• 2 May 27th, 2017 at 5:05PM
    Lastest Reply: 27th May, 2017 06:55:37 PM
    Can a page for Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle be made or should we wait until it's 100% confirmed? Reply

      I think it's best to wait until we get official confirmation.

      We don't put up leaked information anyway. We wait for proper information to come up.
  • 13 May 24th, 2017 at 5:05PM
    Lastest Reply: 25th May, 2017 10:01:28 PM
    The page Fire Emblem Awakening Grima And The Grimleal currently has Spoilers Off because they're a group of late-game antagonists and therefore spoilery by nature. However, one character is given an appearance in the postgame to Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows Of Valentia, which represents a major spoiler for that game. All of the spoilery tropes for the Echoes appearance were added to the Awakening page, and because of the Spoilers Off policy are untagged and unwarned-for. Note that despite being in the same series their stories are otherwise unrelated, so there would be no reason for the unwary to expect Echoes spoilers in the Awakening page.

    When I proposed moving all of the Echoes spoiler tropes to the Echoes character page, I was told that there is an unwritten rule against having multiple character entries for a single character, even if it's for appearances in different works. So I'm asking for an explanation of this unwritten policy, since none of the series' other character pages seem to follow it and might need to be changed, and I'm unsure what we're supposed to do about spoilers like this. Reply

      That sounds to me like an entry for one game in the series is on another game's work page.

      As I understand it, the rule is one character section per work. Sometimes the list of works will be indexed on a series page, and the character sheets linked off the series page rather than the individual works, in which case the tropes for all the works will be on the series character pages.

      Also, if you're moving as opposed to copying, especially to the correct works page, I don't personally see what the problem is.

      Sometimes a franchise has one character page for more than one work, however.

      It would be easier to rewrite the Spoilers Off rule for the characters to state "Awakening spoilers are untagged, Echoes spoilers are tagged" or similar.

      Septimus Heap: Fire Emblem isn't one of those franchises (except for the few cases of direct sequels with the same characters) since most games have entirely different casts with only a few old characters at most.

      bwburke94: That could be, except that we can't put spoilers above the trope line and there's currently a paragraph of introductory description on the Awakening page that describes the character's role in Echoes. I don't mind doing the work of moving them over.

      What I'm asking about is the policy that Karxrida described in the discussion page. Is it a real thing, and if so does it apply to spoilery cases like this? Common sense would say to move the tropes, but I don't want to break a rule by doing so.

      I was under the impression that it was thing because of that MCU character page reorganization from awhile back (I didn't mention it in the discussion because I just remembered it). Or maybe I'm conflating two different continuity situations, which is entirely possible.

      I also didn't think the policy was written down anywhere specific because a bunch of stuff only seems to be clarified by Word of Mod in ATT and not on any defined rules page.

      Anyway, I personally would rather have everything about Grima on one page regards of whether the policy actually exists or not. Spoiler warnings are already plastered on a bunch of Fire Emblem pages (so it becomes a "You Have Been Warned, read at your own risk for fear of seeing anything spoilery" situation) and I don't like the idea of splitting up a single version of a character between two pages.

      I don't really follow. If there's no policy in place, why is it better to force everyone to risk reading spoilers on a game they might not have played than have two entries for two very different depictions of a character? I mean, the Echoes page is already there, and it seems weird to make it the exception to the pattern that almost every other instance of a recurring character in the series follows (FE 7 characters in FE 6, Awakening characters in Fates, Camus/Sirius/Zeke, etc.)

      Clarify for me please: are two works involved, even though there's only one character in the discussion?

      Yes, but the two are are in continuity with each other.

      Each work should have its own characters page, especially if if the characters are treated differently in different works.

      They do have their own pages.

      The issue here is if a specific character should have entries on both pages or just one.

      It might be worth noting that the character is very different in depiction and role between the two works. The two games take place 3000 years apart and have no other story connections other than references to Gaiden (the game that Echoes is a remake of, which does not have Grima) characters as historical figures. I've even seen a few fandom theorists question whether it really is the same character or whether the Echoes one is a prototype.

      It sounds like the works are both part of the same 'verse, but otherwise unconnected. The character should be on both pages, if he appears in both works, with the tropes that apply to him in Work A on the pages for Work A and the tropes that apply to him in Work B on the page for Work B. Tropes that only apply to him in Work A should not be on the character page for Work B.

      Look at it this way: would you put the tropes that apply to Obi-Wan only in the prequels on the character pages for the films in the original trilogy?

