• 1 Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:02AM
    Lastest Reply: 29th Mar, 2017 07:06:06 AM
    OK, here's a delicate one. I'll try to formulate as neutral as possible.

    7th Heaven ran from 1996 to 2006. Years later in 2014, it came to light that main actor of that show Stephen Collins had sexually molested children in Real Life.

    Now the 7th Heaven YMMV page is riddled with backwards interpretations of his In Universe character, Eric, through these horrific acts the actor commited in Real Life. E.g. Eric is called a Base-Breaking Character due to what his actor did in Real Life; there are lots of potholes to Harsher in Hindsight regarding any scene Eric's character had with a minor girl, etc.

    So my question: in how far do we interpret / judge characters on YMMV pages through the lens of what their actors did in Real Life?

    Because I think on this particular page, the In Universe character Eric is Troped too much on what his actor did in Real Life, than on the character as himself In Universe. Reply

      The short answer to your main question is "We don't." What the actor did has relevance to our pages on the show only as much as they affected the show at the time that it was created. We don't trope Real People.

      I took a look at it; the two entries regarding specific scenes are ok. the general ones have been removed.
  • 1 Mar 29th, 2017 at 2:02AM
    Lastest Reply: 29th Mar, 2017 07:03:46 AM
    Kalle has cutlisted Folie ŕ Deux ♥ Pretty Cure! and its Characters/ page (but oddly not its Trivia/ page), both with the edit reason "Old Shame". Can a mod please tap them on the shoulder re: The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours? Reply
  • 3 Mar 28th, 2017 at 6:06PM
    Lastest Reply: 29th Mar, 2017 06:55:10 AM
    So these got deleted: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanWorks/RivalsSeries http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanficRecs/RivalsSeries

    I kind of understand how the fanfic recs got deleted, because of improper formatting. But a fanfiction can have fanfiction so...?

    Is there an appropriate way to link fan art, podfics, etc?

    Thanks! Reply

      Fan Fic Recommendations.

      Try this. :)

      I did it got deleted cause improper formatting and "fanfic pages cannot have fanfic recommendations"

      Going through the index, I found that FanficRecs.Fallout Equestria exists, so I don't think there should be a problem with creating a recommendations page for a fan work as long as it follows the guidelines. Those guidelines are strictly about fan fiction, meaning you probably can't use the page for fan art, fan videos, etc.

      Also, I don't know about Rivals, but I'd think that this would only be done if the fan work the fics are based on becomes its own thing distinct from the original work, otherwise you'd be better off using the recommendations page for the base work.
  • 3 Mar 29th, 2017 at 12:12AM
    Lastest Reply: 29th Mar, 2017 06:51:59 AM
    Okay, so on the main Cat Scare page, it says that it doesn't always lead to a Jump Scare, it just often does. However, both the Laconic and Playing With pages for it act like it has to lead to a Jump Scare to be Played Straight. Can you please clear this up? P.S. Sorry for all that YKTS bother. Reply

      This is a Trope Talk forum sort of question.

      Specific questions about what the trope is supposed to be belong on Trope Talk, but in general the trope's main page takes precedence over Laconic and Playing With. Especially Laconic pages often misrepresent the trope.

      The laconic was an easy fix. The Playing With will take a bit more effort.
  • 9 Mar 28th, 2017 at 9:09PM
    Lastest Reply: 29th Mar, 2017 06:45:14 AM
    Defiant Armadillo has been adding a note on the character page and the main page, stating that the information for the series is only on the main and character pages and the Mahouka official wiki.

    I removed it from both pages since it's considered natter, but the note was just put back in on the main page. I don't want to start an edit war over this matter, but can someone look into it? Thanks. Reply

      DefiantArmadillo has been doing the same the same thing on several other pages. I already removed the note that was on the Persona 5 page.

      Has anyone PM'd him that we don't do that?

      Going through the recent edits, it looks like we've got a major problem here. I removed the note from the Mahouka main page and the SAO main page just now.

      Well, here's the basic rule for an Edit War as far as I know. If it's added, then deleted, no harm. If it's readded right away, that could be an Edit War.

      Well, it's been added and deleted twice on that Light Novel page, so technically we're already at the point of an Edit War.

      EDIT: Yeah, on the Characters page too, but at least that was two weeks between the first edit and the most recent regarding the weird Wiki information.

