previous TRS thread

So, I want to have a second attempt where we fix this trope once and for all. Here are the quick results of the But Not Too Black Wick Check.

• 7/68 examples of "a character experiences colorism In-Universe," or 10%.
• 11/68 examples are zero-context and other miscellaneous usages, or 28%.
• 19/68 examples of "characters' skin color getting whitewashed/lightened in an adaptation," or 16%.
• 29/68 examples of "a character is light-skinned/has mixed black race" or "a character of color has their ethnic features minimized," or 43%.
• 6/68 examples are of casting choices where in most of them the actor who gets cast for a role is lighter than the character in the original material or the opposite, or 9%.
• 6/68 examples are misuse that fits other existing tropes, or 9%.

A more detailed analysis:

• One way to interpret most examples is that they use this trope like the other "But Not Too X" snowclone tropes, with dark skin/blackness being toned down to appeal to a wider audience. Another interpretation is that it's used to describe any light-skinned or mixed character that exists (similar to the now-disambiguated Mixed Ancestry) which is chairs.
• Next common usage is for examples where a character's original dark skin is whitewashed in an adaptation or vice versa, which in the case of a live-action adaptation sometimes involves being played by an actor of a different skin tone, which overlaps with the 5th category.
• Less common usage is for examples of characters dealing with colorism in the story.
• The least two common usages are for A) examples of casting choices wherein the actor who gets cast for the role is lighter than the character in the original material or (rarely) the opposite, and B) examples that fit other existing tropes.

TL;DR: But Not Too Black is mostly used similarly as But Not Too Foreign (which may need its own thread to discuss its tropeworthiness) but the black ver.

Solutions:

As we can't always be sure of the author's intentions if they meant to have the character's blackness to be downplayed to appeal to broader audiences or if they genuinely wanted to include a biracial character that happened to be (half) black, this trope needs to go through some changes.

• Disambiguate between Ambiguously Brown, But Not Too Foreign, But Not Too White, Half-Breed Discrimination, and possibly other tropes. This isn't one of my preferred solution.
• Or redefine the trope to be about characters facing discrimination due to their dark skin In-Universe since it has a redirect to colorism anyway. This will also make it match its opposite trope But Not Too White's definition. It currently has 4 wicks, and with the examples in my wick check, then they'd be 11 wicks.
  • If we redefine it, then send it back to TLP to let it gather more examples under a name like "Dark Skin Stigma".
  • If not, then we redefine it to the second most popular usage, "a character's skin tone gets whitewashed in an adaptation," and discuss what will its new name be.
• If redefinition is no good, then cut and yard the suggested tropes. This is my least preferred solution.
• Create a Useful Notes for colorism. amathieu13 and I already made a sandbox for it back in the old thread (idk if this is a good suggestion w/ the discussion going around about UN's uses and scope).

What are y'all's thoughts?

