An expy is an unambiguous and deliberate copy of another, older character."
Note the word "another" and the words "unambiguous", "deliberate", and "copy". Those are the important words.
Here's your checklist:
- "Unambiguous": There is no doubt, there is no room for arguing that they aren't.
- "Deliberate": Done with intent.
- The resemblance is not accidental or coincidental. (For instance, being played by the same voice actor/actress is not sufficient to make an expy. Neither is a similar art style when they're both drawn by the same artist.)
- Word of God helps a lot with this point, but if the other points are present strongly enough, Word of God is not absolutely required.
- "Copy": A duplicate, an item made in imitation of another one.
- The expy came after the character they're an expy of. If they both were created at about the same time, it probably isn't an expy.
- The older character is never the expy, even if the other, later character is better known.
- Superficial traits (like a hairstyle, choice in clothing, preferred fighting method) are not sufficient to make an expy; the copy needs to also fill the same role in the work and serve the same purpose within the story.
- Major traits or characteristics being very different between the two characters is enough to make a character not an expy (for instance, the original is a demure Girl Next Door, the proposed Expy is a FemmeFatale — not an expy)
- "Another": One other. Note the singular. It doesn't say "several". If the proposed expy combines traits, characteristics, or features of two or more other characters, they are not an expy of any of them.
If an entry fails to meet even one of those criteria, it is not an expy and should be removed.. Actual expies are nowhere near as common as many editors think.
If you want to link to this post in your edit reason, please do.
Here's the link to copy and paste: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13983140170A37263400&page=1#5
edited 27th Mar '15 6:53:01 AM by Madrugada
Very Spooky
You can get rid of it.
back lol
Verdict on Relius Clover and Yuuki Terumi
?
Edited by AzureLegacy on Feb 9th 2024 at 10:27:54 AM
Very Spooky
This may be a bit presumptuous, but I’m automatically suspicious of any Expy examples that do nothing but list a bunch of generic traits and tropes that have appeared in numerous other characters, without actually specifying how Character B is clearly meant to be based off Character A. It comes off to me as consciously obscuring or twisting details to make the two appear more similar than they actually are.
I’m not familiar with BlazBlue at all, but I say cut ‘em both.
back lol
I'm Sad Frogerson.
I found this on Kung Fu Panda – Antagonists, referring to Boss Wolf from Kung Fu Panda 2:
- Expy: Of Wolf O'Donnell. Wolf? Check. Mohawk? Check. Bad eye? Check, and points for being the same eye. Shoulder spikes? Check. Hell-Bent for Leather? Check. A natural leader who is himself The Dragon to someone else? Check. Even Evil Has Standards? Total check.
- Like Wolf and Fox, he's also similar to Po in terms of attitude—it's just their morals and their choice of allies that sets them apart, as they can both be silly or serious, and their short battle has elements of You Fight Like a Cow.
- Unlike Wolf O'Donnell, he does not serve for money but rather out of loyalty to Lord Shen. He is not particularly skilled at his "profession" and he isn't overly smart.
Now, I'm not familiar with Star Fox outside of Super Smash Bros., but I feel the connections here are very weak. The only real similarities is that the two are villainous anthropomorphic wolves with eye-patches. The final sub-bullet is even dedicated to how different the two are. I don't think these similarities are intentional, so should this entry be cut?
Very Spooky
That’s a perfect example of what I just discussed above. Good Scars, Evil Scars is a common trope in villains. Spikes of Villainy is a common trope in villains. Hell-Bent for Leather is a common trope in villains. Just because all of those happen to appear on another anthropomorphic wolf does not make him an Expy. Cut.
back lol
So this was brought to my attention. Guts being a Corrupted Character Copy of Kenshiro
For one, I'm hesitant to see this as CCC when their respective genres are completely different, Berserk being a Dark Fantasy and Fistof The North Star being a The Apunkalypse. Also Guts character page lists him as being an Expy of five characters.
Edited by AzureLegacy on Feb 10th 2024 at 10:00:16 AM
Showtime!
That sounds like someone heard that Miura was openly inspired by Fist of the North Star and extrapolated too much, cut it
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'll make a defense for Kenshiro example staying, since Miura did explictly say he based Guts off Kenshiro and Griffith off Oscar and they are obvious parallels between their characters even if their genres are different.
If you want it gone for too many expies reasons then sure I'll understand.
Y.20
I don't know if this example was brought up before but in Characters.Elden Ring Malenia, this example claims Malenia is an expy of Wolf from Sekiro.
