• 0 Mar 23rd, 2018 at 8:08AM
    This page isn't Useful Notes: UsefulNotes.Land Of Oz Actors — should it be moved to someplace else? Reply
  • 1 Mar 23rd, 2018 at 8:08AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Mar, 2018 08:24:41 AM
    On the Kirby - Bosses and Villains page, this was deleted.
    • Vile Villain, Saccharine Show: His abusiveness towards his own followers is bad enough, but wanting to see the entire universe destroyed by resurrecting a God of Evil? Yeah, the Kirby series being a generally happy, idealistic, and cute franchise full of Affably Evil characters, Tragic Villains with sympathetic backstories, and Generic Doomsday Villains makes him really stand out and hold the dubious honor of being the darkest most evil villain in the franchise itself, with none of the redeeming traits that flesh out most of the villains in the games.

    Pretty sure the trope fits, but someone did a big revert edit that deleted most of the added tropes when there was no reason to. The name of the user is King Ghost.

    May I add this back? Reply

      Who is the entry talking about? It doesnt say anything about who exactly it is talking about.
  • 0 Mar 23rd, 2018 at 8:08AM
    I've added a new works page, and I've crosswicked most of the tropes on it, except two: Con Man and Pun. Those two pages don't actually have examples on them, just lists of subtropes.

    To properly crosswick those examples, should I replace the examples of Con Man and Pun that I have listed with examples of the appropriate subtropes of Con Man and Pun?

    For that matter, should works pages generally not have examples for tropes like Con Man and Pun—-tropes that have no examples themselves, only subtropes listed in their respective pages? Reply
  • 6 Mar 22nd, 2018 at 10:10PM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Mar, 2018 07:34:43 AM
    There are work pages for That Obscure Object of Desire as well as the most recent winner of the Foreign Language Film Oscar, A Fantastic Woman. However, both are under their original foreign-language titles, Cet obscur objet du désir and Una mujer fantástica. Isn't that a no-no? Reply

      They are both written in poor English, so I'd assume the page creators are from the countries in question and aren't aware of the official English titles, which the wiki uses (most recent official English release) — e.g. if you look at the works with pages of Pedro Almodóvar, only 2 use their Spanish titles, for the reasons that Volver has only ever been released with that name to all nations, and that La Piel Que Habito was released in the US as The Skin I Live In, but was released in the UK and Australia afterwards with the original name, so its most recent English release had that (Spanish) title

      Update: both were made by Breakermorrant, I've sent a pm about English, but their troper page lists a lot of pages they've made with the original French/Spanish/Italian title rather than English and with varying levels of English proficiency... (Though I'm not sure if Il deserto rosso was ever released with an English title, but that's just one. They're doing a fantastic job of chronicling the biggest and best of European cinema, and I'm not averse to moving/cleaning the pages myself.)

      One of the pages, L'eclisse, was made at Film/Leclisse, instead of Film/LEclisse, so it (and its many subpages) needs to be deleted and recreated.

      ...and now they've removed the English titles etc. I added to Leone d'Oro, undoing everything but the English corrections in description, and pm'd me about changing their pages.

      So I've been messaging with Breaker Morrant and, well, they are saying that my reason for changing their pages being because their English is poor is just my opinion and that they don't believe there can be a policy on using English titles for work pages. It seems pretty fruitless.

      They're doing a fantastic job of chronicling the biggest and best of European cinema

      Yeah, I didn't feel great about starting this inquiry.

      For those wondering if English titles being preferred is official policy: it's stated on Administrivia.How To Create A Works Page under "What if it's a foreign work with a non-English title?").
  • 4 Mar 23rd, 2018 at 3:03AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Mar, 2018 04:57:10 AM
    Okay, NEX 7 has added entries on Protagonist-Centered Morality and Broken Aesop about Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. complaining about the way Fitz is treated during the Framework Arc. During this story arc, Fitz is effectively brainwashed by getting his own memories replaced by fake memories to the point where it is effectively a different person. NEX 7 believes that it violates how Ward is treated like crap and Fitz deserves punishment even though Fitz was brainwashed and Ward was not. I removed the entry on Protagonist-Centered Morality, and they readded it without discussion. Plus that entry violated Example Indentation.