      Alright, I've moved the tropes.
  • 8 May 22nd, 2017 at 8:08AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd May, 2017 10:28:34 AM
    One user, smeezus, and I, are coming to disagreement over the Final Fantasy Brave Exvius page. So far, they're being polite about it, but they keep adding in information about the Japanese version of the game (mostly to the YMMV page). I removed several items that aren't in the global version of the game, due to previous guidance I had received here regarding keeping the content consistent with the English release. However, my edit reason was ignored and the information in question was added back.

    I know that, supposedly, the global version is due to eventually receive all the content that the Japanese version has, but I don't want to take it as a given, particularly when several pieces of content have been tweaked compared to the Japanese version (sometimes being buffed, sometimes being nerfed). I'm of the belief that we can add the content in question if/when it's released globally and confirmed to work in the same fashion. Should I let this one go, or am I on the right track? Reply

      Based on what we do for other works with unreleased, but planned content, I say it should stay removed. For example, Zuljin was revealed early on for Heroes of the Storm but wasn't put in till a while after. For the most part we kept his entry hidden because he wasn't out yet. Similarly for Fire Emblem Heroes, Ike and Erika were clearly going to be in the game but because they weren't yet any info on them was related to things like Advertised Extra, or Sir Not-Appearing-in-This-Trailer.

      Also from Pokémon Sun and Moon we hid everything about Marshadow until it was announced.

      I would just comment out entries, but in many cases, the entries in question are intermingled with entries about content that is currently out. One example is the bullet point about Dual Wielding under Game Breaker - two of the proposed four entries are Japanese-only content. Unless there's Deep Wiki Magic I don't know about, I can't just comment out the two JP-only entries out of the whole bullet point. And spoiler tags doesn't seem right.

      I'm of the "cut now, add back later" camp (there's more that I could cut now regarding Japanese vs. global content, but I wanted to make sure that there wouldn't be a sweeping Edit War over it first), but I want to make sure I have consensus before proceeding further.

      (Confused)I do know that the wiki uses dub names and forbids the reveal of leaked material prior to their official reveal, but i guess this is the first time i heard that the mention of the material of an original version that was not translated yet is forbidden here.

      @MagBas - I didn't know about it until I had learned about the compromise over the furor over pre-release troping of Pokémon Sun and Moon - I had seen it unfold, but as I just kept out of it (not wanting to complicate matters further at the time), I hadn't been aware of the policy until afterwards, when someone (I think in a different ATT thread) told me about it.

      I get why the policy is in place - particularly in a case like this, where they do sometimes change content when it's translated to the different release. I just want to settle this in the proper channels - given that we already have one re-add of deleted information after a deletion with edit reason was made.

      I'm with Mag Bas. I agree with using the official translated names, but not being able to mention content that hasn't been translated yet doesn't make sense to me.

      Anything that's official should be allowed a mention somewhere, and we can specify that it's only in so-and-so version if that's the case. What if some content (like an entire storyline) never gets released in the translations? We'd have to make a separate page for the untranslated work just to be able to trope it.

      This is fairly obvious. The translation policy does not apply to anything other than names, so the Japanese version of the game is tropable.

      TV Tropes doesn't "use the dub names" for works. The policy is to Take a Third Option. What I've seen when parts don't get translated (or get translated differently) examples are written with "in the [release type] version," preceding the text.
  • 2 May 20th, 2017 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 21st May, 2017 12:40:31 AM
    There seems to be a disagreement taking place in the Injustice 2 YMMV faction where a troper is continuously deleting entries that are expressing dissatisfaction with the story of the game. While this troper, going by the handle Known Unknown, claims to be open to discussion and reason, the troper is demonstrably unwilling to compromise on his stance and has construed matters of interpretation of those he disagrees with as facts, of which his viewpoint is the only valid one. The troper in particular seems especially defensive in regards to YMMV responses from the fandom that are not sympathetic to Batman's portrayal in the game, and while fact checking was necessary for a number of the entries, his actions come off as egregious considering that a number of his justifications are up to interpretation as well (i.e. Superman having planned all along to use the Brainiac mothership to sieze control, while the character gave no indication of such intent until after realising some cities remained digitised).

    I suggest that some manner of lock be held in place until after the matter is resolved, and all parties involved are willing to communicate in a rational matter and agree on what areas both sides of the argument need to compromise on.


      You know, he has dropped a discussion topic in the Discussion page. You can go visit there and iron out your differences.

      We have two discussions on this already, so closing this one.
  • 4 May 20th, 2017 at 2:02AM
    Lastest Reply: 21st May, 2017 12:40:03 AM
    I was referred here as a place to put this to the attention of the mods.

    There is something of a situation brewing in the Injustice 2 page. The game's story has some plot points that resulted in a Broken Base situation, and some editors who reacted negatively have been filling the page with rants and complaints under the pretense of adding entries, most of which have little justification for being there and some of which repeatedly insert incorrect information - which is starting to make the page look like something out of Darth Wiki.

