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Karxrida Medium: Videogame
06:51:55 PM 28th Jul 2014 edited by Karxrida
Are we allowed to assign Super Power Lottery to anything in Pokemon? I ask because of that ruling awhile back stating no competitive stuff (and some abilities are considered "good" only by a competitive standpoint, mainly Drizzle) but there's no denying that some abilities are flat-out better than the rest.
The ones I thought it would apply to:
Magic Guard - Immune to all passive damage, including recoil from the user's moves or from a Life Orb. Can abuse the One Curse Limit if you're inflicted by Poison or Burn since the owner can no longer be put to Sleep or Paralyzed.
Magic Bounce - Immune to (and bounces back) all non-damaging moves from the opponent unless they have Mold Breaker.
Drizzle - Mostly rooted in competitive use, but it's the main reason why Kyogre is so Purposefully Overpowered (it can 2HKO the best special wall in the game with a special attack). Supports a ton of Pokemon with a 50% boost to Water attacks, Thunder and Hurricane are always accurate, decreases the damage of Fire attacks by 50%, and turns just about anything with Swift Swim into a Lightning Bruiser since most are Water-types.
Prankster - Gives all non-damaging attacks +1 priority, meaning you can inflict Burns, Paralysis, use Status Buffs, or heal yourself before your opponent can move each turn.
Huge/Pure Power - Doubles the owner's attack stat. Anything that has it and is fully evolved has Attack on par with or exceeding most Olympus Mons.
Poison Heal - Heals the owner by 1/8 of their max HP each turn if they are Poisoned and gives status immunity due to One Curse Limit.
Parental Bond - Free 50% boost to all damaging attacks, can break Sturdy/Focus Sash and hit targets behind Substitutes (breaking them then hitting again), both hits have a chance to activate a move's secondary effect (essentially doubling the chance like Serene Grace).
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11:57:25 AM 28th Jul 2014
If there are that many candidates, I am inclined to think that there'd be a few too many "winners" to qualify it as a "lottery" in the Super Power Lottery sense.
It would probably be safer to apply that particular trope for examples outside of the ability game mechanic. Granted, those abilities are fantastic to have, but I don't think Super Power Lottery would be an appropriate trope for them. A good example of a Super Power Lottery winner would be Mew, who has the ability to learn any Pokemon move.
@Larkman: Game Breaker is a YMMV trope, and while they're really good, they're also not really invincible.
03:00:28 PM 28th Jul 2014
No, keep it off the page.
03:03:42 PM 28th Jul 2014
I'd say more SPL should apply due to a combination of factors including ability, such as stats and movepool. For example I'd think Greninja counts — it not only has Protean, but has a huge movepool to abuse it with, the Speed to often get first strike so the player can anticipate what the opponent will do and change Greninja's type to resist it, and it has high Special Attack to put its movepool to use. "Prankster" on pokemon like Klefki and Sableye who learn a wealth of status moves to abuse it with and have good defensive typings to survive several turns would also possibly count.
05:07:57 PM 28th Jul 2014
I haven't added anything yet and you guys seem to be split on this. Could a mod chime in and help, please?
06:51:55 PM 28th Jul 2014
mods don't usually declare consensus. There's absolutely no consensus for the abilities to count as Super Power Lotterywinners.
06:40:55 PM 28th Jul 2014
If a particular trope is played in a way that links it up with another, should the trope it's linked with be listed in a particular way with it, or should it just be referenced in some manner?
Say for example - Only Sane Man: Alice is sometimes this to the point of also being The Reliable One in the series as a whole, because...
Then later on say it again in an Entry for The Reliable One
Or should it be more like:
Only Sane Man: Alice is this when...
The Reliable One: Alice is this among the Five-Man Band, because...
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04:45:39 PM 28th Jul 2014
Just for the sake of it - the last line is supposed to be two separate entries, but it didn't come out that way.
05:38:52 PM 28th Jul 2014
I believe the rule is that an entry should stand on its own, so that if a reader reads only that entry, they get the full idea of how it relates to the work/character.
In your example, I'd be more inclined to go with the first option. It's a bit repetitive, but it prevents the sequence from getting broken up by later edits, such as another trope getting added in-between Only Sane Man and The Reliable One.
06:05:34 PM 28th Jul 2014
Yeah, don't split an example between two tropes. Explain each trope in its own example.
06:40:55 PM 28th Jul 2014
And don't use "is this": that's usually a sign of natter or ZCE.
05:29:11 PM 28th Jul 2014
What's the rule for adding Complete Monster examples to YMMV pages? I've seen someone add an example to a YMMV page but the specific character they've listed isn't listed on the work's Complete Monster page. Am I right in thinking there's a thread somewhere that people have to seek consensus on before a new example can be added anywhere?