    Here is their history. Reply

      Well, if the guy was brainwashed to the point of being a different person, they don't deserved to be treated like a traitor compare to Ward who did thinks on his own accord.

      Yeah uh everything Ward did, he did of his own free will. Fitz though got brainwashed into another personality entirely. So there isn't any Double Standard or Protagonist-Centered Morality here at all.


      I will bring both examples to the discussion page.
  • 2 Mar 23rd, 2018 at 4:04AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Mar, 2018 04:54:41 AM
    So for FLCL 2 & 3 on the ymmv page. someone added this:

    • Sequelitis: Fans of the original series fear that this is what FLCL will be subjected to, with a few accusing the anime industry of making attempting to turn FLCL into a quick cashgrab.

    Thing is this show hasn't even come out yet, so isn't this jumping the gun. Reply
  • 2 Mar 23rd, 2018 at 4:04AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Mar, 2018 04:49:46 AM
    Why do we suddenly have 9 indexes for one-time awards given by TV poll with only 7 entries? (Over at the Awards Index) There's no standard for that, and if we want to keep "one-time TV poll title" then we can at least put them all on the same page rather than have nine pages. Reply

      I am guessing that someone who is interested in these awards did the pages.

      It has more pages than the Academy Award categories. For a one-time TV poll. With 7 entries each. Should they at least all be just put onto one page?
  • 2 Mar 22nd, 2018 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Mar, 2018 04:36:12 AM
    Dethroning Moment of Suck has the alternate titles "Moment Of Awesome" and "Awesome Moments" and SugarWiki.Moment Of Awesome has the redirect CROWNINGMOMENTOFAWESOME. What's with that? Reply
  • 2 Mar 23rd, 2018 at 12:12AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Mar, 2018 04:32:02 AM
    I noticed that someone recently deleted all the YMMV pages for the One Piece character pages. This had been discussed before, since apparently that is a bit excessive, and all YMMV tropes should simply go in the single YMMV page for the whole manga. While I appreciated these separate YMMV pages for each character group page, since it made it much easier to navigate and look at YMMV entries for individual characters, I understand why having multiple pages of such might be excessive.

    But likewise, it seems a bit excessive in turn to just delete all those pages, seemingly with no way to retrieve the YMMV entries on those pages. That was quite a bit of troping work over many years that is now just gone. If there is a way to retrieve those entries, if only to at least move them to the main YMMV page for One Piece, it would be great to know. Reply
  • 1 Mar 23rd, 2018 at 2:02AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Mar, 2018 04:31:30 AM
    About a week ago, troper Mack Wylde was suspended for directly copy-pasting content from Wikipedia. A few days ago, a new account called Treg Ryder started editing the same pages as Mack (such as Yu-Gi-Oh 5Ds, Where the Wild Things Are, The Jungle Book, etc.). Not only that, but they're focusing on much of the same tropes (such as Central Theme, Nice Guy, Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism, various tropes about morality).

    It's strange because, as far as I know, Mack hasn't tried to repeal their suspension, but the accounts seem too similar to just be coincidence. Reply

      Yes, that and metadata are very suspect. Banned both.
  • 3 Mar 22nd, 2018 at 6:06PM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Mar, 2018 11:12:52 PM
    Lame Excuse vs I Need to Go Iron My Dog. Reply

      Lame Excuse refers to obviously false reasoning, while I Need to Iron My Dog refers to a sudden need to leave the area.

      I thought Lame Excuse was for when the excuse was an illness or injury (such as a lame leg), but I see the description isn't as clear about it as I thought.

      Unicorndance: the best place to ask this type of question (comparing two or more tropes) is Trope Talk Conversations.
  • 1 Mar 22nd, 2018 at 9:09PM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Mar, 2018 10:28:07 PM
    I keep getting redirected off my page when this notification pops up(it's the google one with the image of a broken robot), how do I stop it? The reason i'm asking about this here is because browsing tv tropes seems to exacerbate it. Reply
  • 3 Mar 22nd, 2018 at 9:09PM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Mar, 2018 09:47:12 PM

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  • 1 Mar 22nd, 2018 at 9:09PM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Mar, 2018 09:32:25 PM
    Just curious if you can change edit reasons? Reply

      None that I'm aware of. If it's a major change or correction, though, you could probably do a null edit (edit and save the page w/o making any actual changes) to say what you need to properly.

