Discussion Pantheon / TalesOfTheAlliance

About time you have a say in things. Yandere Quartet was made way before the Chick Magnet was formed. As for a story, it sounds decent, though I have no knowledge of High School DXD

Also, I'm adding new stuff to my former chapters, so come and check them out.

Maybe the two of them indirectly aid the Investigation Team in their hour of greatest need: they somehow throw a wrench into Joker's and Fake!Homura's plans without even realizing it.

That's a great idea. Most likely, Dark and Serpent-bearer Gentaro are shadows of Gentaro's true self. Pinkie Pie also meets up with Pinkameana as an attempt to put her down. Both of them accept that their are parts of them that they hate, but they would conquer it and become even stronger. Oh, this will work!

Since this story arc is tied to the great upheaval, I'm gonna add in some ideas for an aftermath arc, one that I've been foreshadowing for quite some time.

Story Name: "The Pantheonic Rebellion".

Reason for story: Justification to demote YHVH to a quasi-deity due to the events of SMT Strange Journey where he is sealed and has his power severely dimminished as "The Demiurge". The neutral ending of SMT 2 is implied to be the canon ending.

Story Synopsis: Ironic Echo to SMT 2 where YHVH attempts a Moral Event Horizon so heinous that it generates anger and fury across the pantheon to the point where many lawful, good, chaotic, and even some evil dieties (either for sympathetic personal reasons or Even Evil Has Standards) want him nulled. In this case, its something he plots on doing to Madoka. The masterminds of the rebellion are Cosmos, Philemon, Batman, Lamington, The Emperor of Man, Kane, Light Yagami, and David Xanatos.

The story is on three fronts: "Madoka Defense Front" in the Sisterhood base under attack by Metatron. Being defended by the Sisterhood, Lamington, Flonne, Artina, Cosmos, Philemon, Bat Man, Blade Wolf, Laharl, Etna, Raspberyl, Adell, Toki, Terra Branford, Bryan Mills, Harpuia, the Toku Base, the Sacred Knights, Sergeant Cyrus, Gaunt, Ciaphas Cain, Creed, 3 entire chapters of Adeptus Astartes (Space Wolves, Salamanders, and Blood Ravens), the Celestial Host, and army of Big Daddies and Big Sisters, 3 regiments of Imperial Guard (Cadian 8th, Valhallan, Tannith 1st and Only), The Guardians (Phantom, Leviathan, Fefnir) 9 Baneblades, 4 War Hound Scout Titans, 2 Warlord Titans, 1 Emperor Titan, and the Old World Lizardmen.

The "Fog of War Front" which is a massive skirmish on YHVH's realm designed as a diversion. This attack is done by the Tyranids (seal was broken by Xanatos) Kratos, Omega (locked in a cage until the battle), and the Brotherhood of Nod. Unbeknownst to YHVH and even the Rebelllion (except Light Yagami), YHVH's high level commanders on this front have all been infected with Hinimizawa Syndrome. The "Deep Strike Front" has The Emperor of Man, Leman Russ, Vulkan (Primarch), Goku, Gohan, Bills, Sonic and Shadow (in Super form), Zero, Gig, Overlord Zetta, Optimus Prime (in Revenge of Fallen upgrades), Superman (with X-Kryptonite and a blue star powering him up), Lord Kroak, Oyashiro-Sama, Asura (in Destructor form), Kenshiro, and Tyrant Valvatorez taking the fight to YHVH directly.

Ending: YHVH is arrested for crimes against creation. Eiki Shiki judges him "Black" and calls him out for being the blackest soul she's ever met. Illuvatar himself appears at the trial, calls out YHVH for being a disgrace to creator gods everywhere and personally metes out the sentence to demotion, restrainment in a stockade, and forced to march into The Disgraces (all while being pelted by rotton tomatoes thrown by the entire pantheon. Lucifer also gets his communpence for "The Great Upheaval" due to Trollkaiger framing him for "The Most Dangerous Troll" which causes Overlord Zenon to go on a rampage and take her wrath out on him for all eternity. Discord still furious over an attack on Fluttershy mets out some "Goofy Time" and usurps command of the Chaos Pantheon.

Boyyyy...YHVH's NOT going to like getting called out. I can see him throwing the mother of all tantrums when he gets the verdict.

YHVH: Thou...judgeth me...and find me WANTING? Thou art...who dost thou...?!? WHO DOST THOU THINK THOU ART?!? Thou...thou insolent, arrogant little WHORE! THOU CALLST THYSELF A JUDGE?!? Imposing thy twisted morality, what gives thou the right?!? YOU ARE NO SERVANT OF LAW! I AM LAW ITSELF! MY WILL BE DONE! BOW BEFORE ME! WORSHIP ME! HONOR MY NAME: I AM YHVH! I! AM! THE ONLY! GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!

Still, considering the natures of YHVH, Lucifer, and the pantheon itself, I don't see the verdict sticking: the will of the cosmos WILL eventually return YHVH's powers to Him, and Lucifer could merge with someone to regain the abilities Zenon beat out of him, like he did in SMT IV. YHVH may be out of the picture in his series proper, but he has enough sway to command His legions and orchestrate regular Conceptions. It's stated right in his profile that death and imprisonment have no true power over him.

Seeing as this is a Pantheon story, I'd say the best course of action is that after both Lucifer and YHVH get their butts kicked, they naturally recompose themselves and regain control of their respective houses.

Also...Quasideity? Demiurge is in NO way a Quasideity. He may not be as strong as YHVH was at the height of His power, but he's still at the very least a Greater God.

Okay, now how does this all add to the Gentaro/Pinkie Pie stories again?

Idea: through their shenanigans, lulzy misadventures and stuff, they are the ones who end up being the first to find out about YVHV's horrifying new plot, thus unintentionally being the cause of "The Pantheonic Rebellion".

[[up]][[up]] The verdict has massive potential to be a Crowning Moment Of Funny if done right.

I do however have an idea to work around that in order to make karma stick. Illuvatar does to the will of the cosmos what Homura did to the Law of Cycles in Rebellion Story: Delete the memory of YVHV from the will of the cosmos. Its intrinsically in my style to make sure commumpence is harsh for a Complete Monster or other type of scum bag. That, and I'm a firm believer that Status Quo Is God is an inherently bad trope. Sort of like the final twist for my idea on how to punish Lucifer via a Cliff Hanger Ending: after Discord beats the crap out of him and usurps the Chaos Pantheon, the camera shifts to reveal a shadow hanging over Lucifer's broken and damaged body. That shadow of course belongs to Overlord Zenon.

Edit: Just came up with something beautiful for the verdict while in "The Jon".

After YVHV's tantrum, Eiki calmly gives him the mother of all Shut Up, Hannibal! lectures about the point of law. It includes fundamental truths about how change, evolution, adaptation, and ESPECIALLY free will are intrinsic natural laws and if YVHV's colosal ego won't comply with that, then he is unfit to represent law.

That got inspired by what I believe to be the aesop SMT is trying to teach us via the neutral ending often being the better ending. Both law and chaos have valid points and their function within the universe, but either one taken to extremes is destructive to life and the universe, which is why a balanced approach is more hospitable to a happy future

Thinking about it seriously, I can't help but feel as if we're overblowing the heinousness of YHVH's newest plot. I mean, this is coming from someone who is Neutral/Chaos and who hates hates HATES YHVH. Don't get me wrong, it's horrible, but compared to the nuking of Japan, the Conceptions or the Infinite Abyss, the murder of one rival is pretty small potatoes. Overall, I'm having doubts whether it would unite the whole Pantheon against him on the level of what happened in SMTII. At this point, Satan would probably still be on the Great Will's side, saying Madoka was raising herself as a false messiah: killing someone like that he could easily get behind. I wouldn't even go so far as to call it a Moral Event Horizon all things considered. Low-down and dirty, yeah, but not a Moral Event Horizon.

Overall, it would get the whole of the GUAG against Him, and maybe a couple of others, but the GUAE would be rallying behind YHVH to help Him take Madoka down. Threatening her life is not NEARLY the worst thing he's done, and not even close to bad enough to get the angels to hate him like what happened in SMT II.

Besides, in order to pull something off like erasing YHVH from existing, the fundamental nature of mankind would need to be radically altered: YHVH's the result of humanity wanting SOMETHING to cling to, in order to protect and guide them. As long as mankind wants that SOMETHING, it will recreate the being we know as YHVH: it's not as if worship of him specifically is what restores him, it's the basic yearning for protection. Lucifer is much the same: so long as humanity gives in to their desires and ambitions, that will manifest as the Demon Lord.

Here's how I see it going down:

Eiki finishes her "The Reason You Suck" Speech to YHVH, then proceeds to hand down her sentence.

Eiki: Get the hell out of my courtroom.

Everyone's jaw hits the table.

Eiki explains that she doesn't want mankind to be forcefully altered to destroy YHVH: nothing would excuse something like that, not even getting rid of Him. Doing so would make them just as bad as He is.

For the time being, Mankind needs both God and Lucifer: both Law and Chaos have valid points and function within the universe. You cannot destroy one OR both: they represent vital parts of existence. It is what lies between them that is truly "White", and "White" cannot be defined without "Black".

In conclusion, Eiki says, even though she believes YHVH is "Black", destroying Him would mean doing something that would do more harm than good. She wants to. She really, REALLY wants to be done with Him for good, but she has to let Him go: not even she has the authority to order something of the magnitude of recreating the human mind by force.

But she gives YHVH a solemn warning: bear in mind what happened to him. Live with the agony of defeat, with the realization that he failed to kill a defenseless little girl, and the knowledge that if he tries it again, he'll be struck down again, and again and again, as many times as he tries. The illusion of his Omnipotence is no more.

Eiki: THAT is your sentence, "Great Will".

YHVH, utterly humiliated, goes to leave the courtroom. But just as He gets to the door:

Eiki: "That Flaw in the universe IS out there. We may just find it yet. Turn you back to however you used to be. You were a White soul once. I know there is still good in you...YHVH."

For a second, YHVH hesitates, a strange look in his eyes. Then he shakes it off and storms out of the courtroom.

As for Lucifer...Zenon kicks his ass and Discord decides to try to usurp him. Unfortunately, Discord forgets about Lucifers' new...friend.

God, I need to take a shower...I can't believe I just defended the Great Will...

Lucifer I can't say crossed the Moral Event Horizon either. Yes, he did, or helped do something really nasty to a good person. But at the same time, I can't call it unforgivable: it's par for the course for him, good intentions with ambiguous means. When approached, he states that Madoka nearly turned into Gretchen and destroyed the Pantheon: she was tested and came uncomfortably close to being shattered. It's better that she is removed from power for a bit and takes some time to learn from her mistakes, rather than have her powers fall short at an inopportune time, like against Melkor or Johan. Better she makes her mistakes now, by the hand of someone who truly wants to help her, before she REALLY has to pay for it. Did he do something nasty? Yes. Did he do it to someone painfully sweet and kind? Yes. Did he do it out of malice? No: he revealed a nasty flaw with dubious methods. Was it necessary? Perhaps. In the end, it can be argued that Madoka may just come out stronger for it...

Homura finds out something about the Magatama she used to steal Madoka's powers didn't work 100 percent, as seen when Madoka starts getting her memories back. Lucifer tells her he wasn't about to steal ALL of her power: she still has the chance to break free of Homura's Guilded Cage and regain her glory, and when that time comes she'll be strong enough to stand without Homura having to protect her.

I have my own suggestion, Melkor and Nyarlathotep pissed that they've been upstage decide to take out YHVH and Lucifer themselves in a case of Eviler than Thou. With some help from Yog-Sothoth, they trick YHVH and all his angels into entering a portal that they've been led to believe will lead them directly into the House of Magic, without having to fight their way through all its defenses BUT in reality, it will lead them very, very far outside The Multiverse, into a dimension where they have no real power in and then have Yog-Sothoth seal the portal, trapping them there.

Melkor then calls upon the full might of GUAE and lays siege to Lucifer's temple with the fury of all the forces (INCLUDING all the members it has outside the Pantheon) behind him. And while he is powerful and extremely cunning, even Lucifer will fall before the sheer raw destructive power and the combined intellect of hundreds of Evil Geniuses and Magnificent Bastards pitted against him. They succeed in killing him (He comes back to life in five or six months after this which is enough time to get him out of everyone's hair.) and then proceed to storm wherever Homura's being held, brake her out and demand that she becomes one of them. And having come to accept that she has indeed become the villain of the story, she joins them without a fight.

@ krim: That's a good idea. Much much better than the original idea of the Ironic Hell of a free will hating tyrant being forced to watch people enjoying the benefits of free will for all eternity. This coming from someone who on a personal level tends towards Neutral/Law (basically what that means to me is that I believe in the force of law as a concept designed to guide and protect the greater good/sanctity of life, that the benign aspects of Chaos are a good thing, free will is essential for law to even exist, and that the destructive sides of law and chaos must be stopped).

I guess this also brings up the point of duty vs selfishness which could loosely mirror Order Versus Chaos. Personally, I'm inclined to believe in a balance (somewhere in between pure duty and neutral) since excess of either is destructive (excess of duty in very subtile ways I'll talk about now). Excess selfishness is obvious. Excess duty is destructive to a hero's morale. Can't protect people when you're the one about to snap/break down as your own morale tanks. Then there's the effects on those who love you. What do you think will happen to their emotional state/morale when they constantly have to see you suffer?

In regards of GUAE involvement in the rebellion, I'm inclined to believe that the Anti-Villain members (like Dr. Eggman, etc.) would join in a sense of Even Evil Has Standards. Trying to destroy a symbol of hope is a pretty rotten thing to do.

Okay the Pinkie Pie story can accidentally lead to the YHVH plot (her stories are called party of the Apocalypse/Armageddon), but Gentaro's is much more different...unless...

Lucifer made a deal with Chrysalis that he'll let her get vengeance on the Mane 6 by giving her power. Chrysalis does so by getting Ryusei/Meteor to work for her and kill Gentaro, weakening the Kamen Rider Club—as Gentaro's powers are shown to be powered by Friendship, like the Elements of Harmony—and then brainwash them to be her pawns, using friendship as a substitute love source. What she DOESN'T know is that Lucifer is also bringing in an alternate Gentaro—based on a fanfic that has a page here called Horseshoes and Hand Grenades—as his avatar and wreak havoc. What he DIDN'T know was Alice and Undertaker resurrecting him into two parts, one creepy and innocent, the other dark and brooding.

Pinkie's story intertwines with Gentaro's—seeing as she is one of Chrysalis's targets—and both parties of the Gentaro and Pinkie Pie stories collide eventually.

Well, does that make sense? I'm open to any and all suggestions.

What does Lucy have against the Mane Six?

The Elements of Harmony, for one thing. Not to mention that we have Fluttershy's friendship with Discord. He wants to prove that the elements won't always be there to save the day. And if Chrysalis got her hands on those, she'd be unstoppable (she beat Celestia in a battle because she absorbed so much love from Shining Armor in the show) and nearly got the Elements if Princess Cadence and Shining Armor didn't stop her on time.) Lucifer is convincing Chrysalis to act on the power of hate, not on the power of love that she usually goes for.

Adding more ideas to the "Pantheonic Rebellion" story arc, including something with potential to be a Crowning Moment Of Funny if written right.

New Additions to YVHV's forces (Called the Harbingers of Tyranny): Megatron (Deep Strike front), Star Scream (Madoka front), Blitz Wing (Madoka front), Dark Side (Deep Strike front), Emperor Palpatine (Deep Strike front), Perfectio (Madoka front), King Sombre (Madoka front), Altena (Madoka front), Copy-X (Madoka front).

New Additions to "Rebellion" faction: Mr. Freeze (Madoka front), Guts (Madoka front), Lambadelta (Madoka front, much to the shock and surpise of the Sisterhood, potential for lulz is high given her trolly tendencies), Sanguinus (Deep Strike Front), Super Girl (Madoka front), Dick Grayson/Tim Drake (Madoka front), Spider Man (Madoka front), Hulk ("Deep Strike" front, apparently trying to murder a representation of hope triggered the very worst rage Hulk has ever had), Alpharius (Fog of War front, participant in the stealing and distribution of Hinimizawa Syndrome). Note: the Horus Heresy Novels leave plenty of room for interpretation that Alpharius is actually LOYAL to the Emperor, albeit in an extremely sick and twisted way. No one knows the truth but Alpharius, not even his own legion.

New Military forces deployed ("Harbingers of Tyranny"): The Deceptacons (Madoka front), Yellow Lanturn Corps (Madoka front), Imperial Storm Troopers (Madoka and fog of war front), Planet Apocalypse Legions (Madoka and Fog of War fronts), the X-Forces (Madoka front).

New Military forces deployed ("Rebellion"): The entire Blood Angels Chapter of Adeptus Astartes (Madoka front), The Autobots (Madoka front), The Green and Blue Lanturn Corps (Madoka front), Alpha Legion (Chaos Space Marines, Fog of War front)

This mean that all of these Madoka Fronts are spies?

^ No dear sir. Basically there are three major fronts to the whole war.

1. The Madoka front is a battle taking place within the Sisterhood's domain of operation. This is a direct offensive campaign done by the "Harbingers of Tyranny" (deities and military forces) faction with the objection of giving Madoka a Fate Worse than Death. The "Rebellion" faction (deities and military forces, for example FOUR entire chapters of [[{{War Hammer 40000 Adeptes Astartes]] is trying to protect her.

2. The Fog of War Front is a diversionary attack against YHVH's realm. Serves as a distraction for the third and most important front below.

3. The Deep Strike Front is a whole bunch of "Rebellion" faction deities trying to defeat/arrest YHVH via a direct teleporation based surprise attack.

Got some more ideas on how to make the comumpence harsher.

For YVHV, after he leaves the court, he gets assaulted by a mob of vigilantes consisting of The Basterds (beating him with baseball bats for hours on end), Garrus (sniper rifle pot shots), Cyrus (the same), and Hulk (who slams him around before saying "Puny God"). No one (not even the lawful gods) cares enough to intervene because he's so despised.

Going to need ideas to make Lucifer's fate equally harsh, but one indea includes Trollkaiger recording the whooping he gets from Zenon, doing some embarassing video editing, and putting it up on youtube, doing some major damage to his pride. The video quickly goes viral, with the Sisterhood getting some major lulz off of their new enemy getting humiliated. The lulz stop when the pantheon realizes two things. 1. Zenon has come out. 2. Shes on a pantheon wide rampage.

This allows a sequel hook for two story arcs:

-1. A side story (Operation Outbreak) being developed in which Wesker and Nurgle get their hands on Hinimizawa Syndrome (way to go Alpharius).

-2. A main story arc with Overlord Zenon as the Big Bad.

Here's an idea for another arc:

Reality And Sues (Reality Ensues)

It opens with Lieutenant Mary Sue slowly waking up, realizing she's being dragged along the ground by someone. That someone is Ebony, who took her by surprise and knocked her out, and is dragging her to a PPC Reality Room seeking to punish her for turning against the Disgraces. Mary Sue manages to fight back, holding Tara off long enough for a couple of PPC agents to help her out, and together they shove Enoby into the Room.

Unfortunately, Egogy, by virtue of being Black Hole Sue incarnate, starts overpowering the Room, which overloads trying to compensate. The ensuing power surge between the two forces tears them BOTH apart, and the Reality Room explodes.

From out of the rubble SOMETHING appears: a mindless, rapidly-twitching, blank-eyed, glowing ghost of Ebory. The creature's very presence starts to dissolve the very Pantheon. From a safe distance, the PPC realizes that they've created a physical manifestation of Reality Ensues and set it loose on the pantheon. The being has the power to "impose reality" and deconstruct ANYTHING even remotely idealized: de-powering or destroying it altogether. It is the literal antithesis of a Sue.

The weight of the situation is hammered home when Dream starts to fade away.

The Pantheon must try to find a way to destroy the creature before fiction itself ceases to exist.

Come to think of it, I'm curious to know how Madoka herself would react to all of this. I mean, let's recap. She's lost her powers when her BEST FRIEND in all of creation betrayed her, and now everyone is risking their lives to protect her from the physical incarnation of tyranny while she can do NOTHING but run away. Sound familiar? Can't be good for her self-esteem, which was already her biggest failing. On top of that, her Sisterhood's falling apart with all the infighting. THEN she receives news that the White ascended, succeeded in breaking a bunch of her apostles, who then proceeded to try to to destroy reality and got torn apart by Flynn and the Demifiend.

I'd say there's plenty of opprutunity for heart warming. When you think about, many who are fighting in the war are doing so on behalf of everything she believes in (especially HOPE), which says legions about the level of influence Madoka still has. This is equally about preserving her ideals as it is about protecting her.

As for Lucifer's role in all of this. Having to deal with a certain upstart in the House of Otherness. The kicker twist fate: becoming the scapegoat of the pantheon, being blamed for Zenon (any Nipponverse fan knows just how nightmarish and terrifyingly powerful she really is) being out on a rampage. He may be innocent of the act, but what Trollkaiger did (the framing) combined with being the mastermind of The Great Upheaval means that no one believes or trusts him anymore.

How about we get finished on the Homulily arc before we kick off the Pantheonic Rebellion plot?

Come to think of it...that means Homura's intentions backfired right in her face! If Madoka remains a symbol for the GUAG, she could very well remain a target, and NOW she can't defend herself, making her an even more tantalizing prize for the GUAE!

So to recap, Homura has made herself look like a monster to the entire pantheon, thrown away her friendships, pissed off the Great Freaking Will, and made Madoka an even BIGGER target. A winner is you, Homhom.

But anyway, I still don't know if Madoka would just take this lying down. I can see a scene where she attempts to give herself up to the Forces of Law so they stop hurting her friends.

As for Lucifer, if you're really going for punishment, you'll have to do a LOT more than "Bad PR". The guy is more than used to it, and there will be always, ALWAYS someone willing to work with him. Bad PR works against YHVH simply because His ego simply can't handle it. Lucifer is a Magnificent Bastard par excellence: he can simply bide his time until he can get his PR back up. Might take a while, but it's not impossible. He can wait. Hell, his worst Villainous Breakdown has been: "WHAT?!? How...? Oh well...minor setback. I'll be back eventually."

Besides, at the end of the day, he's gotten what he wanted: a new general. One thoroughly loyal to him, and with Main House Deity level power considering who she stole it from. And with Madoka still in danger, he has the means to direct her wrath at any enemy he pleases, so long as he knows what to say. Hell, he could send her up against Zenon and take credit for it!

In the end, I think Lucifer won. At worst, he got hit with a setback he didn't see coming, but he can work around it.

