• 13 Mar 6th, 2017 at 7:07PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 21st Mar, 2017 05:03:50 PM
    So I've actually had this on my watchlist for a while, but I want to see how I should move forward with this.

    So Universe-11N is a page that has a listing of random stories and shared tropes mad by Gfyftg, whose entire editing history is solely of editing these story pages. The problem is that this page and the specific story ones are littered with spoiler tags, ZC Es, and just general editing issues.

    Those problems aside, I did a quick Google search for all of the stories and "the young author Nathan Thornsbury". Nothing. None of this appears to exist anywhere on the internet.

    I also think that the editor is the author of these stories, but I have no way of actually proving that.

    How should I exactly proceed here? It's a large amount of pages, and I have no way of verifying that any of the tropes actually pertain to the story. Should I try to fix the pages and their issues? Cutlist them altogether? Move it to Darth Wiki? Reply

      Oh, by the way, none of the pages (the main page and the stories with links) are indexed.

      I did my own search with Universe 11 N on MSN, and got nothing. The only links I find are on Google, and they lead back to TV Tropes.


      I found a Nathan Thornsbury that has a connection to an author, but he's an 11th grader somewhere and he's not an author (the author in the article I found is Rick Riordan, the author of the Percy Jackson novels).

      The next links with my search "Nathan Thornsbury Author" lead back here.

      Sounds like someone else troping works that exist only in their heads or in personal files.

      Either cut or move to Unpublished Works in Darth Wiki.

      Susoended. Let's get an explanation of where these works are before anyone puts any work into trying to fix the pages.

      He also has VideoGame.Marvel DC Crisis Of Infinite Brands which seems to be entirely made up. Other than a wikia site (solely edited by the author) there's no sign of this on the web.

      The... optimism about that game also casts doubt on the veracity of his claim in the Edit/Banned thread about how there's a publisher who is planning on printing his books.

      All the articles should either be cut or transplanted to Darth Wiki.

      I'm transplanting the ones that at least have descriptions and some effort put into them (I've yet to look at all of them). Do unpublished works get Characters/ pages? (I know they don't get other subpages, but I want to check on that one before sending to the cutlist.)

      No, they do not get any subpages.

      Based on the troper's edit history and the Literature/ hub page, I think I got all of them. I cut the stubs, Characters/ and Literature/ pages, and I moved the non-stubs to Darth Wiki/. I indexed the survivors on Unpublished Works. I dewicked the pages that just won't exist once they're cut.

      Survivors:

      Stubs sent directly to cut list (in case anybody wants to defend them or move them):

      As for Gfyftg? His signature on the Edit Banned/Suspended thread makes me think HE'S the author. He even calls himself the "Creator of Universe 11N".

      Wouldn't be the first time 'I have this friend' came up.

      All we can do is see how he behaves.

      I didn't touch the Video Game/ pages yet. The following is based on the troper's edit history. I think the only extant work was Batman Arkham VR.

      EDIT: Okay, Crusaders of the Lost Idols does exist. I added it to the cut list seeing that it was a stub (and after nine or ten pages for non-extant works, I jumped the gun). The Lost Idols game has accrued over 50 inbounds with 2 wicks since October 2016, so I actually think it should stay in order to be expanded. I mentioned the fact that it actually exists on the discussion page.

      To everyone on this page, I have a clarification to make. This is Gfyftg, and yes, I am the author of said stories. The stories are not just head-canon but are actual novellas that I myself have written and am trying to get published officially. I wasn't aware that not yet released works are supposed to go onto the Darth Wiki, but now that I know that, I will be sure not to make the mistake again. As for the Marvel DC Video Game, that was also something that began of my own creation. It started as a family project that I made the Wikia for to let other people help create the game through crowd idea generation. Unfortunately, I have been the only person to edit it, because no one else has found the site and been willing to add to it.

      Also, I realize now that I should have been more directly transparent with the fact that I was the author of the novels as well as the account holder making those pages, and I do apologize. I did not mean to take advantage of the TV Tropes site or its users, or cause any undue confusion in any way. I have always loved TV Tropes. If you decide to move them to the Darth Wiki, I completely understand, and I apologize for any confusion or inconvenience I may have caused.

