If there are that many candidates, I am inclined to think that there'd be a few too many "winners" to qualify it as a "lottery" in the Super Power Lottery sense.

Put them in Game Breaker, I'd say.

It would probably be safer to apply that particular trope for examples outside of the ability game mechanic. Granted, those abilities are fantastic to have, but I don't think Super Power Lottery would be an appropriate trope for them. A good example of a Super Power Lottery winner would be Mew, who has the ability to learn any Pokemon move.

@Larkman: Game Breaker is a YMMV trope, and while they're really good, they're also not really invincible.

No, keep it off the page.

I'd say more SPL should apply due to a combination of factors including ability, such as stats and movepool. For example I'd think Greninja counts — it not only has Protean, but has a huge movepool to abuse it with, the Speed to often get first strike so the player can anticipate what the opponent will do and change Greninja's type to resist it, and it has high Special Attack to put its movepool to use. "Prankster" on pokemon like Klefki and Sableye who learn a wealth of status moves to abuse it with and have good defensive typings to survive several turns would also possibly count.

I haven't added anything yet and you guys seem to be split on this. Could a mod chime in and help, please?

mods don't usually declare consensus. There's absolutely no consensus for the abilities to count as Super Power Lottery winners.

Just for the sake of it - the last line is supposed to be two separate entries, but it didn't come out that way.

I believe the rule is that an entry should stand on its own, so that if a reader reads only that entry, they get the full idea of how it relates to the work/character.

In your example, I'd be more inclined to go with the first option. It's a bit repetitive, but it prevents the sequence from getting broken up by later edits, such as another trope getting added in-between Only Sane Man and The Reliable One.

Yeah, don't split an example between two tropes. Explain each trope in its own example.

And don't use "is this": that's usually a sign of natter or ZCE.

Yes

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=1#2

What page is this? There's often a delay between approved examples being added to the work's YMMV page and the trope's subpages, so they usually won't show up there for a short while.

It's the Bleach YMMV page. I've ploughed through a few pages on the thread Ultimatum linked me to (thanks for that, btw) and I can see the character (Giselle) has been discussed, but (as far as I can see) the thread has decided to watch her for the moment and see.

I've reasked the question on that thread to find out what they're doing about the character.

I've put up the Broken Base entry and I'm fine to leave it at that. As for Demo Reel, nothing negative about it has been deleted?

It's that many of the negative opinions are paired with lines that state those people have to be wrong for not liking the show.

The Complaining about Shows You Don't Watch entry comes from Doug himself, what Lindsay said in the Audience-Alienating Premise is in her Pocahontas commentary, and the only complaints I see about people not liking it are the ones who made bigoted comments? If it's about the parodies I can prune them down?

It's the overall tone of that page.

I've toned down some of the wording. Is that better?

I got rid of it. That's just complaining. The trope can only be invoked when it's a response from a critic towards a work, not just a comment said of the work as if that's everybody's opinion.

If that's the case, then someone should add that to the description. While it does mention critics, nothing about it makes me think that it's a necessity.

^That's exactly the thing that threw me off. All the examples I saw involve critics; if that weren't the case people could just go ahead and use it as an excuse for Complaining About Shows You Don't Like.

Yeah. The examples are pretty much all mentioning critics, so it seems to be the case. Because as-is I don't see how someone using it to complain is technically misusing it.

YMMV also requires some sort of general consensus about it. This is clearly just one guy griping.

Huh? Who says YMMV needs "general consensus"?

And there is at least one non-critic example on the page itself about the Jaws movie.

On "general consensus": Most of the items in there in fact, or else we'd be to the roof with people using X or Y YMMV as a scapegoat for Complaining About Shows You Don't Like. You could potentially pull the "unlikeable cast" card on any work if its story doesn't interest a particular viewer, like it was the case in the Xenoblade entry I brought up.

It's one thing to say that what some people have called the best game of its genre is not as good as they say, but to say that the whole cast is unlikeable when you have a massive ammount of people that like the work is ridiculous.

Technically, we don't test YMMV items against "general consensus", mostly because there is no way to do so that would be worth the effort. Some exceptions exist (So Bad, It's Horrible and The Scrappy) but they are just that.

What's our definition of "critic"? Half of Youtube is people reviewing things.

Pretty much "people reviewing more than one work".

The entry should be at least edited to make it clear it's an opinion, not fact.

I think it's a fairly rare circumstance. Best I can figure is the Disgaea: Hour of Darkness example: character levels cap at 9,999, you can finish the game about level 100, so Absurdly High Level Cap. However, you can reincarnate that unit into a new level 1 unit that inherits some to all of those stats. So there are simply mountains of grinding and messing with the level cap which effectively makes the "stats cap" something more like 200,000 levels.