What page is this? There's often a delay between approved examples being added to the work's YMMV page and the trope's subpages, so they usually won't show up there for a short while.
05:29:11 PM 28th Jul 2014
It's the Bleach YMMV page. I've ploughed through a few pages on the thread Ultimatum linked me to (thanks for that, btw) and I can see the character (Giselle) has been discussed, but (as far as I can see) the thread has decided to watch her for the moment and see.
I've reasked the question on that thread to find out what they're doing about the character.
05:23:18 PM 28th Jul 2014
I'm going down the trivia list, and a few of the Bad Export for You entries seem to be more Complaining than anything else, including one troper moaning that a DVD will have hard-coded subtitles that you can't turn off (I've checked - it's all the work of one person) on Galaxy Express 999, and someone else moaning that two minigames which relied on Kanji were removed from a game when released in North America on Incredible Crisis. Note: both these entries are now on the trivia pages for those works, Galaxy Express 999 and Incredible Crisis.
I've toned down some of the wording. Is that better?
03:11:28 PM 28th Jul 2014 edited by Elbruno
Just want to make something sure here: Can Eight Deadly Words, as a YMMV, be brought up in any work regardless of overall opinion? I won't lie, I ask this because someone added it to YMMV.Xenoblade, which to those unfamiliar is a recent Eastern RPG with a bit of a cult following.
Eight Deadly Words: The cast are bland, cookie-cutter heroes with no depth, and whose interactions with each other are sickeningly saccharine, making it difficult to care about their journey long enough for anything interesting to happen.
While I find that that entry goes overboard, I am biased, and I can't just shut down someone's entry in YMMV just because I don't agree with it.
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07:43:45 AM 23rd Jul 2014
I got rid of it. That's just complaining. The trope can only be invoked when it's a response from a critic towards a work, not just a comment said of the work as if that's everybody's opinion.
07:59:10 AM 23rd Jul 2014
If that's the case, then someone should add that to the description. While it does mention critics, nothing about it makes me think that it's a necessity.
08:06:06 AM 23rd Jul 2014
^That's exactly the thing that threw me off. All the examples I saw involve critics; if that weren't the case people could just go ahead and use it as an excuse for Complaining About Shows You Don't Like.
08:15:27 AM 23rd Jul 2014
Yeah. The examples are pretty much all mentioning critics, so it seems to be the case. Because as-is I don't see how someone using it to complain is technically misusing it.
08:50:58 AM 23rd Jul 2014
YMMV also requires some sort of general consensus about it. This is clearly just one guy griping.
07:13:13 PM 26th Jul 2014
Huh? Who says YMMV needs "general consensus"?
And there is at least one non-critic example on the page itself about the Jaws movie.
01:00:50 AM 27th Jul 2014 edited by Elbruno
On "general consensus": Most of the items in there in fact, or else we'd be to the roof with people using X or Y YMMV as a scapegoat for Complaining About Shows You Don't Like. You could potentially pull the "unlikeable cast" card on any work if its story doesn't interest a particular viewer, like it was the case in the Xenoblade entry I brought up.
It's one thing to say that what some people have called the best game of its genre is not as good as they say, but to say that the whole cast is unlikeable when you have a massive ammount of people that like the work is ridiculous.
02:22:46 AM 27th Jul 2014
Technically, we don't test YMMV items against "general consensus", mostly because there is no way to do so that would be worth the effort. Some exceptions exist (So Bad, It's Horrible and The Scrappy) but they are just that.
11:20:34 AM 27th Jul 2014
What's our definition of "critic"? Half of Youtube is people reviewing things.
11:23:48 AM 27th Jul 2014
Pretty much "people reviewing more than one work".
03:11:28 PM 28th Jul 2014
The entry should be at least edited to make it clear it's an opinion, not fact.
MrL1193 Medium: Videogame
01:43:23 PM 28th Jul 2014 edited by MrL1193
I have a question about Absurdly High Level Cap and its antithesis, Absurdly Low Level Cap. Both their descriptions state that it's not the largeness or smallness of the numbers that is important but, rather, the average level for completing the game. (That is, for Absurdly High Level Cap, you're not likely to get anywhere close to the cap in a typical playthrough, while for Absurdly Low Level Cap, you'll probably hit the cap long before you finish the game.) However, despite this, both their descriptions insist that they are "by no means mutually exclusive." How is that possible? At most, I could see them applying to different characters within the same game, but I just don't see how they could ever apply to the same thing simultaneously. Is it just a mistake in the descriptions?
