Narm Cleanup

I've decided to start a cleanup thread for Narm, since it seems to attract a lot of misuse and complaining. Like I said in my ATT post, "some misuse is easy to catch (e.g. saying a joke is Narm when Narm by definition can't be a joke), a lot of examples fall into grey areas that seem like misuse but it's hard to tell. Like nitpicks that at first glance seem to be valid examples, but feel like stretches the more you think about them."

I think one of the main reasons for misuse is that most people aren't clear on what Narm actually is. To my understanding, it's when a scene is intended to be dramatic, but comes off as cheesy/funny unintentionally. But going by the page description, it's kind of vague what actually qualifies something as Narm. At the top, it says "Narm is a moment that is supposed to be serious, but due to either over-sappiness, poor execution, excessive Melodrama, or the sheer absurdity of the situation, the drama is lost to the point of surpassing "cheesy" and becoming unintentionally funny." But then later on in the same page, it gives a much more vague definition:

In CGI movies or video games unrealistic movements or facial expressions may result in Narm. Dated special effects during dramatic scenes can cause Narm for younger audience members who were raised on nothing less convincing than the Phantom Menace. Totally Radical dialog in cartoons or commercials pandering to children can also be a rich source of Narm. Even a good performance in a bad movie can evoke Narm if the actor's performance isn't enough to save the scene.

That last sentence I feel just confuses the whole thing. It makes it sound like absolutely anything can count as Narm, no matter if it works in context or not.

Most often, Narm is misused to mean "anything I personally don't think worked," whether or not it was intended as dramatic or comes off as funny. And when a work is high-profile enough, hoo boy, pretty much every scene is Narm to somebody. You can look at the Narm subpages for Doctor Who, Star Wars, and Game of Thrones and find tons of examples of people nitpicking the tiniest of details in a scene and blowing whatever it is out of proportion.

Another problem is that since it's such a subjective trope, it's not clear if there's supposed to be any sort of in-fandom consensus on the example in-question, or if every example is valid under the "it's called YMMV for a reason" excuse, even if the only person who thinks the example is Narm is the troper who adds it in.

I think it needs to be clearer whether nitpicks are valid examples of Narm, especially since nitpicking overlaps so often with barely-disguised complaining. The most frequent offenders for Narm entries I see are complaining, nitpicking, adding jokes, and ZeroContextExamples. I'm going to use Venom (2018) as an example, with my comments in bold:

The scene of Eddie freaking out on the medical table is presented as the teaser's Money-Making Shot. It... doesn't quite work as intended, which isn't helped by it being sped up, making it look like a parody.
- The final trailer features a more complete version of the clip showing Venom's face "shutter" over Eddie. Whether or not this works or if it looks like a cheap special effect depends on who you ask.
- What makes the freakout even more narmful is that Eddie's screams are different screams playing on top of each other. The actual film lacks this strange effect. This example seems fine to me, but falls into the "The trailer is Narmy but the finished product isn't" doublespeak.
The leaked trailer revealed some pretty terrible lines (“The guy you work for is an evil person.”). Tom Hardy's horrible New York...ish(?) accent isn't doing the delivery any favors either. And it really does not help that his voice cracks on the reading of "evil person". Thankfully, that line is not in the film proper. Do we keep examples that are purely in the trailers? Also an example of "thing falls flat" instead of "thing is funny."
- Hardy's line reading of "You're not real, you are just in my head." sounds like he's suffering from Elmuh Fudd Syndwome. At worst, he sounds like Adam Sandler's signature Manchild babbling. However there's some speculation that, based on the context of the scene and Eddie's stumbling movements, he's actually drunk, or perhaps even overdosed on medication (considering he was seen taking a bunch of pills, thinking he's sick). That and it could be a case of Reality Ensues, as it's unlikely anyone would keep the mental clarity to speak normally as an alien parasite is slowly bonding with their body. Natter. Goes back and forth between snarky complaints and defending the moment. Also nitpicking.
- Movie trailers cutting quotes out of context to form a new sentence is nothing new, but the editing on the line "you will only hurt bad people" is particularly poor, and it's very easy to hear that the line has been cut together out of separate pieces of dialogue. Not really a dramatic thing, so I don't think it counts as Narm. And it definitely isn't funny, it just falls flat.
- How Jenny Slate's character pronounces "symbiote" ^note. Plus, her giving firm, equal stress to all three syllables like she's speaking some foreign language. Luckily, this was cut from the theatrical release. Nitpicking and not funny.
- The shot of Eddie crashing straight through a half-fallen tree in the forest that he could just as easily have ducked under comes across as more comedic than cool, as if they just needed an additional gratuitous shot of something breaking. Especially if your mind goes to Victor from Wet Hot American Summer and his inexplicable refusal to jump over anything. It really does not help that the evil bad-guy vehicle chasing him looks like a slightly modified golf cart. The context for this one in the movie is that Venom is taking control of his body and forcing him to blindly flee through the woods to escape the Life Foundation. Context makes it not-Narm. Cut?
- Although it may look better in the context of the full scene, Eddie flying 50 feet into the air on his motorcycle off a slightly steep hill seems to rather severely break the laws of physics. Clearly written before the movie came out. Cut?
The Jump Scare (on both sides of the fourth wall) where Venom suddenly shouts Eddie's name as he brushed his teeth would have been much more scary if not for the fact that the latter Screams Like a Little Girl. There's also the fact that he somehow throws himself backwards so hard that he crashes into the bathroom wall. Intended as comedic, so it isn't Narm.
Remember how creepy and awesome that shot from the second trailer of the symbiote forming around Eddie's face in order to eat a guy was? In the third trailer, the potential Nightmare Fuel of that moment is significantly undercut by Venom slobbering all over the man's face with its tongue in an amusingly over-the-top manner. One is reminded of the scene with Patrick licking the yellow popsicle, or perhaps "This is the taste of a liar".... This seems pretty in-character for Venom. I'm not sure with this one.
- The guy who Carlton Drake subjects to Orifice Invasion in the third trailer would have been disturbing, if not for the victim's bland expression. Moment that falls flat; not funny. Cut.
- The symbiote's Venom-face forming on the end of Eddie's arm to talk to him strongly resembles a deranged hand puppet rather than a vicious alien parasite. There's also the fact that they can communicate telepathically, making that sequence unnecessary. Seems fine.
- Venom's violent threats to his enemies are this if they're not aggressively tasteless Black Comedy. His threat to mutilate a man until he's "like a turd on the wind" is particularly groan-inducing, especially coming after a genuinely frightening threat. How It Should Have Ended was even driven by this to make a video on just the trailer for the very first time, in which he mangles a bunch of other sayings. Pretty sure they are intended as comedy, so it's not Narm. Cut.
The animation of the yellow symbiote just looks like mozzarella cheese come to life. Nitpick. Also... inaccurate? It's more of a mucus yellow.
After Venom heals Eddie's broken legs, he flatly states "My legs! They were broken... and now they're not broken..."
- "My leg!" Seems fine to me.
"HOSPITAL!!!! (extremely long pause) Now!" Zero-Context Example.
Eddie and Anne quite casually discussing cannibalism as one of the symbiote's favorite activities. It's something that would probably sincerely shock and disgust the average person and likely require therapy, and yet it's bandied about like it's a pretty normal occurrence. These kinds of entries are tricky to me. They seem valid at first glance, but there's something off about them. I don't think this one counts if the work itself is treating the moment lightly.
Any menace from Cletus Kasady is completely undercut by Woody Harrelson's truly ridiculous wig. A common comparison is that it causes him to look like a live-action Sideshow Bob, or a make-up-less Pennywise. Uses complainy word-choice. Otherwise fine.
Kasady promising that there will be "carnage" after he gets out is so on-the-nose that it feels like it's straight out of a parody. First off, that's not an example of Anvilicious. Secondly, this verges on a nitpick to me. I'm not sure. It's not really funny, just lame.
The final trade of words between Venom and Riot before the final battle is nothing but total Ham-to-Ham Combat - that and the two symbiotes happen to be Perpetual Smilers, which just gives off the feeling that they don't really give that much of a damn about their goals.
Riot: Venom...Get in the rocket!
Venom: No! We won't let you destroy this world!
Riot: Then die!

Nitpicking?

Towards the end of the film, it's revealed that Venom used to be something of a loser on his home planet, like Eddie. This is his entire reason for wanting to save the Earth. Moment played as a joke, so it isn't Narm.
Despite angrily forcing Eddie to spit out cooked meats because they're no longer living animals, the symbiote develops a taste for tater tots, and it practically demands that Eddie buy some during a conversation in the ending. The director admitted in an interview that the writers just thought it was funny and put it in the script. It unfortunately invites comparisons to a similar tots-focused scene in Napoleon Dynamite as a result. Entry admits it's a joke. So it isn't Narm.
Drake having bonded with Riot is treated as a huge shocking twist going into the final battle... except for the fact that the audience was already well aware of it and saw the whole process. It feels very much like a consequence of Executive Meddling to give Riot more screentime. Another tricky example. Seems to fall under "scene doesn't work" instead of "scene is funny."
Right after Eddie is separated from the symbiote, a rather obvious ADR overdub replaces the intended "fuck you" with the much less vicious "we're done". Not really funny, just falls flat.
Eddie's "DRAKE! STOP!" sounds less like he's in pain and more like a little kid telling his Big Brother Bully to stop giving him a wedgie. Nitpicking. Most people wouldn't even pay this sequence any mind.

Another issue with Narm is the distinction between moments that are unintentionally funny on their own, and moments that are only unintentionally funny after Memetic Mutation or similar feat. Does the latter truly count as Narm? Because you can make the case that everything that has ever been made can fall under that.

Edited by MisterApes-a-lot on Mar 31st 2019 at 7:06:31 AM

katrinahood Since: Feb, 2013

#1926: Oct 16th 2022 at 7:46:29 PM

Keep, but rewrite it.
Cut, because the example proper isn't an accurate description of what actually happens.
Cut.
Keep, but cut the reference to a reviewer.
Cut, there's nothing unintentionally funny about that.
Cut, because complaining.
Cut.
Cut.
Cut.

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]

She / Her

#1927: Oct 16th 2022 at 8:16:35 PM

Reposting (with something changed and one thing added on).

To make sure, Association Narm isn't allowed, right? I think I thought so at one point, I just realized that I want to be 100% sure. For the curious, I'm wondering because of this example from Narm.Friendship Is Failure:

* At the end of Write a Wrong, Celestia has all of Stone Heart's rewritten stories burned because he didn't like Twilight's edits to them. It brings to mind the Kirby: Right Back at Ya! episode "A Novel Approach" where King Dedede has the resident Harry Potter expies in Cappy Town burned simply because he Never Learned to Read. The difference is that Dedede's portrayed as an Evil Is Petty Authority in Name Only who's meant to be in the wrong for this action, while in-canon Reasonable Authority Figure and Big Good Princess Celestia is supposed to be in the right for the same act. In short, Celestia is making King Dedede look good right now. And that's not even the worst comparison possible. The idea of someone being supposedly likable while ordering a book burning is so wrong, it's hilarious and not infuriating, because it's unintentional.

