Ask The Tropers

Appeals to the troper hivemind...

If you want to propose a new trope, use YKTTW; if you're looking for a particular trope, try Lost And Found. For a discussion on a particular topic, head over to the Forum instead.

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Show only:
Blueblur21
Medium:
07:04:23 PM 20th Oct 2014
There's a problem. In Word of Gay, WITCH has Nerrisa and Cassidy as well as Irma as lesbians. This is not true and no source has ever been found for this statement. Not in the series and not on the forums. Greg Wiesman has not commented on this subject and there has been no instances of it in canon. I am wondering just where these entries are coming from.
see/hide 12 replies  
Tarlonniel
07:48:37 PM 19th Oct 2014
A troper named London Kd S added that statement. You could try sending a PM to ask where they got their information.
Blueblur21
07:49:54 PM 19th Oct 2014
Okay. How do I do that if he doesn't have a page?
Nohbody
07:57:36 PM 19th Oct 2014
In the edit history, you can click on the editor's name to send a PM to them.

Or follow this link to do so. :P
Blueblur21
08:00:10 PM 19th Oct 2014
Done. I also removed the example because frankly, it was not true.
Irene
09:04:21 PM 19th Oct 2014
You should always wait for the reply and to see if his/her source was real. It might be true and you never knew of the source. Or it could be made up.
Blueblur21
09:09:40 PM 19th Oct 2014
More than likely, it was made up. I have been searching for evidence myself, and aside from a suggestive line in one of the episodes nothing else about the original post was true or had any type of merit. Greg Wiesman has never commented or acknowledged this topic at all, so he has not confirmed anything.
Blueblur21
12:02:18 AM 20th Oct 2014
edited by Blueblur21
Nevermind. I just read the whole thing. It was a Gargoyles panel. WITCH never came up.
TheOneWhoTropes
03:49:36 PM 20th Oct 2014
It was removed from the WITCH pages a while a go, after someone posted pretty much the same thing about the WITCH Characters page.
Blueblur21
05:20:33 PM 20th Oct 2014
That was a hoax, too. It also had no sources.
Candi
05:35:19 PM 20th Oct 2014
Is it the same person who added it back as originally posted? If so, the mods will want to give them a tap on the shoulder.
Blueblur21
06:00:42 PM 20th Oct 2014
I don't think so. This new guy gave me a source, even though it was fake.
Fighteer
moderator
07:04:23 PM 20th Oct 2014
I'll rate this as non-malicious, but we haven't hesitated to ban people in the past for knowingly posting false information.

close replies  

LogoP
Medium:
05:46:39 PM 20th Oct 2014
This troper has created a thread solely to ask other tropers to edit a page. While being edit banned herself.
see/hide 5 replies  
Fighteer
moderator
08:31:59 AM 20th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
I still haven't figured out why people think they need to report forum issues in Ask The Tropers. That's what the Hollers function is for. Anyway, dealt with.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
08:35:17 AM 20th Oct 2014
Ask The Tropers is more visible and interactive. You see folks getting banned (or not, as it may be), you see the reason and you see stuff happening. Hollers looks like a yellow triangle and not much else.
Fighteer
moderator
08:43:43 AM 20th Oct 2014
This is true. I'd like to have something put in so that Hollers can have an automated reply feature. "This was done", "this was declined", etc.
RoseAndHeather
09:16:51 AM 20th Oct 2014
Seconding Septimus. I tend to come to ATT just because I can get a visible response, as opposed to sending something off into the mysterious ether, possibly to get eaten by Data Vampires.
Candi
05:46:39 PM 20th Oct 2014
Is it at all possible to change the graphic for the Holler button? Maybe a tiny M or R, to give a better clue to its function?

close replies  

ryanasaurus0077
Medium:
05:36:49 PM 20th Oct 2014
Congratulations on becoming a full mod, Septimus Heap. What was that task you performed that got you up there, again?
see/hide 34 replies  
Fighteer
moderator
12:54:39 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
He's been on the "mod radar" for quite some time due to his dedicated work on the wiki and in TRS/IP. He had already been granted limited use of wiki tools like the reverter, and this was a natural progression. He graciously accepted our offer.
ryanasaurus0077
01:10:05 PM 17th Oct 2014
I guess that explains it.

But if anyone wants to offer a version for The Ancient Circle of Mods, I just happen to be in the mood to hear a tall tale take on it.
Fighteer
moderator
01:23:43 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
I suppose we could make up a story about how he conducted ritual sacrifices of banned tropers in a secret ceremony.
MyFinalEdits
01:29:21 PM 17th Oct 2014
Congrats to Septimus for reaching the 33rd degree. Best of luck in this new journey. =)
DracMonster
01:39:08 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by DracMonster
Congrats, long overdue!

But he's always so even tempered. I'm having trouble imagining what he's going to be like in "You have just pissed off the management" mode. :)
MrL1193
01:40:19 PM 17th Oct 2014
It was obvious this day would come; the only question was when. Congrats Septimus, and thank you for all your hard work on the wiki.
VeryMelon
02:31:53 PM 17th Oct 2014
Oh hey good on him.
RoseAndHeather
02:37:19 PM 17th Oct 2014
Oh look, the sun's risen in the east!

All joking aside, we all knew this day was coming, and with good reason. Well done, Septimus!
Bisected8
02:43:51 PM 17th Oct 2014
I thought I heard cheers coming from the Death Course's exit.

Congrats, Septimus.
Ramidel
02:52:03 PM 17th Oct 2014
And here I thought that Septimus had only stayed away from full mod duties because he was too busy with the engineering stuff.

Congrats, long overdue.
Irene
03:11:30 PM 17th Oct 2014
Congrats, Septimus! I wonder who else is about to be added.
Ultimatum
03:24:58 PM 17th Oct 2014
Congratulations!
Rotpar
03:57:33 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by Rotpar
Congratulations Septimus!

I know the blasphemous eldritch rites of moderatorhoodship! Tremble and heed these words!

  • 1. Humbling, humiliating nudity.
  • 2. Knowest thou which is a Heel-Face Turn and which is a Face-Heel Turn. Turneth thou as thy alignment requires.
  • 3. Be torn asunder in the Crucible of Darth Wiki. Become Wall Banged. Suffer a Dethroning Moment of Suck. Briefly become So Bad You're Horrible.
  • 4. Die. Everyone dies but moderators are reborn! If you are Killed Off for Real then Bad End.
  • 5. Go on the tedious quest for the McGuffin. Pick a Five-Man Band of veteran moderators. Beware for one is a Leeroy Jenkins and another a Token Evil Teammate. Try to guess which one, I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised.
  • 6. Learn the horrible secret of the McGuffin: it was friendship all along. Note: if the secret turns out to be "world peace" then you lose through no fault of your own. End.
  • 7. The dread Archive Binge. Decades of Doctor Who. A decade of Penny Arcade. Twenty James Bond films. There are many Long Runners, dive in. Become one with them. Argue on forums about them.
  • 8. Shocking Swerve! Heel-Face-Face-Heel back to thy original alignment!
  • 9. Read 1,000 random pages. Chop chop.
  • 10. Smite 1,000 sockpuppets. Collect 4,250 sockpuppet socks.
  • 11. Ascend to moderatorhood! Become be-crowned and claim thy throne. Good End!
PistolsAtDawn
04:02:37 PM 17th Oct 2014
(congradulations!)
Quietomega
05:18:30 PM 17th Oct 2014
Congrats!
Candi
05:30:07 PM 17th Oct 2014
Congratulations, Septimus! You totally deserve it. :)
LordXavius
06:53:32 PM 17th Oct 2014
Indeed, congratulations!
Karxrida
07:07:42 PM 17th Oct 2014
Congrats man!
mlsmithca
08:13:34 PM 17th Oct 2014
The only surprise is that it took this long. Good on yer, Septimus!
MorningStar1337
09:04:18 PM 17th Oct 2014
Somehow I knew he was destined for this. Congraduations
Kuruni
09:43:08 PM 17th Oct 2014
Congratulations, Septimus!

And now, your real battle has just be begun...I'm pretty sure you're fully aware that with great power comes great responsibility. ;)
Shaoken
10:50:54 PM 17th Oct 2014
Congrats, now you just have to pick out a mod hat and find the right time to show it to the world.
AnoBakaDesu
11:33:19 PM 17th Oct 2014
Looking at the whole slew of replies above, there is only one way to go: congratulations!
Komodin
11:42:52 PM 17th Oct 2014
Is it strange that I see it and thought, "Hey, this will help make the P5 work run even more efficiently"?

