During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Yo, when I was putting up Gant and the Demonbane keeper I saw Redd White, Nya and... some other unapproved Ace Attorney villain were up so I purged. Just noting it here so we've got it documented.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Looks good
Edited by 43110 on Sep 17th 2018 at 5:32:08 AM
V
- Bron|Broen: The Truth Terrorist, real name Sebastian Sandstrod, the Big Bad of season 1 is an athletic and military-trained but also well-dressed and charismatic Serial Killer who wants to bring attention to social problems. To do this, the Terrorist starts killing them, giving the issue more attention than ever. Having five children kidnapped and placed inside a locked room, the Terrorist wants to bring attention to child labor by giving a demand that people will have to burn down the offices of five companies using it, everytime it happens he spares one child each, and doesn't back out of the deal once they do as he says. Placing Hennig, an officer committing misconduct which lead to a man's death in the basement of said man's brother, the Terrorist tries framing the brother for the murder by having him torture Hennig. With his true goal being revealed to get vengeance on Martin Rohde for cheating on Sandstrod's wife before she along with their son died, Sandstod, then named Jens Hansen and the best policeman around, now wants revenge on Rohde for ruining his life. He does this by having Rohde's eldest son August build a good relationship with his father by putting them through life-threatening situations, only to later kill him, just so that it would hurt more.
Is this good enough? He has a big rapsheet so it's pretty hard.
Redd White is a definite no. The only reason he's even a threat is because he's got blackmail. Blackmail alone and a smug snake behaviour does not make a MB.
If I had to guess the not approved AA villain, I'm guessing Roger Retinz or Luke Atmey both of whom do not qualify due to having incredibly arrogant behaviour, and in Roger's case, barely too evil to count. (He causes two teenagers to commit manslaughter because he hates the Magician trope that kicked him out for performing when he got injured.) In a way he's a lot like Syndrome from Incredibles, insufficiently heinous to be Pure Evil, but also too arrogant and hate filled to be a MB. They both even have similar motivations.
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
I'm going to ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Goldfinger.
I also beat Spider-Man on PS 4. I'll have my thoughts up on Friday.
Actually now that I think about it Luke was the other one listed. If there's a case, go for it!
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Have we talked about Mendoza from GARO: The Animation? He’s on the nastier end of the scale, but the spectacular underdog success story he pulls in the second half of the series makes him feel worthy of discussion, and being a surprisingly Benevolent Boss to his primary minion should add a few extra style points.
Edited by Iaculus on Sep 17th 2018 at 10:23:59 AM
What's precedent ever done for us?
I think that's a needed discussion, TBH, but Mendoza is...vile. Really, really vile.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Iaculus Mendoza as a MB huh... Tbh, I dreamed that he ended up getting an MB entry... No kidding. I dont know what makes me of thinking that but yeah. Still, seeing his CM entry makes me unsure if he qualifies.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Sep 17th 2018 at 5:46:54 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
The wifi here sucks
Eh, It was worth a shot. I didn't really think about the implications of someone dying of skin suffocation and how painful it probably would be (if it were actually possible). Still you have to admit, he is a great villain.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
I haven't seen the show and I know we do have an underdog CM crossover keeper in the form of Steerpike but looking at Mendoza's monster entry... damn, he looks fucking evil.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Although I have to admit that it wont hurt to discuss Mendoza... It would be interesting but yeah... He's a hard case.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Here we go! Kurei's write-up!
- Flame of Recca has the Dragon to Kouran Mori, Kurei Mori. He begins the series by orchestrating the events of the first 50+ chapters before Mori takes over. He does this by kidnapping Recca's "princess" Yanagi, and baiting Recca to his castle. As the heroes assemble and form Team Hokage, Kurei defeats Recca, Fuuko, and the dimwitted Jerk with a Heart of Gold Domon in combat and tells them they must enter the lethal combat arena of Ura Butou Satsujin (UBS) where rich lords and ladies gamble on strong fighters including Kurei's adopted father, Kouran Mori. After seeing firsthand Team Hokage's strength from fighting the hired thugs, Kurei prepares several deadly fighters to challenge Hokage. Kurei lets Recca take care of the traitor Genjuro for him, and his minions go down one by one. With no one in his way, Kurei fights Recca in single combat, and despite collapsing the stadium on Recca, Kurei is defeated. After the tournament, Kurei makes good of his promise to not attack Recca or his friends and ultimately helps them defeat Mokuren, killing Mori after Mori tries to pull a You Have Outlived Your Usefulness on Kurei. In the end, Kurei was one step ahead of the heroes,and despite brutal tendencies was a noble villain.