      EDIT: Also, the Rick Riordan article is old. I'm actually an outgoing senior and current college student now.
  • 7 Mar 19th, 2017 at 6:06AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 20th Mar, 2017 10:17:39 PM
    Is it okay to recreate the Twilight page? It seems like there are enough examples with citations to warrant it, and the reason the page was cut was because the examples had no citations. Reply

      Are they different examples than what's on the main page?

      Mostly, there are about four entries common to both pages.

      So will it be possible to do so?

      Well, you won't be able to do it directly since cut pages are automatically locked. I would suggest using a Sandbox, and then bringing your request to the Locked pages thread.

      Okay, so it should be like Sandbox.Twilight? This is my first time creating a sandbox.

      To minimize potential overlap, your best bet is making it Sandbox.Night Shade 96.

      Okay, thanks for the help.
  • 6 Mar 15th, 2017 at 2:02PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 16th Mar, 2017 12:17:04 AM
    I found this on the YMMV page of The Lord of the Rings under the Hilarious in Hindsight paragraphs:

    • Sauron has his own tower and his kingdom is surrounded by a wall. This becomes a lot funnier after a certain someone became the 45th President of the United States.

    Does this violate ROCEJ in regards to Trump? Reply

      Yes. It barely makes sense, just a shoehorn for a Take That!

      If you find similar entries, you can bring them up at this clean-up thread.

      Note that the first post in that thread says:

      "Donald Trump, as with any other current political figure, should not be a subject of any trope example on the wiki, except:
      • When the work in question specifically mentions the RL individual.
      • When the entirety of the example has to do with the portrayal of that individual in the work.
      • When the work is fictional.
      All three of these must apply. Alternatively:
      • When the RL individual has a creative role themselves, such as writing or acting in a work. In this sense we give them no more nor less treatment then we would any other creator.
      Additionally, please make sure to take out any examples of "Funny Aneurysm" Moment, Harsher in Hindsight, or Hilarious in Hindsight regarding these political figures." (emphasis added)

      I removed it with the edit reason of it being a violation of Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement and it's a shoehorned Take That! entry.

      You can also put a link to that thread in the edit reason field.

      Uh, yeah, that's a blatant Take That! against Trump, and outside the rules. I don't even know how whoever wrote that would make this connection.

      At least, not in my mind.
  • 3 Mar 15th, 2017 at 4:04AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 15th Mar, 2017 07:33:26 AM
    Do Light Novels count as Literature? Asking because I add an example of one to a couple of Literature tags without thinking about it first. Reply

      Light Novels have their own namespace, if that's what you're asking. If it's about example placements, I usually put the entry in the Literature folder if the trope/event only occurs in the LN. However, if a more well-known anime adaptation exists (as is usually the case), it goes under the Anime/Manga folder.

      @Adept So they don't count? Sorry for sounding dumb.

      (I didn't read the question well. Disregard.)
  • 8 Mar 13th, 2017 at 6:06PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 14th Mar, 2017 06:47:43 PM
    As noted in the intro, Minor Crime Reveals Major Plot is a very common plot in crime fiction, so that in some crime novel series, many installments have this kind of structure. So if I write for this trope for such series, should I write a general statement of that fact, like "Most installments of Alice and Bob is structured around this trope", or should I list the details of every example? Reply

      I think just saying that the works are structured around the trope without actually explaining it would make it a Zero-Context Example, so the latter way is the one you should go.

      You don't have to list every example. But you need to list specific examples.

      "Most episodes of Alice and Bob use this trope" is a what we call a "generic example". Those are not allowed and can be removed without discussion whenever they're found.. You need to list at least one and preferably two specific episodes and explain how the trope is used. You don't have to list a whole bunch of them and you certainly don't have to ltry to list all of them.

      General examples are specifically forbidden. So yes, every occurrence needs its own filled-out specific example.

      Echoing Xtifr: "You don't have to list every example. But you need to list specific examples." You might do something like...

