Ask The Tropers
Have a question about tropes, the content, or how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help. If you're looking for a trope, head over to Trope Finder. If you want to propose a new trope, pitch it to the masses at You Know, That Thing Where
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1 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 7:07PMHi, all. I was browsing through the entry for the film Passengers (2016) and saw a factual mistake: As written: Jim stands in a tube through which the contents of a malfunctioning fusion reactor are being vented, almost frying his spacesuit, but he doesn't appear to suffer from radiation poisoning, just as Aurora stands in the control room of said reactor (the shielded window of which is cracking) and she doesn't get radiation poisoning either. The problem is that a fusion reactor doesn't produce ionizing radiation, at least not in any appreciable form. It does produce neutron radiation, but "radiation poisoning" - itself an incorrect term - refers to damage caused by alpha, beta, and gamma radiation. So the entry is factually incorrect as it currently stands. It would be correct, however, to point out that sitting in what amounts to a neutron shotgun doesn't seem to wreck Jim's day, either, and that little locker door is unlikely to have prevented his demise. (In the interests of full disclosure, I could go into all the science involved, but in the interests of brevity, I'll just say for now that the only ionizing radiation involved is induced radioactivity through neutron bombardment, but that has nothing to do with the plasma, only the reactor vessel and only over time.) And it's also fair to point out the thermal effect of standing in a jet of plasma, which "frying in his spacesuit" is a pretty apt description. Thus, the issue is only with the "radiation poisoning" part. So, I don't want to just delete the entry because it's (as far as I know) not permitted to do so, and it's also not exactly polite, but correcting it essentially means erasing it anyway and replacing it with the correct information. So I thought it best to check with the folks who have been here longer and better know the operation of the wiki. Guidance is deeply appreciated.
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First it is fully permitted to remove an incorrect entry, however it is considered better to fix it rather than remove it. So if it would be more correct to say "suffers damage from neutron radiation" instead of "suffers from radiation poisoning" feel free to make that change. Assuming it is not part of an edit war. Once an entry has 3 back and forth revisions you are hitting edit war territory and mods start banning. Repair, Don't Respond and Edit War are good reading when it comes to making changes to other peoples entries.
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4 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 3:03PMFrom DarknessInducedAudienceApathy.Video Games:
- Overwatch suffers from a variant of this effect. Most of the characters are genuinely good, likable people, and the story places a lot of emphasis on the importance of hope and heroism in a troubled world. But if you set all that aside and examine the story for what it actually is, you'll find something far more grim than the bright colors and fun characters would suggest. The game needed its own Woobie page before it was even six months old. Many of the heroes are defined by the ways in which they’ve failed, and most of them have made no progress toward their goals, and not for lack of trying, either. The villains are likewise not entirely unsympathetic, but they're also directly and unrepentantly responsible for a lot of the world's problems, and they're not doing anything to helpnote . The crux of the problem is that the story initiated itself under pretty dire circumstances, with the titular organization in ruins while its enemies remain at large. The plot could be summarized as "Talon enacts its agenda, and Overwatch rises from its ashes to defend the world", but the glacial rate of progression means the lore has stalled in the "Talon enacts its agenda" stage, leaving the main conflict to become increasingly lopsided as the heroes continue to struggle with no appreciable payoff while some of their most noteworthy accomplishments are outright undone by later developments. Keeping the torch lit during dark times is one of the narrative's core themes, but when the darkness starts eating the torch, it's easy to feel like you're just being strung along.
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I go with cutting. -
Cut. Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy gets misused frequently. -
Does Overwatch even have enough darkness to induce apathy? It's generally idealistic in tone and several characters are sympathetic, as even the entry states there are good, likeable characters -
Yeah cut
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9 Apr 21st, 2018 at 1:01PMManga.Sailor Moon and Anime.Sailor Moon direct to the same page. However, wouldn't it be more fitting to make them into their own pages? There's already a Franchise.Sailor Moon after all. The anime and manga have a lot of differences (thus why Anime.Sailor Moon Crystal exists).
