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Duplicate Trope: Bishonen

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    Original post 
Pretty Boy and Bishōnen are very similar tropes. Both deal with male androgynous characters (skinny, cleanshaven, ect.) being treated as attractive. The main difference being, of course, that one is only found in Eastern media... right?

The wick check I did shows an estimate as follows:

  • 4% of Bishōnen examples and 7% of Pretty Boy examples are good examples with decent amounts of context showing that the character is androgynous, is considered attractive in-universe, and is an Eastern (in the case of Bishōnen) or Western (in the case of Pretty Boy) work.

  • 8% of Bishōnen examples (zces included) are on Western pages, while the same applies the other way.

  • 86% of Bishōnen examples and 64% of Pretty Boy examples are zero-context or vague potholes.

  • The remaining 2% of Bishōnen wicks and 21% of Pretty Boy wicks are various other forms of misuse (Fandom gushing and "A character gets called "Pretty Boy", respectively).

So, not only are Bishonen and Pretty Boy pretty much interchangable according to wiki editors, but it also seems that both tropes suffer from a lot of Zero-Context Example issues. If an obvious and functioning trope can be salvaged out of one of them, I can't see it. My only proposed option is to have them, and their redirects, redirect to A Pretty Boy Index, which houses all the relevant subtropes.

Wick Checks

    Bishonen checks (50/50) 

Correct usage: A boyish and slender attractive man, treated as such in the Eastern or Eastern-styled work he is from (3)

  • Fate/Grand Order - Sabers N to Z: He was famed for his beautiful face, to the point that entire armies on both sides would stop to gaze at it. To earn their respect as a warrior, he hides it behind a demonic mask, and it's even weaponized as his Noble Phantasm. (On a different example): He has a very lithe physique suiting his Bishōnen appearance [...]
  • Sekirei Participants Of Sekirei Plan: He's extremely pretty with an androgynous face, MUCH to Yukari's delight.
  • Jewelpet Happiness: Intentionally drawn as femininely attractive and with a lean figure.

Misuse: The character is from a Western work (6)

  • TwoKinds: Mystical White Hair: In both forms, though she's got a lot more hair in her wolf form. She inherits this from her father, who is a white wolf Keidran in his natural form and a white haired Bishōnen in his human form. (Under Raine's folder)
  • Nancy Drew: Sonny Joon, of all people, turns out to be this when you meet him for the first time in The Shattered Medallion.
  • HonorHarrington.Tropes A To F: Victor Cachat, repeatedly described as cute, and Jeremy X, who was literally genetically engineered to be one, to fit his intended role as a jester.
  • Fate: The Winx Saga: Pretty Boy: He quite resembles a real-life Bishōnen.
  • Northwest Smith: Yarol. This is apparently typical of people from Venus. (Slashed with Pretty Boy)
  • TakeThatScrappy.The DCU: One of the (many) controversial decisions made during the New 52 was Lobo being reintroduced as a slender, clean-shaven Bishōnen instead of the grungy, musclebound slob fans had come to know and love.

Misuse: The audience/Troper finds the character pretty (1)

Unclear (Zero-context, vague potholes) (63)

Other

    Pretty Boy checks (50/50) 

Correct usage: A boyish and slender attractive man, treated as such in the Western work he is from (4)

  • Gone: In the first book, he is described as being "pretty, like a girl". (Under Peter's heading in the Perdido Beach folder)
  • The Outsiders: Soda is often described by Ponyboy as looking like a movie star or a Greek God.
  • WorldOfWarcraft.Tropes M To R:
    • Blood Elves, such as Kael'thas Sunstrider (who wasn't quite so pretty the second time). And how! One of the silly lines for playable Blood Elves is "Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me?
    • Also applies to the High Elves, who are a separate political faction of the same race; what minor differences exist between the two are based on their different approaches to satisfying their magic addiction.
    • Lampshaded aboard one of the ships traversing the Great Sea. One of the female sailors complains that the male high elf first mate is prettier than her. (This and above bullet should be merged)

Misuse: The character is from an Eastern work (5)

