- Like Thor, Cloud possessed high strength even before his mako enhancement, being able to lift the buster sword and even wound sephiroth with it;
- He has high durability as well, having survived Sephiroth impaling him;
- And he has cross-dressed in order to save Tifa(like how Thor cross-dressed to save Freyja) with the help of a Silver-tongued partner who suggested the act in the first place.
- This troper never considered the idea until I came upon a crossover fanfic that discussed the topic and now looking back at the film it's starting to make a lot of sense. Think about it: Cloud had no Materia and even though is Geostigma had been cured, he'd realistically still be weakened after suffering from the effects of the illness of months. Sephiroth came back at full strength and yet never used anything other than his sword. No Heartless Angel, No Supernova, just trying to slice Cloud to ribbons with Masamune. Even with Zack's help, it's starting to look a lot like Sephiroth deliberately threw the fight. Why he'd do that though is anyone's guess.
- Let's look at the facts: Jenova came to the Planet on a meteor, and instantly started infecting everything around her with a virus that mutated the local lifeforms into monsters. Phaaze spreads Phazon through the universe by throwing Leviathan Seeds at planets. The Leviathans pump a nearby creature full of Phazon to transform it into a guardian for itself. As we see with Metroid Prime, the guardian can produce Phazon after the Leviathan itself dies. Therefore, Jenova is a Leviathan guardian (Perhaps a mutated Cetra, meaning Gast was right the first time), and the WEAPO Ns might be prehistoric creatures transformed by Phazon (After all, they were sleeping in the Northern Crater). And maybe...
- All that jazz about it being the Planet's life force can be [[Handwave dismissed]] with one of two explanations. One, the Cetra were wrong. Or two, it is. The Planet is just that close to becoming another Phaaze. This handily explains why Cloud has those episodes right before he sets the bombs, and why Sephiroth [[Understatement loses it]] when he finds Jenova; A few Pirate Logs say that, when unprotected, Phazon can cause hallucinations, and Mako Reactors have a ton of Mako in them. Materia is a safer, more streamlined, but weaker version of P.E.D. technology, and Limit Breaks are Hypermode.
- Think about it. He stars his own game, yes, but is pulled into Ivalice in FFT, appears in Kingdom Hearts, and somehow knows about the existence of the Xenogears... he mumbles about it in Mideel, while being bound to a chairwheel...
- Not to mention he appeared in Ehrgeiz and Chocobo Racing, has a shop in FF 8 (Theres a text only shop called Cloud's Shop in Eshtar) and Zidane mentions him in FF 9 if you look at the Buster Sword in a weapons shop.
- Not to mention he appears to have a had a sexchange and shows up as the main protagonist of FFXIII.
- Note that Cloud and Lightning are nothing alike. Lightning is closer to Squall in terms of personality and weapon choice
- Nah, it's Gilgamesh. Then again, Gilgamesh didn't appear in VII... Could Cloud and Gilgamesh be one-in-the-same?! Or in cahoots?!
- Couldn't be, as Gilgamesh wields Cloud's sword in XII, but it is clearly only a replica (if you read the kanji).
- But, it could, as he marked Zack's grave with the sword, so he needs a replica.
- Genesis was introduced for Crisis Core. But since the Compilation ends at the 20th anniversary by Word of God, and there's a Sequel Hook, this is possible. Good news for the ones who like all the Compilation, bad news for the ones who didn't like it, or only liked Crisis Core. I don't know about Denzel, but it's possible.
- Genesis, back at the end of DoC, has to fight Sephiroth imo- but if we take LOVELESS as a possible vague prediction of things to come, he will allow himself to be killed to preserve the planet, which is supposedly his mission: to be the planet's protector now. If the three friends in LOVELESS are Angeal as the hero, Genesis as the prisoner, and Sephiroth as the wanderer, that would be the way it would end according to the story. Returning to fight Sephiroth is foreshadowed in Crisis Core, notably in the Training Room scene, especially at the end, with Genesis saying "Nothing shall forestall my return" while the camera is on Sephiroth, who narrows his eyes slightly as the red light in the room lights him. Case of the Lifestream: Black indicates that Sephiroth has difficulty resurrecting himself due to the fact that his memories of himself are fragmented/gone, which was why he needed Cloud and his memories to fully manifest after Kadaj absorbed Jenova cells in Advent Children. If enough time passes between DoC and the end of the Compilation, Cloud may not remember Sephiroth well enough to help bring him back (something that perhaps not only Sephiroth but everyone else may want at this point if he keeps causing trouble from within the Lifestream, as he would be harder to defeat in the Lifestream, necessitating his physical return) but Genesis likely would, as he would be the last person left alive who really knew Sephiroth well. This passage of time may be long enough to give us at least Denzel, Marlene, and the girl with the moogle doll whose brother dies, as playable characters. Hell, maybe Priscilla too, who knows. To tie it back together to LOVELESS: Genesis will allow Sephiroth to kill him (which, since Genesis is the conduit through which Sephiroth has returned, will also destroy Sephiroth, unbeknownst to him) to save the planet, thereby achieving redemption for his past sins ("to find the end of the road in my own salvation... and your eternal slumber")("I offer thee this silent sacrifice"). The "gift of the goddess" is not an individual's immortality but the immortality of the planet itself, which is gained when both the avatar of Destruction (Sephiroth) and the avatar of Salvation (Genesis) return to the Lifestream at the same time, keeping things in a balanced state- and balance is a favorite theme in the Final Fantasy series. Note: some of the more uncommonly heard concepts here like the gift of the goddess being the planet's immortality and containing destruction and salvation are from English translations of Crisis Core guides and the like found on various web pages; I didn't make that part up. Most of it is full on WMG though, baby.
- Except that Cloud wears black in AC. He doesn't wear black leather. Other then his gloves. Maybe you are thinking of Tifa instead.
- Fixates on a single work or series and memorizes it to the exclusion of all else, making out to scorn other pieces as inferior. (In truth being too lazy/intimidated to slog through them manually, or else listening to them on audio in private.)
- Tries to appear to be reading constantly, in order to deflect any suspicion. (In his case, it's likely a matter of vanity and not wanting to appear even more inferior to Sephiroth in the eyes of the public.)
- Obsesses over said work and talks about it constantly to keep up the appearance of reading it out of favoritism, not fear.
Just wanted to get that out there.
- Being an Autistic person myself, I always thought Genesis had Asperger's Syndrome. And thought that Sephiroth was High-Functioning Autistic before his psychotic episode at Nibelheim.
- This Aspergic troper would like to debate the Genesis point. We might not be capable of empathizing with other people as much as norms, but we still have morality and, although we have a hard time showing it, we do care about our fellow man. Genesis quite clearly doesn't. I think it's more likely that he's some kind of sociopath.
- Can't he be both? Or all three?
- This Aspergic troper would like to debate the Genesis point. We might not be capable of empathizing with other people as much as norms, but we still have morality and, although we have a hard time showing it, we do care about our fellow man. Genesis quite clearly doesn't. I think it's more likely that he's some kind of sociopath.
- Don't forget the Compilation here. Advent Children, Before Crisis, Crisis Core, and Dirge of Cerberus are the major releases... arrange them chronologically, and you get Before Crisis, Crisis Core, FFVII, Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus. Now look at the first initials: BC, FFVII, AD. The original game, then, corresponds with the birth of Jesus. Somehow, I don't think it's Barret.
- Don't forget, either, that arranged with full initials, after FFVII we have 'ACDC.' All we need is a lightning strike set between those two. Clearly, after FFVII, the world is on the Highway To Hell.
- Just look at the movie. Geostigma is akin to original sin, as it is man's pride to try to eschew God in terms of power by experimenting with Jenova cells. What happens at the end? Mass baptism to wash away the sin.
- Which means Cloud is some sort of Longinus.
- Just one problem with all this... Sephiroth is batfuck
evil.