Also, I think you can have both between multiple systems. Again, the Disgaea example says the character levels are Absurdly Low, while the weapon skill levels are Absurdly High.

Wouldn't the Disgaea example still be an example of Absurdly High Level Cap, though? I can't imagine that you'd be likely to hit that 200,000 level "stats cap" in a typical playthrough. The level cap may seem very low compared to the stats cap, but if you can finish the game at level 100, they're both still absurdly high compared to what's expected of you.

Seems like it'd fit the bill.

Ditto.

Added it to the page with the following description

"Caius Ballad. He has some of the most powerful magic in the franchise, he's an immortal who cannot die, he can summon Bahamut, he can use a previously unknown summon method to merge with Bahamut, he's intended to be tragic and sympathetic, and is spoken of as a legendary hero who was only ever beaten once. His plan ultimately succeeds and he only dies because he wants it to happen, and in the next game he redeems himself by saving Yeul and going with her incarnations to watch over the Unseen Realm for eternity."

I was under the impression we'd done an example ban on the Mary Sue tropes.

well this is what's on the index

"No examples in any of the pages in this section, please. YMMV tabs and In-Universe Discussed Trope examples on the work pages are fine, however."

Looking to the edit story in Mary Sue Tropes, the "YMMV tabs on the work pages are fine, however" bit was added by Morgenthaler in 22 may. Any discussion about this?

Mary Sue and its subtropes was repeatedly put up for Flame Bait listing but never passed. Until it does, the YMMV rules apply i.e it's OK to list these tropes on YMMV tabs.

^^ I added that bit after a mod made that ruling in some ATT thread at the time, in case you want to know.

Well, your assertions are based upon the IMDB board and ... what?

See, this is the reason why I don't like people removing YMMV items for reasons other than getting facts wrong. The arguments seem always to rely on assumptions without much backing.

I'm not the one who invoked IMDB, the original editor did, and if you check it, there's not a broken base there.

My point is that it's not true that Alien 1 and 2 divide the fanbase, they are widely regarded as very good movies by fans and critics, the arguments are minor and cool, worthy but a bit inferior sequel or an even better sequel, (a la Godfather 1 vs 2) not a civil war by any stretch. (By contrast, 3, 4 and Prometheus get massive amounts of flak)

Hard (or tiresome) to disprove a negative, I guess.

If we follow the trope description, there's not an example here

"Almost every series has at least some internal conflict amongst its fanbase. In fact, a healthy series should have some polite dissent within its fanbase, as that creates a ground for respectful debate and thoughtful discussion. However, in many, if not most, cases, the amount of dissent is far above this level. "

OK, major reading failure on my part then.

Now, I am not going to assess which opinion is "right" or "wrong", since that is not the point of these pages and we don't have any way to gauge that. I'll instead note that the example writeup argues against its listing and warrant its removal on these grounds.

Speaking from personal, anecdotal experience, there are some people who dislike the fact that it's an Actionized Sequel and wish it were straight suspense/horror like the original. Most still think it's good for what it is, but just wish it didn't have the shift (so mild They Changed It So It Sucks... well, more like "They Changed It So Even If It's Good I Think It Could Have Been Better).

One edits the appropriate page, in this case FanficRecs.Rio, and adds the recommendations. Fanfic Recommendations gives the format.

Thank you. Is there any protocol in regards to making a page such as this?

No, just remember to index the page and follow the guidelines indicated on Fanfic Recommendations.

So basically they set up a source backing up their claims, then put an example up citing the source they created as "proof"? That sounds all kind of sketchy to me. (And stupid, to leave evidence that they're the ones that did it.)

I think that kind of thing should be deleted, but you might want to wait for a mod to say so.

The point of citations is to stop the ill-supported claims. Biased or no is not a consideration at all.

Perhaps the point of those blogs is to see if others share their views on the matter(s) in question?

But what it sounds like is the person setting up their own source for the claim. Making a claim and citing your own source for 'evidence' isn't supporting the claim at all, since the person can write their 'source' any way they want. The only exception was if they backed that up from other sources -and in that case, why not link to one of those in the first place?

Stuff like this is why we stay out of the opinion business in the articles. This entire scenario is of no interest if facts are what we are delivering as wittily as possible. Citing an opinion held elsewhere doesn't change the opinion from being an opinion.

Perhaps using the word three time in one sentence will emphasize that opinions are the problem.

As for them claiming that something is "offensive" ... just because there is some other jackass on the internet who agrees with a pet peeve frequently only means that there is more than one jackass on the internet. Which we knew. Not a useful edit.