    Before, I attempted to remove the offending entires, but they found their way back. This time, I tried editing them to be more even and asking for discussion on the page and on the forum. I'm not sure if the page should be locked, but I'm starting to think it should at least be so for the interim. It's been taking nightly checks at this point, and I'm not sure the offending parts will not just be reposted.

    Please note that this is not, as of yet, an Edit War situation. But I do think it has the potential to become one. Reply

      The double post strikes again...

      This is already looking like Edit War to me. So who's reposted the entries?

      It seemed like a troper called JianGeGe. He even posts the same thing in this ATT page. Then again, I hope I have directed him to the Discussion page.


      As a matter of courtesy, please always link to the pages in question.
  • 4 May 20th, 2017 at 2:02AM
    Lastest Reply: 21st May, 2017 12:40:03 AM
    I was referred here as a place to put this to the attention of the mods.

    There is something of a situation brewing in the Injustice 2 page. The game's story has some plot points that resulted in a Broken Base situation, and some editors who reacted negatively have been filling the page with rants and complaints under the pretense of adding entries, most of which have little justification for being there and some of which repeatedly insert incorrect information - which is starting to make the page look like something out of Darth Wiki.

    Before, I attempted to remove the offending entires, but they found their way back. This time, I tried editing them to be more even and asking for discussion on the page and on the forum. I'm not sure if the page should be locked, but I'm starting to think it should at least be so for the interim. It's been taking nightly checks at this point, and I'm not sure the offending parts will not just be reposted.

    Please note that this is not, as of yet, an Edit War situation. But I do think it has the potential to become one. Reply

      The double post strikes again...

      This is already looking like Edit War to me. So who's reposted the entries?

      It seemed like a troper called JianGeGe. He even posts the same thing in this ATT page. Then again, I hope I have directed him to the Discussion page.


      As a matter of courtesy, please always link to the pages in question.
  • 9 Feb 15th, 2017 at 3:03PM
    Lastest Reply: 21st May, 2017 12:39:28 AM
    I was looking at the Canceled Video Games page and noticed Sonic X Treme isn't on there. At first i was confused, but I seem to recall there being a rule against troping that game because it was canceled. if that's the case what should be done about these other games on the page? Reply

      Seems rather strange that we'd have a page for nonexistent works, but I guess they would need to be indexed somewhere as long as the articles exist. That said, if it no longer has an article, then there's no point in indexing it.

      Isn't this sort of what Darth Wiki is for?

      I thought Darth Wiki was just for stuff that doesn't exist in any medium except some dude's imagination.

      At least with canceled video games, you have proof that they exist, like trailers or concept art.

      Several of the games on the canceled video games list were actually leaked to the public (such as Fallout: Van Buren, Thrill Kill, and Penn and Teller's Smoke and Mirrors; the latter is the source of the infamous "Desert Bus"), so they do exist—just not in the form that they would have if they had received an official release.

      It's not on uncommon for older unreleased games from before companies had such high security to get leaked, especially when it got far enough fully working beta copies were manufactured (which often made their way into the general public and now are highly sought after to collectors)

      There was also a fairly complete late beta of the canned Starfox II for the SNES leaked if I recall.

      Sorry for the bump, but I saw that Winter has ONE trope on it, and Final Fantasy Mystic Quest Remastered is a Fan Remake, not an 'official' game, fan game, or fan sequel. Should anything be done about those? (I was thinking of making a Sonic X-treme page too, since it has a lot of tropes given its multiple iterations.)

      I don't know if X-Treme could have a concise page for it. Sonic fans are still figuring it out what exactly it was. It has such a lengthy and mangled development process, and there were two different versions of the game. If the fan-remake ever comes out then it could get a page.

      ^^ Winter can safely be cut because of the lack of examples.

      FFMQR falls under the same rules as any other fangame that received a C&D - it can be troped, but don't link to download sites.

      Stub pages should be cut if the creating troper is inactive. And ATT threads should not be bumped to talk about completely different things.
  • 5 May 20th, 2017 at 6:06PM
    Lastest Reply: 21st May, 2017 12:36:40 AM
    The weapons page for Destiny has had a rough life, but it's deserving of a spot within the Destiny pages. The vast majority of the page referred to the Exotic weapons, which carry a bit of lore with them, which is normally left out of the game (Why Bungie thought it was a good idea to put all the backstory on a website somewhere is beyond me) and for some of us, can be used as a handy guide for determining the usefulness of an exotic in game. With Destiny 2 fast approaching, more exotics are coming and with it, more lore that gets flat out left off the pages because of having nowhere to go. The weapon foundries exist on the Character page for denizens of the tower. I request we either be allowed to restore the exotic weapons there or reinstate the wepons subpage for characters, because if you really want to split hairs, the Exotic Heavy Machine Gun Super Good Advice counts as a legitimate character on the grounds it was a sentient weapon created by Pahanin after watching his friends fall in the Vault of Glass. Reply

      I mean...Weapons isn't a proper namespace. It's not coming back as that. It was already cut and put on the PRLC by Berrenta.