      Yep, I would agree that from a technical standpoint, we're at the point of an Edit War and because of that, I wanted to post here so that discussion would take place.

      I sent them a PM five days ago after deleting the natter they added to the SAO Character page, telling them that they're Edit Warring by re-adding the same information multiple times and that they should take it to discussion/PM instead. I've gotten no response, they've not used any of the discussion pages, and evidently they've not given up on trying to add the information again. At this point they've tried to add it to nearly a dozen different pages, even with multiple unrelated tropers deleting it for being natter. I think a mod's intervention is required.

      Pulled them in.

      Called to the principal's office for a chat about Natter and Edit Warring. Go ahead and remove it from all pages you encounter it on.
  • 0 Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:01AM
    Western Animation
    Okay there are four pages at the bottom of what seems to be an index for YMMV items pertaining to Friendship is Magic. All of which have nonstandard pages. These 4 are:

    I understand why these page would exist, and why a namespace convention like that would be use (consistency for the use of tropes as namespaces for trope subpages), but I don't think this is really kosher (well expect maybe Other, but that'd still be a nonstandard use). I want to know if we should move them to pages with the namespace and article name reversed or to new pages (with both the work name and the current namespace as the title) under the YMMV/ namespace as per more traditional namespace/YMMV page conventions?

    If this had been brought up before, i apologize. Reply
  • 0 Mar 29th, 2017 at 1:01AM
    So is there a particular period of time in when reediting something back in falls into Edit War? Reply
  • 7 Mar 28th, 2017 at 12:12AM
    Lastest Reply: 28th Mar, 2017 10:36:57 PM
    I suspect that the troper adudnameddud is a sock of Patrobotnik, given their only edits are Yoshizilla-Rhedosaurus related and their account appeared the immediate day after Patrobotnik's suspension. Reply

      Are they anti-Rosalina in nature? That would be a clue.

      Not yet, but they may just be playing safe. Patrobotnik seemed to go by the "hold off till you think everyone's forgotten, then try again" method.

      I didn't realize Patrobotnik was suspended. Is that what happens when you get "tapped on the shoulder?"

      I've also never seen a reply from him in the Edit Banned/Suspended thread. You'd think he'd go there first before ban evading. Ban evasion is instant permanent ban and a possible *boing*, last I checked.

      I assumed they were suspended because the edits abruptly stopped at the 13th when they were "tapped".

      You'd be surprised at how many tropers tend to think instantly making a new account is the "easier" solution.

      Yeah, it's them. IP and behavior match. Bounced both accounts.

      ^^ Even though making a new account is specifically forbidden...

      Asking for a "tap" is simply a way of directing them towards the problematic troper. A suspension is not always the result.

      Usually when a suspension does result, it can include (but is not restricted to): not listening to other tropers politely telling them do that/don't do that, so a mod has to intervene; previous bad behavior (including former suspensions); edit-warring; or when they are doing something that actively damages the wiki (like running text-replacement plugins).

      Well, if I read the last thread about Patrobotnik correctly, he did Edit War on an entry concerning Rosalina, and an Edit War is grounds for an automatic suspension.
  • 4 Mar 27th, 2017 at 9:09AM
    Lastest Reply: 28th Mar, 2017 10:25:32 PM
    One of the examples in the Anime & Manga folder of Now, Let Me Carry You doesn't specify the work it came from. Does anyone know the source? And do we have any written policy on what to do with such entries? Thanks Reply

      I'll guess Mikaela Hyakuya, but I'm not sure. The policy when the work name is missing is to remove it. Try contacting the troper who added it.

      Googling the characters' names points out toward Owari no Seraph/Seraph of the End. Needs confirming, but it looks the best fit.

      If you can't find the work name, my guess is that such entry should be commented out, with an additional "Please add the work name", for later correction. (I doubt there is any written policy, though).

      If the example is recent, you can also message the editor who added it, to point out the mistake.

      In general, not something we want. Exceptions for "A short story by Specific Author" may be allowed, since the example can be cross-wicked to the author's Creator/ page, and it should be relatively easy for someone familiar with the author's work to fill in the name eventually. (I've seen this happen dozens of times.)

      Without at least the author's name, though, or something similar to help pin it down, yeah, there's simply nothing to go on.

