Follow TV Tropes

Following

Cleanup: Extreme Doormat

Go To

It was decided to expand Extreme Doormat's definition into a broader "character is submissive and has trouble saying no" definition. Cleanup was deferred to Short-Term Projects because of some misuse that does not fit the revised definition.

    Original post 
Extreme Doormat is known on the wiki as being the trope for characters who lack a spine and thus bend easily to the will of others. The actual trope is far more specific, however, specifying that the characters must lack strong emotions or ambitions of their own; they're essentially just stoic blobs who follow orders. A wick check was conducted to see how pervasive the misuse was, and the results are:

  • Matches Description: 5/72, or ~7%
  • Submissive, but not stoic or unambitious: 13/72, or ~18%
  • Bad at being respected: 10/72, or ~14%
  • Other misuse: 10/72, or ~14%
  • Mentions obedience but not personality: 12/72, or ~17%
  • ZCE: 27/72, or ~38%

A large variety of the misuse was to be expected; either the character demonstrated a strong personality or ambition despite being submissive, or the example failed to mention a personality for the character at all. The two less common forms of misuse were characters who struggled to garner any sort of respect (such as by being targets for abuse), and a general pile for unrelated forms of misuse (such as being generally approval-seeking). I also noticed many examples were situation-dependent, in that the character was submissive to specific people instead of all the time. And, of course, it's an ancient trope so it has a massive ZCE bin.

What do? The most obvious choice is to just retool it into being for the broader "character is submissive and has trouble saying no" definition, however it leads to a question of how we handle the other forms of misuse. Are they worth spinning into other tropes? Could they possibly be merged into an even broader definition for Extreme Doormat? Or should we just get rid of them?

Wick check:

Extreme Doormat has necessitated a discussion due to the specific description that seems to be at odds with the examples. The description specifies that the character has no drive, no ambition, does not react emotionally to their problems, and is often a Satellite Character. Many examples instead focus on the doormat being passive or submissive, regardless of their reaction to these events, how ambitious they are, and how important they are as a character. 72 wicks need to be checked.

Wicks: 72/72

Usage:

  • Matches Description: 5/72, or ~7%
  • Submissive, but not stoic or unambitious: 13/72, or ~18%
  • Bad at being respected: 10/72, or ~14%
  • Other misuse: 10/72, or ~14%
  • Mentions obedience but not personality: 12/72, or ~17%
  • ZCE: 27/72, or ~38%


    open/close all folders 

    Correct (matches the description) 
  1. Heart Trauma: In Princess Tutu, Prince Siegfried uses a "forbidden spell" to shatter his heart, which is then used to seal away the Raven (who is the Big Bad of his fairytale). Without it, he's an Extreme Doormat who does whatever anyone suggests and is unable to express emotions or opinions. The Magical Girl named in the title has the task to restore his heart, one piece at a time. Touches on a lack of emotional expression
  2. Anime.True Tears: Contrasting her outgoing personality at school, Hiromi is decidedly more reserved at home and follows requests from Shiori without question. Reserved and obedient
  3. Literature.Spin: The Stoic: The main character, Tyler Dupree, though he occasionally verges into The Spock and Extreme Doormat. He's perfectly fine with people treating him like crap, taking it all with hardly an eyeblink, and is able to give humble and reasonable explanations later on for why he acts certain ways. Instead of getting angry, he simply cuts someone to their core with his words. As a love interest later in the novel (bitterly) puts it: "If reasonableness was a knife, I'd be lying on the floor and bleeding out"
  4. VideoGame.Ghostrunner: The Stoic: The Ghostrunner does not let anything rattle him, never complains and comments on every situation with the same flat synthetic voice. What makes him this and not a robotic Extreme Doormat Empty Shell is the fact that he is shown to be capable of empathy, making his own decisions, and at one point he admits to feeling fear. Correctly identifies the true criteria

    Misuse (Submissive, not mentioned to be stoic or unambitious) 
  1. Characters.A Lovers Quarrel: Downplayed, but definitely there. He frequently apologizes after getting mad, and practically does anything Garret tells him to during the first three episodes. After escaping the woods, he becomes less of a doormat and makes his own decisions.
  2. Characters.Jenny Le Clue: Never stands up for himself and lets others pick on him as much as they want to. Jenny calls him out on this. Later on gets subverted in an ironically dark way: He does manage to stand up for himself - against Jenny when she makes a scene at his father's funeral out of grief, culminating in him terminating their friendship.
  3. Characters.Shrill: She's often "too nice" (something Fran tells her is wrong), rather gullible, and extremely passive and uncomfortable when dealing with higher-ups or more aggressive people, which leads to others walking all over her. It almost never occurs to her that someone may be trying to screw her over.
  4. Characters.The Next Step: Due to her extremely non-confrontational behaviour, Chloe tends to be a pushover. Low context, but it's there.
  5. Characters.What Katy Did:
    • Mary seems pretty content to let people decide what she does and never stands up for herself.
    • As a lonely widow, struggles to stand up for herself when confronted; the much younger Katy has to step in to help on more than one occasion. It's implied she does learn from her journey with Katy, as Mrs Ashe is content to travel Europe with just Amy when she's a teenager.
  6. Characters.Wuffle: Foxxo usually doesn't hesitate to exploit Wuffle's eager altruistic impulse to help other people and not demand payment.
  7. ComicBook.Man Thing: Debbi, wife of Col. Choate, in the "Elements of Terror" storyline (in Marvel Comics Presents). She has no will or life beyond him, and allows him to murder her to satisfy his sick urges. It's clear enough about the "no will or life" part, but her actual personality is not referenced so I'm putting it here.
  8. DarthWiki.Finding Avalon: Tiron is known to do whatever he's ordered to do even if he's clearly uncomfortable with it, because he feels that he has no power to fight back. The biggest - and only - highlight of his life was standing up to his superiors when ordered to deliver further research to the military at the peak of its cruelty and defecting.
  9. DarthWiki.Zellquist Bakery: Thanks to her peaceful and empathetic nature, she is well-known for being rather spineless.
  10. Film.Bicycle Bride: Beena's subservient, submissive but loving father.
  11. Manga.Rent A Girlfriend: Kazuya is Phlegmatic most of the time. He's kind and supportive, but also a spineless Extreme Doormat, can be overly optimistic, and overall is neither an introvert nor an extrovert.
  12. Recap.Bluey BBQ: Bingo just wants to sit down and relax, but her cousin Muffin keeps demanding that she get up and gather ingredients for their pretend salad. Every time, Bingo does what she wants.
  13. Theatre.Ride The Cyclone: Constance has won the "Nicest Girl in Town" award in her class three years in a row because she's kind and thoughtful and friendly—but she also lets her best friend walk all over her.