      • Most installments of Alice and Bob are structured around this trope. Some notable examples include:
        • In the first episode, a jaywalking ticket leads to a murder conviction.
        • The arson investigation in the Christmas special is kicked off by a loitering charge.
        • In S3E12, Charlie's drug dealing is revealed to be a cover for a worldwide conspiracy to eradicate the giraffe.

      Thanks all. By the way, is it appropriate to list notably exceptions for the same series after listing notable (straight) examples?

      As far as I know, yes.

      If a series or work uses it so often that exceptions are memorable, then Yes, listing episodes that play with it is acceptable. If a series or work uses it so reliably that it's unexpected and surprising when they don't you could even go so far as to make the first bullet point a brief summary of some of the ways it was used, then further points individual episodes where it wasn't used.

      • Series X
        • Relies heavily on this trope, with the main crime of each episode being a murder or murders, but the original thing that Detective X is called in to solve including a lost dog in "Pupperkin", harassing phone calls in "Ring, Brrrrring", a stolen suitcase in "Body Bag", and forged checks in "Blank Check"
        • The episode "Let's All Play 'Cluedo' " actually starts and ends with X investigating only one crime, the suspicious death of a college girl. Murder is one of the first possibilities brought up as to what happened to her.

      Like that....
  • 4 Mar 12th, 2017 at 5:05AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 12th Mar, 2017 05:22:40 PM
    Literature/ThreeBodyProblem is the wrong title for the book The Three-Body Problem, since it lacks a "The". I am looking to move it to a new page called Literature/TheThreeBodyProblem. I checked How to Move a Page, but things look somewhat outdated and overly focused on Namespace migrations, and I'm currently stuck on how to move the discussion page.

    Actually, I just need some help with moving a discussion page. I hadn't started doing anything yet, because I haven't gotten everything planned out yet. I just need to know how do I move the discussion page. Reply

      You ask a moderator to move a discussion page. Better if you move the page first - the instructions on How To Move a Page still apply, you just use The Three-Body Problem as the target.

      I've moved the main page and subpages to their new locations and had placed the original page on Cut List (though I'm expecting some problems since it has like 1600 inbound links from other sites). I think it should be a good time to move the discussion as well unless the inbound link is such a big problem I'll have to revert all my edits and turn the page into a redirect instead.

      I had posted to Wick Migration thread and hollered with my own post about moving the discussion.

      Moving discussions or reviews can be asked directly in the Locked Pages thread. This thread is for any edit that can only be made by moderators.

      You can turn Three Body Problem into a redirect to The Three Body Problem if (when?) the cut is denied.
  • 2 Mar 10th, 2017 at 11:11PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 11th Mar, 2017 01:27:55 AM
    I am writing the work page for Theriomorph Chronicles. Right now I am writing the story of Untermenschen and I am trying to wrap up Chapter 5. Editing the work page was quite hard, although I am writing and familiar to the story in my head but I am trying to select tropes appropriate for this work page.

    Just remember to read the story on DeviantArt or FictionPress.

    I would be grateful if you can construct it for me, Reply

      This is not quite the place you want to promote your work, nor should it be. Take it to the forums at least.

      Technically speaking, the forum isn't an appropriate place either (except maybe having a general discussion thread for the work in Literature). Sorry to sound so discouraging, but we really do not work on such requests anywhere. Tropers who have interest in your story may trope it, if there aren't any you'll have to expand it yourself.
  • 4 Mar 6th, 2017 at 9:09PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 7th Mar, 2017 06:22:20 PM
    I intend to create a tvtropes page for the book Dreadnought. Problem is, the most logical url, "http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/Dreadnought", already exists as a redirect for http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/ClockworkCentury. Any way to fix? Reply

      Do you know how to edit redirects? If so, you can just create the Dreadnought page and check wicks afterward.

      To edit an article that redirects you, edit a different article, then in your browser's address bar, replace the article groupname (aka namespace) and title with the groupname and title of the one you want to edit (in this case groupname Literature and title Dreadnought).

      Alternatively: Go to the Clockwork Century page. Click on the "Related" button in the header. Click on the link to Literature/Dreadnought. Click on the edit button.

