YMMV / Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

• Accidental Aesop:
  • Getting Kreia's approval on anything is generally the hardest achievement in the game, and for some plot points impossible by definition. The only relatively consistent way to get her content is simply telling her that she may be right or that you'll consider your actions more. While her constant reactions are clearly scripted as a form of Nietzschean/Socratic mentorship based on constant questions and the juxtaposition of opposite ideas, following the mentioned advice towards her character brings the accidental lesson that some people are just not worth arguing with.
  • Regardless of whether the Force is benevolent or not as Kreia argues, the story underlines more clearly in the process that sometimes people in charge don't act out of the wisdom, experience, altruism or competence expected in someone their rank, but merely of petty self-interest and/or sheer fear. This message is far from being alien to the Star Wars universe, but it becomes particularly relevant in the stance of the Jedi Council's members through the game, especially the least sympathetic ones.
• Adorkable: The Handmaiden becomes visibly excited to ask the Exile questions about the Force when they meet in the Telos academy, as they are the first Jedi she meets other than the dogmatic Atris. The way she insists to know even although the Exile cannot find the words is just adorable, making it all more satisfying when the Exile and/or Kreia finally give her the answers she wanted.
• Alternative Character Interpretation:
  • This game makes you think about the first game and what Revan's real motivations were, especially in light of the test given by the Star Map computer on Kashyyyk.
  • Kreia, being a Consummate Liar and Unreliable Expositor, is subject to a lot of this. Her stated goal is to kill the Force, believing it to be a cruel god content to leave the galaxy in a bloody Forever War between Light and Dark. However, some believe that what she's really trying to do is have the Exile rebuild the Jedi Order free of its past corruption and mistakes or just make them a worthy companion for Revan against the True Sith. It doesn't help that she claims both at different times (more explicitly in restored content); it's entirely possible she'd be happy either way.
  • Speaking about Kreia, she claims to hate the Force and to only use it as a poison, waiting for the day in which she can dispose of it. However, when the Handmaiden asks the Exile and Kreia about how feels to sense the Force, the latter's answers could hardly be more heartfelt - she describes sensing the Force as the most wonderful thing one can imagine, even for the Dark Side, and speaks about its absence as the ultimate loss of vital sense. Hearing this, it is hard to believe she could have actually wished to kill the Force as she claimed. Was she really willing to go through such pain herself along with everybody for the greater good, or is just plain lying about her plan? Note that even she acknowledges that she may only be deluding herself about why she uses the Force while hating it, which just opens the door to say that any or all of the above and more are possible.
  • Why does Kreia love the Exile despite all of her manipulations, as she claims? Is it really because the Exile embodies all Traya appreciates? Or might it be that Kreia, especially due to being Force-bonded to the Exile, is being affected herself by the Exile Magnetic Hero powers like everybody else without even realizing it? Or is it both? Or is she still lying?
  • Is Sion's existence driven by his anger as it is claimed? Or is he actually keeping himself alive only because he fears death, another Dark Side emotion? Or is he using both anger and fear?
• Anti-Climax Boss:
  • Kreia/Darth Traya can be one. Sure, she hovers three lightsabers in front of you, but all you have to do is sidestep them, then hit her a few times. It really depends on how much you've leveled yourself by the time you get there. Her health is three times yours, and at higher levels that's a number reaching up to 1000. Still, her floating lightsabers aren't that tough... especially if you confuse them and get them stuck.
  • Darth Nihilus. For a guy touted as an utter monster, a decently equipped party will tear him apart in under a minute. This is justified in-game, though: Nihilus is a wound in the Force, as is the player. When he tries to feed on the player, naturally it backfires and he's a lot weaker.
  • Atris also qualifies. While she didn't have so much buildup as the other major bosses, the encounter is very climactic and since you are facing a Jedi Master you are likely to expect a decent fight... only for her to go down in few hits. Her attacks and saves aren't too impressive either, so depending on your level and equipment she might border on Zero-Effort Boss. This is justifiable in that she was a historian, not a fighter, so combat was not her main focus, to say nothing of the fact that her skills are probably rusty after hiding out for so long.
  • The last Mandalorian challenger you fight in the on Dxun, Bralor, will allow you to use whatever weapons you want as well as your force powers while he challenges you using only his fists. While Bralor is the best hand to hand fighter you'll face in the Battle Circle, none of that will stand a chance against a jedi's force powers and/or a lightsaber if you have constructed one by this point. Assuming you don't decide to meet his challenge also only using hand to hand with no powers, you'll probably blow through him with ease compared to the other challenges who are considered "weaker".
• Anvilicious:
  • The sheer amount of criticism hurled at both the Star Wars universe in general and the Force in particular. While there are definitely good points to be made, how many of them are valid is perhaps the major point of contention between those who love the game and those who don't.
  • The narrative's insistence on blaming the Force itself for all the problems with the universe can also be seen as a heavy handed metaphor for the dangers of religious and/or ideological zealotry.
    Kreia: If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single idea.
• Arc Fatigue: The Peragus mining facility is just painful. It's a long and boring slog through an eerily empty base, fighting alone until the end. There's an Unintentionally Unwinnable oversight in one section, and you're running around in your underwear until you find a mining uniform. Anyone who hasn't been there before will likely get lost or have no idea what to do at points. Even fans of the Peragus level will say it goes on too long and feel not much would be missed if it was cut in half.