    Misuse (bad at confrontation or getting respect, not necessarily obedient) 
  1. Characters.A 3 Summer: Kazunari dislikes his former, introverted self and wanted to become more popular. Although he does have a large social network, he does not have any close friends prior to joining the Summer Troupe. Part of the reason is that Kazunari is too kind, and will not impose his opinions on others for fear of losing approval. Joining the theater, and becoming an active participant whose opinion is valued and needed changes his behavior. It is still rare for Kazunari to lose his happy disposition, though.Kazunari dislikes his former, introverted self and wanted to become more popular. Although he does have a large social network, he does not have any close friends prior to joining the Summer Troupe. Part of the reason is that Kazunari is too kind, and will not impose his opinions on others for fear of losing approval. Joining the theater, and becoming an active participant whose opinion is valued and needed changes his behavior. It is still rare for Kazunari to lose his happy disposition, though.
  2. Characters.Skin Horse: Has some issues standing up for herself, though Unity is trying to get her better about and Tigerlily taught her to add 'NOT' to her vocabulary ("Service is NOT my only joy").
  3. Characters.This Is The Police: As well-intentioned as she is, Lilly simply does not have the spine to command authority over her subordinates.
  4. Film.Tower Heist: Deconstructed. Claire accuses Josh of avoiding confrontation, yet he explains he's only that way because he has no need to be otherwise. Then he hears about Lester...
  5. Film.The Way Way Back: Duncan calls his mom out for being this, as she knows about Trent cheating on her but does nothing about it.
  6. Literature.The Goose Girl: Both are just about being non-confrontational or quiet
    • The princess is too humble to reprimand her maidservant for disobeying her, even when she has her mother's protective charm still in her hand. She eventually shows a little more agency, if only to save her hair from the goose boy's grabby hands.
    • Falada, despite being a talking horse, says and does nothing when the servant usurps the princess's role. He also (apparently) does not speak up to save his own life. He speaks more when dead than alive!
  7. Music.Smash Album: The subject of "Self Esteem". He regularly gets stood up, his girlfriend cheats on him, and alternatively also comes over at random times for sex.
  8. Recap.The Interns S 2 E 1: Levin is completely spineless; even if he tries to argue, he quickly gets overwhelmed and gives up. Lyuba tries (with Lobanov's help) to snap him out of it.
  9. VisualNovel.Swan Song: Takuma has extremely low self-esteem and just can't stand up for himself. At one point, Hibari literally steps on him. He changes later on—and not in a good way.

    Misuse (other) 
  1. Anime.Mind Game: Nishi may have a kind nature but he starts off the movie as a total wuss. Being a "wuss" is not being a doormat.
  2. Characters.Dr Frost: She has dependent personality disorder, which causes her to be nearly unable to make any decisions on her own.
  3. Fanfic.Dear Diary 2018: The reader is prone to tears during many scenarios and struggles to admit her true feelings. But considering her situation, it's not entirely unjustified.
  4. Heartwarming.Bluey: "Dance Mode" ending with the collective Heeler family making it up to Bingo for not respecting her wishes by all going into the titular Dance Mode in front of a crowd. It's rather silly out of context, but it shows they care for Bingo and giving her what she wanted in the first place. Describes a lack of respect on one character's part, not whether the other is a doormat
  5. Literature.A Corner Of The Universe: Played with in regards to Hattie’s mother Dorothy. On one hand she’s not afraid to take matters into her own hands in terms of who she marries, where she lives, and what she does to earn a living. On the other hand, Dorothy is also just as likely to seek her mother’s approval in trivial matters. Just approval seeking, not being a doormat
  6. Literature.The Merlin Conspiracy: Grundo appears to be a variant on this, in that he lets Roddy do everything for him. As it turns out, he's quite capable on his own and originally glamoured her into protecting him when they were three.
  7. Theatre.Glengarry Glen Ross: Lingk. He simply listens to Ricky monologue for an entire night and seems to think that they've had a heart-to-heart, then gets browbeaten by his wife to cancel the sale of land, then apologizes to Ricky for canceling even after learning that Ricky lied to him. Seems to be less of an order-follower and more just generally submissive and exploitable.
  8. YMMV.The Ledge: Hollis: Was his decision to forgive his wife for cheating on him and accepting the fact that he's not the biological father of his kids a brave thing to do, or a copout that makes him an Extreme Doormat? Forgiveness is not necessarily being a doormat

