• 3 Jun 23rd, 2018 at 5:05AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2018 01:10:40 PM
    Okay... beyond the fact that the page SelfDemonstrating.IvaNova-ThatWomanArticulatingTales includes a hyphen in its title, and thus would need to be moved anyway, aren't new self-demonstrating pages generally frowned upon, and not to be set up without some discussion first?

    And frankly, I have ne real idea what this one is about even after glancing at it. It might be about a work... but shouldn't there be a proper work page before even considering a self-demonstrating one? Reply

      Looks like a vanity page for some You Tuber. Nuke it.

      Should the self-demonstrating namespace be blanket-locked? Like main? (IE: Just for creating new ones.)

      Seems like they should be forced through TLP. Mods could hand-unlock a page for the rare one that's allowed through.

      The next major update, due soon, will give us the ability to lock down namespaces, yes.
  • 3 Jun 23rd, 2018 at 11:11AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2018 01:00:02 PM
    Title. So, I have asked a lot of questions in the ATT and Trope Finder for the past few months already, and I have realized that many of my common queries ask about comparing two tropes which can be easily misinterpreted, interchanged, or swapped... because their descriptions are very similar to each other.

    So, is a special thread, or an ATT-like page that handles these types? The one where a confused troper needs help from others when it comes choosing A or B in a given scenario? Or is the "Ask The Tropers" page already enough for this kinds of questions?

    Anyway, while we are at comparing tropes, I need help on differentiating Red Baron and The Magnificent. Let's say we have a medieval knight with such a badass title like Siegfried, the Dragonslayer, where should it fit? Reply
  • 4 Jun 23rd, 2018 at 1:01AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2018 12:07:25 PM
    What happened to it? Reply
  • 1 Jun 23rd, 2018 at 10:10AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2018 11:47:09 AM
    Shouldn't the "general" section on Somewhere, a Mammalogist Is Crying be deleted? Reply

      Yes, yank that. If anything it would belong on an Analysis page. Or maybe an Useful Notes page.
  • 1 Jun 23rd, 2018 at 10:10AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2018 11:45:53 AM
    I just looked at the Film/Serendipity page and history due to Professional 7's ATT post, and noticed concerning behavior relating to one example. The page contains a Bare Your Midriff entry, which was previously deleted by Larkmarn with the edit reason "This sounds less like the trope and more like 'her midriff was exposed for a second' which is not the trope." Months later, Professional 7 re-added the same example without any edit reason given or any entry on the discussion page. The example was re-added word-for-word (right down to a misspelling), so it was clearly copy-pasted from the version Larkmarn deleted rather than an independent addition.

    The original example was not added by Professional 7, but rather by a troper called 1390883, so it may not technically be an edit war. However, the original example writer, 1390883, seemed to be obsessed with that entry (as in 20+ edits by 1390883 solely devoted to editing and re-editing that one example over the course of months, often to add external image links).

    I think Larkmarn's deletion was correct based on the example, but I didn't want to wade into this and continue the delete vs. add spree without getting further input, and thought the history was bizarre enough that it ought to be brought to mods attention in general. Reply

      Well, 1390883 was banned for sexual fetishism on the wiki, but Professional 7 has no particular editing patterns. I'd try with a PM or removing then putting on the discussion page.
  • 1 Jun 22nd, 2018 at 12:12PM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2018 11:07:39 AM
    Anyone want to help give contributions and additions to the Serendipity movie tropes page? It’s been dormant for a long time. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/Serendipity#dropdown Reply

      The current page appears to be full of Zero Context Examples and not well crosswicked (there doesn't appear to be much overlap between the trope list and the page wicks under Related Pages), so if you want to improve the page, those would be good things to start with. Proper crosswicking may naturally enable more interested tropers to come across the page (of course, the examples should have sufficient context before being added the trope pages). The Zero Context Examples will need to be commented out entirely if they're cleaned up by someone unfamiliar with the work, so if you want it to thrive, filling them out as much as you can is important.
  • 2 Jun 23rd, 2018 at 10:10AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2018 10:13:22 AM
    I was wondering if there was already a trope that covered a bait and switch sentiment scenario. The example that comes to mind is the scene from Monsters University where Mike says to squibbles "We have everything we need to win right here." Squibbles smiles and says "Heart." at which point Mike says "No, me! I'm gonna win this for us!" I want to launch something that covers this, but I need to see if it exists already. Reply
  • 0 Jun 23rd, 2018 at 9:09AM
    Professors Zwillinge Reply
  • 2 Jun 21st, 2018 at 5:05AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2018 08:35:53 AM
    In the comic book Ultimatum a sudden flash flood strikes New York, including the base of the Ultimates (alternate universe version of the Avengers). Pym and Hawkeye get out of the disaster and start looking for the Wasp. It seems that they had found him, Hawkeye rushes to a place, we turn the page... and next, the villain the Blob is eating her corpse, claiming that it "tastes like chicken".

