Ask The Tropers
Have a question about tropes, the content, or how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help. If you're looking for a trope, head over to Trope Finder. If you want to propose a new trope, pitch it to the masses at You Know, That Thing Where
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1 Jul 20th, 2017 at 12:12PM
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You could try asking in You Know That Show...
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21 Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:01PMMusicIn addition to issues with indentation and (to a lesser degree) grammar, JohnHowarth
has made bizarre edits (such as asking why Kidz Bop doesn't cover songs about drugs on a Headscratchers page) that may or may not be vandalism/trolling. I've sent him a message regarding his indentation, but I'm mentioning it here in case we need to take action.
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Kidz Bop? I feel like I'm in a Jacksfilms parody. Someone actually takes that seriously enough to write diatribes about it? -
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Isn't that misuse of something even as flexible as WMG? -
Bumping because he's now answering his own Headscratchers queries. -
Calling him in. -
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Settles that nicely as a vandal. Bounced both and reverted the most recent edit. -
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Yep. Bounced again. -
^^^^^^ Sorry to derail the conversation but serious question: Is posting an answer along with your own Headscratcher really considered vandalism? I've done that sometimes too, with the best of intentions, and never knew this is against the rules. -
There's no rule against replying to one's own headscratchers posts, but it is weird. -
He could have had a polite discussion in the EBS thread -his POV, the mods saying how we do things here, etc. It would've been cool. Ban evading rather puts the kibosh on that option. -
Back again. Can't even make a halfway new name. :P
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Can they be google bounced? Or are is that not an option this time? -
He might be even more persistent than Nate. @LB7979: It's not just that he answered his own Headscratchers. He also posted inane, self-explanatory Headscratchers (such as "why doesn't Kidz Bop sing songs about drugs?"). -
Bounced...again... -
^^Ssshhh! He Who Must Not Be Named has an almost psychic resonance for when he's mentioned here! (/kidding... kind of) Anyway, the nameless one has a record of years, so I hope this guy tires quickly. -
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Bounced, reverted. We're working on a preventative measure. -
Honestly it seems like cutting or locking the page would be simplest if the vandalism is that obsessively focused... -
Has our vandal/troll focused solely on that page? Because it would be a shame to have to lock a page because of one asshole.
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4 Jul 19th, 2017 at 1:01PMFilmNot that it matters, but the article that leads me to ask is this one: The Three Stooges Punch Drunks If one is making a page for a work within a series of works, by the same creator or starring the same creators, is there a preference for putting it in the Recap namespace or the Film namespace? Or, I guess, Anime or Live-Action TV or what have you? My own instinct would be that a film should be under Film but I can't see anything wrong with a page like that as it is constructed.
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Well, the Three Stooges were originally a series for movie theaters. I would think that Film would be the place. -
The Recap/ namespace is usually used for the episodes of a TV series, animated or not. However, it has been used for other kind of series, like the volumes of a comic, the episodes of a Web Video show, etc. So yes, it does have some flexibility to it. Considering they are short films rather than full-length, and strongly linked together by the leads, I don't see this use as a problem. -
Recap.The Three Stooges is definitely a correct page, but the individual short films have an inconsistent namespace application. Given their role in theaters, I'm not exactly opposed to putting them all in Recap, but I am opposed to the inconsistency with the current situation. I favour the Film/ namespace. -
Personally I would favor Film as well but I'll go with consensus.
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4 Jul 19th, 2017 at 5:05PMWestern AnimationJust found JustForFun.Daring Do and it's got just about every subpage out there. I thought non-existent works were supposed to stay in their namespace... I know this is true for Darth Wiki, the other repository for non-existent works but I'm not sure about Just for Fun, so I figured I'd ask.
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There is a collection of books on Amazon titled "My Little Pony: The Adventures of Daring Do" by A.K. Yearling and G.M. Berrow (with 95 customer reviews). Weird that there's a Just for Fun/ page but not a Literature/ one... -
Probably because the Just for Fun page is made up of imagined stories for a Show Within a Show book series. Meanwhile The Daring Do Adventure Collection is an officially licensed and published take on the same series. -
Umm... if someone's using the JFF namespace to create articles for imaginary works, then those need to be cut and burned ASAP. Edit: Well, we do allow some things like that, such as Show Within a Show works like "The Ugly Barnacle". But if this is just a collection of random fan ideas with no internal or external reality, then they don't belong. -
^ As far as I understand, Daring Doo is a Show Within a Show (that was apparently later defictionalized).
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1 Jul 20th, 2017 at 5:05AMI want to know if Lycanites Mobs is safe to re-create. Thanks!