    Follows orders / is referred to as a pushover ; Personality not mentioned 
  1. Characters.Baby Looney Tunes: He's sometimes prone to be bossed around by the others.
  2. Characters.Sweet Valley High: Especially when it comes to her sister's schemes, Liz is often a massive pushover.
  3. Fanfic.Lucky Charm: When Sakura was dating Sasuke, she did everything he said. She later regret it.
  4. Film.The Sum Of All Fears: Cabot as well. In the book Cabot is an incompetent asshole who leaves all of the work to Ryan and a total pushover. Here, Cabot is a mentor towards Ryan, and is one of Ryan's biggest allies.
  5. Music.XTC: "Snowman".
    It seems you would say I was too soft-hearted
    If you made a dunce-cap I'd don it!
    People will always be tempted to wipe their feet
    On anything with "welcome" written on it.
  6. Recap.Gargoyles S 2 City Of Stone: Demona's Second (unnamed gargoyle with a chest plate voiced by John Rhys-Davies) is a stalwart warrior and levelheaded guy but is ultimately a total pushover around Demona.
  7. Recap.Yellowjackets S 2 E 3 Digestif: Lottie reassures Lisa, who has shared in the past that she "let[s] people walk all over you instead of expressing your anger. Instead of feeling it." She then encourages Lisa to lean into that anger, and hands Lisa the fork: "And if you feel the need... to hurt Natalie back, I want you to do it." Instead, Lisa drops the fork and hugs Natalie, saying she understands and that she forgives Natalie. Natalie's face does the talking. "WTF did just happen?"
  8. Series.Little Britain: Lou will give into Andy when he asks for something he doesn't like. He will then rectify the situation (most of the time) when Andy then says that he does not like what he asked as for.
  9. Series.Quincy ME: How many times has Sam stayed late to run tests, to the detriment of his love and social life? As is, it describes a trope like Workaholic, not ED

    ZCE, PCE, and stray wicks 
  1. Who's on First?: When people ask about Molly’s power in Epithet Erased, she usually replies that it’s “Dumb.” Note the capital. Most people mistake this for self-deprecation — which considering her personality, wouldn't be out of character — until she actually demonstrates the ability (be it temporarily making someone stupid or nullifying the effects of an attack).
  2. Awesome.Flipside: Heteronormative Crusader and overall Well-Intentioned Extremist Orannsong makes remarks about how Bern is worthless as a knight because of her "unnatural" attraction to another woman. Normally Extreme Doormat Crest beats the crap out of him.
  3. Characters.Heirverse: To Orihime.
  4. Characters.The Burrowers: Trope-name only
  5. Characters.Paw Paw Bears: Trope-name only
  6. Characters.Uber Drama Island: Two wicks, both trope-name-only
  7. Characters.World Of Io: Surprisingly easy to push around emotionally despite her great physical strength. What does it mean to "push around emotionally"?
  8. Creator.Terrytoons: John Doormat. In "Another Day, Another Doormat", it shows that he's a Mean Boss (if not a Bad Boss and Corrupt Corporate Executive) at work, but to his wife he's an Extreme Doormat as his name suggest.
  9. Film.Tangerine: Obnoxious In-Laws: Ashken is suspicious about her son-in-law's frequent disappearances, especially in the middle of a Christmas Eve dinner, and sets off to discover his whereabouts. Justified, since it turns out he's cheating on his wife/her daughter with a plethora of prostitutes; ultimately, she's less obnoxious than she is a exceptionally protective mother over her daughter.
  10. Funny.Marmalade Boy: Let's list all of the reasons why Miki was attracted to Ginta back in middle school. He's short-tempered, he gets easily excited and flattered, and he's a patsy, as noted by Miki herself. All shortcomings as Meiko points out. 'Potholed under patsy
  11. Headscratchers.Kiznaiver: Another more complete interpretation to the Seven Deadly Sins question could be that Katsuhira is Sloth, Tenga is Wrath, Yuta is Gluttony, Maki is Pride, Chidori is Envy, Nico is Greed, and Hisomu is Lust. This interpretation would also line up with their Seven Heavenly Virtue counterparts which go along with the Kiznaivers' character development by the end of the series. Potholed under Sloth
  12. Literature.Chrestomanci: Cat, and Marianne, at first.
  13. Literature.Time For The Stars: Tim always complains that his brother Pat gets preferential treatment, including getting on the mission which he's convinced that Pat arranged somehow. It's pointed out to him that this is a self-fulfilling prophecy — he's so convinced that Pat will get to go on the mission he doesn't make his own desires known. Very lacking on whether or not Tim is a doormat or not.
  14. Manga.Chocotto Sister: Chitose.
  15. Manga.Girlfriend Girlfriend: Saki is actually usually more of an Extreme Doormat, at least when compared to the obsessive determination of the others, but it's shown in the past she can be just as determined as Naoya when it comes to something she wants. In the past it was becoming friends with Shino, and no matter how much Shino said no, Saki was not going to be deterred.
  16. NightmareFuel.A Frozen Heart: By the time he's a young adult, Hans not only suffers from clinical depression and possible Self-Harm, he believes that abuse is normal. He practically gives up fighting back, but it only makes things worse. No wonder he's got so many issues, as being the proverbial Black Sheep and Extreme Doormat of his family, and growing up the youngest but most forgettable of his clan wound up becoming his Freudian Excuse.
  17. Recap.Allen Gregory S 1 E 1 Pilot: Jeremy takes whatever crap is thrown his way.
  18. Recap.Friends S 6 E 12 The One With The Joke: Rachel's flaw of the episode.
  19. Recap.Transformers G 1 Changing Gears: Gears becomes one after having his special circuit removed.
  20. Series.Charm School:
    • Leilene in the first season. She does grow out if it. Brooke even attempts to exploit this at the near end of the show before the finale in the prom episode by convincing Leilene to vote for someone else besides her on who did the worst at the Prom challenge the night before. It didn't work, and Leilene votes for Brooke anyway, causing Broke to lose the second challenge and become furious at Leilene.
    • Brandi C to Megan.
  21. Series.Colonel March Of Scotland Yard: March's niece Emily in "Present Tense". Just before he attempts to murder her, her husband Ernest expresses his contempt by saying: Mentions she's a doormat, does not explain how.
    "No man can long be in love with the mat on which he wipes his feet."
  22. Series.The Cool Kids: O.O.C. Is Serious Business: Margaret is loud, forceful, and opinionated, but she turns into an Extreme Doormat when it comes to her daughter. Hank immediately calls her on it; Charlie and Sid prefer to avoid provoking her.
  23. VisualNovel.Double Homework: Johanna.
  24. WebVideo.Door Monster: Mood-Swinger: Jefferey misjudges the severity of his Dialogue Tree options and promptly vacillates between a Jerkass and a Extreme Doormat.