      Other than that, I have no horse in this race. I suppose others can chime in, but I'm pretty sure the matter was settled weeks ago.

      The problem is most of the people in the Destiny discussion are not entirely happy with the removal. A lot of time and effort was put into that page only for it to be unceremoniously killed off. I have given an excellent argument on why the weapons can be added back to the characters page with no issues.

      I have no horse in this race either (and wasn't around for this discussion, so forgive me if this point has already been brought up), but why not just have Destiny Weapons as a character page, the same way other games have pages for races, NPC classes, etc.?

      You'd have to convince the mods why the weapons should get a character page, especially if there's a dedicated Destiny Wiki out there with info on the weapons.

      Having a Weapons/ namespace is a no go. We are not going to splinter material like that.

      As for a Weapons-Character page, weapons are not characters. We've already had disputes over races counting, folks. I think the support among the staff for weapons will be tepid at best.
  • 1 May 18th, 2017 at 11:11AM
    Lastest Reply: 18th May, 2017 11:21:51 AM
    Okay, this might sound really stupid, but I remember a weird game on the internet where a human crash lands on a planet and has to get home (I think). The planet is inhabited by talking monkeys in a school, and you often had multiple dialogue options or actions to pick from in certain scenes, all with different results.

    I don't know why I remember this since I played it around like, 2007-2009, but it made me curious of what the name of the game is. Anyone who knows what I'm talking about? Reply
  • 2 May 17th, 2017 at 12:12PM
    Lastest Reply: 17th May, 2017 01:11:26 PM
    Why is ff14's main page locked (and not listed on the lock page)? Because it needs a minor update. Reply

      Use this thread to suggest edits. I don't know why it's locked, though.

      Well, the edit history for the page shows that normal tropers could freely edit it until it became too long and it had to be split into sub-pages, and from then only moderators edited it. I presume the main page is locked because with the intro deemed good enough and the sub-pages open for editing there wasn't really a need to keep the main page open for editing, lest some logically deficient—or simply way too tired—person decides that this is a good enough reason to unify it or something.

      Mind you, I doubt something like that commonly happens, but when there's as little actual content on the page as is on the main page for FF14, I can see the logic in making them safe by locking them when the alternative is a risk, however low, of someone messing it up in some very-much-not-funny way.

      I believe this is also why the page is not listed as locked: those listed generally are locked because of prior vandalism and because they often are ... volatile to deal with, while in the case of this one it seems to be more an anti-stupid measure put in place because it was easier that way but it doesn't, strictly speaking, need to be locked.
  • 5 May 9th, 2017 at 11:11AM
    Lastest Reply: 12th May, 2017 06:31:25 AM
    Arial has had a couple of spelling and coding mistakes in her work for the Magnificent Bastard entry for Fawful. I corrected every spelling mistake and coding error that I saw but I feel like she might need a bit of a talk and a PM. It was pretty bad. You can see what she put and what I fixed here. Reply

      That's also a Wall of Text entry Arial added. Sheez, is there a way to condense that?

      Yeah that as well. Maybe just condense it to what he did in ML Bi S? He didn't have a role in Partners in Time and Superstar Saga he was The Dragon so he didn't do much in his actions besides revive Cackletta and occasionally fight the Mario Bros.

      EDIT: Got rid of some sentences that weren't necessary. Hopefully it's a bit better now. I think he's a user that deserves a suspension. It's pretty clear that he hasn't looked at the pages on what not to do on this site.

      Not necessary reply. Delete this comment mods.


      Suspension issued.
  • 4 May 10th, 2017 at 3:03PM
    Lastest Reply: 11th May, 2017 01:20:08 PM
    I was thinking about days ago. Why consoles don't have YMMV or even Trivia pages? Is because they are under Useful Notes namespace? I think there are a lot of room for YMMV in these pages. Reply

      Well, they're UN pages so any "trivia" should be written into the description.

      But, also, the useful notes pages are to document facts about real things. They are not creator pages or work pages, there can be no related trivia or ymmv because of this — they are an objective information source, nothing else. They are outside the remit of troping.

      Also the reason game consoles were sent to the Useful Notes namespace is because in the past, the YMMV pages of consoles either attracted flame wars of all types including creator bashing, fandom bashing, etc. or had a high probability of attracting said types of flame wars. I'll leave it at that as per Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment.