      I sometimes use that after making a particularly large edit mostly to save whoever's scanning the history some scrolling about my own edit.
  • 0 Mar 22nd, 2018 at 8:08PM
    A few hours ago, Monolaf 317 added this to Fanon.Steven Universe:
    • In the more, ahem, adult works:
      • Seme: Garnet, Mystery Girl
      • Reversible or Uke: Amethyst, Jasper, Peridot, Pearl, Lapis

    Even ignoring the whole "it's a kids show" thing, from what I understand, seme and uke are words specific to the yaoi genre, specifically referring to males. All of the characters listed are female, or at least use female pronouns. Reply
  • 1 Mar 22nd, 2018 at 7:07PM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Mar, 2018 07:56:57 PM
    Anyone know what's up with Caillou Fan's latest edits on YMMV.Caillou? Reply

      Some of it looks like natter. Not to mention the third-level bullet is is improperly done.

      I've messaged them on natter and indentation, but his edit history should be investigated.
  • 12 Mar 20th, 2018 at 6:06AM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Mar, 2018 07:25:56 PM
    On various Overwatch-related pages, Tropers.The Grim Reefer has made MASSIVE changes to the pages (see YMMV.Overwatch Story And Lore), including almost complete rewrites of the pages with Wall of Text entries. They’ve made such large changes and so many of them in such a short time that its almost impossible to keep track.

    The validity of the actual examples is also a concern, as they added an Unfortunate Implications entry with no citation. And one of their entries includes an incorrect Sink Hole to Wimpification . Reply

      Their edit history: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=thegrimreefer

      If it's specific to Overwatch, we may be seeing a specific ban evader at work. On the other hand, I thought the mods had nailed one of his socks more recently than this edit history goes back.

      I sent them a message and they seem to be sorry if they've caused trouble.

      I'll explain the situation and invite them to the discussion.

      Checked IP, no matches with banned users.

      Good to hear about the messaging.


      So anyway, I propose two things:

      1. A reversion to the state before Grim Reefer's first edit.
      2. Talking over which edits to keep in the Discussion page.

      I don't think you should be posting PM transcripts.

      Sorry. I got rid of them.

      Yeah, my first thought was that he was another attempt by Ultimate Lazer to ban evade but it looks like it's not.

      I suggest bringing most entries to the discussion page. There are some i don't quite agree.

      Yeah, can we get a lock and/or revert on this soon?

      There are still edits being made, and the more it goes on, the harder this'll be to fix.

      I think the edits should be kept as is, and then work from there.

      That doesn’t seem practical, IMO.

      Reefer's edits hAve a LOT of issues.

      So is a revert happening, or...?
  • 12 Mar 15th, 2018 at 5:05PM
    Web Original
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Mar, 2018 07:21:46 PM
    I think http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/ProtonJon/ should return as it shows the personalities the co-coms use when commentating. They have been noted by Jon to act differently at cons. The personalities they show here are clearly in entertainer mode. Even his cat, Bagel, is usually not that desperate for attention as Jon usually doesn't talk to himself or ignore Bagel outside streams.

    But I think http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/HoYay/TheRunawayGuys should be removed. Jon finds it really creepy, and Chugga, while playing it up (because he thinks it's what the fan base wants), has admitted to finding it creepy too. They are real people with feelings, not some fictional characters you can play with the emotions of. Some people even got mad at Jon for dating Lucah because of this which is unacceptable. Reply

      Ho Yay is an audience reaction, and creator pages (of which I think Let's Play pages qualify as) cannot get Audience Reaction subpages.

      I'm seconding a cut on principle.

      [ETA] HoYay.The Runaway Guys has 1622 inbounds. and appears on 4 pages. cutting it might not be easy due to the sheer number of inbounds.

      But the Creator Page rules allow YMMV when "...it's for one of their works that doesn't already have a page or for their general work".

      Since the Ho Yay subpage consists of examples limited to their works, how does it violate this caveat?

      Correct. If the examples are about their work, it's fine. While the moments are from the videos they made, since the subjects of these entries are (mostly) the Let's Players themselves, however, that page may need to be checked.

      I won't process the cut request just yet. Can we find something salvageable?

