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While waiting for some more votes, here's some rough drafts.
Edited by AustinDR on Oct 19th 2018 at 11:48:55 AM
I think we can ALL agree that Crona from Soul Eater will always be an easy keep for this trope.
To all I've missed.
@Chase: I thought it was 7.
MLP lists nearly every sentient character that hasn't rejected redemption as a woobie. Some of the entries could be reduced to one and with new information, I think I could fix this page on my own.
Most of these should go to Iron Woobie except Spike (who is a child or young teen) and Fluttershy who despite getting more assertive tends to let out her feelings more.
I'd say merge all of these into one and keep for Woobie since they are children, or teens later on.
Merge all of these into one and we have a keeper for Iron Woobie.
Move all of these antagonists to Jerkass Woobie and merge the bullets. Aside from Sunset who is hardly the same pony (or human) she was before.
Compared to the other Princesses, Cadance can't really fight back. Keep but merge these into one.
Cut the Fridge Horror and this is fine staying in IW.
Move to Iron Woobie.
Supporting & Other Characters
I'd say move to Jerkass Woobie as despite Cranky being in the right, he is the epitome of a Grumpy Old Man.
Wow, I think we need to move this one to Woobie species.
Easy move to Iron Woobie as Soarin, is probably the only Wonderbolt besides Rainbow and Thunderlane who isn't a Jerkass be it unintentionally or not.
That's right! Weird Al voiced a pony. I'd say move to Iron Woobie as he hides the fact he's a Sad Clown.
Despite his large demeanor he really can't fight back. Keep.
I'd love to talk about each of these ponies individually but the only one we really know about is Sugar Belle as the others lose importance after S 05 E 02. Now Sugar Belle and Party Favor are woobies since they can't defend themselves but the others should be moved to Iron Woobie.
Keep for regular Woobies.
Easy keep for Woobies. Given Moondancer can't defend herself and her life was almost ruined by Twilight skipping out on her party, I'd say she's a keep.
He gets a move to Iron Woobie because Shining has been shown to be one of the strongest male unicorns and being that he's got a happy ending having married one of the sweetest ponies out there and being a Nice Guy, yeah...
Since he has a canon love interest now and can defend himself, he gets a move to Iron Woobie.
Move to Iron Woobie as Sunburst can defend himself.
Cut. This is Fridge Horror which does not belong here. It's also Fan Myopia given it's never confirmed if Dinky is related to Derpy.
I'd say move to Iron Woobie given Gallus doesn't reval this until much later, and he's able to defend himself.
Revised MLP woobie section. Rough draft, not complete.
So that's more or less what I want on pages with existing examples.
Edited by Klavice on Oct 19th 2018 at 11:54:46 AM
I've got this load from the Gundam Franchise, there may be more I've missed and this amount might be enough for a page:
Also found these on Gundam Seed Bloodlines:
Putting Gundam SEED The Long War to the chopping block for not providing context.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Oct 16th 2018 at 10:27:40 AM
Question: I can add examples here or not? Because there some works that have just so many woobies to list all of them. How we deal with those?
I'd say we start here.
You mean here.
Also you need to EP them.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Oct 17th 2018 at 2:19:57 AM
Well, I thought that with that, it'd be easier to list all of the mentioned articles using the trope with the related pages. From Happy Sugar Life:
Onto Yuuna, she's a more hard case. I guess I'll explain here:
Who is she?
Yuuna Kobe is the mother of Asahi and Shio. She was around sixteen-years-old when her life changed.
What is her predicament?