How does that look?
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Alright, here are two tv candidates I wanted to knock out quickly:
What is the work?
The Outer Limits is a 1990s sci-fi anthology, a revival of the shorter-lived 1960s series, that became notorious for its overuse of the Cruel Twist Ending. A while back I nominated its resident Nazi villain Karl Rademacher for Complete Monster. The show itself had some pretty varied plots, often relating to man's hubris, are robots sentient, aliens invading the earth or covertly infiltrating society, etc. If the threat isn't a monster or some piece of science gone wrong, the usual Villain of the Week is more likely to be a Mad Scientist or Corrupt Corporate Executive who play the Smug Snake angle completely straight. Makes the subsequent Laser-Guided Karma very gratifying, but this does mean that there are very few candidates for a trope like Magnificent Bastard. Still, I've found some:
Who is Zig Fowler? What have they done?
The episode "Zig Zag" is set 20 Minutes into the Future in a world where all information is controlled by a single MegaCorp through DNA chips to track people's every movement. It was made in those weird immediate post-Matrix years when every show and quite a few movies had some sort of computer or cyberspace-related plot where a Playful Hacker is sticking it to The Man. Other than that, the episode's only other notable element is that the entire thing is Back to Front.
Zig Fowler (curiously, played by Frank Whaley, aka Brett, who actually manages to get into badass mode when he tries) is a cyber-terrorist heading the Syndrome cell dedicated to freeing people from central control, no matter what it takes. The episode opens with Zig and his armed companions having infiltrated the corporation's secure server room, with armed SWAT waiting outside to storm it. Meanwhile Zig is negotiating with the CEO and threatening to blow up the entire building.
From there the episode proceeds backwards, but for the sake of convenience I'll go chronologically: Zig Fowler, who has never shown his face to any of his followers, faked his own death so he could infiltrate the MegaCorp, adopting the identity Cliff Unger. A year later, the altered chip reverts back, turning Cliff into a pariah. He turns to his boss for 'help', while planting an encrypted file in the server room. After his boss angrily dismisses him, Cliff/Zig then rejoins his own movement. While his supporters are initially hostile to him, he convinces them to take part in a raid on the server room, during which half of them are killed. He finally concedes to his boss's demands, handing him the detonator to the bomb. Zig boasts that the progam he previously planted has rigged the servers to explode, destroying the entire city along with it. His boss has the detonator to the sequence "in his hand", who then swipes his personal chip on the computer panel to deactivate it, which of course instead triggers the bomb. Zig dies in a blaze of glory as the whole building collapses.
How do his actions and personality show he is a Magnificent Bastard?
Zig is an intelligent cracker and a Well-Intentioned Extremist. He perfectly executed a plan that took him an entire year to implement, all the while pretending to be an unassuming, meek IT columnist. When he drops the mask, he's smooth as hell and effortlessly plays mind games with his boss.
Mitigating Factors?
Nope.
Verdict?
Keep Ziggy.
Second is a character played by Nicole De Boer from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine fame, from the episode "Quality of Mercy".
Who is the Cadet? What has she done?
In The Future, humanity has colonized other planets, but has become embroiled in a war with a hostile alien civilization. Major John Stokes (Robert Patrick), a veteran fighter pilot who once took out an alien capital ship, is captured by the aliens (The Reptilians, of course, because they make such good bad guys) after his ship is blown up, and taken to a prison on a barren moon. He shares a cell with Cadet Bree Tristan, a frightened young woman who has been recruited into the space force straight out of high school. She shows him a skin graft on one of her arms, which is alien skin. She explains that it's part of an experiment the aliens are trying out, attempting to transform a human being into one of their own in the hopes that she will switch allegiance and provide them with valuable military information.