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Manga.Yu Gi Oh and Anime.Yu Gi Oh do that. I say go for it! -
Since there are multiple Sailor Moon anime, Anime.Sailor Moon should redirect to the Franchise page. -
Or it can be just about the first anime series. The other one has its own name, Sailor Moon Crystal. -
Yu-Gi-Oh also has an example like that, with the Toei anime getting its own page. -
And on the second series page, the first paragraph says that Anime.Yu Gi Oh is incorrect, it should be at Anime.Yu Gi Oh Duel Monsters. -
4000 wicks is a lot of work, but at least a lot of people already use Anime.Sailor Moon, -
Up x2 I think the policy is 'go by how it's dubbed' where the anime is just called YGO. -
Nope, no policy with respect to Dubs Vs Subs. The page says the title is Yu-Gi-Oh: Duel Monsters. Either this is accurate and the page should be moved, or it is inaccurate, and the statement needs to be removed. -
So, yes to a split? Anime.Sailor Moon - 90s anime tropes Manga.Sailor Moon - Manga tropes Anime.Sailor Moon Crystal - Crystal tropes Right?
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0 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 5:05PMRecently, an example that starts with the following was added to Principles Zealot:
- The Land of Dreams residents of the The Dreamstone, though blatantly depicted as the heroes of the show, really verge as this, especially in earlier episodes.
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1 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 4:04PMWestern AnimationSo this upcoming PBS Kids show called Luna Around the World has been renamed to Let's Go Luna!, https://www.sgptv.org/programs/PBS-Kids-lets-go-luna/
How do I redirect it?
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0 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 4:04PMShould UsefulNotes.Fighting Game be an index? 'Cause if so, it's gotta be cleaned up. Its indexing is mixing works and tropes together, and also spawning two indexes at the same time, due to having the indexing type, and index boxes in its code. As seen in VideoGame.Guilty Gear.
Split off Creators, Players, and other Notables? -
2 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 1:01PMRegarding the Author Existence Failure trope, would it apply to creators and actors, or just creators?
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Actors are a type of Creators . -
yes to actors
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1 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 3:03PMLive Action TVThis has been torturing me for over 20 years. I have a vague recollection of an early to mid 80s television show or movie in which a woman is reliving traumatic moments from her past during a car ride in a violent rain storm. I have a faint idea this was from an anthology program like Tales From The Darkside or the 80s version of the Twilight Zone but I've not been able to find anything. Any ideas?
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You want to ask that question in You Know That Show
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2 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 12:12PMThe wording on the second entry on Alternate Character Interpretation in YMMV.Darling In The Franxx seems like it's treating it as a Broken Base.
- For that matter, Hiro's relationship with Zero Two in general is questioned. Some look at it and see a pure, unconditional love that Hiro tries to weather in order to make others see how Zero Two isn't as monstrous. Others see it as a mutually toxic relationship, with Hiro being Zero Two's Love Martyr and excusing her actions because of his love for her.
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Other than the "For that matter" Word Cruft, it seems correct to me. Some people see the character one way, and other people see the character another way. -
Ok. I can get rid for that matter.
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33 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 2:02PMUser Blazing Trolls is overtly trying to bias the Persona 3 page. He has insisted on an edit war. When I attempted to discuss the topic with him, he refused to reason. Instead, he ignored my points and continuously lied about the game's content to support his point of view. He uses circular arguments, red herrings, and is attempting to paint me as biased simply because of my edit history (which is interesting, given his http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=blazingtrolls). This is a side-account that I use so that my main isn't infested with ship wars.
He repeatedly changed the page without waiting for a resolution and did not initially bring the topic up for discussion. He originally edited the page to say a random background character who is a fan favorite was a canon love interest and has since been hostile and uncooperative in my attempts to reason with him, accusing me of vandalism for no apparent reason. (Edit: If you read his comment below, he claims nothing in his edit history suggests bias...despite his aforementioned insistence that a fan-favorite background character is a canon love interest. That's just one of many of his false claims that he refuses to explain.)
Additionally, he accuses me of removing detail, but this is because I found the details to be inaccurate and biased and thought the shortened version was more accurate. I'd be happy to explain my reasoning to anyone who is interested. While I do admit that I removed a YMMV detail, I must apologize for that as I did not realize that it was against the rules. With the rest of this, however, Blazing Trolls has been dishonest and unreasonable.
