Vindicated by History cleanup thread

I’d like to return the this entry to Super Mario 3D World:

• Vindicated by History: The game arrived at a time when fans were clamoring for a new sandbox 3D adventure akin to 64, Sunshine, and the first Galaxy; they felt that the newer game felt too similar to the presentation of the 2D New Super Mario Bros. games, and thus the game's reveal garnered it some backlash as not being a "true" 3D Mario in the vein of the previous titles (while Super Mario 3D Land showed similar characteristics, it being released on a handheld system and its novel 3D effects lessened the criticism). While it managed to win people over with later previews, being released on the failing Wii U console limited its reach. This was demonstrated on its opening week in the UK, where it was handily outsold by Knack, a dueling 3D platformer that doubled as a launch title for the PlayStation 4 that had less-than-stellar reviews; resulting in much mockery online. When it was re-released on the Switch after Super Mario Odyssey, which finally filled the void of sandbox gameplay and original worlds, fans were much more receptive towards what it did provide—a surprisingly inventive campaign that offered and played with plenty of new and old ideas in its level design, game mechanics, and characters; bolstered by the addition of four player cooperative play (a rarity for the 3D platformer genre). KingK's review gives a pretty good summary of this shift in perception.

It was removed by a troper because "The game received critical acclaim at launch and is the second best selling Wii U title. It doesn't qualify."

These points are both correct. The problem is that they ignored the fact that, while critics absolutely loved it, audiences and especially the core Mario fanbase (aka what the YMMV tab is for) either dismissed it or outright hated on it for being yet another "formulaic" and "linear" 3D Mario game. On top of that, the sales numbers are kind of irrelevant since it was released on the Wii U, which is infamously one of Nintendo's worst-selling systems, meaning that most gamers in general didn't even play it because most people didn't bother owning a Wii U. Mixed online discourse coupled with most people not playing it led to 3D World being written off as yet another byproduct of the "Bland Mario" era that plagued the 2010s.

Popular reception didn't start turning around until the fans finally got their long-awaited old-school 3D game in the form of Super Mario Odyssey, which caused opinions on 3D World to soften a bit. Then the game got an Updated Re Release for the Nintendo Switch, which is a console that actually sold well, thus allowing for more people to get their hands on it, play it for themselves, and grow to love it as a fantastic game in its own right.

So yeah, I think Vindicated by History is more than appropriate here.

Edited by Remnant43 on Feb 24th 2024 at 2:00:56 PM

I’d say add it, though on the subject I’d say we remove the entry on the page for New Super Mario Bros. U, if anything if I’d say the game has gotten MORE detractors with time

Maybe. I still like the game, but there’s no denying that the reception to Super Mario Bros. Wonder has caused people's opinions on NSMBU to sour.

RE: Mario 3D World, it's hard to measure fan reception (the only one I can think of is Metacritic, and Mario 3D World has been at an 8.9 since at least 2014) but it still probably counts under the same criteria as The Wind Waker, i.e. the fan backlash was notable enough at the time that a genuine turnaround later is big enough to count. With that said the Metacritic user score might complicate things, anyone else have further thoughts?

Should the nelvana dub of cardcaptor sakura be on the list because people are realizing that it was Kids WB and not Nelvana that screwed up the shows appeal.

That sounds more like a case of Misblamed: Has the actual quality of the dub been reassessed as better?

EDIT: Never mind, I checked and they turned out to be a sockpuppet.

Edited by harryhenry on Feb 25th 2024 at 5:43:42 AM

I’m gonna add the 3D World example now.

As for moving Mario U to popularity pendulum or whatever its call

Pokémon in VindicatedByHistory.Video Games. Does Pokemon really qualify here? It's currently the biggest media franchise (no exaggeration) and every mainline game has sold millions at minimum. They fit Contested Sequel or Popularity Polynomial better. Most of these are a misuse.

My opinions on them

• For years Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire (along with Emerald) were seen as the Audience-Alienating Era of the franchise, as it, by some counts, took out as many features as it added and had the misfortune of being a Soft Reboot for the series that followed the massively popular Pokémon Gold and Silver. It was constantly bashed both by longtime fans and fans who came back into the franchise with Pokémon Diamond and Pearl. As the series continued on, however, the games steadily amassed more and more praise, even garnering a hardcore fanbase, while Diamond and Pearl began to be seen as the lowest point of the franchise by about half the fandom. When the remakes for 3DS were announced, reception was almost universally positive.