- Expy: Malenia can be concisely summed up as one to Wolf. Design-wise, they have the obvious similarities of prosthetic arms and wielding katanas (though Malenia's blade isn't quite an identical match for one) with which they perform Super-Speed Flash Step and Razor Wind attacks. Character-wise, both always speak very calmly in a deep voice, can restore their health by killing enemies, unwillingly act as vectors for a disease that causes those close to them to Rot (Scarlet Rot/Dragon Rot) and potentially threatens the whole land, have resurrective immortality granted by their corruptive curses, turn against their fathers' visions for their homeland (Radagon's obedience to the Golden Order/Owl's plot to become god-emperor of Japan) and give up shots at great power to do so, have overall understated personalities that fade just a bit in a good fight, are in constant danger of being overtaken by a supernatural influence that would transform them into monsters (Goddess of Rot/Shura), had a master swordsman mentor who famously slew the previous incarnation of said influence (The Blue Fairy Swordsman for the God of Rot, Isshin Ashina for Shura), and are primarily defined by their ironclad and selfless loyalty towards wise, mystical, immortal child-lords (Miquella/Kuro) who seek to purge their curses. Some of Malenia's attack animations also look a lot like stronger versions of the moves Sekiro can learn, with a kick resembling the Senpou Leaping Kick, the opening of her Waterfowl Dance having similar choreography to Spiral Cloud Passage, or the last second of her Waterfowl Dance having her perform a forward slash followed by a dozen invisible-to-the-eye slashes appearing around her in a sphere while seemingly stationary, just like One Mind.
I definitely remember editing this one before but, it feels more like it's trying to justify its existence by extrapolating very, very hard.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13983140170A37263400&page=45#comment-1108
RE: Spinel and the Joker. I'm watching Pokemon Horizons in Japanese so that's the characterisation I'm using. Not familiar with DCU stuff so my impressions on the Joker are based on pop culture osmosis so forgive me if I've gotten something completely wrong!
This just sounds like someone knows two unhinged green-haired Evil Is Hammy characters. Spinel looks nothing like and sounds nothing like the Joker. He's usually calm and collected, even when fighting his enemies. He just has fun with it, like preferring to command his Pokemon remotely during his battle with Friede (which is also done to protect his identity). He taunts his opponents... but it's rather mild taunting.
Spinel also listens to instructions, too. He has a boss and obeys his orders. He does his job. He treats it as a job. He does things within the law (luring Liko into an alleyway and brainwashing her aside, I mean) and doesn't cheat during Pokemon battles or anything. He can think for himself and knows when something seems fishy.
Also, I know nothing about American comics, but I always got the impression that the Joker was purposefully targeting Batman and loved getting a rise out of him. This isn't the case for Spinel. The only reason he's interested in Liko and her pendant is because his boss went "Go get that pendant for me" and Spinel went "Okay sure lol". Doesn't the Joker work for himself, too? And answer to nobody? (I could have that detail wrong)
Like, yeah, Spinel's a bit whacky and like I said, unhinged, but he's not... outright insane like the Joker is in some adaptations. Spinel's just cartoonishly evil sometimes with his gestures
◊ and expressions
◊ (but this is Pokemon, everyone has exaggerated expressions all the time. I can find countless examples of this, it's not just Spinel making that kind of face).
Either way this seems like a massive leap. If anything, I'd argue that Sango is closer to a Joker-type but not Expy level.
Edited by Zazie122 on Feb 23rd 2024 at 8:17:19 AM
Avatar: Amethio (Pokemon Horizons)
Biggest ZeroLenny Stan
Holy Hannah, that's bigger stretch than anything I've ever seen. Get rid of it immediately. In general, carpet nuke all the Elden Ring pages of needless comparisons to other From Soft games, but especially Expy.
Edited by ReginaldOgron5 on Mar 18th 2024 at 10:21:17 AM
It's not about the gold; it's about the glory.
Found this on Cooler's Revenge:
"Expy Coexistence: Cooler is obviously based on Frieza, and his Quirky Mini Boss Squad is inspired by the Ginyu Force. Then again, he is Frieza's brother, so.."
writer/producer/director/visionary/troper Ai-Fan The Master Of The Romantic (But Deadly) Drinking Game And Haiku™
So I've been told that reassurance is needed before any drastic action is taken for Expy.Invincible 2021. I will point out that most of the examples already violate the "no composites" part of what makes an expy, but I need a consensus to be completely sure.
- Mark aka Invincible is the equivalent to Superboy, though with a numerous of send-ups to Spider-Man particularly in regard to The Masquerade Will Kill Your Dating Life and going through high-school and college.
- Alternatively loads of fans have likened Mark to Gohan being the Half-Human Hybrid son of an warrior alien and human woman who becomes a rather dorky-looking superhero multiple allies and foes do not take seriously.