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Ok 1) basically everything you said here is a lie 2) I suggested having a discussion but you reverted the page anyway. Nevermind all your other edits which you had no reason for doing. 3) Ive tried to reasonable with you however the hostility was from yourside. To making false claims about me to telling me to screw off. As for my “edits†I reverted you’re edits once. Then I tried to have a discussion which you refuse to have. The only one who lied is you. Also unlike yours nothing in my history indicates a bias. -
It was me who first contacted you, after you reverted my edits the second time. I refuse to communicate further with you because I'm tired of wasting my time when you refuse to listen. -
You contacted me the first time I reverted your edits. Therefore I decided to take it to discussion, however you reverted it anyway. I fuse to argue with you here, as Ive made my case in a ask below. -
Can you explain what the game content you're edit warring about is? -
Seems to me like both you guys are causing trouble. I'll let the mods speak on this one. -
Lalalei 2001 I left the pages for content below in my my ask. However here they are http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Characters.Persona3SEES and http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Characters.Persona3SocialLinksAndNPCs
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Of course. The game Persona 3 has dating sim elements; however, the Main Character still has an implied love interest so to speak. One of the girls is given multiple scenes with him to suggest they have a connection. The game ends with the Main Character dying in her lap. This has been widely accepted on the "Implied Love Interest" page. When I added it to the Persona 3 Characters page, others responded by expanding on my edit. Blazing Trolls, however, removed my edit, and after insisting that a different background character was the "true" love interest, he backtracked into arguing that multiple characters get the same treatment and thus none should be listed. I tried to convince him that this was untrue, but he was unreasonable and continuously changed the page while we were discussing it. -
I'm not really sure why you think I'm causing trouble, honestly. I made an edit that has evidently been missing from the page and attempted to discuss the topic when I noticed that Blazing Trolls was removing it. He on the other hand didn't initially bring the subject up for debate. -
Technically, both of you are Edit Warring. It is delete->add->re-delete->re-add->re-delete between both of you. Additionally, the discussion page has both of you being overly caustic toward one another; you're not being civil, nor have you waited for additional opinions and thoughts from other tropers.
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Again that’s not acurate. I stated that there was no indication that the character you listed was any more a Implied Love Interest than other characters. I then proved examples romatic moments with other characters. -
^ As I said, they're both causing trouble, but neither wants to own up. -
The reason I kept editing it back was because I felt it was his responsibility to prove that my edits were wrong and that the page should stay as is. Otherwise, the situation was biased in his favor as he could just stop replying. Also, I would have been happy to get the imput of others, but I didn't know this page existed until I got frustrated and looked up how to report a user. -
How exactly am I causing trouble? I made an edit which had been accepted on another page for a long while. I defended it when it was repeatedly deleted. -
^ Its doesn't matter who's right. The fact is both you guys are edit warring, and that violates policy. -
@Chaotic Queen: In which case, both need a tap on the shoulder. -
So then it's ok for someone to revert someone's edit and then just...not say anything about it? Doesn't that make it extremely biased towards the reverter? Blazing Trolls should have messaged me if he had an issue with the edit I made. -
Chaotic Queen I aknowledge my fault in the conflict. It takes two two dance. However I dont think my reasoning is wrong either.I only reverted Implied Love Interest once, after I decided to take it to discussion with -
@jeoshmo: when someone reverts your edit with no reason, you take it to discussion. If they do not reply either on the discussion page or via PM, take it here and report them. Bookmark the page in question. Undoing the revert is Edit War territory. @Blazing Trolls: It doesn't change the fact you've acted rashly and continued a hostile discussion. You also contributed to the edit war. -
Joeshmo, when someone reverts your edit, you bring it here first and let the mods handle it. Blazing Trolls, like I said, it doesn't matter who's right. That's for the mods to decide. -
EDIT: Double post. -
Alright, fine by me. I didn't know that was the protocol and only edit warred because I didn't want him just ignoring me and having the edit stay. Which I figured he could do since he never sent a message to begin with. I hate edit wars, they're a huge waste of time. -
I had no intention of ignoring you. Also I left my reasons in my edits. Again I aknowlage my fault in the dispute, which is why I came here after the reverted again. -
Yes, but you didn't send me a message about the edits, which you should have done. And you say now that you wouldn't have ignored me, but the way you handled it made it seem to me as if you were trying to sneak the edit without anyone noticing. -
You dont normally PM some one for edits. You leave it in edit reasons which I did. Note: is anyone having issue with editing? Every time I edit a ask, I keep winding up with symbols. -
I'd imagine that's not the same when the edit in question was made mere hours earlier. -
I didn’t even pay attention to the time you made the edit. However I have never had to PM another person for a edit. I usually leave a reason for edit and usually we talk from there. -
Well, in the future, I'd suggest messaging someone if you want to change their edit if the edit was recent. I've had a few people do that with me and the result was much better. -
I would like to report both joeshmo and Blazing Trolls for violating our Dont Be A Dick rule. -
^ I contacted a mod already. Hopefully he sees this, but it is a weekend. -
Bans issued. -
I’m not sure it was that bad. We obviously didn’t agree but it’s not like there was name calling. We definatly need a tap for edit warring though. I still believe my edits to be justified, but I’ll let the mods decide and accept my punishment. -
I’m not sure it was that bad. We obviously didn’t agree but it’s not like there was name calling. We definatly need a tap for edit warring though. I still believe my edits to be justified, but I’ll let the mods decide and accept my punishment. -
^^^ Thanks. This was getting ugly.
