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An expy is an unambiguous and deliberate copy of another, older character."

Note the word "another" and the words "unambiguous", "deliberate", and "copy". Those are the important words.

Here's your checklist:

  • "Unambiguous": There is no doubt, there is no room for arguing that they aren't.
    • If a plausible or convincing argument can be made that they aren't an expy, they aren't.
    • If the reasons for saying they are one are not convincing, they also aren't.
    • A character is not an expy only sometimes but not other times. They either are, completely, or they aren't, completely.

  • "Deliberate": Done with intent.
    • The resemblance is not accidental or coincidental. (For instance, being played by the same voice actor/actress is not sufficient to make an expy. Neither is a similar art style when they're both drawn by the same artist.)
    • Word of God helps a lot with this point, but if the other points are present strongly enough, Word of God is not absolutely required.

  • "Copy": A duplicate, an item made in imitation of another one.
    • The expy came after the character they're an expy of. If they both were created at about the same time, it probably isn't an expy.
    • The older character is never the expy, even if the other, later character is better known.
    • Superficial traits (like a hairstyle, choice in clothing, preferred fighting method) are not sufficient to make an expy; the copy needs to also fill the same role in the work and serve the same purpose within the story.
    • Major traits or characteristics being very different between the two characters is enough to make a character not an expy (for instance, the original is a demure Girl Next Door, the proposed Expy is a FemmeFatale — not an expy)

  • "Another": One other. Note the singular. It doesn't say "several". If the proposed expy combines traits, characteristics, or features of two or more other characters, they are not an expy of any of them.

If an entry fails to meet even one of those criteria, it is not an expy and should be removed.. Actual expies are nowhere near as common as many editors think.

If you want to link to this post in your edit reason, please do.

Here's the link to copy and paste: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13983140170A37263400&page=1#5

edited 27th Mar '15 6:53:01 AM by Madrugada

ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Apr 23rd 2014 at 10:31:38 PM

An expy is an unambiguous and deliberate copy of another, older character."

Note the word "another" and the words "unambiguous", "deliberate", and "copy". Those are the important words.

Here's your checklist:

  • "Unambiguous": There is no doubt, there is no room for arguing that they aren't.
    • If a plausible or convincing argument can be made that they aren't an expy, they aren't.
    • If the reasons for saying they are one are not convincing, they also aren't.
    • A character is not an expy only sometimes but not other times. They either are, completely, or they aren't, completely.

  • "Deliberate": Done with intent.
    • The resemblance is not accidental or coincidental. (For instance, being played by the same voice actor/actress is not sufficient to make an expy. Neither is a similar art style when they're both drawn by the same artist.)
    • Word of God helps a lot with this point, but if the other points are present strongly enough, Word of God is not absolutely required.

  • "Copy": A duplicate, an item made in imitation of another one.
    • The expy came after the character they're an expy of. If they both were created at about the same time, it probably isn't an expy.
    • The older character is never the expy, even if the other, later character is better known.
    • Superficial traits (like a hairstyle, choice in clothing, preferred fighting method) are not sufficient to make an expy; the copy needs to also fill the same role in the work and serve the same purpose within the story.
    • Major traits or characteristics being very different between the two characters is enough to make a character not an expy (for instance, the original is a demure Girl Next Door, the proposed Expy is a FemmeFatale — not an expy)

  • "Another": One other. Note the singular. It doesn't say "several". If the proposed expy combines traits, characteristics, or features of two or more other characters, they are not an expy of any of them.

If an entry fails to meet even one of those criteria, it is not an expy and should be removed.. Actual expies are nowhere near as common as many editors think.

If you want to link to this post in your edit reason, please do.

Here's the link to copy and paste: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13983140170A37263400&page=1#5

edited 27th Mar '15 6:53:01 AM by Madrugada

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Apr 23rd 2014 at 10:48:49 PM

hmm, got these for a start:

Characters.Dynasty Warriors Jin Kingdom

Sima Shi

  • Expy: Of Chousokabe Motochika in appearance and personality. Given both characters are voiced by the same person, this is probably not a coincidence.
    • Of Alucard from Castlevania, also voiced by Ryotaro Okiayu. The fact his portrait in 8 is drawn Castlevania artist Ayami Kojima lends credence to this.

Xiahou Ba

  • Expy: Blue, stumpy armor? Short stature? A rocket-powered drill? Bushy brown hair under the helmet? Hot-Blooded? Why, it's Rock Volnutt!

Jia Chong

Guo Huai

Characters.Dynasty Warriors Shu Kingdom

Bao Sanniang

Guan Suo

Guan Yinping

Characters.Dynasty Warriors Wei Kingdom

Cao Cao

  • Expy: Of Nobunaga Oda in 7, since he covers his sword in a dark aura similar to Nobunaga. In the "what-if" ending of the Wu Story Mode for 8, he is Driven to Suicide in a similar manner to what happened to Nobunaga in history.

Zhang He

  • Expy: Of Vega (Balrog in the Japanese version), at least with his debut for 3. Reappearances in modern games slightly avert this until 7.
    • Bizarrely, he may also draw inspiration from a minor villain in Fist Of The North Star. One of Shin's lackeys, Club, fights with the same type of dual claw gauntlets and several of Zhang He's stances are not unlike ones Club is drawn in during his (rather brief) appearance.

