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GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#1: Apr 2nd 2023 at 2:36:14 PM

Note: This thread was proposed by FernandoLemon.

Sequelphobic has mostly existed as a way to complain about the concept of sequels existing and about people who complain about those things. It's also barely thriving, as mentioned in Tropes Needing TRS: it only has 23 wicks, only 7 of which are in YMMV pages, likely due to a poor crosswicking. A wick check (which checks both the off-page wicks and the on-page examples) shows that only 4 of the on-page examples were written in a neutral tone, with everything else being either complaining, or misuse for other tropes (such as Sequelitis, Contested Sequel, They Changed It, Now It Sucks! and It's the Same, Now It Sucks!).

Solution: Cut it; it barely has inbounds anyway.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#3: Apr 2nd 2023 at 2:37:06 PM

Paging ~FernandoLemon to the thread. Anyway, I agree with cutting it for not thriving (the 24th wick is from the TRS Queue, which will be removed in a bit) and being redundant.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition (Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
FernandoLemon Nobody Here from Argentina (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: In season
#5: Apr 2nd 2023 at 2:48:41 PM

[up][up] Not thriving is barely an issue since the crosswicking was done improperly. The big issue is that it serves no purpose outside of complaining.

Edited by FernandoLemon on Apr 2nd 2023 at 6:54:27 AM

I'd like to apologize for all this.
costanton11 Since: Mar, 2016
#6: Apr 2nd 2023 at 2:49:25 PM

Cut. Seems redundant to the other tropes.

FernandoLemon Nobody Here from Argentina (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: In season
#7: Apr 2nd 2023 at 2:54:45 PM

(wrong thread)

[down] I [nja]'d you on that one.

Edited by FernandoLemon on Apr 2nd 2023 at 6:55:32 AM

I'd like to apologize for all this.
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition (Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#10: Apr 2nd 2023 at 3:15:23 PM

I think there’s definitely a current cynicism about IP dominating the media landscape, but if we were to have a page for something like that, it wouldn’t be limited to sequels, wouldn’t have a game-centric description, and would probably have no examples for being Flame Bait.

As is, cut this one.

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
Adept (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#15: Apr 2nd 2023 at 7:20:37 PM

Calling thread in favor of cutting Sequelphobic because we have enough votes and the trope isn't thriving.

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 2nd 2023 at 10:20:42 AM

Macron's notes
FernandoLemon Nobody Here from Argentina (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: In season
#16: Apr 2nd 2023 at 7:45:30 PM

Re-posting the wick check, so that it's archived.


Off-page wicks

  • Out of 23 wicks...
    • 3 are in-universe
    • 1 is complaining
    • 8 are misuse, zero-context examples and potholes
    • 11 are indexes and other meta stuff

