• 5 Jun 25th, 2016 at 7:07PM
    Lastest Reply: 25th Jun, 2016 11:11:49 PM
    Is there any easy way to see the inbound links to a trope I made? Reply

      Use the URL http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/relatedsearch.php?term=Main/TropeName. The "this article has brought X people to the wiki from non-search engine links" is the inbound count.

      Yes, but is there any way to see what the links say about the trope itself? I'm pretty sure there used to be a tool which let you see that.

      There used to be a way to see what pages the inbounds were from, but it was removed after some people started to add TV Tropes links to their websites in order to increase their search engine rankings.

      Really? Too bad, I really want to see what the inbounds say...

      Is there no third-party tool?

      To acquire this information without hacking the server, you will need to crawl the entire web. Google does that. Maybe they have a tool.

      Also: Which sites did people visit immediately before this site?
      1. google.com 22.7%
      2. youtube.com 8.6%
      3. reddit.com 3.8%
      4. wikipedia.org 3.6%
      5. facebook.com 2.8%

      Also: What sites link to tvtropes.org? Total Sites Linking In 13,134
  • 0 Jun 25th, 2016 at 10:10PM
    Recently, a sprite sheet for Garou: Mark of the Wolves 2 has been revealed. (http://www.eventhubs.com/imagegallery/2016/jun/24/garou-mark-wolves-2-sprites/1/) I was thinking of adding it as an example under Development Hell in the Fatal Fury trivia subpage, but I'm not if that would work. I don't want this to slip by, though. Reply
  • 1 Jun 25th, 2016 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 25th Jun, 2016 09:55:32 PM
    OpalGarnet16 doesn't seem to have any idea how to make proper edits. The one page they made is still currently full of Natter, ZC Es, and misused tropes, despite my and valozzy's edits to try to fix it. Reply

      The Tearjerker page was a mess, too. I fixed the formatting (or tried to) but it's also since been cut since it was made by the creator of the work (a fact I hadn't picked up on myself).
  • 1 Jun 25th, 2016 at 9:09PM
    Lastest Reply: 25th Jun, 2016 09:53:35 PM
    I think it was an anime show but back when I was 6 or 7 or 8 or something like that so the early 2000s there was a show I watched all I can remember is there was a black haired girl that would fight monsters she wasn't a big super hero or anything I think she wore like a black leather suit and I remember there was a scene with a room and those big like test tube things that had all kinds of different mutants or monsters or something I them I would really like to know what this show is please help me????? Reply
  • 6 Jun 24th, 2016 at 11:11PM
    Lastest Reply: 25th Jun, 2016 09:18:43 PM
    I've always wondered, if a character does something abhorrent and commits suicide to escape punishment or for an unrelated reason before they face any form of retribution would they qualify as a Karma Houdini? The way I see it they get to die (most likely painlessly) on their own terms, and unless the medium established that there's a Hell or something similar to punish them afterwards, they escape punishment. I haven't seen any examples that cite this a reason, and I'd hate to add one that doesn't qualify. Reply

      Sorry, suicide does not count as getting away scot-free.

      Thanks for the clarification.

      I'd qualify that. If by suiciding they are planning to move on to a second life they choose and achieve it, that would be a KH.

      Almost happened in a couple stories I read, but the good guys took steps, preventing a KH.

      The trope Suicide Is Shameful could apply

      A possible example of achieving a desired afterlife might be Makoto Shishio of Rurouni Kenshin, he tried to incite war in Japan, killed many, died in the process of fighting Kenshin (though not suicide). The last we see of him he's in hell with his Femme Fatale and deciding "Hey, y'know what, this place is awesome, let's take it over."

      Or any case where a character doesn't see death as a bad thing. For example, if a character is a Death Seeker and they wind up committing Suicide by Cop, that would be pretty houdini
  • 1 Jun 25th, 2016 at 5:05PM
    Live Action TV
    Lastest Reply: 25th Jun, 2016 05:45:35 PM
    There was a tv show around 2009 about 4-5 young adults living together in a loft. They each had some dream that they were trying to make happen. I remember there being a Latina character that got pregnant and had a baby, but she wanted to be a singer. I think she took a job as a bartender so that the owner of the bar would let her perform there sometimes.