Tristan is sporadically hauled out of the cell to receive further skin grafts, while Major Stokes tries to hatch an escape plan by carving out the air vent on the top of their holding cell. Tristan confides her feelings with Stokes, how she hated growing up in a totalitarian society on a constant war footing, and how she and her former comrade tried to commit suicide before they were captured. Stokes tries to comfort her and tell her that they will find a way out, the human spirit is indominable, etc. When she's taken once again, Stokes, who is somewhat in love with her after sharing a passionate kiss, tries to save her from an alien scientist performing surgery on her, but is knocked out and wakes up back in his cell. Tristan, who is at this point nearly fully alien, comes back. Stokes tries to comfort her by telling her that a major attack force is poised to strike at the aliens, which is exactly what she wanted to hear. The guards open the cell door, as she lets slip the Wham Line: "They're not changing me. They're changing me back."
How do her actions and personality show she is a Magnificent Bitch?
She's an expert emotional manipulator, playing up a Wounded Gazelle Gambit so that Stokes will pity her, fall for her, and then unwittingly doom the entire human war effort. When she finally reveals the truth, she's ice-cold about it. And yes, their race is indicated to understand morality. While she probably loves her own people, the aliens are explicitly hostile and warlike, and she's fine serving them as a duplicitous spy.
Mitigating Factors?
Nope.
Verdict?
Keep the "Cadet", whatever her name is.
Edited by Morgenthaler on Sep 18th 2018 at 7:50:20 AM
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Zig, yes...but I can't see the magnificence in stringing along a tortured, emotionally shattered man to assist with the commission of genocide. No to the cadet.
Gonna agree with Lighty here. The former sounds like he's got the likeable nature down in addition to the brilliant scheming but the latter sounds kinda O'Brien from 1984... a cog in the machine, who, while smart and manipulative, is operating at a way higher point than her captive and pretty well has everything carved out for her in terms of tools and resources to break him down and get what she wants. Even if the scheming is all her, just how helpless her target sounds against her skews her a bit closer to Hate Sink than this for me.
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Zig
Cadet
Ziggy, Cadet.
Gonna go with the majority and Zig but Cadet.
Also, @43110 I posted my write-up on this page. I tried my best to give the abridged version.
Edited by Klavice on Sep 18th 2018 at 2:36:07 AM
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
To Ziggy, to Cadet
Edited by G-Editor on Sep 18th 2018 at 5:47:00 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Zinger
Zig. Cadet
Richter draft:
- Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World: Richter Abend, a former scientist seeking to kill the genocidal spirit Ratatosk and to resurrect his friend Aster, who was killed by Ratatosk. To accomplish this, Richter makes a pact with the demons of Niflheim, who give Richter the strength to face Ratatosk and a promise to resurrect Aster on the condition that Richter kills Ratatosk, which will destroy the barrier stopping the demons from invading the mortal world. However, Richter devises a plan to doublecross the demons by sacrificing himself after Ratatosk is dead and Aster is revived. Exploiting the tension between the peoples of Sylvarant and Tethea'alla, Richter uses Solum's core to control Brute, the leader of the Vanguard, turning it into a violent anti-Tethe'allan movement. Richter uses this ethnic violence to cover up his quest to find and kill Ratatosk. Along the way, Richter befriends Emil and teaches him self-confidence. After Emil stops Richter's plans, Richter works together with the newly-reformed Ratatosk to hold back the demons of Niflheim for a thousand years.
Edited by lrrose on Sep 18th 2018 at 6:55:24 AM
Speaking of O'Brien I'm going to officially purge his entry so we've got it documented. Here it is for reference:
- Magnificent Bastard: O'Brien. He's an Affably Evil Genius Bruiser Chessmaster Manipulative Bastard who comes off as very charismatic even while he's torturing Winston and ensures the Party's endless victories against all would-be rebels.
I cut this from the YMMV Spirit of Justice page since neither of these were approved.