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10:25:57 PM 27th Jul 2014 edited by Rotpar
I think it's a fairly rare circumstance. Best I can figure is the Disgaea: Hour of Darkness example: character levels cap at 9,999, you can finish the game about level 100, so Absurdly High Level Cap. However, you can reincarnate that unit into a new level 1 unit that inherits some to all of those stats. So there are simply mountains of grinding and messing with the level cap which effectively makes the "stats cap" something more like 200,000 levels.
Also, I think you can have both between multiple systems. Again, the Disgaea example says the character levels are Absurdly Low, while the weapon skill levels are Absurdly High.
01:43:23 PM 28th Jul 2014
Wouldn't the Disgaea example still be an example of Absurdly High Level Cap, though? I can't imagine that you'd be likely to hit that 200,000 level "stats cap" in a typical playthrough. The level cap may seem very low compared to the stats cap, but if you can finish the game at level 100, they're both still absurdly high compared to what's expected of you.
09:19:31 AM 28th Jul 2014 edited by DrakeClawfang
The Villain Sue page is ambiguous as to what type of character actually qualifies, so I'd like to ask if Caius Ballad from Final Fantasy XIII-2 would count. Here's a run-down of his traits.
He is said by Word of God to be one of the most powerful villains of the series, and has access to some of the most powerful magics in the franchise. He is immortal and cannot die due to possessing the heart of a goddess, and despite being fought numerous times always survives. In-game information describes him as "a peerless hero" of legend who vanquished thousands and was only ever defeated once.
While he is finally killed in the final battle, his plan still works and causes The End of the World as We Know It. In the next game due to the nature of death in this world he's still "alive" and is encountered again, and his soul is saved for potential reincarnation (see fifth point).
He is emphasized to be a sympathetic and tragic Fallen Hero fighting to save the woman he loves, and Word of God says he isn't intended to be seen as villainous because of this.
He is able to summon Bahamut, one of the most iconic summons of the franchise, and merge with it to become Bahamut, something that only he can do and which was never previously known to be possible. Furthermore, in the first game there was already a summoner with Bahamut, how Caius is also able to summon him is given a Hand Wave.
He never faces proper justice for his crimes: he only dies because he wants to and manipulates the heroes into doing it, and when he returns in the next game he performs a Heroic Sacrifice, saving one of the heroes from doing the same and also saving the mentioned woman he loves in the process.
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12:01:50 PM 27th Jul 2014
Seems like it'd fit the bill.
01:12:19 PM 27th Jul 2014
03:17:32 PM 27th Jul 2014
Added it to the page with the following description
"Caius Ballad. He has some of the most powerful magic in the franchise, he's an immortal who cannot die, he can summon Bahamut, he can use a previously unknown summon method to merge with Bahamut, he's intended to be tragic and sympathetic, and is spoken of as a legendary hero who was only ever beaten once. His plan ultimately succeeds and he only dies because he wants it to happen, and in the next game he redeems himself by saving Yeul and going with her incarnations to watch over the Unseen Realm for eternity."
08:35:31 PM 27th Jul 2014
I was under the impression we'd done an example ban on the Mary Sue tropes.
08:53:36 PM 27th Jul 2014
well this is what's on the index
"No examples in any of the pages in this section, please. YMMV tabs and In-Universe Discussed Trope examples on the work pages are fine, however."
09:52:57 PM 27th Jul 2014
Looking to the edit story in Mary Sue Tropes, the "YMMV tabs on the work pages are fine, however" bit was added by Morgenthaler in 22 may. Any discussion about this?
01:14:08 AM 28th Jul 2014
Mary Sue and its subtropes was repeatedly put up for Flame Bait listing but never passed. Until it does, the YMMV rules apply i.e it's OK to list these tropes on YMMV tabs.
09:19:31 AM 28th Jul 2014
^^ I added that bit after a mod made that ruling in some ATT thread at the time, in case you want to know.
Broken Base: This movie is either considered to be a worthy followup to the original or the inferior to the original, but critically it is considered better than anything after it.
This is especially prominent on IMDB, where the user reviews range from the majority of very positive to the Vocal Minority of outright hate.
On the grounds that there is not "a civil war" between fans of Alien "1" and Alien "2", they both tend to agree the two are very good movies of similar quality +8.5 ratings, some like one more than another but they there's nothing near a Fanon Discontinuity like with the sequels. Complaints agains this sequel are neglibible, if any IMDB Board , I certainly don't see a broken base, Aliens is generally loved in the Alienverse and most of the expanded universe is based on it (see the last Colonial Marine game, a sequel +25 years later)
Not enough facts to back this kind of YMMV, but Inmortal Frieza put it back, please advice.
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06:54:47 AM 28th Jul 2014
Well, your assertions are based upon the IMDB board and ... what?