If anyone is curious about my involvement with this entry, I did fix

an indentation error it once had, though I didn't add the entry

.

If possible, I would like to hear what you all think of this entry. I personally don't think it's valid, for the curious.

ChloeJessica Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: Awaiting my mail-order bride

#1928: Oct 16th 2022 at 8:18:50 PM

that looks like textbook Fan Myopia to me. we'd cut it if it was a Hindsight entry, so i see no reason to apply different standards here.

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]

She / Her

#1929: Oct 16th 2022 at 9:01:19 PM

Thanks. Also, do you know if there are any policies or something like that regarding Association Narm?

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Oct 17th 2022 at 5:34:00 AM

TantaMonty Since: Aug, 2017

#1930: Oct 17th 2022 at 5:03:28 AM

Castlevania has a lot of examples, but I believe every single one of them is misuse. The work's plot is paper-thin, so the entries are only there to poke fun at random things for the hell of it. Here are the worst of the bunch:

Examples

Any time there is dialogue in Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. Alucard's voice actor is surprisingly good, but the script makes one want to cry. The most infamous examples are Richter's "Die, monster! You don't belong in this world!" and Dracula's "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough talk, have at you!"
General example and complaining. Every sub-bullet below it is Natter and more snarking.
In Castlevania 64, a nearly-functional Jump Scare is spoiled because the vampire in question must have jumped straight out of a solid oak table in the middle of the room to attack the player from the angle he does. To conceal this, in the next shot, the table vanishes.
Not funny, Fridge Logic
The infamous Cthulhu/Malachi name switch. Even in subsequent games, Malachi (who is supposed to be Cthulhu) kept the wrong name, though as the Lovecraft estate can be rather litigious, this was probably for the best. To make it even funnier, Malachi is meant to be the lesser of two evils, as that particular enemy is, in the Japanese version, just straight up called...Evil. Okay sure.
How is a Dub Name Change like this funny?
Dawn of Sorrow has a player-induced one. One of the bad guys, Dmitrii, has the ability to copy any attack used on him and will keep using that attack. The Apprentice Witch Bullet Soul shoots out a purple cat that will give a high-pitched meow. During the battle, dramatic rock like music plays. Thus, it is possible for the entire battle to consist of two people throwing small purple cats at each other to epic battle music.
Player-induced moments are not eligible for this trope.
DIE SHANOA!
- HOW DARE YOU!
- EVEN FORGETTING!
- WHO RAISED YOU!
Zero-context example that transcribes some of the game's dialogue and violates the wiki's example indentation rules.
Shaft. There is an evil priest named Shaft. More specifically, a dark-skinned evil priest named Shaft. It is physically impossible to see or think of him without thinking of blaxploitation.
I don't think this one requires a detailed explanation.
The Mine of Judgement theme from Dawn is just... way, way, way too chipper and upbeat for a Castlevania game. It happens to be a redone tune from the arcade game Haunted Castle, "Clock Tower's Beat," but still.
Not a funny moment, Soundtrack Dissonance.
Dracula's One-Winged Angel form in the original Castlevania, aka the Cookie Monster. Fortunately, updates to this form in Castlevania Chronicles and Castlevania: Rondo of Blood look a lot more menacing.
Nightmare Retardant
In the English translation of Super Castlevania IV, the Dual Bosses were named Paula Abghoul and Fred Askare. Really, every single instruction manual for the NES and SNES games was brimming with things like that. Apparently, the copywriters at Konami USA vastly overestimated their sense of humor, and they tossed out whatever canon Konami had come up and replaced it with some of the most painfully, wretchedly terrible jokes and puns you'll ever see. The result is basically reverse Narm; it's trying to be funny, but fails so hard that it makes the reader a little sad inside. And no, Konami's other properties like Contra and Metal Gear didn't escape this treatment, either.
The entry itself admits it's misuse.

Any objections before I send the page to the cutlist?

Edited by TantaMonty on Oct 17th 2022 at 5:03:59 AM

MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018

#1931: Oct 17th 2022 at 12:09:50 PM

I'm not sure if we have a hard rule against Association Narm, or if that's just a conclusion the cleanup thread came to over time since it violates the spirit of Narm.

Because it's a combination of Fan Myopia (which I believe we do have rules against for things like the Hindsight audience reactions) and the moment in question usually not being funny on its own, since you could say literally any scene reminds you of something from another work.

Plus, Association Narm examples often take the form of something really flimsy, like "This scene of Bob tearfully saying he misses his wife is funny because he uses the phrase "my wife" at some point, which makes me think of Borat. Therefore the scene is Narm."

Your reasoning seems solid to me.

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]

She / Her

#1932: Oct 17th 2022 at 1:33:03 PM

Thanks.

TantaMonty Since: Aug, 2017

#1933: Oct 17th 2022 at 3:20:19 PM

While I'm at it, I'm going to cutlist Devil May Cry as well. Reasons below.