In all seriousness, though, congratulations on the promotion, Septimus. After all the work you've done here, you very much deserve it!
TheOneWhoTropes
12:40:05 AM 18th Oct 2014
Congratulations!
SeptimusHeap
moderator
01:47:43 AM 18th Oct 2014
Thanks, all! I'll probably archive this discussion line somewhere ... ideas where?
PistolsAtDawn
02:29:53 AM 18th Oct 2014
hm did you know that if you google "Septimus Heap Tvtropes" (i was looking for your troper page) the result you get is for Septimush Eap?

congratulations on the promotion Septimush!
SatoshiBakura
05:26:01 AM 18th Oct 2014
Congratulations! Now that you are a mod, you can ban people who screw with the site too much.
DracMonster
06:58:44 AM 18th Oct 2014
I for one welcome our new extraordinary overlord.
harryhenry
07:06:40 AM 18th Oct 2014
Suprised it took this long to make him a mod, considering how active he is! Anyway, congrats on becoming a mod Septimus Heap!
captainmarkle
05:30:39 AM 19th Oct 2014
I'm a bit late to the party, but congratulations, you've earned it!
ClockworkUniverses
09:23:59 AM 20th Oct 2014
Congrats! I've been meaning to ask: how do you find time to commit to the wiki? What's your occupation?
Irene
03:32:40 PM 20th Oct 2014
Now for the kicker, what will your Mod Hat Avatar be? :P
Candi
05:36:49 PM 20th Oct 2014
Maybe something along the lines of Telcontar's (which I find hilarious compared to his 'troper' avatar). :P

close replies  

Lyner
Medium:
04:56:34 PM 20th Oct 2014
silly question, which I'm sure will be answered quickly: how does one make a page for a series? I've been thinking I'd like to see one for the manga/anime Eden's Bowy, but I don't know how one makes one or requests one be made.
see/hide 1 replies  
Larkmarn
04:56:34 PM 20th Oct 2014
Go to Manga.Edens Bowy and start editing.

Make sure to index the page and everything.

close replies  

DAN004
Medium:
03:36:25 PM 20th Oct 2014
Uh, so do any examples (girls) in Short Tank really need to wear short shorts and tanktop? It is named after the two and yet the description focuses more on the girls' role, and not all examples have short shorts or tanktop in them.

I asked this cuz of this ykttw.
see/hide 17 replies  
Fighteer
moderator
05:01:57 AM 14th Oct 2014
I agree that Short Tank seems indistinguishable from that YKTTW idea.
lexicon
10:29:54 AM 14th Oct 2014
edited by lexicon
Despite the name Short Tank refers to a personality, not clothes. She's tomboyish instead of a straight up tomboy and she has attitude.
Fighteer
moderator
11:38:48 AM 14th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
Clothes are not a trope, though. The deliberate juxtaposition of clothing and personality is what makes a trope.

It's better to focus on the aspect of characterization that the clothing communicates rather than the clothing itself, or you have a ZCE magnet waiting to be born.
ryanasaurus0077
11:41:58 AM 14th Oct 2014
edited by ryanasaurus0077
Which, to my understanding, is what "Tank Top Tomboy" does. Juxtapose clothing and personality, that is.

ETA: In that case, I'd like to let the sponsor know.
Fighteer
moderator
11:52:58 AM 14th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
The idea behind the various Personal Appearance Tropes is that the appearance is a visual shorthand for the characterization. For them to work as tropes, however, examples must clearly spell out both aspects: the appearance and the characterization. Too many editors forget that.
rexpensive
03:21:23 PM 14th Oct 2014
From what I can tell Short Tank is strictly a personality and story role trope, named after a manner of dress, while the proposed trope is about a piece of clothing associated with a personality type (and gender).
Fighteer
moderator
03:30:25 PM 14th Oct 2014
I don't believe that the latter is a trope. It can be noted on Tomboy that tank tops are an archetypal clothing choice.
DAN004
04:09:39 PM 14th Oct 2014
Thing is, I wanna propose to change the trope name Short Tank through trs, but I was rejected. :P
DracMonster
04:15:38 PM 14th Oct 2014
edited by DracMonster
You'd have to show evidence of mass confusion and misuse. That one's been around a LOOOOONG time, so it's very, very unlikely a name change would go through.
DAN004
06:26:03 PM 14th Oct 2014
Technically, as far as description's intentions go, I don't see much misuse.

My issue is more in the title, and the fact that the clothing articles are ultimately unnecessary.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
12:47:29 AM 15th Oct 2014
Well, "it's not creating any problems" is a strong reason for not changing something. And threads started without evidence of a problem tend to bog down. Also, "clothing articles are ultimately unnecessary" is not true. Not at all.
ryanasaurus0077
01:21:02 AM 15th Oct 2014
So, shall we go ahead and Just Launch It Already?
SeptimusHeap
moderator
01:21:36 AM 15th Oct 2014
I'll look at the YKTTW, wait a moment.
DAN004
02:02:35 AM 15th Oct 2014
So how would we differentiate that ykttw and Short Tank?

It may not create problems before, but again, because of that ykttw, I sense the potential of confusion.
Larkmarn
05:45:14 AM 15th Oct 2014
So... it got launched. But it seems like there's still concerns over whether a merge is necessary. Just thought I'd bring it up.
rexpensive
11:22:23 AM 16th Oct 2014
I think it is a valid costuming trope. Costuming/ appearance trope do have problems in general b/c people... well I am going to stop there before I get too negative but my point is that the trope is still valid.
DAN004
03:36:25 PM 20th Oct 2014
Bump?

close replies  

SolipSchism
Medium:
01:31:34 PM 20th Oct 2014
edited by SolipSchism
Another question here caught my attention as I don't want to get myself in trouble.

Point 9 on Administrivia.TV Tropes Customs under Editing The Wiki Proper says, "It is perfectly permissible to ... wholesale remove examples that are incorrect or violate a wiki policy like Zero-Context Example without anyone's permission, although you should leave an edit reason and note on the discussion page." I've been interpreting that as "Delete Zero-Context Examples whenever you see them," and thus that's what I've been doing (albeit with edit descriptions).

I hadn't actually read the Zero-Context Example page until now, where it says instead that ZCEs should be "moved to that page's discussion space, or, if this represents a much bigger problem throughout an entire page, brought to attention in this Special Efforts thread dedicated to fixing these issues" and can also be commented out.

Is there a preferred method of dealing with ZCEs? I assume I should stop "wholesale removing" them, since I see now that the TV Tropes Customs page seems to be the only page encouraging simple deletion. And that Administrivia page should probably be changed, if that's not the preferred method of dealing with them.

Thanks in advance for any insight.
see/hide 6 replies  
Ramidel
10:56:28 AM 20th Oct 2014
You can chop them if you leave an edit note (it's good practice to always leave an edit note when deleting an example or moving it to discussion), but commenting them out is probably better, because it invites drive-bys who are familiar with the show to uncomment them and add context.
Fighteer
moderator
11:08:36 AM 20th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
^ What Ramidel said. To the casual reader, the difference between a deleted and a commented out ZCE is moot. However, when they click the Edit button to add an example, the commented out entry should indicate to them that it's in need of expansion.

I can't honestly say which policy is better in the long run, as we have only anecdotal evidence to judge them by. Suspensions for uncommenting ZCEs without expanding them make up a non-trivial portion of our Edit Banned conversations.
SolipSchism
11:13:52 AM 20th Oct 2014
edited by SolipSchism
Good to know. I will start commenting them instead; it can clutter up the page source, but as long as we're not worried about that, it does seem less potentially destructive.

Would it be all right if I edited the relevant Administrivia pages to show what is allowed, what is encouraged, and the appropriate way to do either?

I ask because I dunno if the Administrivia pages have editing rules/guidelines that differ from pages in the Main namespace.
Fighteer
moderator
11:23:18 AM 20th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
I'm pretty sure that all relevant Administrivia pages are locked because of You Know Who, but sure, go ahead if you can.

Edit: My personal policy when editing is to delete newly-added ZCEs unless the article is already cleaned — that is, has an editing notice at the top and comments on all existing bad examples. If I don't have time to properly scrub an article, then leaving individual examples commented out is confusing and therefore counterproductive.
SolipSchism
11:30:23 AM 20th Oct 2014
edited by SolipSchism
Administrivia.Zero Context Example is locked, but I was able to edit Administrivia.TV Tropes Customs. Just added a line after the above text, to add that it's often preferable to comment them out.

Also, I feel compelled to note that I Don't Know Who, but I'm okay with that. :p
SolipSchism
01:31:34 PM 20th Oct 2014
Oh hey. There's a thread that addresses this. It seems the officially-sanctioned way to deal with them is to comment them out.

close replies  

SolipSchism
Medium:
01:02:53 PM 20th Oct 2014
edited by SolipSchism
I just posted a concern on the Trial Balloon Question Discussion page, but since I rarely see any movement on discussion pages, I thought I'd link to it here.

Specifically, I'm concerned about the fact that the page quote is an unmarked, prominently displayed, relatively significant, and pretty late-series spoiler for the show it's from. In fact, I'm reasonably sure that even when the quote is spoken in the show the audience is not aware that it's a Trial Balloon Question, but my memory could be faulty. Nonetheless, just having the quote there is a pretty big spoiler.