      That said, it might be a good idea to leave the redirect alone and create your page at Literature/DreadnoughtXXXX, where XXXX is the year the book was released. (Assuming the two different Dreadnoughts weren't released in the same year, in which case things would get complicated.)

  • 1 Mar 4th, 2017 at 5:05PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 4th Mar, 2017 05:59:41 PM
    Okay, this is a little vague, but I need help with this! So the book has a baseball theme to it, and the main conflict arose because of some kid on an opposing baseball team (as I said, baseball theme) took the protagonist's little brother's statuette that he got at Disneyland? It's very vague. The title was something like "The x street y's" or something like that. It was probably published in the mid-late 80's. I don't know if it had illustrations or not, but it did have chapters if that helps anyone out. I would really like to know this please! Reply
  • 18 Feb 22nd, 2017 at 11:11PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Feb, 2017 01:42:23 PM
    What are the rules for adding/removing examples of Complete Monster to YMMV pages?

    I'm asking because at February 20th, Demon Duckof Doom removed an example that was added around a month and a half before to YMMV.Surface Detail, without an edit reason. Reply

      All CM examples go through the dedicated forum thread. Examples that qualify are properly crosswicked and can be checked against the locked CM pages.

      Looks as though this one wasn't cross-wicked, and its threadbare description suggests it was almost certainly not discussed in the thread. An edit reason would have been nice, but the removal appears correctly motivated.

      There was so much misuse (ie: listing every really evil character when this trope is for the extreme of being both evil AND having literally no redeeming traits or sympathetic qualities) that every example has to be discussed in the forum thread and approved now.

      Doing horrible things isn't this trope. Doing horrible thing AND being completely unlikable with no redeeming qualities, Pet the Dog moments, or sympathetic excuses is.


      ^ Pretty sure "completely unlikable" isn't prerequisite. Ok, you don't like the character as a person, but they can be likable as a villain. Sometime they're incredible fun to watch, maybe they're only one who manage to counter the resident Mary Sue with The Reason You Suck Shut Up, Kirk!, for example.

      The criteria are discussed in the topic.

      • They must be exceptional in terms of heinousness, both within the context of the work and the context of general audience expectations for works of that type.
      • They must not be eclipsed in heinousness by other characters in the work, even if said characters themselves do not meet the standards for CM. (Note: Allowances may be made for wildly varying capabilities — a corporate overlord may do more net harm, but a serial killer is a much more personal threat and operates on a vastly different scale.)
      • They must not have any redeeming qualities, such as love, remorse, etc. If presented with the opportunity for redemption, they reject it.
      • They must not have a genuine excuse for their actions — any justification they bring to the table should be insufficient or clearly specious.
      • They must have agency — they must be in voluntary control of their own behavior and moral choices.
      • They must be characterized sufficiently to establish motivation and intent. A Generic Doomsday Villain may do awful things, but unless we get some sense of why they do it, they can't be a CM.
      • Their actions must be visible to the audience and they must be directly responsible for said actions. Offscreen Villainy usually doesn't count; heinousness cannot be an Informed Attribute.
      • They must be an individual, not a group.

      • They should be reviled In-Universe. If there's anyone out there expressing love or regard for them, and that character is not brainwashed or otherwise insane, it's a serious mitigating factor.
      • They may be comedic, so long as their humor value does not mitigate their evil. Villains who laugh while torturing and killing can be among the most terrifying.
      • They cannot be genuinely likable; any apparent affability must be a facade.
      • The work itself should be capable of believably sustaining a monstrous character without losing its audience. This is why most works intended for young children (a "G", "E", or equivalent rating) can't have a CM.

      • We will not consider creepypastas or dark fics where the sole or primary intent is to evoke horror or disgust without any consideration for verisimilitude with the canonical interpretation of a character or characters.

      I almost feel like we're starting to run afoul of Tropes Are Not Narrow with this one, guys...

