the Retromancer
#77: Jan 24th 2023 at 11:24:30 PM
All four are regarded to be the same as they are in their series by the time of airing. But regarding the within spin-off context,
All pairs: Compares respective basic story premise. So the entire thing can be cut.
The spin-off does put a direct pair between Subaru and Kazuma (see Dramatic Irony and Green-Eyed Monster examples), but on top of my head I don't recall anyone be put into direct contrasting comparison, which was one of my main issues with this Massive Multiplayer Crossover.
In general, Odd Friendship does a better job at explaining the Foils than the Foil examples.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
KaabiiFan13
Since: Apr, 2022
#78: Jan 24th 2023 at 11:26:04 PM
What about my previous post?
Edit: I mean my post before my previous post?
Edited by KaabiiFan13 on Jan 24th 2023 at 11:28:05 AM
sgamer82
Since: Jan, 2001
#79: Jan 25th 2023 at 10:03:29 AM
To clarify, are you saying Subaru and Kazuma are the only legitimate entry in that whole set? It sounds like you're saying it is, but it's better explained in other examples in the page? Possibly still making the Foil entry invalid, as it still primarily compares the shows' respective basic story premises.
It sounds otherwise like we can cut the whole thing besides Vanir and Demiurge (since that marks a specific episode as a comparison point)
Edited by sgamer82 on Jan 25th 2023 at 10:06:40 AM
the Retromancer
#80: Jan 25th 2023 at 10:06:46 AM
I'm saying to scrap the whole set. Those two are an example, but not in a way the current entry says.
May keep off Vanir and Demiurge for now because I don't remember if they were actually compared or not.
Edited by Amonimus on Jan 25th 2023 at 9:21:55 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
sgamer82
Since: Jan, 2001
#81: Jan 25th 2023 at 10:21:17 AM
Very least it's the only one making a comparison within Isekai Quartet itself. I'll clear it out with a link to this thread.
KaabiiFan13
Since: Apr, 2022
#82: Jan 25th 2023 at 12:08:24 PM
This thread reminds me of an entry I found in Fridge.Monsters University, which describes Dean Hardscrabble as a "foil" to Waternoose from the original. While I understand how the two constrast each other, they never had any interaction to show that constrast, and it would be more fitting to call them ContrastingSequelAntagonists at best (though Hardscrabble was more of an Anti-Villain if I recall). What do you guys think?
mightymewtron
Angry babby
from New New York
Since: Oct, 2012
Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#83: Feb 18th 2023 at 12:37:31 AM
Contrasting Sequel Antagonist feels much more accurate, as they're never contrasted at all in the actual narrative (Waternoose only has a tiny cameo near the end IIRC).
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Wyldchyld
(Old as dirt)
#84: Feb 24th 2023 at 5:38:06 AM
There seems to be a massive amount of Foil misuse going on here with Red vs. Blue. I've put it in a folder because of its length.
Warning: Long
- Red vs. Blue:
- The titular Reds and Blues of Blood Gulch (also known as "The Blood Gulch Crew") are this to the Agents of Project Freelancer. Whereas the Freelancers were the best of the best, battle hardened soldiers, and some of the most elite fighters in the UNSC, the Blood Gulch Crew were low level recruits selected to just help the Freelancers test their equipment. The Freelancers were trained to work as a unit, and have each others backs, whereas the Reds and Blues were specifically created to be at odds with one another. However, at the end of the day, the Freelancers succumbed to infighting and corruption, with many of their number turning and even killing one another for personal gain, whereas the Blood Gulch Crew have managed to overcome their animosity, putting aside their differences for a common goal, and doing good on almost a galactic scale. While there is a narrative comparison between the Reds and Blues and the Freelancers (which boils down to team-work — the Reds and Blues have each other's backs and work together; the Freelancers may have the talent and training, but they were actively encouraged to see each other as rivals, and it gets lampshaded in a few places). However, the Reds and Blues never meet most of the Freelancers. However, they do have run-ins with some of them, and do come out on top because of the team-work element. The two Freelancers they adopt (Washington and Carolina) both learn to become better team-players — and how to have friends — after joining them. I think this can be rewritten to point out that the reason the Reds and Blues come out on top whenever they're dealing with Freelancer enemies is because they've learned how important team-work and trust is, whereas the Freelancers didn't. Without the rewrite, there's no sign the two groups ever interacted. Suggestion: Rewrite.