    I can't remember much else. Hope y'all can because it's killing me. Reply
  • 6 Jun 24th, 2016 at 6:06AM
    Lastest Reply: 25th Jun, 2016 05:45:08 PM
    In the Sailor Moon Villains entry on Sailor Galaxia, it says that the trope Heel–Face Turn applies to her. However, it's a zero-context example. I want to elaborate on it, but I don't know what to say. What do you think I should say? Reply

      Basically explain how/why she pulls one.

      ^I know that. But what exactly should I say? I've watched the anime and I've seen the manga, but I've still got nothing.

      I don't know the first thing about Sailor Moon (Technically I do, but ignore that.) Tell me exactly what I need to know to be convinced that the heel face turn actually happened. When did it happen? What did she do?

      1) Why was she a villain?

      2) Why did she realize she was wrong?

      3) What did she say/do that showed she knew she was wrong?

      4) Did she try to do anything to pay back the debt her evil racked up? If so, how?

      ^I don't know. That's the problem.

      ^Galaxia is possessed by a Greater Scope Villain and her goodness was separated from her, so that's one reason she's a villain.
  • 7 Jun 24th, 2016 at 7:07AM
    Lastest Reply: 25th Jun, 2016 04:04:46 PM
    Found the page VideoGame.Updated, which seem to be an unpublished work. Can't find any external information about the game in question outside this page, so I guess it should be moved to the Darth Wiki? Reply

      You should send the creator a message before doing anything drastic like a move to Darth Wiki.

      Well, the last edit on that page was last year, so I didn't think the troper in question would still be active. Anyway, message sent.

      Strangely, we have a page for Harvest Moon Updated as well.

      ^ It's made by the same troper and is basically a duplicate to the other page.

      The article is written in future tense.

      It will be based around the Harvest Moon franchise. This game will probably involve time stopping indoors, no friendship decay, a simpler farming system, and more! The game is supposed to be like older Harvest Moon games.

      I'm thinking Unpublished Works.

      If they're duplicates, one should be removed. But definitely move them to Darth Wiki.

  • 1 Jun 25th, 2016 at 10:10AM
    Live Action TV
    Lastest Reply: 25th Jun, 2016 11:30:21 AM
    I need help from the Tropers. I am working on a video learning course for 12-14 year olds. I am using clips from movies, television to illustrate a concept. I am looking for some scenes that show a character expressing some old feelings that have been locked up in emotional baggage. The emotional baggage can be old or new. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Reply

      Please take this question to the Forums. Thank you.
  • 1 Jun 25th, 2016 at 11:11AM
    Western Animation
    Lastest Reply: 25th Jun, 2016 11:28:38 AM
    I NEED help figuring out why a song in Phineas and Ferb's Summer Belongs to You seems so familiar. There seems to be something that is being referenced in the song Summer Belongs to You. In particular, it's something about the part where Candance sings "Now there's something that I've got to say out loud/ Time is what you make of it, so take a chance" and etc. and everyone is clapping to the beat. Phineas puts in little comments like "That's what I'm talking about!" too, but I'm not sure if that's what's making this part seem so familiar. it's just something about the beat, clapping, and how the part is almost her trying to give out her lesson in song. Further, at the "The world's a stage and it's time for your debuuut," the way the music rises and the beat leads to the "debuuut" just seems so familiar.