See, this is the reason why I don't like people removing YMMV items for reasons other than getting facts wrong. The arguments seem always to rely on assumptions without much backing.
07:00:40 AM 28th Jul 2014 edited by TrollBrutal
I'm not the one who invoked IMDB, the original editor did, and if you check it, there's not a broken base there.
My point is that it's not true that Alien 1 and 2 divide the fanbase, they are widely regarded as very good movies by fans and critics, the arguments are minor and cool, worthy but a bit inferior sequel or an even better sequel, (a la Godfather 1 vs 2) not a civil war by any stretch. (By contrast, 3, 4 and Prometheus get massive amounts of flak)
Hard (or tiresome) to disprove a negative, I guess.
If we follow the trope description, there's not an example here
"Almost every series has at least some internal conflict amongst its fanbase. In fact, a healthy series should have some polite dissent within its fanbase, as that creates a ground for respectful debate and thoughtful discussion. However, in many, if not most, cases, the amount of dissent is far above this level. "
07:19:22 AM 28th Jul 2014
OK, major reading failure on my part then.
Now, I am not going to assess which opinion is "right" or "wrong", since that is not the point of these pages and we don't have any way to gauge that. I'll instead note that the example writeup argues against its listing and warrant its removal on these grounds.
08:01:50 AM 28th Jul 2014
Speaking from personal, anecdotal experience, there are some people who dislike the fact that it's an Actionized Sequel and wish it were straight suspense/horror like the original. Most still think it's good for what it is, but just wish it didn't have the shift (so mild They Changed It So It Sucks... well, more like "They Changed It So Even If It's Good I Think It Could Have Been Better).
BronyScientistDDLX Medium: Film
06:22:09 AM 28th Jul 2014 edited by BronyScientistDDLX
How would one Add a Fanfic Recs Page for a Movie? The movie In question, Rio, Has roughly 1,000 Fics, and no fanworks page.
A question regarding citations & Unfortunate Implications.
Let's say someone finds something offensive but they can find anyone on the internet agreeing with them . So they go on and create/post on a blog, complaining about it. Then, they provide a link to it to serve as their citation(s).
Is this acceptable? Do citations have to go through some sort of "quality control"? Should the blatantly biased/fake ones get deleted?
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06:15:25 PM 27th Jul 2014
So basically they set up a source backing up their claims, then put an example up citing the source they created as "proof"? That sounds all kind of sketchy to me. (And stupid, to leave evidence that they're the ones that did it.)
I think that kind of thing should be deleted, but you might want to wait for a mod to say so.
01:13:22 AM 28th Jul 2014
The point of citations is to stop the ill-supported claims. Biased or no is not a consideration at all.
02:03:44 AM 28th Jul 2014
Perhaps the point of those blogs is to see if others share their views on the matter(s) in question?
03:58:23 AM 28th Jul 2014
But what it sounds like is the person setting up their own source for the claim. Making a claim and citing your own source for 'evidence' isn't supporting the claim at all, since the person can write their 'source' any way they want. The only exception was if they backed that up from other sources -and in that case, why not link to one of those in the first place?
06:01:16 AM 28th Jul 2014 edited by FastEddie
Stuff like this is why we stay out of the opinion business in the articles. This entire scenario is of no interest if facts are what we are delivering as wittily as possible. Citing an opinion held elsewhere doesn't change the opinion from being an opinion.
Perhaps using the word three time in one sentence will emphasize that opinions are the problem.
As for them claiming that something is "offensive" ... just because there is some other jackass on the internet who agrees with a pet peeve frequently only means that there is more than one jackass on the internet. Which we knew. Not a useful edit.
04:20:43 PM 27th Jul 2014 edited by tryrar
Quick question: how often does it happen that a trope, while having a moderate amount of wicks(around 40 in this case), attract ZERO inbounds? because that's what's happening on Sewer Gator, which is odd since the urban legend of alligators in the sewers is common enough you'd think it would pull in more people....
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06:10:56 PM 25th Jul 2014 edited by DracMonster
Inbounds can take a long time. Search engine links aren't counted - someone has to link it from a forum post or blog or something. That's only been around for a few months so it's not that strange.
02:46:26 AM 26th Jul 2014 edited by CrypticMirror
Yeah, really we're waiting on XKCD or Darths & Droids to link to every trope on the site to get the inbounds for them.
07:51:15 AM 26th Jul 2014
That is both bad, and probably true.... XD
02:23:17 PM 27th Jul 2014
We used to track which pages got the most search engine hits, but the list was depressingly dominated by people looking for porn.
04:20:43 PM 27th Jul 2014
In fairness, that's the internet in general.
02:19:15 PM 27th Jul 2014
Can one refer to a poorly-selling direct-to-video movie as a Box Office Bomb?
