To-do list:
- Move examples that fit at least one of the tropes on the Darth Vader Clone disambiguation page if they fit (which may mean moving to more than one trope), and remove ones that don't.
Original post:
Darth Vader Clone is a trope that has been causing some confusion. People can't seem to decide if it's about the specific archetype Vader codifies, the specific appearance Vader has, or even just any character with a few of the listed traits. So I am opening this to see what exactly we can do about it, to make it more specific.Wicks Checked: 50/50
Quick Results:
- Appearance-Based: 16/50, or 32%
- Archetype-Based: 17/50 or 34%
- Assumed/Intentional Reference: 3/50 or 6%
- Only a few traits: 3/50 or 6%
- ZCE/Misc: 11/50 or 22%
- Characters.Arrowverse Mick Rory: As Chronos, he has the following: black armor, Vader Breath, disguised deep voice, and connection with a main character. Several characters have Lampshaded it, too.
- Characters.Danger 5: In the Series 2 finale he becomes a cyborg clad in black armor with a noticeable samurai influence.
- Characters.Hegemony: Just like her canon and original series counterparts, Shadow Weaver is a masked, dark-cloaked woman who happens to be the parent of a major character.
- Characters.Mega Man X Villains: He used to work for the heroes before being corrupted by an outside force, is often baritone when given a voice, and his design from the first game borrows quite a bit from Vader, from his cape, armor, and a lightsaber-like Laser Blade.
- Characters.The Night Of The Rabbit: He wears dark armor, has a deep voice, and has an ominous presence in general.
- Film.Demon Of The Lute: The titular Demon in his human form, complete with black cape, face-concealing helmet, booming, deep voice and his backstory as a Fallen Hero. Check it out
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- Film.Turbo Kid: Two of Zeus' soldiers share Vader's traits. Skeletron is Zeus' right hand man, leads his armies and wears a scary black armor, while the man who captured Apple wears a gasmask and an asian-inspired hat (though less Japanese Kabuto than Chinese, Three Storms' conical straw hat) and has a Vader Breath.
- ComicBook.Dreadstar: Z is a powerful Cyborg Wizard who wears an all-concealing Badass Cape and Cool Helmet, not to mention having a personal grudge against the main character.
- Film.Hawk The Slayer: Voltan. Wears black robes, talks in a raspy voice, has a horribly scarred face that he hides under an evil-looking helmet, etc., etc.
- Recap.Arrow S 3 E 21 Al Sahhim: Dressed in dark garb? Check. Carries a sword? Check. Fallen Hero? Check. Scary-looking Black mask? Check. Speaks in a deep voice? Check. It's no wonder Felicity calls Oliver, "Darth Oliver", upon seeing him as a member of the League of Assassins.
- Series.Legends Of Tomorrow: Chronos looks the part, with full body armor and cape, as well as having a modulated voice and being completely ruthless. Lampshaded by the two random people he encounter in the first episode who do not realize that he is not just a person in a costume.
- VideoGame.Chernobylite: The "Black Stalker" who seems to be the game's main antagonist and is the Chief of Security for the NAR wears a black gas mask and black uniform, speak with an unnaturally modulated voice, has been augmented with space-time superpowers and super-strength courtesy of NAR's human experimentation, and was once an old friend of the protagonist.
- VideoGame.Nintendo Wars: Sturm bears a considerable resemblance, with a full-face mask and a cloak that covers his body. The face mask he wears in 2 resembles Vader's helmet even more so. Von Bolt makes an interesting comparison as Palpatine, being a frail old man in black who still possesses great power despite his withered body.
- WebOriginal.I Went To Another World But Got Sent Back With My Party: Alton de Camaresensia, a.k.a. the Black Knight. Anti-Villain, check. Dark armor, check. Distant cousin of Cecily, check. Fallen Hero, check. Magic Knight, check. Prosthetic limb, check. Reforged into a Minion by Arcturus, check.
- WebVideo.Troopers: Dread Lord Sinister is one. Wears all black, a cape, a face-concealing helm and surrounded by white-clad Dread Troopers.
- WesternAnimation.Ronal The Barbarian: Lord Volcazar wears an all-black armor including a face-concealing helmet and a cape, and is a Bad Boss not unlike the original Vader. The main difference is his seedy, somewhat high pitched voice.
- The Descendants of Cain: The lineages of both Cain and Abel from Bible have lasted for centuries and the two have been in conflict with each other. Dracula descends from Abel while Lucien is from Cain.
