While not attracting as much misuse as Condemned by History, Vindicated by History can still be misused in that:
1. It can be used to gush excessively about works that never made a splash and never really gained traction afterwards and otherwise over-exaggerate its achievements (like the Wii U entry, the ATT thread
I started about it inspiring me to start this thread)
2. It can be used to say "You know, this thing that was hated then and still hated today wasn't really that bad!"
3. It developed a small fanbase but not one big or influential enough that it redeemed the work in the public's eyes
5. Someone says "X is becoming this trope". That's not how it works. Either it was vindicated or it's not. If it's "becoming" this trope, wait until it does before adding.
6. It is confused with Popularity Polynomial
7. It violates the 5-year waiting period
Edited by supernintendo128 on Jul 23rd 2022 at 1:58:21 PM
RandomTroper123
She / Her
from I'll let you guess...
(Not-So-Newbie)
Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#252: Jun 1st 2023 at 6:39:16 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
(x5) I don't think the film is currently liked enough to count as Vindicated by History, from what I can pick up.
harryhenry
It's either real or it's a dream
Since: Jan, 2012
It's either real or it's a dream
#253: Jun 1st 2023 at 10:42:31 PM
Fantastic Four does have some more appreciation now, but certainly not enough to count as full-on vindication.
#254: Jun 2nd 2023 at 12:43:33 AM
I cut the main Vindication since it seems it's agreed that that the film hasn't been vindicated. I commented out the Reed example though, since I'm still unsure about it
#255: Jun 2nd 2023 at 3:22:17 AM
The Reed example also seems like a clear cut to me - in addition to what you and Mister-Apes-A-Lot said about how insofar as there's criticism of Krasinski's Reed it was for his writing rather than his portrayal (I've actually seen him praised, TBH), I've never really seen much evidence to suggest that Gruffudd's Reed was something people criticized about the 2000s films in the first place. He doesn't really "need" vindication.
#256: Jun 2nd 2023 at 10:09:06 PM
Went ahead and cut the Reed one too, as well as the 2005's listing on the film page. Speaking of the film page, there are a number of examples that I feel don't fit:
open/close all folders
90s movies
- While fans still agree The Karate Kid Part III is the worst of the original trilogy, Cobra Kai made them reevaluate it in a more positive light by showing the impact of the movie's events and bringing back villain Terry Silver while fleshing out his backstory.
again, this entry still says how the film is considered the worst of the original trilogy, and while Cobra Kai did expand upon the movie, the actual movie itself is still considered bad.
- Lethal Weapon 3 and 4. Whether people have a higher opinion of both movies is questionable, but both films look much better by comparison after the Die Hard films Live Free or Die Hard and especially A Good Day to Die Hard came out, and Weapon is considered to have maintained a more consistent level of quality versus that rivaling '80s/'90s action franchise.
Again, both Lethal Weapons 3 and 4 are still considered mediocre and inferior to the first 2. This is comparing it to a completely different series as well. (Live Free was also positively received, hell its Rotten Tomato scores for both critics and audience are equal or higher than ALL Lethal Weapon movies)
- Mortal Kombat: The Movie while successful enough to warrant a sequel and often considered the best movie adaptation of a video game, still got a divisive reputation from audiences. While many fans appreciated how it mostly stayed true to the plot of the game it was adapting, the performances of the cast (especially Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa and Christopher Lambert as Shang Tsung and Raiden), the fight choreography not getting chopped up, the tight story and the special effects - particularly the animatronic Goro - there were also fans of the games who bemoaned the PG rating which didn’t allow for the blood and gore of the games and for turning fan favorites ninjas Scorpion and Sub-Zero into minor henchmen whilst other people criticized the martial arts and the cheesiness of the plot. The sequel did nothing to help matters with its near-complete overhaul of the cast, Random Events Plot, Narm-laden dialoguenote , loads of characters that pretty much contributed nothing to the plot, and the Fight Scene and Special Effects Failure all over the place. Yet the decades afterwards had so many borderline unwatchable game movies that Mortal Kombat managed to at least stand with a good reputation for being competently made and faithful, to the point the game series incorporated elements like Kano being Australian and a skin pack in Mortal Kombat 11 that gave the film likenesses and voices to four characters. And when a new movie came out in Mortal Kombat (2021), it changed so many things (like the protagonist being a Canon Foreigner and not having the Mortal Kombat tournament) that numerous people unironically now cite the 1995 film as the better adaptation.