    In context, it was a surprise, but in time the whole comic got to be known for that specific scene. Nowadays, it is the Signature Scene of the comic, more so than any of the covers. Should we hide it in spoiler tags, or can we consider a Late-Arrival Spoiler and remove the tags? Reply
  • 1 Jun 23rd, 2018 at 6:06AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2018 07:14:36 AM
    Hello can anyone help me with finding a movie that i’ve watched 10 years ago. The film was an animation. It was about a dog named Indra, he/she had a pink heart on his/her forehead. There was also a man who slept his eyes open and could only see with his eyes closed. He was living in yellow/gold prison ondergroud like a cave. Please help me with finding this cartoonmove.

  • 2 Jun 23rd, 2018 at 12:12AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2018 06:39:53 AM
    Mike Shogun Lee created the page WMG/Virginia yesterday. It has many English errors, including incorrect spelling and verb tenses, extra words, apostrophes for possession (not used or used incorrectly), missing punctuation (commas and a period at the end of a sentence) and not capitalizing the first words of sentences.

    It also has a violation of Example Indentation in Trope Lists. I'm not sure how strictly that's enforced in WMG and similar pages.

    He went on the Get Help With English here thread and said "Help please.....I AM SORRY I GOT REALLY EXCITED!!!" Reply

      Issued an edit suspension, many of their other changes have also grammar issues. Example Indentation rules apply to this page as much as to any other.

      To their credit, at least they seemed to realize something was wrong enough to go to Get Help With English of their own accord.
  • 0 Jun 23rd, 2018 at 4:04AM
    Is it okay to move LongStory's namespace from Video Game to Visual Novel because it is the latter, going by the way it is presented? If so, how do I do it without damaging the page itself?

    EDIT: Nevermind, it has already been moved. Reply
  • 2 Jun 21st, 2018 at 3:03PM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Jun, 2018 01:07:50 AM
    • Pokémon
      • Though Mewtwo is indeed portrayed as a villain in Pokémon the First Movie: Mewtwo Strikes Back, it tries to mitigate by saying that he was driven to villainy by the revelation that he was an artificial being and is Desperately Looking for a Purpose in Life. However, his first violent act is blowing up the laboratory where he was created, killing all of the people there, after a conversation which lasts for no more than five minutes. His creator may be a bit of a jerk by rather callously brushing off his questions, but there is no indication that the scientists were actually mistreating Mewtwo or were going to do so in the future,note  thereby making him come off as a Manchild whining about how his life sucks because he never asked to be born.
        • A scene that was removed from the Western release shows Mewtwo talking with the other clone experiments via psychic connection, who then disappear one by one. Mewtwo eventually realizes that the clones are being discarded as failures. So he effectively had to watch his only friends die one by one.
      • Pokémon: The Movie 2000: The Power of One has Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres become this thanks to Early Installment Weirdness. When the movie premiered, the anime portrayed most Pokémon as just animals with superpowers, so it could be assumed that the legendary birds just didn't have the capability of higher thought and were acting on instinct. But as the show went on, more and more Pokémon, especially Legendaries, were given fully developed personalities and were implied to have human intelligence, retroactively making the birds so selfish that they're willing to wipe out all life on Earth just because they don't want to be around one another. Pretty much every Fan Fic that translates Pokémon Speak and references this movie has Lugia rip into them for their behavior.
      • Kyurem may have had a point in Pokemon Kyurem Vs The Sword Of Justice when he attacks Keldeo as punishment for the latter's arrogance in challenging him when not remotely ready and lying about being a Sword of Justice, but that doesn't excuse Kyurem chasing him miles out of the arena and attacking a train and then a city populated entirely by people and Pokémon who don't have the slightest knowledge of their quarrel, just because Keldeo is there. He is never called out for this.

    Mewtwo now violates Repair, Don't Respond, and they and Kyurem are villains because there actions are excessive and I don't belvice they're treated sympathetically for it (for Mewtwo, until they realize there wrongness and stop). Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres are also not treaded sympathetically admitted to not being an example at the time, making it seem more like Continuity Drift or Franchise Original Sin than this? Thoughts on removing?