    Multiple Wicks, Different Categories 
  1. Characters.Better Off Ted:
    • Not as much a Lem, but he cannot stand up to Ted or Veronica. PCE
    • Even Phil thinks Lem's a pushover. Whenever he has an issue with the company, he has a great deal of difficulty confronting someone about it. Bad at confrontation
  2. Characters.Princess Evangile:
    • Tends to let her parents walk all over her, though contact with Masaya helps her grow out of it. Character bossed around
    • Kouji is a nice person, but he never stands up for Ayaka. He goes along with what Misako says because Misako is crazy and he doesn’t want to hurt her by reminding her that Ayaka is her own daughter, not Tomie’s. Not standing up for someone =/= a doormat
  3. Film.Mean Girls:
  4. Literature.Oblomov:
    • Oblomov is pushed around by Tarantyev and easily manipulated by Mukhoyarov. Just a pushover, personality not mentioned
    • Agafya is quiet and obedient and does what her brother tells her. However, when it's Oblomov's happiness on the line, she stands her ground, even against her brother. Quietly obedient, possibly a valid example
  5. TrappedInADatingSim.Tropes 0 To F:
    • Noblemen at Holfort Academy in general behave this way around the women, since they can't afford bad rumors among the Royal Brat girls about them ruining their already difficult marriage prospects. It's bad enough that Deirdre, who's from an especially feared House, tells Leon that no boy has ever praised another girl in front of her. Lacks context, and is too situational
    • A more specific example, would be Emile, a capture target in the second Otome Game who was known by the game's players as "Easy-Pick Emile". He is bossed around, and generally mistreated by his girlfriend Lelia. Just follows orders / gets abused

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 20th 2024 at 1:04:48 PM

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#1: Feb 9th 2024 at 2:55:32 PM

It was decided to expand Extreme Doormat's definition into a broader "character is submissive and has trouble saying no" definition. Cleanup was deferred to Short-Term Projects because of some misuse that does not fit the revised definition.

    Original post 
Extreme Doormat is known on the wiki as being the trope for characters who lack a spine and thus bend easily to the will of others. The actual trope is far more specific, however, specifying that the characters must lack strong emotions or ambitions of their own; they're essentially just stoic blobs who follow orders. A wick check was conducted to see how pervasive the misuse was, and the results are:

  • Matches Description: 5/72, or ~7%
  • Submissive, but not stoic or unambitious: 13/72, or ~18%
  • Bad at being respected: 10/72, or ~14%
  • Other misuse: 10/72, or ~14%
  • Mentions obedience but not personality: 12/72, or ~17%
  • ZCE: 27/72, or ~38%

A large variety of the misuse was to be expected; either the character demonstrated a strong personality or ambition despite being submissive, or the example failed to mention a personality for the character at all. The two less common forms of misuse were characters who struggled to garner any sort of respect (such as by being targets for abuse), and a general pile for unrelated forms of misuse (such as being generally approval-seeking). I also noticed many examples were situation-dependent, in that the character was submissive to specific people instead of all the time. And, of course, it's an ancient trope so it has a massive ZCE bin.

What do? The most obvious choice is to just retool it into being for the broader "character is submissive and has trouble saying no" definition, however it leads to a question of how we handle the other forms of misuse. Are they worth spinning into other tropes? Could they possibly be merged into an even broader definition for Extreme Doormat? Or should we just get rid of them?

Wick check:

Extreme Doormat has necessitated a discussion due to the specific description that seems to be at odds with the examples. The description specifies that the character has no drive, no ambition, does not react emotionally to their problems, and is often a Satellite Character. Many examples instead focus on the doormat being passive or submissive, regardless of their reaction to these events, how ambitious they are, and how important they are as a character. 72 wicks need to be checked.

Wicks: 72/72

Usage:

  • Matches Description: 5/72, or ~7%
  • Submissive, but not stoic or unambitious: 13/72, or ~18%
  • Bad at being respected: 10/72, or ~14%
  • Other misuse: 10/72, or ~14%
  • Mentions obedience but not personality: 12/72, or ~17%
  • ZCE: 27/72, or ~38%