- Omni-Man is clearly Invincible's Superman Substitute though he’s ultimately darker. Omni-Man's white and red outfit also brings to mind both Supreme and the Plutonian from Irredeemable, two other examples of the Superman Substitute that were used to examine comic book tropes. The final episode establishes that he's actually more of a General Zod Subsitute being part of a race of galactic conquerors.
- Alternatively, many fans have compared him to Vegeta. Being warriors from a race of space conquerors who eventually had half-breed children with a woman from Earth. Like Vegeta, Nolan was more influenced by his Viltrumite upbringing and was in Debbie's words, "an asshole", in his early years and was detached from humanity, before growing into a loving husband and father... And then relapsing into his darker persona years after having a child.
- Nolan is also very similar to Son Goku himself since he was sent to Earth to as a scout for his space conqueror race but his time on Earth resulted in him Going Native — to the disgust of other members his race. This is also strengthened by the fact Mark aka Invincible his son, is already similar to Gohan (complete with Nolan being disappointed that his son doesn’t share his lust for battle much like Goku with Gohan) and Debbie has many parallels with Chi-Chi.
- The Guardians of the Globe are this to the Justice League of America, although interestingly, the Superman counterpart isn't an official member of the team, with the (heroic) Vandal Savage expy, The Immortal, taking his place instead.
- Darkwing is a Captain Ersatz of Batman though he lacks any obvious Animal Motif. Hilariously enough, he shares his name with a certain other terror that flaps in the night who has made recent appearances in the 2017 DuckTales series.
- Aquarius is a hydrokinetic fish-man version of Aquaman. A number of fans have also compared him to the recent version of King Shark that's appeared in Harley Quinn.
- War Woman is a Wonder Woman Wannabe, though her hammer-like weapon and transformation can invoke the Jane Foster version of Thor/Valkyrie, as well as Big Barda and Hawkgirl.
- Red Rush is a Russian Captain Ersatz of The Flash, with his girlfriend Olga filling the role of Iris West, Barry Allen's frequent love-interest. He could also be compared to fellow speedster Quicksilver; Quicksilver is from Transia (a fictional Eastern European country in the Marvel Universe between Romania and Serbia) rather than Russia, but this could also be a nod to his much-derided portrayal in Age of Ultron.
- Martian Man is a expy of J'onn J'onzz, the Martian Manhunter although his powerset is much closer to that of Plastic Man. His super-strength, invulnerability, and flight have been transferred to The Immortal.
- Green Ghost is the team's Green Lantern expy though her change from a man to a woman calls specifically to either Jessica Cruz or Jennifer-Lynn Hayden. It should be noted that it's more the "green motif hero" role she fills, showing powers akin to the Invisible Woman and Kitty Pryde. However, she does have a Transformation Trinket, a green gem she has to swallow to transform, similar to a Green Lantern ring.
- Cecil Stedman is Nick Fury minus the eyepatch (with shades of Amanda Waller); he runs a knockoff of S.H.I.E.L.D. called the Global Defense Agency.
- Damien Darkblood is modeled after Mr. A, The Question, Rorschach and Etrigan, with a Hellboy aesthetic. He also shares John Constantine's status as The Friend Nobody Likes, his famous trench coat (shared by Hellboy), and having vaguely selfish reasons for getting justice for others.
- Atom Eve is Mary Jane Watson but with Green Lantern/Captain Atom/Dr. Manhattan-esque powers, and Amber is meant to be Gwen Stacy sharing a Love Triangle with Mark. Funny enough, the dynamic brings to mind another famous Love Triangle from a different (non-superhero) comic book. Eve can also be considered an expy of Jean Grey being a redheaded metahuman who has the ability to alter things on the molecular level.
- The Teen Team are meant to be the Teen Titans (in concept, not so much members) though they are one of several teams, being the 4th most popular team on the internet.
- Rex Splode is based on Gambit, lacking his charm and suave instead being a Jerkass with a Hair-Trigger Temper.
- Robot can be seen as The Vision with the aesthetics of Robotman of Doom Patrol. His VA Zachary Quinto is a major Casting Gag as his character is the Comically Serious Literal-Minded Straw Vulcan of the team after three films as Spock.
- After getting a new human body, he becomes a teenaged version of Iron Man, wearing one of his old robot bodies as Power Armor.
- Dupli-Kate is a gender-flipped Multiple Man. Interestingly, whether using her powers in battle, playing ping-pong with herself, or having a foursome with Rex, she tends to always create three of herself bringing to mind Tripilicate Girl.