First of all, this is quite a Wall of Text here. This entry feels like its trying to bash the newer movie (and Annihilation too) by claiming it is bad for changing many things, despite the fact that the entry also mentions the 95 movie changed many things. The 95 movie was also a success when it came out, meaning it was liked back then. Lastly, on RT and IMDB the 2021 movie still has higher scores than the 95 one, so even if this wasn't "new thing bad so old thing good", it still wouldn't be vindication since the newer movie received better reception.
- When the 1994 Street Fighter movie came out, it was initially pretty widely disliked and considered a shining example of Video Game Movies Suck, though even then it did have a small following due to its campy nature. However, as time went on, its camp and the passing of Raúl Juliá would make it relatively fondly remembered. Cementing this is the release of the next Street Fighter movie, Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li which was universally reviled and almost every Street Fighter fan agrees that, for all its flaws, the first film was better.
another example of "newer thing bad so older bad thing good", the 94 Street Fighter movie is still considered to be a bad movie (apart from Raul Julia), to the point where it is So Bad, It's Good.
00s movies
- The 2002 made-for-TV adaptation of Carrie was panned viciously when it first came out for being seen as a pale shadow of the 1976 film, to the degree that lead actress Angela Bettis herself said she wouldn't have seen it if she hadn't been in it. As time has moved on, younger fans and fans of the book have come to like this as a more faithful adaptation (the ending aside; it was intended as a TV pilot). While few will defend the special effects, some of the casting choices (Rena Sofer as Miss Desjardin, Kandyse McClure as Sue) are seen by some as better than the original, and while Bettis' performance is not usually counted among them, that's mainly because she had a very Tough Act to Follow in Sissy Spacek (who was nominated for an Oscar), as she is still considered to have made for a very strong Carrie who many fans feel was on par with Spacek. When the 2013 adaptation came out and got criticism for being too similar to the 1976 version, this one got a second look due to the ways in which it played around with a few of the characters.
again, looking at more recent reviews to this movie, a lot of it is still negative. Another example of "newer thing bad so older bad thing good" with the comparison to the 2013 movie (and again, the 2013 movie has better scores than the 2002 one on review sites).
- Resident Evil (2002) was divisive for not being a direct adaptation of the games. Years later, fans can admit that the film was better than it was given credit for, featuring some sweet action scenes, a cast of likable characters, including protagonist Alice, and its looser connection to the games means it works fine as a stand-alone story that doesn't mess with the franchise's main canon. Also helping is the decreasing quality of the sequels, which also made Alice much more divisive by making her an Invincible Heroine who steals the spotlight of the game characters.
I feel like this movie is still considered divisive in the fandom
- Van Helsing was considered a bad movie of 2004 but after the release of The Mummy (2017), many looked at the film as a better modern portrayal of classic Universal movie monsters.
"newer thing bad so older bad thing good"
- Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines and Terminator Salvation were and are Contested Sequels deemed as not living up to the beloved first two movies. Yet both earned reappraisals with the further sequels Terminator Genisys and Terminator: Dark Fate, for actually trying to further John Connor's story instead of changing it too hard (Genisys has him become a villain through Unwilling Roboticization, Dark Fate kills him in the opening scene), not delving too deep into the Timey-Wimey Ball, and in the case of Salvation being different enough to stand out (it's the only one focused on the Robot War rather than time-travelling).
Another "newer thing bad so older bad thing good", also feels bashy towards the later sequels
- Director Shusuke Kaneko's two-part film adaptation of Death Note received So Okay, It's Average reception within fans and critics alike (at least within North America): as film adaptations of manga series, they were decent at best and has an improved ending, but the special effects didn't age well. They came out in middle of a time period where Japan's film industry was slowly in decline (starting with the critical failure of 2004's Devilman movie), and people stopped having much expectation toward live-action movies based on manga series. However, shortly after the release of Netflix's American adaptation of Death Note, fans enthusiastically put the Japanese live-action movies onto the high pedestal. Not only they consider these as the superior adaptation, but also among the best live-action adaptations of comic books or manga series in the past few decades. It also helps that for those who are more closer to the Death Note anime dub, the voice actors from the anime dub reprise their roles in this film series' English dub.