- This can be explained understanding Gnostic teachings. Summed up, Gnostics believe that knowledge is the ultimate good, and the physical world is the ultimate evil. Therfore, Jesus, as the creator, is seen as evil, where Satan is the good guy, since he brought the knowledge of sin by tempting Adam and Eve to fall. Final Fantasy games have all had large Gnostic elements in them. Whether it's Garland, who dies and is resurrected with godlike powers to destroy the world, or like in FFX, where you have to destroy God to get rid of Sin. The themes have always been present.
- Maybe Sephiroth is Lucifer? Sephiroth is a one-winged angel—a fallen angel, perhaps? Cloud came back to life, so maybe he's Jesus. Plus, Cloud does the "baptizing", taking away the Geostigma, and Jesus is known for healing people.
- But wait, there's more!
- This is simply cosmetic, but Sephiroth has white hair and glowing eyes... just like Jesus (Rev. 1:14)
- If you consider the attack Supernova, the premise would be to blow up the sun and melt the earth with extreme heat. II Peter 3:10 says Jesus will do this at His second coming.
- Sephiroth wants to destroy this earth. Jesus wants this earth of sin to end so He can remake it (Rev 21:1).
- Sephiroth mostly kills members of Shinra. Throughout the game, they point out that Shinra is destroying the earth. When Jesus returns, He is said to strike at those who destroy the earth (Rev 11:18).
- Sephiroth has numbered followers that follow him wherever he tells them to go, and he can manifest his power through them. So does Jesus (Rev 7:4-8, 14:1,4).
- Sephiroth controls these followers because he is one with his mother. Just like Jesus is one with His father (John 10:30).
- Safer Sephiroth starts the fight coming down in the clouds. You cannot physically attack him without long-range attacks, so it can be said he doesn't touch the ground. He's in clouds, and it almost looks like a chariot of clouds. These are all attributes of Jesus' second coming (Rev 1:7, I Thess. 4:16, Pslm. 104:3, Rev 14:16).
- Bugenhagen actually says at one point, though it's obscured by the awkward translation, that Holy (like Meteor) is so powerful that its use requires the user's sacrifice. Running off by herself when it was obvious Sephiroth would follow her wasn't foolishness; it was the plan.
- I just played the PC version, and it seems that this is a little clearer in the cleaned up translation. I always figured that Aeris simply pulled a Good-aligned version of "My Death Is Just the Beginning"
- I had always gotten that from it personally.
- Kinda Jossed in game, as the characters actually discuss that possibility and come to the conclusion that Aerith may have intended to come back alive after summoning Holy.
- This means then that...
- Jossed by Word of God. Aerith's death was never intended to be a Heroic Sacrifice nor did Aerith allow herself to die. Nomura and Sakaguchi both said that Aerith's death was meant to portray the brutality and senselessness of violence, not to be some sort of heartwarming noble sacrifice. It doesn't help that Aerith, after getting a sword through the back, proceeded to get a look of absolute shock on her face. She obviously wasn't intending that to happen.
- Aerith's use of Holy and the Lifestream actually seem more Jewish than Christian. Aerith saves the world by using various means to summon the power of the entire Planet to stop Meteor. It should be noted that the Planet and the Lifestream are represented as a collective consciousness/soul of all life, a concept associated more strongly with some forms of Judaism, which do not take a stance on the idea of an afterlife and believe that life comes from and returns to one homogeneous source without any kind of isolated, eternal souls.
- This means that Jenova is Satan, and Sephiroth is the Antichrist. By extension, Christians are following the false religion, and the Fangirls have the mark of the beast. (Oh, Crap!. Fundamentalists. Raging Fangirls. *cue battle mode*)
- No. Jenova/Sephiroth symbolizes the OT God and Judaism respectively (Sephiroth is the Kabbalah, and also the Sandherin who killed Jesus). Aerith on the other hand symbolized true, messianic Christianity who died for our sins (not the HERESY-screaming Christians nowadays).
- Actually, the game's reference to Kabbalah is a bit more nuanced. Sephiroth represents a being in Kabbalah who believes himself to be a god only because he is manipulated by his mother (Jenova, in this instance) and "shielded" him from the knowledge of the true deity. This is why Sephiroth initially (at the beginning of his fall) believes that he is a Cetra and that he has a divine right to rule the world. Sephiroth's name refers to the manifestations of god because his form is ironically used by the "false god" Jenova to obtain the Black Materia. Jenova is manipulating his desire to be a god (from the time when he believed it was his right as a Cetra) to gain control of the Lifestream as it originally intended. It should be noted that the Cetra represent both god and the Jews at different levels. Sephiroth's relationship to the Cetra refers to the god interpretation, which creates his god complex. Jenova's relationship to the Cetra refers both to the god interpretation through her "shielding" of Sephiroth, as explained above, and the Jewish interpretation through her impersonation and genocide of them (as seen in early Christian claims to be Jews who had simply found the Messiah, and later attempts to destroy the Jews for various reasons). Aerith, on the other hand, is a true Cetra/Jew who is killed without warning by one who once claimed to be a Cetra/Jew.
- No. Jenova/Sephiroth symbolizes the OT God and Judaism respectively (Sephiroth is the Kabbalah, and also the Sandherin who killed Jesus). Aerith on the other hand symbolized true, messianic Christianity who died for our sins (not the HERESY-screaming Christians nowadays).
- Cloud didn't baptize them in the place she dies, BUT he did baptize them in the rain she created to protect him from that sephi-clone.(The rain is theorized to be her final limit-break "Great Gospel", in the first part of the attack it rains).
- Impossible. Barret is a timelord......
- And the player by extension is also a Jesus. Heh heh heh...
- This actually makes more sense than what the expanded universe wants us to believe if you consider several facts the original game provides: 1) Jenova came to the Planet in a meteor; 2) the Black Materia has been used at least once (indicated by the wall art in the Temple of the Ancients and the fact that the Ancients felt a need to prevent the materia's use); and 3) there is only one crater on the surface the planet large enough to be caused by Meteor (discounting the one that Ultimate Weapon created and the one by Lucrecia's cave, which was caused by a much weaker impact than that of the North Crater, having simply displaced a small part of a preexisting mountain range instead of gouging into the earth and raising the land around it, which makes it unlikely to be caused by something the size of Midgar). Jenova was inside the first Meteor. The ultimate destructive magic isn't just a kinetic force; it is a virus that infects all life and absorbs the life force of the planet, ie, Jenova. Jenova was almost certainly manipulating Sephiroth to bring in "reinforcements" so it could finish its destruction of this world and move on to greener pastures. Every one of Sephiroth's bodies after Nibleheim was built from Jenova cells, and all of Sephiroth's power is derived from his fetal connection with Jenova (the Mako inserted into him is insufficient to distinguish him from any other SOLDIER). Thus, it make no sense that Sephiroth could have the power to control Jenova, and the inverse scenario is not only more likely, but built into the plot of the game.
- Both of them suck. Hojo was the real Big Bad.
- Hojo was the 'human' enemy but Jenova is more akin to a cosmic source of all this insanity.
- So in short, Jenova is the Batman, and is using Sephiroth so she can get her plans of infecting the world back on track. It makes perfect sense, actually.
- This WMG makes perfect sense to me for one reason only: Sephiroth, the arrogant jerk who spent half the game gloating and spouting madness doesn't have a final boss speech. Kefka had a legendary speech, and even Ultimecia got one while the player tried to keep a straight face at her speech impediment - but Sephiroth just floats there and shoots energy at you? No. He doesn't talk because that's not Sephiroth. That's Jenova, and Jenova doesn't need to have her puppet babble on anymore when she's moments from parasitically taking over the world.
- In that case... why didn't Jenova get a Final Boss Speech then?
- Same reason she gets exactly 1 sentence in the entire game. No ego. No need to say anything unless it's a means to an end. By the final boss she's pretty much won. In-character for her to shut up and start blasting, but definitely not for Sephiroth the boasty boaster who never stops boasting.
- Not to mention that Sephiroth's descent into villainy was very sudden. He was pretty much a normal soldier before he went to Nibelheim and got in close proximity to Jenovah. It's just too damn convenient for him to go nutty right then.