• Awesome Music:
  • When you finally enter the rebuilt Jedi enclave, you are introduced to it with a panning shot that shows it starting to return to life, like what it once was in the first game. This glimmer of hope is underscored by "Rebuilt Jedi Enclave", which then enhances the next moment when the Exile either gets turned on by the Lost Jedi they've sought in the Light Side endgame, or gets chewed out by Kreia herself for such a futile pursuit of revenge in the Dark Side endgame.
  • "The Sith Lords" is an ambivalent theme that mixes heroic and foreboding tunes to convey a unique uncertainty.
  • "Telos Battle" has a persistent snare that befits a marching tune, and despite the track name it is perfectly suitable for battles on Onderon, particularly in the midst of the civil war.
• Base-Breaking Character: Kreia is an incredibly divisive figure. Either one finds her long, disdainful iconoclastic monologues about the nature of the Force and Revan's past to be a fascinating highlight of the game, or one finds that same tendency incredibly annoying and pedantic. Seeing as Kreia is the main source of exposition, the most prominent NPC and the Big Bad herself, whether one enjoys this game or not often depends heavily on how much one enjoys Kreia.
• Big-Lipped Alligator Moment: HK-47's pacifist package sequence. You get this opportunity after doing a side-quest, which results in giving HK-47 a Fate Worse than Death by temporarily turning him into a pacifist. It's utterly hilarious (if somewhat unsettling), it's over quickly and is never brought up again.
• Broken Base:
  • Some adore the game for deconstructing the Star Wars universe's Balance Between Good and Evil, while others hate it by the same reason, and a third camp likes the idea yet finds the way that the story does so - by stacking the deck in favor of a Base-Breaking Character - to be unlikable.
  • What was Kreia's real plan is the title of a discussion that has been raging since the year the game was released. Replace "plan" with "philosophy", "meaning", "nature" or any other similar word and the debate increases exponentially.
• Captain Obvious Reveal: It isn't actually acknowledged that Mandalore is Canderous Ordo until quite late in the story, despite having the same voice and personality and repeatedly identifying himself as a member of Clan Ordo. Like a lot of the game's shortcomings, this is due to The Reveal having been intended to occur in a much earlier scene that wasn't finished in time.^note A scene shortly before the trip to Iziz would have had Kreia blackmail him into following the Exile, with her referring to him as Canderous.
• Come for the Game, Stay for the Mods: The game is infamous for the large amount of cut content as it was Christmas Rushed, and the Restored Content Mod does the game justice by restoring what would have been in the commercial product. This was helped by the Steam Workshop making the Restored Content Mod accessible.
• Common Knowledge: It was commonly stated that Avellone hated Star Wars (or BioWare) and wrote KOTOR 2 the way he did as a Take That!. This actually wasn't true - BioWare chose Obsidian specifically to follow up on the first game due to a mixture of them feeling Obsidian would be able to do it justice as well as the tight development schedule set by LucasArts. Avellone didn't hate Star Wars - he was relatively unfamiliar with the expanded universe and engrossed himself feeling that he wanted to give the characters more depth to them. To wit, it is known that he did a deep dive into available Star Wars Expanded Universe material at the time, and even the small references and Mythology Gag moments show how much he got from it.
• Contested Sequel: In relation to Knights of the Old Republic, depending on who you ask, the game is be either a horribly incomplete mess, a sufficiently awesome sequel, or one even better than its predecessor. The only generally agreed aspect is that the game could have been much better if Obsidian was actually given enough time to finish the game or allowed to patch it like they wanted after its release.
• Creepy Awesome: Kreia is a creepy old lady that mind rapes enemies and "allies" left to right, and is the game's most prominent example of an Magnificent Bitch.
• Critical Backlash: Peragus is probably the least liked part of the game, so much that some people actually didn't find it that bad.
• Crosses the Line Twice:
  • The aforementioned pacifist package incident is the worst thing you can possibly do to HK-47, but the sheer hilarity makes it worth it.
  • One of the cutscenes of Teeth-Clenched Teamwork has Kreia approach T3 before exclaiming "Betrayal!" and zapping him with Force lightning, decrying the Exile's fondness for machines over her.
  • When a pair of Exchange thugs are shaking down a refugee on Nar Shaddaa, the Exile can tell the thugs to hand over all their credits then jump into the nearby pit. Due to the way companions are scripted, they will comment on your kindness after the refugee flees in terror.
    Thug: Jumping into the pit is a good idea. Get to ground faster that way.
• Cult Classic: The game is still getting attention more than a decade after its release, in no small part thanks for the Restoration Mod (whose popularity also keeps getting stronger over time, being often believed by fans to be the main reason it got an Updated Re-release on Steam with mod support, giving new life to a decade-old game), and it keeps generating endless debate about both the game and the entire Star Wars universe. So influential was this game that its themes and concepts continued to influence the franchise even after Disney reset the canon — Luke Skywalker's portrayal in The Last Jedi borrows heavily from both Kreia and the Jedi Exile, and the Force bond between Rey and Kylo Ren echoes the Exile's and Kreia's, up to and including the ability to telepathically communicate across large distances.
• Disappointing Last Level: A major offender, with its last act that is missing most of its content (and sense) thanks to Executive Meddling. It's more or less you alone on a planet where there is nothing to do but mow down bad guys with your awesome Force powers until you get to the final boss.
• Don't Shoot the Message:
  • The game's detractors argue the good points of the game are hurt by its at times condescending tone. Kreia is the main focus of this, as she is the "messenger" of the game's philosophy.