While walking home from school, Yuuna makes the mishap of accidentally bumping into her future husband. He doesn't take the mistake well. At all. After trying to push Yuuna to apologize, he takes her somewhere and rapes her. Afterwards, Yuuna becomes pregnant and is forced to marry the prick. Her husband's father did say that he would try to make everything work out for the two of them, but that wasn't really helpful whatsoever. Sometime later, Yuuna gives birth to Asahi, and her husband leaves for business. While everything appeared fine, she learns that there was an accident that resulted in the deaths of her parents. Coincidentally, her husband's father ends up kicking the dust as well, leaving his bastard son with some serious money. If you didn't think that he would get any more worse, he does. He leaves Yuuna and their son penniless only returning when he spent it all. The marriage only became worse when the domestic abuse reached its breaking point. There is also some indications that Yuuna's husband continued to rape her climaxing in her giving birth to Shio in a bathtub. This would lead to Asahi staying behind while she and Shio escaped.
During those years, Yuuna tried and failed to take care of herself and Shio due to having little to no formal education. She initially kept Shio locked in a subpar house mainly for her own protection, but she does eventually decide to allow Shio to go outside. Unfortunately, Shio is nearly ran over by a bus leading her mother to drop the hammer on her leaving the house again. This causes a small argument between the two, ending with Yuuna slapping Shio. Realizing that she was becoming her hated husband, Yuuna abandons Shio on the streets, which sets up to Shio meeting Satou.
The finale reveals that Yuuna had returned to her hated husband's household shortly after abandoning Shio and she secretly poisons his sake, leading to his demise. She is last seen looking at the hospital Shio was sent to following Satou's death.
While the anime adaptation leaves most of her backstory out, the manga version has Yuuna in one of the worst positions of any of the characters from the series (maybe aside from Taiyo who is probably more of a Jerkass Woobie). Yuuna had an entire life ahead for her, and because of one mistake, it collapsed like a house of cards. The manga deeply goes into how utterly broken she is because of her being married and how it was hard for her to even provide for herself due to her lack of an education and minimal job experience. Despite everything, it is apparent that she loves her children, but she ultimately abandons one because she feared that she was becoming her husband the further she tried to take care of Shio.
Is she a Jerkass Woobie?
Again, this is where it is more hard on my part. She does have moments of being mean or "cruel" from preventing Shio from going outside the house; to yelling at her; to slapping her and then leaving her to fend for herself. But in all fairness? These are only a few moments. While she would have these moments of being cruel to her daughter, it is made clear at the end of the day that she does care for her, but that she had been deeply broken by her marriage. While she could've left Shio at maybe an orphanage or whatnot, she ultimately was mentally unwell in that moment. At the end, it is made apparent that she felt remorse for her decision, not going into the hospital to see her because she felt that she didn't deserve it.
Can she defend herself?
No, not at all. She easily gets overpowered by her husband who mentally and physically abuses her. With her returning to her husband, she wasn't trying to defend herself then. Heck, she only manages to kill her husband when his back was turned.
A tough one, but to me, she comes off as a pure Woobie. As for the other characters...Satou. I don't really think she can be purely a Jerkass Woobie because she goes way too far to be truly sympathetic. Shio might be an Iron Woobie due to her insistence on staying with Satou. Taiyo...as I had said, maybe a Jerkass Woobie mainly because he doesn't commit any illegal actions. Shouko, may qualify, because she actually does have some pitiable traits such as being scared to speak for herself - and her death is as sad as it is painful to watch. Other than that, thoughts?
Edited by AustinDR on Oct 17th 2018 at 7:14:30 AM
Yes to all the examples so far.
Remember, a villain that crosses the MEH can still be a Woobie Destroyer of Worlds. So long as they aren't mass raping anyone, or someone like Light Yagami who had their death coming. It's more HOW they crossed the MEH and why. For example, someone like Palpatine wouldn't qualify. Basically think of any existing CM, they don't qualify.
I have to wonder, given the fact that Obito has subtle redeeming qualities including a sad backstory, could he be a WDOW? What about Madara Uchiha? My experience with Naruto goes to most of Shippuden and the original series.
Edited by Klavice on Oct 17th 2018 at 11:44:45 AM
@Klavice Is this also available to most category to all woobies. Also, will the cleanup be like ACW or 43110 when posting the writeup per batch?