    open/close all folders 

    Correct (matches the description) 
  1. Heart Trauma: In Princess Tutu, Prince Siegfried uses a "forbidden spell" to shatter his heart, which is then used to seal away the Raven (who is the Big Bad of his fairytale). Without it, he's an Extreme Doormat who does whatever anyone suggests and is unable to express emotions or opinions. The Magical Girl named in the title has the task to restore his heart, one piece at a time. Touches on a lack of emotional expression
  2. Anime.True Tears: Contrasting her outgoing personality at school, Hiromi is decidedly more reserved at home and follows requests from Shiori without question. Reserved and obedient
  3. Literature.Spin: The Stoic: The main character, Tyler Dupree, though he occasionally verges into The Spock and Extreme Doormat. He's perfectly fine with people treating him like crap, taking it all with hardly an eyeblink, and is able to give humble and reasonable explanations later on for why he acts certain ways. Instead of getting angry, he simply cuts someone to their core with his words. As a love interest later in the novel (bitterly) puts it: "If reasonableness was a knife, I'd be lying on the floor and bleeding out"
  4. VideoGame.Ghostrunner: The Stoic: The Ghostrunner does not let anything rattle him, never complains and comments on every situation with the same flat synthetic voice. What makes him this and not a robotic Extreme Doormat Empty Shell is the fact that he is shown to be capable of empathy, making his own decisions, and at one point he admits to feeling fear. Correctly identifies the true criteria

    Misuse (Submissive, not mentioned to be stoic or unambitious) 
  1. Characters.A Lovers Quarrel: Downplayed, but definitely there. He frequently apologizes after getting mad, and practically does anything Garret tells him to during the first three episodes. After escaping the woods, he becomes less of a doormat and makes his own decisions.
  2. Characters.Jenny Le Clue: Never stands up for himself and lets others pick on him as much as they want to. Jenny calls him out on this. Later on gets subverted in an ironically dark way: He does manage to stand up for himself - against Jenny when she makes a scene at his father's funeral out of grief, culminating in him terminating their friendship.
  3. Characters.Shrill: She's often "too nice" (something Fran tells her is wrong), rather gullible, and extremely passive and uncomfortable when dealing with higher-ups or more aggressive people, which leads to others walking all over her. It almost never occurs to her that someone may be trying to screw her over.
  4. Characters.The Next Step: Due to her extremely non-confrontational behaviour, Chloe tends to be a pushover. Low context, but it's there.
  5. Characters.What Katy Did:
    • Mary seems pretty content to let people decide what she does and never stands up for herself.
    • As a lonely widow, struggles to stand up for herself when confronted; the much younger Katy has to step in to help on more than one occasion. It's implied she does learn from her journey with Katy, as Mrs Ashe is content to travel Europe with just Amy when she's a teenager.
  6. Characters.Wuffle: Foxxo usually doesn't hesitate to exploit Wuffle's eager altruistic impulse to help other people and not demand payment.
  7. ComicBook.Man Thing: Debbi, wife of Col. Choate, in the "Elements of Terror" storyline (in Marvel Comics Presents). She has no will or life beyond him, and allows him to murder her to satisfy his sick urges. It's clear enough about the "no will or life" part, but her actual personality is not referenced so I'm putting it here.
  8. DarthWiki.Finding Avalon: Tiron is known to do whatever he's ordered to do even if he's clearly uncomfortable with it, because he feels that he has no power to fight back. The biggest - and only - highlight of his life was standing up to his superiors when ordered to deliver further research to the military at the peak of its cruelty and defecting.
  9. DarthWiki.Zellquist Bakery: Thanks to her peaceful and empathetic nature, she is well-known for being rather spineless.
  10. Film.Bicycle Bride: Beena's subservient, submissive but loving father.
  11. Manga.Rent A Girlfriend: Kazuya is Phlegmatic most of the time. He's kind and supportive, but also a spineless Extreme Doormat, can be overly optimistic, and overall is neither an introvert nor an extrovert.
  12. Recap.Bluey BBQ: Bingo just wants to sit down and relax, but her cousin Muffin keeps demanding that she get up and gather ingredients for their pretend salad. Every time, Bingo does what she wants.
  13. Theatre.Ride The Cyclone: Constance has won the "Nicest Girl in Town" award in her class three years in a row because she's kind and thoughtful and friendly—but she also lets her best friend walk all over her.

    Misuse (bad at confrontation or getting respect, not necessarily obedient) 
  1. Characters.A 3 Summer: Kazunari dislikes his former, introverted self and wanted to become more popular. Although he does have a large social network, he does not have any close friends prior to joining the Summer Troupe. Part of the reason is that Kazunari is too kind, and will not impose his opinions on others for fear of losing approval. Joining the theater, and becoming an active participant whose opinion is valued and needed changes his behavior. It is still rare for Kazunari to lose his happy disposition, though.Kazunari dislikes his former, introverted self and wanted to become more popular. Although he does have a large social network, he does not have any close friends prior to joining the Summer Troupe. Part of the reason is that Kazunari is too kind, and will not impose his opinions on others for fear of losing approval. Joining the theater, and becoming an active participant whose opinion is valued and needed changes his behavior. It is still rare for Kazunari to lose his happy disposition, though.
  2. Characters.Skin Horse: Has some issues standing up for herself, though Unity is trying to get her better about and Tigerlily taught her to add 'NOT' to her vocabulary ("Service is NOT my only joy").
  3. Characters.This Is The Police: As well-intentioned as she is, Lilly simply does not have the spine to command authority over her subordinates.
  4. Film.Tower Heist: Deconstructed. Claire accuses Josh of avoiding confrontation, yet he explains he's only that way because he has no need to be otherwise. Then he hears about Lester...
  5. Film.The Way Way Back: Duncan calls his mom out for being this, as she knows about Trent cheating on her but does nothing about it.
  6. Literature.The Goose Girl: Both are just about being non-confrontational or quiet
    • The princess is too humble to reprimand her maidservant for disobeying her, even when she has her mother's protective charm still in her hand. She eventually shows a little more agency, if only to save her hair from the goose boy's grabby hands.
    • Falada, despite being a talking horse, says and does nothing when the servant usurps the princess's role. He also (apparently) does not speak up to save his own life. He speaks more when dead than alive!
  7. Music.Smash Album: The subject of "Self Esteem". He regularly gets stood up, his girlfriend cheats on him, and alternatively also comes over at random times for sex.
  8. Recap.The Interns S 2 E 1: Levin is completely spineless; even if he tries to argue, he quickly gets overwhelmed and gives up. Lyuba tries (with Lobanov's help) to snap him out of it.
  9. VisualNovel.Swan Song: Takuma has extremely low self-esteem and just can't stand up for himself. At one point, Hibari literally steps on him. He changes later on—and not in a good way.