EDIT: Also, the show the quote is from is in the example list... appropriately spoiler-tagged.
see/hide 2 replies  
Fighteer
moderator
11:55:45 AM 20th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
While you might get a reply here, the General Page Quote Discussion topic is where this sort of thing is usually brought up.

For my two cents, I'd say that it would be good to find a less spoileriffic quote if possible.
SolipSchism
01:02:53 PM 20th Oct 2014
Oh hey, cool. I didn't know that thread existed. Thanks!

close replies  

Sigge
Medium:
11:46:13 AM 20th Oct 2014
This trope page doesn't seem to have gone through YKTTW and only contains one example which doesn't even talk about a specific work, just action anime in general: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeIsAMonster.
see/hide 2 replies  
PistolsAtDawn
10:25:54 AM 20th Oct 2014
edited by PistolsAtDawn
There is a thread for that! http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13544789560A75740100 YKTTW crash rescue

I'm helping! :D
TheOneWhoTropes
11:46:13 AM 20th Oct 2014
It's already been mentioned, both Septimus Heap and I have PM'd the creator over it.

close replies  

RabidTanker
Medium:
05:10:57 AM 20th Oct 2014
Shit, I just launched this and I can't find it anywhere on the wiki!
see/hide 3 replies  
ryanasaurus0077
06:24:46 PM 19th Oct 2014
Did you follow all the instructions which you were given upon launching it?
RabidTanker
07:07:34 PM 19th Oct 2014
edited by RabidTanker
I tried to, but I fed the Data Vampires by doing so. The recent changes said I create a discussion for it... Clicked on the link for said discussion and guess what? The main page nor the Video Game page I wanted to create didn't exist. Right now I'm filling in the page were the game's url SHOULD be.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
05:10:57 AM 20th Oct 2014
Launching a YKTTW doesn't create the article. You still need to copy the source text into the wiki article - the links are on the pages you get when you launch something.

close replies  

HeroGal2347
Medium:
04:22:55 PM 19th Oct 2014
Dan004 took over a YKTTW from frosty (with said troper's permission). S/he's having a bit of trouble getting around to launching it, though, and suggested that I do it. I'm not sure if I'm likely to get frozen for this offense, since the moderators who can freeze someone may not have been reading the YKTTW.
see/hide 7 replies  
SeptimusHeap
moderator
10:47:00 AM 19th Oct 2014
As I said in one of these YKTTW's, if the YKTTW has enough hats and nobody is objecting and people have been passing you permission to launch them, go ahead.
RayAP9
10:58:11 AM 19th Oct 2014
Heh. Frosty. Frozen. I see what you did there.
HeroGal2347
11:03:25 AM 19th Oct 2014
I didn't; his/her name actually includes that phrase.
DracMonster
01:11:58 PM 19th Oct 2014
Let it launch, let it launch...
DAN004
03:53:22 PM 19th Oct 2014
^ omg LOL.
ryanasaurus0077
04:22:55 PM 19th Oct 2014
edited by ryanasaurus0077
nvm, moving to YKTTW proper. If I only knew what it was...

close replies  

RabidTanker
Medium:
03:20:42 PM 19th Oct 2014
edited by RabidTanker
Just wondering, since I'm kinda a new here. What's the proper formatting for what I'm about to add?

Sideswipe: Looks like the party's getting started!
(Starscream flies into the train station through an opening in the ceiling)
Starscream: How right you are! Worthless Autbots! Give me the Dark Spark or perish at the hands of Starscr...ugh! Ugh! Get off!
(The feral Insecticon drones starts attacking Starscream
see/hide 5 replies  
RabidTanker
11:11:36 PM 17th Oct 2014
Um, yeah, I definitely need an answer on this by Sunday since my hour of midnight power is almost up here(only have Internet access every other day, and I don't even edit that often). And I hate to see the character page I'm working on cutlisted.
Candi
11:31:47 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by Candi
Try Administrivia.Text Formatting Rules, scroll down to Quotes Formatting. Page quotes come first, then maybe what you're looking for.

I hope this will help.
rodneyAnonymous
03:44:26 PM 18th Oct 2014
There is no way to make that look good in an example list. Describe the scene, instead of quoting it.
RoseAndHeather
03:51:52 PM 18th Oct 2014
And check your grammar/spelling, lest The Wrath of Mod come down upon you.
RabidTanker
03:20:42 PM 19th Oct 2014
Give the insomniac a break guys, I wrote that late at night, was forced to stay up late, and I was half-awake.

close replies  

doubleyouteeeff
Medium:
02:20:11 PM 19th Oct 2014
Some trope pages (like AffectionateParody.New Media / AffectionateParody.Web Original, AntiVillain.New Media / AntiVillain.Web Originals, BatmanGambit.New Media / BatmanGambit.Web Original) have separate folders or subpages for Web Original examples and New Media examples.

Is there a defined difference between the two? They seem to use New Media either for generic examples, which aren't generally wanted on the wiki, for non-work examples, which might better fit under real life if such examples are allowed, or for Web examples that aren't Comics or Video or Animation.
see/hide 8 replies  
SeptimusHeap
moderator
05:35:40 AM 14th Oct 2014
Nothing that I can see, at least. Web Original is the accepted folder name and example subpages take the folder names.
doubleyouteeeff
06:40:16 AM 14th Oct 2014
So should New Media pages be merged into Web Original pages in cases where both exist?
Fighteer
moderator
06:46:56 AM 14th Oct 2014
Yes. New Media is not a media category for folderization and splitting purposes.
doubleyouteeeff
07:40:36 AM 14th Oct 2014
edited by doubleyouteeeff
Should I post this in the Short-term projects forum?

Edit with a writeup for an OP:

As Tropers/Fighteer pointed out in Ask The Tropers, Web Original, and not New Media, is the standard media category for websites and web-related works. However, many tropes have subpages titled "New Media", and many even have a separate "Web Original" page, however poorly-defined the distinction may be.

The purpose of this project is to move examples from New Media pages to Web Original where appropriate; some examples may be a better fit for Real Life or other web subpages if they exist.

Redundant New Media Pages shows tropes that have both "New Media" and "Web Original" subpages.

I'll post that tomorrow if there are no objections.
Candi
05:36:59 PM 14th Oct 2014
It would be nice to have consensus. Although The Problem with Pen Island is going to be fun: It has both folders, and they are looooong.
doubleyouteeeff
03:11:53 AM 15th Oct 2014
If a Web Original section would be especially long, I think it should be split into Web Animation, Webcomics, Websites, and Web Video, and maybe Web Serial Novels would fit under Literature. The New Media section of The Problem with Pen Island seems like it should instead be titled "Websites", and some under "Web Original" would seem to fit that better as well.
doubleyouteeeff
02:10:37 PM 19th Oct 2014
Bump. Should I bring this up in Short-term projects or in Wiki Talk?
Fighteer
moderator
02:20:11 PM 19th Oct 2014
Put up a projects thread, I suppose.

close replies  

RayAP9
Medium:
02:07:25 PM 19th Oct 2014
edited by RayAP9
In The Avengers, Tony Stark comments that Captain America is "wearing a spangly outfit," using the word "spangly" most likely based on the name of the United States national anthem and the American motif of Cap's suit. Pun? Stealth pun?

Essentially, I'm:

A: Trying to figure out if either "pun" trope fits this quote, and

B: Trying to figure out when a pun becomes a stealth pun
see/hide 9 replies  
rodneyAnonymous
11:32:48 AM 19th Oct 2014
I don't understand how that is a pun at all.
RayAP9
12:10:43 PM 19th Oct 2014
"Spangly"... America's national anthem is called "The Star Spangled Banner."
Tarlonniel
12:18:41 PM 19th Oct 2014
He's saying it's not a pun, just a shout out of sorts.
rodneyAnonymous
12:31:24 PM 19th Oct 2014
Puns have two meanings. That is one meaning
MrDeath
12:59:57 PM 19th Oct 2014
I also don't see how it's a pun.
RayAP9
01:27:19 PM 19th Oct 2014
I can live with being wrong. In hindsight, maybe "play on words" would be more accurate.
Fighteer
moderator
01:48:35 PM 19th Oct 2014
"Play on words" is the definition of a pun.
rodneyAnonymous
01:52:06 PM 19th Oct 2014
edited by rodneyAnonymous
It's not more accurate. It's not a play on words. He just referenced the anthem title, full stop.
RayAP9
02:07:25 PM 19th Oct 2014
Okay, okay, I get the point.

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harryhenry
Medium:
01:13:11 PM 19th Oct 2014
edited by harryhenry
Flamedrake92 seems to be doing some... odd Example Indentation for third bullet points recently. For example:
  • Inspiration Manifestation:

    Constant praise actually can stifle your artistic integrity and it's alright to take some criticism now and then. Just roll with the punches and adjust when you need to.