Cai Wenji

  • Expy / Foil: To Diaochan, at some points.
    • Their similarities:
      • Both are highly devoted to their respective father. But while Diaochan does this to her adoptive father Wang Yun, Cai Wenji does this to her real father Cai Yong.
      • Both have talents regarding arts: Diaochan is a Dance Battler. Meanwhile, Cai Wenji is a Musical Assassin and Warrior Poet.
      • Both are kindhearted. However, while Diaochan has manipulative side, Cai Wenji is a honest woman.
      • Both are feeling indebted to their lords. Diaochan to Lu Bu for saving her from Dong Zhuo's lust, Cai Wenji to Cao Cao for saving her from kidnapper. Interesting enough, as their lords are very hostile each other.
    • Their differences:
      • Diaochan is a Stripperific Ms. Fanservice, while Cai Wenji is a Token Wholesome.
      • Diaochan has love interest: Lu Bu. Cai Wenji, despite being married to an imperial official (who is essentially also a subordinate of Cao Cao) in actual history, doesn't have one in the game.
      • Historical-wise, Diaochan is a fictional character that very loosely based on Dong Zhuo's unnamed historical maid who has secret affair with Lu Bu and many fictional accounts often depict her not having a child. Cai Wenji is a historical character and has children that includes from her kidnapper.
      • Diaochan's lords, both Dong Zhuo and Lu Bu, have lust towards her despite she partly invoked this to create feud between them. Cai Wenji's lord, Cao Cao, doesn't have lust towards her and never even made her as his concubine, despite he is believed having a reputation as Dirty Old Man to Two Qiaos and his own daughter-in-law Zhenji. In fact, Cai Wenji is Cao Cao's Morality Pet. And not only Cao Cao freed her from kidnapper, but he also arranged her marriage with an imperial official who is also his subordinate.
        • And they actually met each other in Cai Wenji's Legend Mode in Xtreme Legends 7, where Diaochan showed her symphaty towards Cai Wenji's devotion for her father. Cai Yong eventually also told Wenji about how Diaochan has lost her adoptive father, Wang Yun.

Yue Jin

  • Expy: Weirdly, of Rob Liefeld character Shatterstar. Yue Jin has the same sort of facial protector, unusual paired blades, long flowing sashes, lopsided shoulder protector, large exposed biceps, and the pointy knees of later Liefeldian armor designs; even his hair color isn't too far off. The only thing he's missing is the ponytail and the obnoxiously gritty dark Anti-Hero personality.

Li Dian

  • Expy: Bears a similar look to Takatora Toudou. Earlier impressions compared him with a less-self absorbed, more laid back Zhong Hui (must be the hair).

Characters.Dynasty Warriors Wu Kingdom

Huang Gai

Ding Feng

  • Expy: Kind of a stretch - fights with Good Old Fisticuffs and historically did end up being absorbed with his fortunes that he made losses for Wu (and to be honest, he was the strategist during Wu's "decline" after Lu Xun's departure, though it's not entirely his fault). Now examine his hair; yep, if Zhang He is to Vega/Balrog/Claw, then Ding Feng could very well be Balrog/M. Bison/Boxer. However, Ding Feng becomes less of this in 7: Empires, due to changing his weapon to a giant ring blade (he still has Balrog's Tyson-ish haircut, however).

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
MagBas Mag Bas from In my house
Apr 30th 2014 at 4:01:37 PM

I read recently the following example:

  • Cowboy Bebop being basically Lupin III IN SPACE! is naturally made of expies itself. Spike has Lupin's lanky build and agility, Jet is a mix of Jigen and Zenigata, Faye takes Fujiko's Asian seductress role. Vicious is the most blatant as Goemon without a Heel–Face Turn.

I am pretty sure that Word of God confirmed that Spike is not inspired in any other character.

ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Apr 30th 2014 at 4:27:05 PM

[up] That's shoehorning in my book, That's making a work an Expy, that's something else, probably Serial Numbers Filed Off.

EDIT: Also, read carefully, it's saying the main cast of Cowboy Bebop are expies of the Lupin III main cast, not just Spike.

I'd wait for a Mod (or maybe holler your own post if you want) before taking action though.

edited 30th Apr '14 4:28:49 PM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
Apr 30th 2014 at 6:16:29 PM

OK, mod hat: An expy is an unambiguous and deliberate copy of another, older character."

Note the word "another" and the words "unambiguous", "deliberate", and "copy". Those are the important words.

Here's your checklist:

  • "Unambiguous": There is no doubt, there is no room for arguing that they aren't.
    • If a plausible or convincing argument can be made that they aren't an expy, they aren't.
    • If the reasons for saying they are one are not convincing, they also aren't.
    • A character is not an expy only sometimes but not other times. They either are, completely, or they aren't, completely.

  • "Deliberate": Done with intent.
    • The resemblance is not accidental or coincidental. (for instance, being played by the same voice actor/actress is not sufficient to make an expy.)
    • Word of God helps a lot with this point, but if the other points are present strongly enough, Word of God is not absolutely required.