I took out the slogans. I would favour the trope list to be limited to the same self-presentation tropes that Barack Obama is limited to, as an aside.
05:57:58 AM 27th Jul 2014
Having launched Memetic Troll. I must ask? is this YMMV?
Okay I want to know if this is YMMV or not because...i forgot the corsswicking and I don't know if all "Memetic" stuff falls under YMMV by default
and before anyone ask yes it has 5 hats when I launched it.
I don't see anything wrong with removing those links. After all, that comic's page specifically states, "Because the site has a SFW "Do you really want to see this content?" page, we allow links to the site, but do not link directly to NSFW comics."
07:48:37 PM 26th Jul 2014
Yeah, removed the links.
12:26:28 PM 26th Jul 2014
Hi there! Two questions:
1. If a picture is poor and not selected by Image Pickin', can I replace it? Or should I get consenses first
2. What is the policy for instances of Poe's Law on So Bad, It's Horrible and Dethroning Moment of Suck? I mean when someone critisizes a parody because they misses that it was a joke. Not actually a factual inaccuracy, I suppose, so should it remain left alone?
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07:56:22 AM 26th Jul 2014 edited by SeptimusHeap
If the only thing that you change is the quality (e.g by changing a heavily pixelated image to a non-pixelated version of the same image), it's a free action. Otherwise, Image Picking is recommended.
DMOS ought to be left alone. As for SBIH, if the work cited is a parody and someone misses its point, then the work probably will have a sufficient genuine audience to warrant its delisting.
10:44:14 AM 26th Jul 2014 edited by rodneyAnonymous
"1. If a picture is poor and not selected by Image Pickin', can I replace it? Or should I get consenses first?"
Absolutely you can replace it. But in a wiki, the most relevant question is not "can I do this?", it is "will this be undone?" Going through IP will dramatically increase the chance that your change will "stick". Also that forum is pretty good at finding a good page image, something even better than what you have in mind might be suggested.
12:26:28 PM 26th Jul 2014 edited by PistolsAtDawn
Well I made a image picking thread. Its for Crush Blush
07:33:19 AM 26th Jul 2014
It seems to me as though there are a lot of British terms used on TVT and a lot more British works than others end up covered here as well. Is this because TV Tropes has British roots, or maybe because a majority of the Tropers are British?
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10:56:07 AM 25th Jul 2014
I don't see a lot of British terms but several articles/trope titles use Commonwealth Spelling but the British aren't the only people who use it though (I use it myself). Tvtropes doesn't have British roots as far as I know and the majority of tropers aren't British. I don't think there's that many British works here; there's way more American works here than British.
11:14:24 AM 25th Jul 2014
Maybe through pure coincidence, the site happens to trope British works more than you'd expect from a random average.
11:43:07 AM 25th Jul 2014
I don't think that's the case, Sept; you can pretty much use the site as a barometer for what British shows are doing well over seas.
There are plenty of British shows which are either not on here at all or just have barely enough tropes to make a page.
11:55:42 AM 25th Jul 2014 edited by Fighteer
I suspect a form of confirmation bias here; I don't notice a disproportionate representation of British shows except for the ones that have become very popular in the U.S.
This is a U.S.-based website and has a high proportion of American members. We welcome our cousins from across the pond, of course, even though they do spell things funny. They have a great, if odd, sense of humor, but they eat weird foods.
02:28:46 PM 25th Jul 2014
Also, we continental Europeans learn British English at school. We might take a pick-and-mix approach to the language later in life, but most of the spelling we're taught usually sticks.
05:52:32 PM 25th Jul 2014
British English is also the dialect often taught in places like Hong Kong, Singapore, and Japan. (Based on admittedly limited personal knowledge.) That would increase the frequency of edits made in British English. Aussies also spell in British English, although they have their own forms and slang. (Which is grand fun.)
It's awesome, even if the Brits will insist on calling fries 'chips'. :p ;)
08:37:07 PM 25th Jul 2014
Then there's the strange Americans who take a preference to the Commonwealth style of spelling, such as me. (-ou- makes more sense than -o- in many words) I won't give up my -zed-s, though.
04:03:29 AM 26th Jul 2014
Don't forget that we have a few Canadian tropers. You guys have your own weird spelling that looks mostly British.
07:33:19 AM 26th Jul 2014
What Virodhi said, though I'm not European by any stretch of the word. [[Dissimile And I was taught American spelling at school by British teachers.]]
Looking at the influx of unindexed pages, I think posting a general notice about indexing in a visible area of the wiki might be a good idea.
06:29:20 AM 25th Jul 2014
I'll call Freezair in for a chat. Sheesh.