Inbounds can take a long time. Search engine links aren't counted - someone has to link it from a forum post or blog or something. That's only been around for a few months so it's not that strange.

Yeah, really we're waiting on XKCD or Darths & Droids to link to every trope on the site to get the inbounds for them.

That is both bad, and probably true.... XD

We used to track which pages got the most search engine hits, but the list was depressingly dominated by people looking for porn.

In fairness, that's the internet in general.

Sure.

Rolled it back.

Stomping that. It needs to be cleaned up.

I took out the slogans. I would favour the trope list to be limited to the same self-presentation tropes that Barack Obama is limited to, as an aside.

Taking a look at the Memetic Psychopath and Memetic Mutation pages, which are both YMMV, I guess Memetic Troll must be YMMV as well.

The key phrase is the end of the first sentence: "the Memetic Troll is a character the fandom likes to depict as a Troll."

Yep, definitively YMMV.

Yeah: If it's something the fandom thinks, there's no room for doubt.

Here is the page to nominate tropes to the ymmv banner: {{http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=3tg6evewhfkzrkmbflgc97iv&page=58#1434}}

Messaged the first. The second seems to be complaining about Google indexing - I'll handle it in the YKTTW Crash Rescue thread.

Suspendered.

I don't see anything wrong with removing those links. After all, that comic's page specifically states, "Because the site has a SFW "Do you really want to see this content?" page, we allow links to the site, but do not link directly to NSFW comics."

Yeah, removed the links.

Greetings,

1. If the only thing that you change is the quality (e.g by changing a heavily pixelated image to a non-pixelated version of the same image), it's a free action. Otherwise, Image Picking is recommended.
2. DMOS ought to be left alone. As for SBIH, if the work cited is a parody and someone misses its point, then the work probably will have a sufficient genuine audience to warrant its delisting.

"1. If a picture is poor and not selected by Image Pickin', can I replace it? Or should I get consenses first?"

Absolutely you can replace it. But in a wiki, the most relevant question is not "can I do this?", it is "will this be undone?" Going through IP will dramatically increase the chance that your change will "stick". Also that forum is pretty good at finding a good page image, something even better than what you have in mind might be suggested.

Well I made a image picking thread. Its for Crush Blush

I don't see a lot of British terms but several articles/trope titles use Commonwealth Spelling but the British aren't the only people who use it though (I use it myself). Tvtropes doesn't have British roots as far as I know and the majority of tropers aren't British. I don't think there's that many British works here; there's way more American works here than British.

Maybe through pure coincidence, the site happens to trope British works more than you'd expect from a random average.

I don't think that's the case, Sept; you can pretty much use the site as a barometer for what British shows are doing well over seas.

There are plenty of British shows which are either not on here at all or just have barely enough tropes to make a page.

I suspect a form of confirmation bias here; I don't notice a disproportionate representation of British shows except for the ones that have become very popular in the U.S.

This is a U.S.-based website and has a high proportion of American members. We welcome our cousins from across the pond, of course, even though they do spell things funny. They have a great, if odd, sense of humor, but they eat weird foods.

Also, we continental Europeans learn British English at school. We might take a pick-and-mix approach to the language later in life, but most of the spelling we're taught usually sticks.

British English is also the dialect often taught in places like Hong Kong, Singapore, and Japan. (Based on admittedly limited personal knowledge.) That would increase the frequency of edits made in British English. Aussies also spell in British English, although they have their own forms and slang. (Which is grand fun.)

It's awesome, even if the Brits will insist on calling fries 'chips'. :p ;)

Then there's the strange Americans who take a preference to the Commonwealth style of spelling, such as me. (-ou- makes more sense than -o- in many words) I won't give up my -zed-s, though.

Don't forget that we have a few Canadian tropers. You guys have your own weird spelling that looks mostly British.

What Virodhi said, though I'm not European by any stretch of the word. [[Dissimile And I was taught American spelling at school by British teachers.]]

Suspended.

bounced

Looking at the influx of unindexed pages, I think posting a general notice about indexing in a visible area of the wiki might be a good idea.

I'll call Freezair in for a chat. Sheesh.

Not an Indonesian, but that page strikes me as mixing fiction and history a bit too much in that section. That paragraph is not necessary in my mind.

The guy is also edit warring with Meem in UsefulNotes.Islam, although it looks like it's still minor.

Also, Meem is having other problem with Natter and Justifying Edit.

Having problems with natter and justifying edits is one thing.

