• 1 Nov 6th, 2017 at 6:06AM
    Lastest Reply: 6th Nov, 2017 07:08:03 AM
    I'm creating a trope page for a work that's a Sequel Series to another book series, but I want to have the character sheet for the sequel series redirect to the one for the original series, like how clicking the characters tab on any Marvel Cinematic Universe work redirects you to the character sheet on the Franchise page. How do I do that? Reply

      It would help if links were provided. Are you talking about Iron Gold (a forthcoming work)?
  • 4 Oct 23rd, 2017 at 10:10AM
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Oct, 2017 12:09:57 PM
    The page is incredibly long and may need some trimming down or organized into folders but I don't see why this page is locked.

    I am also curious if Natter is allowed in the WMG and Fridge pages since I see those a lot. Reply

      Please include a link to the page in question.

      Courtesy link.

      It's locked because there's no reason to edit it. Any new guesses or answers or jossing would go on the subpages. There's no reason to edit the main page.

      I'll definitely post a link next time. I'm also thinking we could split the WMG Harry Potter Pages into 7 instead of 4. Or have some of the WMG articles moved into some of the other pages.

      Which page is locked? WMG.Harry Potter is open for editing.

      WMG.Harry Potter Main is locked, since it's getting way too long. If you know how to split it, do it.
  • 2 Oct 12th, 2017 at 1:01AM
    Lastest Reply: 13th Oct, 2017 09:12:00 AM
    Hi everyone, I'm working on the TV Tropes page of "Typhoon" by Joseph Conrad and I'm looking for the name of a trope which describes the kind of racism where Conrad didn't mind using offensive slurs during his lifetime (especially how he constantly uses the term "coolie" for talking about chinese slaves).

    Edit: sorry, I'll ask that on Trope Finder. Reply
  • 1 Oct 6th, 2017 at 12:12PM
    Lastest Reply: 6th Oct, 2017 12:10:06 PM
    Okay, so, this is a pretty broad and weird and vague question, and I realize I'm new here, but I didn't know who else to turn to. Long time fan of the site, first time engaging with it like this. I have a lot of spare time, and I'm reaching 30 years old, and I kind of figured... why not write a fantasy novel, yeah? Seems like a pretty good, productive early on-set mid-life crisis. But I'm the kind of guy who likes to get to the core idea of a thing before I make something of it. Like, what is the core idea of fantasy fiction? What's it good for? Is there a binding philosophy that ties all fantasy fiction - sword and sorcery and the like - together? With Science Fiction, you can sort of elevator pitch all of it; it's speculative, it's looking towards a possible future for humanity and beyond. With fantasy though, you don't really have any pitch like that, to my knowledge. Your basic Tolkein style stuff was an exercise, as far as I can tell, in just sort of blending together various mythologies, but... why? Why go back to that well? Aside from the fact that "it's cool". Any help in working through this brain puzzle is appreciated. Reply

      I'm thinking you'll get more of a fitting response by hitting up the forums. The Writer's Block in particular is full of the people that you probably want to hear from.

      Good luck!
  • 3 Oct 5th, 2017 at 8:08PM
    Lastest Reply: 6th Oct, 2017 09:58:48 AM
    I've been working on a new page for a Short Story, but seeing as the story's less then 70 words long and very obscure (I only know about it because it was part of a old school project.) I was wonder if I could retype the story on this site and if so what page type should we be on? Reply

      Please don't post original work on this site.

      It depends on when this Short Story was published. If it's in the Public Domain and it doesn't break the flow of the page, there's no reason not to post it, though the only example I can think of where page does that is with The Progeny. If it's still copyrighted, then you shouldn't post the story and at most link to a place where it is legally available.

      But if this is a short story you made (which is what I think Fighteer meant by "original work") and it hasn't been published, then don't make a page for it.

      Um, no, this is not a site for hosting fiction, original or public domain. This is a site for analyzing fiction. Old public domain works can be hosted at Project Gutenberg or the Internet Archive, where they have people who are accustomed to checking and verifying such works, but not here.