- Characters.A Plague Tale Innocence: Black armor, black cloak, right-hand man for a sinister old man, face hidden under a helmet, heavy authoritative voice, treats his underlings like crap, happy to slaughter children, wants to convince one of the heroes to join their side and special heat-emanating sword. Nicholas' armor also makes him resemble a late medieval version of Vader clone Darth Revan right down to having a similar-looking mask. The fact that he works for the Inquisition makes him more akin to the Grand Inquisitor from Star Wars: Rebels. In terms of overall personality, he is far less redeemable than Vader.
- Characters.Crimson: Although he lacks the typical armor and disfigurement associated with this trope, he fits the trope pretty nicely: a black-clad magic user who works with the Big Bad, has certain virtues that sets him apart from other villains and makes him more complex and its revealed he also used to be The Chosen One to destroy Lisseth, but he ended up siding with her instead. In addition, he also arrives to aid Alex defeat her though he doesn't pull off a Heel–Face Turn.
- Characters.Jade Empire: The all-covering armour with masked helmet, attacking mutely and ruthlessly, and his position as the Empire's enforcer with suggestions he may have more power than the ailing, palace-bound emperor. He's also related to two of the protagonists, and he kills the person who hid one of them when they were an infant.
- Characters.Naruto Nagato: Grievous injuries? Check, if you count loss of leg use. Evil Sounds Deep? Check. The Dragon to the Big Bad (who is another Darth Vader Clone)? Check again. Freudian Excuse? Check check. It even went the extra mile, with Pain battling his former teacher, Jiraiya, and being responsible for the man's death. What he has that the other Darth Vader Clone lacks is a Heel Realization shortly before death, an iconic Leitmotif, being related to The Hero, and being able to emotionally crush The Hero while he's on the ropes.
- Characters.Shining Force: The first major character encountered by the heroes, a Malevolent Masked Man working as The Dragon to an even more sinister Satanic Archetype. Wields the same weapon, a sword, as Max, and is revealed to be his brother.
- Characters.Sky High 2005: Black armor and cape? check. Voice-altering helmet? check. A Fallen Hero? check. Magic Knight? Almost in terms of technopathy. A colleague to the protagonist's mentor? Well, she used to be a schoolmate to Will's parents. Will incorrectly concluded Gwen wanted to avenge her mother (the previous Royal Pain) a lot like how the death of Anakin Skywalker's wife was the final push to him becoming Darth Vader, but it's subverted since Sue is Gwen.
- Characters.Tangled Varian: For starters, he tends to wear a mask that makes him look and sound intimidating. In terms of his character, he is a gifted, aspiring individual, but not without faults, some of which causes others to lack faith in him. Said lack of faith causes him to take determined, yet questionable acts that only build up to his fall. His fall is sealed when he loses a loved one, with said loss contributed to by his own actions. And for added flavor, the weapon he fights with is red. In the Season 3 premiere, Varian attempts to take this further by adopting a black longcoat and wearing his goggles and a scary teeth mask to look threatening. But, Varian being an emotionally unstable Nerd in Evil's Helmet who tried too hard to look intimidating brings to mind Kylo Ren.
- Characters.The Lion Guard: He begins to show a number of resemblances to Vader throughout Season 2, in that he has a complex motivation, a desire for food, but also a desire for respect, speaks in a deep voice, serves as The Dragon to the resurrected spirit of Scar, he seems to have feelings for Jasiri, and during the Season 3 opener, he defects and plays a crucial role in aiding the defeat of Scar. This is shown when he tries multiple times to avoid going after Jasiri under Scar's orders.
- Characters.Wild Arms 1: Ziekfried wears dark armor, helmet and has a cape. He is the second-in-command to the Big Bad, whom he ultimately betrays. He is also related to Rudy, to a degree, as Rudy is a Holmcross. Also, like Vader, Zeikfried causes the hero to lose a hand (in Rudy's case, an arm) during the confrontation where their connection is revealed.
- Fanfic.Dark Studios Kids Next Door: Starting in SISTERS, Vladmir Potov becomes this: a no-nonsense villain with an imposing presence and a personal shuttle who serves as the Big Bad's second in command. Of course, given he doesn't fight, he may be more of a Tarkin Clone...
- Fanfic.The End Of Ends: Count Logan, which is unsurprising considering he's an Expy of Count Bleck who also qualifies for this trope. He wears mostly black, has a cape and mask, is revealed to be someone close to the heroes (Beast Boy), and was Driven to Villainy for reasons regarding to Terra. Also, one of the atrocities he commits over the course of the fic is destroying an entire planet. Additionally, his constant Wangsting can bring to mind Vader's more infamous moments from the Prequel-Era, so Count Logan is effectively an unintentional parody of a Darth Vader Clone.
- Film.Dracula The Dark Prince: Wraith, a large Black Knight that serves as Dracula's muscle. He used to be a little boy that was resurrected as a imposing demon in dark armor and horned helmet that enforces his will. Hell, he is even introduced butchering the female heroines' Crusader allies similarly to Darth Vader attacking the Princess Leia's Rebels in A New Hope's opening.