    Is this some kind of "musical trope" (in the sense that it's a musical style/beat that many songs reference and use)? What song am I thinking about/Where have I heard this before? In almost the same way that you hear "Thus Spake Zarathustra" in strong openings, and it sounds familiar, I get a sort of similar feel about this song. Reply
  • 20 Jun 23rd, 2016 at 6:06PM
    Lastest Reply: 24th Jun, 2016 10:10:04 PM
    I received this message from My Final Edits about my edit on http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/Starfox :

    "So now you decided to trigger an Edit War, didn't you? It was removed because it's a piece of complaining. And don't tell me that it's not a complaint, because the connotation of your edit is very clear. ALL that matters is that Fox played the trope in question in that game. There's no need to write a long rant against the game for being a Dolled Up Installment and accusing the play of the trope as an Ass Pull. Also, linking to Character Derailment is prohibited for being Flame Bait. Is there a reason why I shouldn't report you to Ask The Tropers for this? Because edit-warring is a bannable offense."

    The page's edit history clearly shows what I posted: everything I posted there was true. Reply

      Being true does not exclude the possibility of flame bait. But I'll look at it.

      You are edit warring, so that part is accurate, and he is right that you're going off on a tangent about how it's not a true Star Fox game. If you really want to show that it's unique to that installment, you only need to say something to the effect of "This trait isn't shown in other installments."

      It wasn't shown in that installment, either. Since the page exists to explain the nature of the characters, I think it's very important to clarify such things and explain the reasons behind them.

      As far as I can tell, everything said in that PM is true, too: you were edit-warring and complaining; edit-warring is a bannable offense, and Character Derailment is prohibited from being listed on work pages (there's a big header on the page saying just that). And yet, despite it's truth, you seem to object to the PM for some reason...maybe because something being "true" doesn't necessarily keep it from being inflammatory/inappropriate/etc.?

      Regardless of whether your addition was appropriate or not, edit-warring is still against the rules—the Edit War page has a list of what you should do to resolve conflicts without hashing it out on the wiki pages.

      Yeah, what they said. No matter how poorly worded the PM was. Please delete the problem filled sentence yourself.

      It had already been deleted.

      I read the page on Edit Wars. In this situation, I don't see how any of that could have possibly helped. It was a mistake for me to use Character Derailment on the trope page, but everything else I posted was neither untrue nor an exaggeration.

      Again, "neither untrue nor an exaggeration" does not mean it belongs on the wiki or in any specific example. Being true is a bare minimum criterion meaning it might belong, if it is also relevant and written according to wiki standards and not violating any wiki rules.

      If your definition of "helping" is facilitating you doing what you want regardless of wiki rules, then no, it wouldn't have helped. If, on the other hand, you want to be a constructive contributor to the wiki, then following the guidelines on Edit War would have helped you get clarification from the TV Tropes community and/or mods whether or not your edit was appropriate. If your edit were deemed appropriate, having that consensus would give you the justification to add it back and would force the other troper to either back off or risk banning for edit-warring. If deemed inappropriate, then you would have found this out before you risked a ban by engaging in edit-warring yourself.

      Using the Character Derailment and Ass Pull links and reverting the edit without asking the Tropers first were definite mistakes on my part.

      However, everything I posted aside that are facts, easily supported by even light research.

      You are correct. Given the mistakes you made, and the inflammatory nature of that sentence, My Final Edits was correct in removing the sentence from the page, and telling you not to add it back again and why.

      You only added true information (as far as I know).

      Aside from my mistakes, how was the sentence any more inflammatory than any other discussion of a continuity problem, such as a Plot Hole or Continuity Snarl? Listing the event as an Out-of-Character Moment wouldn't fit either, because he didn't actually behave in any unusual fashion, despite the comment.

      I don't know if that was inflammatory, but it was far removed from the actual scope of the Trigger Happy trope.

      All disputed edits are to be discussed. Right or wrong, you hit a greater level of wrong the minute you edit war on this site.

      You also aren't supposed to share P Ms without both parties' consent. Maybe. It's a privacy thing. The only thing that overrides that is if the mods needs to take a look.

      True or not, it's completely irrelevant, and everything in the PM is entirely true. He's not threatening you, he's warning you.

      And seriously, you've been around long enough to realize that YMMV items don't go on the main page. Or to realize that that example is Not a Subversion.

