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UPDATE: Subpage review sandboxes, please contribute with your own notes on what to keep and cut!
The pages for The Nostalgia Critic are not up-to-date with modern wiki standards. While the previous, now-locked TGWTG cleanup thread did address some of these concerns, the page is still incredibly bloated, full of opinion-based editing, fan speculation (not just on the show but on the creators' personal lives), taking one-off jokes as canon in a low-continuity series, and treating obscure trivia like common knowledge to the casual fanbase. The page also has not been as consistently updated as it was in the early 2010s, leaving a lot of outdated examples. There's also the usual review-show issue with In Universe YMMV tropes being listed on the YMMV rather than invoked on the main page, and of course we need to keep a lookout for ROCEJ regarding the controversy.
I mainly wish to address shoehorned, obscure, and/or complainy examples, including cutting down and removing subpages if necessary, so it can be updated to include recent episodes without further bloating. While the show does have more continuity than other shows of its ilk, a lot of entries rely on hard-to-confirm information and/or speculation, or are based in complaint, especially regarding episodes from the first post-reboot season.
Some specific recurring issues:
For a good start, inspired by a Tumblr post on the pagenote though it was more making fun of the subjective opinion of Doug Walker being attractive, which isn't relevant to the cleanup, let's look over Fanservice.The Nostalgia Critic. A lot of entries aren't about deliberate fanservice, but rather using sexuality as a joke, or things like "I saw his butt in one shot!" which feels kind of creepy. Of course, a lot of this is based in the early 2010s when the TGWTG fandom was...a bit different, so it may be more valid than I realize as someone who wasn't in the fandom then.
Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 8th 2020 at 7:10:17 AM
...Yikes. This definitely needs a cleanup. Heck, I'd even say a lot of the examples belong on Fan Disservice more if anything.
Especially the Jurassic Park example. A right nipple? Seriously??
Honesty, I’d be surprised if anything on the Fanservice subpage is salvageable. Just from a quick scroll though, basically all of the examples seem like either joke fanservice or the result of fans weirdly horny for Doug.
^ Yeah, a lot of these examples may be attractive if people find the subject attractive, but Fanservice is not subjective. If the intention is to be comedic or disturbing, then it's not fanservice. It has to be done to pander to the audience. If there's indication that a review has Critic get abused just because there's an audience with that fetish, that's fair (because yes, factually, there is an audience of fans attracted to Doug and company, and there may be times when the show chooses to pander to them); if it's just a dark joke that happened to get fetishized, that's misuse.
For the record, the Jurassic Park example is ZCE, but the context is implied sexuality, albeit as a joke. Context He's eating a slice of pizza with his clothes disheveled, a nipple visible, and complimenting the awesome T-Rex in a manner implying they had sex. It kind of makes sense in context.
There is a Fan Disservice subpage as well...which is also full of misuse (and body shaming).
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 4th 2020 at 9:59:12 AM
Yep. Even a small glance at the examples is giving me a bad case of Squick fever. Should we just cut the page entirely?
Edited by ATricksterArtist on Jul 4th 2020 at 9:56:53 AM
Are any examples salvageable? There are examples where he acknowledges and jokes about having fangirls and showing off for them, which would count. I'm wary to cut the page entirely before trimming it down, especially without mod approval, but the way these pages are used is fetishistic and creepy.
Do non-sexual examples of pandering count for Fanservice as a trope, or is that just Pandering to the Base (which is YMMV)? Because that is something the show does a lot in reviews like Ghost Rider 2 and The Squeakquel (albeit in jest).
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 4th 2020 at 10:13:29 AM
Perhaps we can do a review of both Fanservice and Fan Disservice pages (maybe in a Sandbox)?
That sounds good. Might not be the last subpages we have to cover, but they're the first things that stuck out as unnecessary.
Do we have a Fanservice cleanup? I'd be surprised if this kind of misuse wasn't present in other pages.
The Characters pages also need review. The page for the Critic himself is broken into three subpages, and as long-running as the show is I don't believe all of them would fit.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 4th 2020 at 10:26:37 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Fanservice had a cleanup. Tropes like that can be prone to misuse and gushing.
Looking over Irony.The Nostalgia Critic and IronicEcho.The Nostalgia Critic and we definitely have another contender for cleanup. A lot of Irony is just talking about meta contradictions to the show, which is more like Trivia, while most of the Ironic Echo examples are just generic statements that are extremely unlikely to be deliberate, or a misuse that would better fit Call-Back if anything.