  • "Copy": A duplicate, an item made in imitation of another one.
    • The expy came after the character they're an expy of. If they both were created at about the same time, it probably isn't an expy.
    • The older character is never the expy, even if the other, later character is better known.
    • Superficial traits (like a hairstyle, choice in clothing, preferred fighting method) are not sufficient to make an expy; the copy needs to also fill the same role in the work and serve the same purpose within the story.
    • Major traits or characteristics being very different between the two characters is enough to make a character not an expy (for instance, the original is a demure Girl Next Door, the proposed Expy is a FemmeFatale — not an expy)

  • "Another": One other. Note the singular. It doesn't say "several". If the proposed expy combines traits, characteristics, or features of two or more other characters, they are not an expy of any of them.

If an entry fails to meet even one of those criteria, it is not an expy and should be removed.. Actual expies are nowhere near as common as many editors think.

If you want to link to this post in your edit reason, please do.

Here's the link to copy and paste: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13983140170A37263400&page=1#5

edited 30th Apr '14 6:38:53 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Willbyr Anime-ted from North Little Rock, AR Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Anime-ted
May 1st 2014 at 6:14:06 AM

I've changed the OP to [up] per request, but the header won't show up until this thread hits page 2.

Resize || Upgrades || My dA page
ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
May 1st 2014 at 6:23:44 AM

thanks. Guess we'll just wait for this to grow for now.

EDIT: I just noticed you also edited the op as well, meaning the checkist will be listed three times now... Well, that's not really a problem. Harder to miss, eh?

[down]OIC. didn't notice that in appearance tropes cleanup.

edited 1st May '14 7:14:56 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
May 1st 2014 at 6:47:43 AM

That's how the floating header posts work. It's the OP, carried over to all subsequent pages.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
MagBas Mag Bas from In my house
May 1st 2014 at 2:34:55 PM

  • A: The Transformers examples qualify or they are closer to the same guys in alternate continuities?

  • B:In the pokemon examples in Video Game, i read the following: "he earlier routes are known for having a number of recurring patterns in the Com Mons, such as with the Normal Rodents note Rattata, Sentret, Zigzagoon, Bidoof, Patrat, Bunnelby." Sentret and Zizagoon are not rodents and Sentret is not a Com Mon. Incorrect examples?

edited 1st May '14 5:54:41 PM by MagBas

May 2nd 2014 at 9:13:57 AM

Comic book examples:

  • Jessica Jones from Alias is an admitted expy of Jessica Drew. Alias was initially supposed to star Drew (hence the reason both characters are washed up former superheroes who become private detectives) before the Darker and Edgier nature of the series caused Marvel to request that Bendis use a new character instead.

Sound good.

  • DC's All-Star Squadron featured the Young All-Stars, who were meant to replace the Golden Age versions of Superman (Iron Munro), Wonder Woman (The Fury), Batman (Flying Fox), Aquaman (Neptune Perkins, Tsunami), and Green Arrow (Tigress) Post-Crisis, because they, you know, weren't active back then anymore. They had Nazi-created evil counterparts called Axis Amerika to contend with, which were also retrofitted Expies of the vanished Earth-2 heroes: Ubermensch (Superman), Gudra the Valkyrie (Wonder Woman), Grösshorn Eule and Fledermaus (Batman and Robin), Usil (Green Arrow) and Sea Wolf (Aquaman). Part of the reasoning was that, metaphysically speaking, iconic characters like Superman and Wonder Woman were "too big" to be replaced by just one new (and inevitably "lesser") character. The Token Japanese member of Axis Amerika, Kamikaze was an expy of Fawcett's Bulletman.

Probably want to take out Robin as an expy is a copy of only one character, but this one seems right. Probably needs expansion though.

  • Witchfire from Alpha Flight is a terribly obvious example, ripping off the concept of the New Mutants character Magik (except that she's the actual daughter of Belasco), as well as aspects of DC's Raven. It's hard to tell which character she's directly ripping off more, but it's clear that writer James Hudnall just wanted to write those characters, but wasn't allowed to at the time.

More than one character, suggest cut.

Zero context.

  • Archie was a smash hit for Archie Comics, and inspired many Expies:
    • In the sixties, DC Comics published Binky, who had dark hair, not red, and dated a hotter version of Betty while a Veronica clone tried to get his attention. Even though it was very dated and inferior to the original, Binky reprint comic books were published in Scandinavia for decades.
    • Archie Comics even had its own Expies of Archie, including That Wilkin Boy and Wilbur.
    • Fast Willie Jackson was an African-American Archie Expy from Fitzgerald Publishing.
    • Atlas/Seaboard comics published Vicki circa 1975... a feature that itself consisted of slightly-updated reprints of another Archie expy, Tippy Teen, which had been published by Tower Comics in the '60s.
    • Archie is also an Expy himself, being heavily-based off of Andy Hardy, a popular character played by Mickey Rooney at the time.

I feel like this needs a little more context.

  • The Colleen Coover character Bandette was inspired by the French costumed heroine Fantômette.

No confirmation on whether or not this was deliberate.

More than one character, suggest cut.