      So, it was moved to avoid flame wars. Like what happened with Sue pages. Okay, I get it, thanks for the replies
  • 4 May 9th, 2017 at 12:12PM
    Lastest Reply: 10th May, 2017 02:27:41 PM
    While reading the Video Game section of Never Live It Down, I came across this paragraph:

    • The Mushroom Kingdom when Bowser became a greater threat than before in Super Mario Galaxy. It's bad enough that they still considered him a threat even without realizing he was more of a nuisance than a threat since Paper Mario, but this made it clear that they have to do something to prevent him from being a threat despite the necessity of a game. Worse still, in Super Mario Galaxy 2, they have no idea Bowser craves Stars for his plots and have a Star Festival AGAIN! Then Bowser shows up "HUUUUUUUUUGGGGE!!", and even GREATER threat. Despite how good the game is, this is TOO MUCH! And it cemented the Mushroom Kingdom's status as a bunch of lazy dipshits who wouldn't even try to prevent that kind of menace from happening. Preventing Bowser from being a threat is a necessity now, not because it's easy (it's not), but it's a matter of life and death and a necessity for survival. And if a threat the level of Bowser in the Galaxy games can be prevented, especially due to other recent less-than-stellar evil plans.

    I feel like the paragraph doesn't explain why this is a Never Live It Down moment, instead devolving into complaining about the supposed Idiot Plot of Super Mario Galaxy 2.


      The example is not just a wall of text, but far too complainy, reading more like an infuriated rant than an example. It should be edited for clarity and the shouting removed ("HUUUUUUUGGGGE!!" may be fitting for a forum flame, but not for a trope example).

      EDITED: But since this is a YMMV trope, I'm not sure if we're allowed to edit it for these reasons.

      "they have no idea Bowser craves Stars for his plots and have a Star Festival AGAIN!"

      Yeah about that. Super Mario Galaxy 2 basically pretends Super Mario Galaxy 1 never happened due to the universe being reset at the end of the first game. So there's no case for Never Live It Down. Really there's no case for any Never Live It Down in the Mario Galaxy series because Never Live It Down is supposed to be some character or place gets a negative reputation that they can never shake off. As far as I know I haven't seen any negative reception about the Mushroom Kingdom, just Peach herself though and that's because of the Mario franchise as a whole.

      The Toad species only has negative feedback for being the sole defining race of NPCs in the Mario RPG games. But that's opening a can of worms, so I'll stop there as per Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment. I'd personally would axe the entire bullet point that Troper Princess Gwen quoted.

      As I recollect, YMMV can be edited for natter and complaining, especially when the Audience Reaction trope isn't one that involves a negative reaction in the first place.

      I've removed the paragraph.
  • 6 Feb 17th, 2017 at 10:10PM
    Lastest Reply: 9th May, 2017 12:22:53 PM
    So, the Character page for Weapons in Destiny was deleted (not saying it shouldn't have) is there a more appropriate sub page we could recreate it though? I think it was originally created precisely to keep the main page from getting jammed with the hilariously large amount of Tropes tied to them Reply

      Well, use the main page? We cannot make assumptions about which tropes people like more.

      Is it possible to have a subpage for weapons that's not a character page? Some main pages have subpages for "Tropes A-F" etc, so shouldn't it be possible to do something similar for tropes pertaining to inficidual weapons?

      A lot of the examples on that page were ZC Es, so re-adding them isn't for the best.

      You can split the page into alphabetical segments. The point is judging whether you should.

      And don't restore ZC Es.

      I recently tried restoring the Weapons sub-page, but it was cut. Would it be possible for me to see the history of the page so I can move the weapon tropes to the main page?

      See this related ATT thread about the Weapons.Destiny page.
  • 1 May 8th, 2017 at 4:04PM
    Lastest Reply: 8th May, 2017 06:26:53 PM
    Does the Bonus Boss tab on Kingdom Hearts I look OK? Reply
  • 4 May 7th, 2017 at 5:05PM
    Lastest Reply: 8th May, 2017 07:03:46 AM
    Wasn't the page Weapons.Destiny originally moved to the character sheet, then deleted altogether with the argument that it was invalid as a character page? If so, what exactly are the options here? Leave the page in its own unindexed category, or delete it regardless? Reply

      For reference, it's the only page in the Weapons/ namespace.

      Based on other pages that have been cut for being comprised solely of information similar to what's on Weapons.Destiny, I think the page could just be cut.

      For the record, it's restored by Valiran.

      One thing for sure. Weapons is invalid namespace, so it can't be leave where it is.

      Added to the cutlist.

      Page has been cut and sent to the Permanent Red Link Club.

      User will be messaged.
  • 10 May 2nd, 2017 at 9:09AM
    Lastest Reply: 3rd May, 2017 06:06:57 PM
    This is one of those "you should remember this; you've been here for ages" questions.