    Misuse (other) 
  1. Anime.Mind Game: Nishi may have a kind nature but he starts off the movie as a total wuss. Being a "wuss" is not being a doormat.
  2. Characters.Dr Frost: She has dependent personality disorder, which causes her to be nearly unable to make any decisions on her own.
  3. Fanfic.Dear Diary 2018: The reader is prone to tears during many scenarios and struggles to admit her true feelings. But considering her situation, it's not entirely unjustified.
  4. Heartwarming.Bluey: "Dance Mode" ending with the collective Heeler family making it up to Bingo for not respecting her wishes by all going into the titular Dance Mode in front of a crowd. It's rather silly out of context, but it shows they care for Bingo and giving her what she wanted in the first place. Describes a lack of respect on one character's part, not whether the other is a doormat
  5. Literature.A Corner Of The Universe: Played with in regards to Hattie’s mother Dorothy. On one hand she’s not afraid to take matters into her own hands in terms of who she marries, where she lives, and what she does to earn a living. On the other hand, Dorothy is also just as likely to seek her mother’s approval in trivial matters. Just approval seeking, not being a doormat
  6. Literature.The Merlin Conspiracy: Grundo appears to be a variant on this, in that he lets Roddy do everything for him. As it turns out, he's quite capable on his own and originally glamoured her into protecting him when they were three.
  7. Theatre.Glengarry Glen Ross: Lingk. He simply listens to Ricky monologue for an entire night and seems to think that they've had a heart-to-heart, then gets browbeaten by his wife to cancel the sale of land, then apologizes to Ricky for canceling even after learning that Ricky lied to him. Seems to be less of an order-follower and more just generally submissive and exploitable.
  8. YMMV.The Ledge: Hollis: Was his decision to forgive his wife for cheating on him and accepting the fact that he's not the biological father of his kids a brave thing to do, or a copout that makes him an Extreme Doormat? Forgiveness is not necessarily being a doormat

    Follows orders / is referred to as a pushover ; Personality not mentioned 
  1. Characters.Baby Looney Tunes: He's sometimes prone to be bossed around by the others.
  2. Characters.Sweet Valley High: Especially when it comes to her sister's schemes, Liz is often a massive pushover.
  3. Fanfic.Lucky Charm: When Sakura was dating Sasuke, she did everything he said. She later regret it.
  4. Film.The Sum Of All Fears: Cabot as well. In the book Cabot is an incompetent asshole who leaves all of the work to Ryan and a total pushover. Here, Cabot is a mentor towards Ryan, and is one of Ryan's biggest allies.
  5. Music.XTC: "Snowman".
    It seems you would say I was too soft-hearted
    If you made a dunce-cap I'd don it!
    People will always be tempted to wipe their feet
    On anything with "welcome" written on it.
  6. Recap.Gargoyles S 2 City Of Stone: Demona's Second (unnamed gargoyle with a chest plate voiced by John Rhys-Davies) is a stalwart warrior and levelheaded guy but is ultimately a total pushover around Demona.
  7. Recap.Yellowjackets S 2 E 3 Digestif: Lottie reassures Lisa, who has shared in the past that she "let[s] people walk all over you instead of expressing your anger. Instead of feeling it." She then encourages Lisa to lean into that anger, and hands Lisa the fork: "And if you feel the need... to hurt Natalie back, I want you to do it." Instead, Lisa drops the fork and hugs Natalie, saying she understands and that she forgives Natalie. Natalie's face does the talking. "WTF did just happen?"
  8. Series.Little Britain: Lou will give into Andy when he asks for something he doesn't like. He will then rectify the situation (most of the time) when Andy then says that he does not like what he asked as for.
  9. Series.Quincy ME: How many times has Sam stayed late to run tests, to the detriment of his love and social life? As is, it describes a trope like Workaholic, not ED