- We know that Jenovah can mess with people's minds and make them see/believe false things. We know that people with Jenovah in their bodies can be controlled. And Sephiroth has had Jenovah cells inside him since before he was born. This WMG is my preferred theory simply because everything in the game itself pointed to it.
- This troper was always under the impression that the above was true until Sephiroth fell into the lifestream. Jenova probably did trigger his snap while throwing all the other misinformation on top of it, but once Sephiroth fell into the Lifestream, he was in control. After all, the player is chasing Jenova around the entire world (who just happens to be taking his form) and Jenova appears to be trying to get to Sephiroth, which just sort of makes it a Sephiroth Reunion instead of a Jenova Reunion.
- Well, technically Jenova's Head was also at the Northern Crater. For all we know, the Sephiroth clones and Jenova's Body was actually trying to reach Jenova's Head, not Sephiroth.
- Not for all we know. We do know better. Hojo TELLS us that it is because Sephiroth is the one controlling events. And we never get an opposing opinion or contradicting facts.
- On the flip side, the fact your using Hojo as a plausible explanation already makes suspect. Dude was crazy, man, and obsessed over Sephiroth. Not exactly the most objective person to ask. Not to mention the exist of Jenova-SYNTHESIS, who is not part of Bizzaro-Sephiroth at all.
- Regardless, Jenova actually being in control is also unlikely. She doesn't seem to have any ego at all from in-game evidence, and she might actually just be a corpse afterall. Therefore, the most likely explanation seems to be a third option, altogether.
- I always thought it was odd that Jenova broke out that specific night when cloud etc. were in the building. Maybe it was a coincidence, but I think either cloud being there or her breaking out was a factor dependent on the other (because of them being so genetically connected due to the experiments with Jenova cells that Cloud was subjected to) and perhaps this event was what launched the whole Sephiroth/Jenova subplot/mainplot on top of Shinra/Avalanche/the planet's efforts.
- Except you see him use the bladed side during gameplay.
- Either way, it's a 7-foot-long piece of metal. OF COURSE it does something. It's just that that something happens to involve smashing monsters' skulls open.
- Related WMG: The Buster Sword is a reverse-edged blade. Zack (and Cloud) always use the blunt side.
- Or, at that point in the game, Zack himself is so effin' powerful that using a beach umbrella wields the same damage effect as the Buster Sword.
- Exactly! Zack and Cloud's Limit Breaks don't come from the Buster Sword, they come from Zack and Cloud. Who are superhuman. Which is why Cloud can still use his Limit Breaks with the First Tsurugi and Zack can do them with a dammed umbrella.
- This WMG actually works really well with a bit of Gameplay and Story Integration. The Buster Sword is Cloud's weakest (non-joke) weapon, and is usually replaced by the player at the first opportunity. There's really nothing special about it besides its symbolism.
- Don't forget— It's solution to a lesser amount of people dying is to summon two other bioweapons: One to kill every living thing in sight, and the other to round up the collected lifeblood so it can hitch a ride on the Cosmic Train and find another planet to inhabit, while the previous one wastes away as a cold forgotten rock. Which... wait... wasn't that Jenova's plan!?
- 'Cept Jenova targets inhabited Planets and consumes them. Omega would just search for another rock to seed with the Lifestream and start from scratch.
- This is the Planet we're talking about, it doesn't matter if everything dies as long as the Lifestream and Planet survives. Do you care about the lives of the bacteria in your body? It's very likely the Planet suffers from Blue-and-Orange Morality.
- Minerva in Crisis Core is possibly the manifestation of this.
- As an addendum to my own theory a second Evil Genius, with a god-like persona and self image along the power to back it up, used his scientific genius to provide his own genetic contribution to proto-Jenova. And thus, along with Davros, the Tiger-Force at the core of all things has brought devastation to that once lush and peaceful planet. He has turned the planet into a cosmic sewer and has fouled paradise beyond repair.
- The presence of cellphones sort of borks that. Perhaps they merely never discovered gunpowder until quite late.
- Also, note that prior to Mako energy human civilisation's primary fuel source was coal, and afterwards they discover this crazy thing called gasoline.
- It's not Earth. They took a somewhat different technological path due to the availability of Mako. Also, maybe swords work better against some of the monsters roaming the place (although Barret's arm cannon disputes this...)
- Or the presence of magic for long-range attacks decreases the effectiveness of using long-range weapons in the first place.
Since Sephiroth is part of the party during the flashback, Final Fantasy VII is the story of Cloud's struggle within himself.
- Well that would tie in well with Kingdom Hearts I and II, where Cloud refers to Sephiroth as his "inner darkness."
- Aerith is an obvious
Purity Sue. She can do little wrong, she has the only Holy materia, her final limit break is Great Gospel, she's Too Good for this Sinful Earth, and her death saves the world. So yeah...
- Actually, Aerith is a
Purity Sue in Advent Children only, (and Kingdom Hearts series, but then again all Final Fantasy characters are toned down by this series, to the fans annoyance), and that's Clouds imagination, how Cloud sees her, possibly. She has this Fatal Flaw, which I consider it enough for her not to be in the Mary Sue territory, overconfidence ("I can save Tifa on my own"(from Don Corneo), "I was raised in the slums, I'm used to danger"... "I can save the world on my own, what can possibly happen"). But according to your theory she's a pretty decent fanfic writer(the plot is amazing), despite some inaccuracies.
- Actually, Aerith is a
- Sephiroth is a
Villain Stu, which is why he is the one to slay Aerith. While Aerith does not quite strike up a romance with our favorite white-haired pretty boy, one can now see why so many fangirls are in lust with Sephiroth. However, an Aerith/Sephiroth shipper would notice that they are Defecting for Love. Zack, and by extension Cloud, are on the other hand merely Aerith's toyboys.
- Zack and Cloud, her boytoys? Sure, why not. She always seem to find herself in a Love Triangle, whatever the adaption. But Sephiroth a
Villain Stu... he has Character Development (doesn't have to be always positive) through the Compilation, to separate him from a Marty Stu.
- Zack and Cloud, her boytoys? Sure, why not. She always seem to find herself in a Love Triangle, whatever the adaption. But Sephiroth a
- Quite a few inadequacies with the world of FFVII and its cultures can be directly attributed to Aerith's laziness in designing the world as well as her fascination with Japan (Wutai), native American cultures (Cosmo Canyon), and large cities (Midgard).
- She's creating her own world map, (Midgar is spelled without the "d").
- Related to the large cities item, Aerith the Writer clearly knows nothing of farms or animal breeding, as shown by the nightmarish chocobo breeding segment.
- More about Aerith personally, she seems to have grown up in a large city, but enjoys natural settings. She seems also to be Christian, or to have been at least raised Christian, since Aerith the Sue hangs out in churches a lot and uses the Great Gospel (see above). If Aerith Gainsborough is her real name, then one can also assume English ancestry (with possible American citizenship).
- Could also explain why, despite the world being completely different than Earth, during Sephiroth's Supernova attack it is revealed to orbit the same sun as Mercury, Pluto, Mars, etc. She's simply imagining the Earth in a different future than hers.
Related to some theories that Cloud is the nexus of Square games (among other things), Aerith, since she presumably created Cloud, is the creator of all of these fictional works. Naturally, they feature the same characteristics of an amateur writer.
- The early Final Fantasy games were probably written by Aerith as a child, since they have relatively simple settings and plots.
- This must mean that the remakes were really Aerith's rewrites of her old stories.
- Kingdom Hearts was obviously a Disney fanfic in which Aerith yielded to the temptation of including her own original works and characters (or Sues). From this, one can glean the enthusiasm that Aerith harbors for Disney properties.
- Xenogears was clearly the result of discovering coffee and/or "certain substances" while attending one's first philosophy/comparative religion classes at one's liberal arts school. By extension, Final Fantasy Tactics was the result of a government/politics or history class. Aerith is/was an Arts & Humanities major. She should take more economics classes.