(Honestly there is an issue with this page troping real people, since it lumps in a lot of examples from out-of-character spinoffs like the Real Thoughts series, or other Doug projects under CA that don't have works pages. I almost feel like those meta examples should be put on another subpage if not cut entirely. There are also some examples on these pages that fit Tamara's personal channel, which should probably be moved to Tamara's Never Seen if anything.)
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 5th 2020 at 3:16:13 PM
Seems good. I suppose both Fanservice pages will get a review as well.
The Nightmare Fuel page might need some looking at as well.
Yeah, that got attention in the original TGWTG cleanup thread too, but it's still pretty bloated with what's essentially Fridge Horror. This one definitely needs to be sandboxed because it's too long to go through every example in one go.
The other YMMV pages will probably require the same, though they at least have the benefit of being organized by year (though the examples still have issues with gushing about Critic or even Doug as a person). If the Nightmare Fuel page is still lengthy even after cutting misuse, then it should probably be organized the same way.
I made the Fan (Dis)service sandbox. We can make other sandboxes for likewise lengthy pages.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 4th 2020 at 11:30:02 AM
There is a Nightmare Fuel cleanup thread, but that's in Long Term Projects. Do we move Nightmare Fuel-related content there or stick to here?
(Also, can anyone make edits on the cleanup sandbox? I'm still somewhat new to this.)
Edited by ATricksterArtist on Jul 4th 2020 at 11:34:39 AM
Don't worry, I'm also new at this- this is my first cleanup and my first sandbox. But yes, this is able to be edited by anyone working in this cleanup thread. Comment next to an example whether it should stay or go. Bold the text so it stands out among the example.
I don't think the NC page has made it to that cleanup thread yet, surprisingly. Let's start working on the page here, especially since there are some issues common among all the NC pages including the NF one, and if we struggle to decide on whether an example is objectively wrong, we can take it to the NF cleanup. As that cleanup says:
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 4th 2020 at 11:42:05 AM
Okay! I'll get to work on the main Fanservice page cleanup.
Edit: Hm...seems like the cleanup sandbox for that is locked. I'll check again later.
Edited by ATricksterArtist on Jul 4th 2020 at 11:56:22 AM
I never realized how many entries shame Doug for being "too skinny" and speculating that he looks malnourished. That's just...really creepy. Especially when that's treated like the only thing that keeps him from being fanservice.
I'd say bring the Nightmare Fuel page to the LT/P cleanup thread. It's one of the more active ones and we're used to...well...cleaning up these pages. It'll get done faster over there than over here and have more discussion as well.
Unfortunately I haven't watched the NC in years and I only really remember his pre-TBF videos so I'm not sure I can really help. I don't know anything about the new characters and plotlines because I lost interest when they were introduced.
And I can give context on the new characters and plotlines since a lot of people understandably lost interest around that point, but I genuinely kept up on those plots. (Part of why I made this thread is so I can comfortably update the page with examples from new episodes without having to dig through all the bloated misuse.) However, a lot of bad examples also apply to the show pre-TBF, especially because they were added prior to our upped standards. Plus there are some instances of blatant misuse that don't always require show context, like the Fanservice examples.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 4th 2020 at 12:00:58 PM
I can help doing the Nightmare Fuel cleanup thread, if you'd like.
This is true.
Well I'll hang around and see what I can help with.
I just posted the NF query in the main NF cleanup thread.
Added a single review to the Fanservice cleanup sandbox. As said, I'm new to reviewing so I could be wrong or making false assumptions.
You're right that the Spoony examples don't count if it's focusing so much on the suffering. However, that does fit Fan Disservice. A lot of these examples would be valid under that trope, while several of the examples actually under Fan Disservice can just be cut entirely. Now that's irony.
There is a snag though, in that there was a huge portion of fandom back in the day who specifically fetishized Critic suffering. So some examples are confirmed to be fanservice by the creators, even though suffering usually qualifies as Fan Disservice. I'm going to assume anything involving suffering that's not specifically stated as fanservice is disservice, but it's an unfortunately grey area.
Looking over HypocriticalHumor.The Nostalgia Critic now. Lots of unintentional meta examples, which aren't allowed under the trope.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 4th 2020 at 12:44:36 PM
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