    Your usual artistic style isn't always what the customer needs; try to think of the client's context. At the same time, you can's just assume the artist/contractor knows exactly what you want or need when placing a special order. Be specific!

Rather then:
  • "Inspiration Manifestation":
    • Constant praise actually can stifle your artistic integrity and it's alright to take some criticism now and then. Just roll with the punches and adjust when you need too.
    • Your usual artistic style isn't always what the customer needs; try to think of the client's context. At the same time, you can's just assume the artist/contractor knows exactly what you want or need when placing a special order. Be specific!

I suspect he's a sockpuppet by FirebirdMaximus, since he changed Example Indentations in a similar way. (I could be wrong, though.)
see/hide 2 replies  
SeptimusHeap
moderator
10:40:17 AM 19th Oct 2014
edited by SeptimusHeap
Yep, IPs overlap, seems like a sock. The edits are an issue as well (albeit infrequently) so I hauled them in.
DracMonster
01:13:11 PM 19th Oct 2014
edited by DracMonster
[[Ignore, mispost.]]

close replies  

Nohbody
Medium:
07:00:18 AM 19th Oct 2014
I know that Mary Sue isn't to be listed in example lists, but does that also apply to the assorted Sue variants (black hole, anti, jerk, etc)?

I'd think so, but want to be sure before I zap an entry.
see/hide 1 replies  
Fighteer
moderator
07:00:18 AM 19th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
Yes, it does apply to all the variants, except perhaps Parody Sue as it's an intentional version on the part of the author.

close replies  

muddycurve424
Medium:
05:16:03 AM 19th Oct 2014
Just for my own information, if a work is the Trope Namer, does it mean that trope HAS to be used in the work?
see/hide 3 replies  
DarkHunter
02:41:45 AM 19th Oct 2014
Not necessarily.

There have, on occasion, been Trope Namers that haven't actually been an example of the trope they named. It was just too good a name for the trope to pass up.

I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but I do know they exist.
nrjxll
03:17:42 AM 19th Oct 2014
muddycurve424
05:16:03 AM 19th Oct 2014
Much obliged

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nrjxll
Medium:
03:09:03 AM 19th Oct 2014
So I'm aware that, if you run into zero-context examples while browsing the wiki, they should be expanded if you're familiar with them and commented out otherwise. However, I've run into a few pages (mostly character sheets) with almost nothing but zero-context examples. What should be done with those?
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ryanasaurus0077
11:32:37 PM 18th Oct 2014
XFllo
03:09:03 AM 19th Oct 2014
And comment them out as well. Because if people see such pages, they assume it's ok to have pages like that.

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nrjxll
Medium:
09:25:57 PM 18th Oct 2014
edited by nrjxll
Why is CharacterSheets.Troper Works an index, exactly? Other Character Sheets indexes are based on the work's medium.
see/hide 1 replies  
Candi
09:25:57 PM 18th Oct 2014
Um, I think Troper Works is an old namespace that is now covered by Fanfiction in most cases, and the other relevant categories for published works.

close replies  

TheOneWhoTropes
Medium:
05:09:13 PM 18th Oct 2014
is drewski meant to have moderator powers? They're not listed on Administrivia.Know The Staff.
see/hide 2 replies  
Candi
01:52:02 AM 17th Oct 2014
I don't think so... their first edit is listed as Sept 11, 2014.

I hope this isn't another thing like the forums last year.
Ironeye
moderator
01:55:45 AM 17th Oct 2014
edited by Ironeye
We're in the process of adding new staff members, and will update that page once the process is finalized.

close replies  

RoseAndHeather
Medium:
08:26:18 AM 18th Oct 2014
Okay. This might just be me being a grouch so please don't jump down my throat, but... self-demonstrating folder titles. Do they have to be a thing? Because if you're looking for one particular folder, it can get really annoying to actually have to read them instead of just skimming until you find the one you want.
see/hide 33 replies  
SeptimusHeap
moderator
11:25:18 AM 17th Oct 2014
Well, such folder titles have earned complaints in the past. Which page is your issue on, by the way?
RoseAndHeather
11:52:57 AM 17th Oct 2014
Currently Could Say It But, but the same issue arises on.... well, every other page I visit that has the damn things.
Fighteer
moderator
11:59:54 AM 17th Oct 2014
On a personal level, I loathe them as well.
MyFinalEdits
12:00:49 PM 17th Oct 2014
I'd say it's more of a case-by-case basis. There are pages whose subjects and viability for self-demonstration allows them. In others they do seem forced.

Also, you'll need a better reason than "I don't like them" to suggest a wiki-wide ban of them.
RoseAndHeather
12:07:50 PM 17th Oct 2014
Fine. They're hard to read, utterly unnecessary, too complicated for their own good, not fun, and violate Clear Concise And Witty on about ten different levels that I can think of offhand.

Happy now?

And no, I haven't found a single page with them where the same problems don't arise. They seem to have a sliding scale from "annoying" to "so fucking annoying I want to shoot them".
SeptimusHeap
moderator
12:22:09 PM 17th Oct 2014
Well, for people who use the "block" folders these folders push the medium name out of sight.
MauiWowie
12:27:30 PM 17th Oct 2014
That varies from person to person, yo. And I'll second what Septimus said.
CrystalGlacia
12:34:17 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by CrystalGlacia
I don't use compact folders so I never saw that before and I actually sort of like creative folder names, but I think the compact folders issue is a pretty good reason to get rid of them.
SolipSchism
12:35:06 PM 17th Oct 2014
I agree with OP. It's not simply a matter of "not liking them", it's the fact that they're harder to parse and they don't really add any value. Ordinarily you can just scan for the "Live-Action TV" folder or the "Film—Live-Action" folder, but folder names like "I want to tell you that this is the Fan Works folder, but I can't, so I won't" and "Non-animated episodic series produced for television networks (Live Action TV)" are unintuitive, unnecessary, funny for about 76 femtoseconds, and mildly frustrating. The downsides outweigh any advantage to having them.

Forced or not, if you're going to have a Self-Demonstrating Article, have a Self-Demonstrating Article, but it should be kept out of the functional parts of the article, such as navigation.
MauiWowie
12:42:28 PM 17th Oct 2014
Uh... that's still a matter of not liking them. I don't find them very obtrusive, even when working with a small screen. And Fast Eddie's let self-demonstrating on the grounds that we're not a super-formal wiki.
RoseAndHeather
12:52:09 PM 17th Oct 2014
Fine, why should the fact that you like them mean the rest of us have to be constantly annoyed? Bit selfish, don't you think?

It's not about 'not liking them' (though I don't); it's about the fact that they make the wiki less fun, harder to use, and serve absolutely no purpose other than amusing a few select people while pissing off everybody else. SolipSchism has the right of it.
MauiWowie
01:00:21 PM 17th Oct 2014
Are two people suddenly everybody else?
Larkmarn
01:00:53 PM 17th Oct 2014
We let Self Demonstrating have its own namespace because, well, it's obtrusive and annoying as hell. This seems to be just the same as potholed trope names, which messes with alphabetizing and makes things tougher to read.
MauiWowie
01:05:29 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by MauiWowie
Sorry, three people.

Move them to Self Demonstrating, then? Or start a vote in Trope Repair Shop?

Personally, I consider ctrl+f my savior and friend when it comes to finding folder.
SolipSchism
02:00:30 PM 17th Oct 2014
^ I'm not positive, but I don't believe all of them actually include the standard name of the folder, so CTRL+F might not always work. Besides which, it's still extra effort that wouldn't be necessary if the folders were standardized.

^^^^^ I fail to see how "harder to parse", "don't really add any value", "unintuitive", "funny for about 76 femtoseconds", and "mildly frustrating" are useless complaints that equate to "not liking them".

Whether or not you agree with the complaints, they are valid and warrant some consideration. (In other words, "harder to parse" is not a personal aesthetic, it's a fact that they take longer to read.) If they add no real value other than a split-second's worth of amusement before they become old and trite, and they make the lists harder to parse, why bother with them?

I'll say again: They add no significant value to anything, and have several notable drawbacks that outweigh whatever positive effect their presence gives any given page.
RoseAndHeather
02:03:14 PM 17th Oct 2014
[sits down, shuts up, and lets SolipSchism do the talking]
SolipSchism
02:21:50 PM 17th Oct 2014
^^^^ Larkmarn also makes a good point about Pot Holed trope names, it's a similar problem.

^ No need for that, your opinion is as valid as anyone else's. As long as we don't start a Flame War there should be no problem.