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1 Jul 19th, 2017 at 8:08PM
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You want Query Wishlist for this sort of request.
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9 Jul 17th, 2017 at 11:11AMOn the Multiform Balance page, Kuruni and I have been discussing how to classify a character (Kamen Rider Agito Storm form) and haven't been able to come to an agreement. Storm has high speed, low attack, but only average defense. I say that being fast but weaker in other areas makes it a Fragile Speedster, while Kuruni believes that average defense isn't "Fragile" enough and it's lack of attack makes it a Stone Wall. One thing important to note is that another form, Flame, also has claim to being a Stone Wall as it has genuinely high defenses. In any case, we need a tiebreaker.
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Bump. -
I vote Stone Wall, more accurate even though neither seem to fit perfectly -
I would say it doesn't seem to fit as either; if its defense isn't particularly high or low it's not a Stone Wall or a Fragile Speedster. -
I second Orbiting. Not every example of Multiform Balance has to fit into the speed / attack / defense scheme that many Competitive Balance tropes use. The first paragraph of the Multiform Balance description describes a werewolf with an in-between form that can't talk, but can still use weapons. Trying to shoehorn that into Fragile Speedster or Stone Wall would be nonsensical; not being able to talk is a disadvantage that fits nowhere in that scheme. I would just describe the advantages and disadvantages of each form in the entry text rather than potholing to a trope that doesn't quite fit. -
Doesn't sound like either one is a good fit. Average defense means he's not Fragile; but it also means that he's not a Wall. Not all characters have to fit in one of those classifications, remember. -
Well, Tropes Are Flexible, and I figure that if it's in the spirit of the trope then it's close enough. But I'm also a little concerned that the official stats, while useful, may not reflect reality. For instance, Agito's third basic form, Ground, is described as the Jack-of-All-Stats "Balance" form, but comparing its stats to Storm and Flame portrays it as a Glass Cannon with more attack and less defense than either. Overall, I'd put more weight on how a form is portrayed in the show than on numbers that are All There in the Manual, but, full disclosure, I haven't actually watched Agito. I can only make a guess based on how the "Speed" forms have been portrayed in the Kamen Rider series that I have seen. -
Yes, tropes are flexible, but if you flex them too much they break :) -
If you have to shoehorn a trope or example to make it fit, that's bending it beyond any flexibility expected. -
To be blunt, if we take how the form potrayed in show then Agito isn't really good at showing these forms as balanced. The way he used both Flame and Storm form are more of early Super Mode.
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1 Jul 19th, 2017 at 9:09PM
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You'll need Trope Finder.
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1 Jul 19th, 2017 at 9:09PMLive Action TV
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Three , right after each other. You want You Know That Show.
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1 Jul 19th, 2017 at 8:08PMI know it is a show that focuses around a young girl in white pajamas with verticle blue stripes. The stories took place at night, and in a Zoo. The animals were her friends. I distinctly remember an episode where the girl (or maybe a Zoo animal) was sleep walking on a ledge into a pool of water. This WAS a kids show. maybe aired on Nicelodeon. It was on TV, and I was born in 2002 so it probably aired somewhere around 2005. Maybe on Nickelodeon.
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You should ask this sor of thing in You Know That Show but you may be looking for 64 Zoo Lane
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1 Jul 19th, 2017 at 7:07PMI'm trying to find the name of an old TV show I think from the 70's I believe it wagon Friday nights. The series didn't last long. it was kind of on the order of the twilight zone or Night Gallery. I don't k now I think it was on ABC. Anyway in one particular episode (different episodes all the time) as best i can remember there was a little boy always dressed as a little girl. He might have lived with his grandparents. He thought he was a little girl until he saw a book with a picture of naked little boy in it. That's all i can remember. My memory is fading. Any help would be greatly appreciated It's been driving me nuts trying to think of it.
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For questions like this, try our You Know That Show page.
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1 Jul 19th, 2017 at 3:03PMLive Action TVHi I'm looking for a show that maybe came on TLC and men or women had to go inside the person's house they were trying to date and they had to remember specific things in the house and buy things that resembles the stuff they found while in the house. I hope this is detailed enough this is all I can remember. Can someone help me out please?
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Please ask in You Know That Show.
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5 Jul 18th, 2017 at 5:05PMThe description of Violence Is Disturbing mentions that it's a YMMV trope but the page is not tagged as such. How can this be resolved?
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[double post] -
The description probably was just using "YMMV" as the literal expression, not as in "YMMV the TV Tropes namespace". Of the 60 pages wicking to it, none of them list the Trope on YMMV pages (the 3 inbound links that do come from YMMV pages, are potholes, so wouldn't count either). Yeah, it's confusing that the expression is used in the description. Maybe change "This is YMMV" to "Your Mileage May Vary here"?