Another "newer thing bad so older bad thing good", although not even in this case since these 2 movies received decent reviews upon release, so they weren't exactly vindicated
- Neither remake of Black Christmas (1974) are considered to be superior to the original, but since the release of Black Christmas (2019) fans have become more accepting of the initially panned and bombed Black Christmas (2006), mainly due to its Gorn and Camp appeal, the revelation that it was subject to heavy Executive Meddling, and actually trying to remake the original instead of being derailed into a borderline misandrist Author Tract.
Another "newer thing bad so older bad thing good", also feels bashy towards the 2019 movie
- Minor example but X-Men: The Last Stand was understandably reviled back in the day for its poor treatment of major characters and unnecessarily mashing The Dark Phoenix Saga with the Mutant cure storyline. Yet thanks to the release and commercial and critical bombing of X-Men: Dark Phoenix which was a meant to be a more accurate adaptation, fans have let X3 off the hook since it ironically was more critically successful than Dark Phoenix. It also helps the film introduced the excellently cast Kelsey Grammer’s Beast and Famke Janssen’s take on Jean’s Superpowered Evil Side was effectively creepy, therefore Truer to the Text than Sophie Turner’s version.
- X-Men Origins: Wolverine just like X-Men: The Last Stand for a long time was considered one of the worst X-Men movies ever and granted it's not going to be on anyone's favorite X-Men movie list anytime soon. However the abysmal reception of Dark Phoenix lead to people liking this movie more if only because it's entertainment value makes it more enjoyable to watch than the humorless and disjointed tone of the latter. It also helps that the worst aspects of this movie's plot (namely the In Name Only depiction of Deadpool) has been retconned out of continuity thanks to X-Men: Days of Future Past thereby making this a simple yet fun standalone action flick.
'''Neither of these films have been vindicated, a lot of people online still make fun of them. Yet another "newer thing bad so older bad thing good" - Minor example but X-Men: The Last Stand was understandably reviled back in the day for its poor treatment of major characters and unnecessarily mashing The Dark Phoenix Saga with the Mutant cure storyline. Yet thanks to the release and commercial and critical bombing of X-Men: Dark Phoenix which was a meant to be a more accurate adaptation, fans have let X3 off the hook since it ironically was more
MisterApes-a-lot
Since: Mar, 2018
#257: Jun 19th 2023 at 7:30:28 PM
This entry on YMMV.Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom:
- Vindicated by History: The Temple of Doom was widely regarded as the weakest of the Indiana Jones movies, with much of the criticism being its lack of connection to its predecessor and a much darker and cynical story and tone. As time went on, no part thanks to the highly controversial fourth film, it's not uncommon to find more people who love the film for those same reasons and appreciate the change in status quo and not doing a rehash of Raiders. Nowadays, it's often seen as on par with the first and third movies, sometimes even better than the other two.
Seems to be classic "worse installment comes out, so bad installment is seen as better" misuse. Also, I have yet to see any discussion where people say Temple is better than the other two films in the original trilogy, so that just seems inaccurate. Cut?
ArthurEld
Since: May, 2014
#258: Jun 19th 2023 at 8:13:27 PM
Temple of Doom didn't enjoy a great reception, but i don't think it was ever hated enough to qualify. It actually won an Oscar and was nominated for another, and it's theatrical run made hundreds of millions of dollars.
Where it ranks in the grand scheme of Indiana Jones movies may vary, but it was never something hated that has now become great.
CompletelyNormalGuy
Am I a weirdo?
from that rainy city where they throw fish
(Oldest One in the Book)
Am I a weirdo?
#259: Jun 19th 2023 at 9:28:56 PM
Cut Temple of Doom. It's just stealth complaining about Crystal Skull.
Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.
No longer active.
#260: Jun 20th 2023 at 3:37:30 PM
This runs into the same problem as the Temple of Doom example I feel, and from what I can gather, DS is still a middlingly received installment, with most people considering it disjointed and directionless compared to the original. Good to cut, or has DS actually been reappraised for the better? Be kind.
On a similar note, YMMV.Yoshis Island DS has this:
- Vindicated by History: The game was originally very divisive among fans of the original game for its level design and its perceived unnecessary additions to gameplay. With the release of Yoshi's New Island, several of those fans have looked back at this game in a much more positive light for its various attempts at expanding from the original.