      I'd recommend pulling the example to the discussion page, myself. But whatever works; I don't think there's a policy on it beyond you're supposed to have the work name in the example on the trope page.
  • 1 Mar 28th, 2017 at 9:09PM
    Live Action TV
    Lastest Reply: 28th Mar, 2017 10:10:58 PM
    Just how "enthusiastic" are people allowed to get on a page for a movie of a TV show?

    I ask because I was reading the page for The Voice and couldn't help but notice that someone is really, really a fan of Cassadee Pope and her band Hey Monday. I removed something that looked like a conversation, but then noticed the various associated pages had multiple examples of this sort of thing, so I wanted to find out if this was kosher or something before I stepped on someone's toes. Reply

      We don't have Neutral Point of View, but we do have no gushing (or bashing) on main wiki pages.

      (Dull Surprise also has weasel words, which are a no go.)
  • 12 Mar 28th, 2017 at 2:02PM
    Lastest Reply: 28th Mar, 2017 09:52:44 PM
    Josejr55 deleted recommendations for FanficRecs.The Loud House with the reason "Unnecessary cruelty". Is this kosher? Reply

      Unnecessary cruelty? What?

      That's one of the oddest and most unexplanatory edit reasons I've ever heard.

      He got rid of recommendations that are Darker and Edgier. That's Bowdlerization.

      Ergo, he needs a tap. Mods?

      Was Joseji 55 notified that their actions aren't kosher first?

      We'll bring them in for a talk. Reverting as well.

      No, because I wasn't sure they were. Should I send them a PM?

      Hey, could someone check their IP with Languid Joey? They put back up a roleplay/fic that Languid rec'd almost immediately after someone took it off, with a very similar typing style.

      ^ Courtesy link? Are you saying they remade a page that was already cut?

      No, I mean Languid Joey recommended a roleplay on Fanfic Recs.The Loud House without a title. BobSaget9 removed it three days later, followed by Josejr55 adding it back, with N8han11 taking it off again with the reason that Fanfic Recs is for fanfiction, not roleplay.

      Double posted. Ignore this one.

      ^Has Languid Joey already been suspended?

      I'm not sure.

      IP check gives a positive match. The fact that the two accounts added the same thing verifies the connection.

      Bouncing both. To answer The Nerf Guy's question: That user wasn't previously suspended.
  • 2 Mar 28th, 2017 at 5:05PM
    Lastest Reply: 28th Mar, 2017 07:06:05 PM
    God's Not Dead

    The reality subtext entry looks like political natter masquerading as a trope entry, should I kill it? Reply

      It doesn't talk about anything in the film. I'd say cut it.

      I deleted it. While the political leanings of the actors might be subtext if that was why they were cast, there's nothing in the example to support that.
  • 11 Mar 27th, 2017 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 28th Mar, 2017 05:21:20 PM
    Morgenthaler created a redirect ahead of the upcoming Death Note film here yesterday (that will likely become a full blown page come the movie's release date. Now, Tropers/Crossover-Enthusiast has blanked and cutlisted it. What (if anything) should be done? Reply

      To call that "blanking the page" is unfair. I have encountered other tropers who do a similar thing to cutlisted pages; there's this idea that pages need to be "prepared" for the cutlist. After PM'ing them about it (and if the page was kept), the issue gets resolved by either them fixing their mistake or you fixing it and them not repeating it.

      Considering that the film isn't out yet, I think this is just a misunderstanding of what subpages are okay to have redirects prior to the work actually existing.

      'Kay. Just figured I'd ask.

      Note the upcoming American film has a page at Death Note (2017) while the Japanese films are on the manga page

      For whatever reason, the first film adaption didn't gets it's own page just the sequels

      Just FYI: The reason that one work has a page and another, closely related work doesn't (in this case the sequels have pages but the original doesn't) is almost always that somebody cared enough about the one to make a page and nobody has bothered to make a page for the other. On vanishingly rare occasions, one of a set of related works may have had its page cut and locked to prevent remaking it due to content.

      Being honest, I just thought someone made a weird redirect for the anime even though the 2017 movie had its own page. Was I not supposed to do that?

      For clarity, I made that redirect in reference to the 2006 film, not the 2017 one. And yes, AFAIK making such redirects is perfectly fine when there's a closely related work in another medium. For instance, there are numerous pages in the Literature/ and Theatre/ namespaces with a Film/ redirect if any adaptations haven't gotten their own pages (yet).

      In addition, that redirect dates back to 2015, not yesterday.

      My mistake. I missed out the year >_<

      Oh, my bad, then.

