Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Ahk-Ton, Kargarh, Crimson Witch and Destroyer, Jed Walker and Olive Raffaeli, Richie Hoarderson
Tyrian, Miriam
As for Kevin, unless I missed someone, he got 7 (Lore, Wet, Ordeaux, Library, Forgo, G, Geode) and 3 (Me, Sghhrv6ub and Duck Of Doom). You need 5 five more than , so if I got the right count, he doesn't pass.
Would anyone be fine if I changed this.
- Origninal: Simon Carver is the reverend of Little Hope who forces the child, Mary Milton, to accuse innocent people of committing witchcraft; These people would then get executed in horrific ways with Amy chained up and drowning to death, Tanya either being hanged or burned on the stake, David impaled by a fence, and Joshua being pressed by stones. Carver would then accuse Mary of being a witch and if Carver succeeds in getting Mary executed he smiles sadistically while watching Mary being burned alive.
And make it this.
- Little Hope: Simon Carver is the reverend of Little Hope who forces the child, Mary Milton, to accuse innocent people of committing witchcraft. These innocents are then executed in horrific ways with Amy chained up and drowning to death, Tanya either being hanged or burned on the stake, David impaled by a fence, and Joshua being pressed by stones. Carver would then accuse Mary of being a witch and if Carver succeeds in getting Mary executed he smiles sadistically while watching Mary being burned alive.
The three day waiting period is over and he got approved, so here's my entry for Oswyn Puschinske.
The Dark Eye: The Archmage Oswyn Puschinske is the headmaster of the Hall of Power who wishes to establish a continent-wide Magocracy and lord over the rest of the population. To achieve his goal he places a Night Soul inside the leader of the Grey Guild and plans to turn him into a living bomb at the largest gathering of mages on the continent to cripple the Mage Guilds and kill everyone who could oppose him. Afterwards he intends to plant another Night Soul inside the Empress of the Middenrealm to rule the nation from the shadows. When the Nigh Soul inside the guild leader got exposed before he can set his plan in motion, he attempts to have it kill all witnesses by causing a magical catastrophe that would destroy one third of a city. When he's eventually confronted by the Player Characters he proudly explains his plans to them in an attempt to stall for time, while he secretly takes over the minds of their allies and orders them to kill the Player Characters.
His placement on the page is a bit tricky. He has been around long before every other CM except Xeraan. So it makes sence to put him between Xeraan and Rhazzazor. But as I said in the EP, he was only a footnote in the setting before his most recent appearance where he committed not only his most notable crimes but was also killed off at the end of the adventure. Therefore, putting him at the end of the list below Aarbilar makes sense, too. I leave it up to you ACW.
Funny little trivia: Puschinske was my first Dark Eye candidate who had a last name. Guess in this setting having Only One Name drastically increases your chances of being a CM.
Edited by NTG on Jan 22nd 2023 at 4:03:50 AM
Yes to Richie Hoarderson
Think I'll put him at the end. Mind adding him to the Drafts?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsMind adding the potholes?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsSorry. Fixed it.
So uh everybody cool with my fix for Carver?
Haven't got an opinion on it yet.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Look great Mir.
Yeah, Looks way better to me
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?The tweek looks great Mir
- Oswyn Puschinske is the headmaster of the Hall of Power who wishes to establish a continent-wide Magocracy and lord over the rest of the population. To achieve this goal, Puschinske places a Night Soul inside the leader of the Grey Guild and plans to turn him into a living bomb at the largest gathering of mages on the continent to cripple the Mage Guilds and kill everyone who could oppose him. Afterwards, Puschinske intends to plant another Night Soul inside the Empress of the Middenrealm to rule the nation from the shadows. When the Night Soul inside the guild leader got exposed before he could set his plan in motion, Puschinske attempts to have it kill all witnesses by causing a magical catastrophe that would destroy one third of a city. When he's eventually confronted by the Player Characters, Puschinske proudly explains his plans to them in an attempt to stall for time, while he secretly takes over the minds of their allies and orders them to kill the Player Characters.
Okay I've got a few candidates I got to discuss. Let's start with two from a show that I meant to cover this year but couldn't due to the pages being locked, but now with the proposal threads open I can do the. From the show Blood & Treasure so lets talk about it.
What’s The Work?