This runs into the same problem as the Temple of Doom example I feel, and from what I can gather, DS is still a middlingly received installment, with most people considering it disjointed and directionless compared to the original. Good to cut, or has DS actually been reappraised for the better? Be kind.
dms3456
Since: Oct, 2021
#261: Jul 2nd 2023 at 2:40:57 AM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
Karxrida
The Unknown
from Eureka, the Forbidden Land
Since: May, 2012
Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
The Unknown
#262: Jul 2nd 2023 at 3:20:49 AM
x2 Last I checked people had some newfound appreciation for its ideas, but the game is still seen as a bit of a mess and So Okay, It's Average at best.
#263: Jul 2nd 2023 at 3:35:09 AM
: Yeah that entry sounds like "newer entry bad so older entry good". I find that Vindicated entries are filled with this type of misuse. Also, it's not a vindicated since DS received positive scores on Metacritic, meaning that it was already well recieved beforehand.
No longer active.
#264: Jul 2nd 2023 at 10:00:21 AM
Alright, removed it and cited this thread.
Be kind.
Karxrida
The Unknown
from Eureka, the Forbidden Land
Since: May, 2012
Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
The Unknown
#265: Jul 3rd 2023 at 11:57:08 PM
From YMMV.Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney Justice For All:
- Vindicated by History:
- For a long time this was (aside from the final case and even that has its share of detractors) seen as the worst game in the whole Ace Attorney franchise, for lacking the tight storyline of the first or third games, or the novelty factor of Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney or the first Ace Attorney Investigations game. Since then, opinions toward it have warmed considerably, to the point where it's actually now considered one of the better games in the series — the other two entries in the original trilogy are probably the only ones universally regarded as being superior — only really let down by a poor third case and Franziska being a rather one-note adversary. The lack of an overarching storyline is also considered much less of a problem than it once was, allowing for the game to focus on developing the main characters, and standing in contrast to the 3DS-era games, which are commonly accused of falling victim to Arc Fatigue. Even the game's Sequel Difficulty Spike is looked on more favorably when compared to some of the newer entries, which have been criticized for being too easy.
- The game's English localisation was initially compared unfavorably to that of the first, with Capcom being accused of cheaping out by giving the job to Janet Hsu (then a Capcom USA employee whose only prior translation work had been on a couple of the Mega Man Battle Network games) rather than the first game's Alexander O. Smith (an industry veteran with many high-profile games under his belt) as well as the resulting translation being obviously rough around the edges and seen as overly literal in places. Nowadays, and especially with subsequent re-releases that cleared up the errors made in the original DS release, the localisation is seen as Truer to the Text of the Japanese original, as well as lacking the overly flippant writing and heavy-handed pop culture references of the first game's translation, both of which are widely agreed by fans to have aged poorly.
I'm not sure the first point is entirely true. The third case is still seen as one of the worst in the franchise and people continue to complain about the overtuned difficulty. Its placement as "weakest of the originals" hasn't really changed. To take from my own personal experience playing the trilogy a couple years ago, this was the only entry where I was glued to a walkthrough the entire time because it was confusing and unnecessarily hard.
I'm not sure about the second point, either. From my understanding the original localization's main issue was stuff like typos, which did get fixed in later releases.
Edited by Karxrida on Jul 4th 2023 at 12:06:06 PM
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Ferot_Dreadnaught
Since: Mar, 2015
#266: Jul 12th 2023 at 7:32:23 PM
VindicatedByHistory.Video Games
Pokemon
- Released for the Nintendo 64, Pokémon Snap saw limited popularity at its release for two reasons: it was a ridiculously short game even if you had little idea what you were doing, and it veered drasticially from the battling aspects of the main games, and fellow Spin-Off titles like Pokémon Stadium and Pokémon Trading Card Game. Fast-forward two decades, and the announcement of New Pokémon Snap was greeted with unanimous excitement from the fandom precisely because of how different it was.
- For years Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire (along with Emerald) were seen as the Audience-Alienating Era of the franchise, as it, by some counts, took out as many features as it added and had the misfortune of being a Soft Reboot for the series that followed the massively popular Pokémon Gold and Silver. It was constantly bashed both by longtime fans and fans who came back into the franchise with Pokémon Diamond and Pearl. As the series continued on, however, the games steadily amassed more and more praise, even garnering a hardcore fanbase, while Diamond and Pearl began to be seen as the lowest point of the franchise by about half the fandom. When the remakes for 3DS were announced, reception was almost universally positive.