But... this guy has been sending me PM saying that 'I sound like a jerk for not revealing the truth.' And once he knew I'm a Batavian (Actually I'm born in Jakarta), he started sending me PM's further, sounding like he's extremely angry... that he wanted the world knew that Javanese are doing colonization on the archipelago. It's like he's angry about those Indonesian history being dominated with the Javanese kingdoms doing a conquering-spree, saying that Indonesia is built upon lies (we already got enough shits already over here in Indonesia, so gimme a break) and decided to use TV Tropes for his start of 'Rebellion'.

I dunno about you guys, but... This guy is starting to creep me out, and I say this as a fellow Indonesian. Mods can check other's PM, right? If you can, mind if you check and decide what's the best course?

Great. Using This Very Wiki as a platform for his agenda? This has gone far enough! >:(

Suspended for Misplaced Nationalism.

I'm not sure if he really wants a rebellion or something, but from the tone of his words, someone's pissed about how the past of Indonesia is... more about Java kingdom conquest spree, it's not their fault Majapahit got Gajah Mada and rose as a superpower back in the days...

Just... handle with care. Call him for something... speak nicely first. We don't want to condemn the wrong person, right?

EDIT: ... Oh. Wait. I'm ninja'd. Well, I hope things can be solved out for the best in that one topic about Suspended account.

This new account readded the contested paragraph. Methinks ban-evading sockpuppet ahoy.

It is. Why won't people talk to us? Just talk, not run around and be all defiant?

Because he chose to die with honor rather than surrender. Banzai!

...or something.

I am guessing that some people are too proud to want to beg for their privileges back in Edit Banned.

Or they think that we think they're gone, and don't think the same behavior will attract attention because, hey, they're using a different name! It's a very peculiar type of thinking, often found in those who haven't emotionally matured yet.

I wouldn't add it at all. Justifying Edit, and it's meant to be a fantasy land. You can't suddenly talk about historical accuracy when there's talking snowmen.

Got it.

That wouldn't just come across as natter, it IS natter.

Just remember, if you disagree with something on YMMV, that's why it's YMMV.

FYI, Solaris IS right but I don't know how that would go on the page with starting a flamewar

Don't you mean "without"?

Shoboni, the problem is there are as many arguments against that reasoning as there are for it. And it's subjective who is "more" right. (For instance, I happen to come down on the other side of the argument, in that it IS historically accurate to have a some people of color in crowd scenes, even if they aren't main characters). Hence, again, why this is YMMV.

Yes, I meant without.

colour

Please don't start a British vs. American English argument.

Please.

Note that the original bit you want to add to is itself natter, which by its nature invites yet more natter, which the OP here demonstrates.

I would just delete that too but I am sketchy on the rules for YMMV pages.

Natter doesn't belong on any tab, main, YMMV or otherwise.

AFAIK, the only place it's allow is Headscratcher, and that's only second bullet.

They are substantially different and should be separated. A Catch Phrase can be a Running Gag, and vice versa, but they should not be listed together.

No overlap.

Ah kay, sorry about that.

If he keeps edit warring for his opinion, let us know.

Haven't seen that happen yet, but will do. Thanks.

No, just put it in the YMMV tab.

For reference. I thought it was a joke-y post but with that other post...

Suspended for rudeness in discussion posts.

In fact, the whole query (started by the offender) is just complaining ("Who here thinks FE 13 is shovelware disguised as a AAA game?"). Shouldn't it be deleted?

I'll delete it pending an appearance in Edit Banned.

I don't think the software in YKTTW can handle non-standard characters too well (I get problems with ¬'s).

I try to speed type and it only works once every 20 seconds for a few moments.

Have you had trouble on any other sites? Honestly, I'd think that would be a problem with your browser.

No it's only here I have issues with typing.

Possibly one of the ads is doing something that slows your browser down?

Yeah it was the ads... started an new edit session and it was working fine.

Rolled them back.

Probably Data Vampires but I'll have to suspend as a matter of course.

Suspended.

Notified the YKTTW Crash Rescue thread.

Thanks. I knew there was somewhere else this was supposed to go, but couldn't remember where.

Work. If the page solely talks about the creator with no work tropes, put it under Creator/ and Creator.

Let's Plays are works. If they end up being significantly about their creator, then we just need to make sure that they obey the rules for creator pages, most specifically no tropes about the real person. Their "in-game" persona is fine, however.

Fridge.Robocop. Ask for an unlock here.

Done.

How is it possible? It was prolly cut back when cutting a page automatically locked it.

The most recent movie's Fridge should go on Fridge.Robocop2014

Problem solved. Thanks.

Well, facts are facts and are thereby okay. However, things which are "commonly associated" are not facts. By what evidence is "commonly" measured?

"Most people...", "fans", etc.. Are not sources of facts. They are opinions being given false support by the way they are written.