@Hotman X 32

That was the idea. The Homulily arc is actually what spurs it: Madoka's extremely close shave when Nyarlathotep and Joker nearly turn her into a witch drives Homura to take Lucifer's offer.

Now that you mentioned it, looking into this further this was unintentionally a Xanatos Gambit by Lucifer. If Homura does not use the box he gave her to take Madoka's powers, the GUAE wins flat out. If Homura does take the box, The Sisterhood has lost a major ally, and all ties with Homura are cut. He may indeed get his karma, but he wins no matter what the situation is.

Actually, Homura using the box had nothing to do with the Homulily arc's resolution. The Investigation team, Mami, Kyoko and Sayaka all work together to save Madoka after Homura turns into Homulily and starts laying waste to the Puella Magi. Nyarlathotep's plans fail when Madoka blows him to bits.

After the fact, Homura does some thinking and then takes Lucifer up on his offer, so that such a thing never happens again. Considering how easily Madoka was fooled, Homura's pretty much declared her too trusting and naive. Seriously, Madoka, you could have found out Homura wasn't herself with ease, but you took it at face value. Idiot.

Overall, it's less of a Xanatos Gambit and more of a really cruel Batman Gambit: make Homura all paranoid with this doomsday prophecy, and then watch her flip out when Madoka inevitably stubs her toe or something. Had she turned him down, he wouldn't have gained anything, but at the same time he wouldn't have LOST anything. And he wasn't hoping to hand the GUAE a victory for their sake. All he wanted was a new general, pure and simple. He holds no malice toward the GUAG, the Sisterhood, or even Madoka herself. They just happened to have been on the wrong end of his plan this particular time. Nothing Personal.

Remember, the guy is Chaos, not Evil.

Just thought of an idea to give him his conumpence in a way that really punches him below the belt.

It involves YVHV's trial, in which Metatron also gets the tongue lashing from Eiki, she basically praises Lamington for being a paragon of what Law should be, especially law as enacted by a "White Soul". That combined with being a humble, wise, and benevolent boss causes A LOT of defections in YVHV's legions over to Lamington's side.

How does it hurt Lucifer you ask? The concept of "White Law" starts to gain hold in the universe, which drifts more souls towards law. When one thinks about it, the thing about chaos is that only the most malicious and destructive amongst them have any true beef with Reasonable Authority Figure style order (which is what "White Law" basically is). The kind that tries to balance the needs of the many with the needs of the individual. This in turn becomes a giant "nut punch" to his influence over humans. And this downfall was all part of a plan enacted by Lamington and Philemon for the rebellion in order to give the Sisterhood some payback. This humiliation is on top of being hunted down for all eternity by the insanely powerful psychotic cannibal that even terrifies Laharl and Etna. That later part wasn't part of the plan.

As for Madoka's concerns, that can he handeled via a scene called "A soldier's duty" in which Madoka, Zero, Harpuia, Vulkan, and Toki have a talk about duty. Zero (who in many ways is actually A LOT like Homura) and Harpuia bring up Ciel and X, two people who were very much like Madoka. A point gets brought up in which the duty of people like Madoka is to lead the way towards a brighter and more hopeful future. For soldiers like them, its their job to safe guard and protect that hope, so don't fret about them fighting for her. All these people are here because they choose to be and they believe in her.

Thanks for reminding me that he's Chaos and not Evil. Whoo boy, Nyarly's gonna have a good laugh when both Lucifer and The Great Will are defeated. Not to mention, I'm assuming Larharl, Gig, Zetta, Etna, Flonne, Mao, Valatorez (I hope I spelled that right), and a few of their allies will team up to stop Zenon.

Does the majority of the Council of Shadows discreetly have a hand in all this besides Batman, Kane, Light Yagami (Why is Light even involved?) and David Xanatos? If so, I can see a story arc coming from this. We already the aforementioned Co S Gods involved in this somehow.

Light was a very early idea, but looking back, I don't think it will work.

It's spelled Valvatorez, but yeah, you almost had it.

As per the ending of the "Madoka Front": The Harbingers of Tyranny get tactically routed. Metatron gets desperate and plans his own "Deep Strike" to grab Madoka. The chamber containing Madoka contains her casually playing Texas Hold'em with Philemon, Bat Man, Cosmos, and a Disgaea Magic Knight with the game table surrounded by her regiment of Temple Guard and Chakax. Metatron teleports into the room, with Lamington in his calm voice saying "Right on cue" before giving him a verbal pwnage about how due to he and his master's arrogance and ego, the war was doomed to failure before they even moved their troops. And now the final piece of the trap has been sprung.

Cosmos: It's game time, "trump card".

• Metatron notices it getting unusually hot behind him. He (while under the effects of Chakax's little chromomancy key) turns REALLY slowly, only for it to be too late, as he gets punched in the face by a burning fist, Adell's fist to be exact. This fist is but the first shot in a salvo infamously known as "Vulkan Blaze". Max Upgrade enhancement (640%) + Fair and Square (30% when attacking one person) + Elemental Force (75% due to his fire affinity) + Big Sister personality Magic Knight at the game table (20%) + S rank attack (at least 350%) = 1115% damage bonus.

Since Adell in this case has perfect rank 40 fists on, that equals Metatron being one shoted before he even got a chance to act. He then has a massive temper tantrum over getting his rear handed to him by a human. (He's not, but he has been kept out of the loop, not to mention Word of God saying that he has a birth defect in which his ears didn't form properly which makes his claim to be human merely factually wrong rather than a lie). Batman then gives him the "Arkham City Interrogation" before knocking him out and arresting him for crimes against creation.

Have an idea on how to make the "Reactor Incident" less awful: Virtuous (House of Life and Death) copied Madoka's technique, used it on the PM casualties and has been trying to keep things stable from behind the shadows until Madoka returns to power. Madoka of course is not to be told any of this until after she returns to power. Virtuous like Batman and Lamington is a master schemer, Guile Hero, and manipulator.

Perhaps she should replace Light Yagami (also add in Revolver Ocelot) as one of the masterminds (which makes it Lamington, Philemon, Batman, Cosmos, Virtuous, The Emperor of Man, Kane, David Xanatos, and Revolver Ocelot).

Eeh...I dunno. The Reactor Incident could be an indicator of just how bad things have gotten. Underscore the fact that Madoka can't bring the Puella Magi back any more. Besides, Flynn wouldn't allow them to be brought back anyway: they'll just attack the Reactor again.

Also, I have one more Mastermind for the Rebellion: I mean, come on, why WOULDN'T Lucifer stick his thumb in the pie! It's his chance to a. break in his new 'toy', b. kick YHVH's ass, and c. build his rep back up. Of course, the other Masterminds are going to try to be working against him while at the same time trying not to undermine their own efforts against YHVH, and HE knows they're going to be doing that, and THEY know HE knows, so...yeah.

This is the perfect opprutunity, but I was thinking this arc should be the mother of Yank the Dog's Chain momments for Lucifer as punishment (trying to be harsh as possible) for what he did to Homura and Madoka.

Just when his big chance comes, Satan starts acting up which forces his hand. Then Gabriel Belmont out for both of their heads gets involved causing a three way fight. Then comes Philemon, Cosmos, and Lamington's whole "re-image law via "White Law" kicking him in the balls where it hurts most. Not to mention Trollkaiger framing him for their trolling Overlord Zenon which causes him to nearly get Killed Off for Real. On top of that is becoming the pantheon scapegoat for Zenon's rampage, which makes any losses of rep suffered thus far completely permanent.

I have to wonder, will Lucifer aid the heroes in the Zenon incident build his rep back up? I can totally see him doing this, but the GUAG won't buy this trick thanks to the Great Upheaval. But still, even with Madoka depowered greatly, the Sisterhood won't be on the offensive as often. They may have to temporarily put Usagi in power to maintain the Sisterhood. She's the original Goddess of Magical Girls after all.

As harsh as may it may sound, Lucifer will immediately recover and will be up kicking again.

His aid won't be accepted by the heroes. That way he can continue to be blamed for Zenon's rampage and given no way to restore trust with anyone. His actions during the Great Upheaval are going to be taken personally by the GUAG, Sisterhood, and Madoka.

As a possible twist: what if some members of the GUAG (the more chaotic members) know Trollkaiger's the culprit for Zenon's rampage, but simply CHOOSE to blame Lucifer for it to punish him for the Great Upheaval? Since he's such a deceiver, perhaps it gets deconstructed by people just assuming he's just lying about his claims to be chaos not evil and branded Chaotic Evil.

I can see him calling them all out on it. And bear in mind, Madoka's THERE when he's making his proclamations.

Lucifer: You people...so in love with your "codes". *Mockingly* Is it 'right'? Is it 'moral'? Does it step on anyone's toes? Does it have enough fluffy, sweet-sounding words behind it? *Seriously* By the time you're done waffling over all those questions, the GUAE's in your backyard, and you haven't answered the most important one. You haven't even THOUGHT of it: Does it WORK? Well...did it? Did Madoka's means and methods alert her to Nyarlathotep's intentions, or even his presence? Did they drag her from the abyss when she was being forced to watch her best friend slaughter her Apostles? Did they grant her the foresight to keep Homura from stealing her powers?

No. They didn't. They FAILED. If not for the Investigation Team's timely, and shall I say miraculous intervention, the Pantheon would have been no more. It was lucky timing and fortuitous circumstance that saved everyone's lives.

Don't get me wrong. I know full well the power of hope. But is it not reasonable that hope be tested and shattered if found wanting? Is it truly beyond question? No. The power of hope is simply that: power. Any power, in the wrong hands, heralds suffering for ALL. In this case, it was in the hands of a human who had been deified even by the Pantheon's standards. A human who was believed, and who perhaps believed herself to be...infallible. A human, sad to say, with all-too-human failings. Naivete. Foolhardiness. Arrogance. Failings that had I and Homura not taken advantage of, would have been eventually done so by one who truly wished her ill!

Lamington: *Terrifyingly pleasant* Are you saying, Lucifer...that you did her a kindness?

Lucifer: That I did, Seraph. Stripped her of her powers before they inevitably exploded in her face! I have done as I always done: exposed a hard, ugly, naked truth: the illusion of her omnipotence, her infallibility is shattered. You can't hide behind honeyed delusions, not if you truly wish to protect those you care for. And if you can't handle the bitter truth...if you would place Honor Before Reason...if you'd sacrifice your lives and those you care for for sweet-sounding, empty ideals and a warm, fuzzy feeling inside...if you would put your fates in the hands of someone who simply can never, EVER, EVER BE QUESTIONED...! Then you have NO RIGHT to call yourselves leaders.

Some potential for a counter point: "The Blue Lanturn Paradox", or the "Zero Paradox". Great for a Shut Up, Hannibal! moment.

Basically it is something that is empty yet full of possibilities. Umineko and Persona4 talk about this. Hope is one of those things that fall under the Zero Paradox. Weak, fragile on its own (empty), but when backed by the courage and will to push foward is nigh unstoppable force (infinite).

Humanity is much like that when one thinks about it. For all of his talk about how much he values freedom and cares about humanity, Lucifer knows nothing in the end. Chaos is intrinsically self-destructive. Those who embrace it to its fullest, are themselves slaves. Slaves to their own desires, which ultimately leads to self-destruction and thus emptiness rather than infinite possibilities. All he manages to do is put people into chains.

True order is not about being iron fisted. It's about guidance, and thus REQUIRES freedom to be truly valid. Much like freedom requires discipline. I could just see the look on his face when his Hannibal Lecture gets countered. Due to the "Zero Paradox", all that was done was exposing what was ready known. In the end there was no shocking truth.

[[down]] We have the Council of Three in Ambiguity which is like neutrality and ALL of them are Rebellion faction.

That reminds me... I've thought of this one theory that Order and Chaos are two sides of the same coin; Order sees free will as evil and wants to destroy it and Chaos hates an unquestioned authority and collective conscious and see that as evil. There's no damn way Lucifer and YHVH would come to that conclusion as they both represent Chaos and Order respectively. By the way, do we have a head for the Neutrality House?

That little theory aside, Madoka will once again be broken. Had the Investigation Team not taken the other Puella Magi and conquer their witches from the inside, the Pantheon would indeed be finished, plain and simple. The only person from the top of my head, Kiritsugu Emiya would be amongst the few to agree with Lucifer.

I hate to say it, but Lucifer wouldn't quite be as shaken by that Shut Up, Hannibal!. If anything, he'd agree: he is the Rebel King, after all. A force of destruction and upheaval, that tears down the stagnant established order, so the humans with the will to do so can build a kingdom of their own. So they can do what he can not. Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, after all.

He LIVES for that moment, watching the new banner fly high over the wrecked city, watching the humans rebuild and make their ideas a reality, each crazier and more fantastic than the last. He can't wait to see what humans will come up with next.

Unfortunately, nothing lasts forever. Soon enough, the new and hip has become the established status quo. The subversive ways of thinking have become dogma, and the world begins to grind to a halt. "Order" starts to take over, as people cling to the familiar, and the temptation of escaping the terrifying thing called "Change" starts to summon the angels. It's time to knock the old sandcastle down and build a new one. An even BIGGER one! Give a new generation of strong people the chance to change the world. Sorry, old timers, you've had your chance. The times they are a-changin'. It's the youngster's turn now.

Out with the old, in with the new. Lather, rinse, repeat.

All things considered, the Law of Cycles has been around since the beginning of time. Madoka's had a pretty good run. But times are changing. Things have started to work against her that even she's having trouble against. Kyubey found out Madoka had lied to him about the Witch System using the Warp, which was the only thing keeping him from bringing it back in full. If the Magical Girls can start facing their inner darkness and bringing their Witches under control for good like Sayaka has, that would in essence make the Law of Cycles obsolete. And considering Nyarlathotep nearly broke the unbreakable Madoka, that would almost certainly embolden the GUAE to try again.

The once-'perfect' Law of Cycles is beginning to become untenable. There are chinks in its armor that simply cannot be ignored. Madoka's ways as they stand simply don't hold up anymore.

It's time for her to step down, and hand her scepter to the next in line. THAT is the way of the world, and not even she is immune. No matter how nice or selfless or adorable she is, they can't hold the world still just to spare her feelings.

Of course, she could always take a good long look at herself. Think about what might have gone wrong, and come up with ways to fix it. Come back stronger from that which did not kill her. When she does so, when she's stronger and better and willing to fight to take back her crown, Lucifer and Homura will be waiting for her.

He's looking forward to seeing what she comes up with.

@Hotman X 32

I guess it's cold comfort that Gretchen will PLUNGE in power level back down to an average humanoid shadow once she loses her abilities.

I can think of a few more people that would sympathize with Lucifer.

1. Bills. Despite his friendship with Madoka, he's no hypocrite. He knows full well that destruction is necessary for creation.

2. Archer. After spending time in the Phantom Zone watching Nyarlathotep make an idiot out of Madoka, his faith in her won't exactly be at an all-time high. It's more evidence that shallow idealism won't amount to much.

3. Kyouko. She'd keep her sympathies a secret, though: it's not worth throwing away her relationship with Sayaka.

Okay this is frustrating. Any ideas on how to punish him so that it gets as equally harsh (preferably via harsh ironic karmic punishment) as VHVH's punishment. In such a way that it gets around the whole Status Quo Is God thing that I personally find to be an annoying road block. I'm not satisified with the ending until he loses in such a way that he doesn't get to enjoy the thing he's been waiting for in a exceptionally cruel incarnation of Yank the Dog's Chain.

That's not gonna be easy. Again, the guy is a Magnificent Bastard par excellence. Destroying him is out out the question, and there will inevitably be people who support him. Shiki's Cruel Mercy of YHVH worked because the guy's ego bruises so easily, and he'll try again eventually (and get his butt kicked). It'd take more than that to get under Lucy's skin. I mean, even the closest thing he's gotten to a Villainous Breakdown happened in a game where he was overall REALLY out of character. Then again, his personality kind of swings around from game to game, him being a Nice Guy in SMT II and Raidou Kuzunoha King Abaddon and an Omnicidal Maniac in Nocturne...

For something like that, it should be based off of the outcome of what STARTED all of this. I mean, we've just finished Act 2 of Madoka's tale. We should wait to see what happens next and base it off of that. The closest thing to screwing Lucifer over that I can see is Homura turning on him and giving Madoka her powers back, and then nuking him from the face of the pantheon. Even then as per his own beliefs he wouldn't mind much. Heck, he'd probably be proud on some level that Madoka managed to bounce back from such a horrible scenario.

Overall, I'd say the optimal way to go is mirror the end of Rebellion as it stands. He gets away for it for the moment.

FOR THE MOMENT.

And then watch him void his bowels when karma catches up to him.

I think I managed to get exactly what I wanted in terms of metting out karma, thanks to some interview notes I read a while back. Seems Urobuchi has personally discredited the Lucifer analogy, saying that Darth Vader is a more accurate comparison. He says stuff about comparing PMMM to Star Wars (meaning we're in the Empire Strikes Back portion of the story with Season 2 being Return of the Jedi). Note: Empire Strikes back analogies are based off my own notes after reading the commentary.

The comparison makes LOTS of sense given that both had someone they cherished and wanted to protect through any means nessecary and a manipulative bastard that's the root cause of everything wrong that needed to be dealt with. Vader failed, Homura succeeded. I can just see the monologue before Homura's decision.

• Vader's words in her head, upon discovering that Kyubey found the truth and what he was planning to do, Homura realized she had no other choice but to do something drastic. "I will protect her. All of you, yes even you Sayaka deserve to be happy. For what I have to do, I'm....so....sorry. Forgive me for I won't be able to do so myself."

What does this mean for the pantheon: the true culprit behind Homura's fall was actually Darth Vader (perhaps in an attempt to Pet the Dog involving kinds words to someone in a situation like his own gone HORRIBLY wrong) with Lucifer trying to falsely claim credit for it all, which shall be exposed by Batman. She never used the item given to her, taking matters into her own hands after believing (correctly) that the Incubators are still a threat to Madoka.

Looks like we're going to have to rewrite the stuff regarding Homura AGAIN. Based on some very compelling evidence from Rebellion such as the flower conversation, being a master of the Jerk Ass Facade, hints all throughout the series that she sincerely cares about ALL the other girls despite her cold act, her feeling terrible about what she had to do, this is starting to look like a Zero-Approval Gambit, one that will most likely blow up in Homura's face....horribly.

Think about it, what kind of people pull such a stunt? Those who have self loathing complexes, which she most certainly has. Perhaps the only people truly in the know should be Itachi, The Boss, and Kroak.

Bear in mind, however, that when Urubuchi said that, it's very unlikely he'll be talking about the SMT, and thus the Pantheon's incarnation of Lucifer. The one from Christian mythology is the whiny, human-hating, "I'm-so-awesome-that-I'm-better-than-god-and-I-deserve-to-rule-everything" douchenozzle we'd see in Supernatural or Castlevania: Lords of Shadow. From that perspective, yes: Homura isn't like Lucifer. But from that perspective neither is, well...Lucifer.

As long as it has to do with overthrowing an established order, he's liable to have a hand in it. Already it's been established in the Gaiden chapter that Lucifer is preying on her fears of Madoka being hurt, which is really how Vader got HIS start as well. Besides, Vader has no way of stealing Madoka's power, while Lucifer gave her a magatama (the contents of the box) that would end up doing so. While Lucifer gave her the means, Vader's role could be the tipping point: Homura is arguing with herself over what to do after the Fear Toxin incident and the realization that Kyubey can bring back the witch system (Lucifer was the one who told him the truth in order to put the squeeze on Homura), and Vader's talk with her is the one who tips the scale and makes her mind up. A Duumvirate could be a good compromise. Everyone gets something out of it, even us: re-writing everything from scratch would be a pain.

[[up]] So you mean indirect benefits? Such as the two acting against the same enemy independantly due to said enemie's dickish actions, which would result in an indirect victory.

I do like the Vader analogy though as it IS pretty direct, right down to the self-loathing complex shown in those familiars and the tossed tomatoes.

This could work. Vader as a primary culprit with our chaotic bastard being the secondary culprit trying to take full credit for the thing.

It could even give Vader motive to join the Rebellion faction against Palpatine. He DID have a Heel–Face Turn in Return of the Jedi. The motive could be atonement for his actions being the cause of the Great Upheaval (trying to help someone because he was sympathezing with someone in his predicament only for it to turn into THAT, leading her to share in his fate). Perhaps even tell the Sisterhood that he suspects that something's not as they seem regarding Homura's actions, as if there's some hidden motive she's hiding from everyone.

-Edit: Seems we won't be getting season 2 til at least Q4. This is a problem cause I'm the sort of person who wants karma to be swift and brutal in narrative rather than let it stew and let people off the hook

I'd say it's the other way around. Lucifer gave her the means and motivations, Vader gave her the go-ahead. If she voices her concerns to Vader regarding Madoka's safety, it would hit REALLY close to home for him. He'd probably say "Louisa" has a good point, especially after the Fear Toxin incident. Between that, the prophesied Upheaval and Kyubey's machinations, he would say that Homura has a LOT of cause to worry. When she hears this, Homura makes up her mind and takes Lucifer up on his offer, using the Magatama.

By the way, where are you getting all this intel? I NEED MORE INFO ON S2! =D

I'm going to have to look long and hard for the Vader analogy, but it does exist straight out of Urobuchi's mouth

The S2 stuff came directly from the president of SHAFT who was in attendance at one of the US premieres of Rebellion. This coming from someone from Animesuki who was personally at the event about a month or two ago. It was in Georgia if memory serves correctly. Out of about 200 people who attended the event, it seems only about 5 seemed to be happy with the ending. The exact wording was something along the lines of "There are no plans to continue the series as of this time", which has been in interpreted as due to other projects in development which places S2 at Q4 at the earliest.

The audience reaction to the ending was a blooming funeral procession. i.e. the ending is still not exactly very well liked. Other known reactions from those who saw the ending include being depressed for days. Heck, merely reading the spoilers made me depressed for at least a day. Which is why I'm so strongly against giving a certain bastard even the slightest leiency in the karma department.

From the posts at animesuki, Zero-Approval Gambit and somewhere in between Zero-Approval Gambit and Well-Intentioned Extremist seem to be the most popular theories given the evidence, with her alignment at worst being labeled Chaotic Neutral.

Edit: I'm going to be taking that whole bowel voiding thing to heart, but not in the way meant. More like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fonu2Nic20 This in addition to any more ideas to torment the bastard.

It involves some VERY powerful, nigh undetectable laxatives and Arby's horsey sauce. The Sisterhood find out where his favortie places to get food are, high jack control of it, and place the uber laxatives in his drinks along with the horsey sauce in the hot foods. This happens EVERY time he places an order. The mastermind of this idea: The Sonozaki twins, Bugs Bunny, and Dead Pool (acting as delivery boy). And those were some VERY nice suits that got irreversably ruined too.

