• 11 Jun 8th, 2018 at 1:01PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 17th Jun, 2018 02:32:26 PM
    On the Harry Potter Philosopher's Stone YMMV page, there's this entry for Acceptable Targets:

    And also on the Goblet of Fire YMMV page:

    I don't feel that these are valid examples of Acceptable Targets. I explained my reasoning on the Goblet of Fire discussion page. But basically, while it's true that Dudley's weight is poked fun of, I don't see how that applies to overweight boys as a whole. I think that's a stretch. Hagrid is another heavy-set character, and a much nicer and more likeable person, and his weight isn't made fun of (as far as I can remember anyway; it's been a while since I read the books). To me, the entries feel like they're more targeted at J.K. Rowling herself to criticize her apparent hypocrisy on the issue, but I don't see how Rowling's comment in itself really has anything to do with Harry Potter. (I do agree with Rowling's later stance; I just feel it's a separate issue.)

    But that's just my take on it. I wanted to get some other opinions. Reply

      I agree with your reasoning.

      I also have to agree. And I'd add that the Double Standard potholes are particularly noxious, since even if the example was fair it'd be entirely possible for Rowling to have simply grown over time and it specifically mentions "years later".

      Thanks for the responses. I'll wait a couple days to see if anyone else wants to weigh in. If no-one objects, however, then I'll go ahead and remove the entries.

      I also agree.

      I always felt the Dursleys being described as overweight was meant to hammer home that Harry wasn't being fed properly. If Harry was being fed like Dudley then presumably he would have been of at least average weight.

      Hello, sorry for the late reply. I’m responsible for the original entries. I see why Rowling’s 2006 condemnation of fat-bashing on her website isn’t directly relevant to discussion of the books, but in light of her depiction of Dudley, it seemed an apt indication of her apparent bias. I’m willing to leave it out, but I do think Dudley qualifies as an Acceptable Target. He’s characterised with contemptuous reference to his weight, a love of bullying, and a tendency to throw tantrums over insufficient quantities of food and birthday presents. While his parents’ indulgence of him is comical, it’s shown to have nurtured maliciousness and avarice. Rowling implicitly seems to associate his appetite with this. The next three books follow suit in bashing Dudley. The impression that I, an overweight boy, got from this was that Rowling considered such proportions as mine to be so offensive as to warrant unabashed scorn for what she seemed to imply to stem from ill-bred decadence. Dudley is a target, whom Rowling considers acceptable. Rowling dismissed accusation of hypocrisy via reference to a fan-made list of her sympathetic weighty characters. Neville Longbottom is “round-faced,” but only nasty characters call him fat, Mrs Weasley is “plump,” but she’s had seven kids, the Fat Friar is outright fat, but he appears briefly, and in the cosy mantle of a folkloric archetype. Very fat Professor Slughorn is sympathetic, but Rowling does dwell on his greed for social standing and his fear of facing his memory of telling Voldemort about Horcruxes. Hagrid is unusually tall and broad because of his giant heritage. Dolores Umbridge is implied to be somewhat fat, but her slight excess of weight isn’t discussed like Dudley’s. In Half Blood Prince, Harry notes the excess weight of Hepzibah Smith, who comes across as complacent and self-entitled, but is spoken of sympathetically by Dumbledore as “that poor, besotted old woman.” As noted in the Acceptable Targets page for the overall series, characters considered by Rowling to be visually unattractive tend not to fare very well morally; Pansy Parkinson has “a face like a pug,” etc, but I can’t recall mention of any heavily overweight girls. In 2006, Rowling, on her website, lamented the pressure on girls to be thin, the often blatantly absurd accusations of excess weight sometimes flippantly used by girls to demean each other, and protested that she’d rather her two daughters were “a thousand things before thin.” The gist of it was that personal worth shouldn’t be denoted by visual fashionability. “Is fat really the worst thing a human being can be?” she protested. “Not to me.” I’m willing to leave it out if it violates TV Tropes’ rules, but I do feel it’s relevant.