This popularity cycle fits Popularity Polynomial better. Ruby and Sapphire's sales is over 16 millions which is not a failure by any definition. Should be removed

• Pokémon Diamond and Pearl: As with all things Pokémon, the Gen IV games, despite selling well, were the very definition of a Contested Sequel. Even though Platinum was better-received overall and improved the two biggest problems with Diamond/Pearl (limited Pokédex until postgame, slowdown due to Game Freak and Creatures Inc.'s inexperience with the engine), the quality of the games were still subject to fierce debate, with some feeling the games were flawed but still decent at worst (with Platinum singlehandedly vindicating the Sinnoh installments for this crowd) while others saw the Sinnoh era as a weak point of Pokémon — to the point where edits on This Very Wiki during its early days were often negative. Cynics even predicted that this would happen with Generation V... and sure enough, it did. People became quite excited for the remakes of Generation IV, as well as Pokémon Legends: Arceus.

Contested Sequel and Popularity Polynomial candidate. Diamond and Pearl's sales was 18 millions and their Metacritic scores 85/100. Later part has Natter. Should be removed

• Pokémon Black and White suffered a strong backlash from a sizable portion of fans, who criticized some of the new Pokémon designs and the fact that no Pokémon from previous generations were available until the post-game. They even undersold compared to the previous Gen IV games. For years, they were considered the worst games in the series, and suggesting they were anything except completely horrible was a good way to get ripped apart in online discussions. Fast-forward a few years, and they are now seen as some of the best, with fans praising the large amount of new Pokémon (many of whom have become fan favorites), the unique storyline that sees the credits rolling before you enter the Hall of Fame, the removal of Ability Required to Proceed for the main quest, and its lack of Pandering to the Base; specifically Gen I. Black and White (and its sequels) were also the last games to utilize sprite art, before the mainline games underwent its retroactively base-breaking Video Game 3D Leap. Finally, when Pokémon Sword and Shield cut down on the number of available Pokémon, the majority of returning Pokémon originated from Unova (even managing to outnumber the available Kanto Pokémon prior to the Crown Tundra DLC expansion), helping to endear them to fans even more.

Another Contested Sequel and Popularity Polynomial. Their sales was 15 millions and their scores 87/100. Also, Unovan Pokemon returning to SwSh have little to do with the work being vindicated

• Pokémon X and Y suffered some backlash who criticised the games as being too easy and handholdey, for pandering too hard to Kanto by giving the player a second starter, launching with a Game-Breaking Bug, requiring a secondary service to transfer the Pokémon you couldn't yet obtain, not having a sizeable postgame, and for being similar to the past Pokémon games. Years later, some people started to hold nostalgic fondness for it. Part of the reason being that the game had the largest Pokédex, with a total of 457 Pokémon available in the base game — and this was pre-National Dex. It was also praised for actually making adjustments to Pokémon outside of adding new types and gimmicks, something that Pokémon has very, very rarely done. The Fairy type was well-received, as was Mega Evolution, with a lot of Pokémon fans begging for its return in the next Pokémon game while lamenting its removal from Sword/Shield.

Yet another Contested Sequel and Popularity Polynomial. Sales: 16 millions, Scores: 87/100

• Some of the remakes had spotty initial reception that improved over time. Despite positive praise pre-release, post-release opinions around Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire changed a bit. Among these criticisms were how OR/AS did not incorporate content from Emerald, handed the player a Latios or Latias mid-game, used base-breaking features from the sixth generation of games (like the EXP Share), used Trainer Horde battles only twice in the entire game despite them being somewhat prominent in marketing, and choosing not to include the Battle Frontier. Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee! were controversial from day one for being a "gateway game" for players brought in by the success of Pokémon GO; retooling wild Pokémon battles to use the system introduced in Go; removing many gameplay features like Abilities that had been a part of the series for years; reimagining the storyline with a new main character and rival; and featuring a somewhat lacking postgame compared to other games. But after the Shot-for-Shot Remake of Pokémon Diamond and Pearl that removed all of Platinum's QOL changes, people started to appreciate what these games did do right — and that was provide a remake with additional content while still remaining rather true to the original, and thus polishing up a few features.