-Edit 2: It gets worse in terms of conumpence. I think its time The Club Members had their first showing.

Rika and Oyashiro get angry at finding out how Homura was manipulated. They talk to the club about it. Keiichi says something about knowing about it due to some of the things his new mentors said (both are amongst the masterminds of the rebellion). They go to Bat Man and Lamington about their idea, which involves going to the Court of the Gods about getting Lucifer stripped of his title on the grounds of a superior, rightful candidate for Lord of Chaos Incarnate. This candidate is a buddy of the Sonozaki Twins by the name of Dead Pool*. Lamington gives a quiet smile, impressed with the plan his new protegee concocted. After they leave, he has a conversasion with Flonne (who noticed the playful, affectionate, yet perverted antics Mion wasa doing to Keiichi) and Artina about how much humanity has matured.

Cosmos, Batman, and Lamington foward this plan to Madoka. She takes a trip to the Court. Atticus Finch, Phoenix Wright, and Miles Edgeworth help her out with the paperwork to make it nice and proceedurally correct. At the trial, Lucifer is found unfit and thus demoted to Fallen Lord of Chaos Incarnate with the title handed to Deadpool. He is carted off to The Fallen by the Sisterhood with a special leash like neck shackle (looks like a leash for added humiliation) given for Madoka to pull him with. And due to Eiki's word being final, there's NOTHING Homura can do about it. I can just see shocked, humiliated, and outraged look on his face when he gets utterately PWNED by the "human monkeys" he so loves toying with, and not only that, by kids too, and people who he didn't even provoke either. The Spanner in the Works to the master plan was an 11 year old girl who's falsely rumored to have demon blood. Note: Oyashiro is NOT a demon. She's a just a freak human born with horns and she's VERY sensitive. Looks like Lamington's kindness towards [[spoiler: her regarding her horn complex hit the Karmic Jackpot.

This is the perfect, harshest karmic backlash that could ever be done to him. "Get exactly what you want, but at the cost of EVERYTHING. That one little Batman Gambit rolled 00 on the proverbial roulette wheel."

• Deadpool above all else is the perfect embodiment of chaos. So random and insane that its impossible to know if he's making stuff up as he goes or planning everything. For example, he kills Sinister in the Deadpool game by spraying a red x on the ground at some point in the game, only for a Sentinel foot to fall on Sinister at the end. The act was done completely utterately RANDOMLY. His sense of morality so off the wall that pegging an alignment is impossible other than Chaotic. Not even Chaotic Neutral is accurate. Its impossible to predict what he's going to do, nor can he ever be manipulated either (not even a Magnificent Bastard can do it either). This is how he defeats Taskmaster in combat and its HILARIOUS too. Heck, not even the fourth wall can control Dead Pool either.

We can't Fall someone for something that happened in-Pantheon.

Those are the people who CANONICALLY get the short end of the stick, as in within their native universe. The Pantheon's one big fanfic, in essence, and their actions, while we try to keep them in-character, have no bearing on their status within their respective media, which is what has teeth when it comes to their placement.

Speaking purely and simply from that perspective, Lucifer has NOTHING to do with Mado Magi. You bring up SMT to Urubuchi and you'll probably get a "Huh?" in response. The events of that movie has NO bearing on the events of the SMT continuity, and vice-versa.

If we could just cart characters off to the courthouse and pitch them into the Fallen/Disgraces for being evil in-Pantheon, or just because we personally don't like them, there wouldn't BE a GUAE: that's not how those houses work. If anything, the only trials I can see coming are ones involving Madoka and Homura, because their roles have CANONICALLY been changed.

Look, I get you want Lucifer to pay for his actions. But I think you're giving him a bit of the Weasley treatment. Ease up a bit: there are people in the Pantheon who have done things WAY more depraved (looking at you, Johan). Heck, if I could see YHVH in the Fallen/Disgraces for trying to kill Madoka, I would. But it wouldn't be true to the nature of the Pantheon. He HAS a place as the Overdeity of Law, and even though I don't like him, I concede he best fits that role. If you remember, I defended the guy. Despite our personal feelings about the characters, it's their actions in their continuities that in the end matter, not their actions in this particular fanfic.

...Need we be reminded that the guy is Chaos but not Good or Evil?

PRECISELY. He is a force that overthrows preexisting systems so that the strong can establish new ones in its place. It just so happened that THIS time, he overthrew a system put in place by the most kind, loving, huggable, beloved goddess in the Pantheon.

Them's the breaks, Kaname. Sorry about your Law of Cycles. Nothing Personal.

Darn. Deadpool shenanigans had some real potential for lulz considering that its Dead Pool of all people.

Back to the drawing board on the conumpence part.

Decided to try a "back to basics approach". It takes the "Rika upset tells club about it" start of the previous idea and goes Screwy Squirrl meets Loony Tunes.

It involves the first outing of the trickster sentai team the Sonozaki Twins form to counter Trollkaiger. The team consists of Mion (yellow/leader), Shion (green), Princess Celestia (blue), Satako (pink), Bugs Bunny (white), and Dead Pool (red). The team decides to have fun with their "new friends" in an escalating barrage of pranks and practical jokes. Dead Pool just won't leave ol' louie alone and won't.....shut......up. That and fun with chimichungas, 4th wall trolling, spoiling his favorite books, etc. Satako does her traps, which always result in Homura getting hit by tomatoes. ANY form of joke from a Loony Tunes style humor approach you can think of, they do it. All the while Mion and Shion are getting it on camera.

At the end of it all, the twins put their antics on their youtube channel and email the sisterhood the link to the videos. The Sisterhood gets a real good laugh out of the cartoony pwning.

Perfect. The arc ends with Lucifer sitting in his throne, his eye twitching as he digs grooves into the arms with his fingernails as Deadpool chatters on about chimichungas, tomatoes fly in every direction and a bucket of water is upended on his head. The final sentence of the arc is:

Lucifer *Thinking*: They'll get bored eventually. They'll get bored eventually. They'll get bored eventually....

Now for the last bit.

What do we name the new team and what designation? Here's some ideas:

Time of formation: After Great Upheaval

Name: Prankster Sentai Lolkenger (sub section of Psyche Warfare

Mion Sonozaki: The Hero. Lolken Yellow

Shion Sonozaki: The Chick. Lolken Green

Celestia: The Lancer. Lolken Blue

Bugs Bunny: The Big Guy. Lolken White

Satako Houjou: The Smart Guy. Lolken Pink

Dead Pool: Sixth Ranger. Lolken Red

I suggest that if Trollkaiger is a spoof of a Sentai name, then this new counterpart should be a spoof of Power Rangers name. I dunno... LOL Rangers?

That's going to be a tough one to think of. Maybe Prankster Rangers L.O.L.

Part of me still has doubts about role designation due to abilities.

Mion in addition to being The Strategist (to the point where someone she beat up said she should be DELTA FORCE of all things) is also quite a competent martial artist (good for when trouble happens during their antics). One one hand, the Sonozaki family is feared yet she herself is very well liked in Hinamizawa.

Shion is also quite intelligent like her sister. Skilled with assault rifles. Manipulates individuals rather than groups (Mion's specialty)

Took a second to realize something was bugging me, from WAY back when. It's nothing major, just a naming issue.

You said that the Forces of Law would call themselves the "Harbingers of Tyranny". Just sounds a wrong note to me: I'm not sure YHVH's forces would call themselves that. It almost seems like they're making fun of themselves. Maybe "Harbingers of Order", or just "Forces of Law."

Can Archer escape get out of the Phantom Zone with Itachi's Command spell or no?

The one problem with "Forces of Law" is due to the alignment of a very huge chunk of the "Rebellion" faction. How can they call themselves Forces of Law when their opposisition (including most of its commanders) are themselves lawful? Maybe call them "The Regime" based on Injustice?

Harbingers of Tyranny was admitedly sort of a quick idea not throughouly thought out. I got the idea from how the members of YVHV's faction are themselves tyrannical and proud of it. The faction needs more members, preferably non Anti-Villain Lawful Evil characters.

Idea for Vader's defection: He starts out as a double agent (truly working for the Rebellion). When the timing is right, he gives the order for the 501st (in the Madoka front) to turn their weapons on the attackers. The AT-ATS and AT-S Ts were PURPOSELY placed in the rear and flank formations to cut off a retreat.

Idea for Metatron's trial: He tries to give a I Was Just Following Orders justification for his acitons. Magneto just happens to be in the court and his biggest Berserk Button has been pushed. Given how Metatron is mechanical, it's pretty obvious what Magneto does to him. The court brings in its new enforcer (who just got pulled out of The Fallen) Gabranth. With a response of "Yes my lady". He doesn't punish Magneto, he punishes Metatron for trying to use an invalid legal defense.

For Homura: perhaps she's conflicted as to either aid Madoka or deal with The Beast who was brought in by Satan in part of his upstart opprutunity to take advantage of the rebellion.

One last thing. I can't believe just how popular/hotly anticipated this planned arc is. Seems we've got other writers getting involved in dispersing forces. So far the Jaegar, both Highlanders, Captain America, Satan, and The Beast have been added to this story arc.

Oh-ho, Magnum...I think you're underestimating just how ARROGANT these guys really are.

They see Pheonix Wright, Judge Dredd, Eiki Shiki herself, everyone who is not explicitly on their side as an unabashed anarchist. They ARE Law, as far as they're concerned: THEY define what it means to be Lawful, and what it means to be Lawful in their eyes is blind worship of the Great Will. That ideology would (in their crazy world) land EVERYONE ELSE IN THE PANTHEON, barring perhaps Rayford Steele of the Disgraces, on the side of Chaos. Yes, it's blatant Moral Myopia on their part, but they would never consider anyone on the Rebellion side to be Lawful. Why? Because they're not on their side. They're fighting back, the bastards! If they were truly Lawful, they would hand the false messiah Madoka over so that she can face judgement, fall on their knees and beg for forgiveness! Where do they get off, calling themselves Lawful. They disagree with us! We ARE what it means to be Lawful! We ARE what it means to be Good! Anything else is Chaos and Evil! Hallelujah!

Yeah...The Lawful alignment I have no problem with, but I'm less than fond of THESE assholes.

That being said, Metatron wouldn't try to justify his actions like that. That'd probably get the Great Will REALLY pissed at him, since it comes across as Metatron knowing what he did was wrong and trying to throw his master under the bus. If anything, he'd try to call out Eiki. He's done nothing wrong! What is HER excuse for defying the Great Will!?? That's the REAL crime!

On and on it went for a full TEN MINUTES. At the last, when the angel finally stopped talking, Eiki stared blankly at him. She just stared without saying a word for a second or two. A vein bulging in her forehead was the only sign of her valiant effort to keep the scream building inside her suppressed. Screaming incoherently would have been unprofessional. Then she picked up her pitcher of water and held it out.

Eiki: Baliff, could you...could you get me something...stronger?

Um, not to interrupt this intriguing storyline but...does anyone need me to have MY story interlinked in some way? (Please PM me for this)

...What exactly is this colossal three-part Story Arc called, Magnum?

That aside, Finishing off what Krimzon stated, Someone reminds The Great Will that he's the embodiment of Law, but not Good or Evil, thus maybe driving HIM even more mad, and start sending his forces to neutralize them.

That out of the way, does Lucifer have a plan to get revenge against Trollkaiger? If not, then oh well. The idea was having Lucifer send Homura and his forces, partially assisted by LOL Rangers without their knowledge, to beat down Trollkaiger and then put it on youtube for all to see. But in actuality, Bernkastel reveals the Trollkaiger they struck down were decoys created by her, thus reverting it to the Status Quo. It may not seem like a good idea to some of you, but it seems decent, considering the bastards framed Lucifer for enraging Zenon.

Good idea. And here's one for the inevitable fight between the Magical Girl Sisterhood and the Forces of Law:

Everything's gearing up for the big battle. The Magical Girls and their allies are rallying behind Usagi, and are planning to hold the line to the very end. But just as the Forces of Law march on the Sisterhood Base, someone runs out onto the battlefield: MADOKA. Usagi commands her forces to hold their fire, and they watch in horror as Madoka approaches Mastema. She and Mastema are talking, and for a moment, it seems like the two of them are coming to some kind of agreement. It almost looks like things are actually going to end without a fight. Both sides start to relax as Mastema bows to Madoka and turns to address his troops.

Suddenly, a roaring blast of energy blows a hole in him, just barely missing Madoka's head. He blinks, then keels over

Usagi looks up in shock to see a brunette Magical Girl with her hand outstretched and smoking.

Usagi: WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!? I SAID HOLD FIRE!

Magical Girl◊: *Grin* Oops!

Usagi watches in horror as the "Magical Girl" vanishes, and screams of fury rise up from the Forces of Law.

No seriously, I really need to ask how I'm connected to all this. Anyone need me to write a specific scene or stuff so I don't feel like my story is just filler?

And thus, the acts sends Homura into action upon seeing a defenseless Madoka, unintentionally aiding the Sisterhood, while the brunette Magical Girl takes her leave. Then, either Batman, Cosmos, or Virtuous (likely the former or latter, possibly both, than Cosmos.) watches from afar and eventually discovers that something is off about the brunette Magical Girl, and starts an investigation with the deities not participating in the battle.

^^ Sorry, seems we've gotten carried away. I do however have some ideas on connections. I'm thinking along the lines of the Gentaro/Pinkie Pie story line being connected to Pantheonic Rebellion in the same sense that Watanagashi-hen is connected to Higurashi. For the non Higurashi fans, that's basically being the keeper of Chekhov's Gun. Watanagashi-hen is from a mystery stand-point the most important novel in the entire series because that's the arc where the "gun's" bullets are all loaded. You get some of the first big clues as to the solution to the 1983 murders, the identity of the Big Bad, Oyashiro's true colors, and even a subtle one regarding the solution to the cycles of madness and death.

We can connect Camilla's arc in the same way, loading up all of the foreshadowing, the horrible reveals about the plot against Madoka, Pinkie Pie being the first to find out about Fluttershy's temple being targeted, the first clues about it being a False Flag Operation, clues as to its culprit (Kane acting alone, but its too late as Discord's wrath has already been sent YVHV's way), and a whole bunch of foreshadowing and Chekhov's Gun related things to all the major plot points for discerning readers to discover.

Got an idea as to how Kyubey ends up giving Trollkaiger the framing idea. After the war, Lord Kroak finds out about The Artifact of Absolute Death and how its a magically parasitic artifact that leeches magic and mana from the surrounding area and individuals with magical power. Note: its last appearance is the root cause of Etna being put into a coma for months. Given how the Incubators revive via local mana, logically dying in an area with no mana permanately kills them off Deader than Dead. Kroak orders a batallion of Saurus Warriors to abduct Kyubey and some incubators and take them to the Artifact of Absolute Death (he himself stays FAR away for obvious reasons). They kill some random Incubator mooks (whether via their crocodile like jaws, their hind talons, claws, their maces and axes is up for grabs) within the vicinity of the artifact, which scares Kyubey into going along with Kroaks "SOB Punting" directed at Lucifer: Highjack Trollkaiger's plot to troll Zenon and direct at at him. Of course, he's banking on Zenon being stopped by the likes of people like Valvatorez and Adell. Given Kroak's portfolio: Kick The Son Of A Bitch and Lizardmen tendencies to do some nasty stuff for the protection of the planet, this is perfectly in character.

As for Trollkaiger, Bernkastel manages to cause them to avoid the karmic bullet (for now) by uttering but a simple Red Truth: (Remember that it is forbidden to lie in red. The exact words of a Red Truth are absolutely true, but their meaning has to be discerned.) "Kyubey is the culprit", which focuses the Forces of Chaos's wrath on the Incubators instead of Trollkaiger. Trollkaiger's connumpence will come in the "Zenon's Rampage" arc.

Got more ideas for Lol Ranger's barrage of pranks, this one directly inspired by the classic Loony Tunes gag of hiding someone from danger only for that danger to show up for real. This one involves some help from Kyoko, Fate Testarosa, and Haruhi. The "hide from false danger" aspect comes from Kyoko's illusion powers using voice to mimic the voice of Overlord Zenon combined with lightning strikes from Fate to cause Lol Ranger's special friend to freak out. Lol Ranger hides him and does the "he's not in here" gag and "she" goes away. Lucifer comes out, only for Zenon to be right in front of him. Its actually Haruhi in perfect cosplay and perfect voice impersonation. Remember that Wendee Lee is BOTH Haruhi and Overlord Zenon in the US.

^ I think I have an idea. While Lucifer is busy with Lol Rangers at that moment, The Boss has Itachi lead her men to find Homura and sympathize with her actions. While The Boss' mooks make sure there are no interruptions, Itachi tries to convince Homura that she's being used by Lucifer and doesn't have to carry out any more actions to protect Madoka as the latter is safe now. I don't think this will succeed.

How would Kyubey fit into all of this? Considering his speech to Madoka in episode 11 regarding how human wishes create distortions and suffering and all that and ask for something different from the present reality, that seems like something YHVH would agree with. Also considering they have a common enemy in Homura...

What do you all think: what's Kyubey's role in the Pantheonic Rebellion?

Given that Kyubey is a Consumate Liar (yes, I define "lies of omission" as being a liar, which means that Urobuchi's comments about half truths does not conflict with Kyubey being a liar), I think that the little weasel is lying about "heat death" the whole time. Due to his Moral Event Horizon crossing in Rebellion, his status as a Consumate Liar, and his deliberate tossing people under the bus/screwing people over via deception as a base tactic perhaps change the Incubators alignment to Neutral Evil (they think they're True Neutral).

As for posistion in the rebellion, I think he'd side with "The Usurpers" out of spite for Madoka and Homura, his Deal with the Devil nature, and his natch for being a liar that screws his "allies" over when he's done with them.

Need to ask something. How many "scenes" are there in a standard Loony Tunes cartoon? That's the amount of scenes I intend to have with Lol Ranger's "pwning" (one of which is the "Zenon red herring"). Just got idea for another scene, involving "speedy thing goes in, speedy thing goes out", portal guns, portable holes, and more embarrasing traps. Also has Higurashi style psychological horror with Mion of all people going aggro (not "Infected").

Lucifer asks Mion what exactly did he do to bring Lol Ranger here. Mion's expression and demeanor INSTANTLY changes from her normal jovial self to a state of terrifyingly pleasant, cold, tranquil rage. Shion catches her little sister's change in mood and tazes him on the back of his neck. with her high powered illegally modified taser. Mion punches him in the face (remember she's a trained martial artist), grabs him by the neck of his suit, and verbally lays into him.

• Do you know what the "Hinimizawa Defense" is? One person's enemy is everyone's enemy. Your actions against Homura were against one of Rika's best friends. (In an ironic echo to the end of Watangashi-hen which was actually Shion) If you hadn't of made Rika cry, then maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't be where we are now, wouldn't we. If you do anything to harm ANY of my club members in any way, ESPECIALLY Keiichi (that was actually Mion who was threatening the biker gang in Watanagashi-hen, meaning she DOES have those kind of aggressive protective instints inside her which combined with her rumored falsely demon blood is just asking for trouble), you'll regret it.

With that Mion's expression changes straight back to her normal self as she remembers that Dead Pool's show on "Troll Physics" is nearing its conclusion and he needs his "special guest" soon. Mion pushes the still stunned Lucifer off the ledge of his base and with a happy grin and friendly wave says "Have a nice flight". The camera cuts back to Shion, who's quivering in fright as she's NEVER seen Mion this angry before ever, all while being perfectly tranquil (remember that Mion's anger is cold rather than raging).

As Lucifer falls, Bugs Bunny opens up a Portable Hole where the impact site is. Dead Pool with his newly stolen Portal Gun, does the link ups, causing their guest to fall down the same chasm over and over again all the while gaining speed. The top portal is changed to target a section of wall facing Princess Celestia who's casually talking with Pinkie Pie. She then non-chalantly kicks him in the face during his "horizontal launch" sending him back through the portal. This sends him on the same endless portal looped fall, only this time, falling upward. The portal is directed towards another hallway. This one has a trap made by Satako designed to go off if someone passing by does so with adequete speed (which was the point of "speedy thing goes in, speedy thing goes out"). The trap launches a spring loaded "boot to the rear" out of a wall panel, which sends her guest careening towards a wall, which trips a wire and drops a wash bucket full of tomatoes. Dead Pool walks up and offers him a chimichunga.

Sounds good. Who makes up the Usurper faction?

The Usurper faction consists of Satan (Lords of Shadow, commander), The Beast, Dormaru (MVC 3), Randall Flagg, and a few others. They're trying to use the war to usurp the throne from YVHV. Their base alignment is Neutral Evil and Chaotic Evil for the most part. Given that the Incubators are very demonic in mindset (faustian pacts, deception, deliberately throwing innocents into the cross fire of their system, gleefully throwing the people who help them under the bus when it suits them), they'd get along just fine.

There's a 5th faction called the "Forces of Balance" consisting of Flynn and The Demi-fiend. Their agenda is to prevent both The Regime and Forces of Chaos from gaining an advantage. They're loosely allied with the "Rebellion" faction since they're just defending themselves. That and Flynn feels pretty bad about the Reactor Incident.

Okay, now back to my confusion state. Well, since I'm now the "Foreshadowing stories", here's how my storyline is gonna continue for the next 2-3 chapters.

Gentaro:

A plot: Fluttershy and Discord meet up with Ryusei who is pretty much clean of the brainwashing, but has no idea what the hell he did (earlier Chrysalis was attacked so her mind control spell no longer works). Discord's not believing any of this nonsense and brings up Yayoi's manga of the alternate Gentaro. Ryusei still has no idea and then gets hit by a massive headache where he finds out just what the fuck happened if Gentaro died and if a dark entity resurrected him. He gets ambushed by Many Gods who have heard of that world (two being Bruce Lee and Eric Draven former since Meteor is a Bruce Lee Clone, latter for his vengeance by coming out of his grave).

B plot: Issac and Miria spread humor and comfort as they head off for Lego day at Chiyoko's restaurant. Emmet (The Lego God, not Emmet brown) is trying to get kid gods interested in Lego, but Uncle Howee's taking over the televisions with his show. At this point, Luna Vachon is looking for Edge and has had no such luck. Issca and Miria, lovable goofballs, decide to go. Emmet follows. Unfortunately, they are met up with both Dark and Serpent-bearer Gentaro who decide o trash the place. Emmet prepares a huge lego defense and Issac and Miria just try to befriend them, getting killed repeatedly but surviving since they drank the Great Panacea (ie they are immortal and their wounds regenerate). Fortunately, the group of the Nostalgia Critic and everyone else saves everyone (mentioing being mind controlled by Dark Gentaro) and both are sealed. Serpent-bearer Gentaro laughs: he did some stuff before entering the Pantheon so they have to figure out what he did.