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2 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 1:01PMRaining Metal keeps on deleting changes to the Xenoblade Chronicles 2 YMMV Page I make, even though they are valid. It is in response to one character that he insists is terrible. Most of the posts that have made are valid, but he insists on deleting what I submit.
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Technically, both of you have already Edit Warred. -
Maybe, but I am trying to be more open minded, while he is insisting that he is the only one right.
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0 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 2:02PMI want to add more examples for Shoutouts for the page Operation: Turnabout, and it might become so big it requires its own page (emphasis on might). Can I do this? P.S. Also need help in getting others to add shoutouts that I have missed.
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0 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 12:12PMTroper Art199 has several bad habits, of which the most striking is deleting examples with no or vacuous edit reasons. S/he gave no reasons for deleting examples on Demon of Human Origin and here, and on Awful Truth deleted a whole slew of examples with the edit reason "Updated the page."
Other vices of them are parabombing and clutter that violates Repair, Don't Respond, "de-improving" examples by making changes that seem unnecessary or unclear (such as changing "pure evil"into "a huge bitch", or changing "idea" into "idea/belief"), and generally sloppy editing which leaves grammatical errors or inserts random letters.
The edit history is here. I was going to message them but I think Awful Truth needs a mod revert anyway.
Edit: I realize most of the edit history is rather old, so most of it has already been fixed or overwritten.
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0 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 12:12PMI notice some curious edits made by them on Persona 3 characters page: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Characters.Persona3SocialLinksAndNPCs and http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Characters.Persona3SEES.
In the edits they tend to delete other cases of love interests and seemingly promote their own preferred case. I’ve noticed they’ve done this in Implied Love Interest and Ship-to-Ship Combat before, so I decided to try to have a discussion with them. They’ve been hostile the whole time and have been making false claims about me in edit reasoning.
Among other issues, they also removed more detailed edits and create less detailed ones. While on other occasions they removed tropes all together for no reason, even on YMMV. The didn’t say there reasoning for this when I asked. I tried to have a disscusion, but they keep reverting the page. So i thought it best to come here before reverting their edits back, because they obviously don’t want to listen.
Here is their edit history: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=joeshmo
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0 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 11:11AMVideogameUser Blazing Trolls is overtly trying to bias the Persona 3 page. He has insisted on an edit war. When I attempted to discuss the topic with him, he refused to reason. Instead, he ignored my points and continuously lied about the game's content to support his point of view.
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1 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 8:08AMFilm.Vice Versa has 4 versions. Only one has a page. We don't rename until we make more pages? 'Cause there's the 1916, 1937, and 1948 versions, and we only have a page for the 1988 version.
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3 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 9:09AMPlanning to split Film.Sabrina into its remake and original. 1954 and 1995. Presuming there's no objections? ... The remake has around 21 distinct tropes. This should be the last such discussion for a while? At least from me? There aren't too many like that?
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No objection, no. Just don't forget to split the subpages too, and to cutlist the old ones once they're done. And to turn the Film/ page into a redirect to Main.Sabrina, which is already a disambiguation. -
Works Pages Are a Free Launch, so feel free to split as many works onto their own pages as you like. -
durn double-posting
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1 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 5:05AM
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There is currently a TLP being discussed that would cover this: Administrivia/No Played With Examples, Please!
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6 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 8:08AMFor some reason the General Skyrim thread has been deleted as seen here
Just wondering what led to this,seems a little odd
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Because now there's a general Elder Scrolls thread, making the Skyrim thread obsolete. -
Umm what? I don't see how that would mean deleting that thread in particular is needed -
It's the same reason there's no thread for Dark Souls 2 or 3, because just the regular Dark Souls thread can be used to discuss all three games. Likewise, the general Elder Scrolls thread can be used to discuss all six Elder Scrolls games as opposed to just Skyrim. -
Be nice if they gave us a heads up,just saying -
That was a straight up mistake. -
Ah,that explains things,thank you
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6 Apr 21st, 2018 at 10:10AMWeb OriginalPerpetualJellyfish made an edit on YMMV.Death Battle saying that the way one character died was meant to make their fans angry. MasterHero removed their edit because it was biased. PerpetualJellyfish went back and readded it, added more nattery edits, and removed parts of the page that tried to give a more neutral stance on the fight's outcome, with this edit reason:
A lot of inobjective view for a Wiki type site. Detractor has a negative meaning. Defending your opinion does not make you a hypocrite. The dislike against superman is way too far from prooved Self proclaimmed fans ( and dragon balll has a lot of them). Goku's death was obviously humiliating and disrespectful one, obviously done solely to piss of db fans
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Ugh. Hopefully we won't need to PRLC yet another DB related page. -
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Death Battle: Goku vs. Superman... Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. -
Sent a natterfy to Perpetual Jellyfish. -
Perpetualjellyfish's only edits have been on Death Battle pages. Should we check to see if they're another user's puppet? -
^ No IP matches.