- While at her college, she persuaded a few of her friends to create a student film. Though the film was unfinished, Aerith later wrote a characteristic work based on the short film. From the differences in the student film and the analogous scene in the work, one can guess that the other students had some input on the film. One can only guess how good the film would have been had work on it not ceased due to finals. (See the ending of the FFVIII demo disc.)
- Final Fantasy IX was an homage to her earlier works and a means of assuaging her nostalgia during a dull summer vacation.
- Final Fantasy X was an assignment for her first writing class, assisted by more "certain substances." Naturally, she received a failing grade.
- Final Fantasy X-2, on the other hand, was not written by Aerith at all, but by her Brother (capital intended).
- What about 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, Crystal chronicles, the three movies and all the other spinoffs?
- As for Chrono Trigger... Yeah, I've got nothing. Probably more "certain substances," but definitely Aerith, since Lucca appears in an early area in Xenogears. Maybe Aerith didn't take that history class after all.
tl;dr: Aerith is the real owner of Square Enix.
- He proposed breeding Aerith and Red XIII so they could have specimen that wouldn't die before their research was completed. Aside from the sheer stupidity of trying to breed a humanoid and whatever Red XIII is, the obvious solution to this problem is to preserve a DNA sample.
- Red XIII's Grandpa was human and presumably his blood relative, so there is a good possibility his species can cross-breed with others. I think Hojo knew what he was doing.
- Correction: The person Red XIII happened to refer to as "Grandpa" was human. There's nothing indicating that he is actually related to him. How many kids call an un-related friend of the family something like "Uncle Bob"?
- John Connor did. And now he knows why you cry. But he can't.
- His genetic engineering program consisted of injecting people (and one embryo) with cells to see what would happen. Not parts of Jenova's DNA, but the entire cell. If Hojo knew that Jenova's cells were viral and that injecting the whole cell would actually be an effective way of delivering her DNA into the host, he should have realized that this was probably not a Cetra and that injecting people willy-nilly with an unknown virus might not be such a good idea. If he didn't know, then Hojo fails biology forever, because injecting normal cells won't do anything.
- I think that he knew quite well that she/he/it was no cetra and how bad an idea it was. Going from that conclusion, he did it anyway because he's an f'n psychopath.
- Of course he did, there's a 100% chance that he watched Dr. Gast's tapes where Ifalna says Jenova wasn't a Cetra. You'll not he also knows about the WEAPONs (another topic on one of Gast's tapes) whereas none of the other people seem to be aware such a thing existed, even in folklore and legend.
- In fact, in Crisis Core, he actually calls Hollander an idiot for believing that she is one.
- In the original game, as well as a DMW flashback in Crisis Core, Sephiroth said this regarding Hojo in Nibelheim "A man once told me never to use an unscientific term such as 'mysterious power'! It shouldn't even be called 'magic'! I still remember how angry he was." "Hojo of Shinra, Inc. ... An inexperienced man assigned to take over the work of a great scientist. He was a walking mass of complexes." Sephiroth clearly thinks that Hojo is a hack. I would say that this isn't WMG, it's canon.
- He proposed breeding Aerith and Red XIII so they could have specimen that wouldn't die before their research was completed. Aside from the sheer stupidity of trying to breed a humanoid and whatever Red XIII is, the obvious solution to this problem is to preserve a DNA sample.
When Aerith dies we see Cloud draw his sword and the rest of his party yells at him to stop, but Cloud in fact kills Aerith! He simply imagines seeing Sephiroth kill her. Later, when Cloud acquires the Black Materia in the Northern Crater, he disappears from the party for a while, during which Meteor appears; clearly Cloud was responsible for this too. Upon his return from this situation he is found in a highly catatonic state, which he recovers from only during the sequence within his own mind, where he finally comes to terms with the fact that he killed Sephiroth, and he is dead. The party returns to the Northern Crater and finally defeats the reunited Jenova, but this causes him to relapse and he has illusions of fighting Sephiroth while freeing Holy, but after the final battle Cloud has a vision. This is the final duel with the shirtless Sephiroth at the end, which takes place entirely within Cloud’s own mind, in which he is empowered to finally destroy the Sephiroth within himself once and for all (represented by him performing the ludicrously overpowered Omnislash on him) Only then, at the very end, is Cloud finally free from his delusions.
- This would all fit in perfectly with the Kingdom Hearts explanation of Sephiroth being Cloud's inner darkness.
- But... why would they continue to follow him around in his party if he just killed Aeris right in front of them?
- The original leader of this AVALANCHE was Barret, a guy who didn't hesitate to give the thing that "Sephiroth" wanted directly to the only person on the party who can be mind controlled by the alleged "Sephiroth." Clearly, Wisdom was their dump stat.
- Gast had used Jenova cells in developing Sephiroth, making his body easier to control. After dying, the cells took over. The clones heard the call from the main body, but since they were made by Hojo, not Gast, they were weak (with perhaps one or two exceptions). The weaker clones were used as tools to free the original, then cast aside. They were never going to "join" with anything.
- Sephiroth was only mad about the whole "out-evolving" thing because he thought that Jenova (who he thought was his mother) was an Ancient and it sort of became a you killed my father, prepare to die. After he fell into the Lifestream and figured everything out, he probably didn't care because he learned Jenova was neither his mother or a Cetra. Also, even if that wasn't so, working with Jenova to destroy the world isn't that outlandish since there's only 1 Cetra left, and he probably thinks he's giving humans their just desserts by unleashing the cataclysm that should have destroyed them instead of the Cetra.
- But Sephiroth seems to be like somebody from the NGE-verse sent to the FFVII verse. Dysfunctional mommy issues, Kabbalistic symbolism, Instrumentality plot involving Eldritch Abominations, and so on...
- It seems that both Sephiroth and Cloud symbolize Shinji's conflicting personalities, Cloud being the player whose responsibility is to save everyone, Sephiroth being the internalization of Gendo Ikari (kabbalist, instrumentality, urge to hijack and become God, and so on).

- I always assumed Phoenix Down or Revive was used to resuscitate someone who was just Mostly Dead. Soft turns you back into a person but if your statue was damaged too heavily in the mean time you're screwed. Trying to Soft the father and then Revive him wouldn't work because he's already too far gone by that point. Weathering alone would mean he doesn't have any skin anymore. The worst we see the main characters get is knocked around a little or lightly fried. Plus, there isn't an item to restore lost limbs, or recover someone's flesh that has decomposed.
- Whereas I always assumed that Soft and Revive only work on people who want to come back, a la D&D's Raise Dead. Aeris felt that she'd finished her role and didn't have any desire to respond to Phoenix Down, and Nanaki's father had moved on.
- One crossover fanfic offers the explanation that Sephiroth had actually laced his sword with a poison that negates the effects of Soft and Revive.
When Sephiroth approached Jenova at the reactor, he was in close enough proximity to pick up on her alien emotions and instincts. This coupled with what he learned at the mansion triggered a psychotic episode.
When Sephiroth and Jenova merged in the lifestream, Jenova's alien instincts were combined with Sephiroth's human experience. His instinct now told him to get into the lifestream. His human mind worked out that if he did this, he would essentially become a god. That was rationalization enough for him. His schizophrenia, now in full swing thanks to the trauma, gave him the superiority complex needed not to care about destroying the 'inferior' humans in the process. In his mind they had wronged him; they deserved to die anyway.
So, full blame can't really be pinned on either one. Jenova had the drive and the instinct; Sephiroth had the means and the mind to carry it out.
- I thought this was more or less the canon of what happened.
- Well, not sure about the Schizophrenia part, even though Sephiroth does act... kinda like a paranoid schizophrenic. But regardless, he DOES have Jenova Cells that somehow mutated inside him. Those probably are the parts of him that gave him the Jenova Instinct to start to a family barbecue on the Planet.
- Which brings up an interesting bit of her character, if it's true. It's one thing to believe she went to the Ancient city thinking she might die. It's quite another if she's seen the future and knows that she's going to die, but does it anyway.
- This may have only been half-serious at the time, but the Final Fantasy VII Remake implies this may have been what actually happened, and shows the consequences of Aerith trying to Screw Destiny.
- Ha! Semantic nonsense!