      ^^^^^ Hmm, I thought the Japanese films did quite well at the box office and were popular with the fanbase

      Maybe we turn the page into a disambiguation page in case anyone needs it? That way it will be a useful page for both films.
  • 5 Mar 27th, 2017 at 6:06PM
    Lastest Reply: 28th Mar, 2017 01:20:29 PM
    There was a recent controversy with the game removing Jon Tron because of his infamous stream comments, and fans getting angry and demanding refunds. Since there's now an entry about it, does this count as drama that needs to be removed? Reply

      I'd say so, but wait for Word of Mod on this one. Deletion of YMMV items require them to be either factually inaccurate or have mod approval, iirc.

      Courtesy link? Generally we want to avoid "hot off the press" controversies while troping.

      YMMV.Yooka Laylee.

      Here you go.

      I'd say to nuke it under ROCEJ.

      Maybe link here, too, or at least reference ATT, so no one thinks it's just being done randomly.
  • 1 Mar 27th, 2017 at 9:09PM
    Lastest Reply: 28th Mar, 2017 11:48:54 AM
    Main.Animesque has a folder for "Animation - U.S.A." In February, someone made a page for Animesque.Japanese American Co Productions (for co-productions between Japanese and American companies). Should that page be merged into Animesque as a separate folder? There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of examples to justify a separate page, and the fact that "Non-Japanese" is an element of the trope, I'm not sure if any of those examples really count...? Reply

      Yeah, it's unindexed and not that big, it doesn't really need the subpage. I'd say merge back.

      The examples are still clearly recognized as western productions, though, so they still count as examples.
  • 4 Mar 27th, 2017 at 1:01PM
    Lastest Reply: 28th Mar, 2017 10:29:13 AM
    When people type "bump", what does that mean? Reply

      To "bump" a topic is to post so as to bring it to the top of any list that is ordered chronologically by last post. The implication is that bumping is done without adding any content to the conversation; it is simply an attempt to gain attention. This is frowned upon in some communities, for the following reasons (generally speaking):

      • If you want to keep a conversation going, you should contribute to it, not just push it to the top.
      • A conversation that has died through lack of attention should be allowed to fall down naturally, not brought back after people have lost interest.
      • If bumping is done repeatedly in this manner, it may drive conversations that people actually have interest in down in the list.
      • Bumping a topic after a long time has gone by without any activity may be considered a particularly annoying form of thread necromancy, as you've not only brought a long-dead topic back to life, but you haven't done anything to keep it alive.

      Bumping may be justified when there is an unresolved issue that needs to be brought to people's attention, but the pace of the forum has driven it out of view.

      It means they were posting a comment just to get the topic back up to the top of the page so that it gets more attention. "Bumping" it back to the top, as it were.

      Basically just a request for further discussion.

      EDIT: Mod-ninja'd

      What about pages on the trope launch pad without enough hats?

      It's the same story. People typically bump up prospective tropes that don't have enough hats because they want the trope to have enough hats to be launchable.
  • 1 Mar 28th, 2017 at 8:08AM
    Lastest Reply: 28th Mar, 2017 09:04:43 AM
    Do we need more Gratuitous Languages tropes? Especially with Chinese. Reply

      The answer to, "Do we need more X?" is always, "No." You have to do the work to justify it.
  • 1 Mar 28th, 2017 at 5:05AM
    Lastest Reply: 28th Mar, 2017 05:35:58 AM
    I found LAconic/EducationThroughPyrotechnics two minutes ago, and the namespace typo seems to be causing the page fail to auto-index in the laconic wiki. However, it is not possible to edit the namespace by creating a new laconic page since it just edits the same page instead. What to do? Reply

      Only way to fix it is to Cut List the page then recreate it with the proper capitalization.
  • 1 Mar 28th, 2017 at 4:04AM
    Lastest Reply: 28th Mar, 2017 04:54:00 AM
    Does it matter that the title of the comic has the wrong format? Links to the comic are written thusly: This Til Mistil Kistil. It should be Thistil Mistil Kistil. Can that be fixed? Reply

      You can use the WikiWord tool on the "More" menu to customize the display of the article so it uses the correct spacing and capitalization.
  • 3 Mar 26th, 2017 at 7:07AM
    Lastest Reply: 27th Mar, 2017 09:02:58 PM
    I was told by flamemario12 that there should be no metagame example of the page Difficult But Awesome but the entire page is mentioning about competitive play. Isn't that going against the point of the page? Reply

      'Meta game' usually means general example. General examples are verboten.