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3 Apr 21st, 2018 at 11:11AMTurn Film.Freaky Friday into a disambig for original and remakes? Maybe just redirect to Main.Freaky Friday. 'Cause it's holding that 1976 Original and the 1995 remake.
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Sure, why not...move the Jodie Foster movie to Freaky Friday (1976). -
There's already another film page with a disambiguated title — Film.Freaky Friday 2003 — and the rule is that when one has been disambiguated, all should be disambiguated. So the content of Film.Freaky Friday should be moved to Film.Freaky Friday 1976 and Film.Freaky Friday 1995. Once that's done, Film.Freaky Friday should be redirected to the disambiguation page at Main.Freaky Friday, which should be updated to include the new film pages. When there's already a disambiguation page covering multiple namespaces, we don't create a separate one just for one namespace. -
You will, of course, also have to update all the links—"Freaky Friday" Flip, Jodie Foster, etc—to the new page for the 1976 movie.
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4 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 1:01AM
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Crowding where? -
They probably mean their profile image gallery. I guess they could mean things they submitted to the image list.
Either way I don't think you can delete things.
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^ You can delete profile images, but you have to do it through the forums. -
After a bit of searching you need to go to tvtropes.org/pmwiki/forumite_icon_gallery.php?fortroper=yourtropernamehere to remove images from your avatar gallery. Edit to add: However, now that I notice that they don't have an avatar that almost certainly means they want to purge their uploads off the image list, which the above steps won't help with.
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4 Apr 21st, 2018 at 10:10AM
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See Pothole and Text Formatting Rules. But I'd be cautious using these for real life examples, especially towards such a trope. -
Don't do it. A good chunk of the edits I do are zapping edits from people who think No Real Life Examples, Please! doesn't apply to potholes. -
Never mind then -
What page were you even going to add to, if you don't mind my asking?
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1 Apr 22nd, 2018 at 2:02AM
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Ambiguous Gender is the type of trope that can't be played with - either it's there or not. What you're describing falls better under Gender Reveal, especially if the character is perceived as being androgynous at first.
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4 Apr 21st, 2018 at 10:10AMmarciabradypink78 keeps adding either trivial details to pages, such as a huge Disney Princess edit... " It is developed by MicroProse for Disney Interactive Studios and is compatible with current IBM/Lenovo, Dell, HP and Apple computers. A OEM version is packaged with IBM/Lenovo desktop and laptop computers (as a reinstallation DVD) if anything goes wrong with Windows (Blue Screen of Death, Viruses, Adware, Spyware, Malware, etc)." ...or in Lady Lovely Locks' case, outright lies. "Disney is currently rebooting the whole cartoon. It might debut on Disney XD next year. The intellectual property is often scheduled for ownership to Saban Capital Group (in which they acquired the trademark from AGC). The rebooted animated series will have Maiden Goldenwaves, Maiden Mistycurls, Ravenhair, Lady Lovely Locks' parents and Lelani. The rebooted series will have the Saban name above the Lady Lovely Locks logo." "Saban Brands is currently rebooting the whole cartoon. It might debut on Disney XD next year. The intellectual property is often scheduled for ownership to Saban Capital Group (in which they acquired the trademark from AGC). The rebooted animated series will have Maiden Goldenwaves, Maiden Mistycurls, Ravenhair, Lady Lovely Locks' parents and Lelani. The rebooted series will have the Saban name above the Lady Lovely Locks logo." http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=marciabradypink78
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.WesternAnimationOfThe2010s
I removed the princess one a while ago but they recently added it back. IIRC they also added a Possible Reboot trope to LLL a while back...
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The same user was recently suspended for edit warring on the Edutainment Game page. -
Bump. -
Have you tried talking to them about each of these things? -
Moderators have taken note.
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