Devil May Cry 1

The game has very inconsistent translators and thus has the unfortunate tendency to fall right into these. Fans still cherish Dante's sorrowful cry over Trish's dead body after the Mundus fight: "I should have been the one to fill your dark soul with LIIiiiiiIGGGGHHHTTT!" For an edgy Stylish Action video game, the line wouldn't sound out of place in a Kingdom Hearts game, which tends to be filled with Anvilicious dialogue revolving around Light Is Good and Dark Is Evil, and it isn't helped by the fact that Dante's voice cracks halfway through yelling 'LIIIIIGGGGHHHTTT!', which then echoes dramatically as the music swells up at the same time.
Pure complaining
Dante himself is a barrel of narm. Is he cool? Yeah, but that doesn't stop the fact that the dude is the literal embodiment of 90's action movie cheese. It's a wonder how he survived to this day.
General example

Devil May Cry 2

Lucia's accent disappears mid-sentence.
General example, just a flaw
Then we have the glorious, squealy Large Ham that is Arius:
"Wheeeeeooooooo!"
"IIIII wes going to be deh KEEEEEEEEENG of dis whiiiiirld...."
Random quotes are not examples

Devil May Cry 3 Dantes Awakening

The cutscene before the boss fight with Lady leaps to mind.
ZCE
"...And now, my soul is saying it want sto stop youuu!"
ZCE
Though an awesome moment for Lady as she finally kills her father, it's undercut by Arkham's eyes bulging out and his scream sounding completely different to his voice. For what it's worth though, the scene does get back on track afterwards and at this point, it's practically series tradition to have at least one narmy scene at the end.
Not funny; example contradicts itself

Devil May Cry 4

The game continues the tradition of narm with insanely corny one liners and a secret ending's Angels Pose that looks like it came from Charlie's Angels.
General example
It is worth mentioning, however, that many people are used to the overly narmy sequences in Devil May Cry, it becomes laugh-out-loud funny, particularly in the fourth installment. The cutscene in which Dante shows off Lucifer and the secret ending above leap to mind, especially when the Double Entendre (single entendre?) is that blatant...
Meant to be funny
Let's talk about the fact that Dante is dressed like some sort of cowboy◊. With crotchless chaps.
Not a moment
"KYYRRRIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Nero is Narm incarnate above all else.
Random quotes are not examples

DMC

While Sparda's fate is supposed to give the players horror, nobody can get over the fact that he was nearly naked in his only shot and that he looked close to a sadomasochist.
Lacks context
Dante and Succubus' trashtalk is close to being Narm Charm thanks to the Memetic Mutation.
Not this trope, then.
The voice acting becomes laughable with the lack of emphasis when characters make insults. Dante's voice acting is often hard to understand which resulted in comparisons with a participant from Gordon Ramsay's show.
General example
Vergil's car is quite funny looking and even has a V. It has been nicknamed as the "Vergil Mobile."
Not a moment
Vergil's also packing what was presumably meant to be a Fedora of Asskicking, but considering his rebellious group tries to come off as a pastiche of Anonymous, it makes him look more like a fedora-tipping hipster with a bad sense of fashion trying too hard to look cool. Notably, the Definitive Edition removed the fedora altogether.
Not a moment
When Mundus unleashes his rage over Dante he simply pushes him with his hands. It almost looks like he is trying to hug him. Meanwhile Vergil is just down the hall waiting for an opportunity, and pokes his face around the corner making a rather strange expression with his mouth open. Just this moment alone resulted in people calling him things like "Vorgul" due to how ridiculous it looked.
Shoehorned example that lacks context and was written to complain about the game
In the Vergil's Downfall DLC, Vergil's screams of pain during gameplay can result in good laughs.
ZCE

Devil May Cry 5

Nero's scream right after his Devil Bringer is amputated by the mysterious attacker can come off as a version of the famous Wilhelm Scream.
It can't.
Based on comments about the Gamescom 2018 trailer, Dante's motorcycle transforming into two spinning chainsaw blades is utterly cheesy and 100% awesome.
The example contradicts itself

katrinahood Since: Feb, 2013

#1934: Oct 17th 2022 at 4:16:51 PM

Cut away!

MrMediaGuy2 Since: Jun, 2015

#1935: Oct 19th 2022 at 7:04:14 PM

So this is an Unintentionally Sympathetic example that was added to SpongeBob SquarePants. Is the narm pothole here warranted?

In "Ditchin'," Sandy's badminton partner, Dale, is revealed to be a criminal whose problems apparently started when he began ditching class, which convinces an already guilty SpongeBob to return to boating school. However, the way this is revealed is that Dale is suddenly surrounded by cops, the cops declare that they "know [Dale]'s violated his parole somehow," and proceed to arrest Dale because he has a bag of gummy fish in his pocket, basically accusing him of cannibalism. It's apparently supposed to be a G-Rated Drug, but the scene instead comes off as the cops just looking for any excuse they can to harass Dale.

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]

She / Her

#1936: Oct 19th 2022 at 7:14:51 PM

I'm pretty sure that was played for humor, so I'd remove it personally.

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014

No longer active.

#1937: Oct 22nd 2022 at 5:18:00 PM

Looking through YMMV.Kate Bush, I feel that there's much to be said about the Narm points listed there:

Narm: Kate Bush has a tendency to write great songs that are nearly ruined by a line or two, like "Mmm, yes, I said mmm, yes" from "The Sensual World".
- Though on the surface this would appear to be Narm, the song is based around Molly Bloom's soliloquy in the final chapter of Ulysses where the word "yes" is featured prominently.
- How about "Wuthering Heights" and its video? "Heathcliff! It's me, Cathy, I've come home! I'm so co-o-old, let me in-a your window." Combine that with her extremely bizarre dancing, which eventually turns into random spinning, and her bright red lipstick and dress, and you've got an incredibly Narmy ballad.
  - In the first (British) video she wears a white dress and performs a similar weird dance in a featureless, dark, foggy room. She begins the song by springing up like a mushroom from a sort of meditative pose.
- The way she says "GODDDDDD" in "Running Up That Hill".
  - And the "modern" dancing in that video? My eyeeeees!
- What about when Kate stares at you in her music videos? Skip to 0:53 and say that's not narm.
- "Song of Solomon"'s eloquent line "I don't want your bullshit/I want your sexuality!". Sung in a high-pitched girly voice. Granted, it's to be expected when singing a song named after an infamously sexual book in the Bible, but regardless, Spit Take in 3... 2... 1...
  - Certainly not helped by the way she pronounces sexuality.
- In "Houdini" (an otherwise great song), Kate suddenly screams "With your spit still on my lip, you hit the water!" in some kind of vocal fry.
- In "Get Out of My House" there's a part where she and her backup singer start making squealing noises for no reason (Makes Just as Much Sense in Context).
  - But all the narm is what makes it so "Kate."