  • Regardless of whether Kreia was right about her creepy theological musings or not, this game effectively demonstrates how conflicts between "good" and "evil" invariably leave devastation in their wake not matter who wins; throughout this game the player sees worlds scarred and destroyed by the battles between the Jedi and their enemies, and encounter countless people driven from their homes by the wars consuming the galaxy. The Black-and-White Morality of Jedi and their enemies becomes less clear when one sees how much damage is caused by both sides, even when the "good" side triumphs, while the actions of the Council and Atris show that even those calling themselves good can easily end up doing just as much harm as the villains they fight against.
• Ensemble Dark Horse: Several fans wanted Luxa as a squadmate or an NPC-type ally, despite her limited screen time. There's a reason for that. The Twin Suns have also proven popular with the fanbase for the same reason; there even exists a mod to replace the Exile with one of the Suns as the playable character.
• Fan Nickname:
  • One of the options for a male Exile has shoulder-length sandy hair and a full beard. This inevitably led fans to dub this character model "Jedi Jesus".
  • Darth Karen: Kreia, for her difficult-to-please persona and name almost being a anagram for the now-infamous meme name.
• Fanon: Kreia being the Handmaiden's mother, Jedi Master Arren Kae. This notion is so well established within the game's fandom that it might be surprising to know it is an officially unconfirmed theory, which was even Jossed by late expanded materials (though admittedly not written by the game's creators). Overall, while it's undeniable that there are a ton of clues in favor of the theory and no real argument against it, to the extent the whole thing feels almost like an unmade Captain Obvious Reveal, the fact that it was never confirmed draws a line which those who enjoy analyzing the game's many ambiguities often forget. (This is not always the case, though - you can find people that actually like the fact that the topic was ultimately left unresolved, as it adds mystery and style to the story.)
• Game-Breaker:
  • The Exile's Force energy recovery rate effectively makes them a Physical God by the time Malachor V is reached (to the point that subsequent novel writers of the character simply ignore it). Guardians, which usually have a very small Force pool, are well-compensated by the numerous increases to the Exile's max Force points. Consulars can reach upwards of 800 Force points, making their reserves essentially bottomless, and you can toss around opposing-alignment Force Powers without noticing the impact of the cost penalty!
  • The Force Speed power is already great out the box because it lets you travel at double speed to traverse large maps faster. Its true strength shines at its second and third ranks, which give you extra hits per round of combat. Combine it with two or double-bladed melee weapons with the Flurry attack, and you can deliver up to 5 hits in one round (six with the Juyo form)! It's also neutral, so Jedi and Sith can use it with no penalty.
  • The Jedi Weapon Master Prestige Class greatly improves the Exile's defenses with passives that add to blaster deflection, damage reduction, and melee damage. This is before accounting for all the things you can access with its bonus feats. Combine with a Consular base to create a Magic Knight of your fancy!
  • Sith Marauders, on the other hand, exchange deflection bonuses for the ability to enter a rage, giving them more damage, extra damage reduction, and additional attacks per round (that don't stack with Force Speed). The total damage reduction is enough for the Exile to straight-up take zero damage from many enemy attacks, and they become an Implacable Man just like Hanharr!
  • Consulars/Jedi Masters/Sith Lords can pick up Force Potency as one of the Force forms learned from the Lost Jedi. This gives a 30% force power damage bonus, which is devastating with Force Storm, which has one of the highest base damage that scales with level. You can do well over 100 damage in a single cast near the endgame, eradicating entire rooms of mobs in one or two rounds of combat.
  • The new weapon upgrade system is extremely powerful. Even basic weapons made from the bench will put out frightening damage numbers once modified with the best upgrades, and you'll eventually start finding high-power weaponry that can still be upgraded with these parts. This is what lets you create custom blasters that match or even outdo lightsabers. Sentinels compensate for being middle-of-the-road between Guardians and Consulars by just straight-up crafting the best weapon parts available, though the other two classes can still access these upgrade parts with the help of very skilled party members (Bao-Dur comes to mind).
  • The Exile's personal crystal, obtained from a special crystal formation in Dantooine's kinrath caves, has unique properties that scale with the Exile's power and alignment, as long as Kreia helps adjust the crystal every now and then. At the earliest point you get it, the crystal is already significantly stronger than most other lightsaber power crystals. By the endgame the crystal can give monstrous bonuses to damage and stats that no other lightsaber crystal can bestow — it's one of the factors that makes the Exile as overpowered as they are.
  • Force Crush freezes a given enemy in place as you raise them through the air with telekinesis, then break their neck, doing massive damage in the process. Saving against it only reduces the damage but doesn't prevent immobilization, meaning you can stunlock a lone enemy, even Darth Sion, until they die. You unlock it in the endgame of a dark side playthrough, and with it, there isn't anything left in the game that can challenge you barring getting overwhelmed by large numbers. In contrast, its light-sided counterpart, Force Enlightenment, simply casts three existing buffs at once and needs the player to have invested in all of them for maximum mileage, while Force Crush doesn't require this much forethought.
  • There's a simple sidequest on Nar Shaddaa that gives T3-M4 a special energy shield with unlimited uses. It has no cooldown, either, so you can reactivate the shield the moment it goes down, making T3 Nigh-Invulnerable to energy weapons as long as you're paying attention. The three HK-50s that confront you later in the level use only energy weapons. You can imagine the result.
• Genius Bonus: Much of Kreia's philosophy and world view falls in line with those of Friedrich Nietzsche, and some parts of the game (such as Kreia's "test" involving offering to show the Exile how to tap into Hanharr's primal strength) are much easier to understand and navigate if one has knowledge of Nietzschean philosophy.
• Goddamned Bats: The Gand are everywhere in the Jekk'Jekk Tarr, and they all go aggro if you storm the place. They're also barely waist-high and are quick work with a lightsaber... individually.
• Good Bad Bugs: Due to the game's rushed state, it's possible to use all sorts of weird exploits to amass more influence, experience and money than you know what to do with:
  • The Handmaiden normally strips down to her underwear while dueling onboard the Ebon Hawk, and the player can ask her to put some clothes on after their duels. It was possible to exploit this so that multiple copies of her robes were amassed by doing the same conversation over and over, which were worth 2000 credits a piece. Do the math.
  • It's possible to cheat during the Handmaiden's training game, then berate her for calling you out on it. This can be done indefinitely, resulting in maximum dark-side points and influence with her if you repeat it.
  • Likewise, it's possible to get to maximum influence with both Kreia and Atton by exploiting holes in the conversation system (asking Kreia about Visas' homeworld with a high Intelligence, and having Atton during a scripted event on Nar Shaddaa) to max them out in minutes.
  • By switching weapons during one of the Handmaiden sparring matches, right before she becomes "hostile," it literally turns it into a Duel to the Death. That's right. You can kill the Handmaiden on the Ebon Hawk. If you exit the ship, she will not be available for your party. If you re-enter, however, she will be back.
  • On Korriban, checking the corpses, with or without picking up their loot, causes the stealthed Hssiss to spawn and attack you. This only happens once per corpse, but one particular corpse is missing this limitation. In a game where you normally have a finite amount of experience available, fighting the Hssiss indefinitely lets you grind to your heart's content.
  • If you choose to fight in the Mandalorian battle circle, breaking the rules of the duel (such as bringing a lightsaber or Force powers to a fistfight) counts as forfeiting. However, the developers forgot to check if the player had planted mines in the dueling area beforehand... (This one was fixed in TSLRCM.)
  • One of the final influence rewards with Hanharr is to break his will, reducing his intelligence but increasing his strength. This becomes a bug when the game lets you repeat this several times and drop his INT below zero - causing it to pull a loop-the-loop and turn Hanharr into a Genius Bruiser.
  • There is a glitch that allows the player to duplicate their lightsabers and get as many as you want without having to hunt them down and rely on the RNG. Give a lightsaber to the exile, then have a non-exile Jedi use a workbench. Change the color crystal of the exile's equipped lightsaber and hit the assemble button. Then select the color crystal option again but don't select one; just hit the assemble button again. That should create a glitch lightsaber. Save and immediately reload to make the glitch lightsaber as real as the original. Don't try to create more than one glitch lightsaber at a time: doing so will cause the game to reset. This also duplicates all upgrades that were on the lightsaber in question.
  • The six kath hounds in Visquith's arena can easily swarm you but their attacks don't actually seem to hurt you, offering you some respite after the fight between Mira and Hanharr.
  • Some of the Steam achievements will unlock at random. Dancing Queen, in particular, can be unlocked upon leaving Peragus, which occurs long before the player even reaches Nar Shaddaa or hears about Vogga the Hutt.
  • Sometimes the wall hit detection is not completely airtight. Although it's tight enough to keep you from walking through walls, it sometimes lets your area-of-effect Force Powers hit enemies in the next room.
  • On Nar Shaddaa, saving the refugee by mind controlling thugs into jumping to their deaths is a dark side action... yet several companions get light side approval from this as the game only recognises that you saved the refugee and not how you did so. This only serves to make an already funny moment even more so.
• Harsher in Hindsight: Go here.
• Hilarious in Hindsight: Go here.
• Ho Yay: Atton and Visas' dialogue doesn't change too much with the gender of the Exile. Both of them are still very protective of a same-sex Exile, Kreia blackmails Atton the same way, and Visas is just as devoted. (Although Atton is pretty glad when a male Exile finds clothes, which is the opposite of his reaction to the female Exile doing so.)
• Hype Backlash: The game is still discussed and talked about by fans, and those often praise it highly for giving them reasons to discuss and talk (or at least they consider it a must-play). After so much hearing that the game is basically Star Wars's answer to Neon Genesis Evangelion, it's understandable that new players, especially those who aren't particularly fond of deconstruction and philosophy, can get disappointed by the product as it is.
• Jerkass Woobie: Unsurprising, given the unique (for Star Wars) Gray-and-Grey Morality of the game, many characters that are horrible people are also very tragic:
  • Kreia is a nihilistic jerk, and her obsessive hatred of the Force could destroy the universe itself, but she despises the Force because of the wrong it has done to her and the galaxy itself, and she suffered beatings and implied rape at the hands of her former pupil Darth Sion.
  • Despite being a Hate Sink, Atris is surprisingly pitiable, as she had wanted to join the Exile in the Mandalorian Wars but was too afraid to defy the Council. Then, the Jedi Enclave on Dantooine was destroyed by Malak, which sent her into a Heroic BSoD. Finally, after the combined traumas of the Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War, she came to saw the Jedi Order as a Broken Pedestal and resolved to do whatever she thought was necessary to save the galaxy.
  • Atton Rand is a huge jackass who also served as an elite Sith operative with a strong hatred for Jedi, but between the way the Republic and the Jedi abandoned him and his guilt over the last Jedi he killed, he is surprisingly tragic.
  • Darth Sion is as cruel and ruthless as most Sith Lords, and is implied to be a rapist, but it's difficult not to feel sorry for him in his final speech where he describes the constant pain he feels as a result of using the Force to crudely stitch together his collapsing body, which only works only because of his burning hatred, meaning that if he tried to sway from the dark side of the Force, he would die. You can convince him to let go, thankfully.
  • Darth Nihilus is a horrific Empty Shell Humanoid Abomination that threatens to absorb and destroy reality itself, but he was turned into a mindless Force vampire as a result of being horribly traumatized by Malachor V, and it's unclear how much influence he had into being turned into the thing that he is.
• Jerks Are Worse Than Villains: The Sith Triumvirate are extremely dangerous villains that must be stopped, but they all have cool sides and tragic backgrounds. The most loathsome characters, however, are Coortha. The slimy Peragus miner that tries to sell you to The Exchange for a huge bounty, but ends up being manipulated by a droid, resulting with the death of almost everyone in the facility. The other is Atris. The cartoonishly self-righteous "Jedi" whom you have to endure a long scene where she rubs her imagined moral superiority to your face.
• Love to Hate: Heroic variation. Master Vrook returns from the first KOTOR and has his Jerkass tendencies taken up to eleven. While this makes him an extremely unlikeable character, many fans consider Ed Asner to have done an amazing job at portraying this Grumpy Old Man Ungrateful Bastard, and end up loving just how much they hate him.
• Low-Tier Letdown:
  • Although the Disciple makes an excellent soldier and Jedi Consular, he is unfavorably compared to the Handmaiden because of the extra perk she gives the Exile (allowing the Exile's Wisdom bonus to be applied to his AC) is miles above what he can do (allowing the Exile to restore her Force to full anytime she's not in battle). It certainly doesn't help that Kreia can already fulfill the role of the party's Jedi Consular, but better due to her low starting level and immediately beginning as a Consular, giving her access to more Force powers in the long-run. She also gets forced into the party more often. The only thing the Disciple has over the Handmaiden is that he can have more force powers due to being made a jedi at a lower level.
  • Hanharr. Some people do enjoy him as a character, but others feel that between him and Mira, Mira wins out due to her unique gimmicks (missiles, grenades, Jedi potential) and pretty much everything Hanharr can do Mandalore can also do. Mandalore is also required at several parts of the game, and while the game's leveling system means Hanharr won't be left behind, he's often seen as more "replaceable" than Mandalore.
  • Bao-Dur is arguably the least effective companion to make a Jedi, due to his inability to wear robes or the few armors that don't restrict Force powers. His focus towards tech skills, lower hit points, and the fact that using a lightsaber prevents him from using his barrier breaking ability, make him a less viable Guardian than Handmaiden overall.
  • G0-T0 is basically a dark-sided T3-M4 with an aggravating personality and useless in battle. His unique perk which lets him distract or convert droids has very limited use, since the vast majority of the droids you have to deal with in the game are on Nar Shaddaa and thus dealt with before he joins.
• Magnificent Bitch: Kreia, formerly Darth Traya, is a former Jedi historian turned Sith Lord. Upon meeting the Exile after being stripped of power and position, Kreia spends the entire game manipulating the Exile into serving her plans, while having her form bonds with her comrades so Kreia can exploit them while also blackmailing and manipulating their companions as well. In order to eliminate her former student Darth Nihilius, Kreia has him drawn to the world of Telos so the Exile, the only one capable, is able to destroy him. Reclaiming the mantle of Darth Traya, Kreia takes over the Sith once again with sheer force of will and her immense strength, revealing that her plan is to kill the Force itself while also strengthening the Exile to change the course of the galaxy. Even upon defeat, Kreia accepts her loss with grace, while giving the Exile the final pieces necessary to confront the True Sith Empire past the Unknown Regions.
• Memetic Mutation:
  • "APATHY IS DEATH." ^ExplanationOne memorable moment in Ludo Kressh's tomb on Korriban involves being forced to choose between Kreia or your companions, with the knowledge that she's a Dark Jedi. Trying to shrug off the illusion has everyone echo this line and turn hostile.
  • Influence Lost: Kreia ^ExplanationKreia is rather infamous for her tendency to criticize the player for their choices. Quite a few players were irritated with her approach and believe that she is determined to harangue the Exile no matter what they do. That reputation might not be entirely deserved, as there are ways to gain influence with Kreia — sometimes all you need to do is say that you will consider her opinion — but that doesn't stop the fanbase from creating memes regarding her unreasonable standards.
    • Influence Gained: Kreia ^ExplanationIt is possible, and even likely, to both gain and lose influence with Kreia within the same conversation, encouraging the idea that her standards concerning the Exile are demanding and unreasonable, when not absurd.
  • You will not erode my will! [You have eroded Sion's will.] ^ExplanationThe penultimate boss fight against Darth Sion requires you to undermine his seething fury (which makes him Nigh-Invulnerable through The Power of Hate) by talking to him between bouts of fighting. The first time you try this he will call out your attempt and claim you "will not erode my will" - followed immediately by a popup telling you that you have, indeed, eroded his will.
  • Jedi Jesus or Darth Jesus ^ExplanationOne of the face options for a male Exile looks a lot like the European portrayals of Jesus Christ.
• Misaimed Fandom:
  • Taking everything Kreia said about Revan as fact. Certainly, Revan was more complicated than the Jedi claim in the games, but you have to keep in mind that you're getting this story from someone who lied to you on your first meeting, ruthlessly manipulates your party members through emotional blackmail and Mind Rape, is extremely biased when it comes to Revan given that he was one of her best and most favourite pupils, and calls herself the Lord of Betrayal with pride. While the evidence certainly supports Revan going for something more complex than standard world domination (it is a fact that Revan's conquest was rather surgical, keeping the infrastructure of the Republic intact),^note Which Star Wars: The Old Republic explained with the presence of the True Sith Empire in the Unknown Regions: Revan planned to use the resources and infrastructure of the conquered Republic to defeat Emperor Vitiate before Darth Malak turned Starscream on him. it's still wise to view her interpretation of Revan's fall with a critical eye.
  • The same goes with people who accept all of Kreia's philosophies regarding the Star Wars universe and the Force along with its associated users as gospel, despite the fact she's a notorious liar and even maybe not completely on her rocker (not only because she learned in Trayus' living hell and was tortured by Sion and Nihilus, but also because she seems chillingly fine with the possibility that destroying the Force could kill every living being in the universe). This was not helped by Chris Avellone's admitted willingness to using her as a mouthpiece for his highly critical views on Star Wars. While she is certainly right about how one shouldn't be dogmatically stupid about using a powerful energy field and trying to paint it completely black and white, the problem is that some people have blindly accepted some of her opinions as fact (for instance, calling all Jedi Knight Templars who don't know what they're doing, which is obviously not true for most of them).
• Moral Event Horizon: Go here.
• Narm:
  • The flashback to the Exile's trial loses some of its seriousness by the fact that the Jedi Masters spend the entire scene staring straight ahead—not even turning their heads to look each other as they discuss the Exile—making them come off as quite droid-like.
  • The "Apathy is death" scene is wrecked somewhat by HK-47's delivery "Apaaaaaaaaaaathhhhhhyyyyyyyy issssssssss deeeeeeeeath" in a sort of "ooga-booga" tone of voice.
• Never Live It Down:
  • Kreia's quirkiest dialogue pieces are so known and mocked that they have caused many people to stereotype her, often stopping at the impression that she's just an unpleasable nihilist who goes around insisting that the Force is evil and/or that Jedi and Sith are the same crap. While this description is admittedly not unforgivably far from reality, it goes without saying it also both misses and misunderstands a lot of what Kreia really says, especially given that it is never clear whether she is telling the truth or just telling you what she wants you to believe at that moment - which, depending on the interpretation, can change completely the concept of her and her message.
  • The Disciple's Sarcasm Blindness during one scene, and being a "Jedi fanboy". Fandom forgets that he actually figured out Revan's strategy before Kreia forces him to forget and the fact that he is clearly very bitter about the Jedi; there's even a dialogue option for "what's your problem with the Jedi?" and he has a lengthy spiel about how they're often arrogant and their teachings are fundamentally flawed. Yes, his behavior towards the Exile can be a little fawning, but keep in mind that she's the one who the Jedi kicked out of the order. Fan works tend to portray him as a naive and nerdy doofus because of this. Much of this may be the result of players preferring to play as a male Exile, who get to recruit the Handmaiden instead of him, where you only have one (albeit fairly lengthy) interaction with the Disciple where, because you don't get to push deeper and figure out his real feelings, he does come off closer to being a Jedi sycophant, including lines where he entertains the notion that the Jedi don't always do the right thing but brushes it off because they're "probably" doing it for the greater good.
  • Similarly, the Exile has a few moments of not being up on current events or seeming kinda sheltered. There are also several options to get Light Side points that amount to Good Is Dumb. This has lead to a lot of fics that cast her (it's always the female Exile) as The Ingenue who needs guidance on the pleasures of life from Atton.
• Nightmare Retardant:
  • The explanation for how the crew on the Peragus facility died loses a lot of fear factor from an HK-50 describing it.
  • The Sith holocrons in Atris' sanctuary would have been scary if they didn't sound like pissed-off Germans.
• Polished Port: After a massive update, the Steam release became the definitive version. It has native widescreen support, native X-Input support, the FPS cap was removed, and Steam Workshop support made it extremely easy to install the Restored Content mod.
• Porting Disaster: The Switch version is prone to crashing, including a Game-Breaking Bug that guaranteed a crash upon reaching Onderon (which was eventually fixed), and was advertised as getting the Restored Content mod as free DLC before that was unceremoniously cancelled.
• Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: T3-M4. In the first game, his near-sole purpose was to unlock a door on Taris, and his stats were pitiful compared to other squadmates. In this game, he not only saves the Ebon Hawk after it's left derelict, but also can be influenced and have much more "dialogue" commenting on the status of the ship, due to developing personality quirks. Your repairs on T3 can also give him enough stat boosts to make him a very hardy droid companion. It's even more apparent when you play the M4-78 EP mod (which restores a cut planet), where T3-M4 can potentially save the droid inhabitants and be regarded as a hero.
• Rooting for the Empire: It's a hot topic of debate as to if Kreia may have been right. If she miscalculated, it could have destroyed life in the galaxy and turned any possible survivor into something like the Yuuzhan Vong. If she was right, however, then defeating her doomed the galaxy to being controlled by the Force, forever allowing the galaxy to use it as a crutch and for new generations of Jedi and Sith to set fire to the galaxy using its power.