    In-universe and discussed examples 

    Complaining 

    ZCE, misuse and potholes 
  • FranchiseKiller.Video GamesMaster of Orion and Master of Orion 2 are classics in the turn-based strategy genre. A toxic combination of Executive Meddling, Sequelphobic developers, and some other bad decisions resulted in a Master Of Orion 3 that bears a striking resemblance to doing one's taxes and is about as much fun. The game bombed hard on release, and since then there has been little hope that the series will be revived. Brad Wardell of Stardock expressed interest in making a fourth game in 2008, but his comments were mere speculation and there has been no follow-up. The rights to the series were later acquired by World of Tanks developers Wargaming, so the series might live again, for the time being. A fourth game, helpfully titled just Master of Orion, was finally released in 2016. While not too badly received, it was generally criticised for being a functional but bland game that added nothing new to either the series or the genre as a whole, which had seen something of a revival around that time. Pothole
  • YMMV.Backyard Sports — This was IGN's reaction to the series.
    • If you really want to get specific on how the Sequelitis started, the company who had started the series, Humongous Entertainment, went bankrupt after a failed experiment. All the rights were sold to Atari, Inc. after 2002. They made all of the 3D titles, and have caused decline in quality ever since. The first bulletpoint is ZCE, the second seems completely unrelated
  • YMMV.Dark Castle — MacUser's product index infamously dismissed the first sequel as "more of the same." This is It's the Same, Now It Sucks!
  • YMMV.Godzilla 2014 — The film got flak for it despite being released a full 10 years after Godzilla: Final Wars. ZCE, what is "it" in this context?
  • YMMV.Master Of Orion — The designers of MoO 3 were emphatic that they were making "Master of Orion 3, not Master of Orion 2.5." In retrospect, MoO 2.5 may possibly have been a lot better. This sounds like They Changed It, Now It Sucks!
  • YMMV.Nintendo WarsContested Sequel: Days of Ruin certainly evokes this. Some fans appreciated the deeper plot and the reduced emphasis on CO Powers and abilities, allowing tactical decision-making to return to the forefront of gameplay (especially welcome after the broken mess of CO Power spam that was Dual Strike) while others derided the game for straying too far from the original series with its Darker and Edgier setting, making it feel more like a cheap knockoff than a true sequel. Many of the latter camp even declared that it would be garbage, despite not knowing anything else about it. Pothole
  • YMMV.Rorschach 2020Win Back the Crowd: The series began with a very uphill battle to surmount. Problem one: it's another spinoff of Watchmen, a property with a greatly sequelphobic fanbase, and coming in the wake of the divisive Before Watchmen and Doomsday Clock series. Problem two: it's written by Tom King, one of the most controversial comic book writers of The New '10s, who came off the substantially divisive Batman (Tom King) and the near-universally reviled Heroes in Crisis. However, while the series' very existence is still divisive, much like with the HBO television series, readers ended up liking it more than expected, with Rorschach opting to instead be a politically-driven commentary on the impact of Watchmen's iconography through the aftermath several decades into the future. Otherwise-sequelphobic fans have welcomed the series more for generally avoiding the usual pitfalls that plagued other Watchmen sequels (namely attempting to alter or override any of the plot or characters from the original series) and instead focused on telling a solid crime thriller which just to happens to have a lot to say about its titular character. Pothole
  • YMMV.Watchmen 2019: Two wicks, both are potholes but generally explain the concept okay

    Indexes and "see also" 

On-page examples

  • Out of 27 examples...
    • 2 are in-universe
    • 4 are written in a fairly neutral tone
    • 8 are complaining
    • 13 are misuse

    In-universe and discussed examples 

    Neutral tone examples 
  • Most fans of the Terminator franchise hold only the first two movies in high regard. The second movie tied up the franchise nicely; even if the ending was somewhat open-ended, the point was that there was now hope in a world with one of the bleakest futures imaginable. For any sequel to pick up where that film left off, however, a Happy Ending Override is inevitable—which is exactly why Rise of the Machines, Salvation and especially Dark Fate became Contested Sequels. For there to be more Terminators, the bleak future has to be restored in some form or another and the message of the second movie, "There is no fate but what we make for ourselves", has to be ignored.
  • This trope is the reason Masahiro Sakurai stepped down as president of HAL Labs. He was tired of people demanding Kirby sequels (even if the game was a sequel). He was even hesitant to work on Brawl, but decided to continue making Super Smash Bros. games once Iwata convinced him to.
  • Similar to the Left 4 Dead scenario, when Sonic the Hedgehog 4 was officially announced, only after the release of a fraction of a minute of gameplay footage, perhaps out of habit from the lackluster games before it, fans wanted to boycott Sonic 4. By buying Sonic 1.
  • This applies to video game hardware as well as software. Nintendo gets a lot of criticism for giving Product Facelifts to its handheld systems (to the point where some people claim that the early relatively poor performance of the Nintendo 3DS is due to people mistaking it for another redesign of the DS). Even entirely new video game systems get complaints from people who don't want to have to spend money on a new system to play new games if the older console doesn't get enough support as a Daddy System.