      Courtesy Link: Difficult but Awesome

      General examples could, in theory, belong in the description, but you want to ask the Trope Description Improvement Drive before doing that. Changing a trope's description without consensus will generally land you in trouble. That said, the metagame of one specific game will probably not gain consensus to put in the description.

      I actually meant to say no metagame example for Pokemon, not the entire page. My bad, I made my edit reason too vague. Still, there are instances where people rewrites example in a more neutral matter even outside of the Pokemon page itself.

      Also, if you want to post anything related to the Pokemon metagame, go to {{Website//Smogon}} instead.
  • 4 Mar 26th, 2017 at 2:02PM
    Lastest Reply: 27th Mar, 2017 06:56:07 PM
    I was trying to insert an entry which contained a link to Wikipedia with a special character.

    This is the literal link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A9_Hazes

    And this is how I put it in the entry: André Hazes.

    The problem is, if you click on the link, you get to a "Bad Title" page on Wikipedia". If I copy-paste the link directly in my browser address bar, it does work. I think it's the special character that's the problem.

    How to work around this? Reply

      use unicode shortcuts, instead: "ampersand hashtag 233 semicolon", change words to symbols. this will provide the right character without the problems. Example: é


      So you can use this method to make a link, I made the é in that link with the above method, no spaces before or after the encoding. (But I'm British, I can just press Alt Gr and the "e" key.)

      Wikipedia may also provide plain-ASCII redirects in such cases, which you can use instead of the normal one. Our software is really bad at handling extended characters.

      Thanks, I got it to work using a Unicode character with Ctr+Shift+U.

      The specific issue, in case anyone's wondering, is that wiki code also uses the % sign to mark commented-out text, and the current version of the parser is seeing the percentage signs in the URL and commenting part of it out.
  • 4 Mar 27th, 2017 at 11:11AM
    Web Original
    Lastest Reply: 27th Mar, 2017 01:07:29 PM
    The BBC and a few other organs have carried this story recently, about large scale production of youtube videos which emulate "Peppa Pig" and other children's cartoons but which are fake and, for whatever reason, riddled with terrifying imagery - a knock-off Peppa Pig episode involving an unpleasant and graphic dental operation for instance. Does anyone know why this has been created, whether it is described here, Know Your Meme, or anywhere else? https://theoutline.com/post/1239/youtube-has-a-fake-peppa-pig-problem Reply

      Are you suggesting this is a trope? I'd like to hope not, and we would not want articles for that kind of shock content anyway. We expressly do not want "hot off the press" memes documented here. It's not our purpose.

      It doesn't really qualify as a trope, it's just an extremely bizarre news article that tropers might be able to share insight on. I can't comprehend the motivation behind spending time devising this sort of thing with the apparent purpose of traumatizing children; however, it is interesting as well as horrific, and if there is a historical precedent for this, then tropers are the people to know.

      That sounds like something for the forums. Ask The Tropers is more for questions about the wiki.

      Yeah, it's a forum topic. Ask The Tropers is for questions about the wiki.
  • 1 Mar 27th, 2017 at 12:12PM
    Lastest Reply: 27th Mar, 2017 12:36:19 PM
    what is the TV trope for children of the original main characters being the stars of the new show? Reply
  • 6 Mar 27th, 2017 at 6:06AM
    Live Action TV
    Lastest Reply: 27th Mar, 2017 12:16:42 PM
    Here's an odd one: troper TJack has added triple parentheses to a lot of people's names to the QI page for no apparent reason. With more than 50 instances of it throughout the page, I'd like to request a revert. Reply

      Reverted. Is that some kind of Wikimedia markup?

      No, no idea where it came from...

      I hope it has nothing to do with this, but since Stephen Fry and Ronni Ancona are of Jewish descent, and David Mitchell is married to someone of Jewish descent, it probably does.

      Believe it or not, it's anti-semitism/the 'alt right'.. The purpose is that ((())) is used to identify Jews, eg (((Daniel Radcliffe))), (((Stephen Fry))). The work of a racist with time on his hands.

      Oh, for fuck's sake. Suspended, edit history checked for anymore of that crap.

      Hate speech is an instant bounce, no questions asked. Tossed 'em.