I'm no master at grammar, hell, I hate commas. So it'll be as professional as I can, might need some help for the grammar and removing unneeded information.
Cool. Might be contacting Arivne for writeup and I think we have drafts for the Woobie that Joseph had create so I think its better to use that.
I slightly glanced at the first post and honestly I think a The Sociopath should be able to qualify as a Jerkass Woobie, let's say there's a villain who believes everything and everyone to be meaningless and thus sees everyone as little more than objects to manipulate, but the nihilism is portrayed sympathetically, as in they are haunted by their nihilism.
Yeah, I could agree somewhat on that notion. A few rare exceptions should be made, however.
So I'll do a brief rundown of the various Gundam characters that have been mentioned, since I'm familiar with most of them.
Whew. That's up through the Normal and Iron types, but this post is plenty long enough already, I'll have to go through the rest later.
BTW, there were a couple Gundam works on the Woobie Discussion Dates page, you could snag them if you wish.
If the scrappy trope isn't relevant to being a CM then maybe it shouldn't be relevant to a character's woobie status.
In fact, I do not think cutting a character should rely on Americans Hate Tingle either.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Oct 18th 2018 at 3:40:40 AM
This might sound odd, but would a sympathetic, wheelchair-bound antagonist be a Wheelchair Woobie, a Jerkass Woobie, or both?
It would depend on the context. Are there any examples you had in mind?
Alright, before going to be much more active in the cleanup. I'm going to look some examples that I write earlier before this cleanup thread existed and here are some of them. From the Visual Novel that I truly familiar with the most The Letter:
Isabella and Zach I think are easy keepers even if Isabella was an Iron Woobie at first. That and the Coma route doesn't help either. Zach got horribly discriminated which is a plot point for the film and Marianne? I think she qualifies just a little bit. Sure, she's an Iron Woobie at first but then you have the ghost who stalks her relentlessly and mentally tormenting her and having her as one of the characters to die in the true ending? That kind of pushes her over the edge for me. Also, Takako...I think she's an easy keeper. But my main issue is with her fusing the spirit with Charlotte. Although if you take the ghost out of context? She's definitely a woobie who got horribly mistreated by Charlotte so yeah...
Also, another example that I write from The Letter concerning Jerkass Woobie:
Yeah, Luke has a sad life in the past but the main issue is that he's a rather unpleasant and racist person in the present and he has a potential to become a murderer. The main issue? He's ended up becoming a broken person in the true ending and regretted killing Hannah. Also, the true ending portrays him as a person who have so many regrets that he sacrifices himself to the ghost. So yeah, I'm torn on Luke.
If you want to ask me? Do you want an extreme rewrite on them or just EP them proper?
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Oct 19th 2018 at 11:16:31 PM
I think Effort posting them should suffice. It would give us a more firm explanation.
The example I have in mind is Nessarose, from the Broadway version of Wicked. She's wheelchair bound and arguably pretty sympathetic (sick of depending on other people, deeply in love with a guy who doesn't actually care about her and only asked her out because the girl he actually liked told him to, honestly believed he only asked her out due to pity and was floored when he said 'no, its because you're beautiful')...but she's also a corrupt politician and a Yandere.
Effort post her.
Cut this from Dragalia Lost and notified the troper: The Prince. He literally loses everything in the end of the first chapter: his kingdom fell to an ancient empire thought to be lost, immediately branded a traitor by his father, loses his family and his sister Zethia is forced to go along with their father who is now possessed by a being known as The Other. Then Chapter 5 hits and [[spoiler: the Other's true target was was Zethia and by the time the Prince gets to them, the Other-possessed Zethia attempts to murder him in which the freed King Aurelius blocks at the cost of his own life. Even with another Zethia around, THAT Zethia could no longer exist due to her mana having been drained far too much and loses her remaining power to send the Prince and his allies back to the Halidom. The Prince's life really went to hell in the early going.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Oct 19th 2018 at 3:20:52 AM
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