      (Note: Theatre.The Progeny only has brief excerpts from the work. They may be the only surviving excerpts, but they're still just brief excerpts.)
  • 1 Oct 4th, 2017 at 6:06PM
    Lastest Reply: 4th Oct, 2017 08:34:42 PM
    The page for the book series [1] is in dire need of improvements if not complete overhaul. It’s full of grammatical and formatting errors, some tropes you’d EXPECT to be there (Fantastic Foxes, for examplé) aren’t, and little thought was given as to what went in there. (Two examples: The first time I came, I saw a HUNGER GAMES related quote [which I promptly edited out] and another time, I saw someone claiming something to be an inversion of Feminine Women Can Cook, when it had nothing to do with cooking.) This isn’t a single person effort. WHO’S WITH ME?! Reply

      And we also have an overload of spoiler tags.

      Let's see if we can get help in the general cleanup thread. If it's a lost cause, then it may need a cut.
  • 0 Sep 7th, 2017 at 11:11AM
    I was browsing some fanfic recommendations pages and noticed a lot of them have a different template than the main page one.

    here's how the main page goes: "Do warn when the fan fiction in question is an Alternate Universe Fic: not everybody likes that. Pairings or changes of a character's sexual orientation are also to be noted — after all, Shipping is Serious Business for many fans."

    And here's how others go:

    "Do warn when a fanfic may head into shipping or non-canon territory. Some people just don't like it, and as we all know, Shipping is Serious Business. "

    "Do warn when a fanfic may head into romantic or non-canon territory. Some people just don't like it, and as we all know, Shipping is Serious Business."

    "Do warn when a fanfic may head into romantic/sexual or non-canon territory. Some people just don't like it, and as we all know, Shipping is Serious Business." " Reply
  • 6 Aug 20th, 2017 at 2:02PM
    Lastest Reply: 29th Aug, 2017 11:43:25 PM
    I was hoping I wouldn't have to ask this question, but I just can't figure it out: I'm trying to create a page for my book, but I can't find the right category, or place to create it. I don't even know how to create a page in the first place. So, how do I create a page for a Web Original Fiction work? Reply

      First off, is your book published anywhere?

      Yes, on Wattpad.

      I already asked if I'm allowed to do it, that matter is solved. Now I just need to be ABLE to do it!

      Work Pages Are A Free Launch, just go ahead and start WebOriginal/TitleOfYourWorkHere.

      But I simply don't know where to create the page! I've been searching here a lot, and I just can't find a single button that says something like "create new page".

      Edit: Wait, I just found the guide on the link you sent me. Thank you!

      Just remember: it's your work, so you can't create YMMV pages for it.

      And it goes in Literature/, not any of the Web Original namespaces.
  • 2 Aug 18th, 2017 at 10:10PM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 05:47:53 AM
    Within the Untwist article, a vague reference is made to a "famous" book where a person leaves behind obvious clues that they are the murderer so that they may avoid double jeopardy within the courtroom, but not enough information is given to find the book through a google search. Can someone PLEASE tell me what this is referencing, and since the page states that "no examples are allowed" can someone decide whether to edit it to show what it is referencing or to not mention it at all? I just really can't stand finding a really good plot to a book that I can't read. Reply
  • 1 Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:07PM
    Lastest Reply: 19th Aug, 2017 01:31:47 AM
    Is it just me or are most of the Recap pages in the Literature section being misused.

    Looking through the pages they appear to consist of just lists of the books in the same series, the same lists but with a brief synopsis, or links to pages that contain that contain detailed synopsis of the entire plot but no tropes.

    Also if a work has enough tropes that they can be split across pages for individual books; then I have to wonder why they aren't in the literature namespace rather than the recap namespace (such as with the Harry Potter books), as this can create redundancies such as with the The Dresden Files which has both work pages and recap pages troping the individual books. Reply

      Seems like a task for a forum thread.
  • 3 Aug 18th, 2017 at 1:01PM
    Lastest Reply: 18th Aug, 2017 09:26:38 PM
    Immune opens with Raul suspended as Stephenson experiment. Where in Second Ship did this happen? Still not explained .in Immune. Reply

      ...what? What is this supposed to mean?