      You just described how overweight characters in the Harry Potter series run the gamut of characterization, from evil to good, from petty to magnanimous. That does not support a claim of weight-bashing.

      "You just described how overweight characters in the Harry Potter series run the gamut of characterization, from evil to good, from petty to magnanimous. That does not support a claim of weight-bashing."

      Although the other examples of excess weight are lesser, yet the narration dwells on Dudley's weight.

      I understand what you're saying, and those are good points. The entries just sounded like Creator Bashing to me, which is against TVtropes policy. I'm not saying that to sound accusatory or anything, that was just my initial impression.

      It's true that Dudley's weight receives more focus, but I still don't see it as targeting or mocking overweight boys as a whole. Admittedly, I did forget that Hagrid's size was because he's half-giant. But even there, you still have characters like Neville and Mrs Weasley, where even if it's not pointed out as much, they too are heavy-set. Plus, I think the whole thing of Dudley's parental indulgence is just based around him being a spoiled kid.

      It more falls under the idea of various unpleasant characters each being ugly for different reasons. Which I think can be a bit of an unfortunate implication sometimes, but it is a common storytelling trope in general. Lastly, regarding Rowling's views about girls, I think it's simply a case that she matured over time, as 'nrjxll' pointed out. What Rowling may not have thought much about at the time of writing the books is something that she might be more aware of now.

      Hagrid being called a half-giant was a rumor in the first book, an insult about his size. The Fantastic Racism meant that he was less than a human/person.

      Hello Stardust Soldier, sorry for my late reply. I see your point that my listings stretch the specification of an Acceptable Target. I must admit, I did feel slight trepidation about the accusatory tone of my listings. While I feel quite strongly about the point, I concede that an Acceptable Targets listing isn't the place to discuss it, and I appreciate your amicability. If it's against the site policy, then of course I'll keep it out. Hello crazysamaratin, I just meant Hagrid is supposed to be supernaturally big rather than fat.

  • 2 Jun 13th, 2018 at 9:09AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 13th Jun, 2018 05:30:36 PM
    I just came upon 2+torture=5 name trope, and I remember seeing same name for the trope on a comic book or a book, written as an sarcastic answer exactly the same way. Is it possible for the writer to be inspired from here? Or this is a case of plagiarism? Reply

      It's a common phrase.

      This phrase goes back to (and probably predates) Ninteen Eighty Four, where the main character is actually tortured into believing that 2+2=5, so that the regime can make a point to him about how they control all information. So no, it's not whatever you think it is
  • 1 Jun 12th, 2018 at 1:01AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 12th Jun, 2018 01:43:57 AM
    First off, this is definitely not Dragon Slayer's Academy. I remember this one being a standalone book I read in the 5th grade, I believe? About 11 years ago.

    I remember two of the main characters. A boy who was a Paige and bullied by the other Paiges for getting the job of fighting the dragon, with one of them sitting on him. The other was the princess who disguised herself as a boy named Bill to go kill the dragon; I believe this was because her father promised that whoever killed the dragon would get to marry her, but I might just be blending other stories with this one since it's been a while. Reply
  • 1 Jun 11th, 2018 at 4:04PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 11th Jun, 2018 04:59:39 PM
    I'm planning on making a character sheet for Masks Of Aygrima when I do that should I remove any character specific tropes that are in it from the main page? Reply
  • 2 Jun 11th, 2018 at 5:05AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 11th Jun, 2018 07:38:18 AM
    I've seen a few mentions of how spoiler tags in Awesome/Funny/Heartwarming Moments pages should not exist. Does that also apply to Tear Jerker pages? I'm doing a bit of a cleanup for consistency and removing the spoiler tags on those pages for The Wheel of Time and wanted to make sure it applied to all four. Thanks. Reply

      All Moments should not have spoilers.

      It ESPECIALLY applies to Tear Jerker since these moments tend to involve death or shocking revelations, which makes them pretty much guaranteed to have tons of spoilers. I've seen a Tear Jerker page that didn't follow this rule, and if you scrolled down far enough your whole screen would have only whited-out text.