- The Big Bad of Case 2, Roger Retinz — a.k.a. the real Mr. Reus. He preemptively overlaps Faking the Dead with Locked Room Mystery in front of a live audience, invokes Obfuscating Stupidity to trick Betty de Famme into believing that she's actually the one manipulating him, deceives Trucy into unknowingly giving him the entire Wright Anything Agency, exploits his media position to hurt her case even further, goes the extra mile to have as many people as possible vouch for his alibi, and even tampers with the crime scene more than once — while the investigation's still going on, no less. If not for Bonny making a mistake he couldn't have predicted, he would have got off scott-free. And in the end, despite being arrested, he still gets to claim a small (albeit extremely petty) victory after successfully stumping the Gramarye prodigy at her own game.
- Tahrust Inmee in Case 3. Was secretly the Defiant Dragons' main Mole for years, then deliberately manipulated his own suicide to fool the Divination Seance in order to conceal his wife's Crime of Self-Defense against the fake Lady Kee'ra — even going as far as to pull an Anti-Villain version of Dahlia Hawthorne's Back from the Dead testimony from Trials and Tribulations. And while the truth inevitably comes out anyway, he still succeeds at both protecting his wife (who proceeds to replace him among the Defiant Dragons) and their unborn child, and causing the public to view the Defense Culpability Act with the 0% Approval Rating it rightly deserves — with his only regret being getting Maya Fey and Phoenix Wright caught in the crossfire.
For one Tahrust can't be one because he killed himself to stop the DCA, and he's hardly a "bastard".
I linked the thread in case whoever added them wants to make a case for them.
Edited by Klavice on Sep 18th 2018 at 10:03:29 AM
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Random use in pages:
From A Lighter Shade of Black:
Or maybe the villain is such a Magnificent Bastard that it's easier to side with them. Especially if their opposition is a threat to everyone.
Use is in the trope description, I'm fine with it.
From A Tankard of Moose Urine:
- Americans for their part have similar reaction to the idea of beer not being chilled. Probably because just about every mass-market American beer is a lager. Lagers are always served cold, the world over (if there is any infrastructure to allow it). Ales, Porters, and Stouts; there there is some debate (you definitely don't chill them as much as lagers though).
- When President Obama met Prime Minister David Cameron for a casual beer (in front of eighty million cameras) each brought a favourite beer from their own home country. Despite Cameron's protests that the flavour of the (very cultured) Hobgoblin Beer from the Wychwood Brewery in his constituency of Oxfordshire that he brought for Obama to try would be ruined by chilling it to ice cold, Obama absolutely insisted on putting it in the fridge. You would think Obama would trust him, or at least, the guidelines on the bottle, enough to try a beer as intended. Apparently not. See a picture of the event here.◊note Incidentally, Hobgoblin is well known in England for its humorously scathing criticism◊ of people who drink cheap tasteless lager, something Cameron would have been very aware of.
- When President Obama met Prime Minister David Cameron for a casual beer (in front of eighty million cameras) each brought a favourite beer from their own home country. Despite Cameron's protests that the flavour of the (very cultured) Hobgoblin Beer
Refers to a real life person, cutting.
From A Wolf in Sheep's Clothing:
- A Song of Ice and Fire, (being an entire series worth of Doorstopper sized Gambit Pileups), has no shortage of these, but one character who stands out for this trope is Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish. He's an interesting example because he doesn't pretend to be nice (his affable persona is a deliberately Paper-Thin Disguise); the real pretence is that he acts like a Smug Snake when he is in fact a full-fledged Magnificent Bastard, so still fits the bill of pretending to be much less dangerous than he really is.
Character was downvoted and this really shouldn't be getting used on a trope example, since it's YMMV and all.