      You want the discussion page of The Rho Agenda there. Or possibly creating a headscratchers page for it.

      This is unsuitable for ATT, so locking.
  • 1 Aug 4th, 2017 at 7:07PM
    Lastest Reply: 4th Aug, 2017 10:01:17 PM
    So... Web Serial Novels are supposed to be in the Literature namespace, right?

    Because I've noticed that a lot of Japanese Web Serial Novels which received a Light Novel release after they got popular are listed only in the LightNovel/ namespace (without even a Literature/ redirect). They also aren't listed on the Web Serial Novel page, nor does that page have any mention of the medium's massive impact on the Japanese entertainment industry in general (EDIT: Added a paragraph on that). Works affected include but are not limited to:

    Gate is an exception, being listed in the Literature/ namespace, but it was initially published in more of a Doorstopper format and only broken up into light novels later (with some of the more controversial aspects edited out). As I understand it the manga was based mostly on the first edition of the books, and the anime mostly on the second.

    Death March to the Parallel World Rhapsody is listed in LightNovel/ but has a Literature/ redirect. Reply

      From Web Serial Novel: "Please note that these works go in the Literature/ namespace, and not Web Original."

      All the titles on your list should be moved to Literature/ with a LightNovel/ redirect.
  • 4 Aug 2nd, 2017 at 9:09AM
    Lastest Reply: 4th Aug, 2017 08:35:50 AM
    Somebody changed the page image without sending it to the Image Pickin list. They also forgot to modify/remove the caption text. This was from June 20. Reply

      If it was changed without discussion, please bring it to Image Pickin'. I'll send a helper message to the culprit.

      (courtesy link to page)

      Looking at the history, there wasn't a image pickin thread for the original image or the usual warning wasn't put on the page

      If there's an image, it doesn't matter how it was placed originally. Policy is to do an IP thread for any replacement.

      Image Picking thread here.
  • 1 Aug 1st, 2017 at 7:07PM
    Lastest Reply: 1st Aug, 2017 07:45:41 PM
    Okay, I have this character in mind that I want to write. His name is Valentino, and yes, he's Italian. When he was younger, his parents were alcoholics, and they accumulated a lot of debt, so they sold him as a Indentured servant to a wealthy family. There, he meet Johann, the grandson of the wealthy couple, who believes Tino is a girl because he was forced to wear a maids uniform while he worked with his family. Anyway, whenever Valentino was at his parent's house, they mistreated him. Like, a lot. His father sometimes beat him for not being a girl, like his father wanted him to be, and his mother would force him a small closet whenever she had guests over, and told him that if he made a sound, he would be beaten. Johann, who is three years older than Valentino, wrote to him often during the year. (He visited his grandparents during the summers, but stopped when his mother past away when he was twelve.) Valentino never received these letters, because his parents take them and hide them from Valentino until they stopped coming. Valentino never forgot Johann, and is sad because he thinks Johann forgot about him. When Valentino turned eighteen, he joined the navy and served a term (six years). When he revisits his parents, he is forced to clean out the attic, where he finds all of Johann's old letters. Valentino has enough of his parents and mails himself in a crate to his old friend. So, that's his backstory. Anyway, the problem I have is that I intend having Valentino be this innocent, fun-loving person, almost as if he's reliving his childhood, but I don't know if that falls in line with his backstory. I'm not a psychologist. Reply

      This seems like a question for the writer's section of the forums; Ask The Tropers is for questions about the site itself.
  • 6 Jul 29th, 2017 at 2:02PM
    Lastest Reply: 30th Jul, 2017 05:50:01 AM
    I'd edited NightmareFuel.The Little Mermaid's first entry to be less nattery, but spydre edited it back, saying "this isn't wikipedia; snark is allowed. Also, you didn't edit it correctly." when the original entry had forgotten a bullet point. I'd kept everything there was originally as well. I thought about changing it back but didn't want to start an edit war ^^;

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=NightmareFuel.TheLittleMermaid Reply

      Reverted; natter notifier sent.