    Complaining 
  • Certain members of the Puella Magi Madoka Magica fandom freaked out when it was announced that the last part of an upcoming movie trilogy will be a continuation of the anime's events. An oft-used argument is that the original ending was perfect and adding a sequel will ruin it forever. For one, you shouldn't wick a Darth Wiki item
  • Given how Watchmen is considered a Sacred Cow in many circles, some fans dismiss any continuation as little more than lazy cash-grabs. Granted there is some legitimacy to this sentiment as DC Comics have been creating new sequels and adaptations of Watchmen against the wishes of Alan Moore in order to hold on to the property. However, some fans still choose to ignore both HBO series and comic sequel despite their critical acclaim simply because Moore isn't involved in them. "They instantly dismiss something as bad but it's justified"
  • While Godzilla has seen a large number of entries in the franchise, with all three series having periods where there was one movie per year and catching some form of Sequelitis as an inevitable result, the series has become increasingly prone to this viewpoint, even by some within the fanbase - even Godzilla (2014) managed to get flak for it despite being released a full ten years after Godzilla: Final Wars, despite not being a sequel in the first place. This was especially noticeable in the press coverage surrounding the film, which rarely referenced the sequels directly and often dismissed them to focus on the artistic merit of the original film, despite the sequels' obvious influence on the 2014 film's approach to the title character.
  • Video game review site GameSpot is a major offender, as "too much like the original" is one of their most common complaints. Particularly bad was giving Metroid Prime a 9.7, and then giving Metroid Prime 3: Corruption an 8.5. Complaining about reviews
    • More reasonably, IGN's review rated Prime 3 a 9.5, only .3 points lower than the first game, and openly stated it would have gotten those extra three tenths if Prime hadn't done it first, as innovation counts for something.
    • They even do it with Expansions. Check Heroes of Might and Magic V and watch the score decline despite the new features and overall increase in quality.
    • IGN's worst offense: The original Backyard Basketball on the PC got a 6.5. It deserved the score because the game crashed a lot and the controls were weak. The follow-up on the PS2 improved on everything the original game did, adding nine more playable characters and making the controls like other NBA games; it got the exact same score. This has been a problem with other games in the series too.
  • If a new Fire Emblem game is coming out, you can be sure that reviews are being written which either accuse it of being too difficult and its graphics as not being up to par, the combat systems not adapting the mechanics from the previous games and the graphics not being up to par... or the gameplay not being completely different from the previous installment, and the graphics (despite improvements) still not being up to par.
  • Some game series seem to get this even from quarters that aren't usually Sequelphobic. Dynasty Warriors and any other game in the Warriors series are recurrent offenders, usually on the grounds of It's the Same, Now It Sucks!, despite significant changes in game mechanics, play modes, and various other improvements. An infamous review for Bladestorm The Hundred Years War dismissed it as 'yet another DW buttonmasher by Koei'... despite the fact that Bladestorm was a squad based RTS, not a buttonmasher. On the other hand, Dynasty Warriors Strikeforce suffered from the criticism of They Changed It, Now It Sucks!. Also, I don't get what that opening sentence has to do with anything?
  • There was a variation of this when Left 4 Dead 2 was announced, released one day short of a full year after the first's debut. Fans of Left 4 Dead were furious that the sequel was being worked on before their supposedly promised downloadable content for the original was released. So much so, in fact, that a boycott of several thousand players arose. It didn't play out, though: Valve invited the leaders of the movement to try out L4D2. The two left the HQ speaking very highly of the game, causing their own followers to break into those who changed their minds and those who called their former leaders idiots and wanted to go through with the boycott anyway.
    • That being said, the developers did throw the die-hard L4D1 players a bone, as the second DLC The Passing was released both for the original and the sequel. Coupled with semi-frequent free giveaways of Left 4 Dead 2 and the eventual importation of all the original's content into the sequel, almost all of the fandom sticks with the second. Complaining About People Not Liking the Show, plus it contains a Flame Bait item
  • The Call of Duty franchise has been getting this reaction from both fans and non fans since the one year development cycle began with World At War. Considering the franchise is now popularly considered the exemplar of videogame Sequelitis, this fear was probably justified.
    • The backlash was significant when details of Call of Duty 2013 (now known as Call of Duty: Ghosts) were leaked days after Black Ops II was released.
    • With the pre-release reactions to Infinite Warfare, this trope has hit the other side of the problem. After the trailers, the internet reacted with overwhelming negativity... to it appearing to be too different from the previous games. It's worth pointing out that, for long time fans, Infinite Warfare seems like merely the extreme end of a trend in the series for awhile, and that the overwhelming hate for it is probably more memetic than genuine mass outrage. It's the people who have never much payed attention to the series's usual offerings that see it as finally different enough to be worthy of interest. Notably from critics usually disparaging of the series's Sequelitis traits. But is it really justified? Plus another Flame Bait item