• Characters.Homicide Life On The Street: Under Giardello's folder, Giardello has repeatedly been turned down by women out of colorism. He recalls that at one point a woman said she could never love him because of how dark-skinned he is. This has not helped Giardello's emotional state, especially since this has sabotaged all of his efforts to get back in the dating scene after his wife died.
• Literature.Children Of Blood And Bone: While everyone is black, dark skin is still discriminated against and Amari's mother covers her in make-up to lighten her. However, pretty much everyone in the book averts it, including the gods, and dark skin is often a mark of beauty so overall it comes off as a condemnation of the trope. — A straight & inverted example
• Literature.Beauty Queens: Averted and discussed. Nicole is very dark-skinned and her backstory discusses colourism in detail. — Lacks context but fits here
• Literature.The Dirty Girls Social Club: Colorism is shown to be commonplace in the Latin community. Liz is condescendingly hailed at her newscasting job as the "black woman who talks white but has an Hispanic last name". Usnvays' mother tried to downplay her daughter's blackness in her childhood by claiming she's light-skinned, and forbidding her from dating dark-skinned men. Rebecca's mother also forbade her daughter from dating black men, which initially influences Rebecca's hesitation to date her Nigerian-British colleague Andre. Lauren herself frequently makes colorist remarks towards darker Latinos.
• Series.Girlfriends: Subverted with the main cast, which has a range of skin tones. Dealt with In-Universe, with a episode about Toni (who has the darkest skin tone within the group) rejecting a date because she refuses to date dark-skinned black men. Toni's justification is that she faced a lot of colorism growing up and doesn’t want her future children to be subject to the same hurtful comments that she dealt with. Also dealt with Lynn, who was raised by a white family and only started exploring her blackness when she became an adult. When Lynn gets a record deal, her label flat out tells her they don’t know how to market her indie music because she neither looks nor “sounds” black enough. — Should be separated into 2 bullets, but it fits well
• Characters.Dear White People: In the film, Coco invokes this for herself when joking that white girls' tans are getting darker than her own skin tone, "which...isn't that dark...". Coco's character arc is also very much about the nefarious effect of colorism in society; Coco tries very hard to fit within the white standards of beauty as revealed by her use of colored contact lenses (in the film) and weave, being anxious about exhibiting her natural hair and having a predominantly white Girl Posse. This explains her fallout with her friend Sam who, in contrast, tries to erase her white heritage and to emphasize her blackness.
• Series.Black Ish: — Firs bullet fits "usage based on the trope's literal name" + Second bullet fits here
  • As the name implies, a running theme of the show revolves around the family (particularly Dre) trying not to seem like they're selling out or "acting white" now that they have achieved financial success. Bow receives the brunt of it thanks to being half-white. "If I'm not black, could someone tell my hair and my ass?" Ironically, when we meet her mother, she's more "white" looking than Bow.
  • "Black Like Us" discusses colorism specifically, dealing with Diane being the darkest-skinned one in the family.

• Characters.Breath Of Fire I: Under Karn's folder, Karn/Danc had much darker skin in the Japanese version; he was lightened up in the North American version.
  • He essentially looked as if in Blackface, as seen in the image to the right. Most definitely changed due to Values Dissonance with western audiences. Also counts as Unfortunate Character Design
• Harley Quinn (2019): Others: Under Lucius's folder, This Lucius' skin tone is lighter compared to his comic counterpart.
• WesternAnimation.The Magic School Bus Rides Again: Both Keesha and Tim have had their skin color noticeably lightened.
• Toys.Ame Comi Girls: Most incarnations of Natasha Irons, Steel, depict her with strong African features but in this universe she's a dark-skinned blond with blue eyes.
• Characters.Mortal Kombat X: Under Jacqui's folder, Inverted. In MKX she looked too similar to the Caucasian Cassie, and not similar enough to her father. The only Black attributes she had were her cornrows. As of 11, her skin's a lot darker, she looks a lot more like her father, and she has more varied hairstyles that Black women actually wear. — More like an inverted Adaptationally Light Skinned
• Characters.Sailor Moon Main Cast: Under Setsuna's folder, She's downright dark-skinned in the manga, but in both anime and pretty much any color illustration, she's just lightly tanned.
• Characters.Sailor Moon Main Cast: Under Hali's folder, In the animated series, she has a pale skin tone as opposed to the much darker tan her doll has.
• Characters.The Boondocks Main Characters: 'Under Jessi's folder, In the books, she's described as having very dark, cocoa-colored skin, which is reflected in cover art. Here she's played by an actress with a significantly lighter skin tone.
• ComicBook.DC Comics Bombshells: Mari of Zambezi is drawn with red hair and a much lighter skin tone than she's usually depicted with.
• Film.Malcolm X: Inverted. Denzel Washington actually has a far darker complexion than the real Malcolm X, who had notably reddish hair and rather light skin due to partial white ancestry, making this also a case of Fake Mixed Race. In both the book and the film, Malcolm notes that his light-skinned mother (the result of her mother's rape by a white man) hated her complexion and that one of the reasons she married his father was because he was dark-skinned and wanted to ensure that her children would have some color. Consequently, he felt that she favored his siblings because they were darker than him. Possibly played straight by his father, who he suspected favored him for the very same reason. — An inverted example + Belongs to casting choices, too
• Literature.The Hate U Give: Averted in the book, played straight in the film. Starr is depicted in the book (as on the front cover) as dark-skinned, while she is played by Amandla Stenberg, who is Black but very light-skinned.