      I dont know where do they think they are. Natter is a major nono.

      That edit reason shows either missing the point, confusion, or not caring. Successful snark works better when it's short.

      Also the Snark, is 1-Whiny, 2-Not Funny and it ruins the scare factor.

      spydre re-added the snark. He's edit-warring now.

      <sigh> Suspended.
  • 1 Jul 29th, 2017 at 5:05PM
    Lastest Reply: 29th Jul, 2017 10:20:22 PM
    The character folder for most characters are incredibly long since they represent the characters from all different adaptions, I think that the page should be split into:

    Characters. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (2005 Film)

    Characters. Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory

    Characters. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (Literature)

    Characters. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (2010 Opera)

    I just think it will be much more easy to browse the articles instead of having all the categories being on one page. Reply


      Why are the Willy Wonka characters on that page when the Film has its own page?

      The others may be an issue of subpage collision and likely warrant moving the parent/sub pages to dated/otherwise differentiated titles to avoid such collisions.

      Subpage, not subspace, autocorrect!
  • 9 Jul 17th, 2017 at 2:02AM
    Lastest Reply: 17th Jul, 2017 10:23:20 PM
    I have a problem with the following pages:

    Beyond the fact they're using hyphens, which mean they'll have to be moved anyway, as part of the effort to phase out hyphens in titles, I'm bothered by the fact they're using the "Literature/" namespace while being subpages of a work and not works themselves.

    Now, would it be correct to put them in the "Characters/" namespace? They're about character archetypes and not specific characters in a work, but I don't think that would stretch the definition of the namespace too much. Reply

      I almost think it's better to just cut those pages. They seem to just be list of character archetypes and ZCEs of characters who fit those archetypes.

      Also, the stinger at the end of Literature.Forty Five Master Characters should probably be cut, too, since we don't normally include the ISBN of books on their works pages...

      Eeeewwwwww.... Those articles are not consistent with our style guidelines. For one thing, the parent (45 Master Characters) is not a work of fiction, and would be deleted as a stub under our standard rules for such things. We don't trope dictionaries, for crying out loud. Cut the lot of 'em.

      45 Master Characters is fine to trope as it is a work about tropes so perfectl germane. But not having any tropes listed is a problem.

      On checking out the wicks for those pages, I realized they weren't recent creation, but moved from pages that were actually in Main/ — and those have existed at least since 2011. As such, they are treated as tropes and wicked on a few pages. Those moves were mainly the work of Justanid to make them better fit in the Namespace system, but other tropers contributed to their creation and development.

      Those pages/tropes were:

      Cutting the new pages would require first a de-wicking, and may surprise a few Tropers used to them. Maybe this ought to be discussed in a repair thread.

      It is not okay to treat work subpages as tropes. We need to clean that up if nothing else. I suggest a project thread.

      Those pages are listed on Books on Trope... Should everything in the page get a page on this site?

      'Cause I brought up and cut the Stith Thompson Motif Index about 3 months ago.

      At that time, Fighteer, you said that there's nothing tropable about the Index... But, Septimus Heap seems to disagree, as he says above that since these things we're discussing now, are about tropes, it should get a page?

      So which one is it? Or am I misinterpreting something?

      We've been talking it over. The general agreement is that if the book can get a wiki article that generally meets our standards — it has a list of tropes present or discussed, it has a non-stub description, and so on, then it can live on the wiki. But this obsession with listing out categories and then using them as quasi-tropes in other works is just painful. It needs to go.

      How other people describe and index tropes is completely irrelevant to our work here.

      I was moving work pages out of Main, I apologize for the hyphens. I'm willing to move the pages to non-hyphenated titles, but what's the consensus on keeping works pages split up like that? Also, I didn't get to the Evil Overlord List which is still in Main as I'm not sure what namespace it would go under.

      The original? Web something, I would say.

      The problem with those pages is they aren't in line with current guidelines and need to be salvaged or cut.

