• 4 Aug 19th, 2017 at 6:06PM
    Western Animation
    Lastest Reply: 20th Aug, 2017 10:04:05 AM
    pgj1997, Realshow, and Sugarp1e1 are edit warring over whether to have emojis in the text to describe the characters or not. The characters page also has this issue.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=WesternAnimation.TheEmojiMovie Reply

      A) They don't belong anywhere on the wiki unless it's a page where you should be posting the images, and B) This is ridiculous. Pgj 1997 seems to really pouring on the "cause I want to" reasoning over and over. He doesn't care about proper context, is effectively doing a "use image to create context" now, refusing to use proper words. This is also the second Edit War he started. It's not just the other users, who shouldn't be doing this, but this user is causing trouble more and more.

      I can't remember where it is at the moment, but somewhere there's something saying emojis and emoticons are Not Allowed on wiki pages. Forums are a different matter.

      That was Tips Worksheet and the edit tips. I've backed out the latest emoji restoring edit.

      For the work page of a movie focused on emojis, I think we should be willing to make an exception to the rule.... But that should take a dedicated discussion thread to decide. Said discussion is too long for an ATT thread.
  • 6 Aug 18th, 2017 at 9:09PM
    Lastest Reply: 20th Aug, 2017 09:04:44 AM
    RandomX has problems with long-winded entries, non-neutral wording, adding both false and unconfirmed information, shipping bias, grammar issues, spelling issues, and not ending their edits on a definitive concluding note. They keep making these mistakes, and it's leaving work for other tropers to fix.

    Their edit history. Reply
  • 8 Aug 19th, 2017 at 10:10PM
    Lastest Reply: 20th Aug, 2017 08:10:42 AM
    Deletions were made to Trivia.Mass Effect Andromeda by Spline Ticker that looks like it was removed in an angry rant. Should I restore them? Reply

      No, because none of that has any basis in reality. Do you see a Franchise Killer entry on every work that doesn't have a sequel released six months after it came out? No? Then it's just as stupid as that would be.

      All of that stuff is unsubstantiated garbage.

      We're not interested in agendas here. Righting Great Wrongs isn't an acceptable reason. I agree false information should be gone, but it should've been brought to discussion or handled in a far more reasonable manner. You're acting extremely angry over it and haven't given any proof it's incorrect. It needs to be talked about rationally. I'm all for pulling it to Discussion instead so we can do some research.

      I'm also wondering if maybe some of these could be somewhat problemsome in ways(flame bait, etc).

      It would not surprise me if that page (and, god help us, the YMMV page) need a cleanup for complaining - the game has a really peculiarly disproportionate hostility thing going on in general. But it should definitely be discussed, not done unilaterally.

      I notion to restore it (for now). It'd be better to get a neutral opinion on it, rather than one from an overzealous fan.

      The tweet from Hudson has said the franchise isn't going anywhere. The article itself said specifically for Andromeda, not the series in general.

      Can we get a check to see if Spline Tickler isn't our old "retakers are scumbags" friend? The agendaposting and vitriol seems awfully familiar.

      Is that the ban evader who always takes off anything remeotely negative about Mass Effect / EA Games?

      Whoever they are, suspensions have been issued.
  • 9 Aug 19th, 2017 at 6:06PM
    Lastest Reply: 20th Aug, 2017 08:10:19 AM
    Not only it has an an English dub name "Angel The Girl Of The Flowers" but this entry in particular isnt kosher as far as I know. Tastes Like Diabetes: The opening theme, oh so much. People who've never seen the show before will assume that they're in for kodomomuke fare... Which it is, but don't forget that this is a Japanese production. until the episode starts.

    I really want to correct this if possible. Reply

      Is there a reason you can't?

      Because while I hate the entry and would gladly rename the page, I cant do it without consensus first. Besides, I cant move stuff. I dont know how.

      Well, we'll gladly help you improve. :)

      How to Move a Page is a place to start.

      Thank you Irene! You rock. What should I change the entry to?


      My bad

      I did wrong.