^^^ That seems a fine compromise. I could personally give two craps about the formatting of what goes in the nonstandard namespaces, since I know they're not subject to the same guidelines and rules as the Main namespace. It's one thing for the Main namespace to be breezy and casual and silly and tongue-in-cheek, it's quite another for it to be difficult and obnoxious. Although after peeking at the forum, I think this kind of initiative would be more appropriate in Short Term or Long Term Projects. It will probably take some time to hunt them all down.
MauiWowie
02:29:10 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by MauiWowie
Does everyone have the same sense of humor? Does something that one guy finds unamusing suddenly become unamusing for the rest of a wiki used by thousands of other people that routinely relies on community feedback? Is a sentence that much harder and longer to parse than a word or two? Is Ctrl+f or Command+f or a similar command not working?
PistolsAtDawn
02:45:45 PM 17th Oct 2014
just two add my own two cents, i hate them and they are annoying to figure out.
SolipSchism
03:13:46 PM 17th Oct 2014
^^ I can pretty much copy and paste the entire "Joke Fulfillment Links" paragraph of the page on Sinkhole, and change a few words, to explain exactly why the "humor" aspect is not helpful:

"Please consider that for tropers or readers who have been frequenting the wiki for even a few days, there is nothing remotely original or new about [changing the display names of otherwise standardized navigational tools for the sake of being Self-Demonstrating]. It has been done to death. It has become repetitive and predictable, and repetitiveness and predictability kill humour."

It is not a running gag. It was mildly clever the first time anyone ever did it, and never again afterward. It is not funny anymore. It is certainly not helpful. It's like changing Facebook's language settings to "Pirate". Sure, it's amusing for a little while, but then it just makes it harder to figure out what each button actually does. (Except, maybe, for a few people who are just easily amused.)
SolipSchism
03:25:27 PM 17th Oct 2014
^^^ Also, re: your question about it being harder to parse: Yes. I wouldn't have said it otherwise.

Your brain becomes accustomed to patterns and you learn to think in a kind of shorthand that allows you to do minor subtasks without thinking. When I look at a new works page I've never seen before, I barely have to think about the folder buttons because they've become second nature, and I can home in on exactly the one I need because they're all the same.

With long, unwieldy, or really any nonstandard naming scheme, it forces me to think consciously about the finer details of what I'm doing, which are normally on "autopilot", and slows me down.

That may seem like a minor concern, and true enough, removing them is not going to save any starving children. But I was under the impression that computer users don't typically defend features/functions that make tasks take more time/effort with no added value, even if it's just a small amount of extra time/effort.

One more time, say it with me kids: It's pointless, serves no purpose, and has negative traits that (I have yet to see anyone actually contest this) outweigh any positive value.

And since you insist on phrasing your counterpoints as questions, here's a question for you:

Should a problematic feature or function, even one that is only mildly problematic, be retained just because it has some humor value? Incidentally, literally no one but you has yet championed their humor value.
Discar
04:17:25 PM 17th Oct 2014
I have seen a few that work (Gratuitous Japanese, for example, has the folder titles in Japanese with the English right there with them), but they are by far the exception rather than the rule.
rodneyAnonymous
04:21:36 PM 17th Oct 2014
Two more cents: I don't like them either. "Some people do" isn't a good argument. Some people liked Troper Tales.

I think if Self Demonstrating articles are off the Main namespace, Self Demonstrating folder names should be too.
ObsidianFire
04:25:08 PM 17th Oct 2014
Personally, I find them hilarious. And they're in the same order as all the other example folders on the site are too, so it's not that hard to figure out what folder it is. And they usually have the folder name in there anyway.

If anything, I'd say the only problem with Could Say It But is that it's not in the Self Demonstrating namespace and should be moved. And have a normal entry made for it.
Fighteer
moderator
04:29:37 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
^^ I agree.
RoseAndHeather
04:32:09 PM 17th Oct 2014
I agree that the folders on Gratuitous Japanese work really well, for the simple reason that you don't have to read the characters - you just shift your eyes to the right a little bit. The additional text isn't interfering with your ability to find the folder name at all. But that's the only page I can think of where it works.
nrjxll
04:32:21 PM 17th Oct 2014
I'd just like to chime in for the "I don't like them" side. I don't think I've ever read a self-demonstrating anything on this site that I didn't feel beat the joke into the ground, and certainly folder names are particularly bad about that because there's going to be like a dozen of them every time.

Though ObsidianFire does have a point that when they're in the same order as normal folders (which is usually the case), it really shouldn't be that confusing.
MrL1193
04:46:36 PM 17th Oct 2014
^^The folders on Tyop on the Cover aren't too bad either, but anything more than that is probably too much.
MauiWowie
04:52:21 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by MauiWowie
I'm still failing to see how taking a few more seconds to read something is inherently negative, or how it's problematic. It's a few more words, a very simple sentence, at best, and it's not like it's some sort of esoteric, underground book that requires you to have attained a doctorate in literary criticism to decipher.

This wiki isn't a hardcore technical site, either, and not everyone reads wikis that same way you do. Taking a second to read something hasn't killed anyone. (Then again, I usually have folders open by default, anyway, it isn't going to kill me if I read something that's not in my preferred genre.)

If it's deeply, truly killing you inside that you don't want to read a sentence, ask Trope Repair Shop.
Candi
05:05:01 PM 17th Oct 2014
I think the unusual folder names need to be addressed. One times out of ten they're funny and add value to the article. The rest, they're shoehorned, tedious and not funny.

If current guidelines are providing a loophole and can't be parsed to cover it, then there needs to be a guideline about it.

I do not support getting rid of odd folder names completely. I do support using them sensibly.
DracMonster
05:06:12 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by DracMonster
Okay folks, this thread is turning into a behemoth and starting to disrupt ATT. I think this needs to go to a crowner or something.
Candi
05:30:41 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by Candi
How about someone opening a thread in Wiki Talk for further discussion? I've had some further thoughts (like putting regular title first, than funny title), and I think this really is something that should be thoroughly explored, particularly since it will probably wind up in a cleanup thread at some point.
Discar
08:26:18 AM 18th Oct 2014

close replies  

Kuruni
Medium:
01:44:47 AM 18th Oct 2014
edited by Kuruni
I will get straight to the point, Punk 911 keep adding ZCE examples despite hidden note on the top of characters sheet, and notified by me.

Look at his edit, he also add spoiler-covered trope name.
see/hide 1 replies  
SeptimusHeap
moderator
01:44:47 AM 18th Oct 2014
Aye, that is not good. Put a stop on them.

close replies  

MyFinalEdits
Medium:
08:09:53 PM 17th Oct 2014
The text of the blue-colored tabs are in bold. Is this a normal change, or is it just the resolution of my PC's screen?
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Discar
07:42:05 PM 17th Oct 2014
I'm not seeing that anywhere. It might just be you. Maybe you accidentally zoomed in on your browser or something.
Candi
07:45:22 PM 17th Oct 2014
I've been seeing the text in the tabs in bold for a couple days. I thought it was my browser, since I always dink with the settings and I have it at 125%.
MrL1193
07:56:34 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by MrL1193
I've been seeing this for a while now as well, though for some reason, it seems to affect the buttons in a very inconsistent manner. On the home page, none of the buttons are affected, but on the forums and right here on ATT, all the buttons above the search bar(s) are affected. On trope pages, only the buttons on the left side are affected. Perhaps strangest of all, on the page that lists active YKTTW's, all the buttons at the top except "random item" are affected, and the search bar runs over on top of the "search" button.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I'm getting these issues with Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer, even with the default zoom settings.
MyFinalEdits
08:09:53 PM 17th Oct 2014
I see. Well, it doesn't really bug me or anything, I was just curious to know. =)

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LunarAngel64
Medium:
07:44:13 PM 17th Oct 2014
When I added my examples, I keep getting messages saying the link to the page isn't working properly. I look at all the examples on the page to make sure I'm doing it right…but for some reason, it doesn't work for me despite following everything to the wire. Is this a glitch or what?
see/hide 2 replies  
MyFinalEdits
06:46:02 PM 17th Oct 2014
I'm the one who's sending you that PM. ^_~

When you want to link to a work or trope, you have to write the name in CamelCase (that is, without spaces). If the name is only one word, encase it with brackets ({{}}). Also, in the specific case of a work link, it has to be italics, you can do that by using the ' markup (two at the start of the name and two at the end). And of course, the namespace is important too.

Hope that helps!

Candi
07:44:13 PM 17th Oct 2014
@ Lunar, here's the page you want: Administrivia.Text Formatting Rules.

Need any more help, just ask. :)

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DAN004
Medium:
06:03:02 PM 17th Oct 2014
Just asking: Does Not Like Shoes is not about someone who goes barefoot without a reason, right?
see/hide 8 replies  
MyFinalEdits
11:22:01 PM 10th Oct 2014
AFAIK, no.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
12:59:43 AM 11th Oct 2014
Well, the description indicates that the character does not have to spell out a reason.
Fighteer
moderator
06:52:55 AM 11th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
"For whatever reason, this character tries to avoid wearing shoes whenever possible."