    I seem to recall that there's a general rule that we use when something gets renamed in translation - you can use either the original name or the translated name, but you're not supposed to change around what someone else used (similar to how you don't just change the spelling of someone else's example just because they used a different form of English than what you use; the "color vs. colour" debate).

    In this case, the specific page is for Final Fantasy Brave Exvius. The character in question was called "Majin Fina" in the original Japanese version of the game, but the Global version of the game uses "Dark Fina" for her. I'm noticing one editor is going through and replacing all of the examples of "Dark Fina" with "Majin Fina" - should I be sending a message about that to the editor in question, or should I just let this one go? Maybe it's just me, but I worry that going solely by a name that isn't used in the global version of the game is a bit too "inside baseball" for the reader who isn't getting too far into the game's fandom. Reply

      I'm pretty sure the rule is always "most recent translation", meaning that the other editor is wrong.

      I suggest messaging them.

      Yup, latest official English translation is the rule. So message him and revert the changes

      Wait, if that's true then what's up with Smile Pretty Cure!? Should that page have the Japanese names changed to the English translations that are listed under Dub Name Change? ...Actually, does that mean that Glitter Force should be the new page and Smile Pretty Cure should be made into a redirect? I know there's a lot of hostility towards the dubbed names, after all.

      ^I believe the short answer is yes.

      ^^ Apparently someone objected to my apparent pro-dub stance there, as they said the following on Livejournal:

      How dare I make any effort to defend the integrity of the Japanese original, so has said a certain rogue Troper who goes by the name bwburke94. What's worse, it had just been said that the goal of TV Tropes is to catalog tropes and not take sides in a fandom civil war, and yet there goes bwburke94 doing just that—taking sides in a fandom civil war. Specifically, he has sided with the decidedly blasphemous pro-Glitter Force camp and decided flat out that TV Tropes would use the Glitter Force names from now on. What'll he do next, enter into an unholy alliance with the Tumblr SJW who calls herself Midoriri? As if her PrecureOCs cult of extremists, which basically adheres to the teachings of the Unholy Tumblr SJW Bible, didn't already have enough followers... but anyway, this is war, and there is clearly no neutral ground: either you're for the Glitter Force dub or you're against it, and I am most definitely against it.

      For the record, I am not in any way part of that fandom. I've long objected to "most recent official English translation" because of cases like this, where the fandom ignores dub names and sticks to the original language. What I said in that specific case was that the current policy obliged us to use English names, not that I preferred using English names myself.

      ^ Looks like that guy could use some cheese to go with his vintage whine.

      I think maybe we need a page that details the "most recent translation policy" so that (1) I can be certain whenever I say that's policy and (2) we have a place to direct people whenever they want to get in an edit war over having pages be in their true, untranslated, non-dubbed anime form!

      (too much sarcasm, or not enough?)

      The rule is posted on How to Create a Works Page.

      That's just about using the English translation for page titles. I'm talking "enough people ask and enough people make this mistake or deliberately go against it that it needs a policy page" page.

      Yeah, I agree that having a policy page would make the issue much more clear. The current policy does seem to extend what's written on How to Create a Works Page to apply to the body of a page, but it's implicit.

      Anyhow, having given this 24 hours and seeing consensus, I'm going to change the pages to reflect the name used in the global translation (except for the note in Dub Name Change, which mentions both names), and I'll send a note to the troper referring to this conversation.

      Maybe split the difference. Suggest an edit to the rule on the existing How to page clarifying that 'most recent English translation' is the policy. Maybe with a note that it's to prevent the constant back and forth edits that result otherwise. (/snark)(/not serious)
  • 6 Apr 26th, 2017 at 9:09PM
    Lastest Reply: 27th Apr, 2017 07:35:34 AM
    The Franchise/Tales Series page has been cut for the reason of "Misused Franchise/ redirect [nombretomado] " I'm not quite sure what this means. Should it be recreated? Reply

      No. It's now under "VideoGame/TalesSeries". A franchise requires a series of works to be in 3 different unique mediums. Tales Series doesn't apply to that, thus, the franchise page was incorrectly used and cut.

      Franchises need at least three different types of media for a series to apply.

      Well, I found this list on wikipedia.

      Three different types of media on this wiki, with fully developed work pages for each.

      And anyway, the Franchise page should then be used as a hub to link to those media and for info about the franchise as a whole. It doesn't get to replace the page for a video game series, for example.

      If we did that, we would end up with Franchise pages for everything when it isn't appropriate.

      However, with the way this is going, should this be taken to Trope Talk for further discussion?