Blood & Treasure is an American Action-Adventure Drama that centers on a Danny McNamara, a brilliant antiquities expert and Lexi Vaziri, a cunning art thief, who team up to catch the ruthless terrorist, Karim Farouk, who funds his attacks through stolen treasure. That all in Season 1 where Karim Farouk, aka Simon Hardwick does not qualify for this trope being a Magnificent Bastard.
Season 2 on the other had may feature two possible candidates for this trope (this EP will be discussing the first candidate) where Danny and Lexi once again team up to stop another international terrorist, The Great Khan from using an ancient artifact, The Spirit Banner of Genghis Khan for their own evil plans. That said there are two people that have used the name, The Great Khan, one of whom serves as The Heavy for the other and also happens to be my candidate, Batu.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Batu is The Heavy for season 2 serving as the acting Great Khan on the behalf of Violet, the true Great Khan and Big Bad of Season 2, where he would command Violet’s army and use them to attack countless areas throughout the world in his pursuit of the Spirit Banner, leading to countless casualties and bloodshed throughout with Batu’s attack on the Vatican leading to at least 8 people getting killed.
Batu would also retrieve Simon Hardwick who was being held captive in an Irish Prison, where Batu would force Simon to work for him threatening with death and torture should Simon fail him, where Batu actually brands Simon against his will when he thought that Simon was planning against him. He also shows this similar cruelty to his soldiers feeding one of them to crocodiles when they failed him with it being a regular punishment Batu orders to any who fails him.
As the season progresses Batu has his army attack more areas across the world leading to many deaths such as the wife of Danny’s contact, Andrei Levchenko, before killing Andrei at a later point, and would also steal a nuclear bomb at a Russian facility with plans of using it to kill millions to assert his might, and would have a group of white hat hackers killed so that they would become a threat to Batu and Violets plans.
We would later learn that Batu wants find the Spirit Banner of Genghis Khan because he believe that it contained a deadly virus that would kill off anyone who doesn’t have the Khan’s DNA while believing he won’t get killed because he has the Khan’s DNA with Batu’s plan to create a Master Race by unleashing the virus throughout the world so that everyone but those from the Khan’s lineage will be killed off so that he may rule over them.
However before Batu could enact on his genocidal plan one of his goons decided to kill him, becoming sick of Batu’s Bad Boss tendencies, while attempting to take over the Great Khan’s army. That’s when Violet killed said good reveals herself as the Great Khan and true Big Bad, while later revealing that there is no virus failed but used the legend that there was to cause world panic for her own plans, while planning to use the nuclear bomb Batu stole to nuke Hong Kong, killing millions there, fortunately she’s stopped by Danny and Lexi.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualties?
All that was known about Batu was that he joined forces with Violet serving as the acting Great Khan while Violet was the Man Behind the Man, but it is never shown at any point that Batu was genuinely loyal to Violet only deciding to work with her for his own gain because he believed that he was superior over everyone else by having the bloodline of Genghis Khan
Not to mentioned that Batu wanted to prove his superiority by finding a Virus he thought to be true and unleash on the world, all to kill off everyone lacking the Kahn’s DNA and create a Master Race which he plans to rule over. So yeah his goals and alliance to Violet are entirely self-serving with no well-intentions for sympathy whatsoever and treats his on subordinates horribly, killing any torturing any who remotely displeases him.
Heinousness
While the real Big Bad of Season 2 is Violet whose real plan is to use the myth of a Virus to cause global panic so that everyone will be too distracted stop her from stealing trillions of dollars while planning to nuke Hong Kong to cover her tracks, she does some militating factors that prevents her from counting and I actually plan to EP her as a Magnificent Bastard (she had a sympathetic backstory of growing in the slums of Hong Kong while sharing a friend with Lexi).
Batu on the other hand has no such excuse or redeeming qualities and by serving as The Heavy until his death, his atrocities are shown throughout, having his men attack numerous places around the world, such as the Vatican City and a Russian facility, and kill countless people throughout his rampages, feeding his men to crocodiles if they fail him, branding Simon Hardwick when the latter tries making a move against him, killing a group of white-hat hackers, while planning to unleashing a virus to kill off everyone but himself and those who have the Khan’s DNA (thankfully it’s revealed that the virus doesn’t exist but still) and the nuke that Violet plans to use on Hong Kong Batu retrieved it for her. There is one other candidate but where it stands, Batu definitely stands out.
Final Verdict?
