Fan Speak tag to the page and moved the examples to Sandbox.Bishonen.

[up][up][up]What if the character's look is commented by the author instead of any in-universe characters? Kengan Ashura has a minor character who has no speaking line, so his looks isn't really remarked on by others, but according to the author's note in the character's additional bio, he's disproportionately popular among fans because of his good looks.

Edited by Adept on Mar 28th 2022 at 9:49:06 PM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#30: Mar 28th 2022 at 7:57:52 AM

I updated Bishōnen's indexing to match its Definition-Only Page status (adding it to the definition-only pages index and removing it from indexes like Pages Needing Example Context that no longer need a listing for it since it no longer allows examples).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 28th 2022 at 9:58:12 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Tomodachi Now a lurker. See you at the forums. Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
#31: Apr 1st 2022 at 1:44:19 PM

[up][up] I believe we should only judge the work for what is inside the work, and not whatever the author thinks.

To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
AmourLeFou You'll never find out who I am from Colorado Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: One Is The Loneliest Number
You'll never find out who I am
#32: Apr 19th 2022 at 12:37:30 PM

Does Prince Charming from the Shrek movies count?

Check out my forum game: Rate the above YMMV.
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#33: Apr 19th 2022 at 12:44:40 PM

[up]It's been quite a while since I've seen that movie, so I don't remember if characters comment on his appearance, but since Pretty Boy is In-Universe Examples Only, the pretty boy character's appearance has to be commented on by at least one other character (as I previously said, the literal phrase "pretty boy" doesn't have to be used in said comment).

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
AmourLeFou You'll never find out who I am from Colorado Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: One Is The Loneliest Number
You'll never find out who I am
#34: Apr 19th 2022 at 1:12:58 PM

[up] Then it doesn't need to be removed, since his appearance is commented on several times in the movies. However, the example on his character page needs to be rewritten since it doesn't explain how he's considered attractive by other characters. For reference:

  • Pretty Boy: Easily the prettiest male character in the series. Most likely invoked.

Check out my forum game: Rate the above YMMV.
Zabilac Since: Jul, 2012
#35: Apr 24th 2022 at 12:21:28 AM

Is the example on Hook's page from Once Upon a Time okay? It doesn't really provide an example except for the quote below, which comments on good looks In-Universe.

  • Pretty Boy: It's even lampshaded by Cora.
Cora: Your pretty face buys you a lot, but not my time. It's too valuable.

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#36: Apr 24th 2022 at 4:54:38 AM

No, an example needs more than just a quote to stand on its own. We still need surrounding context about how the character is portrayed in the work.

Macron's notes
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#37: Apr 24th 2022 at 5:44:11 AM

"It's even lampshaded", ignore the trope name, and consider that quotes are not examples, and what "it's" becomes a complete mystery.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#38: May 16th 2022 at 4:04:31 AM

I added a to-do list to the header and pinned it. The OP's original contents have been moved to a folder.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Dghcrh You can't escape this monster from Small country that looks like a fish Since: Dec, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
You can't escape this monster
#39: May 16th 2022 at 9:49:48 AM

The question is: do characters who are obviously drawn pretty and have a a lot of girls fawning after them, but don't explicitly comment on their appearance, count?

I'm mainly a fan of underrated media.
GoldenCityBird from the UK Since: Oct, 2018
#40: May 16th 2022 at 9:56:27 AM

Yes, as long as the "obvious" pretty design can be commented on by the example.

TRS Wick Cleaning
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#41: May 16th 2022 at 10:08:00 AM

[up][up]The character having girls fawning over him counts because it's still a character reaction regardless of whether the girls say anything.

And yes, the example should describe the character in addition to the reactions to his appearance.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 16th 2022 at 12:14:13 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#42: May 17th 2022 at 5:53:26 AM

By the way, has anyone made a wick cleaning sandbox to keep track of which namespaces have been cleaned? I can add it to the opening post if it exists.

Edit: I couldn't find one, so I made Sandbox.Bishonen Wick Cleaning (modeled after Sandbox.Meganekko Wick Cleaning) and added it to the opening post.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 17th 2022 at 8:09:22 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
#43: Jun 22nd 2022 at 9:52:36 AM

I did a few wicks and we're down to 100 with Biseinen.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jun 22nd 2022 at 12:52:44 PM

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Eievie Since: Feb, 2014
#46: Aug 10th 2022 at 12:33:05 PM

So Bishonen is just Pretty Boy but Anime?

Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#48: Aug 11th 2022 at 1:33:04 AM

[up][up]We've already decided to move examples of Bishōnen with in-universe acknowledgement to Pretty Boy, limit Pretty Boy to examples with in-universe acknowledgement (hence its In-Universe Examples Only status) and remove examples that don't fit that requirement, and leave Bishōnen as a Fan Speak Definition-Only Page since it was determined to be The Same, but More Specific to Pretty Boy when it was considered a trope instead of Fan Speak.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 11th 2022 at 3:33:31 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#49: Aug 16th 2022 at 7:07:56 AM

Lone video example has been moved.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#50: Aug 17th 2022 at 8:52:40 PM

So for the In-Universe acknowledgement, does it have to be explicitly stated that the character is attractive specifically due to his "prettiness", or just any acknowledgement that he is good-looking will do?

Trope Repair Shop: Bishounen and Pretty Boy
13th Mar '22 12:57:18 PM

Crown Description:

What should be done with Bishounen and Pretty Boy?

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