• Scrappy Mechanic:
  • Random loot and random items sold at the shops. How wonderful, our mighty Sith Lord finds yet another yellow crystal for his lightsaber! Fourth time in a row this is!
  • Like the first game, buying and selling an item of a value higher than a threshold will trigger an annoying pop-up asking you to confirm the transaction.
  • Buying an item will bump you back at the top of list and select the very first item. Since you can only buy one item at a time, this can easily drive you crazy if you need to buy several items of the the same type.
• Slow-Paced Beginning: The game gets off to a less than stellar start with an incredibly linear Prolonged Prologue on the Peragus mining colony that takes in excess of three hours to complete and has a severely limited Jedi experience, before dumping you in another prolonged prologue on Telos, albeit one with more openness and actual dialogue (but you still don't get a lightsaber until much later). It's only when planet selection becomes available that the game really picks up. It's telling that there's a mod that skips the entire Peragus facility altogether.
• Special Effect Failure: In a cutscene, the turrets on Dantooine are firing and the blaster bolts go downward, but the cannons are still aiming forward.
• That One Boss:
  • Vrook or Zez-Kai Ell on the Dark Side path, whichever you fight first, due to your lack of levels — it's likely you're just short of the threshold to access a Prestige Class which would have made the fight easier.
  • On the Light-sided endgame of Nar Shaddaa, you control Mira and must defeat Hanharr in a duel before escaping Visquis's hideout. She is specialized for ranged combat, while Hanharr himself is a melee powerhouse. Expect to perform a lot of hit-and-run. It's even worse if you plan to initiate her as a Jedi, since you'll be fighting him while intentionally underlevelled.
  • Within the endgame of Nar Shaddaa, one particularly frustrating fight is Atton against the Twin Suns. You're in an enclosed space, making hit-and-run difficult, you don't have the benefit of stealth to exploit Sneak Attack, and Atton himself is pretty weak in a straight fight. It's a fair bit easier if Atton is initiated as a Jedi, but it takes some foresight to get there before you inevitably trigger the endgame.
  • In the Restored Content Mod, instead of a cut-to-black as the Handmaiden defeats Atris' students, you get a fully controllable battle. The students are no slouch, outnumber you, and can ruin your day if you let them gang up on the Handmaiden. Bonus points if you're trying to knock them out instead of kill them.
  • Also in the Restored Content is a part in the endgame when Sion catches a fleeing Atton on Malachor V. Once again, as a solo Atton, you have to deplete Sion's health to give him the opening to escape, but at least by this point, Atton should be a capable enough combatant to make this fight not terribly difficult.
• That One Level:
  • The endgame of Nar Shaddaa, which is triggered by doing enough sidequests to earn the Exchange's attention. Once you trigger the flag you cannot turn back and tie up loose sidequests until you finish. And while you're at it, it will put the player in control of fixed parties whose members may not necessarily be as specialized for combat or even have outdated equipment. This segment also includes difficult fights such as Atton's fight against the Twin Suns, and Mira's duel against Hanharr.
    • Light Side players who are planning to make Mira a Jedi spend a segment with her at a severe disadvantage - because she spends this whole stretch of time as the only playable companion, either they hold her levels in reserve and be slaughtered repeatedly by both Hanharr AND Visquis's Ubese thugs (who WILL gang up on you, considering they come in packs of three or four at a time), or use them up and lock her out of later Force powers.
    • The Restored Content Mod adds to the pain by adding another sequence where the player controls a ragtag side party (of Atton, Mira/Hanharr, and T3) as they fight through more waves of bounty hunters on the way towards the landing pad. Atton's not the best for a straight fight, Mira would likely be underlevelled, and you might be forced to rely on the unlikely T3 to hold out in a pinch.
  • On the return to Dxun as Onderon's civil war peaks, you have to deploy a second squad to investigate Freedon Nadd's tomb while the Exile has to go to Onderon with their own squad. You get full control over which party members go to the tomb (barring Kreia, who has to go with the Exile), but it can really bite you in the back if you've been neglecting your companions' gear.
  • One segment of Malachor V puts you in control of Bao-Dur's remote with the task of finding four consoles to reactivate the mass shadow generator. The experience comes in two flavors: it's either a boring backtrack through the planet surface that you've already cleared out as the Exile, or a potentially frantic and possibly-unwinnable stealth mission since the remote has next to no means to defend itself against any storm beasts you might have missed the first time through.
  • Despite how entertaining the HK Factory can be in the restored content mod, it is also very difficult stage since you control only HK-47, and the HK-50 mobs have an enormous amount of HP and can hit very hard. You can pick up 47's ultimate weapon and armor here, but even still it takes him 4 to 5 consecutive critical hits before they go down. Don't be surprised if you go through almost your entire stock of shields and repair kits here (not like you'd have any other opportunity past this point, anyway).
    • This mission can also end up Unintentionally Unwinnable if you take the wrong turn upon entering the actual factory — a decision with absolutely no hint or warning as to what will happen later. The western path leads to the HK-51 facilities where they can be reprogrammed as HK-47 sees fit. However, take the eastern path to the HK-50 facilities first and the HK-51s awaken and turn hostile on their own, doubling the amount of enemies in the level with a second wave of even tougher killer bots that HK-47 has to defeat. Depending on how well (or badly) you did up to this point, this can easily spell doom for even a high-level character.
• That One Sidequest:
  • The Twi'lek Czerka employee escort mission in the Telos Restoration Zone base became infamous for being so buggy that players had to talk to the NPC several times to get him to follow them back to the entrance. Your reward is just a trivial light side shift.