- Grif and Simmons are this to each other. Simmons is a insecure suck-up who is constantly working, thrives on rigid organization, and takes great pains to appear to be a genius when he really isn't as smart as he likes to think he is. In contrast, Grif is a Lazy Bum who constantly avoids work, has no respect for authority, and is implied to be considerably smarter than he lets on. I think this example is more accurately All Work vs. All Play.
- Caboose is also Donut's Foil. Both are easily the friendliest, dumbest, and silliest members of their respective teams. Caboose and Donut also both use (relatively) archaic weapons for the setting (Caboose has a standard assault rifle and Donut uses (plasma) grenades), and wear colored armor that makes them stick easily out from the rest of their teams (Donut wears bright pink armor, and Caboose has both dark blue armor and a MJOLNIR Mark V helmet). It certainly helps that both are surprisingly good friends with each other even going into the later seasons, and have goofy-sounding last names. However, they differ in that Donut is more emphasized to be absurdly naive rather than almost completely divorced from reality like Caboose is. Furthermore, Donut is highly "sexualized" (for lack of a better term), with almost all of his dialogue being Double Entendres while Caboose is more like a little kid (to the point where he doesn't know where babies come from in Season 5). This seems to be an audience created foil. The traits certainly exist, and they are friends, but the show has never portrayed them as foils to each other. Suggestion: Remove.
- Sarge is this for Church during the events of The Blood Gulch Chronicles. The two of them seem to be the only soldiers that want to actually win against the other team, are verbally (and often even physically) abusive towards their subordinates (though they do genuinely care for them deep down), and have some troubling anger issues. However, while Sarge blindly hates anything associated with the Blues, Church hates the Reds, his own allies, and everyone else for much more personal and intimate reasons. Again, audience created foils. There's nothing about this entry's comparison of the pair that's wrong. The problem is that there's no narrative attempt to create foils out of them. However, there is a narrative attempt to create foils between Sarge and Washington, when Wash first joins the Blues and becomes their team leader. The narrative comparison results in Simmons (usually Sarge's yes-man) deciding to move in with the blues because Tucker bitching to Simmons about Wash's strict routine is right up Simmons' street, who has been trying for years to get the same sort of routine going in the Red, but Sarge is too much of a loose cannon. It's basically a double-foil: that Tucker and Simmons initially seem to be under the wrong leader for their personalities, but in reality are not.
- Tucker is the only one that escapes, but an episode of The Blood Gulch Chronicles still has Grif giving him a parallel in the Reds: This is basically a visional irony trope. I'd say it's "Not So Different" Remark, but it's the camera doing the "remarking", does that count?
Which one is Caboose again? I get confused. Is he the stupid mean one (Church, while the camera shows Sarge), the stupid annoying one (Tucker, camera pans to Simmons), or the stupid stupid one (Caboose, camera pans to Donut)?- Freelancer Agents York and Wyoming. They are both Deadpan Snarkers with some of the healthiest relationships with their A.I.s, and they both have a friendly exterior. However, York is a close range genuinely Nice Guy who prefers to do things himself, while Wyoming's a long range Faux Affably Evil Jerkass who has a tendency to trick others into doing his work. York's disdain of Wyoming is made clear more than once, and Wyoming would end up killing York. I think this might be Opposing Combat Philosophies.
- After both The Project Freelancer Saga and the Blood Gulch Chronicles Prequel Trilogy episodes in Season 14, it's revealed that Captain Butch Flowers/Agent Florida is this for Sarge. Unlike the abrasive and hard-nosed Red Team Leader, Captain Flowers is a more passive, gentler sort. And just as Character Development gradually turned Sarge into a Jerk with a Heart of Gold, the more is learned of Flowers, the more is learned that his gentility was just a mask for the terrifying Manipulative Bastard he really is. Audience created link. There's no narrative foil trope in play for these two. Suggestion: Remove.