- Monster Girl is a HULK MASH!-Up though because of a curse instead of gamma radiation. She even has anger issues in the form of her apparent age being a Berserk Button and relationship woes similar to the film version of Banner.
- Black Samson is initially based on Iron Man though a key difference is that Samson had powers at one point and was even a Guardian but lost them. This calls to mind many a number of times and examples of heroes losing their powers and donning Powered Armor to compensate.
- His opponent in the Guardian tryouts, Throwbolt is one to Superman villain Livewire.
- Shrinking Rae is based on Doll Girl, a character from the The Golden Age of Comic Books, though fans' first instinct would be The Wasp or the Rhonda Pineda version of The Atom. She is also based on Shrinking Violet.
- As the male version from the comics comes from The Atom, this too is homaged... darkly. Her introduction is using her shrinking powers to go in one ear and out the other, attacking from inside her foe's brain, the same method Jean Loring used to kill Sue Dibny.
- William Clockwell is Mark's Gay Best Friend like Rick Stone is for Virgil Hawkins/Static likely more known as Richie Foley aka Gear.
- While not a direct example, The Mauler Twins are a pair made of a Genius Bruiser and his clone; along with their initial costume, fans may be reminded of when the Hulk became Doc Green for a stretch and the recently merged version of Bruce Banner and Hulk known as "Smart-Hulk" seen in Avengers: Endgame.
- They also invoke similarity from Marvel's minor villains the Blood Brothers, alien twin brothers known for their super strength and durability.
- One of the most direct comparisons however is to the Ultra-Humanite. The Maulers' unique bodies have yet to be explained, but the most logical explanation is that their scientific knowhow allowed a previous Mauler to alter his DNA. This and the cloning is not unlike Ultra's gimmick of bodily transference. Originally, he was just a bald mad scientist and Superman's arch nemesis. After Superman assumed Ultra dead from their first encounter, Ultra stole an actress's body to survive. He then hopped bodies until finally settling on an enhanced mutated albino gorilla. The "twins" aspect may be an homage to the fact that the original Lex Luthor was just a Captain Ersatz of the original Ultra-Humanite, both being bald mad scientists who sought wealth and power and were Superman's arch nemesis, Ultra for Kal-L and Lex for Kal-El. Since being supplanted and having no role, Ultra has become a mid-tier villain who is often used by other characters for his brains, as he's viewed in-universe as a bargain bin Lex that can fight.
- Todd represents the classic depiction of Spider-Man's high-school bully Flash Thompson lacking his more redeeming traits and actually attacking Mark twice something that Flash never did sans the Ultimate Marvel and movie versions.
- The sequids are one for Starro; both are alien races of cephalopods that attach themselves to the indigenous race to mind-control them.
- With his white suit, on the nose villain name, and being a big time super villain crime lord for an entire city, Machine Head is what happens if Batman villain Black Mask was a cyborg. In particular, his appearance parallels the version from Batman: Arkham Origins where he loses his power base through a combination of the hero's efforts and a villain he severely underestimated who takes over much of his operations.
- Titan is a criminal serving a powerful crime lord who is also a loving family man voiced by Mahershala Ali, a lot like the Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse version of Aaron Davis. The biggest difference is that Titan lived to help Invincible overthrow Machine Head before taking his boss's place, while Aaron was killed by the Kingpin.
- Ability wise, he's a morally grey Luke Cage. By his occupation as an enforcer, he's similar to Spider-Man villain Tombstone.
- Kursk, Tethyr Tyrant, Magmaniac, and Furnace - villains hired by Machine Head - resemble Spider-Man foes Electro, Dr. Octopus, Sandman and Living Brain respectively. Also Bi-Plane, the villain tossed into space by The Immortal, strongly resembles The Vulture.
- Battle Beast is a loose take on Hawkman enemy Lion-Mane.
- Hail Mary, the kaiju from Episode 7, is one of Cthulhu by being a giant nigh-invulnerable monster with an octopus head.
- Doc Seismic is one of Avengers villain Graviton. Though, his appearance in ending montage of Season 1, where he’s ruling over magma-monsters, is reminiscent of the Mole-Man.
- The first episode has Nolan describe the Viltrumites as a race of intergalactic peacekeepers that possess Flying Brick powers similar to those of Kryptonians filling the role of the Guardians of the Universe. The final episode reveals them to be what the Kryptonians would be like if they followed the philosophy of General Zod. Fans have also compared their origin to the Saiyans.
- The Seance Dog comic Mark loves is about a mystical dog that seems to bear some similarity to Marvel's Doctor Strange, complete with yellow gloves and a red cape. A noted change from the comics Science Dog, who had a more Doc Savage aesthetic.