  • Kirk "Man-Bat" Langstrom is to Curt 'The Lizard' Connors. Really, regardless of where each character ended up, the only difference between their origins is the specific ailment they were trying to cure and the specific animal they were working on.

No confirmation of it this was deliberate.

Seems ok, if the name can be taken as a sign it was deliberate.

  • Number 13, a strip about a supernatural family of monsters in the Anthology Comic The Beano was The Munsters. Also Kat and Kanary is Sylvester and Tweety from Looney Tunes. The character Joe Jitsu from the 00s seems to be an expy of an earlier character entitled Karate Sid from the 80s.

Needs some expansion.

Needs expansion, but I believe it is true.

  • Action Comics #421 had a one-off character Captain Strong, a balding, muscly sailor who gets his super-strength from eating a green plant...

Not sure.

  • In the Catwoman story "Selina's Big Score", Stark is a blatant Expy of Parker, Villain Protagonist of a series of crime novels by Richard Stark. He also looks like Lee Marvin, who played Parker (renamed Walker) in the film adaptation of the first novel, Point Blank. (Darwyn Cooke, who wrote and drew the story, later went on to officially adapt the Parker novels to the comic medium.)

Seems legit.

Sounds plausible but needs expansion.

  • The Crimson Avenger and his sidekick Wing started off as thinly-veiled Expies of The Green Hornet and Kato, but then evolved into Expies of Batman and Robin after superheroes started becoming more popular.

IDK if a character can turn into an expy after the fact, but I suppose the characterization changing does not alter the fact the were expys originally. Needs expansion though.

Seems good, could use some expansion (like how are they similar a lot of these entries leave that out)

  • Diabolik had a major series of expies. Interestingly, these expies lost their readers and ended publication by staying true to Diabolik's initial noir while Diabolik and the only surviving expy (Paperinik) moved to other genres (Diabolik to crime fiction and Paperinik to superhero).

Zero context.

  • Marvel Comics' Donyell Taylor, originally codenamed Bandit, is an Expy of Marvel's own Gambit, a fact exploited shamelessly by an issue of Gambit's eponymous series when Bandit turns out to be romantically involved with Gambit's ex-wife Belladonna.

Entry needs some re-writing, but it seems legit.

No real context, cannot even tell if that is meant to be a joke or not : Plus the two characters are very different.

  • Lee, the main character of Peter David's Fallen Angel is an Expy of Linda Danvers, protagonist of David's previous run on Supergirl. In fact, David did his best to fuel speculation that the characters were one and the same until the book's second volume, in which he chronicled Lee's origins. Later on, he introduced Lin, yet another expy of Linda Danvers, who can in fact be considered Linda in everything but name. Likewise, the God figure in the series is a small girl dressed in a tennis motif and carrying a tennis racket, which makes her an expy of Wally, the god figure in David's Supergirl who was a young boy who carried a baseball bat.

Sounds fine.

  • John Byrne's college newspaper strip Gay Guy! had a villain called Charisma, whom no man could resist except... well, guess. Byrne liked the character concept so much that Karisma showed up on the Fantastic Four's doorstep a decade and a half later.

Probably fine.

Probably fine.

  • Ghost Rider villain Skinbender is plainly designed to heavily resemble Sailor Venus; true to this inspiration, she falls in love with Ghost Rider when they meet.

Sounds fine.

  • During the Golden Age, Green Arrow was given many similarities to Batman, right down to the Arrow-Car, Arrow-Cave, and a teen sidekick in Speedy (who is really just like Robin only a junky).

Not sure, I do think there were a lot of deliberate similarities due to Batman's popularity, but I am not sure that is why he was created.

  • In a rather unusual example, in Marvel's Incredible Hercules and later, in Incredible Hulks, Zeus served as an expy for God. That is, the Judaeo-Christian God. Zeus, previously portrayed as distinctly unimpressive, especially next to his intelligent and scheming wife, became considerably more imperious - and when put on trial, threw the "angry at God" argument back into the faces of his accusers. When the Hulk confronted Zeus, the context was somewhat awkward if Zeus is taken as himself, but perfectly logical when read as God.
    • Mocked by Zeus himself. Hulk's reason for confronting him was that he wanted Zeus to help his family. As Zeus comments: "Offering yourself as a sacrifice. Dying for other people's sins. Wrong religion." bitchslaps

Uuuuhh, I am not so sure about this one.

  • Invincible is full of them, mostly minor background characters but a few have been important recurring characters. The title character's father Omni-Man starts out as an Expy of Superman (but 10 issues in, his plot becomes Beware the Superman). The original Global Guardians team were all Expies of the Justice League until they were killed by Omni-Man and a more original team took over. Expies of Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, and Robin remained important supporting characters longer than the rest. Cecil is Nick Fury but just barely managed to keep his eye.

Could use some more context.

  • Ragged Robin of The Invisibles, is similar to Crazy Jane from Grant Morrison's Crazy Jane from his run on Doom Patrol. According to Morrison himself, they're the same person in a different universe. More of this on The Other Wiki. Although Ragged Robin does diverge from Crazy Jane and he invented a completely new Backstory for her.

Sounds good.