      Also, the original Evil Overlord page are locked, because copyright reasons, so you'll have to loop in the Locked Pages thread.
  • 4 Jul 15th, 2017 at 11:11PM
    Lastest Reply: 17th Jul, 2017 12:06:18 AM
    The series in a whole is pretty Trope Overdosed. I was wondering if we could split the examples for each of the installments in both the Literature and Film pages. Like create a page dedicated to the Fellowship of the Ring and the other individual installments. The Hobbit Trilogy has a different page for each installments. It just makes it easier to find the tropes for the film when it is organized into the different films. Reply

      Well the default action when a Trope page gets too big is to split it up into folders or sub-pages, according to alphabetization. That's already how it's done now on the LotR pages (the various Hobbit pages could really use that too).

      The Lord of the Rings was always considered one book / volume when it was published. It was just cut in three due to logistical publishing issues. Likewise the movie—people won't go see an 11-hour movie. Each movie roughly corresponded to each one of the books.

      The Hobbit movie is a different situation than the LoTR movie, as it is not just an adaptation of the book the Hobbit, but also incorporated significant parts of other Tolkien works. And it split the book story into three parts, while the book never was. That's why it's justified to split up the Hobbit Film pages into one per Film, but it doesn't seem like a good idea for the LotR works.

      Those logistical issues included paper supply. (WWII being only 10 years past -trees gotta grow.) Tolkien wanted the thing as one big honking volume. The paper supply was a factor in convincing him otherwise.

      Interesting how it was originally planned on being just one book. I still would like to see it sorted into the different installments but maybe instead there be folders showing examples from the series as a whole and the individual films.

      Please clarify? Because what I think you're suggesting doesn't sound how we normally organize pages. Yours sounds like it might encourage duplicate tropes, since people don't always CTRL F or scan the entire work -especially for something textbook size.
  • 1 Jul 2nd, 2017 at 12:12PM
    Lastest Reply: 2nd Jul, 2017 12:30:14 PM
    Could a page for Chaucer's Troilus and Criseyde be created? Reply
  • 9 Jun 20th, 2017 at 1:01PM
    Lastest Reply: 21st Jun, 2017 06:02:51 PM
    Someone is going and making a recap page for every single chapter in the Harry Potter books. Not every single book, a full page for each individual chapter. That seems a bit unusual and I thought I'd bring it up here to see if it's kosher or not. Reply

      I wouldn't think so? They're not published separately like the chapters of Web Serial Novels. Instead, they're done in whole books.

      They're also not listing tropes, just lists of Chekhovs Guns.

      Oh, my god. Cut ALL of that. I'm suspending them.

      Never mind.

      Starting the process of cutting all the Chekhov's Gun "recap" pages for the Harry Potter series. This will be fun.

      Slapped all the recap pages for Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone onto the cutlist. Edit, Done with Chamber of Secrets.

      Lent a hand, cutlisted all of Order of the Phoenix.

      All of the cut requests have been executed.

      Still a few pages there. Cutting a few because I'm on the road.

      Alright, ALL of the pages have been cut, as has the actual recap page where they were listed. The user who uploaded those pages got processed through the Edit Banned thread.

      I think this issue is dealt with.

      Concluding thought: Lol on Fighteer's reaction when he saw this.
  • 1 May 27th, 2017 at 11:11PM
    Lastest Reply: 28th May, 2017 07:57:27 PM
    I came across Literature.Rai Kirah today while checking my watchlist updates. It's a recently created page made by indigoazure.. The issue here is that, at the time of this writing, there's no description for the work whatsoever. All it has is, and I quote, "(Also commonly written as Rai-Kirah). A fantasy series of three books by Carol Berg." and then a list of the three books in the trilogy. There's a few issues with the tropes themselves, the most glaring being three tropes listed on one bullet and whose context was quotations direct from the book itself. I just flat out deleted those and commented out anything else blatantly zero context. (EDIT: The editor has fixed the three on one bullet tropes by putting at least two as their own tropes with context)

    I've sent the page creator a PM about fixing the description, specifically linking to How to Create a Works Page and quoting the relevant portion to make the point. I'm mostly posting here, too, to have everything "on the record" so to speak in case any further action is needed later. Reply

      (Googles) for reference, published 2000.
  • 4 May 16th, 2017 at 3:03AM
    Lastest Reply: 22nd May, 2017 11:28:49 PM
    (Definition: I use Crazysamaritian's point 3 as the definition of the word "series".)