Contested Sequel and Popularity Polynomial. Sales: 14 millions, Scores 82/100

• Released for the Nintendo 64, Pokémon Snap saw limited popularity at its release for two reasons: it was a ridiculously short game even if you had little idea what you were doing, and it veered drasticially from the battling aspects of the main games, and fellow Spin-Off titles like Pokémon Stadium and Pokémon Trading Card Game. Fast-forward two decades, and the announcement of New Pokémon Snap was greeted with unanimous excitement from the fandom precisely because of how different it was.

This lacks a lot of explanation for how it was vindicated other than that a sequel was released. Its reception was not bad at all with 77/100 Metacritic score

• From the same generation, Pokémon Colosseum and Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness. Both games received mixed reception from both critics and fans on release, mostly for not being like the handheld games. But as complaints of It's the Same, Now It Sucks! became more prevalent within the series, the two games are now considered refreshingly different, especially the Shadow Pokémon mechanics. Older Pokémon fans also appreciate their increased difficulty compared to the handheld games, with smarter movesets on A.I. Trainers and tough boss fights, along with understanding the games' Darker and Edgier aspects that flew over their heads as kids.

This seems like a correct use, the Metacritic scores decreased between the games, 73 to 64, and it lists the differences between them and the mainline games and how they are better received now

• Pokémon Battle Revolution was panned by critics when it was released and sales were a disappointment, the game being criticized for its lack of content compared to the other Stadium games. However, the game's reception has risen in more recent years for having some of the most expressive animations out of any Pokémon game, especially compared to the 3DS titles. It's frequently favorably compared to Pokémon Sword and Shield in terms of animation quality, with people lamenting that a full-fledged home console Pokémon game has worse animations than a spin-off game from multiple generations ago did.

It reads like a backlash to SwSh than a reaction to Battle Revolution itself. It does have a poor Metacritic score with 53/100 but unsure if this should be kept

This is on YMMV.Kings Field:

• Vindicated by History: The runaway success of Demon's Souls and especially Dark Souls resulted in a surge of players outside Japan revisiting the games, resulting in a growing appreciation of the series as a strong foundation for the evolution of FromSoftware.

I think this is Retroactive Recognition, it doesn't say the game is considered better now, only that it got more attention.

Plus King's Field was never hated. Credits were mixed on it, but it sold well and lead to a few sequels too.

Resident Evil in VindicatedByHistory.Video Games. A lot of these are either defensive arguments on Contested Sequel, other YMMV, or plain successful games that ended up here.

My thoughts:

• The GameCube remake of RE1 did not sell as well as Capcom expected upon its release, becoming a major reason for the Resident Evil franchise moving in a more action-oriented direction from Resident Evil 4 onward. Critically, on the other hand, the REmake was absolutely adored and continually praised by fans for revamping, updating and graphically polishing the environment, the characters, the monsters and the gameplay, removing a lot of the cheesiness of the original and making the setting genuinely scary. Eventually Capcom remade RE2, RE3 and RE4, all three of which sold extremely well and cemented (alongside the Final Fantasy VII Remake) that video games remakes can be big, critically acclaimed cash cows.

This is an Acclaimed Flop, not a work being vindicated

• Resident Evil 3: Nemesis was a success but due to RE2 being a Tough Act to Follow, it still was greatly criticised for its smaller scope and having less content compared to its predecessor. Nevertheless, the game eventually became a fan favourite entry (especially among speedrunners), and Jill Valentine's status as a tube top-wearing Action Girl and Nemesis as a dreaded Implacable Man have become iconically synonymous with the whole franchise, to the point of being copied over into the second live-action Paul W.S. Anderson film. Fans would finally get the RE3 remake they had been clamouring for in 2020, one that was a success but, ironically enough, was bemoaned for its cut content compared to the already short original.