06:00:22 AM 25th Jul 2014
There's this guy named veriaqa. His edits are tame, but on his edits on Indonesia, I'm... actually feeling a little off in his edits, saying things like "Indonesia only consist of Java. Screw the rest.". He said he's just trying to add up humor and saying that it's the truth about Indonesian history, while I think he may be getting a little too liberal in his sarcasm. I'm Indonesian, and I find that his sense of 'sarcasm' MAY BE getting out of control.
What do you think, is this getting out of control? Well I know we Indonesians are minor in TVT, but I'd like to get some inputs about this. Thank you.
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07:47:56 AM 24th Jul 2014
Not an Indonesian, but that page strikes me as mixing fiction and history a bit too much in that section. That paragraph is not necessary in my mind.
Having problems with natter and justifying edits is one thing.
But... this guy has been sending me PM saying that 'I sound like a jerk for not revealing the truth.' And once he knew I'm a Batavian (Actually I'm born in Jakarta), he started sending me PM's further, sounding like he's extremely angry... that he wanted the world knew that Javanese are doing colonization on the archipelago. It's like he's angry about those Indonesian history being dominated with the Javanese kingdoms doing a conquering-spree, saying that Indonesia is built upon lies (we already got enough shits already over here in Indonesia, so gimme a break) and decided to use TV Tropes for his start of 'Rebellion'.
I dunno about you guys, but... This guy is starting to creep me out, and I say this as a fellow Indonesian. Mods can check other's PM, right? If you can, mind if you check and decide what's the best course?
09:01:55 PM 24th Jul 2014
Great. Using This Very Wiki as a platform for his agenda? This has gone far enough! >:(
I'm not sure if he really wants a rebellion or something, but from the tone of his words, someone's pissed about how the past of Indonesia is... more about Java kingdom conquest spree, it's not their fault Majapahit got Gajah Mada and rose as a superpower back in the days...
Just... handle with care. Call him for something... speak nicely first. We don't want to condemn the wrong person, right?
EDIT: ... Oh. Wait. I'm ninja'd. Well, I hope things can be solved out for the best in that one topic about Suspended account.
01:36:23 AM 25th Jul 2014
This new account readded the contested paragraph. Methinks ban-evading sockpuppet ahoy.
05:20:56 AM 25th Jul 2014
It is. Why won't people talk to us? Just talk, not run around and be all defiant?
05:26:30 AM 25th Jul 2014 edited by DracMonster
Because he chose to die with honor rather than surrender. Banzai!
05:30:02 AM 25th Jul 2014
I am guessing that some people are too proud to want to beg for their privileges back in Edit Banned.
06:00:22 AM 25th Jul 2014
Or they think that we think they're gone, and don't think the same behavior will attract attention because, hey, they're using a different name! It's a very peculiar type of thinking, often found in those who haven't emotionally matured yet.
While acknowledging that Disney has made strides in including people of color in their films in the past few decades, such as Aladdin, Mulan, Pocahontas, Lilo & Stitch, Brother Bear, and The Princess and the Frog, some have observed that Disney has featured a larger proportion of films with a Caucasian human cast than films with people of other races.
And this is what I want to add: ...though it could be mitigated by the fact that most of the countries portrayed by Disney Films (like England, Norway, Germany, France, and Greece) have historically had large Caucasian populations, while films with PoC Princesses have generally been set in places where Persons of Color are prominent (like New Orleans, Hawaii, Colonial America, and China).
...So, should I add it in, or just dump it in the Discussion Page? Thanks in advance.
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05:57:20 PM 21st Jul 2014
I wouldn't add it at all. Justifying Edit, and it's meant to be a fantasy land. You can't suddenly talk about historical accuracy when there's talking snowmen.
06:34:59 AM 22nd Jul 2014
08:41:04 AM 23rd Jul 2014
That wouldn't just come across as natter, it IS natter.
12:13:04 PM 23rd Jul 2014
Just remember, if you disagree with something on YMMV, that's why it's YMMV.
01:05:23 PM 23rd Jul 2014
FYI, Solaris IS right but I don't know how that would go on the page with starting a flamewar
01:25:03 PM 23rd Jul 2014
Don't you mean "without"?
01:47:55 PM 23rd Jul 2014
Shoboni, the problem is there are as many arguments against that reasoning as there are for it. And it's subjective who is "more" right. (For instance, I happen to come down on the other side of the argument, in that it IS historically accurate to have a some people of color in crowd scenes, even if they aren't main characters). Hence, again, why this is YMMV.
05:06:21 PM 23rd Jul 2014
Yes, I meant without.
09:56:30 PM 23rd Jul 2014
09:39:46 AM 24th Jul 2014
Please don't start a British vs. American English argument.