      Nightmare Fuel is also considered a Moments page, so they are also Spoilers Off.
  • 2 Jun 5th, 2018 at 9:09PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 5th Jun, 2018 11:14:56 PM
    I was wondering if it was possible to make a trope page for a fanfiction? How do I do it? Reply

      If you mean for your own fanfiction, then yes, that's fine; go to How To Create A Work Page for details. Just remember a few things: the page needs a non-stubby description and examples of at least three distinct tropes, all with proper explanation (no Zero Context Examples), all of which should be cross-wicked to the appropriate trope pages. The page itself should also be put on at least one suitable index.

      Remember also that The Fic May Be Yours, But The Trope Page Is Ours; you don't have final say on what can or cannot go on the page just because you're the author of the work. Along similar lines, don't write the page in the first person voice. And don't add audience reaction (i.e., YMMV) tropes for your own work; the audience decides how it reacts to a work, not the creator of the work. Similarly, don't add Word of God entries or any Trivia items that are not independently verifiable.

      As long as you keep that in mind, have at it!

      What mlsmithca said basically, but do we need to cite The Fic May Be Yours, But The Trope Page Is Ours whenever someone asks about creating a page for their work? It's somewhat presumptuous and the vast majority of people don't remove their work pages.
  • 8 May 28th, 2018 at 9:09PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 29th May, 2018 09:11:38 PM
    molesworth... The entire page reads like a Self Demonstrating article. Said self demonstrating includes a ton a grammar and spelling errors. The Fanfic Recs and Trivia pages have the same problem. Reply

      Bump

      Is it salvageable, or will it have to be rewritten from scratch?

      I've cleaned up the Fanfic Recs and Trivia pages, since they were quite small.

      The main page is going to be more of a project, I fear.

      At the very least, the self-demonstrating version should be preserved in some sort of Just for Fun/ space.

      I have to admire the dedication of whoever made that page, it is EXACTLY the same style as the novels. But it won't work as a main page, we should give it its Just for Fun in-its-own-style page.

      Well, I was one of the editors who worked to make that page conform to the style of the books; my dad loved them, and so do I.

      Anyway, the original version is now at SelfDemonstrating.Molesworth, and the Literature/ article is a bit closer to the wiki's style (it's the sort of thing that probably does require the service of someone familiar with the books). I've also added a commented out note encouraging editors of the Literature/ page to make the same edit they are about to make to the Self Demonstrating/ page as well.

      Should we do something similar for Raymond Sipe?

      Yes. Thankfully, the sub pages aren't like that, though the YMMV page is a bit of a stub.
  • 2 May 27th, 2018 at 5:05PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 27th May, 2018 06:18:34 PM
    I was browsing FanficRecs.The World Ends With You and saw a link to an author, followed by unsigned special recommendations of her fics without summaries or anything. Should I zap 'em?

    "* Special recommendations include Rhythm for humor and lighthearted fun, and Elegy and Wiping the Slate for drama."

    EDIT: Also two of the fics aren't even there anymore. Reply

      If we don't know who made the recommendation, it has to go. It looks like it might have been an addendum to the main rec writeup that should have been incorporated into it instead of being a separate bullet point, but it's no good if we have to guess.

      Ok! [zaps]
  • 1 May 2nd, 2018 at 9:09PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 2nd May, 2018 09:31:41 PM
    A few days ago, the troper "Hellucard 15" seriously vandalized the HoYay.Harry Potter page. The entire first half of the page was pretty much unreadable. It took a lot of work to revert all of it, but I think I got it all (I'll check the page again to make sure). It would have taken a lot of time for this person to vandalize the page to this extent, so there's definitely a risk that they'll strike again.

    Reply
  • 3 Apr 29th, 2018 at 2:02AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 29th Apr, 2018 08:09:23 PM
    I saw a scene from either the movie "Push", or "The Shaft" where this one character says "Yeah, and I'm Winnie the *$@%^!& Pooh"(More or less). Should that be added, or left out for being a profanity? Reply

      Yes. When quoting, don't censor swear words. Just put in the f-bomb unaltered.

      See Family Friendly for more info on stuff like this.