      Just a nitpick. But YMMV can go on the main page, if it is In-Universe or Invoked by the work itself. That is the only except, however.

      I already admitted my mistake in listing YMMV tropes on the page. However, the non-YMMV tropes I used are all accurate to the situation. In addition, there wasn't any discussion of my edit at all, until I posted here.

      I decided to wait prudently for the other tropers' opinions before sharing my side of the story, because fortunately most of it is being settled and only a few things have to be clarified.

      Originally, I removed Mark's edit on Trigger Happy because most of it was Complaining. It is true that the trope only occurs on Fox in this game due to the latter's nature for having a drastic Unexpected Gameplay Change. However, the reasoning that the trope is "subverted" because it's not really applying to Fox and it's all to fit the game's different genre and direction is incorrect (and I also have doubts on it being an Informed Ability, but for now I'm not focusing on that). Games that are Dolled Up Installments, unless declared eventually Canon Discontinuity, are still canon, thus so are the tropes displayed in it; if nothing else, they at least exist for that game in particular even if it's not present in the core series otherwise. So there's no need to point out why it doesn't happen in the other games, let alone in a derisive way. I accept Mark's apologies about that, I'm just mentioning it to clarify the other point.

      There are cases when describing the justification of a trope is helpful (Justified Trope is a thing, after all). But one has to be very careful on exactly what kind of justification we're talking about here. Genuine Justified Tropes pertain only to how to better understand the origin of said trope and the reason why it's invoked; if the "justification" is simply to attack (fairly rare, but this current case happens to be in this category), defend (edits that start with "to be fair", "in fairness", etc.) or contest its mere presence, then it's only a Justifying Edit, which is inappropiate.

      I wasn't "justifying" any trope at all. In fact, the trope is not actually used in the game itself in any way: the only thing we have to go on is Pepper's spoken comment, which doesn't fit Fox's behavior in any installment in the franchise, including that very game. For that reason, it certainly qualifies as an Informed Attribute. (Not ability: we know Fox is a PMC so he can shoot before thinking, but he never does.)

      Alright, my bad; in that case, just state that Pepper thinks Fox fits the trope even though he doesn't, and is shown to be an Informed Attribute. Don't bring in the whole Dolled-Up Installment aspect at all, because that only invites trouble. Controversial as the game might be, there's no need to add fuel to fire regarding its status in a simple trope entry.

      Check the history, the entry under Trigger Happy already mentioned that it is an Informed Attribute before MarkWilder changed it.
  • 3 Jun 24th, 2016 at 12:12AM
    Lastest Reply: 24th Jun, 2016 09:30:14 PM
    The page for Man v. Food features this description under National Stereotypes: To people outside the USA, this show tends to reinforce the idea that a goodly proportion of Americans are morbidly obese waddling gutbuckets. Given that the normal food serving is several times larger than comparable eateries in Europe - even before Adam gets onto the food challenge super-dupa-mega American Excess-style serving, this is not unreasonable. Those Americans trying to challenge the stereotype that most citizens are visibly obese have an extra hill to climb, now that this show is seen widely in Europe. While the show is indeed about a heavyset American man indulging in giant portions of food for challenges, this description seems a little out of place, not very informative as much as it is a personal opinion about the show. I don't know, maybe it's the phrase "morbidly obese waddling gutbuckets" that bothers me. Do you think the Trope should stay there, or should it get the boot? Reply

      Sounds like speculation. Boot it as tropes on the main page must be objective and not based on guesswork.

      Second booting that. Opinions do not go on main pages. We have YMMV and reviews for that.