From A World Half Full:
- The DC Universe and Marvel Universe (the mainstream ones anyway) arguably fit this description. Both of them are full of terrible beasts from beyond the veil, ruthless alien conquerors, cunning and vicious demons out for souls and blood, charismatic and savvy villains who look cool even when they make life worse for everybody else, masters of dark magic, scientists with absolutely no regard for ethics or safety, insane and insanely powerful machine gods, multiple crime syndicates with access to any combination of the above, and plenty of good ol' fashioned human evil. But even at their lowest points, the heroes of both universes never stop fighting evil, the occasional Heroic BSoD aside. And despite the prevailing All of the Other Reindeer attitude the people of both universes (especially Marvel) display most of the time, plenty of people (not just humans) are decent enough to justify the heroes' efforts to defend them. A brief dialogue from Superman: The Animated Series sums it up (paraphrased):
Superman: You came after all. What changed your mind?Doctor Fate: You. You didn't have a chance, but you went back [into the fight] anyway. You reminded me that it's not just the forces of evil that never give up.
Doesn't refer to a specific character we upvoted and again, is using a YMMV pothole on the example line of a trope.
From Abandoned Warehouse:
- Supernatural: Crowley is fond of using abandoned warehouses, factories, and hospitals as his bases.
Character upvoted but YMMV use on example line.
From Absurdly High-Stakes Game:
- Future Diary has characters betting their diaries and lives on a simple coin game with even odds. The game gets complicated because the diaries involved can tell the future — including the outcome of the coin game, and destroying a diary kills its owner. Magnificent Bastard Aru Akise manages to win even though he's the only one playing who can't predict the future.
Doesn't belong in main page and Akise is more of a Guile Hero anyways.
From Acceptable Professional Targets:
- Discworld Lord Vetinari, Magnificent Bastard par excellence, the completely ruthless ruler of Ankh-Morpork, only has two emotional anchors to the world: Love for a small terrier named Wuffles, and a deep hatred of mimes. note Vetinari lets anyone who doesn't interfere with the smooth operation of the city go about his/her business in peace, and has offered both the Thieves and Assassins to go legit, but push your hands against an invisible box and you will spend the rest of your life chained upside-down to a dungeon wall.
Use in main page.
From Ace Pilot:
- Babylon 5:
- Several of the main characters were portrayed as pilots of some skill. Sinclair, Sheridan, Ivanova, and Garibaldi all had Ace Custom starfuries featuring distinctive Nose Art. Marcus and Lennier both piloted White Stars through numerous battles. Londo Mollari bragged about being such a pilot, and on one occasion got to handily prove it in a shuttle dodging Anti-Air missiles like it was no big deal (he could be extra daring since he already knew how he would die and it wasn't for years). G'Kar led a patrol of Narn fighters to Z'Ha'Dum and was the only one to survive a battle with the Shadows. Even some of the villains qualified, such as Mr. Bester, who had his own elite telepath fighter squadron, the Black Omega Squadron, as his own pet project. Sinclair is openly stated to be one, having flown a starfury in various battles of the Earth-Minbari War and not only survived but killed a discrete number of Minbari fighters.
Don't remember if we approved this character but again, use in main page.
From Achievements in Ignorance:
- The Belgariad:
- Also subverted in the fifth book, Enchanter's Endgame, by Queen Islena of Cherek when ruling in her husband's stead. Following suggestions of a fellow queen-slash-Magnificent Bastard, she orders a priest trying to usurp power to go to the front lines or be sent to the dungeons. Such an ultimatum would be completely unacceptable behavior for the monarch, except Islena isn't well known for her intellect and is assumed to be ignorant of her apparent faux pas. Unable to counter the queen's order, his take-over not yet ready, and with no actual legal grounds to protest, the priest is sent to war. And once the priest is there with the rest of the army, he really can't come up with a compelling reason why he should be sent home again. Especially since members of his radical sect claim to be fearsome warriors who aren't afraid of battle. Her husband King Anheg later admits that he could never have done this because he is expected to know better.
YMMV use on example line.
From Achilles' Heel:
- Norman Osborn, the current Big Bad of the Marvel Universe, has one rather serious Achilles Heel: he's a nutcase. As Osborn he's a twisted and brilliant Magnificent Bastard — and a sociopath. As the Goblin he's so batshit crazy he makes his Osborn side look well adjusted. As a result, it doesn't take much effort to get a Villainous Breakdown out of him. At one point due to some "nudging" by imprisoned psychics, just being reminded of Spider-Man led to Osborn pacing around in his office naked and ranting. And this is still saner than his Goblin persona.