I’ll leave it to you guys
Seems like a yes. He made concrete steps to unleash the virus, which is enough even if it doesn't exist (similar to Ehrhardt).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsYes to Batu
for Batu. After the description of the plot of Season 1 I certainly didn’t not expect that Season 2 would involve bad guys stealing nuclear weapons. How are they going to top THAT in a hypothetical Season 3?
Okay here's my second candidate from Blood & Treasure, Dr. Orlov.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Doctor Orlov was a doctor from the Soviet Union who was stationed in a bio-weapon facility Kazakhstan called Aralsk-7, and was in charged of creating a genocidal Virus that would kill anyone with Genghis Khan’s DNA. To his end Orlov obtain the Spirit Banner of Genghis Khan to extract the Khan’s DNA and mixed with various viruses.
Afterwards he would test his virus on innocent children that he had kidnapped throughout Kazakhstan and brought to his facility resulting in these children getting severely ill, deformed, and eventually die as a result of Orlov’s horrific experiments on him, much to the apathy of Orlov as his only concern was creating a genocidal virus.
The Vatican would eventually learn about Dr. Orlov and all the horrific experiment that he conducted on innocent children and his plans on creating a virus that could wipe anyone who may have even the smallest traces of the Khan’s DNA so the allied with the CIA and infiltrated Orlov’s facility and kill the Mad Scientist and took his research and the Spirit Banner.
Despite Orlov’s death his legacy still lived on in the present as this creates the legend that a virus was created (which is back up by the fact that Batu’s army may have found Orlov’s research when they raided the Vatican) which Batu planned to use to wipe out anyone that doesn’t share the Khan’s DNA.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities?
All that’s known about Orlov was that he was a genocidal racist who tried to create a Virus to wipe out a certain ethnical bloodline and conducted horrific experiments on innocent children to accomplish this, all while showing no care or remorse that all of these children ended of dying because of Orlov’s treatment of them. So yeah nothing regarding an excuse or redeeming qualities for Orlov.
Other Militating Factors?
Now Orlov is already long by the time that Danny and Lexi infiltrated his facility but we see photographs of Orlov, all the bodies throughout the facility and evidence of what Orlov had done to his victims that I think we can count this onscreen. It also helped that we recently had approved multiple posthumous villain so long as there is evidence of their villainy shown onscreen (Henry Avery from Uncharted 4 being one such example)
Heinousness
For a dead guy who showed up in one episode (Mystery at Poison Island), Orlov has committed some unique atrocities that allows him to stand out such as killing countless children through his twisted experimentation on them all to engineer and unleash a genocidal virus to kill off everyone who has the Khan’s bloodline.
This leads to the possibility of the Spirit Banner containing a potential Virus leading to the actions committed by villains Batu and Violent, making Orlov a major catalyst to the events that has transpired throughout season 2 and a lot of deaths that came out of that.
Final Verdict
I’ll leave it to you guys.
Okay, with Richie...seems like late in the game there's aliens who want to destroy Earth, and even if they don't count (they think humans enjoy killing each other), they jack up the heinous standard/
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsThought this whole bad guy never appearing in person wasn't supposed to apply to live action works?
I sincerely remembered we agreed to that.
Edit: Batu though.
Edited by miraculous on Jan 22nd 2023 at 8:26:34 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Yes to Batu, no to Orlov
I would also ask people not to do two EP's on the same page, it's discourteous to others when we have a limit of only 4 a page/hour
Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 22nd 2023 at 8:32:34 AM
Seriously I had no idea about that rule being made. What would be the difference between a villain whose evidence is shown onscreen but the villain himself isn't seen in live-actions works (there are pictures of Orlov and his corpse his shown in the facility) vs. a villain whose evidence is shown onscreen but the villain himself isn't seen in non-live action works (I don't know if this rule applies to video games since Henry Avery from Uncharted 4 isn't seen in flashbacks aside, only appearing as a corpses yet he's able to pull through )
If we see pictures of him and his corpse, that's enough onscreen IMO.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsTbh I would down vote this guy anyway. The Ep has not mentioned any personality whatsoever. Its describing deeds and a plan sure but not like anything to be a character.
Edited by miraculous on Jan 22nd 2023 at 8:53:34 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ALL of this week's writeups (new AND rewritesl if more come later today, I'll include them):
Edited by ACW on Jan 22nd 2023 at 4:54:15 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts