NATTER ALERT!

Some of these entries from MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagic.Tropes C To D, such as the second bullet, look rather nattery, but all of the entries have a Wall of Text problem.

• "Could Have Avoided This!" Plot:
  • In "The Ticket Master", after Twilight receives two tickets to the Grand Galloping Gala, all of her friends (and eventually everyone else in Ponyville) attempt to "convince" her to give them the extra ticket. Twilight eventually sends both tickets back to Princess Celestia, saying that if she can't bring all of her friends, then she doesn't want to go either. Celestia's reply is "Why didn't you just say so in the first place?", after which she sends extra tickets for all of the Mane Cast (and Spike).
  • While Spike did try to take steps to prevent a bad outcome, much of "Lesson Zero" could've been avoided had Twilight simply accepted Spike's advice that missing one letter to Celestia wouldn't doom her to Magic Kindergarten. More significantly, Twilight's friends realized that if they had taken Twilight's worries seriously from the start (even if they did think she was blowing things out of proportion) they could've acted to help Twilight and avoid the hilarity that ensued at the episode's end.
  • In "Swarm of the Century", after spotting the parasprites for the first time, Pinkie Pie starts scrambling around town for random musical instruments, without telling anyone else why. The rest of the town has been preoccupied with preparing for Celestia's visit, so they chalk it up to Pinkie being Pinkie. Had Twilight or one of the others stopped Pinkie to ask her about the instruments, they could've avoided the town getting overrun by the parasprites. Twilight acknowledges as much at the end of the episode, once Pinkie's led the parasprites out of town. However, as Pinkie could have explained why the parasprites were a looming threat and that that was why she was gathering so many seemingly random musical things, this works both ways.
  • In "A Bird in the Hoof", Fluttershy, being a Friend to All Living Things decides (without asking permission) to look after Princess Celestia's "sick" bird. Fluttershy struggles to nurse the bird back to health, but apparently "fails" as the bird seemingly turns to ashes. It then turns out that the bird is actually a phoenix, afterwhich Fluttershy learns that if she had just asked Celestia first, she would have known ahead of time.
  • The second Season Finale "A Canterlot Wedding, Part 1" combines this with Aesop Amnesia regarding the previously mentioned "Lesson Zero": if everyone else had just listened to Twilight Sparkle's concerns instead of assuming her outburst was fueled by jealousy, they would have figured out much sooner that "Princess Cadance" was actually Queen Chrysalis, a shapeshifting succubus plotting to feed on Shining Armor's love for the real Cadance and launch a full-scale invasion on Equestria with her army of Changelings, which she very nearly succeeds at doing in Part 2, even overpowering Princess Celestia thanks to her love-induced power-up—but not before rubbing this trope in the faces of Twilight's ashamed friends.
    Queen Chrysalis: It's funny, really. Twilight here was suspicious of my behavior all along. Too bad the rest of you were too caught up in your wedding planning to realize the suspicions were correct!
  • In the third Season episode "One Bad Apple", the whole situation regarding Babs Seed could've been resolved if Apple Bloom and Scootaloo had just listened to Sweetie Belle and told Applejack about it. Applejack tells them this at the end of the episode. However, Applejack falls into this as well. A lot of Babs' behavior made sense to the Cutie Mark Crusaders once she told them about what Babs had gone through in Manehattan. She did, however, explain she intentionally chose not to say anything to avoid getting Babs singled out over things the kid would rather forget.
  • The fifth Season episode "Brotherhooves Social" has Apple Bloom devastated over not being able to participate with Applejack in the Sisterhooves Social. Big Macintosh overhears Granny Smith telling her that that it shouldn't matter who her partner is as long as they both represent the spirit of the social. He dresses in drag and a wig and pretends to be Apple Bloom's cousin "Orchard Blossom" so he can participate with her. After Big Mac is disqualified for unsportsmanlike conduct, the judges point out that his "Orchard Blossom" getup was pointless because there never was a rule barring stallions from the social.

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Help me process this entry from AwesomeButImpractical.Real Life:

• Many modern skyscrapers are a perfect example of this, particularly the kind that were built or started during the relatively recent property bubble of 2002-2008. Examples like the Burj Khalifa in Dubai (in the UAE) or the towers in Mecca were an example of what can happen when a few megalomaniac oil barons with access to Western or East Asian (Japan, China, South Korea, etc.) resources (architects, engineers, and credit not locally available in the Middle East) build things for their own egos, but completely forget about cost and practicality. The result was more fuel a property bubble that helped puncture the world economy, depress growth rates in those countries, and may have indirectly sparked the Arab Spring. Mostly empty skyscrapers may look cool from a distance, but economically, they are a gargantuan waste of resources. It gets even worse when one considers the opportunity cost.
  • Which is compounded by the fact that the Burj Khalifa is not even connected to a sewer due to Dubai's lack of a centralized sewer system. All of the waste the building generates is stored in a massive septic tank which has to be regularly emptied by entire convoys of tanker trucks, which have to physically carry all the waste to the nearest treatment plant.
  • When a "megaproject" looks like it has been grafted onto a much poorer or smaller community that looks like it cannot support such a project, it generally is an example of this trope, like a giant hotel in North Korea, or Romania's oversize Palace of the Parliament that destroyed an entire neighbourhood in its construction.
  • Speaking of which: the North Korean "Ryugyong" hotel, also known as the "Hotel of Doom", is a massive, modern-looking palace that was to be the "tallest hotel in the world", had it actually been completed before someone else's hotel had snatched that title. It suffered numerous halts in construction, and was later deemed unfit for use and built so badly as to be structurally unsound - with things like concrete spontaneously breaking apart and crooked lift shafts. North Korea ran out of money before completing it, with some sources reporting the hotel costing the country 2% of its entire GDP during the years it was being built. It sat unused and decaying for years, and even now that a telecom group has been fixing what parts of it can be fixed and seems to actually, really be on the verge of opening it, only small parts of it will ever be used, as the rest is beyond repair.
  • This is a situation that is Older Than Dirt. Most of the most fabulous of the Ancient Wonders were built to satisfy the egos of the local rulers or city authorities. They were unrivaled architectural achievements that attracted the envy of all while simultaneously being incredibly expensive and of very little practical use. Particularly in Ancient Egypt, where it was not uncommon for a Pharaoh's monument building to leave the nation bankrupt. The Pyramids of Giza are a notable exception: far from being a drain on Egypt's wealth, the trade routes and associated infrastructure needed to raise the Pyramids became the very source of Egypt's immense wealth and economic power.
    • Many of those monumental projects were an early form of welfare manifesting as a jobs program meant to keep peasants and soldiers busy when they would otherwise have nothing productive to do. An ancient society wealthy enough to have a standing army (like Ancient Egypt) also had to make sure the peasants and soldiers weren't bored. If you have to feed and clothe them anyways ... you may as well point them at a construction project when they aren't otherwise busy.
    • The poem Ozymandias by Shelley lampshades this. The narrator is at the base of what was once a mighty, grandiose statue built to satisfy the honor and ego of the titular ruler. Emphasis on 'once', because it clearly wasn't built to last centuries in the desert winds, which knocked down and eroded it away to practically nothing.

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I took care of the above, but I need help toning down this entry from the same page. I don't know which parts are most important to the example.

• Extreme couponing. Getting a lot of groceries and spending very little money sounds enticing, but it can be more trouble than it's worth.
  • Extreme couponing can be a massive time sink, with acquiring, cutting, and sorting coupons, doing research to maximize savings, then actually going to the store(s) to buy products.
  • Extreme couponing can result in hoarding behavior. Stockpiling uses up space, with some couponers converting spare rooms into storerooms, and the couponer runs the risk of products expiring before they're ever consumed.
  • Extreme couponing can often lead to unhealthy eating habits, as the food items that most often have coupons tend to be junk food, processed ready-to-eat foods, and frozen foods, which tend to be high in fat, salt, sugar, and other preservatives.
  • Both stores and manufacturers have gotten wise to shelf clearing by extreme couponers, with either the store or the manufacturer explicitly posting limits on how many (legitimate) duplicate coupons can be used in a single transaction or by a single customer in any given day. Most couponers get around this limitation by hitting multiple stores or even visiting the same store later in the day, particularly after shift changes.
  • Many stores offer digital coupons via their official smartphone app, and there are also third-party printable coupon websites. Typically, these apps and services limit customers to one coupon of any given product per account. To get more digital coupons, extreme couponers often set up extra accounts, typically in their children's (or grandchildren's) name, and in some cases, their parents' (or grandparents') name as well.
  • While some extreme couponers may donate their items to charity (such as to help elderly, homeless, or other economically disadvantaged people) or have large families to justify extreme couponing, others buy products with the intention of flipping the items for a profit, typically at yard sales or on online marketplaces. This does not only have potential legal ramifications (e.g,. not licensed to run a retail operation, not paying taxes on profits, etc.), but it could also be unsafe for buyers, especially if a particular product is not stored properly or gets recalled. Reselling items acquired with coupons also violate the terms and conditions of many coupons, which are intended for personal use.
  • Extreme couponers often earn scorn from store employees and other customers for wasting time and backing up a checkout line, especially when a couponer starts arguing with the cashier and the manager on duty over coupons that don't work.
  • Some extreme couponers resort to illegal means such as coupon fraud (e.g., counterfeit coupons, deliberately using expired coupons, "decoding" legitimate coupons^note using coupons for products not explicitly listed on the coupon (ex., using a coupon intended for a 20 oz. (600 mL) or larger bottle of shampoo towards a travel size), photocopying coupons, etc.) and/or outright stealing Sunday circulars for attaining their savings. Getting caught means that a couponer could end up serving jail time, having to pay fines or restitution, and getting banned from shopping at a particular store, either at a specific location or the entire chain, temporarily, or in rare cases, permanently.
  • Some extreme couponers buy and sell clipped coupons. While manufacturers generally don't mind people sharing their coupons with family and friends, clipping and selling coupons for profit not only violates the "non-transferability" clause, it is also illegal. Coupon clippers often try to invoke Loophole Abuse by saying they are giving the coupons away for free and are instead selling the "service" of clipping and shipping said coupons. Buying from unscrupulous sources also has the risk of obtaining counterfeit, expired, or stolen coupons.
  • TLC's Extreme Couponing, the reality show that helped popularize the practice, was revealed to be staged, much like virtually every reality show ever made. Many retailers featured on the show turned a blind eye to their normal couponing policies for the sake of publicity.

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The natter in this DieForOurShip.Anime And Manga entry is pretty bad. Bonus points for the This Troper.

• Dragon Ball Z:
  • Yamcha often gets twisted into a wife-beater by fans of the Bulma/Vegeta pairing. As long as we're on the subject, why shippers think that a wife-beater would be worse than an Omnicidal Maniac is anyone's guess.
    • Many Dragon Ball Z fanfics have had Yamcha cheating on Bulma with another woman as the impetus for Bulma to break it off with him and get together with Vegeta, who had pulled a Heel–Face Turn by the time the Frieza saga was over, though he was still something of an arrogant Jerkass. Yamcha being unfaithful to Bulma might have some canon basis, but Bulma wasn't exactly the perfect girlfriend to him either and he definitely wasn't an abusive boyfriend to her at any point. Again, this begs the question of how Yamcha cheating on Bulma is worse than Vegeta nearly letting Bulma and their son get murdered in the Android Saga by Dr. Gero and then Vegeta flat out saying that he doesn't care about them. Surely not caring if your girlfriend and infant son die is worse than cheating on your girlfriend, but not if you follow the shipper's logic.
    • You also have to consider that there is very limited evidence for Yamcha cheating on Bulma. Future Trunks had a one-liner where mentioned that Bulma dumped Yamcha for being a "playboy". However, Future Trunks is a third-hand source and incredibly biased source as well because he is Bulma and Vegeta's son. (You also have to consider that Yamcha is the guy who used to have panic attacks around attractive women). We are never actually shown how Bulma and Yamcha ended up breaking up or how Bulma and Vegeta got together. And again, while Yamcha cheating on Bulma would be wrong if that's what happened, Vegeta not caring if Bulma and baby-Trunks got blown up is much worse. (While Vegeta does have some villainous qualities in the android saga, we are sort of supposed to accept him as a member of the Z Fighters and a "good guy" at that point.)
    • Demonizing Yamcha is even more ridiculous when you consider that Bulma and Vegeta are still together by the end of DBZ and have two children together, so it's not like Yamcha or anyone else for that matter poses a threat to the ship.
    • It's also interesting and by interesting I mean ridiculous that Yamcha is portrayed as abusive when Bulma is probably more prone to domestic violence. She once slapped Yamcha in Dragon Ball because he had a fanclub and other girls were flirting with him, even though Yamcha never flirted back and generally seemed uncomfortable with the whole thing, and then Bulma told him that she was going to wish for a better boyfriend. Meanwhile, Yamcha tries to make up with Bulma afterwards, even though he technically didn't do anything wrong. Bulma exhibits other controlling behavior in their relationship and has a double standard where it's okay for her to flirt with or eye up other men, but fangirls fawning over Yamcha warrants Bulma flipping out on him and accusing him of being unfaithful. This is in spite of Yamcha seeming to not flirt back with said fangirls and seeming to only care that Bulma likes him. Not saying that we should all write fanfics where [insert character here] rescues Yamcha from a dysfunctional and possibly abusive relationship with Bulma, but the fact is that nearly all the dysfunction in the Bulma/Yamcha relationship was because of Bulma.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Oct 26th 2020 at 10:40:44 AM

Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!

I'm new to this Natter forum so I'm sorry if I got it wrong. So I found some of them that I think is Natter so here are some examples: From The 7D

• Too Dumb to Live: Seriously, Grim? You thought your aunt sent you a volcano-making spell ("The Rock Of Sages") despite you not having an aunt? How does Hildy put up with you?

From Sara is Missing

• What the Hell, Hero?: No matter what you do when James's life is threatened, you risk one life or multiple. It's all a matter of what you believe is the right choice, even though it doesn't make a difference.

From Escape the Night YMMV page

• It Was His Sled: Overall, all the deaths.
  • Season 1: THE STAFF ARE F**KING EVIL!!
  • Season 2: JOEY WAS AN IDIOT, GOT HIMSELF KILLED IN THE LAST EP AND F**KING CAME BACK!!!
  • Season 3: MORTIMER BECAME EVIL! MATPAT CAME BACK!!!!
  • Season 4: Ro marries The Emperor.^note This was actually spoiled in one of her videos dating a few days prior to the premiere of the season. COLLEEN CAME BACK!!

For Escape The Night, I have been notching some of the natter edit before and removing some of the natter but not this one yet. Should I removed some of them?

Edited by Bubblepig on Oct 28th 2020 at 11:55:09 AM

“What is that? It's The Unknown!”

Found this on She's a Man in Japan:

• Providing the current page image, when Saban Entertainment adapted Kyōryū Sentai Zyuranger into the original Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, they took advantage of their flexible adaptation method to avert the Smurfette Principle by casting a woman as the Yellow Ranger. They'd repeat this trick in future seasons when necessary: Lost Galaxy, Lightspeed Rescue, Time Force, and Dino Fury, were adapted from "Pink is the only female Ranger" Sentais, and in the case of Wild Force, a white ranger, ^note  (although her uniform had pink accents) giving the male Yellow Rangers and Dino Fury's male Green Ranger female counterparts each time. Many of these costumes had skirts added when worn by Luka Millify/GokaiYellow/Gia Moran/Super Megaforce Yellow. Which just raises ''further'' questions.

The example itself is alright. What I have a question with is the last sentence. It just seems like it unneccesarily gives a link to Futurama when it's not really needed. Should I remove it?

Yes, I'm a fan of Futurama and I still have no idea what they're talking about.

It's presumably a reference to the quote linked on Voodoo Shark, which is unnecessary because it's not like Futurama invented the phrase "raises further questions."

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Can somebody help me consolidate this string of bullets on The Nostalgia Critic: The Critic: Tropes A-E into one shorter example?

• Distressed Dude:
  • He got kidnapped by the Game Heroes and was made to promote their stuff at gunpoint.
  • When he was chloroformed by The Nostalgia Chick, he got just as much into the victim role.
  • Spooning With Spoony II probably counts, seeing as how he was the only canon one who was roofied and judging by the details, Spoony really went to town on humiliating him.
  • Made fun of in the Sidekicks review where he acts like he's chained up.
  Critic: Next I bet you wanna hook up my nipples to a car battery, don't you? Don't you?
  • Also played for laughs in Care Bears Movie II when Christy's screaming wears him down even though he knows it's a trap.
  Critic: Oh my God, a bag!
  • Teddy Ruxpin forces a gun in his mouth and makes him write a more positive review, killing him when he screams for help.
  • Before Ma-Ti comes in to take the brunt of the abuse in the brawl, he spends most of the beginning on the floor. Both Linkara and the Chick joined in specifically to save him.
  • Looks to be the case in Linkara's Previously on… for Countdown, with Chester in control and shot with Hitler Cam, and Critic being shown in the opposite camera angle and surrounded by darkness. He recovers (with snark) better in this instance than he does the others.
  • The amount of I Have You Now, My Pretty moments he's been subjected to would make this list even longer.
  • By The Wiz, all that distress seems to have warped his brain a little, as he's actually disappointed when learning Todd isn't a rapist Loony Fan who wants him.
  • Near the end of Man of Steel, Zod takes him hostage and would have slowly tortured him to death (making good on what was threatened in To Boldly Flee) if it hadn't been for Superman's intervention.
  • He's alone with Shya-Amon in Devil and is about to get Mind Raped again before Devil-In-Santa-Christ saves his ass.
  • “What You Never Knew About TMNT” strongly implies that Hyper Fangirl kidnapped him, as he's suddenly 'missing until further notice and terrified' after she had broken into his house. Turns out that she'd taken him to a Big Fancy House that she got from a previous stalking victim and was making him do 'romantic' stuff with her (under gunpoint and torture threats) until he fell in love with her. He reminds her of this in the Christmas Story II rant but is Made Out to Be a Jerkass.
  • In the Halloween (1978) parody of 2014's Nostalgiaween, he takes the place of Justine and get stabbed, although this might be an hallucination of his.
  • Subverted in Pop Quiz Hotshot pilot, as he's technically there against his will, but he's fine and is especially happy watching losing contestants die. In the rebooted version, he's the one taking a page from Hyper and kidnapping people to try and make them his friends.
  • For liking Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome more than Mad Max: Fury Road, he gets kidnapped by Devil Boner, Improbable Joe and the other War Boys.
  • Lampshaded in Christmas With The Kranks, where he asks “why is it whenever I wake up I have a 50/50 chance of being held against my will”?
  • Played for Laughs in “Cats and Dogs”, when he was apparently held hostage by a this◊ kid with a gun.
  Critic: I'm never taking that babysitting job again.

  • He's also creeped out by how calm the kid is while blindfolded and tied up, and says in his experience, he'd be scared shitless no matter what age he was.
  • Also amusingly lampshaded in Cinderella: Old vs New, as Hyper and Devil Boner are proud of the other for keeping Critic hostage so well.
  • In the crossover review of BMX Bandits, Diamanda Hagan uses General Anesthetic to hold him at gunpoint so he'll do the review with her. He's irritated but it's happened so much he takes it in stride.
  • Lampshaded in "Old vs New: Evil Dead", where Hyper Boner kidnap him together (it's a thing) and he says he's been kidnapped so many times a plumber is constantly being told he's in another castle.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

How's this?

• Distressed Dude: Doug and company seem rather fond of this trope, as Critic has been kidnapped, held hostage, or beaten up at least once by almost every character he's interacted with. Perpetrators include characters from the movie he's currently reviewing, his fellow content creators, original characters, and, in the Cats and Dogs review, a child that he's babysitting. This is a common enough trope in the series that it's been lampshaded multiple times.

That works, thank you! Will probably have to come back with other entries because his character page has a bad episodic troping problem that results in these long sub-bulleted entries for specific examples.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Aha, I found the other entry that had issues. EDIT: Sorry, two other entries. At least.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 31st 2020 at 1:57:05 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

The rewrites are pretty good, though I'd nix the Guyver example in the first one — it just belabors the point you already made.

I found another natter from Seemingly-Wholesome '50s Girl page. Here's the exmaple:

Angel : "High School Honor Student by Day. Hollywood Hooker by Night." One wonders how she kept her grades up if you know what I mean.

Also can you please check on my previous post?

Edited by Bubblepig on Nov 1st 2020 at 2:33:06 AM

“What is that? It's The Unknown!”

That's not so much natter as much as it is zero-context.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Oh ok, I'll comment it out with an edit reason. Not to mention that they used First person sentence, which is not allowed. Also what about my previous post here?

“What is that? It's The Unknown!”

Your first post is just a bunch of zero-context examples, not so much natter. "Natter" is more along the lines of two different posters talking to/arguing with each other in the examples, not some weirdo who writes examples as though they're talking directly to the character or actor or author or whatever.

It helps to know that Natter is a redirect to Conversation in the Main Page. The official name is pretty crystal-clear.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

From YMMV.Cardfight Vanguard:

• Woolseyism:
  • Team Foo Fighter was renamed "Team Asteroid". It's either this or a Macekre depending on who you ask.^note They are both astronomy based terms ("foo fighter" is a slang term for a UFO), however, the original version calls them one name, while the dub calls them by a completely different name.
    • This may be due to the presence of the real-life Foo Fighters, a rather famous rock band who are still active today. American viewers would probably associate the name more with the band than the slang.
    • This gets annoying when the official English subs decided to start subtitling "Foo Fighter" as "Asteroid" - even though "Foo Fighter" is said in English. This is not too bad, since to western viewers - as noted above - "Foo Fighter" is probably more associated with the band, and doesn't sound as cool as "Asteroid". However: In a season 3 episode, Tetsu calls a young Ren a "Foo Fighter", which he explains is a "Strong, yet mysterious fighter". None of this is changed in the subs, resulting in Ren bizarrely leaping from him and Tetsu forming a team of Foo Fighter that shall be named... "Team Asteroid"....
    • That, and the record label would likely get lawsuit-happy if the dub used the name.
    • Vanguard G dub ends up sticking with their nickname of AL4.

This entry really can't seem to decide whether the change is actually a Woolseyism or not...

"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."

Oh ,my bad. I thought Batter also mean a conversation with a character too. And I don't get the third example whatever it's out universe What the Hell, Hero?, sarcasm or both. Also which example I should remove?

“What is that? It's The Unknown!”

SpongeBob SquarePants' fridge subpage is an absolute eyesore to look at. To quote Fred, "MY EYES!!!"

Edited by ChillyBeanBAM on Nov 5th 2020 at 7:21:47 AM

he/him

Can I please trim the note in Creator.Simu Liu about previous MCU Asian heroes, if not remove it altogether? I fear it looks like an attempt to trivialize Liu's accomplishment. If we must have the note at all, can we trim it to only mention Marvel Studios' real first Asian hero?

Edited by dsneybuf on Nov 6th 2020 at 9:35:03 AM

I believe the note should be cut. The paragraph clearly states that he will be the first Asian lead in an MCU film, and both Hogun and Ho Yinsen were more side characters that helped the heroes.

Their actors' names didn't even appear on the posters!

If Chadwick Boseman and Brie Larson never had such notes, why would someone consider it a good idea to give one to Simu Liu?

Edited by dsneybuf on Nov 7th 2020 at 10:51:15 AM

This example on YMMV.American Sniper has a huge note that seems like it was written in defense of the movie and Chris Kyle:

• Memetic Mutation: The various controversies over Chris Kyle and this film spawned various image macros and demotivators comparing him unfavorably to various historical snipers, especially World War II-era Finnish sniper Simo Häyhä. [1]^note Pretty much everything about this macro is wrong, by the way. Hayha was only credited with 219 sniper kills in a contemporary source rather than 505 (which was used without evidence later for propaganda purposes), the methods by which snipers in World War II confirmed kills were much looser than the standards by which the U.S. military confirms kills today resulting in rampant inflation of the former's numbers (as a result Kyle almost certainly killed more enemies than Hayha did), the idea that the Iraq War was fought for American corporate interests (when all of Iraq's resource contracts were given to China) has long since been debunked as Dated History, and finally, Hayha certainly did claim credit for things he never did (like killing over 500 people, claimed in his journal).

back lol