- Literature.Axioms End: Obelus is a hulking villain who serves as The Heavy of the story, is related to one of the main protagonists, has dark powers, and is a former member of the group that he is attempting to exterminate
- Literature.Wraith Knight: More like a Witch King of the Nazgul clone with Word of God backing it up. Still, Jacob is also a Fallen Hero of a monster-hunting organization who is also a Magic Knight and The Blacksmith.
- Series.Captain Power And The Soldiers Of The Future: Lord Dread. While he doesn't wear a helmet, his black armor and cybernetic body certainly fit the trope. He is also troubled by still-human motives, his remaining flesh is disfigured/pale, he was the colleague and murderer of Captain Power's father, he is subordinate to the setting's true Big Bad (Overmind), and the one time he and Captain Power actually fight in person, he manages to kick the good Captain's ass. Seriously, this guy looks (and acts) like the bastard son of Darth Vader and the Borg.
- WesternAnimation.Chris Colorado: Thanatos is a dark and imposing masked cyborg who serves as a main antagonist and is revealed that he (as the second Thanatos to be exact) is the hero's father.
- Characters.Star Mares: Most tropes that apply to Darth Vader also apply to her. A series based on Star Wars, in a folder for a character named Dark Feather.
- ComicStrip.Brewster Rockit Space Guy: Dirk Raider is a take off of Darth Vader, though the man himself shows up now and again. Dirk Raider has his own stormtroopers and a giant sphere, the Death Moon (that's no moon). Not only is he similar in appearance to Darth Vader (although his helmet is more similar to Boba Fett), he even has a similar backstory to Vader's Start of Darkness in Revenge of the Sith. A notable difference, however, is that Dirk Raider's more of a Card-Carrying Villain instead of a complex character.
- WebVideo.Koibu: Darth Umbra is based on Darth Vader
- Anime.Steamboy: Ray's father Eddy is injured in a steam accident. He then takes some steam enhancements to heal himself, turning him into the Steampunk equivalent of a cyborg. He's also the main driving force of the Steam Castle.
- Characters.BBC Robin Hood: Shades of this only, but he's physically imposing, standing noticeably taller than almost everyone else besides John, perpetually clad in black, has a deep and sinister voice courtesy of Richard Armitage, and serves (in seasons one and two at least) as the enforcer for the Big Bad. It's the "shades of this" part that lands this here.
- Characters.Harry Potter Severus Snape: He appears as constant thorn in The Hero's side throughout the series, speaks with a deep voice, using a cold but very authoritative tone, projects a primarily stoic demeanour, but can get mad at the drop of a hat, known for using signature cutting spell and provides disturbing revelations to The Hero (namely that his father was not quite as great as everyone told him he was), deals out a Curb-Stomp Battle to The Hero, loved The Hero's mother since they were children, but caused her death through his selfish actions, albeit here it's entirely one-sided unrequited love, and having played his part in the Big Bad's downfall, he dies in the arms of The Hero, earning his redemption. Likewise, similar to Vader, in terms of appearance, his Black Cloak and helmet-shaped black hair make his silhouette similar to Vader.
- Characters.Flash Gordon 1980: At least looks-wise. Action-wise, not so much since he barely puts up a fight when Flash and Barin kill him.
- Characters.Gemstones Villains: Invokes this due to his appearance.
- Characters.My Time At Portia: Trope-Name Only Example
- ComicBook.Micronauts: Baron Karza.
- Literature.Vorkosigan Saga: Completely inverted for Mark, who discovers in Mirror Dance that his biological father, while not perfect, was far from being the Depraved Bisexual Darth Vader Clone that Mark had been brought up to believe.
- Series.Titans 2018: Trigon and Slade, probably DC's most infamous examples, though none of them touch the epic-scale manipulations of their comic counterparts.
- VideoGame.Animaniacs: Stage 2 features Dume Rayder, who is the second cousin of Ike Skywriter. Collecting his helmet is the goal of this stage.
- VideoGame.Przygody Reksia: just as described above and below, plus fabulous Vader Breath
- VideoGame.Xenogears: Grahf, a "Man in Black" piloting a gear full of weird components...
- WebAnimation.Worlds Apart: Varek fits this trope to a T.
- YMMV.Blue Submarine No 6: Mutio is a Minion with an F in Evil that works for a Psychopathic Manchild Darth Vader Clone with daddy issues.
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 16th 2022 at 6:37:12 AM
How sweet it is
Opened for discussion.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
I have two ideas how we can fix this:
1. Require confirmation that the character was a deliberate copy. This can include Word of God admission or In-Universe acknowledgement.