Misuse: The audience/Troper finds the character pretty (4)

Misuse: Trope name used as a stock phrase (5)

  • Marvel Comics: Quicksilver: Depending on the art, Quicksilver is usually not a pretty boy except for X-Men Evolution cartoon. However, in one X-Factor issue, he was called 'Pretty Boy' by his inmates when he was put in prison for vagrancy. (Under Quicksilver's folder - seems kinda stock phrasey)
  • Characters/Quasar: Depending on the artist, the most prominent example is when Greg Capullo draws him in several issues of the solo series. In one issue, he was even called 'Pretty Boy' by a villain. (Also stock phrasey)
  • Trans Ponies: Tex isn't feminine but he's softer looking than Rainbow Dash and Big Macintosh. Rainbow outright calls him a "pretty boy" (Also stock phrasey)
  • Destiny Child: Ho Yay: The young master himself has mentioned that Frej is hot, as well as Rufus. He also refers to Tristan as a Pretty Boy.
  • Airlocked Round Two: He takes great offence when Kip calls him one, but it's true.

Unclear (Zero-context, vague potholes) (36)

Other (2)

Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 31st 2022 at 1:09:53 PM

AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#76: Jul 13th 2023 at 5:18:29 AM

So wait, by In-Universe acknowledgement, do you mean the characters have to admit the character is attractive in-universe because of their Pretty Boy looks, or do they actually have to call him a pretty boy?

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#77: Jul 13th 2023 at 6:27:43 AM

[up]Descriptions are enough, and I don't think the character making the comment personally finding the Pretty Boy's traits attractive is as important as the comment on his appearance. I don't think it would be impossible for someone to unfavorably compare a Pretty Boy to a Manly Man because they find the latter more attractive (though I haven't checked if there are any examples like this, especially because the Manly Man page only being made this year means wicks are less likely to appear in the text for Bishōnen or Pretty Boy examples.).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 13th 2023 at 8:35:17 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#78: Jul 13th 2023 at 10:40:35 AM

[up]yeah there are plenty of examples of male characters using Pretty Boy as a derogatory term for other guys to imply that they're not tough enough / manly enough to do whatever they're about to do and shouldn't be considered a threat. I know Mars (1996) has a scene like that for its main character.

Edited by amathieu13 on Jul 13th 2023 at 1:41:31 PM

AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#79: Jul 14th 2023 at 2:04:00 AM

It appears that the sandbox only tracked Bishonen but Bishounen

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#81: Jul 27th 2023 at 9:16:05 PM

So…do we just leave the Main/ namespace completely alone?

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#82: Jul 27th 2023 at 9:28:33 PM

I think that's fine. The only think to check is to make sure people aren't using Bishounen to refer to characters from non-Japanese/East Asian works.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jul 27th 2023 at 12:40:02 PM

Macron's notes
AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#83: Jul 27th 2023 at 9:30:32 PM

[up]Well, I think I can do that for the Double-Check.

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#84: Aug 2nd 2023 at 8:05:53 AM

Completed A - N of the Characters/, so basically I'm about halfway done through that namespace. If anyone has time, I could get an extra pair help clean this up a little faster.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Aug 2nd 2023 at 11:06:52 PM

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#85: Sep 2nd 2023 at 3:37:54 AM

Characters/ is done though I might do a quick double check later on


For this clean up do I just have to clean up the wicks for Bishōnen so that the thread can close? Or do I need to cleanup Pretty Boy too? The wick checks were joint after all.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Sep 2nd 2023 at 6:38:39 PM

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
Ayumi-chan low-poly Shinri from Calvard (Apprentice) Relationship Status: Serial head-patter
low-poly Shinri
#86: Sep 5th 2023 at 5:14:37 PM

Just a question; If Bishonen is potholed in a sentence like below, is it ok? Cause I removed them a couple times when helping with the dewicking:

Miyabi is known for her soft, Bishōnen art style.

[down][tup]

Edited by Ayumi-chan on Sep 5th 2023 at 8:59:56 PM

She/Her | Currently cleaning N/A
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#87: Sep 5th 2023 at 5:58:30 PM

Yes, Fan Speak definitions typically allow potholes. You just can't make a dedicated entry for them.