- In The Chorus Trilogy, we have Felix and Locus, two mercenaries on different sides of the war and former comrades, the former a friendly and talkative Jerk with a Heart of Gold, the latter a stoic and emotionless killer. ...Or so it seems on the surface. In reality, Felix is a sadistic Manipulative Bastard, who puts on a phony friendly appearance, while Locus is actually a very conflicted man that puts on the mask of an emotionless killer to avoid having to face his guilt over the many atrocities he took part in both during and after the Human-Covenant War. Also, while Locus prefers to be quick and efficient with his kills, Felix enjoys toying with his victims. These two fall into a couple of categories: Straight Man and Wise Guy, Talker and Doer (lampshaded by both characters), Red Oni, Blue Oni. Perhaps it is best to wrap them into the full Foil trope, but I'm not sure.
- Felix is also this towards Tucker. Both of them initially are only fighting in the war for personal gain, as Felix wants to be paid and Tucker just wants to find his friends and leave. They are both cynical and sarcastic, and the two of them are arguably the most skilled members of the New Republic. However, towards the end of Season 12, Felix is still fighting for his own gain, disregarding the lives of the inhabitants on Chorus and enjoying the violence. Tucker however, grows to care a great deal about the people on Chorus, to the point where he selflessly risks his own life to save them. Tucker is also shown to dislike violence and war, only getting his hands dirty when he has to and preferring to knock out or capture his opponents. Meanwhile, Felix is a Sadist who takes joy in killing innocent people. Tucker also values his friends and teammates among the Blood Gulch Crew, whereas Felix merely manipulated them for his own interests. I'm not sure about this one. They're certainly pitted against each other, but I feel it's probably more of a Not So Similar way, as Tucker initially is taken in by Felix until he learns the truth. There's nothing inherently wrong about what this entry says, however.
- Felix is also this to Agent Washington to an extent, as they both began a trilogy as new allies to the Reds and Blues (though Felix was just manipulating them), but turn on them around the end of the second part. The difference is, Wash eventually redeemed himself and solidified his status as one of their True Companions by the end of the trilogy's final act, whereas Felix remained an enemy till the moment he died. This is audience-derived. The narrative foil storyline is between Locus and Wash. Wash is naturally suspicious of Felix, but is pretty forced to go along with him initially due to them being attacked (arranged by Felix), since Wash is then captured by Locus' team, his storyline is with Locus, not Felix. Tucker is the one who has the Felix storyline, as mentioned just above.
- Locus is also this to Agent Washington, as they're both talented professional soldiers, who had to do some really bad things in the line of duty, but the difference is, Wash is trying to be a better person, while Locus has actively chosen to become a cold-hearted killer. Locus's confusion as to why Wash didn't become just like him, is also what sets him on the road to redemption. This is an example, it's driven by a Worthy Opponent deconstruction because Locus views Wash as a WO until realises that Wash has "gone soft" (ie, is more compassionate and empathic than the trauma-scarred person he used to be). He is so upset that Wash has "disappointed" his WO bar (in weird Broken Pedestal way) that he becomes hell-bent on killing Wash for it. Coming to terms with the fact that Wash needed to change triggers the start of his own path to change.
- The Chorus Trilogy also gives us Generals Vanessa Kimball and Donald Doyle of the New Republic and the Federal Army of Chorus respectively, who were both forced to step up after multiple other leaders were killed. The former is a brave and competent leader in charge of an undisciplined ragtag army, while the latter is an incompetent coward in charge of a (relatively speaking) professional army. At the end of the day, though, they are both Reasonable Authority Figures who just want what's best for their planet. This one is fine. Suggestion: Keep
- Again from The Chorus Trilogy, we have Doctor Emily Grey, who could be seen as both this and a Distaff Counterpart to Medical Officer Frank "Doc" DuFresne, as they are both cheerful medical officers garbed in purple with a few screws loose that tags along with the Reds and Blues after initially being from an outside party. But unlike Doc, who is utterly incompetent at his job and pacifistic to the point of refusing to make gunshot sounds (well, at least till O'Malley got a hold of him), Grey is both an incredibly confident Mad Doctor and a Torture Technician. I'm not sure she's a Distaff Counterpart to Doc because she doesn't have the same tropes, she has opposite tropes: so, he's laid-back, incompetent and easy-going, whereas she's madly energetic, frighteningly competent, and psycho. So, there's definitely some kind of foil going on.