• Anime.Great Mazinger: But Not Too Foreign: June combines this with But Not Too Black. — ZCE
• But Not Too Black: Lana. — ZCE
  Archer: You're black...-ish.
  Lana: -Ish?!
  Archer: Well, what's the word for it, Lana? You freaked out when I said "quadroon!".
• Characters.Archie Comics: Under Wendell the Busboy's folder, His skin tone can be this. — ZCE
• Characters.Bad Day On The Midway: IRS Man, Though this could be due to the game's graphical limitations. Despite being described as black by other characters and drawn as such in the cutscenes, his in-game model doesn't have much darker skin than the other characters. — Not that dark-skinned compared to others
• Characters.Bayonetta Main Characters: Under Rodin's folder
  • Soul Brotha: Groovy slang? Smooth delivery? Averting But Not Too Black? Cool and badass? Rodin says yes to all four. Fully dark-skinned black character
  Rodin: Right on, baby. Right on.
  Rodin: Chill, Bayonetta. Don't go shootin' up my target, ya dig?
  Rodin: Damn... some of these fools are really 'bout that life.
• Characters.Big Mouth School: Under Devon's folder, He reveals to Missy that he's got a dial that let's him adjust his outward personality so he can either be non-threatening to white people and elderly black people, or full-on gangster to other black kids and talking pretzels. — ???
• Characters.Dragon Age Recurring Party Members: Under Isabela's Tropes In Dragon Age: Origins, The lighting makes her skin appear far whiter than she really is. — Not intentional on the developer's part
• Characters.Earth Twenty Seven The Justice League: Under Icon's folder, Icon in his civilian life is a lawyer, and very well educated, and lives in the suburbs. Because of this, some have accused him of being a sellout and not "acting black". Icon himself admits that this had been true before he put on the suit, his time as an upper-class lawyer having insulated him from the plight of black people. — Not considered "black" enough In-Universe + usage based on the trope's literal name
• Characters.Fatal Fury King Of Fighters: Under Duck King's folder, Though it didn't become apparent till Real Bout. Prior to that, he was portrayed as more lightskinned. — ZCE + light-skinned character exists
• Characters.Fire Emblem Awakening First Generation Males: Under Basilio's folder, Notably averted, at least for his skin tone; it's noticeably darker than Flavia's. — Fully dark-skinned character
• Characters.Its Always Sunny In Philadelphia Recurring Characters: Under Duncan & Z's folder, Almost said word for word by Mac. When they try to win an award they invite Z to try and add some diversity but Mac says that he's too black and is just going to intimidate the judges. — The aversion of the trope + "being too dark-skinned is disadvantageous"/ "Dark Skin Stigma"?
• Characters.Law And Order UK: Under Joe Hawkins' folder, He's mocked about his light skin by a dark-skinned suspect, who alternates between seeming jealous—insinuating that he's had an easier time because of it—or being contemptuous—calling him a "mongrel". He didn't take too kindly to it. — Light skin is advantageous/ "Light Skin Favoritism"?"
• Characters.Malcolm In The Middle: Under Piama's folder, Invoked. When the family try to discourage Ida from living with them, they resort to asking Abe and his friends to scare her off playing the race card against her. — What's this supposed to be? She looks Asian
  Piama: I'd do it, but I'm not dark enough. I just annoy her.
• Characters.Moonflowers: Under Mayari's entry in the Humans' folder, Averted since she's a precolonial goddess with dark skin and curly hair, and the Irish gods trust her BECAUSE she's clearly not Catholic.
• Characters.Marvel Comics Marvels: There was a bit of a mini-controversy for the second volume of Mighty Avengers, when she debuts a new, short hairstyle with her hair straightened, whereas in previous appearances Monica always wore her hair naturally with her dreadlocked look being the most remembered one. This was later addressed in an issue where Monica was shown to be horrified when a little black girl said she wanted to straighten her hair to look like Monica's, and she's since gone back to her dreadlocked look. — Putting it here bc it's more about her hairstyle than her skin tone, though it might fit usage based on the trope's literal name, as well
• Characters.Rainbow High: Under Harper's folder, Her art lightens her A LOT. — ??? Does this refer to an adaptation?
• Characters.The Boondocks Main Characters: Under Uncle Ruckus' folder, Invoked. Despite having the darkest skin of all characters, Ruckus really wants to believe that he isn't a black man. He often claims to be a white man with a "re-vitiligo" disease that darkens his skin, the opposite of what Michael Jackson had (lucky bastard). — He just hates his race and doesn't want to be associated with it — not this trope
  • Upon receiving a DNA test result claiming he is 50% white, he jumps for joy, unaware that the result was actually faked. He's actually 102% black (with a 2% margin of error).
• Creator.James Madio: He has Ambiguously Brown skin but many of his headshots show him with a lighter shade, presumably because of this trope.
• Film.Black Panther 2018: Averted; most of the actors are dark-skinned, man and woman alike and regardless of prominence in the film. Some are a bit lighter, but only when compared with the others, and even then are impossible to mistake for anything other than black. — Fully dark-skinned characters
• Film.Buffy The Vampire Slayer: Nicki, a minor member of Buffy's Girl Posse.