C plot: Travis Touchdown stoped the zombies from eating Miu, Sam and Max explaining how the Kamen Rider Club is recovering from the brainwashing spell. Kengo is still not doing well. Miu then tells Travis to (hopefully) gather their groups to meet at the House of Sports.

D Plot: Mona arrives in the House of Gaming, getting that tip, just as the "magneta warrior" Kamen Rider Decade starts preparing to absorb the powers of the Mario gods because the Mario Gods are about fun, optimism, etc. etc. This rallies up every Nintendo God to strike back.

Pinkie Pie:

A plot: Pinkie Pie, Elena and Dudley try to get to Alice about friends but are having no success. It isn't until Applejack, Twilight Sparkle and Rarity appear to help even things out. Still, Alice is mad that Pinkie's friends came to her aid, yet everyone else is not there. Pinkie explains that everyone else will come back and be friends but she has to be patient and until then, Pinkie wants to celebrate her birthday or rather "Un-birthday". Alice cheers up a little and also agrees to fix Gentaro up...except that he's only one half of the true Gentaro's soul, his other half is Dark!Gentaro and the group needs both halves to resurrect him.

B plot: Back at the Pantheon Wrestling Federation, Christian, newly ascended, is waiting for his match against Randy Orton and John Cena (he slept throughout their mannequin transformation). 'Reunited' with Gangrel, Christian has to reinvoke the vampire contract he made during their Brood Days. Ralph, with Punk and Daniel Bryan in tow, explains that he has no choice: Howee is growing powerful and it won't be long until other gods become his puppets. Christian, reluctantly, agrees.

C plot: Undertaker takes the Hardys under his wing and explains what he has been doing for a while: he met up with a crow who had the power to resurrect the dead and met up with Eric Dravn, the crow's vessel. The crow told Taker to resurrect Gentaro, but since Alice did it at the same time, they each only took one half of the soul. The Hardys task is to get Dark-Gentaro to the PWF and hopefully get Gentaro's good half on stage to fuse them into one full being. To do this, Undertaker invokes a contract with them (think Ministry of Darkness when Undertaker brainwashed the wrestler that would be Mideon) and they blank out.

D plot: Piper's Pit is in session when Uncle Howee hits. Piper is immune to Howee's puppetry since Piper is so unpredictable (and because Howee got knocked out by a coconut). Loomis, Howee's bunny friend, repeats "You shouldn't have done that", just before Piper is ambushed by Cena and Orton. Fortunately, other wrestlers—fed up by this nonsense—comes in and knocks the stuffing out of Cena and Orton just as Gangrel appears with Christian by his side in his Brood era wardrobe which leads to ...

E Plot: Coming in just around the time of the Gentaro B Plot: Edge is in disbelief that Christian is back with Gangrel and proceeds that they all have to get to the PWF before more shit happens.

Okay one quick thing.

We have a rebellion going on. Yet the God of Rebellion, Lelouch Vi Britannia, is currently not involved. That sounds like a rebellion that's sure to go south if you literally don't have the backing of the god whose job it is to handle rebellion.

If you guys have a fanfiction account, make sure you save your story ideas on a document.

First off, yep I have a fanfiction.net account and second, why do you ask?

Err, I asked just in case you all forget the ideas(I know that you have own, but this was mainly to krimzon and magnum).

Wait, how exactly do you know that I have one of my own? I never made any mention to it at all.

You Just Told Me on your previous post.

Got another idea for a Lol Ranger "scene" in the ongoing chain of pranks. Hope this one's adequetely funny.

It involves Celestia getting Pinkie Pie to host one of her "mega parties" at ol Louis' place to his surprise, Satako wiring the punch bowl (completely red BTW) to splash on him, a bunch of pizzas with a surprise tomato for Homura (note: the pranks against her are much lighter in nature) ordered by the Sonozakis, Deadpool dancing around in a suit of raw meat (also red) for some reason, and a bunch of party goers waving around a bunch of red objects. All of this as buildup for an encounter with the iconic Loony Tunes bull who charges after seeing all of the red fast moving objects. Their "host" gets bucked by the bull landing face first in a pile of chimichungas placed by Satako.

Of course the mastermind of the idea for Lol Ranger using chaos to troll chaos is Keiichi (thought of it in the club meeting where Rika was crying), who's tutilage in guile paid off.

@Awebsr, you've asked us a good question. Why isn't the God of Rebellion involved in this? He should be another of the Masterminds, no?

I'll agree to that. Lelouch merely got overlooked.

magnum12, are my storylines good enough for the foreshadowing stories or do you need something specifically from your storylines to tie it together? I really don't see how my stories fit with Puella Madoka Rebellion, as I call it (Please PM me cause this thread is getting really big)

Just have a note on his profiles saying that everyone forgot to ask him but he was actually planning it out from the start or something. Two steps ahead of everyone and all that.

Also The Master Chief maybe should get involved as he is listed as being friendly with both madoka AND homura.

...I'm having second thoughts about how the Gentaro/Pinkie stories connecting to the "main" story (Read: the Homulily arc.). I'm beginning to think they won't make any real sense tying in to the "main" story.

Okay, then if it's not connected to it, then what are they going to be?

Err... You know what, I changed my mind. Let the stories continue to be connected. I was gonna conclude that they should be separate stories because I'm in doubt how the Gentaro/Pinkie Pie story would connect to the "main" plot in the future.

magnum gave me a list of stuff to add into my stories and was very interested in how my plots are connected (he said it was like something similar to Odin's Gate). I've been too busy to add stuff though.

Been looking at some things and I think we definately have the core heart of the whole law and chaos united against one bastard plot line from SMT 2. Just need krim to look through the SMT style alignments of characters in the "Rebellion" faction to see if they're more accurate. Note: I find good aligned characters hard to label as pure law or pure chaos.

Law: Lord Kroak, Valvatorez (yes, a law aligned demon, you heard right), The Emperor, Captain Cold, David Xanatos, Cyrus, Commander Farsight, Creed, Harpuia (he's basically a meaner X in personality, X himself would be neutral/law)

Neutral/Law: Lamington, Super Man, Thrall, Vol'Jin, Captain America, Optimus Prime, Vulkan, Sangunius, Cosmos, Adell, Kenshiro, Blade Wolf

Neutral: Batman, Virtuous, Lelouch, Guts, Philemon, Amy Rose, Kane, Igor, Flonne, Artina, Bain Blood Hoof, Spider Man, Piccalo, Gohan, Toki, Terra Branford, Ciaphas Cain, Gaunt

Neutral/Chaos: Oyashiro, Sonic, Asura, Raspberyl, Leman Russ, Goku, the Jaegar Crew, Bryan Mills, Raiden, Zero (this is ironic given how Zero's bond with X is A LOT like a non-romantic version of pre-upheaval Homura's bond with Madoka)

Chaos: Shadow, Gig, Laharl, Etna, Zetta, Mr. Freeze, Lambadelta, Alpharius, Bills, Hulk

Realized that the Rebellion has quite the nasty Game-Breaker trap set up for the Regime in the form of Lambadelta. Her core power is probability manipulation BS. Imagine that combined with something like say Yu and Naoto doing AOE Mudo/Hamon spamming (prob hax means 100% success rate on insta kills and status ailment spells) or weapons with "Rending" (armor/buff ignoring critical hits on a high roll, such as Imperium Sniper Rifles/Assault Cannons) getting auto rend upon hitting someone. The reverse is true, meaning "Regime" status ailment spells and Hamon/Mudo having 0% chance success rate.

More the information you put up like above, the more I'm looking forward to the plot.

And on that note, magnum, you need me for anything else or should I start writing my parts?

^ Go ahead and start.

Guys, I just can't find the time to type anymore: real life has got me spinning in every direction right now. As such, if anyone wants to pick up the Fear Toxin Incident where I left off, that's fine. The basic idea I had for the sequence of events was as follows:

The Investigation Team helps Sayaka face herself, but Nyarlathotep seals the portal between Inaba and the Pantheon to keep them away

Homura completes her Witch Transformation and Joker and Nyarlathotep put their plan into action

The Investigation Team opens the portal back up and gets there in the nick of time. They fight Nyarlathotep while Homura's friends help save her.

Nyarlathotep is defeated and Madoka is saved, but Homura realizes that Madoka is in too much danger. She takes Lucifer up on his offer and kicks off the Upheaval.

Been thinking of how to make Lucifer being Out Gambited believable. Just came up with an idea on how.

The Usurpers, especially Satan's lust/greed for power were being maniplated before the war even began. Baiting him (by word of the war going round) into getting involved is a multi-faceted yet stealthy Bat Man Gambit jointly orchestrated by Lamington and Virtuous with the net objective of screwing over The Forces of Chaos via spreading their forces too thin and undermining a key goal. Once Satan's involvement shows itself, this will provoke Gabriel Belmont into undermining Satan's scheme. The Rebellion sends The Belmonts and Alucard's team to get involved in this undermining.

Phase 2 is Kyubey's involvement being a Bat Man Gambit targeting Homura. By using her hatred of the Incubators, Lucifer is denied his chance to try to break in his new general which hurts his forces ability to fight YVHV, allowing the Rebellion and Forces of Balance to take the credit for YVHV's defeat.

While Lucifer is a Magnificent Bastard, the justification for losing is that while he knew the Seraph was very intelligent, he got caught with his pants down because he was NOT expecting a Mirror Match scenario against what amounts to a Law aligned mirror (one that like him is an excellent judge of character, master of manipulating psychology to get what he wants, and is all for humanity) of himself.

I can dig that, also if anyone needs someone to be a scribe and keep track of it all I will be more then happy to lend a hand.

Just to get a complete list of The Usurpers out there, the group consists of: Satan, The Beast, Mr. Scratch (Otherness), Dormammu, Randall Flagg (Magic), Diavolo (Time and Space), Jack of Blades, Father Balder (Personal Appearance), The Kurgan, Mundus (Villains) and The Incubators.

I also had this idea that you guys could use elements of both Satan fights in both Lords of Shadow games like his ability to use light and dark magic, possession and The Leviathan (The Big Monster at The End of Lords of Shadow 2), I mean that is what I want to see but if you guys have different ideas that is fine.

^ Funny you should say that. I was intending this story arc to also act as our Pantheon tie-in to Lords of Shadow 2 (which I recently finished).

For the possession, we could use Lo S Alucard as the victim. This could tie into Lamington's superb skill at Xanatos Speed Chess. He wasn't expecting this development, but preperations were made to counteract this divergence in the form of a Secret Test of Character on Gabriel in order to prove to Gabriel that he's not as evil as he claims to be and that Flonne was right about him still having love in his heart. Perhaps a reference to certain Pet the Dog moments (such as the antidote and the Toy Maker incident).

The Bat Man Gambit targeting Homura also doubles as a Secret Test of Character as requested by Cosmos. She passes by showing that she still cares about the other girls and the Sisterhood despite her outward appearances (not to mention that Madoka would want people to be happy and safe), reducing the flak on her since its likely that she was well intentioned but ultimately reckless and foolish about it. Lol Ranger is still going to "troll" her, but its going to be MUCH more gentle than compared to their main target

From what I've seen I think that the bad guys in this story are out numbered to an almost unfair degree and I would like to bring up some bad guys to join up with the Regime like Enrico Pucci (Friendship), Nikolai Bulygin, The Dark Judges (Justice), Zobek (Magic), Master Li, Clu 2 (Mentalism), Gill (Nature), Maximillian Caxton (Personal Appearance), Rassilon (Royalty), Funny Valentine (Time and Space), and Omega (Villains).

I feel like they could be used to give some guys to help level the playing field in some Fronts. Once again if you have better ideas then mine then it is fine if you don't want to use mine.

As long as said characters are Lawful Evil (or maybe Neutral Evil) go ahead.

As a note, what I'm going for in terms of this war is a battle of elites vs hordes. Ideally, the Rebellion should be at the advantage in terms of QUALITY of forces (elites) with the Regime having the advantage in terms of QUANTITY of forces (hordes). This is in terms of the combined amount of gods and mook troopers.

This should be represented by the kinds of things the factions have. The Rebellion's mooks are things like the Adeptus Astartes (including in one front Chaos Space Marines), Nipponverse angels, the Horde (in WC 3 orks are actually the elite army, The Guardians, etc. The Regime's troops include things like the Scourge (this was a horde army in warcraft), X-Forces, nazis, SMT angels (MUCH lower on the power scale compared to Nipponverse), etc.

Of course the "Fog of War" front is supposed to be a big fat chaotic mess with everybody fighting everybody. We got Tyranids senselessly eating whatever's in their path, 40k orks fighting the mutha of all WAAAGGG Hs!!!!, YVHV's forces in the midst, some even at each other's throats due to Hinimizawa Syndrome induced paranoia. The only cohesion is between the Brotherhood of Nod and Alpha Legion.

Oh, and more idea's on YVHV's punishment. In addition to the humiliation at the court and the vigilantee beatings/sniping he's getting from a bunch of gods dissatifisied with Eiki's verdict, the vigilantees bring in Mr. Slave. Mr. Slave is FURIOUS with harm attempted on innocent children, so he shoves YVHV up his ass "Paris Hilton" style. Cut to a Lemmiwinks style gag, with YVHV's only real company being Teppei Houjou.

^^ Would Homura go after the Incubators at this point? I means, she hates them, sure, but by this point, they're no threat to her OR Madoka. YHVH's actively beating on the door trying to hurt the one she sold her soul (twice) to protect, I think He'd take priority: the little weasels can wait until the angels are taken care of.

I think we should work in a scene regarding Madoka's line in Rebellion regarding Law/Desire(Chaos):

Homura: Madoka Kaname, do you think this world is precious? Do you think that laws or desires are more important? Madoka: Uh...well, I think laws are more important. Wouldn't it be bad to just selfishly break the law?

Upon hearing this, I can think of two reactions for Lucifer to have.

Lucifer: (Utterly deadpan) I'm sorry, could you repeat that? I couldn't hear you over the sound of 'reality-shattering wish'.

Or

Lucifer: (Blank, slackjawed, totally gobsmacked stare) WhhhhhhhhHAT?!?

^ Satan's plan at this point is basically omnicidal. As this is a tie to Lords Of Shadow 2, if he can't rule the pantheon, then NO ONE can. If Satan's plan succeeds, then everyone Madoka included all die.

Homura in her mind is now faced with two people out to kill Madoka at this point, YVHV and Satan. Kyubey is involved in the later plot.

To ramp up the tragedy, the only people that will ever know what Homura did to save everyone are the commanders of the GUAG, Itachi, and The Boss.

On a side note, I find the corelation between Homura and Bernkastel VERY shaky at best. If anything, she's become more like Farsight's high prietesses, Yasu and Eva Ushiromya. The former is a girl with SERIOUS self loathing/loneliness issues. Both had to paint themselves as the enemies of those they care about in order to protect them.

I understand the tie-in. However, I think the jump to omnicide is a bit abrupt. Considering YHVH is going to be more or less occupied fighting the Rebellion, and thus his forces are already tied up and being damaged, Satan would see this as a prime opportunity to seize the Great Will's throne and use it as a kickoff point to fight for rule of the Pantheon. He can certainly bring out the Leviathan once his plan FAILS, because then he has reason to have a Villainous Breakdown. But right now, he has an opportunity to rule the pantheon, and thus really has no need to destroy it.

As far as Lucifer cares, Satan's blowing smoke. He can HAVE the Great Will's throne. They'll let him have his five minutes of fame, then deal with him once the (again) immediate threat of YHVH is taken care of. Besides, if Satan REALLY pushes his luck and tries to destroy the Pantheon, he'll have the Main House to deal with, and that will end VERY poorly for him. Madoka turning into Kriemhild Gretchen and destroying the Pantheon was a very real threat because she's an Overdeity even AMONG Overdeities, her power rivaling even Haruhi's. Satan on the other hand is a mid-range Greater God who's been beaten by a mortal even WITH the God Mask: nowhere near strong enough.

Overall, Satan's plan is doomed from the jump. Ruling is something that requires constant upkeep, and there are plenty of Gods stronger than him.

Assassination, on the other hand, is something you only need to pull off ONCE.

Based on that power scale, where would Valvatorez (a guy who's so scary that even Overlord class demons speak his name in hushed whispers because he's just that scary powerful) be placed if we assume that many of the Nipponverse greater powers (Gig, Zetta, Zenon, Virtuous who are basically the big dogs of that verse in terms of power level) are borderline overdieites, especially in terms of destructive power (Gig and Zenon are most certainly "Over" class in terms of that department). Canonaclly, Valvatorez is actually on equal footing with Zetta and Gig in his DE-POWERED state (which is assumed to be less than 5% of his full power). What tier Over Diety would his "Tyrant" state be at then.

I know the question isn't directed at me, but Tyrant State Valvatorez would definitely be a first tier Full-blown Over Deity, competing with the likes of Madoka and Destructor!Asura on equal grounds... Which is saying a lot... And I haven't even played any of the Disgea games.

Seconded.

On that note, in one of the bad endings, it takes 8 million avatars of that universe's god (also a bastard and there's WM Gs that its YVHV) to take the de-powered form down. The normal ending has Val giving out a Curb-Stomp Battle to the Nipponverse counterpart of "Conception" (basically an exterminatus planet wide Kill Them All that kills innocent and guilty alike).

Perhaps this should tie in to YVHV's defeat. A major intelligence failure caused by arrogance. Rumors of a 4th overlord on par with people that Metatron readily gets his ass kicked by, and he's going to have to come clean about those failures. Little did he know that this 4th overlord transformed into his full power. The "Tyant" was brought in as a counter measure just in case YVHV pulled something like "Fear the Great" (Flonne should know since she's the one that "deep striked" him in to fight Fear the Great in order to protect humanity.

Then there's the potential Logic Bomb in the form of a Law aligned demon.

All I'm seeing out of this is that a good third, or even half of The Great Will's forces will be nightmarishly demolished. YHVH seriously Didn't expect this, which makes his tantrum even more apparent, if you will.

This bring up two questions.

1. What will Melkor's reaction be to the post-war news that "The Tyrant" has regained the full extent of his former powers? What will be pantheon's reaction to that news? Madoka may have been taken out, but the GUAG gained someone every bit as powerful, but with NONE of the inhibitions against using that full power. In the de-powered state, Valvatorez has a One-Winged Angel form in te form of a massive bipedal demonic dragon (this form does have a time limit on how long he can use it for a given interval). Tyrant Valvatorez also has access to this form, albeit even more powerful than his humanoid "Tyrant" form.

2. What's going to happen when Rika Furude tells Valvatorez about how the Chaos Lord hurt her via the "Great Upheaval"? The notion of a extremely....FURIOUS....."Tyrant" vs The Chaos Lord is an interesting fight, but alas one for another time, another story.

Melkor's reaction won't be happy about this whatsoever. The fact that Valvy gets his former powers back will, aside of scaring the living hell out of most of the GUAE (notably the Vampire lords), who will think of a way to depower him in midst of the rebellion, mean that he will perhaps become a bigger target than possibly that of Madoka and Homura combined. On that note, does Tyrant!Valvatorez have the time limit like depowered Valvatorez?

As for question 2... I think you've answered your own question already, magnum.

^ No. "Tyrant" state has no time limit. It was his original state BEFORE the depower. The form that does have a time limit is the "demon dragon" One-Winged Angel state that both forms have (the "Tyrant" state has this transformation as well, albeit much more powerful).

As an example of just what kind of individual YVHV's gonna have to deal with, there was an incident in which someone tried to assasinate Valvy in his tyrant state. With a casual display of his power, "Tyrant" easily reduced a structure that was designed to withstand the wrath of an overlord class demon to rubble. Keep in mind that Nipponverse overlord class demons are easily on par with something out of Dragon Ball Z or Touhou.

Bringing Valvy back to his full power was the GUAG's "trump card" reserved just in case Metatron suceeded in sending that memo to YVHV. Perhaps some narrative with Lamington and Cosmos threatening Metatron in his pleasant matter that "should he continue trying to harm and threaten the Sisterhood, we'll have a wonderful surprise for you". Guess Metatron should have been humble enough to take that warning to heart.

^ That's what I meant to say about Tyrant Valvatorez... Well his demonic dragon form at least.

A couple of things to bear in mind that a lot of people forget: the being we know as YHVH, who appeared in SMT II, and the one we all think of when we think of the SMT God is NOT the SMT God. We slap the title of Great Will on him as just basically that: a title. But in reality, the being called the Great Will is the ultimate incarnation of Law, an existence unto itself, and basically the Mastermind. YHVH's just its avatar, as much as Kagusutchi, Ancient of Days, Demiurge, Elohim, Saboath, arguably Polaris, and so on. A bit of pants-wetting for the Rebellion, as they realize that even though they beat YHVH, they ultimately have no idea what the limits of the Great Will's power truly are.

As for the fight between Valvatorez vs Lucifer, that could be a chance for Lucifer to reveal his 'real' self: Word of God is that we haven't seen it yet, and it's an amalgam of all of his forms. The fight would likely be off-screen, and end in a draw with them both seriously wounded.

Lucifer: (On the ground, gasping for air and trying to drag himself toward Val) What's...what's wrong..."Tyrant"? Out...*koff*...out of gas...s-so soon...? URK!

Valvatorez: I'm...not done yet...I promised her I'd...I...dammit...I can't move...!

Lucifer: Nor can...I...I've got nothing left...your power is...terrifying...I salute you...*passes out*

Valvatorez: Ha...hahah...*Struggles to stand* You should have...known...you were outmatched...you'll pay...the ultimate price for it...! Right...right after a little...power nap...*faceplant*

Have idea for one of the Lol Ranger gags. This one more South Park in approach.

Mara gets brought in to drive them away (because their girls). Bugs and Celestia cover Satako's eyes/ears. Celestia makes a comment about "calling in a favor".

Too bad for our Chaos Lord that the Sonozaki sisters (Mion more so) are perverts. They turn the tables and troll Mara about him needing to see a doctor cause its all sickly green. Mion's seen beter (reference to the "pool episode" being canon since its referenced in the VN version of Rei).

Then the three rangers have a little fun talking about Game Of Thrones and its being all about wieners. A chorus appears and Deadpool sings the wiener song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpM2yi2ChLU All the while spoilers for the next season are sneakily placed in their talk.

Mara decides to talk to his master (who apparently loves the show) about it wieners and all, obivious that he has been tricked into spoiling the next season. The reaction is recorded for the Sisterhood to see. Then the "favor" hinted at earlier in the gag shows up. A "4chan party van" led by Chris Hanson appears and Mara is arrested for inappropiate conduct in front of minors (Satako is 11).