It doesn't have to be spelled out in the story, but the character should actively reject footwear, not just go barefoot a lot.
DAN004
10:37:17 PM 12th Oct 2014
Would this count?
  • El Sword: Ara as Asura, unlike her other classes, goes barefoot (with her feet only covered by some straps of cloth). This is part of the symbolism of the Ashura or Buddhist myth that is closer to earth despite being a divine being.

Thing is, there's no in universe reason for her to dislike shoes, nor is it ever pointed out.
KarjamP
10:52:57 PM 12th Oct 2014
I think Wii Fit Trainer would also count in Super Smash Brothers due to being the only human in the game who goes barefoot by default.

And that El Sword example does count.

I think the problem with your interpretation is that you're basing it on the trope's name, not what it's actually about (ie, avoiding shoes as much as possible - it doesn't say they'd hate shoes). Name changes are only possible if it's been proven that the name itself's causing problems, and even then, if it has enough wicks, the name has to be kept in some way, whether it's to make a redirect or to rewrite the trope so that it's about the thing everyone keeps mistaking it for (the latter happened to Exact Words, believe it or not).
DAN004
03:21:45 PM 15th Oct 2014
Bump for second opinion
Madrugada
moderator
06:19:07 AM 17th Oct 2014
The character doesn't have to dislike shoes. They simply have a reason for wearing them as little as possible. The El Sword example is valid: she does not wear shoes because of the symbolism of being barefooted.

There's your second opinion.

DAN004
06:03:02 PM 17th Oct 2014
Okay then. :D

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RatherRandomRachel
Medium:
02:28:14 PM 17th Oct 2014
What do I do for a creator page where the creator in question is known by several different names?

Say for example we have a man called Adam, who's also done work as Bob, Charlie, Dylan, and Edward. What should I do for this theoretical creator?
see/hide 2 replies  
Fighteer
moderator
02:15:44 PM 17th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
The default answer is to make redirects, in addition to noting these alternative names in the main article.
RatherRandomRachel
02:28:14 PM 17th Oct 2014
Alright, thank you very much, Fighteer!

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MarqFJA
Medium:
09:28:53 AM 17th Oct 2014
So, is there a minimum size limit to Canis Major (depending upon the real-life breed of the dog, if it indeed conforms to one in the first place), or is simply being depicted/described in-universe as "noticeably larger" than is normal for its breed sufficient even if it's not truly gigantic by dog standards?
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Larkmarn
05:32:50 AM 17th Oct 2014
Is a layperson likely to go "that's a big-ass dog"? Then it probably counts.
Willbyr
moderator
09:28:53 AM 17th Oct 2014
My rule of thumb would be that the lower end of the scale would be a dog that a St. Bernard or similarly large breed would have to look up to.

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chunebuncle
Medium: Music
05:21:16 AM 17th Oct 2014
I've been doing some basic edits on the page for the Japanese Visual Kei band D. They've got a pretty expansive discography and there's roughly a million tropes that apply. This is all well and good, but I'm not sure what to do with a particular bit of their career. This band has an INCREDIBLY expansive Vampire Saga that threads all through their music, with specific characters and costumes and stories and songs and videos that stand completely independent from the rest of their music and videos. Adding all the tropes about the band, AND their regular music, AND their Vampire Saga makes for a very, very cluttered page. Should I make a subpage or entirely new page for just the Vampire Saga, or should I make a separate folder within the main tropes page? I stress again — this is a seriously, massively expansive story with a coherent plot and characters.
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Telcontar
moderator
05:21:16 AM 17th Oct 2014
At the moment, the page is short enough that subpages aren't needed. I think making a "general" folder and a "Vampire Saga" folder would probably be best.

Also, thanks for your contributions!

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PistolsAtDawn
Medium:
12:35:10 AM 17th Oct 2014
Does a character page require, uh, tropes on it? Because this one is just a list of the characters with no tropes attached. (Also im like 90% sure that how the characters scored on a mary sue test shouldnt be in their profile, but i digress)

should i cutlist it or just leave it? Or is it best that I try to fill it out?
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Fighteer
moderator
09:21:11 PM 16th Oct 2014
As it stands, it has no trope value whatsoever. Crush it.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
12:35:10 AM 17th Oct 2014
I agree with the cutting. Go ahead and cutlist it.

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DAN004
Medium:
10:57:55 PM 16th Oct 2014
I recall that we had a ykttw called Call Me Dad Dilemma, but when I tried searching for it in ykttw or Launches, I can't seem to find it.

Dunno, maybe the name just changed? Even then I tried using "Parental Substitute" and yet I still don't find that ykttw.

So... what happened?
see/hide 9 replies  
Candi
07:50:33 PM 15th Oct 2014
The mods periodically go through YKTTW and clean out inactive or badly-done threads. Or the original poster may have discarded it.
DAN004
08:29:15 PM 15th Oct 2014
But then it must be in Launches. And yet, I don't find it...
Candi
09:26:18 PM 15th Oct 2014
"Clean out" = delete. They don't get launched, they get removed.
Larkmarn
05:48:09 AM 16th Oct 2014
But it'd still show up in the "Recently Launched" page.
DracMonster
05:56:49 AM 16th Oct 2014
edited by DracMonster
Maybe ones deleted by a mod don't go on that list? They may have some "Destroy and leave no witnesses" button we don't.
CrypticMirror
06:38:46 AM 16th Oct 2014
edited by CrypticMirror
I think it got given a really bad name, is this it? New Parent Nomenclature Problem

I'd never have found it searching on that name, I only found it because I remembered one of the examples and searched on the work's page to find it.

YKTTW has been producing some dodgy names of late, either too many people determined to be a trope namer throwing out as many tangential names as they can, or trying to be too inclusive and ending up with a name so long and covering so many possibilities it is pretty useless in finding specific examples. Not sure what can be done about that though.
SeptimusHeap
moderator
06:43:19 AM 16th Oct 2014
Yep, it's that YKTTW.
CrypticMirror
06:44:38 AM 16th Oct 2014
If you want some irony, look who is saying they can't find it, and look whose is the final post on the YKTTW saying it is a good name.
DAN004
10:57:55 PM 16th Oct 2014
I know that the name has changed the last time I remembered it. Thing is, I forgot that name.

Glad to know that it is launched. Will make a redirect.

close replies  

desdendelle
Medium:
02:25:54 PM 16th Oct 2014
edited by desdendelle
Website.Dailybooth has one line of description and one trope (Fanservice). Can it be cut?
see/hide 2 replies  
SeptimusHeap
moderator
12:57:15 PM 14th Oct 2014
Uh yeah, that article needs a trip to the cutlist.
Willbyr
moderator
02:25:54 PM 16th Oct 2014
It and its Main/ redirect have been cutlisted.

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SolipSchism
Medium:
02:12:35 PM 16th Oct 2014
Question.

An example of Robots Think Faster in which the character in question is not technically a robot.

It is a kind of Contagious A.I. capable of running on any sufficiently-advanced platform, including anything from the most basic computers all the way up to organic brains. In other words, it's a Contagious A.I./Body Snatcher. There is a brief section at the beginning of the story that is told from the character's point of view, and shows that it experiences time at a much slower rate than normal, because of its advanced nature.

Would this be an appropriate use of the trope?
see/hide 2 replies  
Bisected8
01:55:40 PM 16th Oct 2014
Given the description mentions Deep Blue (which was just a computer, not a robot), any sort of AI's probably fair game.
SolipSchism
02:12:35 PM 16th Oct 2014
Fair enough. I figured the fact that it can more or less Possess organic beings without using any additional hardware might disqualify it as a "robot", but either interpretation makes sense.

close replies  

DAN004
Medium:
02:07:59 PM 16th Oct 2014
Can anybody tell me what Real Men Get Shot exactly is about?
see/hide 4 replies  
nrjxll
06:53:56 PM 11th Oct 2014
Better take that one to the Trope Description help thread, or even TRS. The examples are terrible and the description is highly unclear.
NemuruMaeNi
01:21:45 AM 13th Oct 2014
It is about making male character shine by making him get harmed in harm's way?
DAN004
03:22:11 PM 15th Oct 2014
Bump
SolipSchism
02:07:59 PM 16th Oct 2014
Jesus, that's a lot of ZCEs. The description isn't bad, but the example list is a bunch of "X." and "Y. Yeah." There are like six real examples on the whole page.

My understanding of the description is shown best in the end of the first paragraph: Getting injured is manly. In and of itself. Not how you react to it, not even necessarily whether you willingly got injured; the mere fact of being injured makes you Badass.