• Analysis.The Princess And The Frog: Averted with Tiana. Dr. Facilier is lighter than even the "olive-toned" prince, probably meant to be Creole, but he's the villain.
• Anime.Happiness Charge Pretty Cure: The international Precure who appear in episode 8 don't look any different from our Japanese main cast. Most egregious with the Wonderful Net Precure, who appear to be from India, with one of them sporting a bindi — despite this, their skin is only slightly darker. Or even better (worse?), Cure Nile, who despite being from Egypt, is just as fair as the Japanese mains.
• Awesome.Ralph Breaks The Internet: The crew actually putting in the time and effort to change Tiana's model to be closer to her original appearance after complaints that she'd been turned But Not Too Black, proving that they truly do value their fans and want to do right by them.
• Characters.Americas Next Top Model Cycle Five: Under Nik's folder, She is a light-skinned African-American.
• Characters.Americas Next Top Model Cycle Twelve: Under Fo's folder, She is half-black and half-mexican or "Blaxican" as she likes to say. — Mixed
• Bowdlerise.Theatre: This trope actually makes sense for the school edition of Once on This Island, because the cast consists wholly of But Not Too Black wealthy folk and very dark-skinned peasants. Their racial divide is a major source of their conflict, but this typecasting isn't very common in the average school, so this divide is removed, leaving only the emphasis between the poor and the rich. — light-skinned black characters exist + Real Life casting
• Characters.Americas Next Top Model The Panel: Under Kimora Lee Simmons' folder, Her mother is Asian, while her father's African-American.
• Characters.A Song Of Ice And Fire Essos The Free Cities Braavos: First entry under the Bellegere Otherys' folder, Her skin colour is actually light brown. A Braavosi girl named Mercy (actually Arya Stark), considers she should be called the Brown Pearl.
  • She is a Targaryen descendant from King Aegon IV, the Targaryens being ostensibly and almost otherworldy white.
• Characters.Big Brother 19 Evicted: Under Ramses Soto's folder, Ramses is Black Dominican, but he's also rather light skinned. Some fans even thought that he was mixed or biracial because of his light skin tone.
• Characters.Big Brother 11:
  • Under Natalie Martinez' folder, Natalie is only half black.
  • Under Kevin Campbell's folder, Kevin is only half black (he is also half Asian).
• Characters.Desperate Housewives Housewives: Under Reene's folder, Like Gaby, she was a more materialistic, extremely wealthy, glamorous woman of color who was also But Not Too Black.
• Characters.Conan The Barbarian 1982: Under Thulsa Doom's folder, He has straight hair and blue eyes, giving him a distinctly un-African look. According to the director's commentary, this was done to make him look more like a member of a long-forgotten race.
• Ed, Edd n Eddy - The Kids: Under Jonny 2x4's folder:
  • Token Minority: Jonny is the only dark-skinned character on the show (but not too dark-skinned). Rolf probably would not qualify for this, however, since the references to his "Old Country" makes him most likely to be from Eastern Europe, and is just tan from the farm work he does.
• Characters.Glee Other Minor Characters: Under Hiram & Leroy Berry's folder, Leroy, but justified. It's long been established that Rachel's parents are a mixed couple and that none of them know which is her biological father, so it makes sense for her black dad to be light-skinned.
• Characters.Empire: Under Anika's folder, While the Lyon family are all pretty fair-skinned themselves, Anika takes the cake and Cookie is quick to call her on it. Turns out she's mixed (white father, black mother).
• Characters.How To Get Away With Murder: Under Christopher's folder:
  • But Not Too Foreign: Each of his grandparents hails from a different country: Charles Mahoney is American, Rose Edmond is Haitian, Jorge Castillo is Mexican, and Sandrine Castillo is French. Overlaps with But Not Too Black as only his Haitian paternal grandmother is black.
• Characters.Hey Arnold Students Of PS 118 Mr Simmons Class: Under Nadine's folder, In a Freeze-Frame Bonus in Parents Day, Nadine's parents are shown to be a black mom and a white father.
• Characters.Killing Eve British Intelligence: Under Jess' folder, Jess is mixed race, in comparison to Elena's dark skin.
• Characters.Ni No Kuni Protagonists: An extreme example; while her father is dark-skinned, she looks entirely white, complete with blonde hair and blue eyes.
• Characters.Marvel Comics Storm: Black, variably dark skin, but with white and Asian features, and blue eyes. She was supposed to have features of many races, to resemble Gaia. However, this largely depends on the artist. It's important to mention that this is not due to racism, but rather to late artist Dave Cockrum's intention to make her a "woman of the world". — She's dark-skinned but doesn't have black features
• Characters.Oz Muslims: Under Mershah's folder, Ironically for a Black militant he has the lightest skin of all the Black characters in the show and could probably pass for white.
• Characters.Resident Evil 5: Under Sheva's folder, Sheva is West African, but her light skin, sharp features and straight hair looks more Indian than West African. Her face model, Michelle Van Der Water, is Dutch/East Indian.
• Pokémon Sun and Moon: Under the General Tropes folder:
  • Virtual Paper Doll: Much like the Gen VI protagonists, the Gen VII protagonists are customizable. Even more so now that you can choose between four skin tones, including a legit dark skin tone as opposed to X and Y only having a medium brown, more clothing options, being able to dye white clothes and even go hatless.
• Characters.Power Girl: Under Donna's folder, She has a darker skin tone than the rest of the cast in her first on panel appearance but sporadically got lighter-skinned in later art. — Could also count as Inconsistent Coloring
• Characters.Sonic The Hedgehog Sat AM: Under Sonic's folder, Voice actor Jaleel White wanted Sonic to sound "of no race". — What's Sonic doing here??? He's literally a hedgehog
• Characters.The Batman Protagonists: Under Bennett's folder, While he's pretty dark-skinned, Ethan has blue eyes, indicating that he's part Caucasian.
• Comic Book.Ant: Hannah's African-American, but it's a little hard to tell given the art. Not to mention her skin and hair are light enough that she could easily pass as a tan white woman.
• Around the World in 80 Days: The book's protagonist, an Englishman, falls in love with and marries an Indian princess. Although Verne describes her as fair skinned and notes that her English is perfect, most likely as an excuse to make the pairing more acceptable to his 19th century audience, featuring an interracial marriage at all is still progressive for its time period.
• Fanfic.We Were Friends: Takona is lighter-skinned than Korra, which she points out. He replies he's of mixed ancestry.