      Looking over the page, most of what doesn't look like it came from The Runaway Guys was actually a quote from one or more of them. I don't think there's anything that's salvageable in that page. It could use another look, however, so if anyone else could have a look, that would be appreciated.

      IIRC, LetsPlay/ is a work namespace, not a creator namespace.

      This also means Jon's character page is fair game, as it's based on the LPers' portrayal within the work.

      Okay. The character subpage should then be restored. But what about the Ho Yay subpage?

      Can some of the Ho Yay examples be transplanted to other tropes such as Funny?

      A great many of the examples are talking about the Let's Players themselves. I'm not sure if it's in regards to their portrayal or the real life people. If it's the latter, then it needs to be purged.

      That's why I'm requesting another look; I can't figure out which ones pertain to the real life person or their portrayal in the work.

      I've rarely seen a clean separation between the LP'ers and their work on wiki articles. Most tropers don't seem to be able to make the distinction.

      In which case, the page should be cut because it qualifies as gossip on real life people.

      In the specific case of TRG, the Ho Yay is mostly limited to their onscreen portrayals, because all except the most rabid of fans understand that they aren't interested in each other romantically.

      Sorry to dig this back up, but I don't think this query has been resolved yet.

      To reply to bwburke94, that page does read like it was written by those kinds of fans, hence the creepiness factor Jon and Chugga see in it. I still feel it's applying audience reactions to real life people, even beyond the LPer's personas.
  • 1 Mar 22nd, 2018 at 6:06PM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Mar, 2018 07:16:07 PM
    Not certain, but isn't pretty much everything on the Fridge page for Mission to Mars more Headscratchers than Fridge content? Reply

      historically, fridge and headscratchers were lumped together. so, probably. a lot of pages have Fridge content that is HS or even WMG
  • 3 Mar 22nd, 2018 at 8:08AM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Mar, 2018 07:04:46 PM
    What would fan-comics be namespaced under? Webcomics? Reply

      I would think webcomics.

      8-Bit Theater is technically a fan faction of Final Fantasy I, but we file it under webcomic.

      Fan derivatives can be indexed under Fan Works, but the only medium we separate them from is Literature.

      I would presume they would only go under webcomics if they were originally published on the web, many doujinshi are published physically first.
  • 0 Mar 22nd, 2018 at 6:06PM
    yummyman242 has been making these weird, rambling and kinda nonsensical edits here and there. Confused looking English and misuse of the various forms of "there" and "their". Would someone mind calling 'em in for a talk? Reply
  • 9 Mar 19th, 2018 at 7:07PM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Mar, 2018 11:54:51 AM
    I was editing Fighting Clown and saw a bad wick to Game & Watch. Then I noticed that there was a "Video Game" before it.

    Turns out Game & Watch has a Video Game page and a Useful Notes page, both of which appear to be mostly the same (the former page seems the be the one getting more edits, while the latter was made this past December). No, neither of them are redirects. It seems someone basically entirely copied the former page's contents onto the latter.

    So uh, what do we do with these pages?


      The Game & Watch systems were dedicated consoles, meaning that G&W systems could play one game and no others. I'm actually not sure where dedicated consoles go; I've been wanting to create a page for the Sport Vii for quite a while, and I'm not sure where to put it. If I had to guess, I would put them in VideoGame/ because G&W systems can be considered singular games in a sense.

      Systems are useful notes. Games are work pages. Basically one page should focus on the hardware, and the other page talks about the tropes in the games.

      What DQ said.

      Ahem. That's DQZ. I'm not freakin' Dairy Queen. ;) ;) :P

      Anyway, do we also have a page for the revival games on Gameboy?

      I assume you mean Game & Watch Gallery, which redirects to the video game page.

      Well that already makes it distinct from the original hardware, so both pages need to be rewritten to fit their respective topics.

      I was supposed to move all the VideoGame.Game And Watch stuff to UsefulNotes.Game And Watch, but it's pretty tedious so I must have forgot. VideoGame.Game And Watch needs to be cut and replaced with UsefulNotes.Game And Watch.

      I think the Useful Notes page should be about the hardware and the Video Game page should be about the tropes in the games.