This all brings up a question: What will The Chaos Lord's reaction be to the fact that Rika Furude, the orchestrator of his recent run of misfortune (nearly being killed by a Vampire Lord of terrifying power who's power source is The Power of Friendship taken to horrific new levels and being epically trolled to near insanity) is but a mere human. A small child at that. One who enacted the ultimate act of free will; successfully defying fate itself. Like the Sonozakis, Rika is falsely rumored to have demon blood.

Arguably, Zenon going apeshit on him can be indirectly linked to Rika since Bernkastel (arguably one of the cruelest, most EVIL people in the pantheon) is Rika's evil side purged from her conciousness. Speaking of Zenon, her true power is one of the big mysteries in the nippon ichi fandom. No one knows since we have no Word of God, no Word Of Saint Pail, and no Word of Dante. The best we have in terms of a guess is that she's "at least on par with Gig". We only have two moments of canon that we can base our guesses on.

1. 99 overlords ganged up on her in the "Battle of 100 Overlords". NONE of them came back alive and it was a Curb-Stomp Battle at that.

2. She brutally curb stomps and nearly kills Laharl on screen (you even get to play through that part).

Is this one of those cases where we can justify "As powerful as she needs to be"?

Lucifer will definitely be impressed, given by the one feat Rika was able to finally defy her fate in Kai (forgot which chapter it was). His reaction will be something along the lines of...

Lucifer: So... A mere human girl, who managed to defy her fate so many times... Has become my biggest bane... How Fascinating...

I just thought of an idea that maybe both stupid and crazy but here it goes. I thought of a way to have a nice book end to this arc by having Satan possess Madoka. The ones that were suppose to protect her got caught up in the battle between Tyrant Valvatorez and Lucifer.

Her possession is due to her weakened state and him twisting her Anger towards Lucifer and forcing an end battle between her and Homura, there could also be a sort of time limit in defeating her as there is the implication that there is still almighty power in Madoka and Satan would try and unlock it for his own use. I can see the battle as being a fusion of the Satan final boss battles with Madoka's Magic fueling his own light and dark magic as well as her gaining the ability to use the black slime that was in the lords of shadow 2 final boss fight.

It would also be a way for Gabriel to be tied in as he attempts to finally destroy Satan.

On a less pathetic idea note, I believe that Zenon is at least as powerful as She needs to be as there is no real power scale in Disgaea to really tell how powerful Zenon would be. Though without a doubt anyone she chooses to attack would be in for a whole galaxy of hurt.

All things considered, I think it's safe to say Lucifer and YHVH are more or less the...well, I don't want to say 'Evil', but they're analogues on some level to the two Alliances: both are incomprehensibly powerful incarnations of character alignments. Basically, they're the Eldritch Counterparts of the Alliances. I think the real genius in this storyline comes in with the fact they are NOTHING like either of the Alliances have ever faced. They're more or less used to fighting each other, but not even Melkor or Cosmos know what to make of THESE guys. How do you even quantify Pure Law or Pure Chaos?

My general time line:

The preperations —> The War —> Post War.

The stuff in the Post War are the Court of the Gods shenanigans and "Most Dangerous Troll" happening at the same time —> Tyrant v Chaos Lord —> Zenon's rampage (several days later, Lucifer gets his ass kicked by Zenon but escapes via Homura's help, starting her berserk rampage through the entire pantheon, which is a tie in to potential arcs) —> Grandfather's Laboratory (Nurgle and Wesker have gotten their hands on Hinimizawa Syndrome, thanks a lot Alpharius you just HAD to bring that into play) —> "Operation Devil Be Trolled" (Lol Ranger drive Lucifer to the point of near insanity with their Loony South Park style pranks and trolly antics, ending the arc with the Madness Mantra "They'll get bored eventually. They'll get bored eventually. They'll get bored eventually........). That and Mion punches him in the face before one of the pranks and the eventual reveal that Rika Furude was the mastermind of his recent run of misfortune.

So I'm trying to get the Homulilly thing out of the way so you guys can start actually putting these in Book Four. The Elsa/Rin/Saber story I'm working on is my attempt at setting up another threat (potentially a manifestation of Angra Mainyu allowed by Nyarly to briefly exist in the Pantheon) to keep a lot of Gods busy while the Madoka crew takes care of this long-awaited arc.

Magnum... krimzom... I'd hate to be an ass here, but we really need to stop thinking ahead about the Pantheonic Rebellion and focus on the Homulily/Great Upheaval plot.

I agree with Hotman. You guys appear to have a meticulous outline for the Homulilly arc yet your conversation for the next arc has taken up about half this discussion page. Five months ago I axed the Archer plotline prematurely just so you guys could have the green light, so I personally want to see this get done with. Sorry if I sound rude, but it's true that we need to focus.

I know. But as I posted earlier, I have zero time to actually write anything bigger than these tiny little blog posts. I'm WAY too busy with work and school to dedicate any time to writing new entries to the actual story. I do get out of college in about a month, but until then, my hands are tied. I wrote out a basic outline of how I saw the Homulily arc unfolding earlier:

Or it could go entirely off the rails. I think I'd actually like to see that more: just see how other people have been envisioning it. Either way, I'm not gonna be able to put anything into the actual story before college gets out. If you want an update for the Tales, it's either gotta come from someone else or wait until I have more time.

On a different note, Magnum, that's actually a GREAT idea: having Lucifer lose to Zenon because he hasn't recovered from his fight with Valvatorez.

It should be noted that if Homura has to fight a Satan controlled Madoka she's going to be in for a tough fight. A few reasons why which I will now list off.

1. As it stands Homura is banned from using her new powers by the main house on any of the Magical Girls. Even if Madoka's powers are sealed its probably still in effect. This means Homura is limited to her typical arsenal. Satan on the other hand is going to have near full access to Madoka's powers along with his own.

2. From a purely psychological stand point the idea of Madoka attacking her, even if its against Madoka's will is going to be unnerving for Homura. Odds are Homura has some serious PTSD from all of those time lines where she failed to save Madoka and that is without bringing up the one where she had to mercy kill her.

3. From a medical stand point any damage dealt to Satan while he controls Madoka will be transferred to Madoka. Madoka will feel ever hit, burn, and blow while Satan mocks Homura the whole time. Homura is going to be trying to beat Satan without harming Madoka while Satan has no such issues and will exploit every opportunity he can find.

I suggest that Gabriel shows up either during the fight to save Homura or before the fight where basically lays down the law. Homura gets five minutes to try and force Satan out of Madoka, after that Gabriel won't hold back and will strike to kill.

Also I suggest that Madoka be unconscious after fight or just slipping into it when several others arrive to find Homura and Gabriel standing over a bruised, battered, and out cold Madoka. Any members of the Sisterhood present get ready to attack Homura who is exhausted from the fight only for Gabriel to step in, declare Homura under his protection. Then they just walk on out, because no one there wants to try their luck against Gabriel if they can help it.

[[up]]

2. It's pretty much all but confirmed that Homura has severe PTSD.

3. Might not be as bad as indicated. Homura now has healing powers in her new state.

As per the suggested idea, the "lay down the law" bit should be a big fat lie (he HAS to lie to her as much as he doesn't like it to keep Satan in the dark) as Gabriel is concealing "Vampire Killer". Perhaps he should trick Satan into leaving Madoka's body with the same ploy he did in Lords of Shadows 2 (pretending to go all out and kill the "target" with Vampire Killer's stake mode), only for him to grab the escaping Satan by the throat and impale HIM with it.

For the arrivals, perhaps to ramp up the tragedy, they walk in on Homura bawling her eyes out over what she JUST had to go through (all the while using her new healing powers on Madoka's unconcsious state). She quickly has to slip into her Evil Overlord act. Adding in a Crowning Moment Of Heart Warming, Gabriel steps in, declares that Satan is the culprit (pointing to his body with the big stake through its chest), Homura was trying to purge him out of Madoka's body, and anyone that tries to hurt her will have to go through him.

In ending (to tie in with a certain rather vague open ended ending), it should leave the Sisterhood completely confused. What exactly IS her true agenda? Has she gone completely evil, or is she a conflicted, severely traumatized (mentally and emotionally) wreck, or does is she hiding some hidden agenda?

A scene like that should have Homura state outright that Lucifer didn't trick her. He told her exactly what she was getting into: warned her that the Pantheon would curse her name if she went through with it. But she took his option of her own free will.

Also, a LOL Ranger entry.

Lucifer is holding up quite well against their torments, all things considered. He's clearly irritated, but nothing has really 'gotten' to him on the level that they hoped. He makes the mistake of taunting them about it, telling them they're wasting their time and making them both look foolish.

Mion and Shion unveil the nuclear option: a Youtube video of Lucifer in his underwear, dancing very, very, VERY badly and lip-syncing into a toothbrush to this.

Lucifer: *Bug-eyed* NOOOOOOO!!!!

That vid gave yet another Lol Ranger idea.

Satako takes a look in his fridge and swaps the hot sauce inside with Rika Furude's "Death Penalty" hot sauce (basically "uber nuclear fire" grade spiciness). He ends up placing it on his favorite food. Hilarity Ensues from his anguished screams. As a further kicker, this sauce is the work of humans rather than demons. The usage of the sauce is also Rika's idea as well, adding to the part of a mere human child who smashed fate (the ultimate act of free will) being the cause of his big wave of misfortunes .

Need some help on some symbolism. Saw the leaked rebellion epilogue, noticed the moon split PERFECTLY in half between light and dark. What does it mean? Is it symbolic of Homura pulling one of her "masks" (possible Zero-Approval Gambit hint) or that she's not exactly evil?

A "The Reason You Suck" Speech for Madoka courtesy of Lucifer: let me know if it's not vicious enough.

Vicious enough, but I'd say the system Madoka tried to make had the girls more likely to die off from over-exertion than from despair (relative to the old system) if anything. An imperfect (but better) solution to an ugly problem if you ask me.

I'd chaulk up Madoka's motives more to "seeing the horrors of the system first hand and wanting to fix it". Madoka is not too bright rather than having a messiah complex. The big flaw in her system was a "lack of security". It wasn't adequetely "iron-clad" enough. TLDR version, it was too easy for the Incubators to abuse.

Me thinks the end of season 2 will have a merger of sorts. The good ideas from the Madoka system plus the good ideas of the Homura system into a more perfect whole that's easier to protect from corruption. Think Yin-Yang.

I see no evidence regarding that: the only thing demonstrated to have changed was that Magical Girls don't turn into witches. As far as I can tell, despair still taints the soul gems by the very nature of the wishes: balance of hope and all that. Madoka gave them a more dignified death, and that's about it.

Timeline 6 Sayaka died from "blow out" rather than despair like how she normally does. If not for the Isolation field those filthy white rats created, Homura's soul gem would have gone out via "blow out" rather than despair. Its all conjecture since there's less awful truths (namely the big one) in said time line.

Good Feels Good more closely describes her than inferiority complex as she seemed to legitimately like protecting people. If anything, Madoka's fatal flaw is that she's recklessly selfless. A mark of a truly wise hero is one that understands that "one needs to know that they have to take care of themselves in order to be able to take care of others". Still an overall selfless character, just that said type is wise enough to know when to take care of their own needs in order to serve the greater good.

Madoka's inferiority complex is a huge part of her character: look at her conversation with Mami in Episode 3. She was willing to become a Magical Girl for the sake of it, just so she could feel she had a purpose through fighting witches and protecting people.

Of course, her actions contradict this: going after a brainwashed Hitomi into what she KNOWS is a witch's territory to save her life and all. But still, one of Madoka's defining traits beyond simply being the nicest person who ever lived is that she feels like she has nothing special about herself to offer anyone else. She feels like she'll be a burden, being no use and always asking people for help.

THAT'S what lead to her reckless selflessness: that selflessness is an indicator of a much deeper problem. That's why Good Feels Good to her: because it gives her life meaning. Honestly, one can say on some level she's selfless for a selfish reason! Oh, Lucifer's gonna have a FIELD DAY with that!

Okay now that I'm caught up with our Madoka storyline, I am just gonna ask some questions regarding my Project: Alternate Gentaro storyline:

First, I am mostly gonna have wrestlers, my little pony, maybe Street Fighter (Elena will be prominent) and some other miscellaneous gods for my story. Would you need me to lend some to your causes?

Second, if this story is not going to cross with Madoka, how big of an impact will this affect the Pantheon in general? The House of Friendship will take a huge blow but since Alternate Gentaro is going to be the fusion of his soul being split (by Undertaker and Alice) and his alternate universe self fusing with them, what else would that cause? How would that affect Gentaro's standings in the House of Friendship?

Third, would Lucifer or YHVH be interested in Alternate Gentaro in any way shape or form?

Please send me a PM for your answers. Thank you.

anyone think Lucifer would get along swimmingly with Baelish?

I would... And who knows who stuff they might do together?

Plot to basically have everyone important kill each other so they can advance?

Nah... Baelish would probably try to plan to bail Lucifer out.

@krim: Disagree on her assessment. I'd say the core issue is one of Madoka lacking self-confidence. This is actually a standard part of "The Hero's Journey" (referenced in the order of Tarot, refer to the Persona series), not to mention a standard trait of a budding Classical Anti-Hero. It's not a difficult problem to solve depending on whether or not its origins come from mental trauma (one that takes being able to believe in yourself) and frankly not exactly selfish to want to fix up either.

Madoka is Not So Different with Oyashiro who herself is a Messiahic Archetype with some serious anxiety issues who became a Deity of Human Origin. Heck, the complex she has over her horns gives her] what appears to be Avoidant Personality Disorder ([[spoiler: she suffered a lot from having them when she was mortal). Severe enough that it took some serious coaxing in the 7th novel for her to manifest in the physical world and lots of socialization in the 8th novel to even get her to talk to other people.

If Lucifer decides to attack Madoka over her mental issues, than he's basically also making it personal against Oyashiro as well, and that's going to REALLY piss Rika off, seeing that he's now going out of his way to make her friends lives miserable for kicks.

So...will anyone actually answer my question?

I doubt Lucifer would have any interest in Gentaro, but YHVH may have some interest on him, albeit a bile one at that. But then again, I've never watch Kamen Rider or Shin Megami Tensei.

Don't know enough about Gentaro to give an accurate opinion. Given that YHVH hates things like freedom, compassion, and happiness given how he's pure Lawful Evil IMO (based on his trope page anyway), he'd hate Gentaro.

What about Alternate Gentaro? The whole hatred, crushing enemies, revenge...would either the Lords of Chaos/Law want Gentaro's alternate self?

Alternate Gentaro would fit more into chaos.

Considering that Alternate Gentaro's public enemy number one would be Mitsuzane Kureshima (the one who in this story made Gentaro question his sacrifice to Ryusei and thus made his soul split in two instead of Gentaro resurrecting normally and thus causing the shitload of hell that is Alternate Gentaro) and Micchy is on the Lawful spectrum, then this could also tie with the Pantheonic Rebellion if Lucifer can sweet-talk A!Gentaro to be on his side. The House of Friendship will be SCREWED if that happens!

So, now I just need to know how to get Lucifer to convince A!Gentaro. What do you think?

I think Raoh should be added to one of the The Pantheonic Rebellion fronts

Suggested outline for the Gabriel and Homura vs Satan and possesed Madoka fight.

[b]Stage 1:[/b] Stage one is Satan possesed Madoka attacking on foot. They fight with primarily Satan's powers from the orginal Lords of Shadow though Madoka's energy arrows are used from time to time. Homura wants to avoid harming Madoka while Gabriel just wants Satan dead. Homura actually keeps preventing Gabriel from taking potentially fatal openings. Eventually Satan exploits the fact that Gabriel can't use light magic anymore to produce a series of shifting barrier rings and using Madoka's energy arrows. Gabriel can still pass through the shadow magic rings however. Exploiting this Gabriel wraps the shadow ship around Homura, has her stop time and then carefully weaves his way through the shadow rings the get in close.

[b]Stage 2:[/b] Forced on the defensive Satan unleashes a special something, Madoka's witch Kriemhild Gretchen. Homura realizing just how dangerous this is raises a barrier around the building preventing Kriemhild Gretchen from basically killing the whole Pantheon. This requires her full attention requiring Gabriel to solo Kriemhild Gretchen. Satan summons his minions to attack Homura while Homura's familars protect her. Kyubey gloats about just how impressive Kriemhild Gretchen's power is and that despite Homura's best efforts to protect her all she did was make Madoka vulnerable. Homura losses control of most of her familiars who are either quickly destroyed or just run off with the exception of the Clara dolls. Despite their power the Clara dolls are to few and a Golgoth Guard manages to break through and attack her. Caught between either defending herself and allowing the barrier to fall now or see how many automatic grenade launcher hits she can take before passing out and breaking the barrier anyways Homura chooses the latter and suffers repeated attacks. Just as she is about to give out the Master Chief arrives and destroys the Golgoth Guard with a spartan laster. The Chief protects Homura from Satan's minions (and also punts Kyubey clear across the battlefield). Making little progress Satan makes one final push with the full force of Kriemhild Gretchen. Gabriel uses his seal and transforms into his dragon state, the two clash the witch against the dragon. Gabriel breaks through and manages to force Satan back to Madoka's default state.

[b]Stage 3:[/b] Gabriel moves to finish Satan off with the Vampire Killer only for Satan to morph into the shadows and slip behind him. He then impales Gabriel with his staff, immobilizing him. He then picks up the fallen Vampire Killer and moves upon Homura who is exhausted from maintaining the barrier. The Master Chief tries to stop Satan but Satan entraps him in that black gunk he uses in Lords of Shadow 2. Homura tries to strike but finds herself immobilized as well, her legs and wings entraped in the goo. Satan monolouges for a bit about his power and how he is now unstoppable. He then wonders if the Vampire Killer can destroy more than just Vampires and then pulls Homura back more so that he can make a clean strike for her heart saying let's find out. Gabriel and the Chief struggle to break free while Homura realizes just how horribly ironic this whole situation is. Before Satan can strike the final blow however he is stopped, mere milimeters from Homura's flesh. Unleashing Kriemhild Gretchen weakened his hold over Madoka. Inside his head he tries to force Madoka back into submission but cannot. Madoka may not be happy with Homura's actions but she refuses to hold them against her, not after everything Homura went through. Homura has made mistakes and maybe walking down a dark path but to Madoka she is still her very best friend. Madoka overpowers Satan forcing him out of her body and shattering the retraints he had placed upon the Chief and Homura. For the moment she is once more a full scale over diety with her full powers restored and enhanced by the God Mask. With a single movement Madoka destroys Satan's staff freeing Gabriel. Satan summons the Leviathan only for Madoka to one shot the massive beast. Doing so however burns through the last of Madoka's strength and she promptly passes out reverting to her human form and Demigoddes power level. Homura catches Madoka before she can hit the ground. Satan has a villanous breakdown right before the Chief and Gabriel start beating the tar out of him. All the commotion however has drawn others especially now that the barrier is down. Cosmos, the Emperor of Man, Sayaka Miki, and a few other key members of the sisterhood arrive. Initially what they see is Homura holding an unconcious and somewhat battered Madoka. Sayaka jumps to the conclusion that Homura's trying to kidnap Madoka. Homura runs with this idea going into her card carrying villain mode. Before she can get very far however Satan is thrown into the middle of the room with Gabriel landing on top of him and putting his foot on Satan's face. Gabriel gives the true versions of events and declares that if anyone wants to harm Homura they will have to answer to him first. The Chief confirms the story and adds that with respect he would basically fight whoever strikes first. Cosmos and the Emperor take the Chief's word for it. Gabriel recovers the Vampire Killer and then leads Homura out dragging Satan along with them. The Chief follows them as far as the door, on Cosmos' orders. Once out of ear shot of anyone else Homura asks why they stood up for her. Gabriel says simply that he knows how hard the path she walks is, but she doesn't have to walk it alone. The Chief says that it was simply the right thing to do. Homura starts crying silently, cracking a genuine smile. Satan moans, Homura kicks him in the head and asks if she can deal with him as she has a very special torment planned.

Also on the subject of Madoka's self worth fueled wishes, someone clearly wasn't paying attention to the main timeline. Something Mami stressed repeatedly was that you had to think very carefully about what you want to wish for, it has to be worth your life. Yes Madoka had self esteem issues but after seeing what happened to Mami, Sayaka, and Kyoko she realized making a wish simply to feel better about herself was pointless, a waste of a wish. Right before she made her wish, the one that gave her godhood she didn't go out there to face walpurgisnacht, out smart Kyubey, or make herself feel better because she had already found her confidence, she had found a reason to make her wish. She said she had to help a friend. She went out there for Homura, because Homura needed her even if she didn't want her help. She went out there simply to help someone she cared about and mind you she didn't know about the other timelines and Homura's sacrifices and suffering for her. She made her wish solely because someone she loved was in trouble. That's something YHVH and Lucifer cannot properly understand. They are Law and Chaos incarnate, good and evil mean nothing to them. They can grasp the concepts of good and evil, of selflessness and selfishness but they cannot understand them. To them doing something simply because it is the right thing to do or simply for evulz makes next to no sense. Lucifer would grasp onto the self esteem argument because to him it makes the most sense, Madoka fulfilling her selfish need for validation. In doing so he blinds himself to the true nature of Madoka's power and the strength of her wish. And it is for that reason that his seal can only hold Madoka's power at bay rather than lock it away forever.

Demongod, where are you?

Yeah. Yosuke and a couple other members of the Investigation Team appeared in the Tales before they ascended, and considering the upcoming events, we're probably going to be seeing a lot of rank-and-file Puella Magi.

Who did you have in mind?

I'm considering having Angra Mainyu make an appearance, as part of Nyarly's way of keeping the rest of the Pantheon busy. I also need one or two other God of Evil figures to join in - any non-Pantheon guys you recommend I use?

Why not use someone like Vlitra? Homuthotep could spread a rumor that its coming back: that'd get Asura out of the way, and he'd be a HUGE threat to his plans.

Well there's also the time Cliana Rimskaya enters the Pantheon... and then Terumi trolls her using her bro's voice to screw her off (and remember, he's been planning to do the same for Kotomi Ichinose and Sheryl Nome). Also I'd ask that you leave this one to me... although I probably couldn't make it like a Black Comedy.

The counter of trollkaiger? We only have Mion. Others that could be probable haven't been in the Pantheon, some like Palutena, Shu Shirakawa, Urahara Kisuke... Better wait for the moment. Also... I think we DO have one person that could go with it and already in Pantheon... Deadpool.