  • There was one issue of Justice League of America written in 2000 by Greg Weisman, in which the League travels to Paris and meets a clan of gargoyles living in Notre Dame cathedral, all of whom are clear Expies of the main cast of Weisman's cult classic TV show Gargoyles. There's the leader, "Behemoth" (Goliath), his ex-lover "Diabolique" (Demona), his daughter "Angelique" (Angela), his second-in-command "Montmarte" (Brooklyn), Angelique's lover "Montparnasse" (Broadway), the diminutive smart guy "Champs-Élysées" (Lexington), the team mentor "Seine" (Hudson), the Team Pet "Left Bank" (Bronx), and Behemoth's Evil Twin "Thomeheb" (Thailog).

Good.

  • When the teen supervillain Kid Karnevil attempted to infiltrate the Justice Society Of America, he did so by posing as a patriotic superhero named the All-American Kid. All-American Kid's costume and backstory were extremely similar to those of Bucky, the sidekick of Captain America.

Not sure.

Recommend cut.

  • Maximum Press characters Law and Order bear a strong resemblance to Marvel's Cloak & Dagger.

Zero context.

  • One story in The Maze Agency featured a detectived named Senor Lobo, whom writer Mike Barr has acknowledged was a deliberate homage to Hercule Poirot.

Needs expansion.

Not sure that counts.

Not a copy, recommend cut.

  • Planetary by Warren Ellis contains a large number of Captains Ersatz, but the minor character of Jack Carter undergoes a remarkable transformation during the story in which he appears. He is initially introduced as a Captain Ersatz for John Constantine (who Ellis had written but did not create), but in the final panels of the story mutates into a true Expy of Spider Jerusalem from Ellis's Transmetropolitan (who himself is a No Celebrities Were Harmed of Hunter S Thompson).
    • Credit for this actually goes to the artist, John Cassaday. According to Ellis, he only told Cassaday to draw Jack Carter with a shaved head and tattoos, and it was Cassaday who decided to draw him exactly like Spider Jerusalem. This makes Carter one of the rare Expies created as a prank.

Recommend cut.

Not sure, I know they are very similar though. Maybe some expantion?

  • Queen and Country is, as writer Greg Rucka fully acknowledges, heavily influenced by The Sandbaggers. Not every character is an Expy, but Paul Crocker and Tom Wallace are especially obvious as expies of Neil Burnside and Willie Caine, respectively.

Needs some more context.

  • Back in the Golden Age, the popularity of Robin led to the creation of an endless stream of similar child sidekicks. Green Arrow's sidekick Speedy and Captain America's sidekick Bucky would be the most prominent examples, but there are tons of others like Pinky the Whiz Kid, Wing, Sandy the Golden Boy, Toro and Captain Marvel Jr. The Silver Age would bring us Aqualad, Wonder Girl and Supergirl, and the trend continues to this day.
    • Lampshaded in the Teen Titans animated series, where Speedy's similarities to Robin were greatly played up (including giving Speedy an "S" crest on his chest like Robin's "R" symbol) for comedic effect.
      • Taken even further in Batman: The Brave and the Bold, where Speedy was given Robin's speech patterns and mannerisms from the 60's Adam West Batman show. He was prone to using dated expressions like "Golly" and frequently shouted things like "Holy involuntary acrobatics!" during battle.
    • In a specific case of expiness, one of the Robins, Jason Todd, and Bucky experienced very similar plot lines at the exact same time. Both characters had a "deader than dead" status, yet were brought back from the dead as initially villainous, and later anti-heroic versions of themselves. This similarity was furthered in The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, wherein Bucky was resurrected via a Cosmic Retcon similar to the one that allowed Jason Todd's return in the comics. As an additional Casting Gag, Bucky was voiced by Scott Menville, who voiced Robin in Teen Titans and a few Batman adaptations.

Speedy is very similar to Robin and DC does lampshade this a lot, but the kid sidekick thing is an achetype. I am pretty sure this does not count.

  • Marvel/Star Comics' Royal Roy was basically an Expy of Harvey Comics' Richie Rich, back when the latter company wasn't publishing any books in the early 1980s. It was even handled by the same artist/writer team that created Richie Rich.

Good.

  • When Jack Kirby and Joe Simon took over DC's Sandman book, they immediately made him more like their old assignment (Captain America), right down to giving him an Expy of Bucky in "Sandy the Golden Boy."

Not sure, but does not seem correct.

  • Not too long ago, during Marvel's Dark Reign event, the "Sinister Spider-Man" title (Mac Gargan's Venom posing as Spider-Man) introduced us to Doctor Everything, a pretty blatant expy of Watchmen's Dr. Manhattan, right down to his....disturbing penchant for nudity.

Haha, recommend keep.

Second bullet is no good, first seems legit.

  • In a probably deliberate example, since the character is a Redeeming Replacement for one of Spider-Man's worst enemies, Phil Urich the heroic Green Goblin is an expy of Peter Parker. Urich is an Unlucky Everydude who works for the Daily Bugle and has an Uncle Ben just like Peter (although Urich's doesn't get killed). In the Spider Girl series, the two characters are close friends.

IDK, probably deliberate?? Matching backgrounds seems deliberate though.

  • Lana Lang essentially served as a teenaged Expy of Lois Lane in the Superboy comics.