    There's a dedicated Unintentionally Unsympathetic cleanup, but I still haven't heard back from my last inquiry a month ago. Reply


      I think this question would be better off in the Is this an example thread in the Trope Talk forum.
  • 1 Jun 22nd, 2018 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Jun, 2018 10:00:04 PM
    A new account spamming (I think that the same spam ben posted before, cutlisting Reply

      Banned, processed cut,
  • 3 Jun 22nd, 2018 at 10:10AM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Jun, 2018 08:16:46 PM
    I added to the YMMV page for Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom regarding Narm, only for troper TantaMonty to remove them.

    • The scene where Mills tells the heroes that Maisie is actually a clone comes right out of no where, with Mills having little reason to tell them. The sheer jarring way it is revealed is much funnier than it should be, since it was clearly meant to be a Shocking Swerve, but didn't quite land the mark.
    • The film graces us with perhaps the silliest death in the entire series: Mills killing Lockwood by suffocating him with a pillow. The hilarity of such a thing in a movie filled with killer Dinosaurs is much funnier than the film probably realized.

    Their reason as: The mere fact Lockwood was killed by something that was not a dinosaur is not funny at all, as he was just a feeble old man murdered by one of the most despicable characters in the movie. Also, Eli did have a reason to reveal Maisie's origins, in his own twisted mind he thought that Owen and Claire would stop caring for the young girl if they find out she was the result of unethical genetic practices..

    Are these valid examples? The first one is valid if you ask me since how the scene is framed just has the reveal happen as if telling the audience, and the reason they removed it is just using headcanon for why since there isn't a reason for it. Plus, unless the trope is a misuse, opinions are still valid as far as I am aware.

    Plus it seems like the troper might be semi policing the movies pages, which can be a problem going forward. Also I should add I don't mind if these are seen as bad examples, just wanted to make sure. Reply

      That first example violates Spoiler Policy in that it whites-out the entire thing. The second one also whites out a massive part of it, too.

      The second example violates Examples Are Not Arguable; YMMV items are arguable by definition, so "perhaps" isn't an appropriate word to use there.

      Understandable fixes I forgot about. It was the content that I was more concerned on, I can fix those mistakes easily.

      I think with the second one at least they’re confusing simply unintentionally funny with narm, and saying it’s only that way because of wider, meta, context. That would make it misuse. In my own opinion, both of them sound wrong but if someone interpreted it that way then it (the first) can stay
  • 2 Jun 21st, 2018 at 9:09PM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Jun, 2018 05:00:27 PM
    (Funny how that subject shows up first in the dropdown box whenever I make a post to ATT.) Editor Norwicca has, bluntly put, terrible spelling and grammar, to the point that some of their edits are incomprehensible. They don't edit very often, but they've made a complete mess of Series.On The Buses and its subpages. They also appear to have no idea which tropes go on main pages and which go on YMMV pages; almost every entry they've added to the YMMV page is in the wrong place. Reply

      Suspended, cleanup needed.

      I've already taken care of their entries on Series.On The Buses and its subpages (there were so many errors to correct that I can't guarantee I got every one of them); looks as though someone took care of their entries on Characters.Bewitched as well, so hopefully that's all the cleanup needed here.
  • 1 Jun 22nd, 2018 at 11:11AM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Jun, 2018 03:54:59 PM
    HeroSeeker has been on a constant streak of poorly-worded entries that reek of Word Cruft and abuse of ALLCAPS. Since they cannot read any PM due to a PM block, I think a moderator should tap them on the shoulder. Reply

      May have to add a wiki restraint on top of the existing PM ban.
  • 15 Jun 20th, 2018 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Jun, 2018 12:32:10 PM
    • Franchise Killer: The film's box office failure put future Star Wars theatrical spinoffs on ice indefinitely.

    This seems overly knee jerk since 1. they're merely being delayed to focus on "IX" which make killed too strong a term since there's still plans 2. I heard there's yet to be anything official on this. "Mass Effect: Andromeda" is in the same place, but we've deemed it not an example since they're too busy with other projects to work on it regardless, is anything diligent in this case? Reply

      Well, the production of Episode IX is still going forward for a release in 2019, and despite the rumor of the contrary Rian Johnson's trilogy hasn't been canceled, and If I'm not mistaken the Boba Fett movie has been announced. So no. definitely it's not a case.

      Anything with Star Wars would be a knee jerk reaction.

      That entry is jumping the gun, which has been a problem with some other Franchise Killer entries.

      That example has been removed, and I PM'ed the troper who added it.

      The spinoff features have, in fact, been indefinitely postponed.


      "Postponed indefinitely" is not the same as "killed", though, and it's not the entire franchise that's affected, but just the spinoffs.

      There was another article I found that reported it in greater detail, or was at least longer than the Vulture article jamespolk linked to. I found it while browsing Google News, but I can't quite recall the name of the news outlet itself. I do know, however, that I relied on it when adding that example.