      Looking at Wikipedia the official U.S. name is simply Angel, and the U.K. name is Flower Angel, though both have ZIV International credited as the company. Lunlun the Flower Girl seems to come from dubbed movies released in '09, so the "latest translation" rule may kick in.
  • 2 Aug 19th, 2017 at 11:11PM
    Lastest Reply: 20th Aug, 2017 06:22:15 AM
    So there used to be a joke on the Dummied Out page, where the second paragraph would be enclosed in the C "comment" markup.

    This has been deleted and re-added several times, with seemingly no actual discussion involved at any point. Currently, the joke is gone, but the source code comment explaining it is still there.

    Can we get an official ruling on this? Reply

      I don't think six pieces of markup that only slightly modify the text are that big of a deal.

      I recall the joke using specially colored text (to mimic the display of various IDEs and programming-oriented text editors), at least at one point, which is no longer a feature on the wiki. Maybe that was a factor in its last removal, but it's odd to have the explanation there without the joke itself, though admittedly the part about dummied-out text on a page about dummied-out content is amusing on its own.
  • 6 Aug 17th, 2017 at 2:02PM
    Lastest Reply: 20th Aug, 2017 04:44:18 AM
    1 august, Joe Merl added a Steven Universe example in Like Reality Unless Noted. I questioned in the "Is this an example" thread and, after the answer, removed the example in 2 august. 13 august, Goblin Cipher included the example again. I sent a pm explaining the situation but they not answered by far.

    Permission to remove the example again? Reply

      it's been reworded trying to make it have more context, but that's possible Edit War.

      Will they need a tap on the shoulder?




      Meh, remove it again.

  • 2 Aug 20th, 2017 at 1:01AM
    Western Animation
    Lastest Reply: 20th Aug, 2017 03:41:59 AM
    Frozen's Funny, Heartwarming, Nightmare Fuel and Tearjerker pages all start with "Frozen is one funny film", "Frozen is one emotionally gruelling film". Isn't that non-kosher, or at least too nattery, since the examples themselves are what have to show that the movie is funny, etc.? Reply

      Repetitive but not natter.

      Lots of works have such phrases, and they are annoying to me too, but what the mod say goes first and foremost.
  • 1 Aug 19th, 2017 at 6:06PM
    Lastest Reply: 20th Aug, 2017 01:49:48 AM
    FurtivePack has terrible grammar. Reply
  • 2 Aug 19th, 2017 at 12:12PM
    Western Animation
    Lastest Reply: 20th Aug, 2017 12:25:32 AM
    Episodes 37-52 in english, and according to the trivia page, There were also early episodes and "M's Again" which are also lost. Does anybody have any info on these Missing Episodes. Reply

      I'm not sure this is the page for this?

      Better try on the You Know That Show page.
  • 2 Aug 19th, 2017 at 5:05PM
    Lastest Reply: 20th Aug, 2017 12:05:08 AM
    I was on the trope page for Rank Inflation in video games and saw that, instead of just telling us about the rank system in Megaman X7, just said "X7 sucks." Really? Going off topic just to complain? We should really crack down on that kind of stuff. Reply

      I see you deleted it. It was a Zero-Context Example. Was also there when the subpage was created.

      Complaining on the main wiki isn't allowed. Edit/delete/report as it comes up.
  • 26 Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:01PM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 09:17:31 PM
    In addition to issues with indentation and (to a lesser degree) grammar, JohnHowarth has made bizarre edits (such as asking why Kidz Bop doesn't cover songs about drugs on a Headscratchers page) that may or may not be vandalism/trolling. I've sent him a message regarding his indentation, but I'm mentioning it here in case we need to take action. Reply

      Kidz Bop? I feel like I'm in a Jacksfilms parody. Someone actually takes that seriously enough to write diatribes about it?

      If it exist, someone is probably on TV Tropes complaining about it.

      It's like Rule 34, but for the site instead of porn.

      As an aside, I don't really see why we have a need for a WMG page for Kidz Bop; it's literally just people guessing what's going to be on the next CD.

      Isn't that misuse of something even as flexible as WMG?

      Bumping because he's now answering his own Headscratchers queries.