I think this is legit, but it could use expansion.

The orginization on this is terrible and needs a rewrite. Superman is not a close copy, cut him. Second bullet seems fine. Third should be separated into in individual examples with context if they are legit. Superman expys are tricky business because Superman is sort of his own archetype so there are naturally a lot of similar heros, but there are undeniably deliberate expys as well. I do not think Goku is an expy of Superman.

  • When Alan Moore began work on Watchmen, the plan was to use all of the characters DC purchased from Charlton Comics, but editors ultimately put the kibosh on that, so he had to create new ones.
    • The Comedian is an expy of Peacemaker.
      • He also looks a lot like Bucky in his Minuteman days who somehow grew into a wise-cracking, cigar smoking, woman beating version of Captain America, with a bit of Wildcat and a pinch of Nick Fury, not to mention The Killing Joke Joker.
    • Hollis Mason/the first Nite Owl is an expy of the first Blue Beetle, Dan Garrett.
    • Dan Dreiberg/the second Nite Owl is an expy of the second Blue Beetle, Ted Kord.
    • Doctor Manhattan is an expy Of Captain Atom.
      • There are also elements of Superman, a fact even commented on by characters in the story. His origin as a simple meek scientist caught in a science experiment echoes that of The Incredible Hulk and other Marvel origins, putting a quantum spin to their I Love Nuclear Power origin stories.
    • Ozymandias is an expy of Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt.
      • Though there's also a bit of Reed Richards, Tony Stark and Bruce Wayne in him.
    • Rorschach is an expy of The Question and Mr A.
      • Moore also puts in elements of Batman noting that "he would be considered a nutjob in real life" and in another interview he clarified Rorschach as "Batman without the excuses".
        • There's more than a little of Travis Bickle in his journal entries, too. (Also confirmed by Moore.)
    • Silhouette is an expy of Nightshade.
    • Sally Juspeczyk/the first Silk Spectre is an expy of both Dinah Drake Lance/the first Black Canary and the Phantom Lady.
    • Laurie Juspeczyk/the second Silk Spectre is an expy of both Dinah Laurel Lance/the second Black Canary and the Phantom Lady.

This entry is in desperate needs of a clean up. The characters are confirmed expys however if some of them are meant to stand in for more than one character they should be cut. I feel like some of the extra characters thrown in there are just other similar characters though.

  • The Marvel Mangaverse iteration of the Fantastic Four made each member of the cast a parallel of a character from Neon Genesis Evangelion. The Thing was Shinji, the Human Torch (a redheaded teen girl in this continuity) was Asuka, the Invisible Woman was Rei, Mr. Fantastic was a combination of Gendo and Kaji, Agatha Harkness was a combination of Misato and Ritsuko, and Alicia Masters was Maya the Bridge Bunny.
    • And if it wasn't explicit enough, the later New Mangaverse series redesigned the Human Torch so that she looked even more like Asuka.

Well Mr. Fantastic is out, clearly. Not sure about the rest, this really needs context because it sounds far-fetched.

  • Happened all the way back during the creation of the X-Men by Stan 'The Man' Lee himself. When creating the original team of five, Lee decided he wanted to re-use the character of the Human Torch, but with ice powers instead of fire. The youngest member of the team, and also the most irresponsible and hot-headed, with the opposite super power...
    • In recent X-Men comics, Hellion has become an Expy of Quentin "Kid Omega" Quire; Both have very powerful psychic abilities and inflammatory personalities to begin with, but Hellion's adopted Quentin's signature striped sweater-vest and started hanging out with Glob Herman, one of Quentin's old flunkies (and the only living member of the Omega Gang to still have his mutant powers). He's also spouting mutant supremacist rhetoric and telling baseline humans to "get back to your caves, apemen!"
      • Ironically, while this has been going on, Quentin himself has been moving into a more heroic role as a member of the X-Men proper.
    • There's also Onyxx and Rockslide, two X-Men who have roughly the same powers (being giant rock men) and only a few strong physical differences (different colors, Onyxx has a helmet and is slightly bulkier, slightly different costumes). It's to the point that, seeing them on the same page, you could think one was an artist/colorist error meant to represent the other. This is lampshaded a few times when they're shown to be casual acquaintences who think highly of one another.
      • Both happen to also look like a Palette Swap of The Thing, who almost certainly inspired their creation. The only difference power-wise is that Rockslide can fire off body parts; Onyxx and the Thing can't.
      • Kieron Gillen has said (on House To Astonish) that Teon from Generation Hope is a character from his Warhammer comic reinvented as a superhero.
      • Abigail Brand's Lovable Rogue half-brother Lothi in the S.W.O.R.D spin-off has major similarities of appearance and personality to Tank Girl's boyfriend Booga. About the only difference is that he's green.
      • The Brood are pretty blatant Expies of the Xenomorphs from the Alien series. This is Lampshaded in an issue of X-Factor where Wolfsbane calls the Brood a bunch of "Lame-o 'Alien' knock-offs".
        • Made even more obvious in one issue of X-Men where Kitty manages to toss one Brood out of an airlock, a la Ripley. John Byrne originally drew Kitty to look like a young Signourney Weaver.
    • Professor Xavier and Magneto are expies for Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcolm X, respectively, a fact explicitly referenced by Bryan Singer in interviews for the first movie.