Siegfried1337 Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard from the Ashes Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
#88: Sep 18th 2023 at 10:11:21 PM

Could the post be updated? I did some of the wick checks for Bishonen and edited them.

MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#89: Dec 16th 2023 at 3:31:32 PM

Cleaned namespaces A/ to O/ for Bishonen

Haven't touched the redirect yet.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Dec 16th 2023 at 7:59:02 PM

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#90: Dec 17th 2023 at 7:49:27 PM

Bishonen has been cleaned

Now I just need to handle the redirect and this thread can close.

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
AbsoluteRainbow Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds from Hanoi, Vietnam Since: Jul, 2023
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
#91: Dec 17th 2023 at 7:54:08 PM

So, should we rename Pretty Boy? What about Pretty Male?

When the redirect is done, we can close the thread and decide whether to rename.

Absolute Rainbow
jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
AbsoluteRainbow Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds from Hanoi, Vietnam Since: Jul, 2023
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#94: Dec 17th 2023 at 8:00:01 PM

Er... that's not really the order of events.

  • You need to decide that a rename is valid.
  • Then you go through the process.
  • Then you change wicks.
  • Then you close.

And this is all assuming there's any point to a rename in the first place.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
AbsoluteRainbow Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds from Hanoi, Vietnam Since: Jul, 2023
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
#95: Dec 17th 2023 at 8:03:52 PM

[up] Let's see... we basically merge Bishounen examples with Pretty Boy, which were currently doing right now with redirects. We unite the two with Pretty Male, but... we must decide first before finishing the wicks?

Absolute Rainbow
jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#96: Dec 17th 2023 at 8:06:00 PM

[up][up][up] ...Pretty Boy is one letter shorter than Pretty Male, and the former sounds far better than the latter. You could make the argument that "boy" is used to describe younger men, but I very highly doubt that ever leads to any confusion over the definition,

Edited by jandn2014 on Dec 17th 2023 at 11:06:54 AM

back lol
AbsoluteRainbow Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds from Hanoi, Vietnam Since: Jul, 2023
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
#97: Dec 17th 2023 at 8:10:02 PM

[up] What if an example is a man, who's way more than twenties? (Not to be confused with the The Roaring '20s or The New '20s) He cannot qualify for being a teen(ager) or 20s.

Then again, while Pretty Male sounds way worse, I just wanted to make the trope have a broader range in sight while still being Clear, Concise, Witty. ~Tropers/jandn2014, one specific confusion can be enough to raise confusion. In this case, this is a case of age confusion, so of course I have to make the argument. Besides, it's not like it's easy to rename a true anyways.

Edited by AbsoluteRainbow on Dec 17th 2023 at 11:12:55 PM

Absolute Rainbow
AudioSpeaks2 He/Him (Greenhorn) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
He/Him
#98: Dec 17th 2023 at 8:12:33 PM

[up] Tropes Are Flexible

We just call it Pretty Boy because it usually applies to younger male characters, but that doesn't mean older men can't qualify.

Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Dec 18th 2023 at 12:12:46 AM

Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#99: Dec 17th 2023 at 8:12:42 PM

Like I said, even though you could argue "boy" is used mainly for younger men, I very, very highly doubt that said is causing anyone to think the definition is more narrow than it is (and to be fair, a majority of the examples probably are younger men regardless). You'll need to do a wick check if you want to prove there's confusion over the definition.

back lol
AbsoluteRainbow Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds from Hanoi, Vietnam Since: Jul, 2023
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
#100: Dec 17th 2023 at 8:16:19 PM

[up][up] Just because Tropes Are Flexible doesn't mean there can't be confusion. I just like to be more Clear, Concise, Witty.

[up] What about examples that are Really 700 Years Old? I'm gonna check anyways.

Absolute Rainbow

Trope Repair Shop: Bishounen and Pretty Boy
13th Mar '22 12:57:18 PM

Crown Description:

What should be done with Bishounen and Pretty Boy?

Total posts: 112
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