      Calling him in.

      He's back.

      Settles that nicely as a vandal. Bounced both and reverted the most recent edit.

      Is this him?

      Yep. Bounced again.

      ^^^^^^ Sorry to derail the conversation but serious question: Is posting an answer along with your own Headscratcher really considered vandalism? I've done that sometimes too, with the best of intentions, and never knew this is against the rules.

      There's no rule against replying to one's own headscratchers posts, but it is weird.

      He could have had a polite discussion in the EBS thread -his POV, the mods saying how we do things here, etc. It would've been cool.

      Ban evading rather puts the kibosh on that option.

      Back again. Can't even make a halfway new name. :P

      Can they be google bounced? Or are is that not an option this time?

      He might be even more persistent than Nate.

      @LB7979: It's not just that he answered his own Headscratchers. He also posted inane, self-explanatory Headscratchers (such as "why doesn't Kidz Bop sing songs about drugs?").


      ^^Ssshhh! He Who Must Not Be Named has an almost psychic resonance for when he's mentioned here!

      (/kidding... kind of)

      Anyway, the nameless one has a record of years, so I hope this guy tires quickly.

      He's still here…

      Bounced, reverted. We're working on a preventative measure.

      Honestly it seems like cutting or locking the page would be simplest if the vandalism is that obsessively focused...

      Has our vandal/troll focused solely on that page? Because it would be a shame to have to lock a page because of one asshole.

      @jameygamer: he's edited two subpages of the same work.

      Possibly back? New account and all. Might be a coincidence, though.

      Wow, that dude refuses to stop doesn't he?

      No IP match, and geolocation points to two areas too far to be one person. Best to keep an eye out. Are their edits similar to John Howarth's in any way?

      I was weary right away, due to the constant ban-evading. But nothing similar. Anyway, his entries are completely full of mediocre grammar(no capitalization), outright answering his own queries over and over again. It's really strange. We can see it near the end of the page which looks strange as is. It seems he has no idea how to format at all nor possibly care. Maybe just needs a quick tap on how to properly add. Also, are you supposed to Joss and Confirm your own entries? I doubt that's kosher.

      Also, he was known for constantly answering his own stuff, so that might be it. Also, considering the time taken to get a new account, the idea he moved isn't too farfetched. I do concur it's a bit hard to tell, though. I'll keep watching. Repeated edits are the usual style of evaders.
  • 1 Aug 19th, 2017 at 7:07PM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 07:10:15 PM
    There a page related to the Complete Monster trope that shows a list of frequently suggested characters that didn't make the grade; some of them failed the test because they were billed as "not heinous enough". The term seems really vague and doesn't seem adequate in terms of resolving a conflict as to whether or not someone qualifies as a CM. Reply

      The clean-up thread, which is linked on the trope page, determines the standards for the trope. You can go read through it or talk to them and they'll explain exactly what those standards are, including heinousness.
  • 7 Aug 18th, 2017 at 4:04PM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 02:12:02 PM
    I've just realized that the term "White Savior" seems to have emerged as the more broadly accepted name for what we call Mighty Whitey. Does that sound right to anyone else? I'm not proposing a rename, just a redirect for search purposes. Reply

      Redirects are free, AFAICT.

      ^ Redirects for works are free. Redirects for tropes have to be vetted through this thread, since normal users can't create pages in Main/ outside of TLP: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=gsjp7dldjh2dwdelcha2hu17

      So I went to post the request for the redirect on the linked thread but I realized that's been made a redirect for White Man's Burden (which has changed definitions since the last time I looked at it?) I think that might be backwards in any case.

      Not well versed enough in these tropes to figure out the correct target. Ask perhaps in Trope Talk?

      I think it's slightly differnt.

      One is a VERY unfortunate story-type from a less progressive time from western-centric authors that protrays white people as swooping in and being heroes to the poor, uneducated natives.

      White Savior is more like a kind of white person that seems to think minorities are fragile as glass and need a white person to guide and protect them. See also: Male Savior.