      Although, if you don't actually remember what movie it was in, you shouldn't add "either X or Y"
  • 2 Apr 28th, 2018 at 1:01PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 28th Apr, 2018 02:42:36 PM
    I find it strange how Huxley doesn't have his own creator page when much more niche writers do. Reply

      Then make one.

      ^ Basically. The main reason something doesn't have a page, barring P5 conflicts, is simply that nobody's made one. Assuming Aldous Huxley's work doesn't conflict with content rules of the site, no reason there can't be one.
  • 1 Apr 27th, 2018 at 5:05PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 27th Apr, 2018 06:26:31 PM
    Can a mod check Kawaii Koolness to see if they match I Ps with marciabradypink78? They are making the same kinds of edits to the Star Darlings pages, including lies and Fan Nicknames on character pages.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=KawaiiKoolness

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/el.php?findfor=marciabradypink78

    Reply

      Based on geolocation, they aren't likely to be the same person. They didn't both edit Star Darlings, either. But I'll call them in because they're doing other wrong things.
  • 2 Apr 23rd, 2018 at 10:10AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Apr, 2018 07:21:56 PM
    Sorry if the solution's obvious, but I'm lost. I've recently read Children of Blood and Bone by Tomi Adeyemi, but I can't find a trope page for it, and I don't know how to either make or suggest one. Could anyone give me a hint? Reply
  • 5 Apr 1st, 2018 at 8:08AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Apr, 2018 09:38:58 AM
    This page seems very inappropriately made. The issue of self-promotion aside, it contains many instances of This Troper, use of first person and a fair amount of Natter. Anyone familiar with the work care to do some clean-up? Reply

      Another issue is he even used the YMMV page, which is against the rules for creators.

      I've pared down the "Me! Me! Me!"-saturated introduction as best I can; the YMMV page has been thrown on the cutlist. As for the trope list, that might require someone actually familiar with the book.

      This one's been around for a long time, as the first edit in the history was back in prehistoric 2010.

      The troper who's been working on this was tracer, and they're still active. PM'ing them here.

      "I've pared down the Me! Me! Me!" You are awesome mlsmithca

      When I first created this page, it wasn't in the "Literature" category. It was in the now-defunct "Troper Works" category. At the time, most Troper Works pages WERE written in first-person, and it wasn't considered inappropriate at all.
  • 1 Apr 23rd, 2018 at 6:06AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 23rd Apr, 2018 06:58:44 AM
    I see a lot of bad writing in A Girl Who Brought Down the World, such as misusing the spoiler tags. Are the spoiler tags the only problem that you notice, or does the page itself need a bigger cleanup? Reply
  • 2 Apr 21st, 2018 at 4:04PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 21st Apr, 2018 05:01:58 PM
    So I was editing a page for a fanfic called The Awakening of Monika. Back then the title appeared like 'Fan Fic / The Awakening of Monika' just fine but now it looks like this: Fan Fic / The Awakeningof Monika

    Any idea how to fix this? Appreciate any help. Reply
  • 2 Apr 21st, 2018 at 10:10AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 21st Apr, 2018 10:40:18 AM
    For The Four Horsemen Universe work page, I have the various sub-series organized into folders in the intro section, but I'm wondering if it's possible to make TV Tropes show them as closed by default (due to length of the Short Story anthology section). Reply

      They are closed by default. If they're open for you, that's likely an error or Javascript stopping, on your end, or an intermittent error on ours.

      ^^ You probably just have the "Folders open by default" option set to ON on your profile, you can turn it off.
  • 4 Apr 19th, 2018 at 9:09PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 21st Apr, 2018 05:03:41 AM
    What type of coding does this website use for editing articles? Reply

      Check out Text Formatting Rules

      ^Thanks, but that doesn't really answer my question. Is this style completely unique to this site or something?

      Yes, it's fairly unique.