    Misuse 
  • In the 2010s, this attitude started getting directed toward Pixar due to them spending much of the decade creating sequels to their previous animated features rather than starting many new stories, with seven out of ten(!) films released between 2010 and 2019 being sequels. It's certainly a downplayed example as a number of said sequels were either something the Pixar fanbase had clamored for for years (Incredibles 2) and/or were critically acclaimed smash-hits upon release (such as Finding Dory, the two Toy Story sequels, and Incredibles 2 again), but regardless, by the end of the decade the fanbase was growing weary of the sequels and campaigned for Pixar to pursue more original story ideas, especially upon the announcement of the aforementioned Toy Story 4 (which garnered a borderline hostile reaction from the fanbase, which questioned its necessity following 3, until it eventually won over the crowd). When Pixar announced that their list of upcoming movies from Onward...erm, onward were not going to be sequels to any of their previous movies, the Pixar fanbase was quite delighted. Listed as a downplayed example, even though YMMV can't be played with
  • This attitude has mostly come to characterize the the Muppet franchise outside of the fanbase; they'll watch the TV shows and the original films, but for some reason not the sequels or follow-ups. While The Muppet Movie (1979) was a huge hit and is still considered a classic, its follow-up films The Great Muppet Caper (1981) and The Muppets Take Manhattan (1984) did not do nearly as well. The films released after Henson's passing, The Muppet Christmas Carol (1992) and Muppet Treasure Island (1996) did decent business (albeit much better on video than in the theaters), but the failure of Muppets from Space (1999) temporarily ended the Muppets' theatrical career. The franchise was bought by Disney a few years later, who managed to reboot it with The Muppets (2011) to some acclaim, but that film's sequel Muppets Most Wanted (2014) was a box office flop, though well-recieved by fans. Seems to go back and forth between being and not being an example
  • Psycho does have sequels (Psycho II, Psycho III and Psycho IV: The Beginning, all starring Anthony Perkins) but most Alfred Hitchcock purists tend to ignore them. It doesn't help that III and IV are very much Sequelitis. That's Sequelitis, not this trope
  • Star Wars: When Disney bought the rights to Star Wars and announced they were reconfiguring the franchise in 2014 with a new theatrical film trilogy as a sequel to the original and prequel trilogies, some fans were wary. Many people considered the main plot of Star Wars and the story of the Skywalkers to be done after Return of the Jedi. While some works in the old Expanded Universe that tried to continue the story were well-received, others were...not. However, other fans were on-board with the idea. The Sequel Trilogy ended up being massively successful financially (when adjusted for inflation, The Force Awakens is the fourth highest-grossing film ever), although the critical reception has been far more mixed. Subversion?
  • The founding Real-Time Strategy series, Command & Conquer, has legions of anti-fans who hate them for being more of the same, time after time, despite "the same" being just fine. Until Command & Conquer 4 completely changed the game mechanics to not be dependent on base-building and tank rushes. This is It's the Same, Now It Sucks!
  • Despite being in a genre that wasn't represented very well that generation and being the sequel to what is considered one of the best games of all time, Super Mario Galaxy 2 has attracted sequelphobes based on a 90 second trailer, mainly due to apparently being a Mission-Pack Sequel. This is It's the Same, Now It Sucks! and Tainted by the Preview
  • Punch-Out!! for Wii caught some flak for not being different enough from the preceding games... the last one of which came out fifteen years previous. This is It's the Same, Now It Sucks!, plus not actually an example since the game was very well received