      Searching for "white savior" (without quotes) on Google gives you Mighty Whitey by the third link. "White savior complex" (without quotes), on the other hand, does not come up with Mighty Whitey on the first page.

      So making "White Savior" a redirect doesn't seem to have any benefit, but maybe "White Savior Complex" does.

      Also, searching for "White Savior" (without quotes) in Google gives you White Man's Burden by the fourth link. Maybe that redirect ought to be rethought?

      IMHO, White Man's Burden seems closer to a White Savior Complex because it's about a white character being praised for "delivering" some poor minority kids from the evil, racist system and society that works against them. Especially with the side note it usually involves glorifying the white lead for the simple action of not be a racist.

  • 1 Aug 19th, 2017 at 11:11AM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 01:48:42 PM
    Would edit requests made by serial ban evaders on the Locked Pages thread be reverted on principle? I know heir normal edits would ordinarily axed, but what about the ones that they requested for locked pages? Would those edits they requested and got made be removed, too?

    I'm asking here because I asked this question on the Locked Pages thread and got no answer, so I assume that thread wasn't the right place to ask. Reply

      Well, only a mod could undo it, so you'd have to request it there and let them decide.

      Keep in mind you should use common sense. If an edit is a genuine improvement or correcting something wrong, you don't have to remove it. Don't make a page worse just to punish a ban evader.

      Use the same criteria for whether to suggest a removal. If the edit isn't harmful I'd err on the side of not giving the mods more work to do.
  • 0 Aug 19th, 2017 at 11:11AM
    Can someone hard split the pages for Gigantic so there are separate entries for the Disney film, the MOBA Video Game and the TV series? Reply
  • 3 Aug 19th, 2017 at 3:03AM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 11:44:22 AM
    May I ask what is the community's stance on Roleplay pages, and especially their character subpages? I was doing a wick check for Enemy Eats Your Lunch, and I came across this page: Hetalia Fandomly

    In my opinion, it is a sorry sight. Full of Zero Context Examples, if there is context, it is insufficient, and often they use Audience Reaction and justify that with invoking or in-verse.

    I have seen such pages quite often, and frankly, they seem to be beyond saving. I sometimes comment some ZCE out, but it seems like a waste of time and effort since nobody ever fills them in, and I see little chance of anyone willing to do the work. I often see that these pages have not been edited in years, save for some clean-up effort, like in this case someone deleted Brown Eyes from the list.

    Are these pages encouraged, or merely tolerated? Leave them be as they are? Delete all ZCE? Cutlist? Reply

      Same rules apply as on regular pages.

      Hetalia Fandomly seem to be beyond hope. The description say it's characters sheet of...something (Exactly What It Says on the Tin? Except I have no idea what it is) formed during specific manga... Then point to another Roleplay page, an external link to another wiki, and yet another Roleplay page. Almost nothing on itself.

      Checking the history, it started with Septimus moving the content (I assume it was on Main), so there's nobody to contact.

      I've submitted this particular page to Cutlist. Hope it is within the rules.

      Anyway, lots of these Roleplay forums pages are littered with ZCE, wrong indentation, and almost nobody who would contribute regularly who could be contacted...
  • 5 Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:10PM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 09:09:05 AM
    Even after reading Playing With A Trope, Playing With Wiki, and [Trope Name], I still don't quite get what a Double Subverted trope is. The basic definition is that the trope is Subverted but then is Subverted again to make the trope occur after all; that's how I understand it. But, what confuses me is whenever there ISN'T a "Playing With" page on the main trope's page, thus there's no clearly defined way to know whether an example that I want to enter is Subverted or Double Subverted or Untwisted or Averted or the like.

    My main question is: is Double Subverted where a trope is Subverted and then Subverted again to make the trope Played Straight? Or is it more complicated than that? Reply

      I think you get it.

      Subversion is when a trope was set up in work, but then avoid the trope.

      Double Subversion is when it set up the the trope, then avoid it, but then use the trope straight afterward.

      Untwisted...what is it? If it's straight example then it's straight example, no need for some unnecessary double-negative no plus no equal yes or the like term.