    ZCE, PCE, and stray wicks 
  1. Who's on First?: When people ask about Molly’s power in Epithet Erased, she usually replies that it’s “Dumb.” Note the capital. Most people mistake this for self-deprecation — which considering her personality, wouldn't be out of character — until she actually demonstrates the ability (be it temporarily making someone stupid or nullifying the effects of an attack).
  2. Awesome.Flipside: Heteronormative Crusader and overall Well-Intentioned Extremist Orannsong makes remarks about how Bern is worthless as a knight because of her "unnatural" attraction to another woman. Normally Extreme Doormat Crest beats the crap out of him.
  3. Characters.Heirverse: To Orihime.
  4. Characters.The Burrowers: Trope-name only
  5. Characters.Paw Paw Bears: Trope-name only
  6. Characters.Uber Drama Island: Two wicks, both trope-name-only
  7. Characters.World Of Io: Surprisingly easy to push around emotionally despite her great physical strength. What does it mean to "push around emotionally"?
  8. Creator.Terrytoons: John Doormat. In "Another Day, Another Doormat", it shows that he's a Mean Boss (if not a Bad Boss and Corrupt Corporate Executive) at work, but to his wife he's an Extreme Doormat as his name suggest.
  9. Film.Tangerine: Obnoxious In-Laws: Ashken is suspicious about her son-in-law's frequent disappearances, especially in the middle of a Christmas Eve dinner, and sets off to discover his whereabouts. Justified, since it turns out he's cheating on his wife/her daughter with a plethora of prostitutes; ultimately, she's less obnoxious than she is a exceptionally protective mother over her daughter.
  10. Funny.Marmalade Boy: Let's list all of the reasons why Miki was attracted to Ginta back in middle school. He's short-tempered, he gets easily excited and flattered, and he's a patsy, as noted by Miki herself. All shortcomings as Meiko points out. 'Potholed under patsy
  11. Headscratchers.Kiznaiver: Another more complete interpretation to the Seven Deadly Sins question could be that Katsuhira is Sloth, Tenga is Wrath, Yuta is Gluttony, Maki is Pride, Chidori is Envy, Nico is Greed, and Hisomu is Lust. This interpretation would also line up with their Seven Heavenly Virtue counterparts which go along with the Kiznaivers' character development by the end of the series. Potholed under Sloth
  12. Literature.Chrestomanci: Cat, and Marianne, at first.
  13. Literature.Time For The Stars: Tim always complains that his brother Pat gets preferential treatment, including getting on the mission which he's convinced that Pat arranged somehow. It's pointed out to him that this is a self-fulfilling prophecy — he's so convinced that Pat will get to go on the mission he doesn't make his own desires known. Very lacking on whether or not Tim is a doormat or not.
  14. Manga.Chocotto Sister: Chitose.
  15. Manga.Girlfriend Girlfriend: Saki is actually usually more of an Extreme Doormat, at least when compared to the obsessive determination of the others, but it's shown in the past she can be just as determined as Naoya when it comes to something she wants. In the past it was becoming friends with Shino, and no matter how much Shino said no, Saki was not going to be deterred.
  16. NightmareFuel.A Frozen Heart: By the time he's a young adult, Hans not only suffers from clinical depression and possible Self-Harm, he believes that abuse is normal. He practically gives up fighting back, but it only makes things worse. No wonder he's got so many issues, as being the proverbial Black Sheep and Extreme Doormat of his family, and growing up the youngest but most forgettable of his clan wound up becoming his Freudian Excuse.
  17. Recap.Allen Gregory S 1 E 1 Pilot: Jeremy takes whatever crap is thrown his way.
  18. Recap.Friends S 6 E 12 The One With The Joke: Rachel's flaw of the episode.
  19. Recap.Transformers G 1 Changing Gears: Gears becomes one after having his special circuit removed.
  20. Series.Charm School:
    • Leilene in the first season. She does grow out if it. Brooke even attempts to exploit this at the near end of the show before the finale in the prom episode by convincing Leilene to vote for someone else besides her on who did the worst at the Prom challenge the night before. It didn't work, and Leilene votes for Brooke anyway, causing Broke to lose the second challenge and become furious at Leilene.
    • Brandi C to Megan.
  21. Series.Colonel March Of Scotland Yard: March's niece Emily in "Present Tense". Just before he attempts to murder her, her husband Ernest expresses his contempt by saying: Mentions she's a doormat, does not explain how.
    "No man can long be in love with the mat on which he wipes his feet."
  22. Series.The Cool Kids: O.O.C. Is Serious Business: Margaret is loud, forceful, and opinionated, but she turns into an Extreme Doormat when it comes to her daughter. Hank immediately calls her on it; Charlie and Sid prefer to avoid provoking her.
  23. VisualNovel.Double Homework: Johanna.
  24. WebVideo.Door Monster: Mood-Swinger: Jefferey misjudges the severity of his Dialogue Tree options and promptly vacillates between a Jerkass and a Extreme Doormat.

    Multiple Wicks, Different Categories 
  1. Characters.Better Off Ted:
    • Not as much a Lem, but he cannot stand up to Ted or Veronica. PCE
    • Even Phil thinks Lem's a pushover. Whenever he has an issue with the company, he has a great deal of difficulty confronting someone about it. Bad at confrontation
  2. Characters.Princess Evangile:
    • Tends to let her parents walk all over her, though contact with Masaya helps her grow out of it. Character bossed around
    • Kouji is a nice person, but he never stands up for Ayaka. He goes along with what Misako says because Misako is crazy and he doesn’t want to hurt her by reminding her that Ayaka is her own daughter, not Tomie’s. Not standing up for someone =/= a doormat
  3. Film.Mean Girls:
  4. Literature.Oblomov:
    • Oblomov is pushed around by Tarantyev and easily manipulated by Mukhoyarov. Just a pushover, personality not mentioned
    • Agafya is quiet and obedient and does what her brother tells her. However, when it's Oblomov's happiness on the line, she stands her ground, even against her brother. Quietly obedient, possibly a valid example
  5. TrappedInADatingSim.Tropes 0 To F:
    • Noblemen at Holfort Academy in general behave this way around the women, since they can't afford bad rumors among the Royal Brat girls about them ruining their already difficult marriage prospects. It's bad enough that Deirdre, who's from an especially feared House, tells Leon that no boy has ever praised another girl in front of her. Lacks context, and is too situational
    • A more specific example, would be Emile, a capture target in the second Otome Game who was known by the game's players as "Easy-Pick Emile". He is bossed around, and generally mistreated by his girlfriend Lelia. Just follows orders / gets abused

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 20th 2024 at 1:04:48 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#2: Feb 9th 2024 at 2:58:25 PM

Opened.