  • MacUser rated the old arcade-style platformer Dark Castle 5 out of 5. Beyond Dark Castle had many more levels than the original, new types of levels including side-scrolling flying sequences and vast labyrinths, the transition from a One-Hit-Point Wonder to a health meter, and new items to use such as bombs — yet MacUser gave it only a 3.5, citing disappointment at it being "more of the same". This is It's the Same, Now It Sucks!
  • Averted in the case of Thief II: The Metal Age. While most reviewers couldn't help pointing out the fact that the game looked and played exactly like the original, including the same user interface and end-mission mini-movies, the game was so incredibly good that they generally said this wasn't a problem, as the game improved upon its predecessor in several non-superficial ways. In this case, most reviewers were simply expressing dismay at the fact that the game didn't have graphics that could compete with other modern first-person games and would thus likely be overlooked by the public. And to a large extent, they were right. YMMV can't be played with
  • Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 4 completely changed the layout of story mode and more than tripled the content of the third game, but many gamers refused to give it a chance due to it being the fourth game in a yearly series. In a similar fashion, Proving Ground, which takes place in a whole state (well, three cities and the areas linking them), was not given a chance by many people because of the popularity of Skate. Seems to be more of a Contested Sequel than anything
  • This article comments on the phenomenon, noting that Basketball 2009 is basically the same game as Basketball 2008 and nobody cares. This is It's the Same, Now It Sucks!
  • Master of Orion III shows what happens when the Sequelphobes get what they ask for. The designers said repeatedly that they were making "Master of Orion 3, not Master of Orion 2.5." And they did; they built a totally new game with a new interface, new mechanics, and so on. The result was a bloated monstrosity that ran far over schedule and over budget, and bombed on release. In retrospect, Master of Orion 2.5 would probably have been much better. This is They Changed It, Now It Sucks!
  • Bioshock has this in spades; as soon as the sequel was announced, hardcore fans of the original were saying that the first game was now ruined, and that a sequel was both unnecessary and would somehow cheapen the original. It went From Bad to Worse when it was announced that the sequel was to be developed by 2K Marin rather than Irrational Games, and that it would have multiplayer. Ultimately the game was mostly well-received by critics and fans alike, though to notably less praise than the original thanks to sometimes seeming too similar. It wasn't until BioShock Infinite that the franchise received a sequel universally considered as good or even better than the original. Since BioShock Infinite was well received, this is just a case of Contested Sequel

Edited by FernandoLemon on Apr 2nd 2023 at 11:52:53 AM

I'd like to apologize for all this.
FernandoLemon Nobody Here from Argentina (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: In season
#17: Apr 2nd 2023 at 7:54:35 PM

Double post: I've placed both Laconic.Sequelphobic and Sandbox.Sequelphobic Wick Check on the Cut List and cut most of the wicks; all that remains are four potholes in Mission-Pack Sequel, FranchiseKiller.Video Games, RuinedForever.Video Games Specific and YMMV.Rorschach 2020.

Edited by FernandoLemon on Apr 2nd 2023 at 11:55:06 AM

I'd like to apologize for all this.
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#18: Apr 2nd 2023 at 8:21:30 PM

I just replaced the wicks with plain text. Anyway, locking up.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
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