Also magnum, I suggest that you lay off the Weil problem a bit. Remember that bit I suggested about Solid Snake getting 'involved'?

^ Indeed, I was hoping Snake would get involved. A perfect way to add another victim to the troll counter. ;)

Any other ideas for some potentially funny chapters? Even anything for the purpose of equal opprutunity offense will do.

Edit: Just came up with a chapter idea. Deity from children's show + "unnessecary censorship" = lulz. Maybe even target Mr. Rogers.

As far as squad mates goes, we do have Princess Celestia or maybe Bugs Bunny.

You wanna know what I think would be a clash between LOL Rangers and Trollkaiger? Here's one: The battle for a theme song!

In memory of Mr. Eduard Khil (AKA Mr. Trololo), the guy who popularized the 'Troll Song', who just recently passed away IRL, and seeing that the GUAG Robot War has its own official anthem, the two team raced on who could get the song as their own official anthem. The LOL Rangers, especially the Sonozakis, just wanted the song to play in well-meaning pranks to make us laugh, while the Trollkaigers, especially Bernkastel (and Terumi), wanted the song to play in the face of suffering of others as they laugh at their miseries.

It's so far a Foregone Conclusion as the Troll Song now rests in the LOL Rangers, because let's face it, Mr. Trololo himself wouldn't want the song to be used for suffering and taunting. But it is the journey that counts.

So, what do you think? The race for the Trololo song?

Brilliant idea. How to make it funny though.

Johan's a Diabolus Exit Machina in this case. If any of the Puella Magi try to face Johann, they would be Mind Raped into Witches quicker than The Joker and his two ripoffs have ever would. The Pantheon would be destroyed far sooner before the Investigation Team take any action and initiative. Practically, we're writing him out of the Witch arc at this point. I'm not sure if anyone would mind to write him in the story. It's isn't too late for someone to write him in.

Also Fox, bear in mind the Homura currently with Madoka isn't the real one. It's Nyarlathotep.

Since Nyarlatophep feeds off of malice and evils within, I just realized that such an approach potentially has a rather nasty weakness: entities that are incapable of morality based actions or do not comprehend the concept of morality.

I don't see how that's a weakness in this case. Nyarlathotep is just trying to keep Madoka occupied while the real Homura wastes away, and he is, after all, a fantastic actor. I mean, under normal circumstances, Madoka could just concentrate and find Homu with her omniscient connection to her. So how do you hide something from somebody like that? You stick it right in front of her, right under her pointy nose, and wait. You'll see what Nyarlathotep's (and The Joker's) ultimate plan is in due time, but I'll tell you this: it's a doozy.

I mean, I don't see how Kyubey factors into this.

I'm thinking of several other Blue-and-Orange Morality characters.

1. Lambadelta: Would make a pretty interesting Enemy Mine scenario. Her moral axis is interesting vs boring. Would actually be in character since she hates the pointlessly heart-rending despair feat crap people like Nyar, Terumi, and Perfectio seem to spread around. Heck, in Umineko's finale, she calls Bernkastel out for going too far and proceeds to kick the crap out of her in a magic fight that proves that she's the stronger witch. When Lambadelta trolls, she's in it for lulz rather than spreading pain. Her other main rule is that she has the utmost respect for determinators. Plus there's some potential for some real irony of a pulla magi teaming up with a witch.

2. Deadpool: Seems rather pointless though.

3. Kroak: Already mentioned him before and his motives so that's enough.

Spoiler-only entry, so heads up.

Nyarlathotep runs on the malice of all sentient creatures everywhere: his power doesn't fluctuate depending on who he's facing at the time. It's not like Blue and Orange people have some advantage over him. As it stands now, nobody knows he's even playing the game right now, barring Joker because the two of them have a Big Bad Duumvirate right now. That being the case, if Lambadelta or Deadpool were to look at Nyarlathotep!Homura, they'd think it was the real deal. The only ones who would probably be able to see through his disguise would be Yu, by virtue of "reaching out to the truth", Philemon, and (maybe) Tasuya Suou. Unfortunately, Yu's down in the mortal world helping Mami face herself, Philemon is...well, Philemon and Tatsuya is nowhere to be found. Any of these would gladly put their knuckles across Narly's face, but the problem is they don't even know he's actively involved as of the moment: in the case of what happened to Homura, everyone thinks Joker was working alone and just trying to one-up Kefka and Terumi. Now that "Homura's" safe and sound, everyone thinks Joker failed like Terumi and Kefka.

The truth is a lot nastier: when Joker took Homura out, Nyarlathotep took her place in order to get closer to Madoka. When the time is right, he plans to take her Soul Gem in order to de-power her and lure the Magical Girls into a hopeless battle that he will force Madoka to watch, while he and Joker pile on the breaking speeches. His aim is to break the Puella Magi by virtue of their Goddess being unable to intervene during such a hopeless situation, and in doing so break Madoka.

Rather tall order, I know, but between Nyarlathotep and Joker, they may just stand a chance of pulling something like that off. Joker's, you know, Joker and Nyarlathotep taught Terumi everything he knows.

^ My argument wasn't about fluctuation, it was more about not being able to feed on the malice of the completely amoral or alien morality and use their own malice energy against them in battle, which would arguably be a useful defense in a weird runabout sense.

I do see one flaw in the plot and a pretty interesting one at that. What if Fake Homura runs into someone with a Detect Evil esque ability? Off the top of my head, Naruto has it, any Paladin type should have it, and Kroak's race of all people have it, but that later case works more like sensing the taint/presence of Chaos or other equivilant malevolent supernatural forces, which is why "Old World Lizardmen" have a "KILL ON SIGHT" policy to Dark Elves (they have the taint of Slaanesh on them despite not being true Slaanesh followers), Skaven (they are a race with definite Chaos influence), and Chaos tainted humans. Add in how all Slaan are telepathic and there's something to think about.

I see. Still, while Nyarlathotep wouldn't be able to turn their darkness against them, he'd still have his own inherent power, which is absolutely ludicrous. The few people who run on their own sense of morals would at least be safe from his Breaking Speeches, and he probably wouldn't be able to summon their shadows to use against them, but he's strong enough as it is.

If all goes well, though, Nyarlathotep's not planning on really fighting anybody. Like, at all. The extent of violence he's planning to show is taking down Madoka with a decisive blow while she's off-guard, and perhaps going down and casually swatting a few of her helpless apostles if the mood strikes him, just to drive home how hopeless things are. Mostly he plans to sit back with Joker, eat some burgers and dogs, drink some booze, and watch as Madoka's apostles are torn to shreds by a Reaper or something, therefore making Madoka fall to despair, turn into Gretchen, and obliterate the Pantheon.

As for the evil-detecting people, I wouldn't go so far as to call that an inherent "flaw" in his plan: more a factor that Nyarlathotep will have to be wary of. It can be worked around if he knows what he's doing, it's far from a dealbreaker.

Adding some notes based on MG Sisterhood, Those "Chaos sensing creatures" are always present watching out of the sisterhood by order of their boss, either in the form of the brutish tough as nails "Temple Guard" form (very devout body guards that are also stubborn and will not abandon their charges even if ordered to do so) or the stealthy "Skink Chameleon" form, and those later ones cloak. Due to the telepathic power of Slaan, if even one lizard senses an intruder, their boss knows, and thus will Madoka know.

Slaan are basically a race of arch mages with god like power that resemble obese toads. The lesser ones are magically equal in power to a "Lord of Change" which is a high level demon of Tzeentch. The mid level one's definition of minor alterations include messing with tectonic plates. Kroak is basically a VERY high level Slaan. All Slaan are also capable of feeding magical energy and enhancing the magical power of allies, which is something they often do from behind the shadows while they meditate. This is a massive boon to the MG Sisterhood as it ensures they don't run out of power.

Also of note is a certain body guard assigned to Madoka directly. Basically an ancient, especially stubborn and vigilant/competent "Temple Guard" strain veteran.

A lot of the stuff I mentioned is a big spheal on War Hammer lore on a race completely incapable of comprehending the concept of morality for good or for ill (which means they're incapable of cruelty or malice) yet at the same time capable of being horrifically brutal (in the sense of an intellignet apex predator style brutality), plus do not understand emotion either. They're like incubators, but replace duplicity and deceitfullness with upfront ruthless brutality.

They were nowhere to be found when Terumi and Kefka had their sights on Mami and Kyouko, and they haven't intervened in regards to Homura, either. It fell to Deadpool and co. to save Mami, Ed helped Kyouko out, and Joker basically waltzed in the front door and succeeded in taking out Homura of all people. You'd think Madoka would make dead sure she'd give a full brigade of Slaan to Homu or something, but in all this time, I don't think they were even mentioned.

I hate to say it, but they haven't been much help as of late....

^ They're a pretty recent addition to Pantheon lore, since Kroak, the MG Siterhood and the things related to it started showing up some time after the story arc started to begin.

There's also the part in me that's trying to make Nyar lose since the idea of "GUAE flat out wins end of story" is a real downer.

Who do you think I am? Gen Urubuchi? Of course Narly's gonna lose. But he and Joker are gonna come close: they have a picnic while they force Madoka to watch her apostles getting slaughtered, and she almost loses it under the weight of what she's seeing and the breaking speeches they're piling on. I mean, the whole scene is them just kicking her in the ribs over and over and over and over and...

I mean, the Puella Magi are getting ripped to shreds, and Joker decides to put on some tunes to fit the mood. Specifically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjj5WbtenTM

But then Mami, Kyouko and Sayaka pull a Big Damn Heroes with their brand spankin' new Personas that they get over the course of the arc. They get pretty much smacked around by Narly at the beginning, but they finally manage to steal Madoka's Soul Gem back. "Magia" kicks in at high gear and she hits him with a barrage of arrows that would have ASURA seeing stars. Joker runs away, the Magical Girls mop up the rest of their foes, everyone celebrates, Madoka and Homura rub their cheeks together, and everyone lives happily ever after. Except for Melkor, Melkor throws a tantrum.

As for the Slaan, maybe we could have this arc be the reason they're protecting the Sisterhood, so it never happens again. They come in as a direct result of this close shave. Sound good?

I like that, quite a lot actually, and it fits with the recent arrival plot hook as well. When this is all done, I'll be sure to update the sisterhood and other respective pages to include those things.

Just for fun, heres some more lore. In terms of the extreme crisis warrenting extreme preventative measures, This is what I'm talking about when I talk about Temple Guard. http://onlyhdwallpapers.com/game/warhammer-saurus-lizardmen-temple-guard-desktop-hd-wallpaper-1177027/ They're a part of the "Saurus" sub-type of Lizard Men. Saurus are about 6-8 feet tall, have intrisnic scaled armor on par with what a human or dwarf would define as "medium armor", fight with axes/maces/2 handed halberds with bladed obsidian tips, and their jaws have about as much destructive power as an adult crocodile.

Temple guard while very competent body guards, are also Knight Templar when it comes to their charges and they were created to be that way. Even looking at their charges funny or drawing a weapon in their charge's direction is enough for them to enter "kill mode". Makes for a good epilogue scenario for people to have to be careful in how they interact with the sisterhood.

By the way, just so I can write the scene when the time comes: Endgame Yu, Kanji and Yukiko with full Rise support versus Joker and Nyarlathotep. Yu has access to Izanagi-no-Okami. Does the Investigation Team stand a snowball's chance?

Why not also add up Mitsuru, Tatsuya, Maya and Eikichi as well?

If they have time to go for help. Nyarlathotep secretly seals the Investigation Team, Sayaka, Kyouko and Mami down in Inaba before he and Joker move in for the kill, in order to get them out of the way. The only reason they manage to make their way back is because Charlotte is hit with a nasty case of separation anxiety, and she goes down to Inaba looking for Mami, breaking the seal.

By the time the Investigation Team gets back, all hell's broken loose: Nyarlathotep and Joker have taken Madoka hostage and the Puella Magi are getting torn apart by Homulily. They need to stop what's happening and they need to do it right now. The Investigation Team goes up against Nyarlathotep and Joker, considering they're more experienced, and Kyouko, Sayaka and Mami go to fight Homulily.

I was thinking Philemon would tip Tatsuya off and he might help, and he could probably grab the other Persona characters in as well. They'd probably need it to fight Nyarlathotep at the very least. Still, the fact remains that Joker's a Main House deity. I thought that nobody outside of the Main House can beat a denizen of it, barring any canon foes like Batman in the case of Joker. If that's really the case, I don't think it's matter if the other Persona characters are involved: they can't win. Or am I approaching it all wrong?

Also, the more I think about this, the more this arc will end up leading into the "Great Upheaval". I mean, since we're heading straight into Homulilly, we could use this arc to neatly tie in the events of the movie (since Homulilly was the final boss and whatnot).

Yeah, and Sayaka basically uses a Persona in that movie, so it works out nicely.

The next arc: trying to contain the fallout.

But again, I'm still curious: Could the Investigation Team beat Joker?

Despite being an Overdeity and Magnificent Bastard and whatnot, all the Joker's got combat-wise are human strength, toxins, trick-based toys, and cunning intelligence. If he goes head-on against even a Demigod of this Pantheon he'd most likely lose.

On the other side of the spectrum, how exactly can the Joker support the Crawling Chaos in battle?

Acting as his wielder, as Jun and Kandori did, perhaps. Basically Nyarlathotep turns Joker into a...Joker.

Ah, that makes sense. That should be an interesting sight to see.

I'll wrap up the Archer mini-arc in a way that shouldn't hamper Nyar's plan in any significant way. Then you can go ahead and write the endgame.

EDIT: The episode is done (albeit a bit too short). Archer's down but definitely not out.

... I have a question: Does the Genaro plot, in any way, shape, or form, connected to the Witch plot, or is it just filler?

I never thought of it that way since I haven't see Madoka Magica (I plan on doing it when classes are over and I know bits and pieces of it). If you guys want to connect it to the plot, go ahead.

For next arc, Post Upheaval:

Flynn and Naoki have to defend the Yamato Reactor from a bunch of Magical Girls/Witches in despair who want to break it. They realize something as drastic as that stinks of Johan's involvement. They flip a coin: only one of them can go, as one has to stay behind to stop the other if/when Johan drives him over the Despair Event Horizon. Flynn loses the flip.

He goes to fight Johan.

So: how would the fight go, including the SMT IV boss-banter and responses?

Question about Nyarlathotep: When he take's someone's form, does he copy any powers that they potentially have (and to what extent)?

Yep: he can perfectly duplicate someone's skills as seen in Arena.

Don't jump the gun yet, we have yet to confirm that it really is Nyarly in Arena. Considering that Sho's Persona is Tsukiyomi, we might not be sure if it's really Nyarly.

Disregard the Flynn vs Johan comment. I have a good Post-Upheaval outcome for the Sisterhood.

Basically, everything's fallen apart for them. Madoka is nowhere to be found. Usagi and Sakura have lost control of everyone but their closest friends. They've each picked up a cabal of REALLY overzealous followers who are at each others throats (spurred on behind the scenes by Johan): everyone else is in inconsolable despair, demanding Madoka be returned to power. Metatron is beating down the door demanding their compliance, and Johan is about to make his move to push them all over the Despair Event Horizon. Basically, the Sisterhood is GONE. The Lieberty movement goes to deliver the death blow...but then Sayaka and Madoka make their appearance. Madoka apologizes to everyone: she had become too overprotective of them, and they had become overly reliant on her. One of her apostles kowtows, saying "Her Grace" has no need to apologize for she can do no wrong, but Madoka tells her that's not the case. The Sisterhood lifted her up as an infallible Messiah, when in the end the fact she didn't see Nyarlathotep for who he truly was is clear evidence that she is only human and as flawed as any of them. Rather than caring about her ideals, they worshiped HER as an icon of purity that would always protect her, so that when her flaws caught up to her it was all the more devastating. Sayaka says NOBODY is without flaws, not even Madoka, but she knows that people have the strength to overcome their flaws and stand tall and proud. Johan tries a "The Reason You Suck" Speech on Sayaka, calling her "Oktavia" and saying that it's rather rich that SHE'S giving lectures on people's flaws. Sayaka agrees: she DID fall to her weakness. Everyone has a Monster inside them, and once you give into it, it can turn you into something awful. She summons Oktavia and for the first time, Johan is stunned: as far as he knew, Witches were uncontrollable and unable to be turned into Personas. Sayaka declares that doesn't mean that there's no coming back from it. If she, the Goddess of Fallen Magical Girls, has the strength overcome her darker side, all of them do. Madoka says they don't need her to be strong: she puts her full faith in them and their ability to carry on even without her, so long as they continue to stand for the teachings of the Sisterhood. She then issues her final edict: Take. Johan. Down. The Magical Girls realize that it would be better to go down fighting than just stand there and fall into despair again: if "Her Grace" believes they can stand on their own, they're willing to try. They rally behind Usagi as Sayaka herself joins the fray. Realizing he's lost control of the situation and is staring down a group of very miffed Mahou Shoujo, Johan decides now would be a very good time toleave. Unfortunately, the good guys don't have a chance to celebrate: Metatron bursts in with a group of angels in tow, ready to FORCE the Sisterhood to join. There's a huge fight, and the Sisterhood manages to win. Madoka watches as they accept Usagi as their new leader, but then hears a voice behind her, calling her out for having a Messiah Complex: she loved having people depend on her, loved feeling needed, to the degree she didn't care about whether or not her protection was really good for them in the long run. Madoka agrees that she did feel that way on some level. The voice should know: it's HER after all. She turns and embraces her Shadow, which transforms into a Persona: a humanized and clearly weaker version of Kriemhild Gretchen. She smiles to herself: she isn't TOTALLY worthless, and she supposes that's good enough. She decides to go thank Tenma for pulling her out of her own Heroic BSoD and telling her how to help the Sisterhood. The arc ends as the Sisterhood pulls itself back together, and Usagi is crowned Goddess of Magical Girls.

So what do you think?

I was thinking maybe a full synthesis between my Midnight Channel storyline and your Witch storyline. I could easily see the mastermind behind this particular plan being Nyarlathotep, considering he already tried something like that in Persona 4 Arena. This could be the point where Madoka realizes the Witches are too big a threat to be just left alone. As it stands now, the Puella Magi are big targets for the GUAE. Sure, they can stop Oktavia's rampage whenever she comes out, but that really ends up as a Zero-Sum Game even if they do. She figures that they might as well turn the Witches into assets they can control rather than wait until Nyarlathotep can take control of them himself, and gives the go-ahead for the Midnight Channel Experiment. From there it's a race to see who ends up with control over the Witches, while the GUAG tries to keep Homura out of the abyss until then...

That could be good, but the latest one to stop Oktavia's rampage was Miki Aono/Cure Berry, due to a long-standing comparison that Sayaka and Miki got together (like voice, color, opposite life direction, etc).

My original plan, however, was just to use the Witches' awakening as a distraction of something bigger. Can't describe how in detail, but it'll take cue from something of an epic battle like in The Avengers, in both space and Earth. It'll also culminate with the GUAE's plan to crush Commander Shepard in a twisted take of the ending of Mass Effect 3, and eventually, the addition of the Reapers in their purest 'destructive harvester' phase as an asset to the GUAE.

If you're reading the spoiler page, please don't put that somewhere in the Pantheon yet.

I see: that's quite a plan. Can't wait to see how it plays out.

Maybe we could run our plans parallel to each other. Not only is the GUAE going for what you described above, but Nyarlathotep is running his own agenda that feeds off of it: breaking Madoka's spirit by Witchifying her apostles and 'precious friend' Homura, thus proving that a. humans ARE Witches and thus cannot be saved and b. her wish was pointless and she's just as powerless as she was when she was human. The result: Kriemhild Gretchen. It'd be a good 'final exam' for the Puella Magi's new personas.

The plan is also pretty dependent in events of Blaz Blue, which may be seen in Chronophantasma. See, Garrus Vakarian is currently mirroring his Loyalty Mission in Mass Effect 2, with Sidonis' place being taken by Litchi Faye-Ling. He may act rather harsh here, but I do plan that things will end in a 'Paragon End' in which he forgives her transgressions. Chrono Phantasma seems to lean on Litchi being redeemed, but until actual news comes out, I can't just make up my own conclusion (AKA, I had Litchi redeemed, but then CP shows that she's not). Since Garrus is probably Shepard's biggest Number Two, I thought it would benefit that Garrus' conclusion also runs in parallel with this overall plan. So... yeah, that's why it's been a little stagnant. Damn you, ASW.

Hmmm, I guess that I will have to say something here. But first some questions....

I would like to know of the reasoning to the seminary between Witches and Shadow's, but cause from my understanding of it... they are not an analogue to each other.

What makes you say that? To me In Jungian psychology terms, Yes, Shadows and Witches (as far as The Madokaverse is concerned) are analogies.

In what context? Shadows/Persona are a manifestation of the self... an aspect of a person and their quirks. An exaggeration of such in the case of shadows, but they are as much a part of the subject as their hand.

Witches, as far as it has been looked into, is a manifestation of curses based on what a character desires... the very wish they made to become what they are...

Charlotte and sweets, Oktavia and the band/dancers, Candeloro and her familiars... they are all relate to the wishes that dropped them into the world of witches and MG's. The only two exception's are Homulily and maybe Kriemhild Gretchen, which in both cases we know nothing about.

From a spiritual perspective, Witches and Shadows are similar because as you said in your first paragraph, If Shadows are the manifestation of the self, and If I take Kyubey's Lack of Empathy into account, the wishes the Puella Magi desired seem to end up more twisted than they wanted. Oktavia and Sayaka are one and the same, and so are the other Puell Magi, yes?

If this doesn't convince you, you won this one...

And crap, my neck is stiff.

This would put a hamper on Krimzon's overall plot. Leangle is very much a Madoka Magica expert so every of his words really counts. So... Krimzon... what says you?

Okay.

I'm going to say it straight out: this is gonna be a loooong entry. I'm naturally kind of long-winded, and talking about the ins and outs of Witches is going to be a hefty task in and of itself. Just bear with me. Here goes...

From what I can tell, Witches don't actually really seem to follow set rules. I mean on one hand, you have Monster of the Week-class Witches, such as Charlotte or Gertrud. Going by the idea of them being a manifestation of the curse they brought on themselves, you have something there: Charlotte wished for sweets, a cheesecake to give to her mother, and she got a junk-food based dungeon and powers, for instance. We can infer, perhaps going by that logic, that Gertrud wanted something to do with roses or a garden or something. So, yeah, you're right in that their barriers are probably based on their wishes: an Ironic Hell.

But then when we get into the Main Characters Witches, like Candeloro, Ophilia or Oktavia, that theory starts to fall apart. Looking at them, their barriers and characterizations are based perhaps less on their wishes and more on their personalities.