10:03:40 AM 24th Jul 2014
Note that the original bit you want to add to is itself natter, which by its nature invites yet more natter, which the OP here demonstrates.
I would just delete that too but I am sketchy on the rules for YMMV pages.
10:29:33 AM 24th Jul 2014
Natter doesn't belong on any tab, main, YMMV or otherwise.
08:45:01 PM 24th Jul 2014 edited by Kuruni
AFAIK, the only place it's allow is Headscratcher, and that's only second bullet.
08:27:14 PM 24th Jul 2014
On the Cinema Sins page, there seems to be a "combined" trope of Catchphrase and Running Gag, but beneath that there's another trope for Running Gag that contains more or less the same examples. What exactly is the difference, if any, between a catchphrase and a running gag, and should the two be merged?
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08:27:14 PM 24th Jul 2014
They are substantially different and should be separated. A Catch Phrase can be a Running Gag, and vice versa, but they should not be listed together.
05:18:04 PM 24th Jul 2014
Would BNSF1995 have anything to do with Mondo Bros by any chance? I sort of doubt it because it's not a new account, but they seem to have the same "how dare Flame Princess leave Finn" Single-Issue Wonk with ranty misuse of tropes.
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04:51:22 PM 24th Jul 2014
04:51:45 PM 24th Jul 2014
Ah kay, sorry about that.
05:05:22 PM 24th Jul 2014
If he keeps edit warring for his opinion, let us know.
05:18:04 PM 24th Jul 2014
Haven't seen that happen yet, but will do. Thanks.
Thanks. I knew there was somewhere else this was supposed to go, but couldn't remember where.
TheOneWhoTropes Medium: Videogame
11:53:40 AM 23rd Jul 2014 edited by TheOneWhoTropes
Nearest one, anyway.
What page type should Let's Plays be, if they are about the person making them? Creator or Work? Some of them (Like LetsPlay.Twitch Plays Pokemon) belong as works since they are more like experimental art than anything else, like you'd see at FACT in Liverpool or other modern art galleries, but I'm not sure when it looks like its more about the creator of the Let's Play than the games being played.
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11:49:52 AM 23rd Jul 2014
Work. If the page solely talks about the creator with no work tropes, put it under Creator/ and Creator.
11:53:40 AM 23rd Jul 2014
Let's Plays are works. If they end up being significantly about their creator, then we just need to make sure that they obey the rules for creator pages, most specifically no tropes about the real person. Their "in-game" persona is fine, however.
09:58:49 AM 23rd Jul 2014 edited by immortalfrieza
I'm trying to create a fridge subpage for the most recent Robocop movie, but I can't because apparently there's a lock there for a page that doesn't even exist yet. How is that possible?
Is it a faux pas for a description to contain any specific case of anything that is factual information? I couldn't say, for example, on the page for high pitched whining that it was commonly associated with James Earl Jones (if that was a fact)?
Is that a thing to be avoided, lest we become like The Other Place?
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08:37:43 AM 22nd Jul 2014
Well, facts are facts and are thereby okay. However, things which are "commonly associated" are not facts. By what evidence is "commonly" measured?
"Most people...", "fans", etc.. Are not sources of facts. They are opinions being given false support by the way they are written.
10:15:09 AM 22nd Jul 2014
Well eh, suppose there is a page for the science of deduction - I did not check - do you suppose the article would referene Sherlock Holmes?
I know that articles about music genres or about certain decades give a lot of specifics (both might for example mention Elvis) but that may not be the same of course.
12:44:55 PM 22nd Jul 2014 edited by DracMonster
The Sherlock Holmes example certainly wouldn't be a problem.
Is there something specific you're thinking about adding to a page? Or something you've seen on a particular page that you're questioning?
08:39:03 AM 23rd Jul 2014 edited by rodneyAnonymous
The vagueness of the question makes it difficult to answer. What do you mean?
ryanasaurus0077 Medium: Western Animation
01:49:57 AM 23rd Jul 2014
Due to their loose following of canon and their Lighter and Softer tone, fans widely consider the sequels and the series as disappointing and inferior to the original film. Only three things stay consistent with the sequels and the series: the amount of time between the second film and the series (two years), David's age (ten years old), and Charlie's age (four, in human years). However, among audiences, the sequels are often more popular for the same reason.
Why was this passage removed from All Dogs Go to Heaven?
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01:49:57 AM 23rd Jul 2014
Because it was a) being readded by Nate's socks and b) because we don't list audience opinions on the main article. These go in reviews or the YMMV tab.
01:16:47 AM 23rd Jul 2014 edited by RabidTanker
For some reason I keep getting infected by an faux-virus called PUP.Optional.Ad Peak when I use this site. Is anyone else experiencing this or is it just me?