      Not relevant in this case. CM is a subjective trope because people cannot agree on the criteria, and it becomes something of a stamp of honor for a work to claim one. The cleanup effort is intended to address the problem by establishing rules that allow it to at least maintain the veneer of objectivity. The trope itself is legendary and is not going away, but the alternative to being rigorous is to have literally every villain in every work listed, which is what was happening before we attacked it.

      I kind of thought that was the point of YMMV tropes, of which this seems to be marked a YMMV trope judging by the banner.


      The thing is, YMMV tropes still all have definitions. And people love to add Complete Monster without bothering to figure out if they fit the definition of it.

      And if we let CM just go the way it was going, damn near every single work would have Complete Monster listed effectively making it meaningless. For reasons beyond my comprehension, fans tend to want their pet work to have a CM and think that it makes them better so they shoehorn it in.

      You can longer call a trope an audience reaction in good faith when it has such a restrictive definition. It might as well be moved to the main work pages and have it's YMMV status revoked at that point.

      In theory, that's the goal. Whether we ever get there or not is another matter. As it stands, all CM examples get voted on in the topic, which rather disrupts the idea that it can be treated objectively.

      CM is also not an audience reaction. It's a subjective trope, which is different. A subjective trope is based on criteria observably present in the work, even if people may disagree about the extent to which it occurs.

      This is dependent of Moral Event Horizon, that is an Audience Reaction.

      Worth noting: Moral Event Horizon is not an audience reaction, either.

      That's not what subjective means

      It's unclear why we are having this argument. There are several classes of non-work, non-creator article that we recognize:

      • Objective tropes, which occur factually within a work
      • YMMV tropes, which are arguable in terms of presence or degree of presence
      • Trivia, which is interesting information that is external to the presentation of a work — you wouldn't know it just by watching
      • Audience reactions, which do not occur within a work at all, but rather in a viewer's thoughts or opinions about a work
      • Flame bait, which is a subcategory of YMMV trope and/or audience reaction that is so volatile that we've decided not to host examples at all

      In many cases, the difference between an objective and a YMMV trope is usage: does it cause arguments? Is it a constant source of natter? Do we keep having to clean up examples that are a matter of opinion rather than fact? In all these criteria, Complete Monster falls squarely into the YMMV category.

      However, YMMV tropes can still have definitions. They aren't an excuse to lump anything you feel like in there because "it's your opinion, man". The reason for the CM cleanup thread and the strict criteria that we've been applying is that people were literally shoveling any villain they thought was the slightest bit mean into it, making it meaningless. It can't be seriously defined as the "worst possible villain, with no redeeming qualities" when some teenager beating up his younger brother is held in the same category as Jack the Ripper.

      Shoboni: Let's put it this way. The subjective, YMMV aspect to Complete Monster is not "I would like to call this character a CM" (which was the case before the cleanup effort), because it would make the trope so subjective as to be meaningless. It would mean just "somebody out there really thinks this character is evil".

      Instead, the consensus has been to make a set of criteria, and the subjective part is "I think the character fulfils the criteria".

      In general on this wiki, YMMV does not mean anything goes. Ignoring this is likely to land you in trouble and other tropers with a cleanup effort.

      In attempting to fix it we've gone the opposite extreme and and IMO, I strongly believe the new definition runs afoul of Tropes Are Not Narrow because so many restrictions have been added.

      Regardless, we've answered the OP's question and I am locking this.
  • 9 Feb 6th, 2017 at 12:12PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 7th Feb, 2017 01:54:44 AM
    This disappeared from YMMV.I Robot last December:

    • Harsher in Hindsight: In "Evidence", Stephen Byerley, a liberal public prosecutor who really is doing things to stop crime and redeem criminals, is a candidate for mayor of NYC. He is accused abruptly of being a Ridiculously Human Robot, which would disqualify him from the election. Quinn, the political boss who propagates the rumor, is a conservative Sleazy Politician who admittedly couldn’t care less for the civil rights of his people, and so are his subordinates. The premise seems kind of silly and it's hard to believe that so many people would believe that Byerley is a robot based on such flimsy evidence. Sixty years after Asimov wrote this story, President Barack Obama faced accusations that he wasn't born an American citizen, and the principal promoter of that idea was Donald Trump. And in both cases, there were hardcases to whom no amount of proof was "proof."