      There's no discussion, because there's nothing to discuss. We're just stating the rule.
  • 1 Apr 26th, 2017 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 26th Apr, 2017 09:14:50 PM
    It looks like troper Flare Habanero deleted, without reason, a seemingly legitimate bullet point of the Promoted Fanboy trope. There's no reason listed but it seems to just be vandalism relating to some internet drama. Reply

      Just asked the user via PM.

      Another user did revert them, but I had to message them in regards to their choice of edit reason.
  • 7 Apr 26th, 2017 at 12:12PM
    Lastest Reply: 26th Apr, 2017 12:52:31 PM
    I'm thinking of adding a "Character Ideas" JFF page to Super Smash Bros so we can present all our great ideas. I don't know if I'm allowed to do that, so I'm asking first. Reply

      There's already a JFF page for Smash. This can't go there instead?

      @MegaMarioMan: It's full of folders, though. I think it would be best to make it its own page.

      The current JFF page has over 2,000 inbounds, so you'd be competing with that. Putting the information where fans expect it (i.e. the first JFF page) would probably be best. If the page gets so huge because of this new information, then it could probably be split, but at that point there'd be enough attention to that new information that fans would probably see it (or try to look for it).

      @WaterBlap: Which is why I'll just add a link to JustForFun.Super Smash Bros Character Ideas at the top of the page.

      ^ I'm just saying that it'll probably get more attention (and therefore traffic) on the first page. Linking the pages internally was a pretty obvious option, but I don't think it'll be as successful if it's put on a new page.

      @WaterBlap: So, I can start the section on the current page, and then if it gets too big/too cluttered, we split it, right?

      ^ I was referring to when the page gets so long it needs to be brought up in the too-long page repair thread. Not just subjectively really long. Really, I was talking about if it gets so many people adding so much stuff that the page gets the warning message that it's too big.
  • 12 Apr 23rd, 2017 at 12:12AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Apr, 2017 12:20:31 PM
    Dragon95 is making some bad edits on the character pages for Fate Grand Order regarding both information accuracy and edit quality. I asked him to stop in what was intended to be a polite manner, but he seems to have taken it as a personal attack and may be starting an edit war. I'm asking for help here now since I don't think there's much I can do in this situation.

    Also, I haven't used this section in years so please let me know if I'm just supposed to pm a mod or something about this. Don't really remember how that works. Reply

      Um I've been watching these pages rather recently since the announcement of the localization, and I believe your making a false report. It seems your the one who has taken a grudge since he correctly stated the page contradicted your statement. Apart from that he seems to have just added and corrected edits, though I've sent a PM seeing as I braked with him on the persona 5 page and asked him for his input here.

      There may be other bad edits on the page, but that doesn't mean more should be added. What he's saying is factually incorrect.

      I'll probably clean up the pages later but from what he's saying it seems like he might just readd that stuff anyway, like he did with the one example I deleted.

      Again i saw no bad edits, and you appeared to be in the wrong with the argument so I suggest you don't make any more edits until you explain why you are making this false report.

      Pretty much he got sore about me showing the page had evidence against his argument, so next thing I know I got a PM sent to me Rudely and falsely acusing me of getting my info from 3D rate sources(when I had helped contribute translations to the other wiki) and also falsely acusing me of bad edits despite history showing me doing basically nothing but contributing and removing false info and correcting misusage of tropes. So after I rudley replied back he had no right to make false accusations he responded by trying to intimidate me saying there was "other ways he could go about this" to which I replied he held no more power over the page than I did and he had no means to report me to the mods considering I did nothing wrong. So now here we are with him trying to get me suspended with false info.

      * Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder: Downplayed example, she did claim that she have promised her soul to another. Though the question of what dimension that person might be in, or even what sort of character he or she is, eludes her as if it's shrouded in fog. referring it as another matter altogether, she proclaimed her respect and offered her entire heart and soul to the Protagonist.

      This is incorrect. The character in question notes that the protagonist is pretty neat but that she's dedicated to someone else.


      * Beast and Beauty: The Beast to Euryale's Beauty.

      was wrong because the two are teased together.

      * Broken Pedestal: To say Lev became this to her may be a understatement.
      * Did They or Didn't They?: With quite a few servants.

      ZCEs. There's some other formatting issues as well.

      There are a few other edits which indicate... I'm not really sure how to put this? But he seems to be trying to delete any kind of hint that any character might be in love with anyone but the protagonist, which is totally wrong. There are quotes from the author about how he's trying to avoid doing exactly that because it angers fans when their favorite characters fall in love in with another character.

      That's not all of it, but basically it seems like the majority of his edits are either wrong or add nothing to the page.

      I've suspended Dragon95 and Day Vog, because of the terrible grammar mainly. And yes, this is the right place to bring up complaints about wiki-side editors.