- There's a HUGE difference!!
- This actually makes sense, as each generation of Lavos goes to a planet, incorporates the DNA of all creatures into it, then breeds more with the beneficial DNA bred into them. The vastly different looks and a few properties like regeneration of Jenova and Lavos can easily be explained by their ancestors each going to a different set of planets and thus acquired vastly different DNA.
Crap, the Planet is sentient, and it's pissed off at us. Related to the WMG up above, they realize that the Planet has been trying to kill them but don't know exactly why. In an effort to appease it, they slowly wean themselves of technology, including the alternative methods like fossil fuels, and turn their attentions to learning the abilities they had originally evolved out of using. That is to say, Midgar becomes a Neo-Cetra civilization. It's a lot harder to piss off a Planet when you know what its problem is. Alternately, they could have realized
Crap, all of these bad things are happening in Midgar. We're out of here. Is there a trope for that? Simply put, the residents move out of Midgar and scatter to the corners of the Earth, to other less populated towns. So, maybe Choco Billy has new hands helping him in his farm, or Kalm gets a burst of people to fill in its latest expansion (courtesy of Dirge of Cerberus), or Mideel gets rebuilt, leaving the Planet alone to handle turning Midgar back into... whatever that is.
- An additional possibility: They continued the space program, leaving the Planet to the Lifestream.
- The other party members are obviously long dead by then, so it could just be taken to mean that the planet eventually recovered and became a paradise.
Notice how characters are perfectly fine up until they reach quarter HP. Then they kind of hunker down, as if wounded. A theory runs that this is due to the characters simply not being injured until this point: a skilled warrior may have deflected all those nasty looking physical attacks while a strong spirit could have resisted the spells. As for a MISS, that could be put down to the character brushing the attack aside so easily they aren't affected. This also explains how even the weakest enemies always cause 1 damage: even the strongest warrior will get ground down eventually, and the characters aren't gaining supernatural strength, they're just tougher and better at defending, and used to battle-trauma due to having fought so many times.
This willingness to fight leads me onto the supernova theory. The characters have apparently just seen the end of the world. So cue Heroic BSoD. They believe they've failed. This hits so hard that they lose the will to fight on and the next blow will kill them as they have no will to defend themselves. This is why the attack registers a percentage loss, rather than a fixed amount of damage for defence to factor in. Healing spells have two elements: they heal the physical wounds, this is true. However, they also cure mental anguishes, bolstering spirits, restoring concentration and just generally acting as rallying cries. However, the world isn't destroyed really, Sephiroth was using an illusion. This is why he can use the attack again, the characters fall for it again not because they've suddenly got the Idiot Ball but because they can't know for sure if Sephiroth was for real this time.
- Well, modern takes on religion are less of the totalitarian "HERESY"-declaring bureaucrats of olden days and more in line with individualist spirituality, like the New Age and neopagan religions.
- If you try to see it, Jenova and Omega have the same motive: suck out the lifestream, get onto space.
- Alternatively, Jenova is the Omega WEAPON of another planet. It was shown that the WEAPON's are a little simplistic, possibly to the point of being 'programing' rather then sentient. So, Jen Omega had the directive of 'collect the souls, find a new planet to put those souls on, then collect again'. The Cetra came from another world, right? So who knows how many worlds they terraformed before settling on this one. Each one could have it's own stable of WEAPONS. It would also make sense that they would be within traveling distance of eachother, if the Cetra....traveled that distance. As to the 'put the souls on the new planet' directive...a lot of what we see her doing if corrupting and mutating the existing life. It could just be incompatibility, rather then malice on her part. It'd be like if you tried to put plant DNA into a person. Plants arn't evil, we just can't gentically (or soul-y) coexist. The malice came when Seph went off the deep end and took over. After all that, Reunion. Collect all the souls.
Spin a globe, pick a spot on it, wipe it off the face of the Planet. A forced attempt at speeding up the cycle of life, putting the Lifestream back into the Planet for them to be able to turn it into Mako. Nibelheim? Exactly as planned. Corel? It´s a ghost town for a reason. Mideel? ... They didn't get far enough to kill off the people there, but they were about to!
- One more chance and Shinra would have death camps and gas chambers. Or perhaps they do already have those...
- Natch. They put Tifa in one.
- Besides all the Magitek, Sephiroth is Terra, who both find out that the Empire/Shinra is experimenting on and drawing power from their parents. Terra decides to fight against them and bring unity back between humans and espers; Sephiroth decides humans doesn't deserve to live and plots to become part of the Planet to destroy them.
- Cloud is Celes, who are both betrayed by the empire they work for and tortured. While Celes decides to fight them with her new friends, Cloud suffers from the traumatizing experience, losing his sense of identity, going into a coma when he learns the truth, and nearly dies.
- Yuffie is Shadow, deconstructing the Highly-Visible Ninja trope—- Shadow is still pretty awesome and ninja-like, while Yuffie is a pretty terrible ninja unless you stop paying attention to her.
- And AVALANCHE is The resistance- A Ragtag Bunch of Misfits with a small percentage of trained fighters. In FFVI- La Résistance makes it possible for the day to be saved! In FFVII- La Résistance is mercilessly slaughtered thanks to a novice error! The interesting thing, though, is the Reconstruction zig-zagging towards the end and in Advent Children- In FFVI, The world is shattered twice over, and the world is poisoned, but life goes on. In FFVII, the world-shattering plot is beaten back, the soul of the land and the people are poisoned, and it all goes away thanks to application of more brute force and Miracle-Cure (149gil at your nearest baptismal spring)!
- The only character who thinks he's The Chosen One is Sephiroth.
- The use of what is essentially magic used as technology was somewhat deconstructed in FFVI (basically just to the effect of "MAGITEK BAD!"), but even more so here, where magic as technology is what allowed the world to industrialize. Unlike creating the futuristic utopia that harnessing magic creates in so many other JRPGs, this society reflects the period of industrialization, especially in the pollution and class stratification elements.
- The EV As are cloned from Lilith, while the Weapons come from the Planet. While according to Evangelion, all life a.k.a. The Lifestream came from Lilith, making Aerith a Rei. Jenova is more of an Adam, both are analogues for God and tried to take away the Lifestream from the planet.
- When Weiss says, "Let us go to him," he knew that Genesis was going to come get him. Hence why he wasn't too torn up about losing the fight with Vincent.
Rufus' only 'evil' things were that immediately after Meteor's revealed, he makes Barret and Tifa scapegoats for it and execute them to placate the public. Underhanded and a real dick move, yes, but they presumably would have been sentenced to execution anyway, for blowing up the reactors and killing a bunch of people at the beginning of the game. He let everyone else go free, even though they'd all been thorns in his side. So, he probably wouldn't have cared if they'd died in a fight with the Turks or anything, but he has at least enough of a sense of fair play not to have people who haven't seriously broken the law to death. All that talk about fear over money, but he actually cares about the people and the money equally. After facing down Cloud, he rarely intervenes in attacking AVALANCHE, and actually allows them to go wherever they want, as long as they continue chasing Sephiroth. It is actually a very clever strategic move on his part, as why would you waste soldiers on chasing a madman when you have 9 terrorists doing the exact same thing...
- Uncountable Jenova planets to be exact, all with lifeforms mutated beyond all unimaginable grotesqueness. Cue Cosmic Horror Story.
- Screw Advent Children, that should have been FF7's sequel material; some other JENOVAH-like creature sensing that she'd been killed and came over to investigate.
- Final Fantasy VII takes place in the Dead Space universe!
- Actually, VII is the future of X. Shin-ra, the Al Bhed kid of X-2, discovers and refines Mako energy from the Farplane with Rin's funding thanks to Yuna's short trip there. Flash forward 1000 years, and Spiran colony ships arrive at Gaia, founding civilization, and, of course, the Shin-Ra Electric Power Co. It could also serve to explain why materia benefits are so minor compared to spheres, given that over time people had forgotten how to properly use them. All the other consistency errors can be handwaved as well by assuming retcons for anything that doesn't otherwise make sense, since the prequel came out many years after, and a lot of details were considered only after the fact.