Where's Vindicated By History? This is just that the game was liked from beginning

• Resident Evil – Code: Veronica was released on the Sega Dreamcast, which had an aforementioned infamous reputation among other console owners. This by extension affected Code: Veronica's own reception despite it selling well on the console, with the game becoming something of a black sheep among the mainline Resident Evil titles. ^note Ironic considering CV was meant to be the direct sequel to RE2 before being swapped out for RE3 as we know it. By the time Capcom released Code: Veronica X on both the PS2 and Dreamcast, it was too late. Since then, players have come around to the game celebrating its European Gothic Horror aesthetic, the revamp of Wesker into a Smug Super Dragon Ascendant-turned-Big Bad, and being the only game with the Redfield siblings Chris and Claire starring together. Fans who were eager to see CV get the remake treatment were actually disappointed when Capcom announced they were remaking RE4 before Code: Veronica. Producer Yoshiaki Hirabayashi, however, did confirm that if the opportunity were occur they would remake CV, even if there are no concrete plans at the moment.

Wikipedia writes Dreamcast version outsold other major Dreamcast games and PS2 version outsold Resident Evil 4. This is misuse and gushing

• Resident Evil: Gun Survivor was generally forgotten and lambasted due to infinite pistol ammo, infinite inventory slots, terrible voice acting, and worse character design than the previous games. The shift to First-Person Shooter, however, was seen as being immersive and it was technically impressive that a late-generation PlayStation game could do a fully polygonal Resident Evil game. Since the mid-end 2010s, especially when Resident Evil 7: Biohazard returned to a first person perspective and featured a dark, desolate atmosphere that was similarly regarded as immersive. Its direct successor, Resident Evil Village, would even take cues from Gun Survivor's plot, such as experiments involving children and BOW soldiers.

Unsure. The first game got 39/100 on Metacritic and there do exist positive reassessment on recent discussions, but the game is still not talked about enough to investigate its fan reception

• Resident Evil: Outbreak generally received middling to poor reviews upon release due to subpar voice acting not matching the subtitles and janky, online-centric multiplayer game mechanics. ^note In addition, you had the classic fixed camera gameplay meshed together with some aspects of Code: Veronica. Outbreak is semi-fixed as the environments are largely polygonal and the camera can pan, but the delay between changing camera angles exist. In the years since, many fans revisited the Outbreak duology and found themselves better appreciating it when compared to later multiplayer efforts like Resident Evil: Operation Raccoon City, Umbrella Corps, and Resident Evil Resistance, regarding the games' focus on online co-op play as an ambitious undertaking held back by the technological limitations of the era. Outbreak's cast of mostly normal individuals are well-liked and fans were happy to hear them get referenced with a Easter Egg in the RE3make. Kevin in particular was included in the popular RE2 fan mod During the Storm.

Unsure. Like Survivor, it's hard to guage its reception now due to the game's obscurity. It has unnecessary fan mod shoutout

• Resident Evil 6 is infamous for creating what is perhaps the biggest Broken Base in the franchise. The bloated story, the downplay of horror over action, several main characters losing more than a few I.Q. points and getting an angst makeover while repeatedly holding the Conflict Ball, and the introduction of multiple Replacement Scrappies (Simmons for Wesker, Ustanak for Nemesis, and Helena for Claire) are chief among fan complaints. While its reputation is still mired in controversy and critics continue to point to questionable design choices, RE6 has slowly amassed a not-insignificant following, with defenders citing the character moments ^note Chris and Piers's bond, Leon and Chris fighting and meeting on screen for the first time, Sherry's revamp into a Action Girl and reunion with Leon and some of the more action-oriented mechanics ^note various evasive maneuvers, expanded melee without the need for button prompts, the Skills system as genuinely good, if not enjoyable at the very least. It is also thanks to RE6's Contested Sequel status that Capcom was inspired to return to the series' roots, leading to the creation of Resident Evil: Revelations 2, RE7, the remakes, and Resident Evil Village.