      Ok first ad for most that first edit was not me... and buety and the beast was deleted because while he had had feelings for her and she sympathy for him it didn't go beyond that or show the character development that usually goes with the trope. Apart from that Nasu has stated FGO character will become there own though he did voice his concerns with the issue.

      The Beast and Beauty example is a ZCE as well.

      The issue with the first edit was that the entry, which was sort of wrong in the first place, got changed to be even more inaccurate by dropping references to her actual love interest. Beast and Beauty could actually use some expansion because the pair is definitely an example and even my edit didn't quite fix that, but I really don't think that's why you deleted it. If it was, you'd have deleted a lot more than that. Taking the last two edits into account as well as a few others, the general pattern seems to be a weird kind of possessiveness of the characters as well as possibly taking offense at them being paired off with someone other than the self insert protagonist.

      Going to bed now. We can talk about this later if necessary.

      The issue was you making false accusations and starting a edit war.

      Day and Dragon have both been bounced for ban evasion and... also possibly being the same person. Please revert their edits if it hasn't been done already.

      (I don't understand how the mods put up with the weirdness sometimes.)

      We drink a lot. :P Locking this thread, since it's resolved.
  • 2 Apr 21st, 2017 at 11:11AM
    Lastest Reply: 21st Apr, 2017 11:38:47 AM
    On the YMMV page for Dangan Ronpa 3, I deleted an example for Hell Is That Noise, since it is not a YMMV trope. TaylorHuuga has since added it back. Reply

      Hell Is That Noise is "This trope is about the psychological effect of a repeated noise to the character(s) in the story. " If it's the background music and the characters don't hear it, it's not an example.

      It's also not YMMV and therefore should not be on the YMMV page.

      I suspended the user and Madrugada removed the example.
  • 3 Apr 20th, 2017 at 3:03PM
    Lastest Reply: 20th Apr, 2017 05:47:17 PM
    I want to look into making a redirect to the Third-Person Seductress page, as I've found credible male counterpart examples (Third Person Seducer) that fit exactly with the trope (Solid Snake of Metal Gear Solid, Nathan Drake of Uncharted, Chris Redfield of Resident Evil to name a few), but I got my contributions and examples erased by another troper claiming that my entries were invalid due to their explanation of the trope being a double standard (despite it being featured nowhere on the page), with the troper acknowledging the male examples, but disregarding them anyway due to this inexplicable "Double Standard" apparently applied to this trope.

    So I must ask you, is it okay to add a male redirect and examples to this trope? Am I in the wrong for doing so? Reply

      A Third-Person Seductress exploits sex appeal to market to a primarily straight male audience. To be valid, a Rare Male Example would have to be just as exploitative at using sex appeal to market to a primarily straight female and/or gay male audience.

      That doesn't sound like Nathan Drake or Chris Redfield to me. Maybe Solid Snake; according to his entry in MrFanservice.Video Games, his creator went to a great deal of trouble to get his butt just right.

      Alright, I'm starting to understand now. But then why isn't there a Double Standard explanation within the trope page? If one didn't know any better they'd assume it's part of the Fanservice page.

      Because no one has put it there yet.

      A wiki only has as much content as the fans give it, and fans don't think of everything.
  • 1 Apr 19th, 2017 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Apr, 2017 08:33:15 PM
    I apologize for this potentially dumb question as I am new to this site. I was browsing some head scratchers and had a question of my own, and wanted to add another bullet point to start a new topic. The only resource I found for this was "new topic" but this only seemed to post it on a separate page, not the one people are posting and replying to. Any way you can help with that? Thanks. Reply
  • 7 Apr 17th, 2017 at 6:06PM
    Lastest Reply: 18th Apr, 2017 03:24:24 PM
    The description for LittleBigPlanet includes a large (paragraph-long) Wikipedia quote. It includes attribution, so it's not technically plagiarism, but still...is that kosher? Reply

      Wikipedia pages can always be edited, so quotes from the site may lose accuracy. Maybe do some paraphrasing?

      But how is it from a legal point of view?

      It's chancy, because we don't use the same license Wikipedia does. It's also not in keeping with our standards. We don't want to become a wikipedia mirror even if it's "technically legal"; we want our own content.

      Change it.

      Speaking as a Wikipedia editor, I can say it's not just "chancy", it's plainly "illicit"; their license does not permit us to relicense text as noncommercial.

      OK, then. I couldn't recall offhand which of us was using the stricter license.

      The question is whether the material from Wikipedia is covered under Fair Use — that is, it must not substantially reproduce the work and it must be transformative in nature. If we're quoting Wikipedia, or citing them, it's generally okay. If we're copying whole paragraphs for a substantially similar use (as in the description of a work article), it's not okay.

      Okay. I'll remove it.