• Characters.Catwoman Selina Kyle: Has been portrayed by bi/multiracial actresses Eartha Kitt, Halle Berry, and Zoë Kravitz. — Originally Latino character portrayed by multiracial actresses
• Series.Luke Cage 2016: Misty Knight's casting drew accusations of colorism. ZCE but fits here
• Characters.MCU James Rhodes: Inverted with his recasting; Don Cheadle is noticeably darker than Terrence Howard. — A darker actor is casted instead of a previously less darker actor
• Characters.Marvel Comics Storm: Black, variably dark skin, but with white and Asian features, and blue eyes. She was supposed to have features of many races, to resemble Gaia. However, this largely depends on the artist. It's important to mention that this is not due to racism, but rather to late artist Dave Cockrum's intention to make her a "woman of the world".
  • This has extended to the live-action films, where the casting of biracial actress Halle Berry is criticized by fans. The casting of Alexandra Shipp, who is also biracial like Halle Berry and looks remarkably like a younger version of her, has been similarly criticized as well. — Casting choice backlash/character is whitewashed in adaptation aka Hollywood whitewashing
• Creator.Zoe Saldana: She came under controversy for her role in Nina, where she wore make-up and facial prosthetics to resemble Nina Simone - who had much darker skin than her. She was notably very annoyed at the criticisms saying she wasn't black enough. However, later on she apologized for taking the role, admitting she wasn't the best choice in hindsight.
  "I made a choice. Do I continue passing on the script and hope that the 'right' black person will do it, or do I say, ‘You know what? Whatever consequences this may bring about, my casting is nothing in comparison to the fact that this story must be told.’"
  * Podcast.Black Men Cant Jump In Hollywood: Because it follows the trend of Colorism, which denies roles to black actors who are deemed to be too dark in complexion by Hollywood executives.