    Let's say, at first there's the Original Series. And then there're several spinoffs of the Original Series, some of them qualify as a series on their own. Eventually, the publisher gave a "Superseries" title for the Original Series and all its Spinoffs.

    Suppose all the works described above uses the same work page. In that case, the work page should be named after the Superseries (following the First Installment and Franchise separation project), or the Original Series (for the best known title)? Reply

      If it's a single page, it is assumed that it would have been a Franchise/ page had the franchise received entries in enough media.

      This means that the page should be located at the superseries' names, with redirects from the individual series' names.

      The Multimedia Franchise namespace is reserved for works that already have at least three work pages (each in a different medium). I don't believe there is a strong preference for which of the two following methods are used to start troping a franchise:
      • A franchise page in the original medium.
      • A single work page in the original medium.
      Of course, the goal is a page for every work, and franchise pages for each grouping of the work.

      ^ & ^^: I'm referring to single-media franchises here. Rules of the Franchise/ namespace don't apply here.

      In that case, I would say yes. Use the official "superseries" title, but have redirects from the original series name. (And other series names.) That should make it easier if any of the individual series get split off later.

      Check out all the redirects which point to Alliance/Union, for example. (And that one already has separate pages for a number of its subseries or individual books as well.)
  • 1 May 17th, 2017 at 3:03PM
    Lastest Reply: 17th May, 2017 03:39:28 PM
    There was a book I read in elementary about this man that is weaving a blanket on a loom.

    He is in a hurry to beat the storm, so he decides to speed up the weaving in the middle. He ends the blanket like normal and finishes it.

    He goes to sleep and then a woman spirit enters his home and turns him into an armadillo.

    It was illustrated with pastel colors, if I am remembering right. It's more like a short story and has a page of illustration and words on every other page. I've looked up everything I could imagine but nothing else that would be obvious comes to mind. Reply
  • 1 May 14th, 2017 at 2:02AM
    Lastest Reply: 14th May, 2017 02:50:01 AM
    I know cartoons have their own tropes, but what about the cartoon's fanfiction? If they're looong and emotionally traumatising enough, do they get a place here? Reply

      Yes, we do trope fan fiction here. They go under the Fanfic/ namespace.
  • 1 May 12th, 2017 at 10:10AM
    Lastest Reply: 12th May, 2017 01:18:52 PM
    Been trying to fill in the works of two prolific writers, Ira Tabankin and P. S. Powers, both of which I know purely through Amazon, and I have a couple questions. At least three Tabankin titles start with numbers, is it acceptable to write them out and custom title the digits? Is it alright to make a creator page for Powers even though it's probably a penname and every "about the author" he writes consists of trolling? Do we have an "Teh Evil Moslems" trope besides Mideast Terrorists? Because it comes up a lot in Tabanlins books. Likewise Powers is incredibly fond of a specific protagonist, a hilariously humble yet skilled nerd who is incredibly shy around women, to the point of outright refusing to believe they want anything to do with him, who amasses an enormous fame and wealth without really noticing. Is there a way to ask for help with these besides adding them to the vast list of 'needs wiki magic love' and praying for a miracle? Reply

      In order...

      1)Yes, spell the numbers at the beginning of the names and use a custom title for display as digits.

      2)If, as your questions makes it seem, there is no actual verifiable data on Powers beyond the existence of the name, I wouldn't bother making one. Or, just keep it very basic "This person wrote the following, and frequently makes use of these tropes" with no real biographical info.

      3)Seek out Trope Finder for answers regarding "Teh Evil Moslems" and the oblivious nerdling.

      4)Try asking in relevant forum threads if any exist to see if there are other fans who might be willing to help.