This entry needs heavy rewriting. The first bullet is probably fine. Hellion being Quentin I am unsure of, he was not invented to be Quentin, he just moved into Quentin's role as Quentin moved out of it. Onyxx and Rockslide are probably fine, but could use confirmation of creator intent, especially for whether or not they were deliberately based on the Thing. Teon needs expansion, based on context I have no idea who that even is. Entry about the Booga expy needs expansion. Not sure about the Brood, can a made-up species be an expy of another species? Last one is wrong, the two's opposing politics are deliberate similar, but that is it, the backstories and superpowers and everything are original.

Seems legit but needs expansion.

  • British comics examples:
    • During the 1970's and 1980's, IPC Magazines would often copy characters from DC Thomson's humour comics. Examples include 'Soldier Spoon' (a Corporal Clott expy), and 'Tricky Dicky' (a Roger the Dodger expy.) It may be worth noting that DC Thomson later made their own character called Tricky Dicky, who was similar to 'Joker' from IPC's Whizzer And Chips.
    • During the late 1980s and early 1990s, The Dandy made expies of some of IPC's characters, particularly those from Whizzer and Chips. An example of this is 'King Dom- the Dandy lion', who was an expy of IPC's own 'King of the Jungle', as well as an annual-only strip called 'Parental Pests' featuring a cast of characters who were shameless clones of those from IPC's 'The Big Kidds'.
    • An example from the same publisher was Challenge Charlie from IPC's Valiant which was an expy of the earlier Dare-a-Day Davy from Odham's Pow! (Odhams was taken over by IPC). Both strips were drawn by Ken Reid and on a few occassions the same scripts were used which lead to a couple of Challenge Charlie comic strips which looked suspiciously similiar to earlier Dare-a-Day Davy comic strips.

Not sure why these are organized this way, but they seem legit to me.

  • An oft-mocked facet of early Image Comics was that every team seemed to have a Wolverine expy, who had blades on his hands, a bad attitude, and a mysterious past. And while it wasn't every team (Gen 13 and Stormwatch being the most notable exceptions), this was true for most of them — Youngblood had both Cougar and Troll, Youngblood's "training squad" Bloodpool had Wylder, Cyberforce had Ripclaw, Wild CA Ts had Warblade, Bloodstrike had Deadlock, and Codename: Strykeforce had Killrazor. Deadlock was probably the most obvious (and that's really saying something), since his first costume featured a mask nearly identical to Wolverine's.
    • Interestingly, Ripclaw, Warblade, and Deadlock are still appearing in comics as of February 2013, but have very little in common with Wolverine; Ripclaw's powers have changed from "clawed hands" to "shooting spikes", Warblade is a sadistic villain, and Deadlock is a Legacy Character with a more unique costume, Invisibility powers, and despite remaining a Sociopathic Hero, a much more stable personality.

Dunno, the Wolverine knock-off were all very clearly Wolverine knock-offs, but they had calculated differences. Mostly they just were not very original.

  • Rob Liefeld is infamous for those. During his run on New Mutants and X-Force, he created Thornn and Feral- Wolfsbane Expys, Kane- A Cable Expy (which he also created) but younger, and Copycat- a Mystique Expy. Many many of his Image Comics characters are blatantly ripping off various Marvel characters as well, including ones he himself created.
    • Most notable is Deadpool, who was intended to be an Expy of Teen Titans villain Deathstroke, but was re-tooled into the lovable maniac he is now.
    • He's even admitted that Youngblood was simply a rejected Teen Titans pitch, right down to the redheaded archer Shaft being Speedy/Arsenal and Diehard being a S.T.A.R. Labs android.
    • The New 52 character Niko was initially stated to be Cheshire in solicits for Grifter. This apparently changed before the issue hit stands, resulting in the character having a different backstory while still retaining a similar costume and appearance to Cheshire.
    • S.P.I.C.E. from his Fighting American run is a clear expy of Rikki Barnes from his earlier Captain America run, right down to having an extremely similar jacket and set of goggles.

Most of these are legit, but could use expansion.

  • The Fighting American himself was an expy of Captain America, though he dates back to the 1950's and was created by Jack Kirby.
    • Oddly enough, he received his own expy in the form of the Fighting Yank during his AC Comics series. The Fighting Yank was redesigned and given a costume almost identical to that of the Fighting American.
    • Even more oddly, Captain America himself is an Expy of a now obscure character, The Shield, also developed by Jack Kirby, and Joe Simon.
    • Commander Steel was another Captain America Expy. Justice League Unlimited Lampshaded this by having the second Steel mimic Cap's iconic shield throw.

Needs reorganization, but I think these are legit.

Well ok I guess, but someone needs to explain how because they seem very different to me.

  • An eight page Justice League comic story in which Booster Gold, Fire and The Flash(Wally West) were spying on Blue Beetle's disasterous blind date cast the four heroes as expys of the cast of Seinfeld: Booster as Jerry, Beetle as George, Fire as Elaine and Flash as Kramer.

This does not sound like an example at all.