- Agent Carolina and Sharkface. They fought each other during the war between Project Freelancer and the Insurrection (really Charon Industries), who both saw their teams as a sort of surrogate family, only to lose them and go on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge in response. The difference is, Carolina learned to let go of the past and move on, eventually finding a new surrogate family, while Sharkface let his lust for revenge consume him completely and refused Carolina's offer of a Last-Second Chance leading to him being unceremoniously gunned down by Kimball and Wash after declaring he'll never stop coming after them. This is a case of characters in similar situation take opposite paths in life. There's definitely a For Want Of A Nail element going on. But I don't know where this one really sits.
- Agent Carolina and her A.I. partner Church/Epsilon are this to the Meta. The former two are a team who genuinely care about and want to protect each other, while the Meta is the result of the A.I. Sigma turning its human host (Agent Maine) into an Empty Shell of his former self, so Sigma could use him as part of his plan to "become human." There's no narrative comparison between Meta and Sigma and Carolina and Church. This is audience created.
- Mark Temple, The Leader of the Blues and Reds in Season 15, is this for several different characters. Shoehorning Temple into comparisons with multiple characters is clearly a sign that most of them are wrong. He is Church's analogue.
- Many of his traits are directly the opposite of Church. While Church is a short-tempered asshole who is constantly annoyed by his team, he does actually care for them. Temple, on the other hand, acts calm and polite, but it's clear from the way he threatens Loco that he sees his team as expendable. And unlike Church, who learned to let go of his desire for revenge against Project Freelancer, Temple never did. He is the Evil Counterpart to Church, right down to his name. That's his role. However, he and Church never actually meet, although the narrative makes the comparison clear.
- He's also this to present-day Carolina. Like Church, she learned to not let revenge overtake her, and even spared the man she wanted revenge on. Temple is completely consumed by revenge, and is now committing horrific acts with no remorse. Carolina also started off hating the Reds and Blues, but grew to appreciate them as friends and a surrogate family. Temple started off on good terms with the Blues and Reds (his childhood friend was on the Red side after all), but he has become so obsessed with revenge that his quest for vengeance is more important to him then his team. He has an It's Personal motive for going after Carolina, but they're not foils. Suggestion: Remove.
- Strange as it may sound, Caboose. Both have lost a friend they cared for, but while Temple accepted his friend is dead but seeks terrible vengeance, Caboose refused to believe Church is dead and would never commit the crimes that Temple did. When Caboose finally realized Church is gone for good, he only regrets he Never Got to Say Goodbye or thanked Church for being his friend. Temple killed Loco just as Caboose has previously killed Church, but while Caboose is genuinely upset whenever Church is gone, Temple can only mutter in frustration about what an idiot Loco was. This is audience-created. Being able to let go is part of Church's storyline, too, so there's no narrative need to compare Temple and Caboose, and the narrative doesn't. Suggestion: Remove
- During The Shisno Paradox and Singularity, Genkins of the Cosmic Powers is this for Felix. They're both manipulators whose true nature is a major twist, and both are vile Sadists with dark senses of humor. However, Felix's humor is largely deadpan and dependent on snark, whereas Genkins is an over the top Large Ham whose humor is largely based around his Troll-like behavior. Additionally, while Felix was just a minion for Hargrove, Genkins starts off as a minion but ends up being the Dragon Ascendant for his related story arc. Felix and Genkins never meet. Felix is dead by the time this arc begins. It's an audience created comparison. Suggestion: Remove
Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 24th 2023 at 1:38:46 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Twiddler
(On A Trope Odyssey)
#85: Feb 24th 2023 at 2:44:38 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
thoughts on those
- Reds and Blue vs Freelancers: agree, rewrite
- Grif vs Simmons: not sure
- Caboose vs Donut: there's Grif's "the stupid stupid one" comment linking them together in Two for One
. Mirror Character might be more fitting.
- Sarge vs Church: not sure
- Tucker vs Simmons: Mirror Character might be more fitting.
- York vs Wyoming: not sure
- Flowers vs Sarge: Hmmm. I'd say it's deliberate that Flowers is set up as a contrasting personality to the other team leaders we see (Church and Sarge), and at the time he was active, Sarge would have been the opposing team leader.
- Felix vs Locus: I agree that they can be summed up by the Foil supertrope. besides the subtropes you've pointed out, they are also designed to contrast visually (orange vs green)
- Felix vs Tucker: also, Felix becomes a key-wielder like Tucker and they briefly face off against each other with their keys. maybe Evil Counterpart and/or Mirror Character as well?