- So does that mean that the blue monster in the reactor is descended from Kimari?
fact.
During Crisis Core and Final Fantasy VII itself, the truth behind Shinra's actions come into light. Sephiroth becomes insane once he misinterprets his origins and becomes the equviliant of an Anti-Christ in the FFVII world, believing that he and Jenova should rule all. Sinners and weak ones along come together to stop the tyranny of Sephiroth and Shinra. Aerith is killed as she tries to reach out to the Planet for help, the most hopeful and Christ-like woman in the party. With grief in their hearts, the party takes up the burden of finishing things once and for all.
Redemption becomes a key core in Advent Children/Complete, with Cloud blaming himself for his weaknesses and his inability to help anyone; with help from friends and loved ones alike, he casts his burdens aside, and at the end of the film, baptizes the children of Jenova's stain with Aerith's holy water in the church. (Your take on these might be different, but I liked seeing this games and film through this perspective... almost similar to the Narnia series, in certain ways)
- Also, Word of God be damned, under this interpretation, Sephiroth being her puppet only makes sense. She possessed him during the events of Nibelheim after Cloud's battle. After defeating her One-Winged Angel copies of this Avatar, she abandons the broken body of Sephiroth, allowing Cloud to dismember him.
Whenever a materia is mastered, it spawns a new materia, which can in turn be raised to mastered, producing another new materia. Since materia are formed from the life stream, naturally, there may be a method for either materia to either produce more energy for the life stream or a reverse of the process that formed them: Mastered materia fading back into the life stream, bolstering it.
It's just a very slow process, which is why the mastered materia don't vanish during gameplay. (This may also contributed to the bag of spilling in Dirge of Cerberus, where Vincent doesn't have any of that awesome materia: They've started dissolving back into the life stream by then.)
So the world isn't doomed, it's just going to take a long time to recover.
- This makes sense when you think about Cloud's advice on what to do with mastered materia "ahem, I mean, return it to the planet." Since Sephiroth loves to go on and on about becoming one with the planet, one can only assume this means merge with the Lifestream.
- Lengthy physics lecture aside, his sword would have to be made of some very serious Unobtanium to even handle the stress associated with swinging it at the speed of sound. While easily handwaved after his death in Nibelheim (where we see his sword materializing at will), this does not explain its capabilities before that.
- Going on that, perhaps the Huge Materia are artificial (though possibly accidental) replacements for the original Crystals. They definitely look the part when they're all floating in the observatory like that.
- Barret was married. his wife's name was Myrna.
- But what about the kids who were obviously talking to her? And the mysterious phone messages to everyone in Edge?
Of course, the next theory is optional, but.....
- Doubtful; that sounds more like the Murasame.
- Well, in the same vein, Sephiroth was considered a hero. His sword might be just as much of a wolf in sheep's clothing.
- Cloud gets a sword called Murasame at some point in the game, doesn't he? Maybe the names should have been switched: Sephiroth's sword should actually have been the Murasame instead of the Masamune, and the more generic looking katana that Cloud gets would actually be the Masamune (in this case, the Masamune would not have as much significance in this game as it does in most Square games).
But consider Vincent. Unlike Hojo, Vincent qualified to be a highly competent member of the Turks. This would require him to be at peak levels of human fitness, like physical prowess, combat skills, sharp reflexes, and aptitude for battle. Considering that both Vincent and Sephiroth performed the same function, acting as highly trained operatives for Shinra, it makes sense that Vincent is a more likely candidate. But even besides that, they share more similarities than physical skill; they both have the same cold, reserved (but not wholly uncaring) personality, physical grace, and flair for the dramatic. They even look similar, both of them being nearly the same height with the same refined facial features.
Now, how could this come about? It’s pretty obvious; both Vincent and Lucrecia were attracted to one another and spent quite some time together. It’s possible that Lucrecia had an affair before or even during her relationship with Hojo. As for why Hojo would claim Sephiroth is his son, either Lucrecia kept the truth from him (if she even knew who the real father was) or Hojo claimed that he sired Sephiroth so he could lord it over others.
- This troper thought she was the only one who came up with that conclusion, think about it: the father's conflict, having to kill his son for the world's sake (like FFVII wasn't symbolic enough already). But yeah, they both have more similarities than Sephiroth with Hojo. And if you want to consider this too, Vincent might not be a scientist, but the guy is pretty intelligent too (and we can asume that Sephiroth's mental inestability is due to the experiments with Jenova's cells, and all the stress he suffered before his breakdown in Nibelheim, leading to said massacre). And compare, Sephiroth's white long hair <—-> Vincent's black long hair; Sephiroth's clear eyes <—-> Vincent's dark eyes; it's almost like an oposite (if you want to add Lucrecia's characteristics, be my guest), but at the same time they share similar traits.
- Sephiroth: Light Is Not Good , Vincent: Dark Is Not Evil
- Their weapons of choice are mirrors, too. Sephiroth: Evil sword-wielder , Vincent: Good gun-wielder
- Also consider: Vincent went through horrible tortures and experimentation, and lives with four demons he can barely control locked up in his mind, probably can't die no matter how much he wants to, and all this is after being betrayed by Lucrecia and shot. But he never renounced his basic humanity and all he thinks about is redemption. Sephiroth might have been experimented upon in the womb, but it's not like he has any memory of it, and his life prior to Nibelheim was pretty good. Everyone adores him and he even has friends despite his aloofness. But just finding out about the experiments that created him makes him freak out, though he never actually had to endure the kinds of tortures Vincent and Hojo's other "specimens" endured. He renounces his humanity and all he thinks about is destruction. This and the above contrasts all work whether they are father and son or not though.
- Could cue in a huge Heroic BSoD for Vincent if it were canon, as Mind Screw for the rest of the party (and the world). (from the same troper above)
- Vincent already had his BSOD. For thirty years. Joining the party is the ending of an epic BSOD. And the thing that bothered him most about the experiments was that it was Lucrecia's son they were being done to. It must have occured to him that he might be the father if it was at all possible, but either way, it was the child of the woman he loved. And either way, Hojo turned Sephiroth into the abomination he became and Sephiroth had to die. If it ever occured to any of his friends that he might be Sephiroth's father, I think they would have quietly filed it away under "Things I never want to think about again, much less mention in front of Vincent."
- Hell, he might even have known about it already. It would certainly make his nap in Shinra Manor make more sense, if he thought he had sired the greatest monster their world had ever known. The reason he still says Hojo is Sephy's father? It's true in the same sense that Jenova is his mother. Vincent had a son with Lucretcia, but Hojo was the one to turn him into the Sephiroth we all know. I'm starting to like this theory.
- Or rather, he slept because his 'sins' were two-fold; he failed to protect Lucrecia and his son from Hojo.
- Now that I think about it, this theory explains a lot about your first conversation with him. His immediate concern is Sephiroth, and after you tell him the story, he says that he has more sins to atone for.
- It also makes the confrontation with Weiss in Dirge of Cerberus take on new meaning: Sure, the Hojo connection is explicit, but Weiss also looks a hell of a lot like Sephiroth, and shares the same goal as him minus the Jenova aspect; in that sense, he represents both of Vincent's greatest failures, mishmashed into a single being for Vincent to beat the crap out of.
- As Weiss was spliced with Genesis's genes he does have the physical and biological part of the Jenova aspect(even if he dosen't have the other parts of that aspect) as do the rest of the colored Tsviets.
- It never occured to me playing the original game, but the way later entries in the compilation make Sephiroth look like Vincent with white hair and Lucrecia's bangs sure made me wonder.
Really makes the game Harsher in Hindsight, doesn't it?
- A lot of Japanese games have a very subtle "Nukes 'r' bad, m'kay?" message, so this makes a lot of sense.