    Could I put it back, or does it sound too political?

    Reply

      I'd say don't add it, as its the kind of stuff that's bound to generate trouble and natter.


      Seconded.

      Less we mention politics this cycle the better since it's bound to clog up work pages with discourse.

      Seems like a stretch.

      I think that it could be left in, but the stuff specific about Trump would be removed since it adds nothing to the example other than potential flame bait. Sadly, plenty of people genuinely believed Obama was not an American and the comparisons to Trump in particular are a stretch.

      But "political candidate running for a high office is accused of being something he isn't because it would make him ineligable and even though it's easily disproven, there are people who are pushing it" seems like a valid enough Harsher in Hindsight.

      Dump all the Harsher in Hindsight examples that are torturing any fictional event into some kind of retroactive reference to the 2016 elections.

      Why don't we just make anything related to recent Murican politics Flame Bait/a banned topic a la the hashtag that shall not be named and that one web series?

      It seems like a stretch to me, anyway. This story about a political candidate being accused of being something controversial is harsher in hindsight because years later a political candidate was accused of being something controversial?

      I agree. Trump needs to be banned outside of his (locked) useful notes page, factual tropes, and tropes about his portrayal in fiction. At the very least get rid of all Funny Aneurysm/Harsher/Hilarious in Hindsight tropes about him (and honestly about Hillary as well). I feel we should start a thread to keep all troping of him ROCEJ-friendly.

      Is there a general guideline about not warping trope examples to include non-relevant comparisons? I thought their might have been, but searching on my phone sucks.

      Would natter apply?

      What about shoehorning?

      Then there's Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement.

      And at least some of these political edits can be said to be causing damage to the Wiki because of where and how they show up.
  • 2 Feb 6th, 2017 at 10:10AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 6th Feb, 2017 01:50:53 PM
    While continuing to help dewick Brown Eyes, I came across this page: Characters.Uglies. It is full of ZCEs, formatting errors, and incorrectly used spoilers.note  The creator and main editor (the other two editors only fixed formatting errors) of this page is Story Master 77.

    Other things in Storymaster's edit history:

    I'm going to add Literature.Nose Pickers to the Cut List, and attempt to clean up their Zero Context Examples, but what should I do about Characters.Uglies? Should it just also be Cut Listed too? Reply

      Have you messaged them on their errors?

      I'll send them some and see if they respond.
  • 2 Jan 21st, 2017 at 7:07AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 21st Jan, 2017 08:58:30 AM
    When a work like, say, The Lord of the Rings has had an influence on popular culture to the extent that places and characters are namedropped in popular songs, other novels, throwaway lines in films, that is a _____? I couldn't find a specific place in the pages for The Lord of the Rings to describe things like Led Zeppelin and other bands, etc., mentioning people and places from the books. Reply

      This feels like a Trope Finder question but I'll bite. It seems you are looking for Referenced by... for specific examples.

      Please note that Referenced by... is trivia since it's not a part of the referenced work (Tolkien had no idea that Led Zeppelin would refer to LOTR, and so on). So it goes on the Trivia page for Lord of the Rings.

  • 10 Jan 20th, 2017 at 7:07AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 21st Jan, 2017 01:59:58 AM
    Recently found out there wasn't a page for the alt-history novel "Without Warning." But when I make it, somehow or other it turned from Literature Without Warning to Book Without Warning. How do I fix it? Reply

      No idea, but you did indeed create Book.Without Warning. Best thing to do is copy it to the proper namespace (Literature.Without Warning), then cutlist the bad page. Note that, given that there are title conflicts, you should not attempt to claim the title for the book. Rather, make it at Literature.Without Warning Novel or Literature.Without Warning XXXX where XXXX is the publication year, then request a custom title. That way there are no title collisions and the disambiguation page at Film.Without Warning can be updated... or rather, it should be recreated in Main.Without Warning and the Film page should be made a redirect.

      So, in the end, you'd have:


      Use the year for disambiguation, to be consistent with the film pages.