      Aversion is when the trope doesn't set up at all. Usually this is only noteworthy if the trope is generally expected in that work.

      I think I didn't ask my question correctly, so here it is: Is Double Subverted when a trope is Subverted, but then that Subversion is Subverted to make the trope occur after all?

      Maybe I'm thinking too hard about this, but that is actually how I meant to ask my question before.

      Yes, that is it.

      Yeah, you understand it correctly, I would say.

      You know what helped me most to get it, other than reading examples on Double Subverted? Reading Playing With Wiki. For the more popular tropes, we usually have a subpage with played with tropes. They are written to be easily understood and to present the basic concept in a . simple way.

      Here is a list: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/namespace_index.php?ns=PlayingWith

      Thank you X Fllo, Septimus Heap, and Kuruni! I'm definitely taking a closer look at each page now.
  • 6 Aug 16th, 2017 at 7:07PM
    Print Comic
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 08:00:59 AM
    Context: DC is having an imprint spinning out of Dark Nights: Metal which is called Dark Matter. Problem is the Name's the Same. Specifically, the imprint's sharing a name with the TV show Dark Matter. And with it, several subpages.

    I ask if it would be alright to move the page for the upcoming DC imprint as to avoid conflict with the series (under the assumption that the imprint will at least attract a YMMV and/or trivia pages for general events and that like Young Animal, it would not be branded as apart of DC Rebirth despite being set in that continuity) Reply

      Makes sense. Although often both sets are moved to appropriately named pages and the primary page held as a disambiguous.

      (Yes, autocorrect, that last one is a real word.)

      I see, I think Series.Dark Matter 2015 works for the TV Show? But what about the Imprint would Creator.Dark Matter 2017 or Creator.Dark Matter DC be preferred for the imprint?

      Update: I noticed a third work under that name, a Tabletop Game setting published in 1999 and a book from 2010, The TV show still seems to have the subpages, so i presume moving those to Literature.Dark Matter 2010 and TabletopGame.Dark Matter 1999 might be required as well?

      Hi, I'm the guy who created the Dark Matter page.

      I made it a Creator page because of Young Animal and Vertigo. And despite both it and Young Animal being in-continuity with the mainstream DCU, there are some weird things about that, like how Bug! (a Young Animal comic) is sort of a follow-up to something that, as far as I know, isn't in continuity with Rebirth.

      Anyway, I figure it would be fine to leave as is, since it's a Creator. Creators aren't supposed to have YMMV pages and their Trivia entries are supposed to just be placed with the main tropes as far as I know. The works themselves will have their own pages too, so... yeah.

      If we DO change it, I'd say make Dark Matter a disambiguation, with each of the things named Dark Matter having a year at the end or something. With the Dark Matter comics line, I'd avoid a year, since it's... well, an imprint. I think Dark Matter (comics) would be best, if we had to change it.

      Okay I'll ask for a related question before moving ahead with the pages. Right now all the subpages are related to the series, and I noticed that some similar cases tend to add examples form all the works sharing the name to the same subpage. Is that kosher or does disambiguating the pages by year seem preferable?

      Also is there a precedent for an imprint that was disambiguate form other works with the same name?

      If you can untwist the example lists, splitting subpages as well is advisable.

      Okay then I made pages for the 3 works (all by year) that shared the name with the series (I'll work on that later). Next step would be custom titles, which should be "<work name> (year)" right?

      Update: I also went ahead and changed the wicks for the indexes for the tabletop game and all the wicks for the imprint. I noticed that the book was not wicked or indexed however.

      Update 2: moved the series pages to their own year-disambiguated pages and then found out that a locked disambiguation page already exists, I'm going to bring my edits up on the locked pages thread. Also, I've sent in custom title request to parenthesize the years.
  • 0 Aug 19th, 2017 at 7:07AM
    The Memetic Mutation page for Music has this note:

    Please add entries in the following format:
    • The name of the song.
      • Meme name: description of meme and how it's used.
        • Source of meme and fandom it relates to in the form of a note/labelnote.
        • Famous instances (such as the Rick Roll during the Thanksgiving parade).
        • Further mutations and successor memes, if any.
    Examples not following this scheme have been commented out. Please don't uncomment them without converting them first.