- Felix vs Wash: agree, not an example
- Locus vs Wash: they're definitely set up as counterparts. maybe Mirror Character would be more fitting, or maybe it's both that and Foil
- Kimball vs Doyle: agree, keep
- Grey vs Doc: not sure
- Carolina vs Sharkface: Mirror Character might be more fitting.
- Carolina and Epsilon vs the Meta: they're contrasted in Red Vs Blue S 14 E 13 Meta Vs Carolina Dawn Of Awesome
- Temple vs Church: yes
- Temple vs Carolina: agree, not an example
- Temple vs Caboose: Caboose has a storyline about learning to let go during the season in which Temple appears, and Temple directly confronts him over it, so if Temple had something similar that'd be a case for them as counterparts. however, he doesn't
- Genkins vs Felix: agree, not an example
Edited by Twiddler on Feb 24th 2023 at 2:46:36 AM
Wyldchyld
(Old as dirt)
#86: Jul 15th 2023 at 7:47:22 AM
I've removed the following from Characters.RWBY The Heroes because the work heads more in the direction of Yang and Sun being similar rather than different, with it being lampshaded in V4, when Sun bluntly tells Blake that if Yang was there instead of him, she'd be telling Blake the exact same things Sun's been telling her.
In the early volumes, when Blake is going through something and pushing people away, Yang steps in with the sage advice that results in Blake going to the dance with Sun (she and Yang have the first dance, but it's very much about Yang giving way for Sun). In Volumes 4-5, when Blake is going through and something even bigger and pushing everyone away, it's Sun who steps in, and he returns her to her team at the end of it, he's the one who makes it clear that she doesn't need him anymore, it's her team that will help her the rest of the way; with him telling his team-mate Neptune that helping Blake wasn't about romance, it's very much Sun stepping aside that kicks the Blake/Yang romance into high gear. So, in the first five volumes, Yang and Sun have played similar supporting roles for Blake during a time of crisis for her (the stakes are different, but the role is the same). However, aside from Sun's lampshade in Volume 4, the show doesn't really pursue direct Yang/Sun comparisons. Blake and Sun are designed to be foils and so are Blake and Yang, with Sun and Yang playing very similar roles (the sun/light/fire to Blake's shadow). While Blake and Yang are currently foil-troped as Red Oni, Blue Oni and Blake and Sun as Hair-Contrast Duo, both pairs could legitimately be troped as both for overlapping reasons.
Despite all that, the interactions required by Foil do not exist for Yang and Sun, and the only direct comparisons made are about similarities, not differences. The fact they play similar roles for Blake does invite the audience to compare them for the purpposes of contrast, and the competing ships exacerbate that, but the work itself leads more towards similarities than differences. The entry below is really pushing the contrasts in a very audience reaction kind of way.
My question is this. Based on the above information, is there a valid trope out there that could capture Yang and Sun comparisons? I was wondering about Mirror Character, where what differences do exist between the two serve more to highlight the similar roles they play for Blake during her crisis periods, and how both those roles end up being positively contrasted to the detrimental impact Blake's Psycho Ex-Boyfriend has had on her.
- Foil: To Yang. Both serve as potential Love Interests to Blake during the early volumes, and outwardly appear to be simple and straightforward nice physical bruisers. This is where the similarities end however:
- Yang gives the initial impression being a fun-loving Biker Babe, but the story has only revealed more and more her deep abandonment issues and her temper, the former of which causes her to bear the pain and focusing her energy on helping others, even at the expense of herself. It's tempered by Yang also being a far more responsible, mature and smarter young woman than people give her credit for, being the only one who recognized Blake's emotional state and offering a real solution to it instead of the awkward uncertainty of the rest of her team. As such, she and Blake end up synchronizing exceptionally well in fights. While she and Blake do suffer a rift between Volumes 4 - 6, it's ultimately born out of the two of them trying to protect each other in a way that related to their personal trauma, and they ultimately are willing to make the effort to fix the problem without prompting.