- From the same generation, Pokémon Colosseum and Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness. Both games received mixed reception from both critics and fans on release, mostly for not being like the handheld games. But as complaints of It's the Same, Now It Sucks! became more prevalent within the series, the two games are now considered refreshingly different, especially the Shadow Pokémon mechanics. Older Pokémon fans also appreciate their increased difficulty compared to the handheld games, with smarter movesets on A.I. Trainers and tough boss fights, along with understanding the games' Darker and Edgier aspects that flew over their heads as kids.
- Pokémon Battle Revolution was panned by critics when it was released and sales were a disappointment, the game was criticized for its lack of content compared to the other Stadium games. However, as of recently, the game has become slightly more beloved for having some of the most expressive animations out of any Pokémon game, especially compared to the 3DS titles. It's frequently favorably compared to Pokémon Sword and Shield in terms of animation quality, with people lamenting that a full-fledged home console Pokémon game has worse animations than a spinoff game from multiple generations ago did.
- Pokémon Diamond and Pearl: As with all things Pokémon, the Gen IV games, despite selling well, were the very definition of a Contested Sequel. Even though Platinum was better-received overall and improved the two biggest problems with Diamond/Pearl (limited Pokédex until postgame, slowdown due to Game Freak and Creatures Inc.'s inexperience with the engine), the quality of the games were still subject to fierce debate, with some feeling the games were flawed but still decent at worst (with Platinum singlehandedly vindicating the Sinnoh installments for this crowd) while others saw the Sinnoh era as a weak point of Pokémon — to the point where edits on This Very Wiki during its early days were often negative. Cynics even predicted that this would happen with Generation V... and sure enough, it did. People became quite excited for the remakes of Generation IV, as well as Pokémon Legends: Arceus.
- Pokémon Black and White suffered a strong backlash from a sizable portion of fans, who criticized some of the new Pokémon designs and the fact that no Pokémon from previous generations were available until the post-game. They even undersold compared to the previous Gen IV games. For years, they were considered the worst games in the series, and suggesting tyhey were anything except completely horrible was a good way to get ripped apart in online discussions. Fast-forward a few years, and they are now seen as some of the best, with fans praising the large amount of new Pokémon (many of whom have become fan favorites), the unique storyline that sees the credits rolling before you enter the Hall of Fame, the removal of Ability Required to Proceed for the main quest, and its lack of Pandering to the Base; specifically Gen I. Black and White (and its sequels) were also the last games to utilize sprite art, before the mainline games underwent its retroactively base-breaking Video Game 3D Leap. Finally, when Pokémon Sword and Shield cut down on the number of available Pokémon, the majority of returning Pokémon originated from Unova (even managing to outnumber the available Kanto Pokémon prior to the Crown Tundra DLC expansion), helping to endear them to fans even more.
- Pokémon X and Y suffered some backlash who criticised the games as being too easy and handholdey, for pandering too hard to Kanto by giving the player a second starter, launching with a Game-Breaking Bug, requiring a secondary service to transfer the Pokémon you couldn't yet obtain, not having a sizeable postgame, and for being similar to the past Pokémon games. Years later, some people started to hold nostalgic fondness for it. Part of the reason being that the game had the largest Pokédex, with a total of 457 Pokémon available in the base game — and this was pre-National Dex. It was also praised for actually making adjustments to Pokémon outside of adding new types and gimmicks, something that Pokémon has very, very rarely done. The Fairy type was well-received, as was Mega Evolution, with a lot of Pokémon fans begging for its return in the next Pokémon game while lamenting its removal from Sword/Shield.
- Some of the remakes had spotty intial reception that improved over time. Despite positive praise pre-release, post-release opinions around Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire changed a bit. Among these criticisms were how OR/AS did not incorporate content from Emerald, handed the player a Latios or Latias mid-game, used base-breaking features from the sixth generation of games (like the EXP Share), Trainer Horde battles only appearing twice despite being somewhat prominent in marketing, and the removal of the Battle Frontier. Pokémon Let's Go, Pikachu! and Let's Go, Eevee! were controversial from day one for being a "gateway game" for players brought in by the success of Pokémon GO, retooling wild Pokémon battles to use the system introduced in Go, reimagining the storyline with a new main character and rival, and featuring a somewhat lacking postgame compared to other games. But after the Shot-for-Shot Remake of Pokémon Diamond and Pearl that removed all of Platinum's QOL changes, people started to appreciate what these games did do right — and that was provide a remake with additional content while still remaining rather true to the original, and thus polishing up a few features.