      Taken care of now, it's outta there.
  • 1 Jun 24th, 2016 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 24th Jun, 2016 09:14:09 PM
    All of daisyme's edits have been adding links to a website Reply

      Huh, looks like this is behavior that popped briefly in February 2015 and wasn't caught. Bounced and reverted the edits.
  • 3 Jun 24th, 2016 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 24th Jun, 2016 09:06:05 PM
    The Tropes for http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Fanfic/PokemonOpalandGarnet#close are not showing up as Blue Links, please help!!! Also, why can't I create a Tear Jerker/Heartwarming subpage? Reply
  • 13 Jun 21st, 2016 at 2:02PM
    Lastest Reply: 24th Jun, 2016 07:32:39 PM
    The Buddy 26 removed some tropes in Inuniverse Examples Only. Any discussion about this? Reply

      His removal of Not So Different seems appropriate, as that trope does have a Real Life section and does not have a "No Real Life" tag on its page. Unless I am getting this backwards and Not So Different should be In-Universe Only and for some reason hasn't been cleaned up as such.

      Less sure about Scandal Gate, which does have the latter.

      He also added a line about real life examples being fine for some of those, unless it's specified otherwise. I'm still not sure whether having real life examples of tropes that are supposed to be In-Universe only makes sense or not. At first I thought that meant that listing critics opinions and such was allowed on some of those tropes, but after a quick browse, that doesn't seem to be the case.

      ^ Not So Different could be IUEO in that it should only count as an example if the resemblance is pointed out within the work. If tropers were misusing it by adding works where the similarities between two groups or character existed but were not mentioned and were based on the viewer's opinion, then it belongs on the page.

      Reading through the Real Life section of that trope, I'm thinking that it should be limited to In Universe Examples if it isn't already supposed to be, if only because some of those examples are unsupported, biased and/or downright stupid. That subtitles example... yuck.

      Also, doesn't the trope require the similarities to be made very clear by the work, usually with the characters themselves realizing it?

      Most tropes it does not make sense to make in universe examples only, because they are inherently in universe tropes. I think Not So Different is one of these.

      Some people are dingbats. If it's not clearly labeled, they'll ask 'but why can't I do that?' They're the reason why a school will have a no underwear showing rule and a no bra strap showing rule.

      Seems like an issue that should be sorted out by discussion.

      Based in the replies, i guess this was an unilateral deletion.

      Well, i opened a discussion about this in the discussion page. Must the tropes be readded to the list until the end of the discussion, considering that this was an unilateral deletion?

      I don't see any reason to permit someone to remove tropes from that article without discussion. Put them back. It's not an edit war unless he deletes them again.

      IUEO is not an ordinary article. Otherwise I'd agree. It sounds like some of the tropes were never IUEO to begin with.

      I've reverted all of the changes.

      Both those tropes went to TRS to discuss IUEO. Scandal Gate was successfully voted IUEO. Unless there was another TRS afterwards, it is IUEO.

      Not So Different stalled without a vote and no other form of resolution was reached. It was never IUEO.
  • 19 Jun 20th, 2016 at 11:11AM
    Lastest Reply: 24th Jun, 2016 06:27:32 PM
    Is the latest trope depiction on the front page even SFW? It shows an alien woman... uh... doing something to Captain Kirk with her tentacles that's very clearly sprouting from her underside, and he later ends up pregnant. Uh...

    @_@ Reply

      Oh dear, that is unfortunate and deeply NSFW. I thought that sort of thing had gone from the wiki during the Google incidents.

      This is far from the first complaint about Twisted Tropes. I think I remember at least one other comic (the Alf one?) getting pulled too.

      What's the content policy for trope depictions? I really, really don't like images like this one being the first thing newcomers see, even though it might be fine on other parts of the site.

      I don't see any harm in the comic as it stands. I would like to see what others think before providing the artist with feedback. This comic would not cause an issue like the google issue of the past.

      Th alf comic was not pulled, it was just replaced by a more recent entry.

      Ah, you're right, the Alf comic wasn't pulled, it was just buried because three(?) comics were added in a very short amount of time. I check the homepage often, and I don't remember the comics for You Sexy Beast or Convection Schmonvection.

      We are going to work on developing more concrete guidelines for the trope depictions in the near future so the community can be more informed.

      I've said before that as far as I'm concerned, until some guidelines are implemented the trope depictions are an utter disaster. Twisted Tropes seems to be the worst offender by far, but I'm less concerned about it specifically then I am that there doesn't seem to be any oversight in general.