  • Winning against the Handmaidens at sparring, without exploiting the A.I. Breaker. You must fight them one-on-one without any armor, weapons and no Force powers. The final match is against all five with any weapons and Force powers, but still without any armor. You also get only one attempt at this, not counting any Save Scumming. Good luck if you started the game as a Sentinel. Their saving throws are pretty good and their fists are deadly.
• They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character: Based on what we see of her in the flashback to Meetra Surik’s trial, Jedi Master Lonna Vash is one of the kindest Jedi Masters, on par with Kavar or perhaps even moreso. She is on the list of Jedi Masters that need to be found, and probably would have been a breath of fresh air to encounter when you have people like Vrook and Atris on the list. Unfortunately, due to her planet M4-78 getting cut from the game due to time constraints, Obsidian moved her to Korriban and had her get killed offscreen, without any scenes beyond the flashback. Definitely one of the biggest losses that the Christmas Rush caused.
• Underused Game Mechanic: The exile's precognition (and Atton's Gut Feeling) works as an Ominous Save Prompt when you're about to approach danger or a significant event flag. That said, the number of times where it kicks in throughout the game can be counted on one hand.
• The Un-Twist:
  • Oh, you mean the creepy old lady we've had with us since Peragus, who criticizes just about every light side action we do, can use dark side powers willy-nilly, claims that the main antagonists are her former students, and used to be a Sith Lord is actually the Big Bad? You don't say!
    Atton: All that talk of hatred and manipulation and standing on your own two feet? Sorry, you don't get any more "Sith" than that.
  • Possibly a subversion, as it's remarked upon at the end that this was the very idea, and indeed the player is almost chided for expecting an "I am your father" moment.
    Darth Traya: Perhaps you were expecting some surprise, for me to reveal a secret that had eluded you, something that would change your perspective of events, shatter you to your core. There is no great revelation, no great secret. There is only you.
  • The masked Mandalore who sounds and acts exactly like Canderous Ordo? Yeah, it's Canderous Ordo.
• Vindicated by History:
  • Despite favorable sales and reviews, the game was infamously divisive among fans for being a gigantic Deconstructor Fleet, which challenged just about every part of Star Wars and even role-playing games as a genre. It didn't help that it was incredibly rushed in order to meet a holiday release date, with numerous bugs and about a third of the game cut out in order to meet the release. That said, its fanbase remains solid and has continued to grow over the years, with a reputation helped by its unique perspective and narrative which challenged the perceived nature of the Force and endless cycle of war between the Jedi and Sith. The fan-created The Sith Lords Restoration Mod, which restores basically all of the game's missing content, also converted a few fans whose issues had more to do with is bugginess and the sparseness resulting from its short development cycle. The game has since been picked up by Steam, with full mod support.
  • Peragus has undergone some critical reevaluation, and while some still dislike it, there are people who find it a genuinely strong opening for its horror vibes and largely prefer it over Telos. In both camps, it at least tends to be compared favorably to Taris.
• The Woobie:
  • The Jedi Exile (a.k.a., Meetra Surik). Followed Revan to war to stop the Mandalorians. Malak wanted to kill her. Was led to Malachor V for the final battle where it turns out those who were not loyal enough were to be killed. The pain of the deaths of her allies forced her to cut herself from the Force to survive. She returns to the Jedi only to be exiled. And this is just the backstory. Jump ten years and she is one of the last Jedi. Hunted by the Sith, bounty hunters and criminal organizations. Her mentor turns out to be using her for revenge. The allies she gathers hate each other. She is ultimately captured and forced to work for the crime boss hunting her. Her life is owned by a Mandalorian bounty hunter. One of the last remaining Jedi wanted her dead before she fell to the Dark Side. The remnants of the Jedi declare her too great a threat to be allowed to retain her new found Force sense and intend to sever it. And she still returns to Telos to save it from the Sith after all of that.
  • The Handmaiden. She has five older sisters who constantly belittle her by saying she is the Last, least-skilled among them, which given their emphasis on combat ability probably means they beat her up a lot.^note When you first approach a Sister for training, she mentions that they haven't had another "target" in some time. They even verbally abuse her to strangers, and she's not happy when you tell her they've expressed this opinion. Plus she's a bastard child and a living mark of her late father's dishonor; she has no memory of her Jedi mother ^note  Worse, there are several hints that said mother might be Kreia. Yikes! and gloms onto Atris instead, a fact that Atris is quick to manipulate. And then Atris lies to the sisters that the Handmaiden ran away with the Exile, which leads to all five of them trying to kill her. And then Atris tries to kill her. Handmaiden deals with most of this pretty stoically.
  • Visas Marr is another example. She saw her whole world and everyone on it wiped out and given that she was Force-sensitive, she didn't just see it happen, she felt it too. After that she was taken as an apprentice by the same Humanoid Abomination that was responsible for the destruction. She eventually felt someone through the Force (namely the PC) that had felt the same kind of loss she had and if the PC is male, fell in love with him. However she is then told by her master to kill the PC. After you defeat her she is so broken by her time under Nihilus that she flat out begs you to kill her. Even after you spare her and let her join your crew, she reacts with confusion to the PC simply asking if she's all right, stating that it has been a long time since anyone asked her that. Her awkward response to the question implies that not only has it been long time since anyone showed her any concern, but she has spent so long under Nihilus that she is unused to even such simple kindnesses.

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