- Sun by contrast is genuinely a simple and straightforward young man who also does have issues related to his past, but he approaches it by trying to repeatedly avoid the issue. As a result, while he is much nicer on the surface, he frequently tends to miss the emotional problems of others, which causes no shortage of friction because of his emotional insensitivity until he eventually understands what's going on. Despite being someone who does help Blake out after she flees Adam Taurus to keep her team (Yang especially) safe, the above causes him to be constantly out of sync with Blake as a combat partner and friend, frequently getting in each other's way as well as utterly misunderstanding her emotional state and accidentally stepping on her Trauma Button until the end of Volume 4.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jul 15th 2023 at 3:58:07 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
ElRise
I fix my examples all the time
from The Dying City
(Season 2)
Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
I fix my examples all the time
#87: Aug 18th 2023 at 8:16:15 PM
Found this in Characters.Sonic Prime.
- Foil: (Chaos Sonic) To Rusty Rose. Instead of being one of Sonic's friends transformed into the Chaos Council's enforcer, Chaos Sonic is a robot designed to emulate his counterpart. While Rusty was a No-Nonsense Nemesis, Chaos Sonic is a Troll who spends more time playing with his food than finishing Sonic, which ends up being his undoing. Also, while Rusty was a general purpose chief enforcer, Chaos Sonic was created with the sole, specific objective of killing Sonic.
low-poly Shinri
#88: Aug 18th 2023 at 8:23:10 PM
Found this on Characters.Trails Series Crow Armbrust
- Foil: To Elie MacDowell, he's the grandchild of a mayor whose city-state got taken over due to Erebonia's expansionist policies. Both lost family members due to these politics, with Crow's grandfather dying of despair after being betrayed by his allies and Elie's parents divorcing after her father was in despair over his inability to change Crossbell's corruption. While both oppose Osborne, Elie doesn't resort to the same extremes as Crow and the ILF.
I should mention that Crow and Elie never interacted (not counting victory quotes in Reverie and any possible interactions there) so it doesn’t count. Any other opinions?
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/A
ElRise
I fix my examples all the time
from The Dying City
(Season 2)
Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
I fix my examples all the time
#89: Aug 18th 2023 at 11:43:07 PM
Agreed with the reason you stated.
#90: Sep 1st 2023 at 9:28:18 AM
From Mission: Impossible - The Syndicate:
- Foil: To Kurt Hendricks; both are interested in upsetting the world order violently, but while Kurt went insane from constantly analyzing nuclear war scenarios and wanted to use a nuclear conflict to better humanity, Solomon's intentions were driven by revenge against the system he served and ultimately a fanatical desire for revenge against Ethan. Solomon's desire to detonate nuclear weapons is driven by immeasurable hatred rather than depressed despair, and he hopes to perish in the senseless mayhem he instigates in MI 6. But in contrast to Kurt, he gets Laser-Guided Karma and survives multiple movies to be taken to an unpleasant prison.
- His traits are similar to that of Owen Davian in Fallout, as both villains are intelligent, powerful, criminal sociopaths that faced Ethan in a personal way by killing a woman in front of him, and are surprisingly formidable in an actual fistfight. What makes him a foil is how Davian was partnered with a Rogue Agent of the US government, while the entire Syndicate is a rogue secret British Intelligence project. Also, Davian does it for money, while Lane says he's trying to shape the world. Ethan thinks he really just likes hurting people.
Cut and moved to Contrasting Sequel Antagonist
Edited by randomtroper89 on Sep 1st 2023 at 11:29:00 AM
mightymewtron
Angry babby
from New New York
Since: Oct, 2012
Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#91: Jan 16th 2024 at 11:22:59 PM
Foil.Bo Jack Horseman has some legit examples, and some examples from characters that don't really interact but are directly contrasted in the narrative. Where do they go?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
from The Void
(Troper Knight)
Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#92: Jan 16th 2024 at 11:29:15 PM
We don't really have a spot for those right now.
Worth noting that it's come up in a semi-recent discussion that the whole "must interact" clause was a unilateral addition. We may have been artificially restricting this trope for years.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
ElRise
I fix my examples all the time
from The Dying City
(Season 2)
Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
I fix my examples all the time
#94: Mar 4th 2024 at 7:41:40 PM
Some big paragraphs from Dragon Age – Sera
I've already cut two other character comparisons because they didn't interact, but what about the rest of them? CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
If they don't intereact that's an easy misuse cut.