Most versions count but YMMV use on example line.
From Activation Sequence:
- Rock and Rule has The Villain succeed in wresting away The Chick from her bandmates. The boys are sent packing while Mok begins a "departure sequence" that converts much of his mansion into a blimp, complete with deploying the ribs, inflating the helium sacs and detaching utility couplings. No mere Greyhound bus for this Magnificent Bastard.
YMMV use on example line.
From Actor/Role Confusion:
- One of the most common examples of this trope occurs with actors who play villains or antagonists. Some people refuse to have anything to do with them or will even criticize them, insult them or get violent when they meet them in the street. Especially if their character is an exception to Evil Is Cool; a person playing a Magnificent Bastard or even a horror icon won't get this as badly as a Smug Snake or Hate Sink does.
Delves into real life, YMMV use on example line.
From Actual Pacifist:
- Brutha in Pratchett's novel Small Gods. The totality of his violence is one punch near the end of the book to a man who almost started a war.
- Likewise, Moist von Lipwig is a con man and oftentimes Magnificent Bastard who is nonetheless much more comfortable with being threatened by violence than the other way 'round. He never physically attacks anyone, and becomes extremely nervous when put into the position to freely do so. He is so against violence that he's profoundly disturbed when his parole officer, the logical golem Mr. Pump, calculates his white-collar crimes have indirectly killed 2.338 people.
YMMV on example line.
From Actually Pretty Funny:
Some lines are so good even the humorless can't help cracking up. Whether it be the Magnificent Bastard's witty comeback or the Heroic Comedic Sociopath's cutting insult, much to the insultee's chagrin, or the Naïve Newcomer's innocent (or the Deadpan Snarker's not-so-innocent) observation, though by all standards being really low hanging fruit, still makes for a surprisingly sharp and clever quip.
- In Schlock Mercenary, Xinchub laughs at Tagon saying "innocent Marines". Tagon agrees that that's actually funny.
- Thomas the Tank Engine
- In "Dirty Work", Diesel spreads insulting stories about the other engines to try and frame Duck. When Gordon, James, and Henry confront Duck about calling them "a galloping sausage", "rusty red scrap iron", and "old square wheels", respectively, Duck simply tells The Fat Controller that the names are so fitting he only wishes he could take the credit. The Fat Controller himself almost chokes, trying not to laugh.
The first I'm fine with since it's part of the trope description but the other two are YMMV use on trope example lines and should go.
From Adam and/or Eve:
- The original comic Wanted - which is populated by expies and/or Captains Ersatz of the villains (and to a lesser extent heroes) of The DCU instead of the assassins' guild of the movie based on it - has Adam-One, the oldest man on Earth, a Captain Ersatz of Vandal Savage (an ancient, immortal caveman and Magnificent Bastard in the DCU). His name is obviously meant to imply that he's the first human being and possibly the Biblical Adam himself.
Ignoring the fact this is YMMV in an example, I seriously doubt anyone in Wanted of all comics qualifies.
From Adaptation Distillation:
- The prior Batman show, The Batman, also managed to get some of this trope in. The show's treatment of Hugo Strange, the Riddler, Poison Ivy, and especially Clayface are among some of the most well-regarded things in the show due to boiling them down to their most basic natures and then adding elements that made them stronger characters.
I don't recall if that version of Strange went up or nor but again, YMMV pothole on a main page example.
From Adaptation Expansion:
- When Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War was adapted into a manga by seinen author Mitsuki Oosawa, she decided to add more content and plot development. As a result, this adaptation covers a lot of characterization of the side characters and goes into more detail on what happens within the countries where the battles happen. For instance, it creates a rather big subplot on the... unique situation between Eldigan and Raquesis... Though at the cost of making Eldigan's wife a jealous bitch and omitting Raquesis's suitor Beowulf so she can have Finn as her Second Love. The Love Triangle between Lewyn, Ferry, and Sylvia develops relatively smoothly, and the losing girl (Sylvia) is given a far more sympathetic role; and it delves rather well in the psyche of the future Magnificent Bastard and Big Bad, Arvis of Velthomer, making him a Jerkass Woobie.