So, we have Oktavia. Sayaka Miki wished for Kyosuke's hand to be healed. She said nothing about him falling for her, him playing for her, nothing of the sort. In fact, that's what kicked off the whole debacle. But if her barrier was based off of her wish, why was it an Orchestral Hall? True, she made the wish so that he would be able to play again, but that was never explicitly part of her deal with Kyubey. She wanted his hand healed: that's it. By all accounts, it should have been more akin to a hospital.

Going still further, it made it quite evident that she was jealous of the talents of the other Magical Girls, and she was forced to rely on berserker tactics and healing factor unbecoming of her image as Mami's replacement. Hence, perhaps, her image as a knight-like entity, with heavy plate armor and a massive sword.

Were her barrier based purely and soley on her wish as in the case of Gertrud or Charlotte, these things would have little to no place in it.

Mami's problem was that she was lonely. She wanted to have friends, and to have fun with them. Her witch, Candeloro, manifested a huge tea party, and her card outwardly states that she hates being lonely and refuses to let anyone escape her barrier.

Mami's wish was to 'connect to life', or 'live on', depending on who you ask. These things, again, seem out of place compared to her inner, hidden wants and desires: to have friends that wouldn't leave her.

Kyouko was a bit trickier to pin down, but as far as I can tell, Ophelia has something to do with that love of fantasy and romance she had shoved deep down when her wish blew up in her face. Her witch takes the form of a knight-like figure, perhaps calling to mind the swashbuckling hero she had thought she had been, and it rides atop a unicorn, a fantasy creature. Further adding to the idea of a knight protecting a damsel in distress, Kyouko turns into Ophelia when she loses all hope of bringing Sayaka back. The knight failed to protect her charge.

Again, these things have little to do with her wish to bring people into her father's religion, unless you see Ophelia as a crusader, perhaps. Considering what triggered the transformation and the things we know about Kyouko, however, this connection seems tentative at best. Again, Ophelia seems to have more to do with Kyouko's psyche, and less with her wish.

So why the differences between the Monsters of the Week and the Main Character Witches? Simply put, Charlotte, Gertrud and the like were, at the time of their debut, standard Magical Girl Monsters of the Week: odd creatures with quirks and motifs. Once the big news hit and we got Oktavia, they started basing their designs and barriers around the personalities of their former selves, so that it would hit us harder. It worked, but in return we got a bit of a plot hole. There are a couple of them surrounding the Witches that sprouted up when the big news hit, like why Charlotte's Grief Seed was stuck in a wall. If her transformation was anything like the other ones, it should have been instant. These plot holes appeared when the transition was made between standard (if dark) magical girl fare and Urobuchian Cosmic Horror Story, and they're my only real gripe with an otherwise flawless anime. Heck, I would've overlooked them if my shifts at Target weren't so boring.

But I'm getting sidetracked. How do Shadows fit into all of this?

Seeing how the main character Witches all have motifs fitting their personalities and inner desires, rather than their wishes, I noticed a motif running through all of that. One central to the idea of the Shadow.

Repression.

Again, Sayaka repressed her desires for Kyosuke when she found out she was a lich, and buried them beneath a cavalcade of witch-fighting. She disowned these feelings, as she thought she didn't deserve him. When she became Oktavia, these feelings came boiling out, and became a major theme of her barrier and characteristics as a mermaid. This is how Shadows operate: taking the form of one or more facets of your personality that you, for one reason or another, disowned. Mami's true identity as a lonely Stepford Smiler is well-known, and Kyouko has been revealed to have been like Sayaka at one point: she had buried such foolish thoughts of "Justice" when her father flipped his lid.

All of these things had been buried, and all became central to their Witches. Sayaka desired, deep down, for Kyosuke to play for her, and it was done in the form of Oktavia's barrier. Mami's longing for friends created Candeloro, and a tea party you could never leave. Despite Kyouko's insistence that she worked for herself alone, the knight-like Ophelia proved otherwise. All of these Witches represented their innermost desires, that they had abandoned at some point in time.

The parallels to Shadows are, to me at least, undeniable.

Whew...that took a while to punch out.

With the Wall of Text Krimzon posted, Looks like I have someone agreeing with me here... If only I explained more.

I'm not the best debater...

Ok @troy56 The issue with that is simply that the barriers are a misinterpretation by default, because they are based on an allusion of selfish desires. Which often (like in the case of Oktavia) involve others from their environment... which is part of the key, the other half being the absence of hope.

And now a change of format for @krimzonflygon2: e-mail in-line

>>From what I can tell, Witches don't actually really seem to follow set rules. I mean on one hand, you have Monster of the Week-class Witches, such as Charlotte or Gertrud. Going by the idea of them being a manifestation of the curse they brought on themselves, you have something there: Charlotte wished for sweets, a cheesecake to give to her mother, and she got a junk-food based dungeon and powers, for instance. We can infer, perhaps going by that logic, that Gertrud wanted something to do with roses or a garden or something. So, yeah, you're right in that their barriers are probably based on their wishes: an Ironic Hell.

That is the general outlook, but that in turn relies on something that I pointed out to @troy56... they are based on an allusion of a selfish desire. I am not going to speculate on Gertrud simply based on what she have seen because there is not much known about her before she became a witch. But on Charlotte... it is very much this, an inward desire for sweets, and that is what the entire barrier bases itself around. That one desire... being the want of cheesecake + sweets.

>> But then when we get into the Main Characters Witches, like Candeloro, Ophilia or Oktavia, that theory starts to fall apart. Looking at them, their barriers and characterizations are based perhaps less on their wishes and more on their personalities.

Not so, the rule still applies because it's based on an allusion of desire. Meaning that what you see is based a misinterpretation of a desire (and because we know the characters more; these desires and elements of the barriers are, in part, personal)

>> So, we have Oktavia...

Ok, now based on that has been established. Oktavia is the definition of this... They are always playing/they are always dancing (and if you are wondering about the split, view Oktavia in Ep. 10... her familiars are not the same) but they are always of the two things in Sayaka's internal conflict. The love/idolizing of Kyosuke and the sudden revelation that is Hitomi liking the boy enough to go out with him. At no point is this about Sayaka as a person, it about the defined conflict of Sayaka wanting to do something about her personal logjam (coming clean about her emotions to the boy she loves, or to always be around him) and the loss of hope over being powerless to do anything about Kyosuke walking away with Hitomi. That and the world of Magical girls's not being all rainbows and sunshine...
The Barrier itself is based on that conflict, in part, due to Sayaka being utterly smitten with Kyosuke from when she first saw him play the violin. The Orchestral Hall has more to do with Kyosuke in full than anything else. And the posters are about the truth... all she wants is for him to notice that she gives a damn (granted, in Ep. 10 this might have changed... but we don't see the maze, just the fight arena, so I can't say anything about what might have changed)

>>Mami's problem was that she was lonely. She wanted to have friends, and to have fun with them. Her witch, Candeloro, manifested a huge tea party, and her card outwardly states that she hates being lonely and refuses to let anyone escape her barrier.
Mami's wish was to 'connect to life', or 'live on', depending on who you ask. These things, again, seem out of place compared to her inner, hidden wants and desires: to have friends that wouldn't leave her.

And based on Oktaiva, there is a bit of a running theme. In that Candeloro is also based on an internal conflict... one with Mami's loneliness and isolation at the centre of it all. The reason that her familiars are noticeable isn't because of her loneliness... per se. It that her wish to survive never took into account the isolation that came with it. She is was in a car crash, likely with her parents... important figures that, since becoming an magical girl, are gone. This is what makes her so lonely and desperate to connect with anyone... her fear of that isolation continuing. Which is why her familiars are always of the magical girls because they are the only people that she can connect with, others that live the life she has... both Madoka and Kyouko (or Sayaka and Kyouko, in The Different Story), the two people that she has connect with the most...
That said, there is almost nothing known about her barrier aside from the fact it's inescapable, which has more to do with ending isolation that is does loneliness. But the two are related in that it is her isolation that caused her loneliness... and just about everything that Candeloro has created is an empty gesture/action in ending that loneliness.

>> Kyouko was a bit trickier to pin down, but as far as I can tell, Ophelia has something to do with that love of fantasy and romance she had shoved deep down when her wish blew up in her face. Her witch takes the form of a knight-like figure, perhaps calling to mind the swashbuckling hero she had thought she had been, and it rides atop a unicorn, a fantasy creature. Further adding to the idea of a knight protecting a damsel in distress, Kyouko turns into Ophelia when she loses all hope of bringing Sayaka back. The knight failed to protect her charge.

Not quite, you are close... but... Ophelia is somewhat undefined, being a character from the PSP game. That said, what we do know of her flies in the face of your assertion. Because Ophelia nature is "abandonment" which is a running theme in Kyouko life. The Church abandon her father, which she "corrected" with her wish... but that in turn lead to her being abandon when her father destroyed the family (which is ironic, she does the same thing to Mami by isolating herself and leaving Mami alone) ... which leads to the fight with Oktavia and her epiphany where she "always wanted to protect someone". This is capped by the fact of her sacrifice... where regardless of what happens, she doesn't abandon Oktavia/Sayaka unless in the game where she does, loses all hope and triggers the transformation.

>> Seeing how the main character Witches all have motifs fitting their personalities and inner desires, rather than their wishes, I noticed a motif running through all of that. One central to the idea of the Shadow. Repression.

And this is where I go NO... because repression has little to do with Witches in general. They are not about things that they hold back which define them (what Shadows are) they are about the allusion of desires in which their world around them conspires against them from having.
Sayaka it is Kyosuke and everything that he is... with Mami it's the end to her isolation, with Kyouko it is the end of her being abandoned. With what Charlotte was, it has some connection to the cheesecake she can never have.
The important thing to all of this is that is never really about the trait that a person has, it is about the core desires that the girl's NEVER wish for or come to realize that they desire.

With Shadows, it always inward... about the subject. Like with Kanji, all his shadow represents is him dealing with his softer sides of himself and his image of both himself as well as what that means for his sexuality. Or Rise, for whom is all about her image of herself and the mask she has as an idol. Etc. After all in the series... "I am thou, thou art I" is paramount.
With Witch's... is never about the subject and always about the things around them. Things that the subject has no hope in controlling without acting against it. Mami manages this, by being a bit of a host to those that enter her life... whether they stay with her or not is something she can't control. Sayaka personal logjam about her feeling keeps her for saying what she need to around Kyosuke. And Kyouko has no real clue about her desires until she is near her deathbed.

In all sincerity, I’m glad you got back to me, Leangle. I mean it, I freaking love a good debate, and you made some excellent points. I actually didn’t know how to answer for a bit. Still, I’m not quite out of the game just yet. =)

Let’s start off with your biggest objection. In response to me asserting that Shadows and Witches are both based on repression of an internal part of their host, you strongly disagreed, saying : “With Shadows, it always inward... about the subject. Like with Kanji, all his shadow represents is him dealing with his softer sides of himself and his image of both himself as well as what that means for his sexuality. Or Rise, for whom is all about her image of herself and the mask she has as an idol. Etc. After all in the series... "I am thou, thou art I" is paramount.

With Witch's... is never about the subject and always about the things around them. Things that the subject has no hope in controlling without acting against it. Mami manages this, by being a bit of a host to those that enter her life... whether they stay with her or not is something she can't control. Sayaka personal logjam about her feeling keeps her for saying what she need to around Kyosuke. And Kyouko has no real clue about her desires until she is near her deathbed.”

Well yes…and at the same time no. It is true that Shadows are oftentimes internalized problems. Yosuke’s a good example: he was horrified at his internal thoughts of using Saki Konishi’s death as an excuse to enter the TV. That was purely and simply his own reaction to his own personal, private thoughts. But, as in the case Kanji questioning his sexuality and Rise questioning who the ‘real Rise’ is, it’s sometimes EXTERNAL pressures that either create issues or agitate them further. Shadows are after all really just neglected, twisted, angry Personas: just one of the hundreds of thousands of masks worn by people in response to external stimuli. At the same time, Witches do indeed represent the idea that the wish didn’t give the magical girl what they really wanted. I’m not about to disagree with you on that. But what’s standing in the way of what they really want isn’t always the things around them as opposed to the magical girl herself like you asserted. Sometimes, as I’ll describe below, the magical girl is her own worst enemy *coughSayakacough*.

You used Kanji and Rise as examples. Kanji likely saw no problem whatsoever with sewing and home economics until he hit, say, middle or high school…ish. That’s when the bullying REALLY kicked in. “You like to sew? What a queer! Painting is so not you! But you’re a guy! You don’t act like a guy! Why aren’t you ‘manly’?” And so on and so forth.

Rise? Classic case of identity crisis: the stress got to her, and between the hundreds of different ‘fake celebrities’ she had to be, the touring, the screaming fans, she lost herself. She had no idea what parts of her were her ‘original self’ before she rose to stardom and which parts of her were manufactured for her by her managers and fans. She fled, hoping to sort herself out in the quiet of Inaba.

Yes, both of these are problems that lurk within their own minds, but no, the problems are not purely and simply there. Kanji’s decision to abandon his “sensitive guy who likes to sew” personality stemmed from an outside stimuli: the rejection and the pushback he got from the people around him. Coupled with the rather vague talk his father had given him before he died about “manliness”, Kanji panicked and threw that part of himself away, repulsed at the idea that he may not be a “real man”. That neglected, repressed part of him festered and turned into a Shadow. Sayaka is, surprisingly enough, quite similar to Kanji in the regards that she threw away a part of herself willingly, because she didn’t think it fit who she needed to be. Upon learning that she was, putting it bluntly, a lich, she considered herself unworthy of Kyosuke. She decided that “her only worth left was killing witches”, and forswore everything else. She was going to wear her soul gem completely down and commit suicide, while taking as many witches as she possibly could down with her in one final blaze of glory. Kyosuke was beyond her reach: this was all that she had left, so she might as well suck it up.

Unfortunately, in both cases, their subconscious disagreed. VEHEMENTLY.

Kanji believed that he had to throw away his hobbies to be the tough manly-man he believed his dad wanted him to be, and Sayaka believed she had to throw away her desire for Kyosuke to fill her perceived new role as a mindless, soulless weapon against the witches. That course of action never, EVER works. No matter how vehemently he tried to deny it (at first, at least), Kanji couldn’t help it: he loves stupid cute shit. Sayaka pined desperately for Kyosuke until the very end, no matter how hard she tried to convince herself that he’d never love her as she was and deny herself those feelings.

It’s impossible to keep a part of yourself denied like that forever. They’ll start acting out on their own, particularly if you’re physically or mentally exhausted. Too much stress does nasty things to you, right? Sooner or later, a day WILL come along where they snap: you’re just too drained to keep your darker impulses under control. With the despair born from the fact she had basically sold her soul for nothing and turned herself into a lich, Sayaka certainly fit the ‘mental’ category. The self-destructive witch hunting frenzy she went on sapped her physical strength on top of that. All of this despair, all of this exhaustion, all the anger and hate…Sayaka just couldn’t take it anymore: her conscious mind was unable to hold back the tide any longer, and it was utterly overwhelmed by her shadow. From there, the shadow went on a rampage, trying desperately to fulfill its own needs after being denied for so long. Kanji’s built itself a paradise where it was free to just ‘be itself’, while Sayaka’s created the concert she had longed to hear, while donning a visage that fit the role of “knight” Sayaka had always wanted to be before disowning it in despair.

Consider the fact Hitomi asked Sayaka directly, and I quote, “if she could face her true feelings”.

In the end, she couldn’t. And they destroyed her. They’ve always been there, boiling under the surface. Relatively powerless, but there. But as Sayaka denied them in a fit of ‘sour grapes’ mentality, she simultaneously fed them the diet of repression they needed and exhausted herself to the point she could take it no more. Her conscious mind was at its breaking point.

And so Seyiku lost it.

The terrible irony is that in reality, there was no outside force stopping Sayaka from actually having what she really wanted. Hitomi actually went as far as to give her a head start! Her own self-hatred was all that kept her from claiming what she had dreamed of. Like I said earlier, in this case she was her own worst enemy.

Mami outwardly says she had been running away from reality in her bad ending: she had been trying to convince herself that as long as she was protecting Mikihara, she was happy, when that is explicitly not the case. It simply came down to her trying to be someone she was not, by denying that she was lonely and afraid. She tried to disown her loneliness in its entirety in her Bad End, and fabricate a perfect new self that didn’t need those thoughts. But again, she couldn’t get rid of them, they festered, and when the reality became undeniable, the strain allowed Candeloro to emerge.

Just look at some of her lines:

“It’s inexcusable for these things to happen. I’m a magical girl. My defeat was inexcusable. My weakness killed that boy. I wanted to run away from that fact, so I desperately sought strength. I thought I could repent that way.”

She convinced herself that her loneliness wasn’t a problem as long as she was perfect in every other way. She tried to bury her insecurities under a façade of coolness and absolute strength. When she nearly lost to the Silver Witch a second time, and her actions had done nothing to console the mother of the boy it had killed long ago, that façade became unmaintainable: she WASN’T all-powerful, and she had done nothing to soothe the real problem. Considering that she never encountered this earth-shattering revelation in the other timelines, or she had friends that covered the real issue, her shadow was sated, and she never hit the degree of mental exhaustion that she did in her Bad End that would let the thing overwhelm her.

The way I see it, it may not be the despair itself that gives birth to the witches, per-say. The things are always there. Considering what I know about Jungian psychology, the despair acts as that critical moment of vulnerability where the conscious mind of the Magical Girl is too exhausted to keep itself from being overwhelmed. Consider that another criteria that can bring forth a witch is magical exhaustion, which would cover the aspect of physical exhaustion that is known to let a shadow take over. Just look at Madoka: she wasn’t in despair when she defeated Walpurgis Night during a couple of the timelines, but she was utterly drained in terms of her physical abilities, and she became Gretchen regardless.

...I hate to mediate, but I'm going to conclude you're both right on this, despite me having not a single lore of the Madoka series.

Leangle does have a point with the wishes and how their transformation into witches are a part of their desires, serving the explanation of how they got into the world of Witches with the curse as a price for their wishes, but as Krimzon points out, the Puella Magi's transformation of Witches are a part of how the Puella Magi (except Madoka and Homura, both of whom we don't know a thing about.) suppress their feelings, thus somewhat, but not fully, confirming my thesis so far regarding Jungian Psychology. But then again, these witches were from the PSP game.

Oh, this requires a response and @krimzonflygon2 you will have one... but at this moment, I am about to head into my local FGC for some games.

Please allow me some time.

Very well, then... Let's wait til Krimzon speaks.

I'm looking forward to it. Although that phrasing...I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous. I promise this though: I'll meet it with everything I've got. An opponent like Leangle deserves nothing less.

On a different note, I want to add recap pages for my entries. How would I go around building those?

Do as you please, man.

First, you have "Recap/" as a namespace.

And so....
My response...

>> Well yes...and at the same time no. It is true that Shadows are oftentimes internalized problems. Yosuke’s a good example: he was horrified at his internal thoughts of using Saki Konishi’s death as an excuse to enter the TV. That was purely and simply his own reaction to his own personal, private thoughts. But, as in the case Kanji questioning his sexuality and Rise questioning who the ‘real Rise’ is, it’s sometimes EXTERNAL pressures that either create issues or agitate them further. Shadows are after all really just neglected, twisted, angry Personas: just one of the hundreds of thousands of masks worn by people in response to external stimuli. At the same time, Witches do indeed represent the idea that the wish didn’t give the magical girl what they really wanted. I’m not about to disagree with you on that. But what’s standing in the way of what they really want isn’t always the things around them as opposed to the magical girl herself like you asserted. Sometimes, as I’ll describe below, the magical girl is her own worst enemy *coughSayakacough*.

Well the problem with this is that external pressures only serve to highlight internal issue in the case of the Shadows. As I said before, Shadow are often an exaggeration of a trait... a trait that the person already has. Kanji, for example, is not the manly-man that he is trying to live to be, and frankly shouldn't try to be because it's not really whom he is as a person as much as he tries to say otherwise. But on the flip side of this, he is also not the extreme that the Shadow Kanji represents. He , at some point, has to face that truth... and the confrontation with his Shadow serves that purpose.
Sayaka, as much as she IS her own worse enemy, doesn't have that type of a conflict of accepting herself. Because her personal logjam isn't about her... it's about Kyosuke and the only thing that Sayaka is guilty of is inaction (and maybe, murder).

>>Sayaka is, surprisingly enough, quite similar to Kanji in the regards that she threw away a part of herself willingly, because she didn’t think it fit who she needed to be. Upon learning that she was, putting it bluntly, a lich, she considered herself unworthy of Kyosuke. She decided that “her only worth left was killing witches”, and forswore everything else. She was going to wear her soul gem completely down and commit suicide, while taking as many witches as she possibly could down with her in one final blaze of glory. Kyosuke was beyond her reach: this was all that she had left, so she might as well suck it up.

Yes and no... Yes, in that, as a means of coping... Sayaka retreated into an internal shell. Ignoring the issue entirely as a means to her task (killing witches).
No, in that, this action isn't really Sayaka throwing away her emotions for Kyosuke. It's her desperate attempt at running away from the problem. The problem being as state, her inaction, her constant need to not change the world around her as the world does so anyway. Her will to not step forward and confront her own feeling about him to herself, honestly.

>> Consider the fact Hitomi asked Sayaka directly, and I quote, "if she could face her true feelings".

That is interesting, because it's not about something that is a discovery. Sayaka has been pining for the boy for years, she can't hide that from Madoka and I doubt that it went unnoticed with Hitomi. In fact, prior to being an MG, the fact that she is out and out smitten with Kyosuke is established heavily.
There is a point to that, of course, and that becomes really noticeable once you notice the logjam. It's the fact that she is so absorb with his acceptance of her that it becomes a liability. She has no idea of what he sees in her and she can't confront the possibility that is different from what she sees in him.
Something that Hitomi outright challenges her to do, to be that honest... not only with herself but with him. Which Sayaka doesn't even attempt, due to her new complicated life as a "lich" adding to issues that she has had since episode one.

>> Mami outwardly says she had been running away from reality in her bad ending: she had been trying to convince herself that as long as she was protecting Mikihara, she was happy, when that is explicitly not the case. It simply came down to her trying to be someone she was not, by denying that she was lonely and afraid.

Not quite, because that over looks how extremely fragile Mami truly is. It is why her isolation is brings along this crushing sense of loneliness and hints of fear. She not being something that she isn't out of some wish to keep protecting Mikihara. That is but one of the many masks that Mami wears, and at the core is a desperate conflict to keep someone around her that she can rely on. She wants to have someone around her like family or a best friend, at the very least someone close, so she isn't isolated any-more... someone to, at the very least, comfort her fears and depend on.
And anything that even remotely suggests that doing so is impossible will cause Mami to one of two things, snap or lose all hope in life (which is followed quickly by death [via her own hand] or the transformation).