The last sentence can be summed up as "the series changed its direction because RE6 was divisive", which is not Vindicated By History. It had decent sales, 9 millions and 8th best selling in Capcom games. This is plain Contested Sequel

• Resident Evil 5 itself didn't have quite the reputation to repair compared to RE6 (being the best-selling RE game and best-selling Capcom game prior to Monster Hunter: World) but still caught a lot of flak for veering too far from survival horror compared to 4 and for having Artificial Stupidity from Sheva in single player. Over time, after 6 proved how much further the games could drift and with those who played 5 able to remember it fondly, the fifth game became its own thing with its unique mechanics ^note melee being based on body part struck by some other attack, each melee move being its own unique set of pros and cons, the slower pace of the gameplay compared to other action games and story that wrapped up most of the first half of the story. It also became a great game for speedrunning, likely in part due to the lack of major glitches, complicated input sequences, or game-spanning mistakes making it astonishingly accessible for a competitive and active speedrunning title. It also helps that 5 has some of the most beloved and iconic moments in the franchise, with a swan-song from Big Bad Albert Wesker (wonderfully voiced in English by D.C. Douglas) that won over players while overshadowing every antagonist after him, a certain scene involving Chris punching a boulder (which would become an Ascended Meme by Resident Evil Village), and chronologically being the last mainline game starring fan favourite Jill Valentine (still modelled after Julia Voth) before she was Put on a Bus.

Another Contested Sequel put into Vindicated By History, best seen in the comparison to RE6 and going "this game wasn't as bad as 6 in hindsight". Like 6, it had decent sales, 9 millions and 7th best selling in Capcom games

I will say that financial success doesn't always mean an example can be disqualified, like The Wind Waker sold very well and got great reviews, but the backlash against its "Celda" art style was great enough that its later appreciation is notable enough to count as vindication.

Ruling out financial success means there're one less criteria to judge if the example is valid and these writeup is not convincing. They read like typical misuse; someone trying to slip in a Contested Sequel after later games became more controversial. In particular, I do not buy the argument that RE5 and RE6 are vindicated. They were divisive back then and are still divisive now.

I left in Code Veronica because it had a special circumstance of releasing on dying console, although I still don't agree with it. I removed other mainline games. Their reception is just too far from failure, both financially and critically, to be in this.

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess has a YMMV entry for Vindicated by History:

• Vindicated by History: There was a time after this game came out where it became socially acceptable not only to like The Wind Waker, but to start comparing it to Twilight Princess favorably. Once Skyward Sword came out, suddenly the same happened to this game. Though there are still some controversial aspects about it (such as the Hijacked by Ganon scenario, the Slow-Paced Beginning, and the dated visuals), players have looked back on it as a good game because of the dungeons, the darker story, the new items and sword skills, a very popular sidekick, and (among timeline theorists) the subtle-yet-plentiful background nods to Ocarina of Time. Also, the HD remaster brightens it up, addressing the complaints about the original's Real Is Brown aesthetic. Ganondorf's inclusion in this game also began being looked upon more fondly, as his characterization in the mainline games as a cunning, Faux Affably Evil Manipulative Bastard has dwindled in favor of portraying him as the near-mindless beast that is Ganon, if he appears at all. When Tears of the Kingdom came out years later, elements such as tear-collecting, atmospheric dungeons, and Ganondorf himself all made their return and were all well-received, indicating how many fans have warmed up to Twilight Princess's design elements over time.

Twilight Princess was released to critical acclaim, was deemed game of the year by multiple publications, and had the highest sales of the series at the time, whose record wouldn't be broken until about a decade later. I have no idea what this entry is getting at that this game was significantly "vindicated by history", as it doesn't appear it was ever hated or even disliked beyond individual fandom squabbles over details they disagree with in a game that was otherwise seen as good. It's overall just very fan/opinion-myopic in tone.

I tried removing it on the basis that this was misuse, but someone immediately added it back in and DM'd me saying "don't remove entries on the basis that you disagree with someone's opinion," despite the fact reception being high throughout the game's history is extremely unambiguous. Permission to remove again?

Edited by number9robotic on Apr 9th 2024 at 6:31:32 AM

I agree that it doesn't count becuase it was never really hated, especially not when it came out. And even if it had, this entry in particular has the typical misuse of "This is vindicated becuase a later installment is worse." So yeah, I vote to cut it again.

It might’ve been re-added since the edit reason seemed complain-y, but I think you’re right. I have never heard of Twilight Princess being vindicated. The reasons why don't feel right either. Especially the reasons with how Ganondorf is portrayed, just seem to be complaining about Pig Ganon and how "under-utilized" the main Big Bad of the series is. Worth cutting.

Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Apr 9th 2024 at 9:02:05 AM

It sounds like it had the same problem as the Super Mario World example, where it uses a very small minority that wasn't even that vocal to make it seem more "underdog" than it actually is.

I wonder how many of these misused examples come from people with, for lack of better words, an "underdog complex", where they try to downplay their favorites' prior success to make its current reception sound more "epic".

The Legend of Zelda in general is treated with suspicion given that the series was almost always met with acclaim from critics and even audience, with the complaints often coming from vocal minority. The comparison to Skyward Sword, like ElBuenCuate said, is an indication of misuse.

Twilight Princess is even common on "Top X Video Games" lists so this needs really strong proof and discussion to justify it, and if they can't present it, it should be cut.

There is the phenomenon in the Zelda fandom called the "Zelda Cycle", which is a little complicated to explain but it's where a mainline release will be acclaimed by critics but divides the fandom due to its gameplay changes. Then the next game comes along, becomes just as divisive for its own changes, and the previous games are seen in a new, better light. Then the next game comes out, divides fans, and the game before it gains a new appreciation, and the cycle continues. The chart linked also alludes to Twilight Princess being "previously hated", which might push it into legitimacy.

With all that said, it's a very vague methodology and there's debate as to if it even exists. While I was a Nintendo fan around that time, I was more into Mario and didn't really pay attention to discussions around Zelda, only really knowing the most about the backlash/vindication surrounding The Wind Waker after it already came and went. So any words from people who were there in online discussions about Twilight Princess in the late 2000s would be much appreciated.

Sonic the Hedgehog in VindicatedByHistory.Video Games. My thoughts on the current examples:

• As much as it's widely pointed to by Genesis-era Sonic fans as the pinnacle of the hedgehog's career, it may surprise some that Sonic 3 & Knuckles wasn't quite on this pedestal at the time of its release — specifically, when the game was released as Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic & Knuckles. Compared to the runaway critical and commercial successes of the first two games, both titles only managed modest sales^note though a major reason for this was due to the first two games being bundled with the Sega Genesis shortly after their release, a benefit Sonic & Knuckles only received much later; and each title was also accused of being too similar to past games and not innovative enough by reviewers, especially when compared to the preceding Sonic 2 (though both titles still received mostly positive reviews). Not helping matters was Sonic 3 being very bug-ridden due to the game's rushed production and having the notorious "Barrel of Doom" puzzle, while Sonic & Knuckles following its release would be promptly overshadowed by the release of the highly-anticipated dueling game Donkey Kong Country for the SNES. It would take years before reviewers and fans began to re-assess the two games as the singular Sonic 3 & Knuckles through Sonic & Knuckles's "digital lock-on technology" and then discovered how much of a incredible refinement of the Sonic formula the game was — better gameplay and graphics, varied playable characters, larger and more balanced level design, and a more compelling story and presentation, among other enhancements. Nowadays, the game is rarely referred to its initial two parts, complaints about the games' lack of freshness are hardly even remembered, and the game is usually considered an Even Better Sequel to Sonic 2 (although the general public tends to recognize the first two titles far more).

Both Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles had critical acclaims, receiving lots of "9 out of 10" reviews. It did sell worse than Sonic 2, 3 and Knuckles selling 4 million compared to 2's 6 million, but this is pretty good sales for a late Sega Genesis game. The games are a Contested Sequel but it doesn't fit here

• When Sonic 3 & Knuckles was released on PC with the Sonic & Knuckles Collection, a handful of themes from Sonic 3 were changed — most notably, the themes of Carnival Night, IceCap, and Launch Base. Official reasoning at the time was because the Genesis versions of the songs were very sample-heavy, making it hard to adapt them to the MIDI format used in the PC version. Another likely reason is due to the involvement of Michael Jackson in the making of the soundtrack of Sonic 3, and Sega either lacking the rights to include the music in the PC collection, or lacking the rights to modify them to work in MIDI format. In any case, the new themes used to replace the ones removed were not very well received by fans at the time. Several years later, the discovery of a beta version of Sonic 3 from before the game was split into two parts revealed that the arrangements used in the PC collection were Older Than They Think: the PC collection songs had originally been composed for the Genesis version of Sonic 3 before Jackson's involvement. Following this revelation, reception of the PC collection's music improved a bit: while most fans argue that the Jackson-made Genesis themes are better (and their replacement with the prototype tracks in the Compilation Re-release Sonic Origins was met with some displeasure), it is now generally agreed that the PC collection themes are better than they were given credit for at the time.