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Spinosegnosaurus77
Medium:
11:52:09 AM 16th Oct 2014
I seem to remember there being a tool that lets you view a page's inbounds. Where is it?
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SeptimusHeap
moderator
01:57:32 PM 15th Oct 2014
's been removed a while ago because it promoted spamming.
Spinosegnosaurus77
02:01:40 PM 15th Oct 2014
edited by Spinosegnosaurus77
How so? In that case, Analyzing Inbounds will have to be updated…
Fighteer
moderator
02:30:29 PM 15th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
Spammers were creating inbound links to our articles from their sites, then using the reverse links that we automatically granted them to increase their search engine presence.
Spinosegnosaurus77
02:39:24 PM 15th Oct 2014
That's sad. Do you know if a version without the reverse links could be made?
Fighteer
moderator
11:52:09 AM 16th Oct 2014
It would go on the tech wishlist.

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CrypticMirror
Medium:
10:16:50 AM 16th Oct 2014
edited by CrypticMirror
The Misty May page fails our test on "no creepiness", right? I mean do we really need a page on how to measure how women's breasts bounce?
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Fighteer
moderator
10:09:34 AM 16th Oct 2014
It's just a fan terminology definition, with no examples. By our current standards, it can stay as it is. It also doesn't have work links, or shouldn't.
GnomeTitan
10:16:50 AM 16th Oct 2014
And, as the page clearly states, it's tongue-in-cheek.

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SeptimusHeap
moderator
Medium:
09:06:04 AM 16th Oct 2014
ssfsx17 made NightmareFuel.The Evil Within without indexing it even though I am fairly sure that I messaged them already in the past (over Cognition An Erica Reed Thriller and Cognition An Erica Reed Thriller, for instance).
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Fighteer
moderator
09:06:04 AM 16th Oct 2014
Suspension issued.

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SeptimusHeap
moderator
Medium:
09:05:29 AM 16th Oct 2014
Third report this morning, but gorg has been adding Zero Context Examples on Characters.Power Ponies Rogues Gallery despite being messaged over this on Characters.Red Vs Blue Others.
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MrL1193
03:56:03 AM 16th Oct 2014
edited by MrL1193
His grammar could use some work too. Also, I know trope lists shouldn't hide the names of the tropes in potholes at all, but "Badflank Crew" is just painful to see.
Fighteer
moderator
09:05:29 AM 16th Oct 2014
Suspension issued.

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Larkmarn
Medium:
09:02:57 AM 16th Oct 2014
edited by Larkmarn
Could we get a revert on But Thou Must?

Powermad80 seems to have run a filter that changes "Force" to "horse". If someone reverts, I'll go ahead and remake the changes that were made after the filter messed up the page. I went ahead and fixed the other page he did it to, but there's way too many examples on But Thou Must to be bothered.
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SeptimusHeap
moderator
06:41:55 AM 16th Oct 2014
In the name of Pele and Hathor, why do these things keep popping up? Anyhow, revert handed out.
Larkmarn
06:54:31 AM 16th Oct 2014
I P Med the troper.
Fighteer
moderator
09:02:57 AM 16th Oct 2014
Suspended. We can't let these things go.

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Elfkaiser
Medium:
08:14:54 AM 16th Oct 2014
Big Little Brother is supposedly about a younger sibling that's taller than their older sibling/s as demonstrated by Alphonse Elric in the accompanying pic.

Little Big Brother is supposedly about an older sibling that's smaller than their younger sibling/s.

The two seem to be confused for one another, or at least the latter seems to be based on it having fewer examples. Would a request for a bit of a check and rewrite of the examples, as well as some laconics to clarify the two be appropriate? It's just abit of a major overhaul/change, at least from my viewpoint, to change more than a few examples and descriptions between two tropes without a proper discussion beforehand and I fear I might break some rules without doing so.
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PPPSSC
10:03:20 AM 15th Oct 2014
Why are these even separate tropes? It seems like they would go with one another 100% of the time.
Kuruni
10:36:41 AM 15th Oct 2014
On work namespace, they would alway go with one another. But I think it can be on its own in character sheet.
theAdeptRogue
06:18:47 PM 15th Oct 2014
^ Does that warrant a separate trope. Just make one into a redirect, and the meaning won't change.
Candi
06:54:20 PM 15th Oct 2014
Ah, I think that might involve having to make a workshop thread to get consensus, since messing with tropes like that is a fairly big change.
randomsurfer
08:14:54 AM 16th Oct 2014
Similar nomenclature aside, I think there's a distinct difference between the two. Little Big Brother is simply that the older is shorter than the younger, while in Big Little Brother the little brother is The Big Guy. (Though I must admit there are some misplaced examples on BLB.)

To take one example, in Buffy the Vampire Slayer Buffy is shorter than Dawn so it's Little Big Brother. But Dawn is not some awesomely powered freak of nature (at least not in the TV show) so it's not a Big Little Brother situation.

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GnomeTitan
Medium:
07:31:01 AM 16th Oct 2014
edited by GnomeTitan
I see on the "Edit banned/suspended" forum that many tropers are suspended for things like bad grammar, extensive natter and so on, and I'm wondering how these cases are brought to the moderators' attention.

One way is obviously complaints posted here, or PM reports directly to a moderator, or a moderator may see it themselves when browsing. But what happens if another troper uses the "Send X a standard message explaining an editing issue" button - is that somehow reported to the moderators, or does it stay between the tropers involved?

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SeptimusHeap
moderator
02:05:31 AM 16th Oct 2014
There is a thingy on the moderator side that records how much messages one has been sent.
GnomeTitan
02:09:50 AM 16th Oct 2014
OK, so if troper X receives many "edit reason" messages, the moderators will inquire?
Fighteer
moderator
05:30:36 AM 16th Oct 2014
No, we don't sit around all day clicking on handles to see how many notifiers they receive. We rely almost exclusively on user reports of misbehavior.
GnomeTitan
07:00:24 AM 16th Oct 2014
edited by GnomeTitan
I didn't mean to imply that you were - I thought maybe there was some more automated mechanism at work. But thanks for the answer. It's good to know what has to be done in case I should encounter something needing moderator intervention.

AnoBakaDesu
07:31:01 AM 16th Oct 2014
But the thing is, most people with bad grammar have received multiple warning PMs and deliberately chose to ignore it, despite the big green banner that shows up when you have received a message while you're browsing a page or the forums. This gives absolutely no excuse to the offender.

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SeptimusHeap
moderator
Medium:
04:11:35 AM 16th Oct 2014
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Deadbeatloser22
moderator
04:11:35 AM 16th Oct 2014
Bounced.

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Shaoken
Medium:
03:28:07 AM 16th Oct 2014
edited by Shaoken
Over on the John Cena YMMV page we have dy031101 adding complaining examples to the page, but about John Cena the man rather than John Cena the character. Looking through their edit reasons over the past few months he has either added new examples to attack the real life person or modified existing examples to launch attacks on him.
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Fighteer
moderator
05:09:17 AM 15th Oct 2014
Yikes. Suspended.
Shaoken
12:31:41 AM 16th Oct 2014
I think I might need a hand with the cleanup effort. Looking at their edit history they have made dozens to hundreds of edits across multiple pages all to spread negativity against one guy. Not since JIKTV have I been so glad a pro-wrestling troper has been suspended.
Candi
12:57:38 AM 16th Oct 2014
Are reversions feasible? Septimus might be able to do a couple if he's not too busy.
Shaoken
03:28:07 AM 16th Oct 2014
I think I've hit the only pages that they would be, but I'm worried about the trope pages since those would have plenty of legit edits since then. I'll probably handled it myself and hope nobody thinks I'm doing the opposite.

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Karxrida
Medium:
11:28:54 PM 15th Oct 2014
edited by Karxrida
A guy from Smogon was able to hack the Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire demo and found out the stats for all the new megas (and found Mega Hoopa).

http://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/2jd8j3/

http://pastebin.com/eKAmvkQn

The person in question is badged as a Pokemon researcher on their site, and they don't give those badges to anyone. I can confidently say this is a legit source and would like to know if I can use this info for troping on the character pages.
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Fighteer
moderator
09:08:31 PM 15th Oct 2014
Let's not post insider information here. I'd rather stick to official sources, and anyway, why are we listing Pokemon stats? That's not the purpose of a TV Tropes article.
Karxrida
09:30:45 PM 15th Oct 2014
edited by Karxrida
I don't mean listing stats by themselves, I mean using them for tropes like Glass Cannon and such. I also found out the guys leaking this info also discovered the Mega Latis and Diancie, if that means anything, but I understand your desire to be cautionary.
Irene
10:08:27 PM 15th Oct 2014
Posting they have Megas in general is useful trope-wise too.

But I agree to wait till an official announcement first(assuming we don't get the games before that).
Karxrida
11:28:54 PM 15th Oct 2014
The only new thing we got of relevance was exact Mega stats and what appears to be a forme of Hoopa.

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MarqFJA
Medium:
10:10:55 PM 15th Oct 2014
edited by MarqFJA
Is it just me, or are Amplified Animal Aptitude and Intellectual Animal suspiciously similar to each other?
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PaulA
10:10:55 PM 15th Oct 2014
As I understand it, Amplified Animal Aptitude is when an animal is depicted doing things that are cleverer than an animal would normally be capable of (like Lassie and other such heroic pets), while an Intellectual Animal is depicted as have a fully human level of intelligence (like Snoopy.