      EDIT REASON: Forgot something.

      It seems pretty unlikely that Disney is going to make the same mistake again, frankly.

      I think the crux of the matter is whether one considers the spinoffs a "franchise". It woudn't seem like they could qualify, and if they aren't a franchise then Solo can't be a Franchise Killer.

      ^I agree. Future anthology movies getting postponed or canned because of Solo's underperformance is something worth mentioning, I feel, but Franchise Killer just doesn't seem like the right term for it.

      ^ "You can also add Trivia items that don't fit any category or premade page as long as it is legitimately trivia, and not a trope or an Audience Reaction." - Trivia. That is worth mentioning and can be listed, but it doesn't have to be attached to Franchise Killer or any other trope.

      Isn't it a case of a Stillborn Franchise instead?

      I can't say it's either stillborn or killed. The franchise already started, since Solo is the second movie after Rogue One (?) and it's still ongoing, isn't it? It can't be a Stillborn Franchise nor a Franchise Killer if it already exists in the first place and, by most indications, continues to exist.

      Update: I've seen some reports now of Lucasfilm apparently confirming that the anthology movies were not cancelled after all, and that it was just a rumour.

      Almost like there's a lesson here to be learned about not making knee-jerk Speculative Troping.

  • 2 Jun 22nd, 2018 at 10:10AM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Jun, 2018 10:47:58 AM
    How do I create a page for a particular work? Reply
  • 2 Jun 22nd, 2018 at 1:01AM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Jun, 2018 09:19:33 AM
    Would the following two entries added by WolfofBlades to the Dawn of War page violate the web-links are not examples rule or is there enough context?


      I'd say that neither of those are valid examples of Cool Helmet as written, because they don't say what's cool about them. This is another one of those appearance tropes whose nature seems to lead inevitably to decay. The helmet should not be a skin or an optional item, but a defining element of a character's appearance, used to say something about them.

      ^Thanks. I've deleted the examples.
  • 3 Jun 20th, 2018 at 3:03PM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Jun, 2018 08:05:57 AM
    I'm finding myself in an edit war on Fallout 76. A troper recently put the Doomed by Canon trope on the page, stating the Vault 76's mission to rebuild America in the aftermath of the nuclear war "obviously' failed based on how much of a bombed-out hell hole the Capital Wasteland of Washington D.C. and Boston Commonwealth are 185 years later.

    • Vault 76's mission to restore America is obviously doomed to fail from the start, since the east coast is still a Crapsack World 185 years later."

    Here's the thing though: this game is a prequel and a spinoff from the main series, but there is literally NO MENTION of the end results of Vault 76's efforts anywhere else in the entire franchise. There's no mention that it's located in West Virginia, or anything else. There's only a computer terminal in Fallout 3 that only mentions that Vault 76 exists.

    According to the Doomed by Canon's own Playing With page, if something hasn't been mentioned in the main installments, then it counts as an Averted Trope, and thus should not be mentioned.


    • Bob wasn't mentioned in "The Main Tropes", so it doesn't matter what his fate is."

    Or, to put it into context:

    "Vault 76's efforts aren't mentioned in the rest of the Fallout franchise, so it doesn't matter what its fate is."

    The game hasn't even come out yet. It'll be released in November, so nobody actually knows if the game's main storyline will address any actual results from the efforts of the players. To say that they failed because of the Crapsack World that previous (but further down the timeline) installments are with literally zero mention of this game is ridiculous. Reply

      Any suggestions?

      Well, if their goal is to rebuild America, and America hasn't been rebuilt a hundred years later, it sounds like they failed in their mission. Even if they aren't specifically mentioned, we can still plainly see that their country is far from its former glory, we don't need to be explicitly told "Vault 76 didn't fix things up as well as they wanted to" to understand that.

      Yeah, but rebuilding all of the entire east coast is a pretty impossible task for a place that canonical only has 500 inhabitants. There are other control vaults in the country, and 76 is the only one we know of in the general vicinity of the east coast. "Rebuild America" is a pretty broad statement. From a technical standpoint on this wiki, the Averted Trope still applies because we don't know how Fallout 76 will play out and there is no mention.
  • 3 Jun 22nd, 2018 at 1:01AM
    Western Animation
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Jun, 2018 07:46:37 AM
    Now, the reason it's odd is that it's linking to a Troper Tales' related video. I'm not sure if it's kosher. Carliro added it in earlier. Namely, the fact Troper Tales was hard cut makes me wonder if we should avoid mentioning it as is, not to say the context is incorrect in this example. Reply