Well eh, suppose there is a page for the science of deduction - I did not check - do you suppose the article would referene Sherlock Holmes?

I know that articles about music genres or about certain decades give a lot of specifics (both might for example mention Elvis) but that may not be the same of course.

The Sherlock Holmes example certainly wouldn't be a problem.

Is there something specific you're thinking about adding to a page? Or something you've seen on a particular page that you're questioning?

The vagueness of the question makes it difficult to answer. What do you mean?

Because it was a) being readded by Nate's socks and b) because we don't list audience opinions on the main article. These go in reviews or the YMMV tab.

I haven't, but you should probably bring it up in this thread, which discusses wiki-related security issues. Less likely to get lost in the general ATT traffic that way.

If you don't have them already, get Malwarebytes and Spybot. Even the free basic versions are good at digging out that kind of crap and toasting it.

Nah, just copy the examples over and discard it. I have done a similar YKTTW in the past.

Generally, we don't mind redlinking articles that might someday exist, as it encourages them to be created.

I understand, but the quantities are so vast that it's downright disruptive. We're talking hundreds of redlinks in total.

The only issue is that the indexing mechanism doesn't work properly if a page is added to an index before the page is actually created.

Kudos to him, his wicks are also namespaced, so if somebody does make the page they should be where they belong.

Please read Red Link: they're doing it right.

Uh, yeah, it has been brought up here.

okey dokey

Greetings, valeofthehowl.

While I can't help you actually creating the page as I don't have time for it, you can take the advice on How to Create a Works Page and start by editing on Webcomic.The Great Suitor and Furry Webcomics as an index page to put the page up.

Thank you! I'll read the instructions and try to get it done!

Not that I know, but please use Lost and Found for these questions.

Hulk?

SMASH.

Acoustic License.

Going to do that, although some seem to be older than his edit.

Looking at his edits, it seems he's been changing '"thrills" list' to '100 Years...100 Thrills' in at least some cases, rather than outright adding the rankings list.

Regardless, all of those should be purged.

Another suspect troper: BondGirl.

AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies seems to be at the root of this particular problem. What should we do with that article? I say it should be deleted or moved to Trivia. It's not a trope, certainly, and its value as an index is suspect.

I would consider moving that to UsefulNotes/.

If the Roger Ebert Great Movies List and The 50 Greatest Cartoons can have indexes, why can't AFI lists? Also, I successfully advised Bond Girl against adding any more references to these lists on movies' pages.

We are talking about people listing these on work description pages. Not quite the same thing as having indexes. Plus, these pages can get their indexes removed as well.

Suspended.

So is Osama bin Laden, George W. Bush, Muammar Gaddafi, I would support a look over the page or move to useful notes but any particular reason why this is controversial and not others?

They are too. I just happened to stumble upon this particular one.

The best answer I can give is that they are considered prominent faces not just in history but the media as well. Is it controversial to say Bush had a lower approval rating than The Boss? Or Bin Laden was a death worshipper? Or Gaddafi supported rape? Sure it is. And? Should we lie about these things? Should we cover them up? Not list how they appear in fiction? That would be going against our mission statement.

Er, strictly speaking, the only part of that that has to do with our mission statement is the "list how they appear in fiction" part.

Funny House Of Saddam isn't even mentioned. Most of the tropes could be transplanted there.

First, the correct page is UsefulNotes.Saddam Hussein. The reason Main.Saddam Hussein is still around is because the cutlist has a backlog.

Second, the "Real Life people aren't troped" policy is being implemented only recently. I would favour removing that section.

bounced

Especially the most recent edits - I'll do some minor cleaning.

Nuke them from orbit and lock it down.

(Disclaimer: not a mod of any sort.)

Locked and added to Locked Pages.

Took a look out of curiosity and you may need to do a fix on the formatting it shows up as Creator/MSNBC rather than MSNBC

Bah, thanks.

Also, the Fox News Channel link at the MSNBC example doesn't have the proper namespace, which is Creator/

Seriously?

What needs fixing?

... It seems to have been fixed, but until a few minutes ago, the title displayed on its page as Vetinari Jo B Security.

There was nothing wrong with the page. That's just The Problem with Pen Island. Vetinari Jo B Security is the same as Vetinari Job Security .

That happens all the time when a page is capitalized differently to how you're used to it.

Yandere, for example, could be shown as Yan Dere, Yan De Re, or even Ya Nd Ere, yet it's still Yandere.

weird stuff happens if you login with unusual capitalization. Don't do it.

It's how Google mess with us, it usually show search result with weird capitalization.

I guess Google Bot think it's funny.