What it means? That Kadaj (i.e humanity), can be really cruel and sometimes can look as pure evil, capable of anything, but like a child, he's doing it because he's being manipulated by Sephiroth (i.e Satan, but I like to call it evil forces), in hopes for getting love and retribution. Aerith (i.e Jesus, or God, or whatever), knowing this, that Kadaj actually doesn't have a mother and might never get the love he desperately wants, forgives him pretending to be his beloved "mother" (also Cloud, that can be viewed as a Aerith's envoy, like the rest of the party. Or Peter and the apostles, for church fans) and ensures him that he will be loved, calming him, and allowing him to rest in peace: In resume, Death Equals Redemption, and humanity is forgiven for it's actions in it , because humanity is God's children and she/he loves them, no matter what.
Also, the rain is his demise can ve interpreted as said redemption, peace, forgiveness and/or happiness in form of baptism (this troper doesn't like church, this is merely an anthropologist and objective analysis).
Don't forget Rufus Shinra, he has a part in here too. He might represent money and executive power's corrupting and manipulative force in mankind.
That's how I see Kadaj's life and demise. As for Cloud's role in the last one, be my guest and share your WMG because this troper had a hard time interpretating his role in this escene, the way he looks and recieve Kadaj you can see that actually killing him wasn't in his plans, or at least he understands (or forgives? The main theme in the movie is forgiveness/redemption, after all) him in the end. Also the reasons why Kadaj keep calling him "brother", specially the way he did in the end.
So Tseng could have been using the first Cait Sith to spy on them, which is a Turkly job to be doing, but then after being skewered and knowing that he'd be sacrificing the robot he contacted Reeve to take over with helping them out, which makes sense as a choice when he's the one decent guy in Shinra.
- That Tseng was "killed" isn't actually true, but rather, results from an error in translation. He was just badly injured. But it would make sense if Reeve took over responsibilities for Cait Sith while Tseng recovered.
- While I agree that LOVELESS is about the overarching storyline of the Compilation of FF7, I have a few different thoughts. I think the trio can only be 2 trios- Angeal, Genesis, Sephiroth, or Cloud, Zack, Aerith. The reason Zack, Sephiroth, and Cloud don't work as a trio is that neither Zack nor Cloud were ever really friends with Sephiroth (he and Zack are friendly but not really friends, and Cloud is just some grunt to Sephiroth before he stabs him in Nibelheim) and LOVELESS states that all 3 are friends. The problem with Zack/Cloud/Aerith is at some point the "wanderer" or "wandering soul" (Aerith in this case) fights the "prisoner" (Cloud) (Zack, the "hero", is the one who dies) and I don't see that happening. In fact, I can't imagine anyone from that trio fighting one another- so they're scrapped. On the other hand, Angeal as the hero, Genesis as the prisoner, and Sephiroth as the wanderer seem to work out pretty well. Angeal is dead, but if we need a "hero" presence his legacy was passed down to Zack and then from him to Cloud; this doesn't change that fact that Angeal is still the true representation of the "hero" as far as the trio goes. Sephiroth as "the wandering soul" who "knows no rest" would be the antagonist who picks a fight with his former friend, the prisoner, Genesis. As far as what this means for future installments, that is in a post further up the page under "In the Inevitable Sequel".
We then join Cloud in the events of Final Fantasy VII. Here Cloud bumps into Hojo a couple of times in Shin-ra HQ as well as Costa Del Sol. At this stage, Cloud still believes he is Zack, so he is able to restrain himself. However, when he meets Hojo at the Northern Crater, Cloud's memories of the truth begin to return to him as Hojo calls him a 'failed experiment'. Cloud then begins to act very strangely - a result perhaps of those years of repressed memories coming back to him in a rush due to being presented with a trigger of those times. Cloud's catatonic state in Mideel could then be explained as him trying to come to terms with what Hojo had done to him. This troper has always wondered why Tifa was not effected by the lifestream in the same way as Cloud was. However, if you approach it with this view, Cloud's mental state was not a result of Mako poisoning from the lifestream, but from the reality of years of abuse. Tifa's 'counselling' not only allowed him to come to terms with theimes truth of his identity, but allowed him to overcome the scars Hojo left him with.
The entire game is about the relationship between science and naturalism and their pursuit in explaining and achieving the supernatural. Think about it: what element of gameplay do people criticize for being impractical more than any other? The fact that guns, swords, fists, and magic are being used in the same battle. Each one of the principal protagonists seems to represent a different point in the balance between nature/magic and technological science. Barret definitely personally leans toward nature, yet is a cyborg; Cid explicitly states that while he prefers science, he puts trust in magic; Vincent fights with both modern and corrupted supernatural science, yet has the strangely Aesthetic persona of an ex-romantic in nihilistic despair.
The principal antagonists, Professor Hojo and Sephiroth, each represent extreme imbalance in their interaction with nature/magic and technology. Hojo, of course, is obsessed with science, and even approaches studies of the planet with a heartlessly empirical attitude. Sephiroth, on the other hand, starts out fairly balanced- he is a result of scientific experimentation with the natural- but as he descends into insanity, he becomes more obsessed with the past and the planet itself, and seems to view technology with an attitude approaching even naïvete. They both are motivated by the mostly unexplained Jenova, the supernatural element in this aspect of the game.
The message of the entirety of this fairly violent, apocalyptic game is to approach life with a balanced, peaceful attitude, as in yinyang. And... wait... what was the name of that two-headed zombie in the Shinra Mansion basement again?

- Jossed so hard. It not only exists, but it will also be multiplatform! [1]
- I'd propose a genetic element, but not an overpowering one: much like a human talent, there could be certain bloodlines that are strong in the 'talent' of understanding the Planet, but it's still something anyone could feasibly learn. Different people would simply have different amounts of trouble with it.
- I always figured it was a spiritual/genetic mix.Cetra became less spiritual/were infected by Jenova, and lost their connection to the planet, and became human. Reeve Tuesti and his mother had Cetran ancestry, and some powers, but neither had Aerith's strength of spirit.Cloud had no Cetran heritage (beyond that which every human shares) but was deeply connected to the planet after the events of the game, so it could be argued that he became Cetra. Consider how the genetics of Ifalna being the 'Last Cetra' would have to work. She couldn't have any siblings, nor either of her parents, nor their parents. Or, Ifalna's line had greater spiritual traditions that the ease of Mako living didn't erode, and thus those cousins and second cousins all became like Reeve.
- The Shinra Mansion in Nibelheim looks like a very old manor house, and we only ever hear it described as belonging to Shinra
- Nibelheim draws its name from Norse mythology, as does Midgar, which Shinra essentially founded
- According to the official timelines, the first mako reactor was built in Nibelheim. At the very least, Shinra chose to sequester Jenova there
- In appearance alone, the Shinra family could feasibly share a bloodline with Cloud, taking into account their hair, eyes, and in Rufus' case, surprising resilience.
- Strong physical resemblance between the Galian Beast and the average behemoth.
- Weaker resemblance between these and Red XIII.
- Behemoths are fought on the scaffolds beneath Midgar, and the Northern Cave. It's easy to theorize the Midgar behemoths were produced by Hojo (Crisis Core somewhat confirms this) and the King Behemoths produced by Jenova's virus, given that they're fought at her landing site.
- Red was an experiment of Hojo's.
- Behemoths show an affinity for Flare attacks, as does the Galian Beast. Red XIII has a flame burning on his tail.
- King Behemoths have an affinity for Comet2 attacks. Red XIII's limit breaks have a cosmic theme, one even being a variation on Comet2.
Therefore: Jenova landed 2000 years ago, and encountered Red's species alongside the Cetra. They were infected, and became King Behemoths. Many years later, Hojo experimented on Red's species to produce the standard Behemoths. Meanwhile, he used what he knew to create the Galian Beast while experimenting on Vincent. If you want to include the Compliation, Azul also fits pretty much all of the above.
- Jossed, in an interview with Kotaku, director Yoshinori Kitase stated "They don’t have any background story attached to them".
It's simple levitation. In the AC movie people are shown actively defying gravity with simple jumps, so it's not much of a stretch. The one wing for Jenova Cell recipients doesn't grant flight. Think of it more like a deer's antlers. The wing represents the cells reaching their maturity, to the point where such powers become available.
