Opening.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanAs I have expressed here, I think broadening the trope to include other themes in the soundtrack like a love theme or a character's Leitmotif is a good ideanote . I think it's a very similar concept that isn't worth splitting.
Non-diegetic examples should be cut as misuse.
Edited by Synchronicity on Aug 13th 2020 at 3:00:39 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
For a new name, how about Soundtrack Song Cameo or Diegetic Soundtrack Usage?
Edited by jandn2014 on Aug 13th 2020 at 4:47:05 AM
back lol"Diegetic" is the correct spelling. Or were you just agreeing with my name suggestion?
Edited by jandn2014 on Aug 13th 2020 at 6:11:52 AM
back lolAgree that broadening the trope sounds like a better idea since I don't see why it should be restricted to just theme tunes, if using other music is used more or less the same way. As for names, kinda leaning towards Diegetic Soundtrack Usage from the suggestions since that makes the "diegetic" part of it clear.
As for doing this with music from other works, I'm assuming that's not this trope?
Edited by Zanreo on Aug 13th 2020 at 5:19:23 PM
"Leftover items still have value!"I strongly prefer Diegetic Soundtrack Usage over Soundtrack Song Cameo, since the use of the word "diegetic" makes it much less ambiguous that the music has to be playing in-universe in addition to the audience hearing it, with any ambiguities being cleared up by looking up the concept of diegetic sound.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 14th 2020 at 10:35:56 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Agreed on making it diegetic.
I'd like to apologize for all this.Expand to include other songs in the work's soundtrack and rename Diegetic Soundtrack Usage.
We should fire a crowner with those options, then.
- Rename the trope
- Expand definition to allow non-Theme Tune examples
- Redefine trope to only allow diegetic examples
- Do nothing
...or is consensus clear enough?
I'd like to apologize for all this.Pretty sure everyone here has voted for "expand" and a lot of people added "rename" on top of that. IDK if we're at consensus point, but...
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure PurenessPretty sure it is already meant to only be diegetic, and the non-diegetic examples are misuse
"Leftover items still have value!"Should we make a new trope for non-diegetic examples?
Something like Title Theme Drop only for all of the work's music?
"Leftover items still have value!"Yeah, I believe the non-diegetic version (eg. anime OP plays in the background during the final battle) is actually Title Theme Drop. It is also restricted to title themes for now.
Plus, regular background music playing in the background at a certain moment is just, well, background music, so not sure that needs to be a separate trope? Maybe a remixed version of the usual music used for special moments could work though
"Leftover items still have value!"Can non-diegetic misuse go to Title Theme Drop, since Theme Tune Cameo is already supposed to be purely diegetic?
Anyway, regarding the crowner proposal, bullet point three isn't needed since this is already supposed to be diegetic, and the "Do nothing" option could probably be omitted based on this mod post from Septimus in the appearance trope cleanup thread.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 17th 2020 at 12:45:56 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Gotcha, so only the first two points. Do I create the crowner, or do I wait?
Edited by FernandoLemon on Aug 17th 2020 at 3:53:52 PM
I'd like to apologize for all this.The thread has been open long enough for one to be made, per the Three-Day Rule.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.Here it is, then.
Edited by FernandoLemon on Aug 17th 2020 at 4:01:50 PM
I'd like to apologize for all this.Also, we'll also have to cut examples using music from another work, right, since that's not the same thing?
"Leftover items still have value!"I'm pretty sure that's the case.
Anyway, since I don't think anything is missing — hollering to hook the crowner.
I'd like to apologize for all this.
Crown Description:
Options aren't mutually exclusive
So, going by the description, Theme Tune Cameo is meant to be when a work's theme tune is used within the work as in-universe/diegetic music. However, some of the examples don't really follow this, at least assuming it's meant to be specifically about the Theme Tunes as implied by the description.
First off, there are several examples listing music other than theme tunes used this way - background themes, leitmotifs, Image Songs, ect. I'm not actually sure if the trope is meant to be flexible enough to also cover these examples, or be specifically and strictly about theme tunes as described in the Theme Tune trope - but if other music can be used, this should probably be mentioned somewhere in the description, which currently only mentions theme tunes and makes it seem like it's specific to them (and in this case, it would be a case of Unclear Description) Should probably also be noted there doesn't seem to be a more general trope for a work's music used in this way.
There are also some examples where the music is used non-diegetically, or at least makes it seem that way with no context, which can probably just be cut and/or moved to Title Theme Drop. Finally, some examples have works using (or sometimes parodying) the theme song... of another work/franchise. I'm under the impression that this trope is meant for works using their own music, or something from the same series, and not Shout-Outs to other works. (Also, how would fan works examples work in regards to this? A fan work referencing the theme song of the thing it's based on is technically not using music from the same work, so...)
Non-theme songsnote :
Non-diegetic music/unclear
Other work's theme song:
As for a wick check:
...While it's not widely misused, it's interesting to note how the on-page examples have more "non-theme tune" examples while the wicks on work pages have more "non-diegetic music" examples.
Since there doesn't seem to be a more general trope for this, I'll suggest:
(Either way, non-diegetic music examples should be cut, most likely along with the ones about theme tunes from other works)
Edited by Zanreo on Aug 13th 2020 at 6:49:05 PM
"Leftover items still have value!"