      There has always been oversight, but I agree with you that guidelines need to be published. We will produce guidelines and communicate the intent of the section very soon. I do not believe the new feature is an "utter disaster" nor do I feel that Twisted Tropes is doing anything outside of the scope of what the guidelines will state in the future.

      Stay tuned for more official policies and guidelines regarding the Trope Depositions and any discussion that will follow.

      While I doubt every person coming to TV Tropes sees the front page first thing, particularly if following a link to a trope, I know this one is getting a lot of views. It's on the FB page as the image for bizarre alien reproduction.

      It's the middle panel that's problematic.

      Yeah, seriously. I don't think this is an utter disaster, but anyone who sees that comic and thinks SFW http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png , is blind to this sort of thing. It is bizarrely under regulated.

      For what it's worth, by "utter disaster" I mean less any individual image than how poorly the feature - a feature on the front page, no less - has been implemented in general. I think Twisted Tropes is tacky and unfunny, but what really annoys me is the apparent lack of control anyone has over its presence.

      Three days later, and that dirty comic is still on the front page.

      It was the same thing last time (the Alf comic) — lots of complaints here, but absolutely no action for weeks. It seems the site admins either think both these comics are OK, or they just don't care about the impression the front page makes on new visitors.

      I don't mind the trope depiction thing on principle, but yeah, this particular entry is really pushing the boundaries of what's appropriate to post on the front page.

      How long do these comics stay up?

      Dear Mr. Green, under Fast Eddie it was emphasised that we should have PG-13 content or below only. The British equivalent to that 12A, which is a child over 12 or a child under 12 accompanied by an adult. That cartoon contains content similar to what Naughty Tentacles was removed for, so you can see why we are concerned about this. It may not be long before someone complains to our advertisers again about such depictions.

      ^^ I believe trope depictions comics are forever. You can flip backwards on them using the navigation buttons. The newest one is the first visible.

      Looks like a new comic has replaced it. Can this be closed, please?

      If it is, a Wiki Talk thread or something should be created, because I'm not really seeing anything being done to resolve the underlying issue.
  • 1 Jun 24th, 2016 at 4:04AM
    Lastest Reply: 24th Jun, 2016 04:50:47 AM
    Not sure where else to post this, but where/how can deliberate redlinks be requested? There are certain former tropes on the Ambiguity Index that could be fixed more effectively if wicks were to show up red to both prevent continued troping and ongoing wick clean-ups/disambiguation efforts. These include Badass, Opera Gloves, History Marches On, Blondes Are Evil, and Fail O'Suckyname. Reply

      Currently, fake redlinks can only be instituted by the admins, not mods, and it'd go at the end of a long queue of higher priorities.
  • 1 Jun 23rd, 2016 at 11:11PM
    Lastest Reply: 24th Jun, 2016 12:53:15 AM
    I noticed that JR Evans edit in Critical Research Failure changed "Great Depression" to "Clutch Plague". I did a quick search and the same thing happened with M Saika 96 's edit here and atyxyt's edit here.


      Suspended the first and last troper, the second one should be messaged as the edit is old.
  • 1 Jun 23rd, 2016 at 11:11PM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2016 11:22:32 PM
    Xhaihengo 1718Z's edits in the character page of Family Guy. He's deleting many examples without explanation, pretty much all the "negative" tropes of the characters, changing other examples to "the characters are always good and nice!", and adding tropes that don't even exist like "Comedy Genius" and "The Sympathetic Comedy Protagonist". Can someone revert his edits? Reply
  • 1 Jun 23rd, 2016 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2016 08:55:15 PM
    Is there a trope for a puzzle in video games this? There are numerous rooms connected by doors, some colored red and some colored blue. Hitting a switch opens the red doors but closes the blue doors and vice-versa, and the player has to navigate through the rooms opening and closing the doors to proceed. I know about Magical Mystery Doors but I'm not sure if that's appropriate for this kind of puzzle since it seems more like a maze of identical rooms than a puzzle about opening and closing doors in a pattern. Reply
  • 8 Jun 22nd, 2016 at 2:02PM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2016 04:00:35 PM