Namely, most of this is conversational and lacking context, not really explaining why these portions would be unintentionally amusing. Much of it also violates Weblinks Are Not Examples. I'm not too sure about the other points, but at the very least I could come up with this rewrite in regards to "Wuthering Heights":

Narm: While "Wuthering Heights" was highly acclaimed from the outset, a common criticism was that Bush's performance felt oddly silly for a song based on a famous drama novel. Of particular notice were her high-pitched singing and her spin-heavy dancing in the music videos, which are meant to invoke the distressing image of Catherine Earnshaw's ghost but instead came off to many viewers in 1978 as goofy.

Thoughts on this and the rest?

Edited by bowserbros on Oct 22nd 2022 at 5:18:16 AM

Be kind.

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love

Big Catch, Sparkle Edition

#1938: Oct 22nd 2022 at 5:22:33 PM

@ Spongebob example: Yeah, that was Played for Laughs, and the cops in Spongebob have always been shown as petty and incompetent, so this is just standard for Bikini Bottom. He wasn't being singled out or harassed.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014

#1939: Oct 22nd 2022 at 10:14:10 PM

I would just cut that all. The Wuthering Heights one is the same as the rest, needless snark.

If "silly/weird/goofy dancing" is all that it takes to make a music video be Narm, that's basically every music video ever made with dancing in it. Somebody will find it odd. Also, they all duck an obvious question: how "serious" does Kate Bush intend for her music to be? For "wuthering Heights" Is there no room for whimsy allowed in a song/music video made by an 18 year old about a book she liked?

Once, I saw a music video where a spider crawls around in a teenager's mouth, but to anyone watching it's so obvious the spider wasn't in her mouth the whole time, they shot and edited around that! Immersion ruined, the song is pure Narm now.

I can also pretty much guarantee the kinds of people critiquing Kate Bush's dancing in a music video she made in 1978 are probably not doing so because it doesn't match the serious tone of a novel from the 19th century.

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014

No longer active.

#1940: Oct 23rd 2022 at 9:10:39 AM

Yeah, those are all some pretty good points; I only tried rewriting the "Wuthering Heights" one because Narm Charm right below the list says that the video "polarized critics" when it came out. Regardless, I've cut out the Narm list while citing this thread.

Be kind.

TantaMonty Since: Aug, 2017

#1941: Oct 30th 2022 at 10:51:37 AM

Cut the following examples from Metal Gear Solid 4, with explanations below.