• Characters.BNA Brand New Animal: Under Pinga's folder, He has a tan skin complexion but his overall appearance suggests that he's European-coded.
  • Possibly a case of Shown Their Work, given that of the five islands where Wandering Albatross breed, one is owned by South Africa, one is owned by Australia, one is owned by Britain, and the last two are owned by France. — Ambiguously Brown?
• Characters.Dead Or Alive 4: Under Hamilton's folder, Zigzagged. The skin of her playable model was considerably darker in 4 than it was in the cutscenes, the Xtreme side series, and 5. — Inconsistent Coloring
• Characters.Saints Row Saints Row Gangs: Under Benjamin's folder, In IV, King's skin is a different shade than it was in the first game, largely due to his appearance being altered to more closely resemble Terry Crews than Michael Clarke Duncan. Rather noticeable, since King had the darkest skin of all the Vice King superiors in the first game. — I think it's more of Inconsistent Coloring?
• Characters.Star Wars The Partisans: Inverted to the point of verging on Race Lift. In The Clone Wars Saw and Steela are Ambiguously Brown, and their family name is an obvious reference to Che Guevara, implying that they are Hispanic-coded. In Rogue One Saw is played by the very dark-skinned Forest Whitaker. That being said, Steela's skin pigment is darker than his, and given that they're siblings, it's not too hard to infer that they're both black. However, in The Bad Batch, they split the difference, with the same younger model but with a brown skin tone closer to Whitaker's. — A downplayed example of Race Lift?
• Comic Book.Vixen: — Inconsistent Coloring / Depending on the Artist?
  • Some issues of the 2006 Justice League of America series drew criticism for portraying Vixen with European features and fluctuating skin tones.
  • Her Bombshells counterparts is drawn with red hair and a much lighter skin tone than she's usually depicted with.
• Film.Charlies Angels 2019: Two of the three Angels (Jane, then eventually Elena) are now women of color. However, both have more Caucasian features and fairly light skin (the actresses were biracial). Zigzagged though in that their first Bosley is played by Beninese actor Djimon Hounsou. — Race Lift