The mainline games, save maybe the original Ruby and Sapphire, I believe are all misuse as they were still quite successful and were popular at release (especially DP and BW), Popularity Polynomial seeming the better fit. The others were Cult Classics that were praised by those who tried them at the time so also misuse?
#267: Sep 9th 2023 at 12:01:39 AM
Joe Scruggs has this:
- Vindicated by History: His music made a resurgence in the late 2010s, due to many people being familiar with his appearance on the Barney & Friends episode, "The Exercise Circus!"
I don't think this is an example as it doesn't show how he's been vindicated, since it doesn't say how his music was once hated.
ArthurEld
Since: May, 2014
#268: Sep 9th 2023 at 8:11:31 PM
Yeah, definitely cut. Scruggs' music is and was acclaimed.
Edited by ArthurEld on Sep 9th 2023 at 8:11:40 AM
SharkToast
Since: Mar, 2013
#269: Oct 22nd 2023 at 5:52:41 PM
- Vindicated by History: Was very popular in its day but tended to kind of fall by the cultural wayside after its cancellation, mainly just existing as a trivia question of "What was the World's Most Famous Popstar near the end of the 2010's best known role before hitting it big as a singer?". Although it still hasn't been that long since Victorious aired, enough time seems to have passed for nostalgic re-examinations to happen. And by the end of the decade a combination of Ariana Grande's becoming one of the most famous singers alive, Nickelodeon's Kid Coms not living up to snub, and the Periphery Demographic getting older led many to come back and discover the show was actually much funnier and higher quality than they remember. Nowadays it's upheld as one of Dan Schnieder's best works and his last truly great work. Many elements of the show are even more awesome in hindsight, like Tori and Jade's duet "Take a Hint." Especially post-#MeToo, people appreciate that the song is about consent and casual sexual harrasment.
First off, the entry begins by acknowledging that the show was very popular. Doesn't that disqualify it as being Vindicated by History. Second, the ending seems like it's trying to be a Values Resonance entry, even though the show isn't twenty years old yet.
He/Him
#270: Oct 22nd 2023 at 6:04:56 PM
I think the first part can be re-written as
"The show, while popular during its run, wasn't exactly seen as one of Schneider's best works with most seeing it as a fairly generic and uninspired sitcom that many critics believe wasted its talented cast."
The rest can probably continue as critical evaluation of the show, disregarding the off-putting Schneider fetishes/ominous foreshadowing, has definitely improved over time.
Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Oct 22nd 2023 at 1:05:46 PM
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
Remulus
(Troper in training)
#271: Oct 23rd 2023 at 1:08:54 PM
I would argue this counts more as Popularity Polynomial than VBH tbh
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
#272: Oct 23rd 2023 at 1:53:02 PM
So I found this on YMMV.Man Of Steel:
- Vindicated by History: After premiering to a polarized reception, attitudes towards Man of Steel have softened considerably over the years for its willingness to take liberties with the source material, portrayal of the main character, Worldbuilding, action scenes, visual effects and relatively self-contained story. With the release of Zack Snyder's Justice League, people are willing to acknowledge that these two movies, along with the Ultimate Edition of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, make up a believable trilogy that portrays Superman's journey from Classical Anti-Hero to The Cape he is traditionally known as.
And this on YMMV.Batman V Superman Dawn Of Justice:
- Vindicated by History: While still divisive, the release of Zack Snyder's Justice League has put this film in a better light as part of a trilogy, giving Superman and Batman a proper arc with payoff and making the gloomy atmosphere more tolerable as it is building up to a lighter finale.
I mean I haven't seen much new found appreciation for either film. Though I could be wrong.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Remulus
(Troper in training)
#273: Oct 23rd 2023 at 2:08:07 PM
Those entries have already been discussed some pages ago and it was agreed that they fit. There's critical consensus a la Empire Strikes Back/Return of the Jedi that the grittiness of the previous two installments was intended to cap off with the rise of Superman as the ideal hero.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
#274: Oct 23rd 2023 at 2:42:43 PM
I did not know that they were discussed. I am sorry for bringing up something already settled.
Edited by Bullman on Oct 23rd 2023 at 4:42:58 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
miraculous
Goku Black
(Apprentice)
Goku Black
#275: Oct 23rd 2023 at 2:46:19 PM
Legitimate question.
Do they ? I can see man of steel since the flack for the film has decreased. But B v S is still usually held as what sent the dceu into a spiral which killed it.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Total posts: 361
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Kill it with fire.
pee pee poo poo