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Maybe that part can be rephrase. -
So, the phrase was revised in 2013 from Subjective Trope to YMMV, and it was labeled "Subjective Trope" from its time in TLP (presumably before we even had a page for YMMV). Thus, I agree with LB 7979 that the page probably meant the literal expression and not YMMV as we used it even in 2013. That said, I'm not sure if this is an audience reaction article or if this is an in-universe trope. I don't see why "Violence Is Disturbing" has to be YMMV. Some of the examples are definitely in-universe.Looking for a YMMV projects thread 'cause I thought we had one...?I guess the closest thing we have is a nearly dead thread called Converting some YMMV tropes to In Universe tropes (last post in June 2016).
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It would be PSOC in real life, or YMMV if an audience reaction to works because of different thresholds. In-universe currently makes the most sense.
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6 Apr 10th, 2017 at 5:05PMEditor dandan123 has rather serious grammar issues; I sent them a notifier back in December and their grammar hasn't noticeably improved. (Is there any IP overlap with dandan550? They were suspended for poor grammar in July 2015 but never showed up in the Edit Banned thread or the Get Help With English Here thread.)
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Similar usernames. Wonder why he did not come up in Edit Banned or get reported until now. -
Weirdly, dandan550 never appealed, but they did continue posting after their ban. This latest handle was created shortly before their last post on the forums, but well after the wiki suspension. Both accounts are from IPs in the Philippines, but as they are spread over a vast dynamic range, there's no certain way to establish a match. They have edited some of the same articles. I'm going to hard-bounce the old account and lock the new one to force them to talk. We shall see what happens. -
I don't think I'm going out on too much of a limb in speculating that dandan330 is a ban evading sock of dandan123 and/or dandan550. Only three edits so far (perhaps they've already been detected and bounced), all since the suspension of dandan123 and featuring the same atrocious grammar.
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No IP overlap, but the name and editing history are close enough to make a case of it. Bounced. -
Sorry for this act of ATT thread necromancy, but I'm fairly sure poipoi550 is another attempt at ban evasion by this editor. They edit several of the same pages and have the same poor grasp of English. (At the very least, it seems probable they're a ban-evading sock of tricksterpoi, who edited some of the same pages and was suspended for poor grammar in October of last year.)
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Got them, too. They're in one of those super-dynamic IP countries that makes it very hard to pin someone down.
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1 Jul 19th, 2017 at 12:12AMTNA has a very big problem of the page and the subpages troping the actual people at the company, and very negatively at that.
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1 Jul 19th, 2017 at 3:03AMFound two
new accounts making spam pages
There is a comment on this discussion page was made by a known vandal
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2 Jul 15th, 2017 at 12:12PMFilm
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It's more like They Changed It, Now It Sucks. -
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3 Jul 18th, 2017 at 1:01PMAnimeGood evening. If Brother-Sister Incest is almost never played directly in Harem Genre (for obvious reasons), but is very common in works, then can I add it to the page of this genre as a commonly used trope?
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What do you mean by "played directly"? Played straight? Because a trope can be present but played in a way other than straight (subverted, inverted, parodied...). If it's, say, parodied often in the genre, then you can list it on the genre's page saying it's often parodied and almost never played straight. -
Yes, I'm talking about this. In that case, should I make a note that this trope is almost never played straight from censorship considerations? I wanted to do so initially, but there are no explanations in the section of common tropes. -
Is it, though? Not Blood Siblings is played commonly, but Brother-Sister Incest doesn't pop up that much, as far as I know.
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1 Jul 18th, 2017 at 9:09PMWeb Originalbobg added an example of Critical Research Failure to YMMV.Death Battle, despite there being a comment saying not to add specific examples of it. They brought up a legitimate reason for their edit, but they did break a rule posted on the page, so I don't know if I should delete it or not.
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4 Jul 17th, 2017 at 8:08PMVin13ish seemingly has trouble with grammar and punctuation, like with this Old Shame entry they put on Trivia.Steven Universe; "Most of Crewniverse including Rebecca Sugar and Lamar Abrams regrets about Concrete and apologized for it after getting a backlash from the fans"
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Please use a grammar notifier first. -
Is that when you PM a troper and tell them they should work on their grammar? -
Yes. There is a notifier option when viewing a page's history. The notifiers are pre-written and provide tips and suggestions regarding the behavior in question. I have just sent them one such notifier. -
Thank you!
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2 Jul 18th, 2017 at 5:05PMDiscard Life Force Door TLP. It's already covered by Kill Enemies to Open.