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08:52:18 PM 22nd Jul 2014
I haven't, but you should probably bring it up in this thread, which discusses wiki-related security issues. Less likely to get lost in the general ATT traffic that way.
01:16:47 AM 23rd Jul 2014
If you don't have them already, get Malwarebytes and Spybot. Even the free basic versions are good at digging out that kind of crap and toasting it.
01:13:46 AM 23rd Jul 2014 edited by Rotpar
Question guys, I made this YKTTW draft nearly a year ago back, after finding a work page that needed some help. The page was badly launched—I think it was entirelyZero Context Examples—and I sent it to YKTTW for help, mining the examples on the draft from potholes in the description.
At any rate, the page Needs Wiki Magic Love whoever may be familiar with the game.
I just need to know what to do with the YKTTW. Discard it? I don't need to launch it, right?
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01:13:46 AM 23rd Jul 2014
Nah, just copy the examples over and discard it. I have done a similar YKTTW in the past.
HasturHasturHastur Medium: Music
09:25:32 PM 22nd Jul 2014
The troper m8e has been blindly adding links to music-related lists at a fairly brisk pace; few of the links that said troper has made lead to actual pages, thereby creating a sea of redlinks. I sent the troper a private message asking them to refrain from doing so any further unless they were prepared to create a page for every single redlink (which is not at all feasible) and was evidently ignored when they did it to another music list. Would anyone with authority be willing to revert that troper's bad edits and have a talk with them about why they shouldn't do that? I assumed simple ignorance on m8e's part at first, but after they blew off my PM, I have reason to believe that they just don't care.
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06:57:10 AM 22nd Jul 2014 edited by Fighteer
Generally, we don't mind redlinking articles that might someday exist, as it encourages them to be created.
07:00:22 AM 22nd Jul 2014 edited by HasturHasturHastur
I understand, but the quantities are so vast that it's downright disruptive. We're talking hundreds of redlinks in total.
07:20:54 AM 22nd Jul 2014
The only issue is that the indexing mechanism doesn't work properly if a page is added to an index before the page is actually created.
09:24:28 PM 22nd Jul 2014
Kudos to him, his wicks are also namespaced, so if somebody does make the page they should be where they belong.
Hi there! I recently found a fairly recent Furry webcomic called "The Great Suitor", but there isn't anything about it on Tv Tropes. I wanted to ask if it's possible to create a page about it, and if someone could possibly help me doing it (i've never written a Tv Tropes page before! xD)
The webcomic link is here: http://thegreatsuitor.jimdo.com/
It's still very amatorial, but I think it shows some promises.
Thank you! I'll read the instructions and try to get it done!
08:18:29 AM 22nd Jul 2014 edited by LordHerobrine
Do we have a trope for people's voices being heard over large distances while in Real Life this would be impossible?
Example: Bob is delivering a World Of Cardboard speech to Charlie while a battle rages around him. Bob is on a 4 story building while Charlie is on the street. There should be no possible way that Charlie can even hear Bob but he does, despite the cannons and the explosions.
In Universe Example: In Naruto, Tobi and Madara are standing atop a massive Eldritch Abomination killing, slaughtering, and essentially walloping upwards of nearly 4000+ Ninja who are screaming and dying everywhere. Yet Naruto can still pick up Obito's voice over the unholy din.
dsneybuf has for some inexplicable reason decided to go around the wiki and add rankings to a gazillion films. As we all know, this is Trivia and not supposed to go in descriptions. Now I need some help cleaning up his mess.
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09:14:31 AM 21st Jul 2014
Going to do that, although some seem to be older than his edit.
09:15:08 AM 21st Jul 2014
Looking at his edits, it seems he's been changing '"thrills" list' to '100 Years...100 Thrills' in at least some cases, rather than outright adding the rankings list.
AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies seems to be at the root of this particular problem. What should we do with that article? I say it should be deleted or moved to Trivia. It's not a trope, certainly, and its value as an index is suspect.
They are too. I just happened to stumble upon this particular one.
09:05:16 PM 21st Jul 2014
The best answer I can give is that they are considered prominent faces not just in history but the media as well. Is it controversial to say Bush had a lower approval rating than The Boss? Or Bin Laden was a death worshipper? Or Gaddafi supported rape? Sure it is. And? Should we lie about these things? Should we cover them up? Not list how they appear in fiction? That would be going against our mission statement.
11:45:21 PM 21st Jul 2014
Er, strictly speaking, the only part of that that has to do with our mission statement is the "list how they appear in fiction" part.
12:43:36 AM 22nd Jul 2014
Funny House Of Saddam isn't even mentioned. Most of the tropes could be transplanted there.