Massive Wall of Text

Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots had "War has changed" being said repeatedly as a tagline for the game, but fell flat especially when seen or heard by the fans of Fallout which, more subtly, preaches the opposite thing mellowly and only as a Book Ends to the beginning and end of each game, compared to this game where Snake says it at the end of every paragraph in his intro narration. Obvious misuse. Just because two works have different messages doesn't mean one is made funnier by the other
Raiden whining that "It even rained the day I was born...". That line's pure OTT emo whether or not it was rasped out matter-of-factly or shouted. Wangst
- Snake's response was arguably worse: "You've got it all wrong! You were the lightning in that rain! You can still shine through the darkness!" Careful Snake, you'll make Otacon jealous... Natter, complaining, the last sentence makes no sense
The hilarious scene where Otacon breaks down in tears while watching Naomi's final transmission. It would've been sad if he weren't clutching to his chest, of all the goddamn things in the world, a MacBook Pro. I fail to understand how such a minor detail makes this scene funny
Gekkos. While it has its basis in Japan's history dating World War II, it's rather embarrassing that the toughest enemies in the game sound like cattle. Not a moment
Snake's impassioned heavenward cry of "LIIIIIQQQQQQQQUUUUUUUIIIIIIIDDDD!" during the final fight. The fact that it looks like he's crotch thrusting adds to it. Lacks context
- Every other time he shouts the name, he grunts it out as fast as possible. "LIQID!" General example
Raging Raven/Beauty's crazy speech that establishes her personal fears and psychoses is ruined by one line: "The Ravens are pecking at my flesh! And my soul!" The speech is perfectly fine and disturbing otherwise. Nitpicking
- Her screaming out "RAAAAAAAGE! RAAAAAAAAAGE!". No context'
- Whereas Laughing Beauty's speech is ruined right at the outset, as it begins with "I...am an octopus. An EIGHT LEGGED BEAST!" Complaining
- There's also the part right after where she vomits ink. It would have been perfectly acceptable if she didn't keep vomiting for like five or six seconds straight without her stopping for breath or, indeed, without the ink-vomit ever receding. Ditto
- During Raging Raven's fight, when you manage to get her out of her robotic suit, she begins ranting, and it's kind of creepy. Then you get an R1 (first person view during cutscene) moment when she turns away from Snake, and he's looking directly at her well-shaped but fucking crazy ass. Reworded this to conform with the wiki's no lewdness policy
The backstories of the members of the Beauty and the Beast Unit were too over the top to take seriously. Except for Crying Wolf's and Raging Raven's. This and every sub-bullet below it is pure snarking
- Laughing Octopus's story is perfectly creepy if you just roll with it (hey, theoretically, it could happen). And then comes the bit about the spilled blood of the torture victims turning ink black. You-u-u lost me there, Drebin.
- Some can't help but to laugh after hearing some of their backstories, simply because they were so implausible; Drebin's over-dramatic delivery just heightened the Narm. One almost expects more melodramatic things from them.
- The inherent seriousness of the situation and the somber music just added to the Narminess.
  - See here for a Drebin Mad Libs generator.
- Octopus's backstory revolving around a cult that kills people for eating octopus is based on a commonly-repeated but untrue Japanese factoid about Westerners not eating octopus because they associate it with the Devil. Since this idea isn't even known about in the West, most Western players found her backstory to be baffling, surreal nonsense.
The B&B Unit in general. They're a squad of weaponized furries. Not a moment, general
When Naomi dies, what would have been an extraordinarily sad scene is ruined because Otacon is present in the form of a little robot that flails in a cutesy manner as Otacon is crying. Nitpicking; most players find this scene genuinely tragic. Every sub-bullet below is snarking
- Her dying words are spoken outside the hearing range of Otacon and Snake.
  - "Hey, come back you bastards, I'm not finished dying yet!" Snake and Otacon have a big emotional moment and drive off into the sunset together before she even lost consciousness! Charming.
  - What is just plain silly is how, the moment her nanomachines are suppressed, the cancer kills her. Super cancer to the rescue!
  - Worse than that: nanomachines, which the game consistently assigns near magically omnipotent properties - they allow Vamp to get back up less than two minutes after getting his brain scrambled by a 5.56 and in a later game they're able to reattach a recently-severed limb simply by placing it back over the stump - somehow could only "hold back" the cancer, rather than kill the cancerous cells and cure it entirely.
- What killed the scene was how hammy she was being as she died. It's like Snake and Otacon were unaware that she was dying so she forced them to pay attention to her.
  - Not to mention Otacon's hamminess. Bear in mind, this was a woman he'd recently met and slept with one time. If anything killed the scene, it was him sobbing, "Just when I was ready to love again!" Bonus because this has the effect of reminding the player of the narm in Otacon's other "girlfriends'" deaths.
- Rather than reflexively reaching out toward the dying Naomi, Otacon must be using the unquestionably complex remote controls to manipulate the robot into a simulation of a simple human gesture. It kills the drama when it is understood that the character, by necessity, must be making a conscious and complicated effort to create the appearance of an instinctive human reaction.
Meryl mentions "the System." So?
Snake says "huh?" or repeats what was said back. (If a coin was given to charity every time he said "huh?" then there would be no need for charity anymore). Complaining
Snake continues insisting across the first two acts that every single bit of Worldbuilding exposition is in some way related to the Patriots, even as everyone he espouses this to starts treating him like an obsessed looney for it. The fact that he turns out to be right on every count does little to assuage this. Intended to be amusing
The whole scene with one-armed Raiden illogically deciding to hold a WARSHIP IN PLACE (so it wouldn't crush Snake) when he could have (considering his implied strength at this point) picked up Snake and taken him to safety. Fridge Logic; Rule of Drama
- Not to mention that the ship was going through concrete. No matter how powerful or durable Raiden's cyborg body is supposed to be, putting it between the ship and the dock wouldn't stop the ship from going forward. At best Raiden would be unharmed but the ground beneath his feet would keep getting destroyed. You don't need to know much anything about physics for this to realize that immediately. And this is if we ignore how fricking ridiculous the idea of anything man-sized being able to stop a damn tanker is in the first place. There are cool breaks from reality, then there're suspension-of-disbelief-shattering breaks from reality. Yours is made of steel if it didn't break into laughter at that point. Fridge Logic, Natter