Sounds good.

edited 2nd May '14 9:21:21 AM by rexpensive

MagBas Mag Bas from In my house
May 2nd 2014 at 4:55:38 PM

Okay, i removed the characters listed as "suggest cut".

May 2nd 2014 at 5:25:24 PM

Can we do these one at a time? Megaposts are impossible to read.

ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
May 3rd 2014 at 12:29:24 AM

I have a few questions:

What do you call a character based on an older character from the same franchise?

the situation's like this. Let's say there's this show Bob's Troperia, the main character is Alice, who is an Action Girl Knight in Shining Armor.

then comes Bob's Troperia 2: The Second Coming, different setting and time, same themes and verse. there's this Private Investigator Alex. she HE is very similar to Alice, in backstory, and is also a Knight Inshining Armor archetype. Word of God hasn't confirmed if he's based on Alice yet.




Do we need Suspiciously Similar Character? this is practically the only usage Expy gets here.

edited 3rd May '14 1:06:25 AM by ShanghaiSlave

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
May 3rd 2014 at 12:36:18 AM

No, because that would basically be free-for-all speculative nonsense.

SeptimusHeap from Bern, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
May 3rd 2014 at 1:01:41 AM

Humans have habits to see patterns where none exist. So such a trope would be completely meaningless as far as examples go.

ShanghaiSlave Giver of Lame Names from YKTTW Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
May 3rd 2014 at 1:07:18 AM

[up] so we just clean up Expy and ignore the "trope" it is misused as? okay then.

Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros
Cleric of Banjo
May 3rd 2014 at 3:10:37 PM

A couple of thoughts on examples I may have added/support(ed):

With Phil Urich of Spider-Man, I think I added the example out of a perceived similarity in the characters, but I may have been on to something. I can't find it, but there was an article I read discussing how in the Superior Spider-Man series, the now evil Urich was being presented as an Evil Counterpart of Peter Parker, as a counterpart to the "Super Spider-Man"- former villain Doctor Octopus playing hero using Peter's body. Notably, before the Superior Spider-Man exposes Urich's crimes, we are treated to Urich's POV, where he thinks to himself, "With Great Responsibility Comes Great Power."

Also, with the Cowboy Bebop versus the Lupin III ones, it is something I've seen commented on by various people and which seems plausible (also plausible is a degree of expiness between one or both of those and The Big O)- not sure if there's any Word of God though.

edited 3rd May '14 3:12:44 PM by Hodor

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
DoktorvonEurotrash Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
May 19th 2014 at 1:19:20 PM

[up]I don't know all the characters mentioned in that example, but those I do recognise sound very tenuous. (Seriously, what is the similarity between Mako and Dick Grayson other than "both of them are orphans"?) There are quite a few Zero Context Examples there as well.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
May 19th 2014 at 2:03:07 PM

None of the Korra ones sound convincing.

I also disagree on Little John being an expy of Baloo. They're both Bears — similarity. They're both Big Fun — sort of. Baloo is far more irresponsible than Little John is. They're both the Lancer to the Hero: No. Little John is, Baloo is more of a Mentor/Big Brother character than the second-in-command or foil. If Baloo were the Lancer to anyone, it would be Bagheera, not Mowgli. They're both voiced by Phil Harris: coincidence. They look alike: a result of reusing old cels, yes, but it was done as a cost-saving measure.

edited 19th May '14 2:04:46 PM by Madrugada

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
May 19th 2014 at 2:48:06 PM

The Lupin vs Bebop thing is something older than this site.

If they're not deemed acceptable (with this checklist, they are not acceptable), I can keep them removed from the wiki.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Madrugada Zzzzzzzzzz Relationship Status: In season
Zzzzzzzzzz
May 19th 2014 at 3:17:09 PM

Looks like all of them are saying Bebop is an Homage to Lupin, not what we've defined Expy as. Putting that note on the page (commented out) might make keeping it off the page easier.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
MagBas Mag Bas from In my house
May 19th 2014 at 4:57:32 PM

Well, at least the citation to the inspiration of Spike in the Cowboy Bebop wiki goes to an interview with Kawamoto Toshiriho that mentions the idea of Cowboy Bebop be inspired in Lupin III only to mention that he guess that it is more similar to spy movies of the 70s. Here are his exact words: " With regards to inspiration for COWBOY BEBOP, it's been a few years... 1996 or so? I didn't have much to go on: I took it from various movies and my own ideas. Some people have said that it looks similar to LUPIN III, and some directors said that as well, but I think it looks more like the spy movies of the '70s. The movie takes place between episodes 22-23, so we kept it the same. For the special characters for the movie, the director mentioned a couple live actors as inspiration, so in that case the movie had some live models as inspiration."

edited 19th May '14 5:02:40 PM by MagBas

Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
May 19th 2014 at 6:13:46 PM

If no one objects, I'm going to axe all the Korra entries except for Hokoda and Tonraq (and also move the examples from the Korra page).

crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
May 19th 2014 at 6:28:20 PM

While he was a Creator for the movie, the Creator is Shinichiro Watanabe.

That said, I can't find the entry you said you found.

edited 19th May '14 6:37:37 PM by crazysamaritan

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

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