      Same, but I don't know anything about the hardware.
  • 2 Mar 22nd, 2018 at 1:01AM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Mar, 2018 07:46:50 AM
    Some newbie posted a question on the main page for The Firesign Theatre, right smack dab in the middle of the trope list, as if it were a trope. I P Med them and cleaned up, but then I realized that we don't really have a forum for such questions when the medium is comedy album...

    So I'm wondering if it would make sense to put in a request for an Other Media forum? Something to cover media that don't have a lot of examples, like Audio Play (which is where most of the Firesign Theatre's works are located). Or would it make more sense to just request an Audio Play forum for now, and worry about the next obscure medium we don't have covered when it comes up? Reply

      Other media would be planning ahead, and I wouldn't automatically think of the group as coming under Audio Play so others might not, too.

      Could they go under "Music" or, on the case if stand ups, on their creator pages

      Oh, you meant for the forums. Misunderstood a bit.
  • 2 Mar 21st, 2018 at 9:09PM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd Mar, 2018 12:37:05 AM
    Hi, so i was on Instagram and I saw this like 5 second clip of this show and I have no idea what it is and no one is helping me finding it. The clip showed a boy who was most likely in his late teens or early twenties and the background was dark so it was night time and he was white and had short dark hair. In the scene he was talking to someone and said "I think about you all the time." Please help! Thanks! Reply
  • 14 Mar 18th, 2018 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 21st Mar, 2018 11:50:22 PM
    So, I found Infertility Angst as a trope, but I also discovered that it was created by a ban evader, Pistols At Dawn. It was troped anyway.

    Should we cut this trope?

    TLP draft is here. Reply

      Don't know if this makes a difference, but the launch from TLP to trope page was done by a different troper (tioseafj) than the ban evader.

      More worryingly, reading the page description, this seems to just be "Law of Inverse Fertility, but with slightly more emphasis on the tearjerkeriness". The Same, but More Specific. As written, doesn't seem different enough to merit being its own trope.

      Maybe take to TLP crash rescue?

      made a post there

      tioseafj actually was Pistols At Dawn. Will see about a cut tomorrow as OP and launcher are the same evader.

      I disagree.

      It's a valid trope with a lot of examples so I don't see a reason to Shoot The Message and cut it.

      It really is just Law of Inverse Fertility but the character doesn't necessarily want to have a baby. It is the duplicate of a much more popular trope, but without the requirement of the largest storytelling aspect of that trope...

      i put it on the cutlist. Mods can decide what to do with it.

      One other thing: these socks have another TLP, Science Is Good. It has enough hats for a launch, but does this need any action?

      maybe tell them that the description could use work

      I disagree about it being a duplicate.

      This trope is specifically when an infertile/sterile character has their inability to conceive played for drama and angst. Law of Inverse Fertility is just about the trend in media that how hard is for people to conceive in fiction is inversely- proportionally to how much they want a child.

      For Science Is Good: Would be best if we make it Up for Grabs.

      Vote Keep: Added difference from the Law of Inverse Fertility is that this trope can apply to a single character not in a relationship and not trying to get pregnant. It can even apply if the person angsting is not actually infertile but just thinks they are. The Law as written only applies to people trying to get pregnant.

      I ran across this while troping Rokujyouma no Shinryakusha!? where it applies to both the Cute Ghost Girl Sanae and the Human Alien Thia at a point where they haven't even succeed in getting their Love Intrest to kiss them much less actually have sex.

      The Law Of Inverse Fertility is a plot trope, Infertility Angst is the accompanying character trope.

      ...I can certainly see it being a trope when characters are worried they are infertile but aren't. I fear, however, if there is no story related to the infertility that it will end up being "character is infertile", which is Not a Trope. Most angst that comes from infertility is wanting to get pregnant which, trying or not, comes under Law of Inverse Fertility, and without that it's usually just a character who is infertile.

      It's clearly a trend in media to show their infertility as a point of angst. Everything from Highlander (no immortal can conceive) to the MCU (Black Widow being sterilized) treat as a sore spot for the character in question.

      I just watched Highlander III last night and Kane mocked Connor over not being able to give any of his lovers children with "they're convinced they're just barren when it's really because your immortal pecker can't do the pecking". Comes up because he canonically adopted a son after he won the prize in the OG movie timeline.

      those are good examples, I'd be happy to see you make a draft for it :)