    Forenperser added an "example" of Vindicated by History about how the game was critically acclaimed when it came out, but now people realize that it's not perfect and that the game has several flaws. I removed it because that's literally the exact opposite of being vindicated; they then readded the same text as a "mild example" of Deader Than Disco instead. I hadn't removed it again because it's already at the edit war stage, but I did make a post on the discussion page about how it's still not an example. Mr Death then removed it while I was typing this out (which I agree with but I didn't want to do because of the edit war thing). Reply

      Not an edit war, blatant shoehorning by Forenperser, Deader Than Disco requires something to laughed at or hated when it was acclaimed or popular when it first came out, not "be a bit less perfect than people thought." There is no such thing as a "mild example" of Deader Than Disco, which itself is being looked at by a cleanup thread.

      Allow me to repeat what I said on the discussion page:

      Your reaction doesn't fit with a lot of the examples on the various pages.

      For example, Avatar, Erin Brocovitch, and other films which still have strong fanbase are listed as examples. A crosswick has Street Fighter II (the most beloved game in the franchise) as an example, and I've also seen Beavis and Butthead and Rugrats listed as examples. The first examples on the anime page are Bleach, Inu Yasha, and Gundam Wing.

      ALL of these shows/films still have their fans, which means either the description is overly inflated with negativity terminology, we are interpreting the negativity incorrectly, or we have MASSIVE amounts of misuse to deal with.

      Hell, even the trope namer no longer applies. Robin Thicke's Blurred Lines was a modern disco song and immensely popular. Justin Timberlake and Daft Punk make contemporary disco as well.

      Then the problem is with those examples. If there's still a strong fanbase, then it's not Deader Than Disco, full stop. Either that or the description needs to be changed, but "thing is less popular than it used to be" isn't really notable—that applies to the vast majority of works.

      But we have the polar opposite of that in Vindicated by History.

      Sticking to works and series instead of genres and trends:

      Vindicated by History = Something that was unpopular or considered poor-to-mediocre by critics and audiences back in the day is now widely praised (even if sometimes only because the creator did something to improve it). Or maybe was well received but was mostly forgotten until something caused it to gain some popularity again. Examples - Fight Club, Moby Dick.

      Deader than Disco = Something that was well liked or popular in its day is now met with widespread derision (or at least considered mediocre by a sizable population, is considered uncool, or remains largely ignored and forgotten even by people interested in similar forms of media. A lot of them will still have fans, but most people will be surprised if you list it among your favorites, and the works and its fans are made fun of regularly. Examples - Signs, some of the early Image Comics.

      I can't see how Mass Effect 2 fits. I'm not part of the Mass Effect fandom, but I believe it's still the best regarded in the franchise, and I don't think it's been "replaced" by anything better in the eyes of its intended audience. Also, all of the flaws mentioned in the removed example have been brought up since release. I don't agree with the idea that everyone should dislike something or only like it ironically, but in general it shouldn't be something that many people still praise.

      @King Zeal - You're absolutely right: we have MASSIVE amounts of misuse to deal with. And we've got a cleanup thread where we're trying to do just that: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=14654177060A30520700

      As for the actual entry being discussed, from the Deader Than Disco page:

      The final tell-tale sign is when ridicule, or even hatred, comes not just for the thing itself, but for its fans. They become the subject of nasty, highly-specific stereotypes, and gushing about how you like it online is considered trolling. Ten years later, almost nobody will admit that they ever liked it, and the only mention in the media will be cheap jokes about the fad.

      None of that applies to Mass Effect 2 in any way shape or form.

      In that case, please make sure someone notes all of the examples I mentioned above.

      They seriously had me believing incorrectly about the trope's meaning.