Then there is the cutscene immediately preceding the final hand-to-hand battle between Old Snake and Ocelot: while the beginning of the cutscene and the interactive portion of the battle keep two geezers beating the crap out of each other outside the realm of Narm, it goes completely to hell once Snake collapses and has to use his syringe to get back on his feet. After some more fighting, Ocelot collapses and uses another syringe to get back up. After some more fighting, both men collapse and use their respective syringes at the same time. Then after some more fighting they collapse on each other and stab each other with the syringes. Yeah, don't try this at home, kids. What's this one even trying to say?
- While most of the fight choreography was pretty solid, there were two moments that make people giggle with insane glee. The first is a birds-eye-view of Liquid whaling on Snake. Too much emphasis, maybe? The second is a bizarre cross body block from Snake that suggests he graduated from the WWE school of CQC (which, predictably, Ocelot counters by... catching him). Seriously, what's funny about this?
- Seriousness dies when Ocelot kisses Snake for some reason in the middle of the fight while romantic music plays. It even gets you a trophy! From the way it's described, there's no way this was meant to be a serious moment
During the microwave scene, Snake's prominent buttocks glow. Invalidated by the sub-bullet below
- His entire Octo-Camo was glowing; the color was fleshlike enough to make it seem that Snake was in a bunch of leather straps.
- Speaking of the microwave hallway, that whole sequence was incredibly dramatic until the PIP screen cut to Sunny dancing in front of her stove because she finally cooked an egg on her own properly. Mood Whiplash
- "Is it a good idea to microwave this?" Pointless reference to another work
Snake describing the Outer Haven ship as a 'Death Star.' This is just a Shout-Out
Naomi's final speech. "We wished to free the captured foxes. To let them run free in the wild." Especially considering she's standing in front of birds. Not funny, just falls flat
Two words: Mount Snakemore. Since it was Octocamo-generated, Liquid must have specifically asked for the ship's systems to generate the likeness of his old self, his dad, his brother and the third Snake child they all forgot about. Wow. Lacks context and is pure snarking
Ocelot's English performance in this game can be ridiculous when yells "BROTHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!" It's a shame Cam Clarke couldn't return as Liquid, but dear god did Patric Zimmerman go beyond the call of duty to give players the ham they desired. Complaining
The epilogues. Dear lord. If the endless ramblings about zeros and hundreds and whatever didn't make that part impossible to take seriously, then the "Like a scene from The Beauty and the Beast" line definitely killed the next one. Complaining
The fight between Raiden and Vamp is intense and gripping. But think about it this way: Raiden and Vamp are in a swordfight that's causing Raiden to spray white bodily fluids everywhere. So... latex is funny somehow?
- Speaking of which, why is Vamp always licking his knives even when there's no blood on them? When Vamp first captures Raiden, he stabs him in the chest and licks the "white blood" off the blade. Snake, who's currently aiming a sniper rifle to try and shoot one of Raiden's restraints off of him, has to take a moment to pull away from the scope and raise an eyebrow at that one. Pointless natter
- Then there's Vamp, doing some kind of thing where he swivels his torso around and around even though it's doing nothing to keep the Geckos from hitting him. Too vague
And of course, it just gets more obscene with the unlockables on the New Game Plus, particularly the tuxedo and facecamo: You can watch Drebin talk to himself, watch Otacon sneak around like James Bond, and if you're good enough to get it, you can even see Snake replaced by the char-grilled corpse of Solidus. Meant to be amusing
"It's the FROGs!" Random quotes are not examples
- The fact that they are called FROGs is narmy itself. Ocelot doesn't seem to have a lot of faith in his elite, private army if he's going to name them after an animal that are known to get eaten by snakes. Not a moment. And yeah, that's the point
Brilliant though the RAY fight is, one of the special attacks is a bit... unusual. There's an animation where REX jumps on top of a grounded RAY, then leaps off, bombarding RAY with lasers. Metal Gear REX's laser cannon is situated between his thighs. One or both of them will probably be squealing while this is going on. Accidental Innuendo
Your iPod can cause severe Soundtrack Dissonance, such as, in the first level, playing what is essentially elevator music while people are being murdered by Gekkos. Player-induced moment
The final appearance of armless Raiden (carrying his sword in his teeth) is already a bit narmy, let alone how he only saved Snake because all of the FROGs dropped their guns to advance at an excruciatingly slow pace toward the almost totally paralyzed enemy with their machetes. But it gets worse when the duo pause to have a bromantic, sappy scene about how Raiden still has his youth and should let Snake go through the microwave hallway....and the two remaining FROGs were standing just out of shot the whole time, staring at them. Complaining, Fridge Logic
It's stated that whatever happened to the BB Corps have left them completely reliant on their Beast suits as sort of life support, and if they're left outside of the suits for more than a couple minutes, they will die. Sure enough, this is represented in-game - through the medium of any Beauty-form fight, after a few minutes, randomly teleporting the both of you to the VR backdrop used to test weapons in, whereupon the BB in question will drop everything to pose for you if you look at her through the in-game camera or even dance if you play certain songs on Snake's iPod. Easter Egg, meant to be amusing
Johnny during the Act 5 mission briefing. By this point it's already been established throughout the franchise that this Johnny is narm incarnate and even manages to bring out the narm in those around him, but attempting to cup Mei-Ling's buttocks with the subtlety of a boar in heat? It's not Narm if the character is supposed to be comic relief
The amount of throaty Say My Name moments, coughing, hacking and gurgling that Snake does in this is just plain silly. Its almost to the point when one wonders if the reason Kojima didn't get David Hayter back for MGSV was to spare his throat the damage. It affected poor David's Snake voice as far forward as Peace Walker too! General, complaining
In the scene where Ocelot ambushes Snake and Big Mama at the end of Act 3, she attempts to call out to him by rolling an apple towards him (in reference to their Adam and Eve codenames from a mission 50 years prior, nevermind that the apple motif was never touched on before now). His response is to pick it up and look at her like he changed his mind... only to dramatically crush the apple in his hand with a hilarious growl and drop it on the floor before going away. He wasn't even able to fully crush it, leaving most of it intact. Looks a bit complainy
- Big Mama effectively defines this trope for the third act because of all the forced biblical references she makes, apparently to make up for the lack of them outside her ending narration in MGS3, from the aforementioned apple popping up out of nowhere as she picks it up and declares it to "appropriately" be the "forbidden fruit", to her insistence that the van they keep Big Boss' brain-dead body in is his "pyx" or his "Holy Ark". Definitely complaining
The moment with Big Boss lamenting to Solid Snake over whether Zero hated him or not is immediately followed by Zero urinating/defecating into his wheelchair toilet. Deliberate; Mood Whiplash