But let's look closer at things. When Sapphire stops over at Junon, the only active attack it launches at the fortress city is a little beam that does some superficial damage. Not to a major population center, not to a structural weakness that could compromise the defense of the city, not to a place where the leadership would presumably be, not to the big-ass gun that could be dangerous to the WEAPON, but to the roof of the gas chamber where Tifa is stuck in of all things. This gives her the chance to escape. And Ultima’s only plot-relevant action in the game is to (implicitly) stir up the Lifestream in Mideel, which is what ultimately allows Cloud to recover from his coma and find himself. These actions, while causing all sorts of death and destruction, ultimately prove to be useful for the party's quests. The WEAPONs never once impede the heroes' progress.
So what can we conclude from this? That the WEAPONs are, in their destructive way, actively assisting AVALANCHE. Yeah, they’ll defend themselves if they’re attacked, and they’re still highly animalistic monsters that are instinctively violent. But they and/or the Planet know that the party is the best bet to systematically destroy all of the major threats posed by Shinra, Sephiroth, and Meteor, and are willing to step aside and let them handle everything until the WEAPONs need to intervene with their unique sets of skills.
- A point in favor of this theory: Aeris/Aerith is dead and part of the lifestream by the time they're awakened and she could be nudging them in the right directions if not controlling them directly. She's later on shown to be able to control the lifestream itself and since the lifestream creates the WEAPONs it's not much fo astretch to think she had some influence over them as well.
Meteor was a magical impact object designed to be summoned to crash into and thus obliterate natural impact objects like natural meteors or rogue planetoids and thus protect the Planet from them. However, Sephiroth perverted Meteor's original purpose by taking the Black Materia and used Meteor to become a threat to the Planet itself instead of protecting it.
DISCLAIMER: Whether this theory was intentionally implied by WordOfGod or not is up to the readers/players. This theory was made for the fridge-ing lulz.
Let’s first analyze his from the outside: he’s almost as strong as Sephiroth, has the [[Bishonen pretty looks]], has the angsty past similar to Sephy’s, the story and even the whole motive behind Sephiroth’s Start of Darkness revolve around him, his design was made by some of Nomura’s Fanboy Dreams. Oh, and of course, he has a long meaningful name. Your average Self-Insert Marty Stu OC.
Then, let’s analyze his actions and personality around the story: he’s a self-centered Jerkass (remember: everything revolves around the Sue/Stu, so of course he will be all It's All About Me); his skills make him arrogant yet cause him to feel inferior thanks to Sephy being even more skilled than him. His ‘sad past’ as a SOLDIER made by Jenova Project G (which is also the origin of most of his powers) is what pretty much drove him nuts thanks to the Power Degeneration. His pretty looks make him get fangirls and fanclubs, increasing even more his ego.
Genesis is basically a Stu whose traits are played realistically! Everything that qualifies him as a shining, perfect Marty Stu backfires horribly because this is reality and there are no Deus ex machinas to rescue him.
As the Materia captures more of the lifestream it captures more of the passive memories retained within. The new spells you gain access to are due to your gaining more of the combined memories of the lifestream, since a fewer number of people were able to cast fire 3 then fire 1 it takes a collection of more of their passive memories before you have enough combined memory to learn how to cast fire 3.
Eventually when Materia can't store any more combined lifestream it spawns a new materia, which can do the same.
This means that even if all the reactors are destroyed the materia can still slowly drain the lifestream. The effect of the materia is small, but as more materia is spawned from mastered materia it will become more common for people to own materia (it's more common and thus cheaper) and as such more people will be slowly draining energy from the lifestream. Until all the materia is destroyed the lifestream is still in danger!
- A less world ending answer is thus; Materia are the 'knowledge of the Ancients', according to Sephiroth, from Gast, who probably got it from Iflana. You gain AP even from battling unliving creatures such as robots. Lastly, the Lifestream is always growing from people being born, living, and returning. All of this leads to the conclusion that it is experiences that give materia, and its large analogue, the Lifestream, power. Therefor, materia growth is in fact is a natural part of the planets cycles. MP comes from the spiritual power within the individual being channeled through a focus with the materia. There is a little bit of energy loss, as some of that power gets lost as heat from Firaga's or whathave you, but it is recouped when that very spiritually powerful person died (someone with a weak spirit would have a small MP pool, and therefor no rely on materia as much, and someone with a stronger spirit would bring back better dividends upon death to make up the difference).
- If we consider the fact that robots probably run on Mako, destroying one may well release some physical presence the game interprets as AP.
Places like Banora and Characters such as Genesis may possibly appear in the form of sidequests due to being added to the compilation as prequels and Genesis was never really touched upon afterwards.
As for FFX its been hinted by the developers that The World of FFVII is the Future of Spira after Shin-Ra began to research the energy and his ancestors worked further down to the point of the power company.
- Jossed. As of mid-January 2017, there is no news of a definite release date.
Considering all the controversy surrounding the Compilation's quality, and whether or not it makes the game's lore overly complicated, there's a good chance the remake's development team will avoid referencing its material. It won't explicitly punt them into the Canon Discontinuity bin, but they'll be non-entities as far as the plot's concerned.
There might be some little nods, like maybe Turks like Veld and Cissnei getting name-dropped, or Rufus ambiguously surviving Diamond Weapon's attack, but nothing significant.
- I could see that for most of the games, but Crisis Core seemed to have been received fairly well, and given its direct prequel status some parts of it would probably be referenced.
- Confirmed, as Word of God stated in his recent interview that the Remake does not share the direct continuity of the Compilation for the moment.
- Cobalt XIV and Indigo XV will be Red XIII's Biran and Yenke.
- Zangan will appear and teach Tifa her final limit break himself.
- Cissnei will be the girl who used to visit Zack's parents.
- Fenrir will be a summon and be obtained when Tifa saves Cloud from himself.
- Knights of the Round Table will altered to be like a summoned version of Omnislash.
- During the quest to save Tifa from Don Corneo (in which Cloud is Disguised in Drag), there will be references to Lightning.
- There will be a lot of new post-game content, including maybe a way to resurrect Aerith, as a nod to the Urban Legend of Zelda.
- Aerith's revival could be implemented in a New Game Plus, with a major effect on the story — notably, Aerith would be Cloud's love interest instead of Tifa, similar to how Tomoyo After is a huge alternate route for CLANNAD.
- More bosses will be included, some possibly hailing from other entries in the Compilation.
- The story will be lengthened, and include characters from and references to the other entries in the Compilation.
- Jossed for the Compilation reference, as Word of God confirmed that the Remakes does not share direct continuity of the Compilation for the moment.
- Vincent will be retconned to be Sephiroth's father.
- There will be references to Final Fantasy X and X-2.
- It's been officially stated that Supernova is an attack which teleports the party to a realm within Sephiroth's mind, hence why he can destroy more than one Solar System. However, the planets seen are labeled as those from the real Solar System - clearly, he's been to the real world and has a thing for astronomy.
- It goes without saying that the announcement of Cloud as a playable character in Super Smash Bros. pretty much caught everyone by surprise. If there was ever a textbook definition of Unexpected Character this is it. With that being said it makes one wonder what Nintendo and Square Enix may have done/discussed to get this particular deal to happen. When the Remake was first announced at E3 2015 the reveal trailer clearly said "Play it first on Playstation 4." Therefore it's already expected to be a timed exclusive that will eventually make it's way to the Xbox One. However the sudden Smash announcement might mean it could possibly also see a release on Nintendo's new console. After all Cloud is the very first character to join the Smash roster without a single appearance on a Nintendo console up to that point. It's entirely possible that Nintendo wants FFVII on the NX but that this was part of the agreement.
- Except Lightning isn't close enough to Cloud in terms of personality. Where does this comparison keep coming from?
Of course, if it wasn't for Aerith's Deus Ex Machina, then this won't be a kids' game but a Cosmic Horror Story.
And according to Wirth, this precursor civilisation worshipped an ancient "mother deity", while in the game, Sephiroth, who is a cloned Cetra, worships the Yenovah deity as his literal "mother".