- The Reanimen are a very clear homage to Robocop, most notable their face-covering masks.
- Agent Spider is an obvious Spider-Man Send-Up, down to fighting a "Prof Ock" and being voiced by Josh Keaton of The Spectacular Spider-Man... though notably, he's unique in the fact that his presence in the show takes the place of his actual inspiration, as comic Mark actually got sent to Earth-616 and spent time in the pages of Marvel Team-Up with the real Spider-Man.
Yeah, i dont think that counts. Obviously Cooler and Frieza are similar are purpose, but Cooler isnt an Expy of Frieza because thats not how the trope works.
Well you can delete composite examples on principle.
Biggest ZeroLenny Stan
Isn't listing an Expy example on Invincible (2021) redundant to examples from Invincible anyway? I'd say torch 'em or move 'em there instead.
he/him
That goes back to the long-running discussion as to whether adaptation pages need to be complete & stand alone.
My personal view would be that if it's intended to work for an audience that doesn't know the original comics, and all the other tropes are listed, there's nothing wrong with listing this one too. But that's getting beyond the scope of this thread.
I have already personally removed a few of the misused Expy entries on the character pages for superheroes. The Teen Team is blatantly a stand-in for the Teen Titans but the characters themselves are not expies so just get rid of the character specific entries. The Guardians of the Globe are blatantly Justice League expies each but you can probably also reduce the entries to a single condensed one. Darkwing is very obviously a Jason-Todd esque stand-in for the Batman successor (the one that cracked under pressure of their city being a shithole and became a remorseless killer) so that one can stay too.
The rest can all be removed citing this thread and the Expy definition.
Animu
I'm thinking that Ikuko Onabuta from Nukitashi is an expy of Anna Nishikinomiya from Shimoneta.
Similarities:
- Student council members.
- Same short hairstyle with a headband
- Their eyes turn into hearts when they get sexually excited.
- Both are ridiculously strong
- After their first kiss/sex with their respective protagonists, they develop Single-Target Sexuality for them and become aggresive Abhorrent Admirers, going as far as raping the MCs.
- Anna perpetually leaks "love nectar" while Ikuko doesn't.
- Ikuko is less mentally deranged than Anna.
The works also have common themes: Shimoneta is about fighting for the horny in a world where the horny is banned while Nukitashi is about fighting against the horny in an island where the horny is compulsory.
Do you think this example would count as an expy?
Woagh
Found this on Pizza Tower regarding The Noise. I already see an edit warning so already that's a good sign.
- To a certain extent he is a Corrupted Character Copy of Sonic the Hedgehog as well. He vaguely resembles a rodent, has the personality of a Mascot with Attitude, is bitter rivals with the Mario/Wario-like Peppino, and (most tellingly) his boss theme is a Sonic CD-inspired 90's pop song.
Don't think Noise's light Mascot with Attitude aspects make him a wholesale copy of Sonic needless to say. Like everyone's saying, that's just a personality aspect they kinda share. Also he looks nothing like a rodent.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Remember that for a character to be an expy of another, it has to be intentional on the creator's part. A few surface-level similarities can just as easily be a coincidence, since writers often end up pulling from the same tropes when creating a character.
Astro City has an entry saying most characters in the series are one step beyond Expies, they're Captain Ersatz, meaning, they actually are meant to be the DC/Marvel characters they look like.
This is completely false. Per Word of God, Astro City's characters aren't Captain Ersatz, and aren't even Expies either. This is sort of a pet peeve of creator Kurt Busiek.
The characters are meant to draw upon the archetypes of superhero fiction, without being direct copies or homages to any specific character, except on rare occasions.
Yeah, I know, it's hard to argue that the First Family aren't the Fantastic Four. I've had fun myself trying to catalogue all the "influences" in Astro City. But Busiek has a point. For instance, the Reed Richards analogue has no powers, and so would be close to the Challengers of the Unknown. The Human Torch and Invisible Woman analogues actually have a fair share of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch (they're the children of a anti-villain, she married a 'monster' and scandalized the city, etc.).
Jack-in-the-Box is not Spider-Man, according to Busiek, but simply embodies the archetype of the urban trickster, like Harlan Ellison's Harlequin from "Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman, for instance.
EDIT: This is such a understandable and common misconception about the series that it should be in Common Knowledge or as an aversion of Expy.
Edited by renenarciso2 on Apr 14th 2024 at 8:50:04 AM
Animu
Move to common knowledge
Don't you think the similarities are strong enough?
dave bowman but worse
only the last one seems unique. if you can find an author / designer saying that character was an influence, than it’s a stronger case.
What's the consensus on the Batman Parody example?