• Sonic the Fighters, on its release, it was one of the most critically reviled spin-offs of the franchise due to its unbalanced cast, overly simple gameplay, and due to it being perceived as a poor Follow the Leader attempt to cash-in on the popular fighting game trend at the time. Even when it was re-released as part of Sonic Gems Collection, it was largely written off as a dated relic of the era that wasn't worth revisiting. As time has gone by, nostalgia for the game has greatly lessened its initially poor reception, and it is now considered a fun spin-off with unique characters and gameplay. While the game long struggled with a reputation for being a mindless button-masher, the Model2 Collection port's online lobbies would plant the seeds for a serious competitive scene, with a small grassroots community pushing the game to greater heights in The New '20s.

• Sonic Unleashed was subjected to mixed to negative reception back in 2008, with the "Non-Sonic" portions of the game being a strong point of contention, the Werehog in particular catching a ton of heat. The game was considered a 2000s "Dark Age" Sonic title, and was even among the de-listed Sonic games by Sega. A decade later, it isn't uncommon to find a lot more defenders towards Unleashed in particular citing the game's creativity, production values that many took for granted at the time, awesome graphics done by the Hedgehog Engine (that still look great even today, perhaps even better than some 2010s titles), the extremely varied but excellent soundtrack, and a plot that is generally considered very solid. The warming reception is likely what caused Sega to relist and reprint the game after it was delisted in 2010.

• Sonic Riders: The games were divisive at the time as they came out during what was widely considered to be the series' second Audience-Alienating Era (see here for more details). The third entry, Sonic Free Riders for the Xbox 360, ended up killing the sub-series with its mandatory Kinect controls. However, as time went on and especially after the release of Team Sonic Racing, the first two games began to get a lot more love, receiving praise for its unique concept of a racing game that didn't copy Mario Kart like Team Sonic Racing (and Sonic Drift before it) did. There was also praise for the first two games having guest characters from other Sega franchises as unlockables whereas Team Sonic Racing was criticized for cutting out the guest characters from the Sega Superstars games. Nowadays, you'll see a lot more fans placing Riders and its sequel Zero Gravity among the best Sonic games during the late 2000s, with several fans now wanting a HD port of the first two games with online or a fourth entry that combines all the positive aspects of the Riders trilogy.

• Speaking of, with the recent fan patch of Sonic Free Riders that removes the Kinect restriction and allows it to be played with a normal controller, fans are starting to really warm up to the game, going so far as to admit that — were it made with controllers in mind from the get-go — it would be just as enjoyable, if not more so, than the original and Zero Gravity.

Agreed. Sonic Unleashed has a cult following, but not enough to where it’s not seen as "the game with the Werehog". Sonic the Fighters does have a fanbase, but it’s still few and far between, and I know that Sonic Free Riders has a resurgence since you can actually play it now, but it would probably fit more as a Game Mod example.

I could see Unleashed getting an improved reception especially with it running better of XBOX Series X, and Riders I'd say the reception to the improved first game improved as early as Free Riders, though I feel Zero Gravity is still seen as mediocre overall

I feel Sonic Unleashed counts. The game had a very mixed reception when it first came out. While fans thought it was a lot better than Sonic 2006, that wasn't exactly a high bar and there was argument whether the Werehog parts just dragged the entire game down. Some professional critics gave it scores comparable (or sometimes, even worse) than 2006, and Sega even delisted the game alongside other below-average Sonic games in preparation for the release of Sonic Colors to help improve the franchise's reputation.

In the years since, a lot of fans view the game in a much more positive light. Fans a lot kinder to the Werehog parts (if still debating how well it was implemented to the game overall). The story has been praised in comparison to games that came before and after, managing to strike the right balance between taking itself seriously while also keeping a lighter tone. There's been a bit of a meme in the Sonic fandom that somebody saying "Does anyone else think Unleashed is underrated?" is no longer the hot take it once was.