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5 Jul 17th, 2017 at 11:11PMIsn't it weird that the URL for the 1st Iron Man movie (2008) is Film/IronMan1 instead of Film/IronMan2008? It was never called Iron Man "1". Iron Man 2 has Film/IronMan2 but that makes sense since that's the real title. The Avengers (2012) is in Film/TheAvengers2012, and AFAIK that's the correct way to name the URL.
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I know it was moved there to separate it from the hub page at Film.Iron Man, but I don't really get the '1' in the url, even if it doesn't show up in the title -
Yeah, that doesn't follow any of the usual conventions. -
Not true, it is, in fact used in a few cases for the first title of a series/franchise which also name it, to separate the work page of said title to the page for the whole franchise. Mostly for video games, though, like "VideoGame/HalfLife1", but other movies got this treatment, like "Film/XMen1" or "Film/SpiderMan1". Since the title, indeed, never had the "1" being part of it, the custom title then remove it when writing it on a page. You may consider it stretching a bit the Wiki Word function, but it works well for its purpose in all these cases. -
Most of the conventions here, as discussed a couple times over the past couple months, is year, author, arc (that comics discussion on Rebirth), or something like that. Including to prevent subspace collisions. Just because someone decided at some point to do a page a certain way before guidelines were discussed and defined, doesn't mean it's now the right way to do it. Especially with these multipart movie series that keep coming out these days, where the first is always "1" of that series, -
It's not as simple as "somebody just used it". There were no objections to it in the Franchise clean-up thread. There was no consensus either. Basically, it'd have to be a thing to really vote on instead. It has not been an issue, and things "evolve" at times goes on. My suggestion is a Wiki Talk thread about it. Once we get a consensus, we can inform the Franchise clean-up thread and move on. Not much use in arguing whether it's right or wrong here either. It was always used to prevent tons of confusion. There was little discussion on it in the thread proper. We just didn't really attempt to and just went with it cause it worked. Not the best solution to handle it, respectively, but that's what happened anyway.
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5 Jul 16th, 2017 at 11:11AM
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There is already a lock applied on the main Series page, the Characters - The Doctor page, and the YMMV page. Preemptive locks are already something we're not a fan of, so further locking will not be applied unless it's a proven need. -
Fair enough. Sorry for the bother. -
I only requested the preemptive locks because waiting for the official announcement would risk being stuck with a bad version of the page. I'm fully aware of what would have happened if I waited. -
To say that the BaseBreakingCharacter.Doctor Who page hasn't seen any flames, but a fair and neutral write-up — and because the initial lock was to prevent mass editing, messes, and misinformation — would it be appropriate to unlock the pages now? -
Yeah, I think we're good. Unlocked the three pages.
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4 Jul 17th, 2017 at 6:06PMI can't post on the forums. I'm on my smartphone, and when I click the post button, which should take me to the page where I type what I want to post, it starts to load, then stops. I have tried multiple times, on several different forums, as well as closing the tab, going back to the site, logging in again, and trying again. Nothing I have tried let's me finish loading the page, and I'm fairly certain this is a technical problem on TVT's end, since I've tried all the usual fixes(yes, even turning it off and on again. If it's something I could do, I've done it.) on my end. It's gotten even worse; two of the posts below are me updating, and the one reply, though it gave some good ideas, did not help me at all.
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Might be an ad. I've run into that a couple times. Also check how many tabs are open. Safari gets snippy with me at more than eight, and Chrome doesn't like more than 14-15. (I was curious, okay? :p ) -
I tried closing all my other tabs, but that didn't work. If it is an ad, how can I deal with that? -
An update: I tried installing other browsers, and it still won't work. I'm starting to think that it won't even work on my computer when I'm able to use it. -
The only way I've been able to deal with ads is to wait for them to cycle around to new ones. I use Chrome, so visiting sites I know normally kick up innocent, well-behaved ads (Big Fish, Amazon), usually helps. In Chrome app, you can clear the cache. I've only had to do that once. I haven't had to do it with a browser app -it crashes first- but when a game is giving me grief, even if the phone itself is behaving, I say, "Heck with it" and do a full reboot. (You're supposed to do that periodically anyway, so I don't have to think about doing it later.)
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2 Jul 18th, 2017 at 8:08AMI've been doing wick-checking for these tropes: I am uncertain how many of these are just: (example):
- Comic-Book Time: The characters barely age.
This work page is an example of:
could do with a bit more detail added on how they qualify. Anyone want to help me with this? It'll probably take a while!-
This seems like it could be a projects thread along the same vein as the That One Boss clean-up (where there are multiple related tropes in one clean-up effort). -
Remember: if you can't explain how it's an example, it's not an example.