      We'll direct the cleanup thread to here if you want them to read your post.
  • 2 Jun 23rd, 2016 at 12:12PM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2016 03:56:04 PM

    Began as an accidental edit-war, but all parties have come to the discussion so I don't think it's worth pursuing that. But we could use more commentary on whether or not "controversy" is worth noting on this Useful Notes page. Most people think it's off-message and runs the risk of importing drama, other people think it's worth noting.

    Thoughts? Reply

      We specifically do not want "hot off the press" controversies. Useful Notes articles are to help people write accurately about a topic, not to be Wikipedia... or Reddit, for that matter.

      Can you do it without causing a flame war? This is why I disagreed with listing the shooting on the article in the other thread on the topic.

      If you don't list the controversies, then maybe we don't have to lock the page.
  • 4 Jun 23rd, 2016 at 9:09AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2016 03:48:20 PM
    Several Toy lines from the LEGO franchise use themselves the Franchise/ namespace, which I think is a misuse since they don't branch to various other work pages, but concentrate all the tropes on their pages.

    They are BIONICLE, Hero Factory, Ninjago and Legends of Chima.

    Under which namespaces should they go? The last too are mostly about the animated series, so they could fit under WesternAnimation/. Most could fit in Toys/ anyway. Reply

      Bionicle can probably stay as-is because movies and video games for it exist. Not sure about the others.

      It doesn't just need three media types. -it needs three pages on this site to use the Franchise namespace.

      If there are three pages, have at it.

      None of them have three pages under another namespace; all the content is on the Franchise pages. That's why I talked about misuse.

      If they are toy lines, the go in the toys namespace. If they have associated franchises, the toy line is linked from the franchise disambig page.
  • 12 Jun 22nd, 2016 at 9:09AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2016 03:34:17 PM
    Do the reports about the expensive out-of-print Disney VHS tapes really deserve a mention on Creator.Walt Disney Home Video? To me, it just sounds like a scam that the public might forget eventually, if they haven't already. I think that paragraph should stay only if the page really needs an example of how valuable these tapes have become. Reply

      Wow, that page is a mess.

      What do you advise for improving it?

      Don't know how the page is a mess, but I don't think the eBay thing really warrants mentioning on the page.

      I think I've brought up the problems with Walt Disney Home Video in the past, namely:
      • Why does this have its own namespace anyway? This is even worse than the Madman Entertainment namespace, which I've also commented on in the past.
      • Is the page name supposed to be "Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment", or is "...Home Video" a generic term?
      • The master release of collections should probably be grouped by years 0-9, not years 9-8. (e.g. 1989 and earlier, 1990-1999, 2000-2009, 2010-2019)
      • The other subpages go into waaaay too much detail, and could probably just be reduced into indexes.
      • The "Sale Promotions" section is completely unnecessary.

      Well, I tried letting someone who's edited these pages for longer than I have know that I've found it kind of strange that they run so much longer than other home video companies' pages, but he/she just replied that information about Disney seems easier to find.

      I went and carried out your suggestions to remove "Sales Promotions" (something I myself have wondered the point of, since no one seemed interested in adding more information to it) and change the years. As for the part about the subpages having too much information...I've wanted to trim each entry down, but that sounds like something that needs the other Troper's consent, and I can't tell whether or not he/she seems willing to partake in a discussion like this. On a side note, do you mind him/her duplicating some of the information to certain Disney movies' Trivia pages?

      Is there an issue with this in any way?

      Read the previous comments and see for yourself.

      Though if by "this", you only mean the scam, then that discussion seems to have ended. Would you mind if I shared my idea for trimming the entries in another thread?

      Sure. I wasn't the one who posted the information about the overpriced tapes on the main page. I don't know who did.

      I personally think it looks ok. It's a good detailed history of Disney.

      You might want to get Hive Mind consensus on big changes, but you do not need that specific troper's permission to do anything. No troper owns a work page, even if they created the work.

      I started a thread in Short Term Projects about trimming these pages down to just the most important facts: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=14667207060A80221700&page=1#1