    Problem is no examples follow that format. They're either essentially zero-context, explain in the example itself, or explain in a labelnote. Reply
  • 3 Aug 19th, 2017 at 4:04AM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 07:07:13 AM
    Good evening. Is it possible to use Betty and Veronica in situations where the character has a heterosexual and homosexual Love Interest that are opposed to each other in a diverse context in Love Triangle? At first I thought of proposing to create a separate trope on this topic, but it seemed to me that this trope can also be used in this context.


      Seems like a question better suited for Trope Talk.

      Thank you, I'll try to duplicate the question there

      Little Buster, (answering you here because I can't find a thread of you in Trope Finder yet), a proposal for something like that called Bisexual Love Trangle was done in the Trope Launch Pad here: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=aniv703k6ehf2zxn7e4n0zmc however it has gotten more Nukes than Hats on the grounds that people didn't find it a specific sub-form enough of Love Triangle in general. That probably still is the best match to what you're meaning.
  • 5 Aug 18th, 2017 at 5:05PM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 06:33:17 AM
    SirPellucidar doesn't seem to understand how linking to other pages works. Reply

      Looking through their last trope page edits, I didn't really find a linking problem besides one instance of not putting curly braces around a single word title; they seem to know how to namespace and use CamelCase just fine?

      Not exactly. This was their last edit:

      Monsters in One Punch Man are often introduces with a caption giving their name and disaster level.

      How odd, earlier edits didn't have that problem. Could it be more than one person using the same account, or some edits being done on a mobile device and some not?

      Edit: Looking further back they seem to be all over place, sometimes they do it right, other times they don't, spotted one instance of unnecessary square brackets. If it's one person they're pretty sloppy with how they edit. Also seem to have problems with Conversation in the Main Page.

      Where is that (natter)?

      There's their edit in Superior Species, thought I saw another somewhere that at the time I thought looked like a response to another entry, but can't pin point it again, might have just been over analyzing.
  • 2 Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:10PM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 05:47:53 AM
    Within the Untwist article, a vague reference is made to a "famous" book where a person leaves behind obvious clues that they are the murderer so that they may avoid double jeopardy within the courtroom, but not enough information is given to find the book through a google search. Can someone PLEASE tell me what this is referencing, and since the page states that "no examples are allowed" can someone decide whether to edit it to show what it is referencing or to not mention it at all? I just really can't stand finding a really good plot to a book that I can't read. Reply
  • 1 Aug 19th, 2017 at 4:04AM
    Live Action TV
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 05:40:28 AM
    I remember this special very vaguely however it most likely aired in the early 2000's. There was one particular episode apart of the special itself that I remember most of. The episode appeared to have people working on a kids show television set where there was a creepy doll. The only way I could possibly describe it is a cabbage patch kid mixed with Barney's height (at least from what I recall). The particular line that stands out to me is it talking to one of the cast members who happened to be a mail man on the kids show, she basically said something along the lines of "I'll cut out your heart and you can cut out mine." The man of course thought the doll meant paper hearts as there were materials to make them on a nearby table. Unfortunately the doll stabs him in the heart with a pair of scissors and says something mentioning a baby, I don't know. What I think I remember is the cast member who played the mail man had romantic relations with the woman who provided voice over work for the doll and recently discovered she was pregnant. This is all I really remember from it, it's been a while. Reply
  • 1 Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:07PM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 01:31:47 AM
    Is it just me or are most of the Recap pages in the Literature section being misused.

    Looking through the pages they appear to consist of just lists of the books in the same series, the same lists but with a brief synopsis, or links to pages that contain that contain detailed synopsis of the entire plot but no tropes.

    Also if a work has enough tropes that they can be split across pages for individual books; then I have to wonder why they aren't in the literature namespace rather than the recap namespace (such as with the Harry Potter books), as this can create redundancies such as with the The Dresden Files which has both work pages and recap pages troping the individual books. Reply

      Seems like a task for a forum thread.