      Actually, the year is rarely used with books. Author last name is far more common.

      With films, the year makes sense, because they usually appear in theaters for a limited time, so there's a strong association with the year. Books can remain in the same bookstores where they first appeared for many years, so people aren't as likely to associate them with years. What they do associate them with is authors.

      I thought you only needed to add the year (or author) if there was a collision in the same namespace? So the Film ones have years, but the Literature one should be able to stand alone as Literature.Without Warning as long as we're only troping one book with that title.

      I thought you only needed to add the year (or author) if there was a collision in the same namespace? So the Film ones have years, but the Literature one should be able to stand alone as Literature.Without Warning as long as we're only troping one book with that title.

      The Bridge, The Bridge, The Bridge, and The Bridge show exactly why that's not the case.

      And The Bridge! But the namespace already indicates which one is which, since we only have one per medium- that's what I meant.

      And The Bridge! But the namespace already indicates which one is which, since we only have one per medium- that's what I meant.

      It clutters up the subpages, making everything difficult to navigate. The bridge is especially bad with all of those unrelated works.

      To clarify: you'll still have massive subpages collision between Film and Literature WW if you don't differentiate by author or year.
  • 1 Jan 20th, 2017 at 7:07AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 20th Jan, 2017 07:43:19 AM
    As in, is there a trope for when people completely embrace the stereotypes associated with them? Such as a blonde deliberately acting fun, ditzy, and dumb (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DumbBlonde)? I'm working on a works page for my web serial, Gamer Girl, wherein a lot of the characters play up to stereotypes as part of their superhero/subculture gimmick (gamer girl, comic book fangirl, tomboy, girly girl etc). I can'f find anything like it on the Stereotype page (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Stereotype). I can't just link the Stereotype page as a trope, can I? Reply
  • 1 Jan 18th, 2017 at 7:07AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 18th Jan, 2017 08:29:00 AM
    Hi, all. I want to create a works page for my web serial novel, Gamer Girl, and have been researching how on Administrivia / How to Create a Works Page (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Administrivia/HowToCreateAWorksPage?from=Main.HowToCreateAWorksPage). However, I've hit a snag. There's a 'Gamer Girl' novel by Mari Mancusi already on the site, so the http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Literature/GamerGirl URL is already taken. It tells you how to differentiate the UR Ls of identically named works where Recycled Titles (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RecycledTitle) are the issue on Administrivia / How to Create a Works Page, but not how to do this where unrelated Similarly Named Works (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SimilarlyNamedWorks) are concerned. In short, could someone tell me a way to differentiate my Gamer Girl web serial novel URL from the Gamer Girl novel URL? Reply

      Because your own novel was presumably released well after 2008, year disambiguation is the way to go. Use Literature.Gamer Girl 2017 (substituting the year of the first chapter release as appropriate).

      However, you should not move Mancusi's novel to Literature.Gamer Girl 2008 (or similar) without prior approval. Keep it at its current location for now.
  • 1 Jan 17th, 2017 at 8:08AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 17th Jan, 2017 08:53:37 AM
    Are unpublished works allowed on the regular wiki's indexes? Because DarthWiki.The Movement is currently on the index for FanFic.Literature. Reply

      No, it is not allowed there. Please remove it.
  • 1 Jan 17th, 2017 at 2:02AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 17th Jan, 2017 02:38:14 AM
    So where do I go to learn how to properly formatted page, because I noticed that a certain franchise, and I'm a decent fan of doesn't have a page on this wiki at all... and I would like to change that, but I don't want to break any rules or get myself in trouble simply due to being a complete newbie. Reply
  • 1 Jan 16th, 2017 at 11:11AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 16th Jan, 2017 11:56:38 AM
    Why is The Four Gospels still unlocked? It's a subsection of The Bible, which has been locked almost since its creation due to being textbook Flame Bait. Does Not Compute! Reply