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Tsukireiko
Medium:
05:12:45 PM 15th Oct 2014
Is there a trope for a character who is extremely one-track minded? Like, there's a certain goal they'll always work towards or an obsession that if brought up makes them oblivious to other things?
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MyFinalEdits
05:12:45 PM 15th Oct 2014
Lost and Found is where you have to ask your question.

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TheNerfGuy
Medium:
04:26:49 PM 15th Oct 2014
Say someone has forgotten their password and cannot log in as a result. How does that person get their password back? Is there any way to retrieve it?
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Larkmarn
01:29:50 PM 14th Oct 2014
If they have an email connected to the site, they can use that. Otherwise I think I've seen people successfully make a second account (note: This works a lot better if they're not ban-evading) and ask here for a reset. Though I'm not 100% sure that worked.

There's also this thread.
DracMonster
01:31:44 PM 14th Oct 2014
Did you get a message from another account asking this? There a multiple ban-evader on the ban thread having a... well, it looks like Jerry Springer in there right now.
Fighteer
moderator
01:33:44 PM 14th Oct 2014
Welcome to TV Tropes has complete instructions for account recovery under Getting Known. Note that new accounts must wait 24 hours to post in the forums.
TheNerfGuy
01:56:24 PM 14th Oct 2014
@Drac: Actually, no. A friend of mine expressed an interest in helping out with a page I recently created and said that he's been unable to long in for a long time. I don't think he's banned on this site, but I don't know his actual handle here, either.
Larkmarn
01:58:34 PM 14th Oct 2014
What funny timing, given the drama Drac mentioned.
Fighteer
moderator
01:59:28 PM 14th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
If he doesn't know his handle or his password, he might as well make a new account. We can only track history data to attempt a recovery for a certain length of time.

Edit: Also, we are keeping an eye on that idjit in Edit Banned and have no intention of letting another sock slip through.
ryanasaurus0077
05:24:48 PM 14th Oct 2014
I read on Permanent Red Link Club that if a bad user is obnoxious enough about entry-pimping a work of his, it's liable to be banned here along with him. Just wondering, was that joker obnoxious enough about entry-pimping that fake movie that nobody else can ever recreate it even in the Darth Wiki namespace?
Fighteer
moderator
09:56:37 PM 14th Oct 2014
edited by Fighteer
Yes. One imagines that if he actually gets his movie made, we might release the lock. And when pigs fly, I'll hang out a net and have bacon for the rest of my life.
Candi
12:27:58 AM 15th Oct 2014
...I've got to remember not to eat or drink anything when reviewing this page. The unexpected humor can get you. :p
TheNerfGuy
03:04:25 PM 15th Oct 2014
Getting back to this query, the friend I spoke of tried using the means on the thread a total of ten times before giving up entirely. Plus, he doesn't speak like some of the guys on Editbanned, so I doubt he was banned here.
Fighteer
moderator
04:26:49 PM 15th Oct 2014
You mean he can't post in the "Forgot my password" thread? Be serious. At least PM a mod his username so we can cross-check.

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eroock
Medium:
03:20:19 PM 15th Oct 2014
Could this become the new format for the Compare/Contrast section? Dig it.

See Space Amish.
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DAN004
03:20:19 PM 15th Oct 2014
^ that's not a must, but it does look good.

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SomeNewGuy
Medium:
11:03:39 AM 15th Oct 2014
I think user BronyOfTheOctaves needs to be checked out.

He makes rampant overusuage of Bold Inflation, most of his edits (especially regarding tumblrs) come off as whining, and a lot of the things he whines about are either Insane Troll Logic or just plain Blatant Lies. Also, I think his grammar may need work in some areas.
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DracMonster
10:38:59 AM 15th Oct 2014
Seconded. Someone put the brakes on him! Gonna need some page cleanup once he's in the penalty box.
Larkmarn
10:39:44 AM 15th Oct 2014
Hrm.

... so yeah, he needs a chat.
Fighteer
moderator
11:03:39 AM 15th Oct 2014
Squished.

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liamash3
Medium: Literature
10:06:45 AM 15th Oct 2014
edited by liamash3
I'm writing a fanfic set in the world of SAO and wondering whether I'm allowed to add a tropes page for it. Is that something that I, the author of the work, am allowed to do? Or can only fans make a page?
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nrjxll
08:44:51 PM 14th Oct 2014
Creator-made pages are allowed, though you don't get any special control over the page and you really shouldn't add any YMMV tropes.
PPPSSC
08:47:18 PM 14th Oct 2014
edited by PPPSSC
You can make a page for your own work, but not add YMMV items or use the page as a primary source of Word of God (i.e. only include WOG that is verifiable by fans).

Ninja'd.
Elbruno
08:51:49 PM 14th Oct 2014
Always remember The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours. You might want to be sure about making it, 'cause there's no turning back for the trope article if you want to abandon the story.
liamash3
08:55:11 PM 14th Oct 2014
edited by liamash3
Thanks for the info! I only planned on adding tropes I can see while reading my story, and not things I've got planned/know about the characters that my readers don't. Unless I mention it in forum discussions, but that kind of stuff would be up to troper readers to add.

Define "special control". Stuff like deleting tropes or the page itself?

EDIT: Uhh...is there a way for me to change my TV Tropes username?
Candi
09:08:39 PM 14th Oct 2014
You can't delete the page, you can't ask for it to be deleted as long as the work is available in any form (include archives and caching), and once it's launched, you have no more control over it than any other troper, just as if you wandered over to Game of Thrones or such to edit it.

As far as I know, the only way to change your name is to create another account (I think you're allowed a certain number of alternates.) Be honest about it, and if you ever get suspended for anything, remember you can't edit on any account.

The Edit banned/suspended thread might be useful; a few people have been called in for ownership issues over the past few years.
PPPSSC
10:06:45 AM 15th Oct 2014
Yes, "no special control" pretty much means that you being the author doesn't allow you to delete the page if you abandon or delete the story and that you don't automatically win/become exempt from punishment for any Edit War you engage in.

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dsneybuf
Medium: Film
09:29:47 AM 15th Oct 2014
edited by dsneybuf
For the record, does an official rule advise against keeping And the Fandom Rejoiced pages clean of news that caused a Broken Base? I noticed AndTheFandomRejoiced.New Media has a warning not to list the end of Demo Reel for this reason, but AndTheFandomRejoiced.Marvel Cinematic Universe lists a number of events that might not please all fans (eg, the revelation of a third Mandarin, the news of a Civil War adaptation).
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Fighteer
moderator
09:25:28 AM 15th Oct 2014
It's all a matter of the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement. We try not to apply pre-censorship, but rather quash things that fans have proven they can't avoid fighting about.
dsneybuf
09:29:47 AM 15th Oct 2014
edited by dsneybuf
Since Civil War seems to have a sizable Hatedom, should I do something about the way AndTheFandomRejoiced.Marvel Cinematic Universe makes a movie adaptation sound like an inherently good thing? I've also noticed some people on other websites I visit admit that they dread the thought of that storyline becoming a movie.

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MarqFJA
Medium:
07:31:14 AM 15th Oct 2014
edited by MarqFJA
Am I the only one who sees little to no essential difference between Company Town and Privately Owned Society? Or am I missing something?
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Bisected8
09:59:26 AM 13th Oct 2014
edited by Bisected8
A CT is a settlement controlled by a single company specifically to draw its workforce from, which is a historical Truth in Television. They have power because working for them is ultimately the only source of employment.

A POS is a the opposite; multiple companies have displaced the government and the services it provides in an existing state. The inhabitants of the society might not work for them, but they have to get their services from them.
MarqFJA
03:14:55 AM 15th Oct 2014
Now that you put it that way, yeah, the distinction becomes clear... Though I don't see any indication in Privately Owned Society's description that it requires multiple companies (or other kinds of privately owned organization) doing the displacement. That is, it seems to be intended as a supertrope to Company Town, which in turn would have One Nation Under Copyright as its Exaggerated Trope-style subtrope.
Bisected8
04:05:58 AM 15th Oct 2014
edited by Bisected8
Yeah, my mistake; I assumed "everything is privately owned" = "public services were privatised piecemeal".

I think POS is better treated as the Science Fiction or futuristic counterpart to CT, rather than either being a subtrope, though.
MarqFJA
07:31:14 AM 15th Oct 2014
Ah, I get it. Like Privately Owned Society is Company Town taken to its logical conclusion, but with The Government and other non-private forces still retaining autonomous independence from the corporations and other private entities (even if they can't exert much control over the specific subset of national society that said private entities have taken as their turf), while One Nation Under Copyright is when Privately Owned Society is extended to The Government itself coming under the dominating megacorp's/megacorps' direct control/ownership.

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