      The markup we use is based on an old fork of pmwiki, with a lot of customizations. I have no idea if there are any other sites still running on that platform.
  • 3 Apr 11th, 2018 at 9:09AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 11th Apr, 2018 11:34:48 AM
    Would it seem unusual to write an article about a book about a filmmaker who currently doesn't have her own page? Reply
  • 1 Apr 5th, 2018 at 2:02AM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 5th Apr, 2018 04:58:15 AM
    I found this historical, wholesome and sometimes-funny manga but only up to 10 chaps as a manga but loads and loads of chapters in https://fantasy-books.live/index/kusuriya-no-hitorigoto/ Can you guys make TV Tropes about this series? Its loads of fun yet not on this site...its kinda like Saiunkoku no Monogatari in setting, only, the MC is a Pharmacist and is mostly around her Consort Boss, fellow maids and a Eunuch. Its a funny and fun read with real-life palace intrigues and poisoning at play. Can you make TV Tropes about this series? Reply
  • 2 Mar 31st, 2018 at 7:07PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 1st Apr, 2018 12:47:53 PM
    Short Story is a medium; so it should be an index, not a list of examples, right? Reply
  • 5 Mar 29th, 2018 at 10:10PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 30th Mar, 2018 01:41:37 PM
    Please could someone review and trope it? Thank you

    0Reviews

    In a world of Zombies, one wrong step could kill you. When Nathan get's bit, his future is already set in stone, but not his friend Blake who is traveling with him. Follow the two as they journey Oregon as their story plays out before you and secrets come to light, some even more painful then a zombie bite.

    Reply

      Literature.Seven Days Before I Say Goodbye

      You can always start it yourself if it interests you. See How to Create a Works Page.

      And just fyi, it's against wiki guidelines to request a new works page (as opposed to just making it yourself). Some people will get miffed.

      Actually, it is okay to request work page creation if you can't do it yourself. Go to List of Shows That Need Summary, then the Summary.Literature section and add your work name as a red link there.

      Thank you, I will try to make it myself, I just don't know how but will worm on it. Sorry if I miffed someone, didn’t mean to.

      You can use a sandbox, for example Sandbox.Zombiewriter, to experiment with formatting and as a work-in-progress thing. Making unfinished (no good description, no three examples at least) pages is frowned upon, but sandbox pages are considered to be under construction by default. You can take your time building the work page and learning the ropes in there, then just copy over the contents when you are ready to create the real work page.
  • 1 Mar 29th, 2018 at 9:09PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 30th Mar, 2018 07:24:38 AM
    I was wondering if anyone has read The Keltiad, and would be willing to Trope it. It's a great series, if a little obscure, but I don't have the troping experience to do it justice. Reply
  • 1 Mar 18th, 2018 at 6:06PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 19th Mar, 2018 12:50:49 AM
    [Post writing this out edit: This can basically be summed up as "Does it count as Hoist By His Own Petard if the person who dies only dies as an indirect result of their actions/plotting?" and i'm specifically talking about Hamlet's death.] Would Hamlet's own death count as a case of "Hoist By His Own Petard"? Laertes was driven to murderous intent against hamlet because Hamlet's plotting resulted in the deaths of Laertes father and sister. It was killing ophelia that was the breaking point, and Hamlet had continuously pushed Ophelia towards madness as part of his scheme to feign insanity. Had Hamlet never driven Ophelia to madness he would not have died himself. So does this count as an indirect case of "Hoist By his own petard"? or is does it have to be a direct action that causes the death? (For those curious btw i'm actually writing a paper on this trope and how it applies to both Hamlet's character and the play as a whole) While i'm asking, would polonius's death also count as Hoist by His Own Petard? I'm pretty sure not because he was straight up stabbed, but he was stabbed because he was spying on Hamlet for the king. It's even more of a stretch than whether or not hamlet counts as HBHOP. Reply
  • 2 Mar 18th, 2018 at 12:12PM
    Literature
    Lastest Reply: 18th Mar, 2018 12:43:40 PM
    I am currently in grad school and I have papers to write but I am totally bored. I just finished reading Truly Devious and the Kingkiller Chronicles. They both put me in a mood to study because they take place in a college type atmosphere while also being entertaining. Any other similar suggestions? Reply
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