>> She convinced herself that her loneliness wasn’t a problem as long as she was perfect in every other way. She tried to bury her insecurities under a façade of coolness and absolute strength. When she nearly lost to the Silver Witch a second time, and her actions had done nothing to console the mother of the boy it had killed long ago, that façade became maintainable: she WASN’T all-powerful, and she had done nothing to soothe the real problem. Considering that she never encountered this earth-shattering revelation in the other timelines, or she had friends that covered the real issue, her shadow was sated, and she never hit the degree of mental exhaustion that she did in her Bad End that would let the thing overwhelm her.

Which is funny, because in the series... you already get a sense that she is exhausted. She has been clinging to the hope that she can find someone that is like her and the only result of that is Kyouko distancing herself from Mami(Drama CD 3 "Farewell story"/The first half of The Different Stroy). She is aloof, distance, and hesitant... when we first met her. Sure she is cool and calm, but any time the scene gets quiet you notice how insecure she is. The smile she has when Madoka confides in her in episode three is genuine. The fact that her search was over makes her over-joyed and Mami's personality is in complete contrast... she is confident, headstrong, sure of herself and unafraid of everything around her.

>> The way I see it, it may not be the despair itself that gives birth to the witches, per-say. The things are always there. Considering what I know about Jungian psychology, the despair acts as that critical moment of vulnerability where the conscious mind of the Magical Girl is too exhausted to keep itself from being overwhelmed. Consider that another criteria that can bring forth a witch is magical exhaustion, which would cover the aspect of physical exhaustion that is known to let a shadow take over.

Not really, because that also over looks once very important thing. PM 3 little magical girl world is systematic. The system itself is build with a no-win condition. There is no magical girl in the series that is safe from having their hopes dashed, and that comes from an external desires that they can't control. Hope, oddly enough, is the only thing that can really stop it ... so long as it is completely unwavering, which reality sets to rob them of first and foremost by heap said girl's on a despair. Either by the fights they face or the personal conflicts that they have completely overwhelming them.

>> Just look at Madoka: she wasn’t in despair when she defeated Walpurgis Night during a couple of the timelines, but she was utterly drained in terms of her physical abilities, and she became Gretchen regardless.

Yes, but... we have no idea what she wished for aside from the first timeline shown, and even then the data on that comes from a Drama CD. In fact, that is the biggest problem with Gretchen and Madoka. There are no real reasons to show why she becomes a magical and because of that we have no idea how the system reacts to her the way that it does aside from the karma issue.

Stand by for my response: work's taken over my life. Until then, as long as we're on the subject of SMT and PMMM, I'd like to get everyone's input. What alignments do you think the Magical Quintet members would be? I mean, besides Sayaka and Kyouko. Going over them would just be stating the obvious.

You mean in the SMT standard of Chaos, Law and Neutral?

It's hard, really hard to see Madoka as anything BUT Neutral... her road is difficult one, but not one based on absolute calamity (Lucifer and his demons) nor that of absolute order (YVHV [aka God] and his angels). Even when she knows that she has the power to remake the known universe in her image, she flat out refused to do so to deal with the issue directly. And she does so without seeking perfection... an act that is beyond those of Chaos and Law.

Every other Magical Girl in the PM 3 universe is harder to pin down however. Homura is interesting in that she is a Chaos-leaning Neutral. The results of her actions are clear, she will tip the scales in Madoka's favour... but going to take a lot of chaotic actions to do it, and quite a bit of power-seeking. Mami is a defaulted Law-based character, she needs to be for the sake of her sanity. Once that is removed, the results are NEVER pretty, and always lead to "The silence". Interesting, I would think that just on the personality and actions, Sayaka is also Law-based. She does maintain a sense of rigidity about her and what she does. On top of this, there is the fact that she deals with things in an nearly binary matter.... which is a card-carrying trait of law.

I have no real clue about Kyouko. It would seems to be Chaos, but then... you really have to know about the character and Kyouko is the least defined of the five. So it's up in the air.

I seem to find her more on the Neutral with Chaotic leanings

Well, come Madoka Rebellion, I think we can go ahead with the Shadow Theory. Sayaka can summon Oktavia as a Persona.

I'm the same guy: krimzonflygon. Forgot my freaking password when I deleted my cookies.

Anyway...

If the gods of the Pantheon are unable to interact with the "mortal world" as it were, I didn't know. Looking at some of the entries, though, I got the idea that they can, what with Vaas meeting Yurin L'Ciel as detailed in the Mentalism entry. Deus from Asura's Wrath has been noted to have challenged Vegeta for his position. As far as I can tell, the mortal world and the Pantheon can interact on some level.

Besides, Yu accepting a position that leaves him more or less unable to interact with 4 of the IT members, one of them being his best friend, is just not something I can see him doing. And last I checked, Nanako isn't in the Pantheon either: if he can't see her again, I can't see that being anything short of a dealbreaker, what with him being the God of Kind Brotherhood. Kinda kills the point.

Way I got it figured, after the fiasco that happened earlier, Mami decided to bite the bullet and go to Yu for help taming Candeloro, so the GUAE can't take advantage of it or the Witches of the other magical girls. Got the idea from an entry on Domains that hinted that it may be possible, and with a Witch arc forming, I decided to go for it.

So the two of them took a trip down to Inaba, gathered the IT, and headed to Junes. Mami proceeds to lose her nerve and run for the hills. I personally don't see anything wrong with it, but if there's something I overlooked, let me know.

Well your reasoning is solid. It wouldn't hurt if you also exposit how Yu descended and asked for help of his yet-to-be-deified IT team, that's all. Aside of that I'm looking forward to what you have in store.

Looking back, I rearranged some of the dialogue to make it fit better. I established that Madoka compiled a dossier with the details on how her world and the Witches operated for the non-deified members of the Investigation Team, and I plan to establish that she was the one who opened a gate to the mortal world. I mean, she's certainly powerful enough.

As for how Yu got the team on board, I figured all he'd need to do is introduce Mami and tell the team what's going on.

If I may suggest, if Mami's on board and about to get friendship stuffs here, she could be reminded of the friends she made even in the Pantheon. On top of my head, aside of the Puella Magi friends, I can think of Usagi, Rushuna, Litchi, Karen... and if you squint and think possible, you could even include those who saved her from Terumi, but not yet on her friend list. Like Deadpool, Bang or Tali'Zorah.

Just a suggestion.

Oh, definitely. That's the name of the game when it comes to Persona.

On a different note, who do you think Madoka would approach if she wants to know more about Shadows and Personae? An expert like Mitsuru? Philemon himself?

Also, where were you planning to have Homura during all this? Where'd she go after swiss-cheesing Fluttershy?

Isolating herself, which would fasten the pace of her turning into Homulily.

This is where I need more MLP writers here, because I really wouldn't know how the ponies would act in the face of Fluttershy getting swiss-cheesed. I dunno who'd understand "Yeah, sure, that's Fear Toxin. Understandable." or who'd go "How can you do that to Fluttershy!?". Discord would be interesting to see his reaction for and could lead to a battle due to misunderstanding. And I dunno if Discord would unleash it directly to Homu, or those who'd seek to calm her down.

Madoka... should just seek Philemon really. Lucky her, thanks to Tatsuya, Philemon has been past 'jackass' era. So... yeah.

Alright. Considering Madoka's omniscience in regards to the other Puella Magi, Homura would probably be actively trying to block her out by this point in her attempt to be left alone. Now I just gotta figure out how to write Madoka's conversation with Philemon.

Aaaand, you're in luck: I'm a brony! All things considered, here's how I'd see the other members of the Mane Six reacting:

Twilight would be the voice of reason. As long as there isn't an immediate threat, or the chance of Princess Celestia being disappointed in her, she's not one who'd let her emotions rule her actions. She'd be furious that Homura hurt Fluttershy, but she'd want to find out the answers first before declaring war on someone like Homura, which would probably get their butts kicked and put them on Madoka's bad side too.

Rarity is a little more tricky, but I can see her going along with Twilight in finding out the full story behind what happened. Like Twilight, she wouldn't be looking to get into a fight with Homura (or a fight period, considering how badly messed up her mane'd get) unless she absolutely had to. Revenge is so unladylike, after all...and more than that, Homura just plain scares her.

Pinkie'd want to find Homura, pull out a knife, and...

...cut her a big slice of cake and invite her to Fluttershy's Get-Well party. It's just in her nature, and besides, there's no WAY one of Madoka's friends would hurt Fluttershy on purpose, right! Although, in all honesty, getting her into the fight against Homura has SO much potential for humor. Considering the fact Pinkie's pretty much her own law of physics, she'd probably be the one with the best chance. XD

On the complete other end of the spectrum, we have Rainbow Dash: she'd be the one spearheading the idea of taking revenge. Considering how hotheaded she is, and the fact that Fluttershy was her friend longer than any of the other four, she'd be LIVID and, if you'd pardon the term, chomping at the bit for a chance to fight Homura (some small part of her'd probably interested to find out if she can keep up with someone who can stop time). That'd be an interesting fight: between Homura's time control and how how insanely fast RD is, neither one is 'quite' quick enough to hit each other.

Applejack would probably agree with RD that Homura needs to hurt for what she did, but being the cooler head of the two she'd also be smart enough to know she's outmatched. That being said, she'd settle for giving Homura the cold shoulder or something: something not aggressive enough to get Homura to attack her, but enough to make sure Homura know that attacking Fluttershy was unforgivable. Just look at "Look Before You Sleep" for an example of how passive-aggressive Applejack can be.

Now, Discord...I think it would be general consensus that he DOES NOT FIND OUT ABOUT THIS. Oh, he'd heal Fluttershy up on the spot, sure, but AFTER that? No telling what kind of Hell'd break loose. That could be a Gaiden chapter or something, with people trying to keep Discord out of the loop.

Hope that helped at least a little bit.

Thing is, it'd take time for me to be a brony, so if I am the write those parts, there's no telling how much I'd make the ponies OOC. So I guess that I'm asking your help to write scenes in regards of the ponies. Maybe when I put the resolution scene with Homu and Madoka, you could edit the inbetween to show how Madoka got there (ponies involved). Counting on you here...

Though one thing that should be noted is how the ponies would also react with how they're told by those looking to comfort Homu that... it's probably Joker's fault. But I do agree that it'd be interesting to weigh out with the earlier 'animosity' between Homu and Fluttershy due to the voice.

Oh, I'd be happy to help. That guide I just wrote up was really just to give a basic idea of how they'd approach the situation. If you tell me how you'd like it to play out, like leading up to a fight between them and Homura, and I can work out their actual actions, if that makes any sense. I just don't want to go too far off the rails: if you tell me the progression of events, I can write the ponies in a way that fit.

Since he is a shadow ally for the PM, we should definiately get the involvement of Kroak into this.

Where exactly does Kroak fit in to all of this?

In regards to Kroak, refer to Magical Sisterhood. His part in the alliance is a combination of providing intel to make sure the old system stays dead, aid in the struggle against Chaos (especially Tzeentch), providing raw muscle as meat shields, and doing the nasty stuff needed to fight the sisterhood's enemies (thus keeping their hands clean).

The pantheon lore has him believing that the Puella Magi in particular are important to his agenda against Chaos and entropy, thus he has a more personal investment in watching out for them. This also includes beating the crap out of a witch state if need be. Also of note is that Slaan are Not So Different from the Incubators (especially in the nigh incapable of comprehending human emotion or human morality departmemt), just replace dishonest duplicity with ruthless destruction of threats to the world and creation/ Blue-and-Orange Morality grade lawfulness. The new army book gave them some spell that's essentially a high level time magic that teleports great distances at will.

On a side note, I support letting Discord get "in the loop". Have the M6 tell Discord that The Joker did it. The potential for some truly epic connumpence is just staggering. Not to mention the sheer Crowning Moment Of Funny potential if done right.

This is a good enough reason for Kroak do it with addition of Usagi (optional) and in the mix.

...You were planning on a second part?

Frankly to use something as malevolent as the Nyarlathotep, you would really have a chance as braking her back into the status quo than simply manipulating reality. Personally, something like that would be rather entertaining to read...

But that is me, and that angle as a lot of things that you can use to that end, Yu, the cast of SMT in the pantheon, the concept of shadows, etc that I would use eat up. Tsubaki conflict is internal to some point, that is something that would be very useful in the world of SMT/Persona, and it would highlight her struggle with current events in Blaz Blue.

The mods have said it. I've split into two pages. Anyone can go give it pretty indexes...

It has been indexed prettily. Thanks for helping!

I'm sorry, but I meant, Book One and Book Two...

Hrm, the Books are on this index; I don't know what you mean beyond that. Sorry. :/

I split the books into Book One and Book Two. I was asking to index those two.

Dude's banned and probably is not allowed here again. I suppose we should just move on.

Not exactly; my crossover discussion has a Rawpower EX 2...he might still be here.

That's also banned... He has contacted me through other means...

What did he do to warrant the ban in the first place?

... To the PM-mobile, you.

I'll think about it. But, the Deadpool thing was due to me self-deprecating myself...

Oh. Okay then. I'll be busy trying to write the rest of the epic of Meteor, Fourze (along with Pinkie Pie's involvement) as soon as I can. I'm just trying to make sure I don't put too many characters.

Speaking of which, who's updating the characters involved in the tales?

It had to be stashed away in Discussion topic just so it doesn't bloat out the page size. You can put them back in Recap page if you want.

It's fine with me

All right. So far, there are two plots for mine: Kengo and Miu trying to revive Gentaro while Gentaro is hell-bent on killing Ryusei and Pinkie Pie rallying up her own party to fight against the person who destroyed her party. Each of you have your own plots also, so what say that after I finish Party of Armageddon part 4 that all of us start our fusion?

Hold up...

My plan comes as these:

• The Homulily project. Joker attempts to, like Kefka and Terumi before, turn Homura into Homulily as seen in the PSP game, using the help of Fake Memories done by Tsukishima... The problem here, since in his last moments in canon, Tsukishima is seen as sympathetic, I wonder if this would affect Tsukishima's performance.
• Following the Homulily project, it will turn out that Ignis being sent into the GUAG was a bad idea. She wrecked havoc and had also summoned Arfoire to upload a virus towards the Robot Wars Division, disabling them to launch. On the other hand, there was another assault by Precia Testarossa and Ghetsis Harmonia, to be countered by Fate Testarossa. However, with this chaos, Fate ends up overwhelmed and in the end... Precia regains her sanity and some of her morality and died protecting Fate, leaving Ghetsis as the sole God for Abusive Parents (this is mainly due to the Huckebeins getting increasingly Complete Monster-ish and some positive portrayal to Precia (Movie 1ST and Gears of Destiny). Oh, and this also marks Signum's triumphant return, and possibly features Sanger Zonvolt on ground, using his human-sized Zankantou as per Project X Zone. (May have to insert a small Litchi cameo, considering how she and Arfoire hate each other)
• Atmosphere fight of the Robot War division. Thus far it'd be the same as the Axel one, so I'm thinking on how to get it better. Will definitely include both Ryoma Nagare and Kamina, and possibly Elzam/Ratsel.

However... all those will culminate into...

• The ultimate Reaper assault. The final part of the Reaper invasion. It eventually turns out that the Puella Magi corruptions, Relius losing Ignis on purpose and eventually getting Arfoire's help to virus the Robot Wars division was to let the Reapers enter the GUAG base and Pantheon grounds, ensuring that many worshippers fall... and the main target being the demise of Commander Shepard. This will culminate into the extremely divisive ending of Mass Effect 3, but perhaps the GUAG can point out just how bullshit the ending is and create their own better ending while keeping Shepard alive and well... The question is how (aside of rallying Shepard that the Catalyst are just wrong and they can prove it).

Aand that's what I intend to finish. If you want fusion, you can also add up with the final part.

OR! You can go with this:

• Retake Scarlet Devil Mansion saga: A small saga. Now that Patchouli, Meiling and Flandre were deified, the stage is set to assault and retake Scarlet Devil Mansion and free Remilia. If Remilia is freed, Sakuya will have no choice but to follow, regardless of how she feels about being totally ignored by ZUN, and then hope that GUAG can convince and forgive her for that. Open for who's in for the rescue (however, Patchy, China and Flan are required)

I actually don't know any of the characters you're talking about so I will be completely lost.

Have you completed your recent story already?

No, not yet. I just don't want to constantly be typing my stuff all the time. It's gonna be pretty long.

Well at most, I just finished one chapter of an eventual saga of the Reapers, an update to the Axel and the Magic Knights story... now featuring Genesic GaoGaiGar

Hmmmm, what I left was to be embryonic... from my POV that story thread it done, and someone else that continue on from that point if they wish.

What for?

to even out the battle between the GUAG and GUAE. I can't think of any GUAE god to subject this on.

How about we make him becoming best buds with Kazuma Kiryu form Yakuza/Ryu ga Gotoku.

They're both Papa Wolves, have daughters (well, Asura has one but you get the point) and both are capable of much ass kicking.

Somehow after the event that started their friendship, they share a drink. While watching the two girls playing.

Go right ahead... Add in Litchi as you please. Also, if you like, add in Paio II, adding Boobie trio in a story.

I'm not even sure she exists considering I've searched high and low in Negima character list and she's nowhere to be seen. Nor was I familiar enough with Negima. Plus, I'm not sure Paio is the type to be a Cool Big Sis who'd give a Cooldown Hug (she's probably more of The Tease)

Bonus: Adding probably what's called "Hazama Mogu Mogu" (don't worry, Relius can always give him new body) as well as the ending the segment with Deadpool chastising the author (me) about his apparent obsession with Litchi

Also see the other part of my statement - Overdeities, Greater Gods, and other deities with power level quivalent to Greater God or higher (like Optimus Prime, Simon the Digger, Shizuo Heiwajima, Guy Shishioh, or a post Revelation Shinji Ikari, for example) stand a fair chance of beating him, or at the very least putting up a spectacular fight.

In terms of issuing orders, I get the impression that that's much more up Jubei's alley, or hell, possibly even Bloodedge's (haven't read most of the Manual, just played CT and CS).

You know, I've been thinking about it for some time, on a lesser note is a battle between Sasuke and Jin Kisaragi with either one of them giving a Not So Different speech towards the other.

In the case of your suggestion, I predict Sasuke giving the speech and Jin not even dignifying it with a response other than stabbing him through the face with Yukianesa. Though my idea was basically that Sasuke actually tries to Pet the Dog with Shinji in his own way, except it of course Goes Horribly Wrong and induces a massive Freak Out. While Shinji was in his "End" persona. And then various Deities try to give him a Cooldown Hug, with varying degrees of success. End result: Haruhi has a massive headache, Sasuke's not allowed within ten universes of Shinji, and Madoka has to be on call at all times in case someone drives him crazy again.

As for your idea, I'm pretty neutral on it. Let's add a part where Heart steps in and, of course, gives Sasuke a speech about hatred.

And as for your suggestion on my idea, meh, Why not? Jin does look down on his vengeance. The whole Sasuke vs. Jin thing is an entirely different topic.

Sounds good, except that I'm not too familiar with Heart and/or her home work.

If you meant Heart Aino, she should've been preaching about Love and heart... not hatred. Sasuke instead hates it and be an utter Jerkass on her about it.

Of course I'm talking about Aino Heart. Also, what I meant to say was Heart giving a speech about how bad hatred is.

Yeah, just make sure you know the extent of Heart's personality tho. Youtube is your best friend. (And be sure to drop Ragna in to cheer her up after Sasuke's Jerkassery)

The thing with Sasuke and Shinji was Sasuke going, "Hey, you're Shinji Ikari, right? The kid who killed every living thing on the planet after snapping from that bitch Asuka and every other sentient being treating you like worthless shit? I actually look up to you as sort of a role model - you, whom the entire universe shat upon, and who promptly back."

To which Shinji would of course respond: "Wha.... You bastard.... Do you honestly think I WANTED it to happen like that?! You think I wanted all that blood on my hands?! YOU THINK I WANTED TO KILL EVERYONE WHO COULD'VE EVER GIVEN THE SLIGHTEST DAMN ABOUT ME?! WHAT THE HELL!? ... Just what kind of Omnicidal Maniac do you take me for? ..... MOTHER!!!" *snaps fingers, Eva-01 appears* DIE! ALL OF YOU ASSHOLES, JUST DIE!!!!"

Yeah, Shinji might be a bit OOC in that, but he's already in a state of mental instability in the first place. Not familiar with Heart at all, though I feel semi-confident in my ability to write Ragna. Not that I've actually written anything for Blaz Blue yet....

Actually, you've got it right. That's not OOC in the slightest bit at all for Shinji. He's normally a peaceful teenage High schoooler.

I meant the almost Guy-level screaming, but yeah, pretty much.

[[spoiler: And then Shinji goes on a rage-driven rampage, Sasuke gets one-shotted by Kaworu, who then gathers a group of people to try and calm the "End"-persona Shinji down. Eva-01 grapples with Primus, Nanoha, Fate, and the gang try hitting Shinji with a low-grade befriending, Kamina and Simon issue a Rousing Speech, Hazama and Izaya make things worse, and after much poking and prodding by the Status Quo, Haruhi Suzumiya drop-kicks the Reset Button.

In the end, Sasuke is not allowed within two universes of Shinji, and Dream decrees that Shinji is to be left the hell alone when he's in his "End" state. If he goes crazy in one of his other states after being picked on, at least he won't carry the risk of ending all creation.]]

Or something like that.

Shinji should be left alone period as he himself has been stating. As what you've stated before, Madoka will comfort him after all the chaos is done.

Of course. Because if anybody needs comforting, hanging out with Hope Incarnate is totally the way to do.

It all sounds okay.

As with my Sasuke vs. Jin idea, in which may be in delay, If Sasuke's (as Eva Unit 01 suggested) giving the Not So Different Hannibal Lecture, it would be something like this:

Sasuke: So Kisaragi, if you're fighting on the side of good, let's not forget you and I were popular with the ladies, have 1 older brother, formerly nice children with Bad childhoods, and last but not least, betrayed our groups (Konaha and NOL respectively). You thought I wouldn't bring that up, did you? At least you were one of the few I had some respect for.

Jin:.....

Sasuke: Don't deny it. You once said "you'll always get what you want" if something doesn't go in your favor. Once I'm done with you, I'll-

A very silent Jin interrupted him by stabbing him with Yukianisa.

Keeping Jin silent can give the impression that he was actually listening. I think it'd be a bit more in-character to add something like