      Has anyone done anything flame-baity in it? Obscurity probably helps here. But if you think it should be locked, take it to the Locked Pages topic.
  • 1 Jan 11th, 2017 at 12:12PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 11th Jan, 2017 01:12:08 PM
    Could we get a mod revert on Literature.Malazan Book Of The Fallen? Troper SorPepita removed the mark-up on almost all the commented out tropes on the page with the dit reason "Brought back some tropes which had content", which they do not have. The page is a mess and we're slowly chipping away at making it more presentable, but uncommenting it all back out would be a bunch of work. I sent a Zero Context notifier already as it was the most appropriate one I could find. Reply

      Suspended, reverted.
  • 5 Jan 6th, 2017 at 12:12PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 7th Jan, 2017 08:46:34 PM
    I just created a page for an Adrian Tchaikovsky novel called Children of Time - but to my surprise, after I'd created it I found it had a huge number of subpages already listed at the top. It turns out they're all subpages for a fanfic of the same name. Is there a way to unlink them or something? I've looked in the FAQ forum and tried searching but haven't found an answer. Reply

      Nope. You've run into what we call a title collision. The only way to solve it in the current system is to give the fanfic and the novel different titles. Now, as an original work, the novel ought to have precedence; this would require moving the fic and all its subpages to something like Children Of Time Fanfic, with the custom title Children of Time (Fanfic).

      Should I/can I do that, or is it something that needs to be passed on to mods or discussed with other tropers?

      In other cases, we simply make separate folders in the subpages for the different works. Not as satisfying, but often much easier. See the several works at Inferno (which is a disambiguation page) and its associated YMMV.Inferno page for an example.

      To fix a collision doesn't require specific permission. Not even from the page creator or author.

      Just leave lots of specific edit reasons, and you can totally ask for help. :)

      I usually prefer disambiguating by fandom or author if there's a fanfic name collision, but this one's a crossover written by two authors so neither is an option. Children Of Time Fanfic is the best option if disambiguation is required.
  • 5 Jan 1st, 2017 at 12:12AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 3rd Jan, 2017 11:39:13 AM
    Death Marching To The Parallel World Rhapsody has its examples on the main page sorted into three folders: "setting", "narrative/themes", and "characters". This isn't how pages are supposed to be organized, right? Should I get rid of the folders and put it all in one big list? Reply

      Some other pages are organized in the same way. I don't like them because it's not clear which trope fits where in most instances.

      Should I leave it, then?

      Does that introduction on the page make any sense to anyone?

      It almost makes sense, but it seems some crucial information is missing ("Casual clothes at level 1" seems to imply that he's thrown into some game world, but that's just my inference). It's extremly badly written anyway; for example, the second paragraph, although it (unlike the frist paragraph) actually makes sense, starts with a sentence fragment and continues with a sentence that can't make up its mind about whether it's about the story or about the protagonist...

      1) I say use alphabetized folders or otherwise cleaup the sorting. That kind of layout is begging for duplicated tropes. Characters can go on their own page if there's enough of them.

      2) That description needs cleanup. It seems to, deliberately or not, be trying to imitate the choppy English of the site.

      3) The site.
  • 4 Jan 1st, 2017 at 2:02PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 1st Jan, 2017 04:49:11 PM
    Hi, sorry but I know I got into trouble a while back for not putting new pages onto indexes quick enough. I've created a page for The True History Of The Blackfyre Rebellion... but for some reason despite me putting it on Fan Fic/Literature its not linking. I've been on the Indexing page but am still having trouble understanding what to do. Reply

      After testing with a null edit putting the [[index]] formatting on the index page fixed it

      My thanks.

      I would have thought that Ice and Fire would have it's own fanfic tab

      Mayhaps it should. I'd do so now, but I am busy.
  • 1 Dec 25th, 2016 at 3:03PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 25th Dec, 2016 05:14:20 PM
    Is there an active group of fans of Taylor Anderson's series Destroyermen? I am part of the author's fan community, and we have a few wikis and forums up, but I was hoping that there are some here who are interested. Maybe even be that we could make the wiki and trope pages super excellent. Reply

      The best place to go for this sort of thing is the forums. Start a topic in the appropriate Media forum (or find one if it already exists) and go to town.
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