I could get behind the retool mentioned (the broader "character is submissive and has trouble saying no" definition), and as for what to do with misuse unrelated to that, maybe we could Yard or TLP it.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 9th 2024 at 5:00:16 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#3: Feb 9th 2024 at 3:21:08 PM

Expanding/retooling the definition to fit the most common type of misuse seems like the obvious choice here. The "bad at confrontation or getting respect" misuse could easily be yarded or made into a TLP.

back lol
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#5: Feb 9th 2024 at 3:29:20 PM

I'm cool with yarding the other stuff. [tup]

And if I didn't make it obvious in the OP, I favor expanding.

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 9th 2024 at 6:29:43 AM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#6: Feb 9th 2024 at 4:28:57 PM

Yes, it is best to expand.

I simply go with the consensus.

Kirby is awesome.
Coachpill Can shapeshift (probably) from Washington State, grew up on Long Island Since: Aug, 2022 Relationship Status: Baby don't hurt me!
StarSword Captain of USS Bajor from somewhere in deep space Since: Sep, 2011
Captain of USS Bajor
StalkerGamer Hi! :3 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Love is an open door
SamCurt Since: Jan, 2001
#10: Feb 9th 2024 at 7:03:06 PM

Expand. The trope's name is overly wide i.r.t. the actual definition, while the expanded definition fits quite well.

Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova
Riolugirl Rookie Trope Repairer from whence you came, you shall remain... (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#11: Feb 10th 2024 at 1:48:21 AM

Expand [tup]

"As long as I have my comrades with me, I can do anything!" (She/Her) (Current Focus: Cleaning Hell Is That Noise misuse)
MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#12: Feb 10th 2024 at 3:58:27 AM

The trope name is broad, but being called "extreme" means that it could be taken to imply any level of specificity, so I can see how it became associated with the original definition. If the original definition is a viable trope I would support a rename for the expanded one and a disambig for this title. And regarding @4, I'm not sure how Easily Submissive is a title for anything to be yarded from this as opposed to the proposed expanded definition.

Sadly the link to the original YKTTW on the archived discussion page is broken, and while I was able to find a copy in the Internet Archive after a fashion, it dates to a period where the way YKTTW was coded resulted in the Archive not picking up any of the replies, which is unfortunate because the originally proposed name of The Man With No Ego is a pretty interesting and potentially good one and I'd have liked to have seen how it ended up with the current name.

jlvs200s Jogo from The Netherlands (Troper in training) Relationship Status: At the center of everything that happens to me
Jogo
#13: Feb 10th 2024 at 4:10:35 AM

[tup] to expanding the trope definition to include "character is submissive and has trouble saying no" misuse and yarding the other misuse.

"Stand Proud, Sukuna, you are strong" | He/Him
DoktorvonEurotrash Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk Since: Jan, 2001
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
#14: Feb 10th 2024 at 6:00:20 AM

I think the misuse of the trope stems for the fact that we don't seem to have one for a "regular doormat," meaning that any characters that are pushovers get shoehorned into this one, despite not fitting the criteria.

I don't know whether it might be better to broaden this one, or keep as is and make a new trope for more "normally" weak-willed doormat characters.

It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#15: Feb 10th 2024 at 11:45:43 AM

The title seems to stem from the Old Days of TVT habit of attaching meaningless intensifiers to trope names, so if people mistook this for spineless characters, I don't think most would've differentiated levels of spinelessness, anyway, [up].

I think the gist of the trope we want to go for is a character with a (fairly) consistent trait of being a doormat - meek, bends to others easily. Extrapolating from the numbers, I do see there being potentially enough examples for the original "stoic and without personal goals" concept.

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#16: Feb 10th 2024 at 11:54:22 AM

I don't mind keeping the original definition in one form or another, but not expanding and keeping the same name would allow misuse to fester. Meek doormats are common, but are rarely as stoic as the trope wants, and I don't think the trope has to be that strict to still be tropeworthy.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
AbsoluteRainbow Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds from Hanoi, Vietnam Since: Jul, 2023
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
#17: Feb 10th 2024 at 11:56:09 AM

~WarJay77, can you show folders commissioning the wicks we're dealing with? Just like the Evil Is Sexy case I helped you with last year?

Absolute Rainbow
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#18: Feb 10th 2024 at 11:57:24 AM

Uh... They're on the sandbox linked. But we aren't even taking action yet.

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
AbsoluteRainbow Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds from Hanoi, Vietnam Since: Jul, 2023
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
#19: Feb 10th 2024 at 3:11:42 PM

[up] When are we releasing the sandbox?

Absolute Rainbow
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#20: Feb 10th 2024 at 3:22:01 PM

It's just a wick check. It's not being "released".

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#21: Feb 10th 2024 at 3:24:09 PM

I don't mind keeping the original definition in one form or another, but not expanding and keeping the same name would allow misuse to fester. Meek doormats are common, but are rarely as stoic as the trope wants, and I don't think the trope has to be that strict to still be tropeworthy.

I might have misinterpreted the first sentence of this post due to Ambiguous Syntax, but did you mean you're in favor of expanding (as previously discussed, only expanding to cover overly submissive characters, but not other types of misuse) while keeping the Extreme Doormat name?

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#22: Feb 10th 2024 at 3:28:43 PM

Yes. I'm in favor of expanding to the most common usage, which wouldn't require a rename since people already use it this way. But not changing the definition would I think require a rename to get the point across.

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 10th 2024 at 6:29:06 AM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
AbsoluteRainbow Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds from Hanoi, Vietnam Since: Jul, 2023
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
#23: Feb 13th 2024 at 3:02:19 AM

Then it's decided. [tup] Please expand.

Absolute Rainbow
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
ry4n Since: Jan, 2014
#25: Feb 16th 2024 at 7:05:54 AM

I think it should be expanded, but the name should just be doormat.


Total posts: 41
Top