Examples I kept

During Raging Raven's fight, once you manage to get her out of her robotic suit, she begins ranting a Madness Mantra. Then you get a prompt to press R1 (first person view during cutscene), and doing so at the moment she turns away from Snake causes the camera to zoom in on her butt, accidentally making the cutscene go from disturbing to hilarious.
After the mighty Moment of Awesome where Rex and Ray fight it out, there's a thoroughly ridiculous scene where Snake falls over and breaks his arm, leaving him to limp onward in an almost too-fast jerky manner while one-handing his rifle (which, naturally, he refuses to actually fire until Ocelot is well out of harm's way) with his other dangling uselessly behind him, as Ocelot runs off, giggling like a twit and occasionally turning around to point and laugh at Snake like a schoolyard bully. It's like a militarised Benny Hill routine.
When the time comes for Liquid Ocelot to demonstrate his "Guns of the Patriots" plan, his choice of executing it is by pretending his fingers are guns and shouting "bang" a whole bunch. Though this leads to his troops wasting the opposing armies, his mannerisms are too ridiculous to be taken seriously.
The fight when Raiden ends up with two Gekko strapping wires to his feet. He counters by breakdance-spin-kicking on his head upside down whilst spinning said Gekko around. The imagery is just plain ridiculous and so over the top anime that not laughing is impossible.
Snake's body doesn't ragdoll properly when he's knocked back by something, leading to his body rigidly falling to the floor. It's quite hilarious, actually.
Whenever you beat the BB Corps' Beast forms, you then have to deal with their Beauty forms trying to hug you to death. What propels this into narm is if you try to run away from them, you can literally see them powerwalking towards you with their arms outstretched for a hug, which is more ridiculous looking than it is scary.
When Laughing Octopus is massacring the rebels, she uses her face-camo to mimic Snake's face, though she retains her real voice and doesn't do anything to conceal her body. Many players though the otherwise horrific cutscene was hilarious thanks to the presence of Old Snake's head on the body of a young woman.

DoomTay Since: Oct, 2009

#1942: Oct 31st 2022 at 7:17:53 AM

A recent(ish?) addition to the Rings of Power YMMV page

Galadriel's sudden line "there is a tempest in me!" during his her dramatic clash with Queen Miriel is usually singled out as an offbeat chuckle-inducing remark, coming across closer to a child tantrum than to the intended Badass Boast.

What gets to me the most about this is a)child tantrum? Really? b)The edit reason said "plenty of sources if needed" and gave as an example...a You Tube video. And at a glances, the author of the video seemed to be one of those YouTubers

Edited by DoomTay on Oct 31st 2022 at 10:18:04 AM

katrinahood Since: Feb, 2013

#1943: Oct 31st 2022 at 9:21:31 AM

If the video came from one of those YouTubers, cut away.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014

#1944: Nov 1st 2022 at 1:12:59 AM

"offbeat chuckle-inducing remark" is not only an ugly attempt at phrasing, but also not what Narm is.

Narm is "attempt at drama that fails in such a specific way that it becomes unintentionally funny."

Galadriel using a line that's what...slightly corny, I guess? Is not Narm. Also, "flowery speech" is a Tolkien tradition. It's just more Galadriel bashing, shoe-horned into tropes like Narm to make it seem like a legitimate complaint.

You could argue in bad faith and make the same point about...Gandalf v. the Balrog.

Is Gandalf delivering a whole speech mentioning that he serves the "secret fire" Narm? It's never explained in the movies what the secret fire is. Or what it means when he calls the Balrog "flame of Udun". Is he referring to Udun the valley in Mordor, or the place also called Utumno, a fortress used by Melkor (also called Morgoth).

Again, it's not explained, so these attempts at badass boasts sound like cheap made up fantasy buzz words.

Edited by ArthurEld on Nov 1st 2022 at 11:36:26 AM

Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair

#1945: Nov 3rd 2022 at 2:23:47 PM

From Doctor Who S35 E9 "Sleep No More":

Narm:
- The Monster of the Week this time was literally created from eye boogers. This, along with the downright painful pseudo-science behind their creation, makes them near impossible to take seriously.

"The Monster of the Week is eye boogers" is Nightmare Retardant, "the science is bad" is Artistic License (probably biological), and general complaining. Cut.

Although the episode was ostensibly homaging found-footage horror movies, stylistically some scenes are very reminiscent of Peep Show, which uses the exact same POV concept and had its long-awaited ninth series premiere the same week this episode debuted. Nothing deflates the tension faster than expecting the POV camera to whip-pan over to Mark, Jez, and Super Hans.

Association narm and complaining. Cut. Edit: removed "bad indentation" from first cut reason, was unsure if it applied.

Edited by Altris on Nov 3rd 2022 at 3:02:03 AM

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]

She / Her

#1946: Nov 3rd 2022 at 2:53:38 PM

I agree with you on the first entry that Nightmare Retardant sounds more fitting. As for the second one, I agree it's complaining and I also feel it's misuse.

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014

No longer active.

#1947: Nov 3rd 2022 at 5:55:26 PM

Complaints that the monsters coming from eye boogers made them too silly to take seriously were common after the episode's airing, if memory serves, so there's a chance that it could apply for both tropes. Perhaps a less knee-jerk-sounding writeup would go like this:

Narm: The in-story explanation that the Sandmen were created from human rheum was widely mocked by fans after the episode's airing, with the concept of "eye booger monsters" being viewed as uncharacteristically silly and jarring with the otherwise serious, horror-driven tone of the story.

Be kind.

MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018

#1948: Nov 3rd 2022 at 8:46:55 PM

While that is a better writeup, it's still a general example that doesn't list a specific moment.

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love

Big Catch, Sparkle Edition

#1949: Nov 4th 2022 at 10:51:23 AM

Recently added to YMMV.New Amsterdam 2018:

Narm: The mourning scene for Roe v Wade being overturned comes off as melodramatic when you take into account the show takes place in New York which had no intention of using the decision to make abortion illegal in their state.

Uh... yeah. Thoughts? Also depending on how this election goes, that might not be so true anymore. Like... Scary times right now. I shouldn't have to be talking politics over a Narm entry, but here we are.

Edited by WarJay77 on Nov 4th 2022 at 1:52:32 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018

#1950: Nov 4th 2022 at 11:06:45 AM

It doesn't say what's funny and just uses the last bit to complain about Fridge Logic. Cut.

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