- Descent has been adapted into a trilogy of novels. The novels take the games' scant plot and turn it into several interlocking plotlines involving epic badass piloting, corporate politics made entertaining mainly by Dravis's upgrade from Corrupt Corporate Executive to full-fledged Magnificent Bastard, and a rather comical look at the plot through the aliens' note and robots' eyes/sensors.
Both constitute YMMV potholes in a main page example.
From Adaptation Name Change:
- Flash Gordon:
- Ming the Merciless is now Ming the Benevolent Father, although he's still quietly called "the Merciless" behind his back.
YMMV pothole on main example.
From Adaptation Personality Change:
- DC Extended Universe:
- Lex Luthor is very different than the comic version, being portrayed as a sort of Psychopathic Manchild; apparently the idea was to modernize him as an eccentric young tech billionaire, but most fans find him much less threatening than the usually calm Magnificent Bastard that he is in most modern adaptations.
YMMV pothole on main example.
From Adaptational Intelligence:
- Slade from Teen Titans is by no mean stupid in the comics, but he is more of a Hired Gun and mercenary more comfortable on the field, and while he can be good at manipulation, there are plenty villains more competent than him. In the Teen Titans cartoon, he is portrayed as a criminal mastermind and the show's biggest Magnificent Bastard.
Pretty sure we voted him down as an MB so I'll probably change that to Chessmaster or something.
From Adaptational Nice Guy:
- Game of Thrones:
- Tywin Lannister is a Magnificent Bastard Pragmatic Villain Jerkass who mistreats his own children in both versions, but his scenes with Arya in Harrenhal in the show bring out a softer and paternal side that's not present in the books. Also, Book!Tywin is an all-out misogynist who locks Cersei out of the Small Council because she's a woman. In the show he's still dismissive of her, but when she accuses him of sexism, he says he distrusts her not because she's a woman, but because she's a fool.
Forgetting about the first problem, we've already deemed no one in this series counts.
From Adaptational Villainy:
- Land of Oz:
- Likewise, the Wizard is not necessarily a good guy, and does several reprehensible things, but when Greg Maguire got his hands on Oz for Wicked, the Wizard became a power-seeking, first-rate Magnificent Bastard who exploits religious factionalism and Fantastic Racism to pit his potential enemies against one another, drive Oz into civil war, and start genocide of the sentient beasts as a cover for him trying to locate the Grimmerie and obtain absolute power.
YMMV pothole, main example.
From Adaptational Wimp:
- The Transformers: Combiner Wars: Menasor in the original cartoon is one of the strongest combiners, and easily one of the most effective Decepticons. As he defeats Bruticus and in his debut and he overpowered Superion, a rarity for a show where the Decepticons almost always lose badly. In the comics, Menasor is one of the weakest combiners. His debut fight with Superion is a Curb-Stomp Battle with Superion easily trouncing him and when the other Combiners show up, Menasor is defeated easily and subdued by a trio of regular sized bots. Coincidently Menasor's toy from the line that the comic is supposed to promote, is considered one of the most poorly designed.
- This applies to a lot of characters who are considered obscure or C-list, but their scant appearances beforehand wrote them as far more skilled. Boss of the Turbomasters is The Ace according to his bio, but he's usually a Red Shirt the few times he appears. Japanese leader characters like Metalhawk, Star Saber, and Dai Atlas lose their fantastical Super Robot skills in favor of being, at most, somewhat stronger than the average Transformer. And Magnificent Bastard Emirate Xaaron was made a glorified extra who is only occasionally implied to hold anything like the high position he did in the original comics.
Again, YMMV example on the main page.
Before I purge these, can someone confirm with me that a YMMV pothole doesn't belong on a main page example? I know it's a no-no on work and character pages and I'm just assuming the same goes for the main pages. Anyways, doing that is really boring and that's all I've got in me for now.
Any more votes on Kurei? If not I think I'll start his write-up.
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.