Some big paragraphs from Dragon Age – Sera
Foil
- Foil:
- To Solas, the other elven party member who is very critical of and tries to distance himself from other elves, especially the Dalish, yet can romance a female Lavellan. However, while Solas at high approval is very polite reverent, Sera is very blunt and carefree. At low approval, Solas tends towards more Passive Aggressive Combat, while Sera is much more overtly rude. And while Solas loves ancient elven history and lore, Sera thinks it's all a waste of time, preferring to live for today over dwelling on yesterday. Both care deeply for the downtrodden and hold antipathy for abusive authority, however. By Trespasser, Solas intends to help modern elves by leading his own elven spy network to restore ancient Elvhenan at any cost, including potentially the rest of the races, while Sera decides to help general "common folk" by using the Red Jennies to serve the (Andrastian human) Divine.
- To Vivienne, the other female Optional Party Member who approaches the Inquisitor during their first visit to Val Royeaux. While Sera is a Lower-Class Lout and Satisfied Street Rat, Vivienne is a Wicked Cultured Lady of War who likes Kicking Ass in All Her Finery. Both believe Circles should remain to protect the common folk, though they also have personal reasons: Sera because she's very uncomfortable with magic, Vivienne because the Circles are what give her power. They're also most outspoken for restoring the world the way it was for personal benefit: Vivienne because playing the Circle hierarchy and Orlais' Decadent Court gives her political power. While Sera despises selfish nobles, she nevertheless wants to restore society's nice, familiar little categories because it allows her to be a Wild Card and Karmic Thief. At least before Sera's Character Development in Trespasser.
- To Varric, another golden haired archer companion with his own contacts and spy network, and is not a typical dwarf the way Sera is not a typical elf. They both love the city, dislike nature, and revere the principles of Andrasteism even if they don't respect its institutions, and uses their contacts to help Lavellan track down survivors of Clan Lavellan in Trespasser. However, while Varric is a noble who slums with commoners and has organized contacts who obey his orders, Sera is a proud commoner who refuses to plan ahead or try to coordinate with the Jennies because she finds it to be "thinking like a noble." At least until Trespasser. Sera also doesn't name her bows and is put off by what a complex contraption Bianca is.
- To Briala, another lesbian city elven archer who's part of a vast spy network that aims to help the downtrodden. However, while Sera and the Red Jennies are Terrorists Without a Cause whose goal is to "stick it to nobles that abuse commoners, and that's it," Briala and her elven spy network plan to raise the elves of Orlais up through political reform. And while Sera believes in helping the common folk generally and often disapproves of helping elves specifically (though there are certain cases where helping city elves in the Hinterlands will net you approval—though only if you ignore them being elven and treat them as just another general commoner), Briala intends to help elves specifically.
- To Dorian. Dorian is a noble, a mage, highly intelligent and extremely eloquent, whereas Sera is a commoner, a Badass Normal, not terribly well-educated and is fond of Buffy Speak. Sera is a Satisfied Street Rat where Dorian is a Defector from Decadence. Both hate their heritage, but Dorian hates Tevinter's legitimate flaws, rather than Sera's vague distaste for "elfy" elves.
I've already cut two other character comparisons because they didn't interact, but what about the rest of them? CSP Cleanup Thread | All that I ask for ... is diamonds and dance floors
low-poly Shinri
#95: Mar 27th 2024 at 6:31:49 PM
Found this on Characters.Trails Series Erebonia Thors Class VII Original Part Two
- Foil: Obviously to Rean. Both are leaders of a group with Rean leading Class VII and Crow leading the ILF, both of their primary elements are time, and both of them aren't raised by their biological parents. Rean only uses a tachi while Crow utilizes a lot of different weaponry from dual wielding guns to his double-bladed saber, Rean is right-handed while Crow is ambidextrous who mostly wields his melee weapon on his left hand, and their secondary orbments are polar opposites with Rean's fire to Crow's water.
This is more about surface level stuff rather than personality stuff, with the differing elements being the valid bit. Plus the trope isn't properly linked. Any thoughts?
She/Her | Currently cleaning N/A
Total posts: 95
While looking at
an Ask The Tropers about Isekai Quartet I noticed its entry for Foil
At least two issues jump out at me. The first, as implied by the folder title, is its sheer size, as if determined to compare every single combination of characters possible. The second is a lot of the entries seem more focused on comparing the versions of the characters from their series of origin, rather than their selves in this series. As a result there's probably a lot that can be cut outright, but given the sheer size issue and my own lack of familiarity with the series, I'm thinking this is not something to do unilaterally.
Edited by sgamer82 on Jan 24th 2023 at 6:55:17 AM