2. We come up with a list of characteristics that every Darth Vader Clone must have. Examples would only count if they fit all those characteristics.
Angry babby
I'd rather rework it to be an archetype trope but I'm not sure what the root of the archetype is. Is it the helmet? The voice? The telekinesis? These all seem covered by other tropes.
Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 26th 2021 at 9:49:23 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I don't know. I did the wick check and I had no idea where to go with the information I'd collected. For full transparency, it was done as part of this effort so we could see whether or not Darth Vader Clone was an archetype or an appearance trope, and obviously, results are mixed.
Perhaps we can split it into two separate trope for the archetype and the appearance?
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Are there any existing examples that fit either of the criteria you listed on point 1? We'd need to have some if we redefined it that way (similarly to how making tropes IUEO requires in-universe examples to already exist).
As for point 2, I think requiring a character to have every trait listed in a set of traits would make it easier to tell which characters count (but again, that would depend on how many examples we have that fit such criteria).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 26th 2021 at 11:07:28 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
the Retromancer
All Fountain of Expies generally have a problem of having a lot of common attributes listed, but only a few of them are actually used in examples.
For the appearance traits, Black Knight pretty much covers it.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Here's an example of the connection being lampshaded:
- Characters.Arrowverse Mick Rory: As Chronos, he has the following: black armor, Vader Breath, disguised deep voice, and connection with a main character. Several characters have Lampshaded it, too.
In all fairness, a lot of the misuse seems to stem from fictional villains sharing common traits.
Fallen Hero + Badass Cape + Cool Helmet / Cool Mask = DVC
the Retromancer
I'm thinking the appearance examples could be moved to Black Knight (or a new Evil Wears Black trope?), ZCE elaborated, and for the trope to have fewer requirements (PlayingWith.Darth Vader Clone is a good reference point, The Heavy + Noble Demon + Rage Helm + Connected All Along + Tragic Villain?)
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Maybe one way we could do a crowner (once the Three-Day Rule is in effect, so at least the 29th, but probably later since we haven't had much discussion) is like the one for Pivotal Boss, in that we decide whether we trope individual elements (in this case, the tropes listed in the two posts above this one) instead of using one trope for them. (I'm aware that the Pivotal Boss crowner was downvoted and the change was rejected; since that's the only time I'm aware we've had a crowner like that, I couldn't think of any other examples.)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Nov 28th 2021 at 3:16:36 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
What would the crowner options be?
The issue with turning this trope into an archetype is that I'm pretty sure we have this covered with other tropes. Darth Vader Clone is really just a collection of existing tropes that when taken together signify that someone is copying Darth Vader.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
It's been a little while, but I'm pretty sure the actual original reason for the wick check was because we were trying to decide if DVC was an actual Expy Trope or a character archetype that Vader just happened to be an example of. A lot of expy tropes have more weight in the appearance of the character, whereas an archetype can look like anything as long as they fit the story role.
With the results being so... mixed, all it told us was that nobody knew what DVC was "meant" to be.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Veteran Editor IV
At this point, this may be worth cutting/disambiguating honestly...
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
It seems to me that any examples must at least have originated after Star Wars. E.g. It's pretty ridiculous to call Doctor Doom a "Darth Vader Clone" when he both predated Vader and doesn't have that many traits in common beyond having a cape, an armored suit with a mask that hides his disfigurement, and being a "dark lord" of some kind.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
That's true if this actually is an Expy thing and not just an archetype Vader codified.
I go more in depth at the thread I've already linked, but basically by biggest gripe with Expy Tropes is that they make a lot of assumptions about where the trope originated, why people use it, and what it's "supposed" to be. This trope makes the assumption that:
- The trope started with Vader
- People are intentionally copying Vader
- It's supposed to be about Vader expies
When, in actuality, it might just be that the trope predates Vader and he's just the most recognizable example as well as the one that popularized the archetype. It also might be that Vader did indeed create the archetype, but that the examples aren't actually mimicking him so much as just drawing inspiration from him.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
A lot of these Fountain of Expies subtropes are really examples of Trope Codifiers. In this case, both Vader and Doom are disfigured villains who wear similar masks. Doom came first, but Vader is definitely more iconic. Instead of recognizing that these works share similar tropes, tropers are assuming that these characters are deliberate copies of each other.
Angry babby
Do we have a trope for disfigured villains wearing masks as visual shorthand for evil?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Very Spooky
There’s this TLP draft.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
It would be a Single Prop for whether we should deprecate Darth Vader Clone in favor of troping the individual elements listed here and here. Something similar was tried for Pivotal Boss (that one was rejected, but as I said, I couldn't think of any other times we did a vote like that).
the Retromancer
I'm in favor for it, let me confirm:
Split Darth Vader Clone into independent appearance and role tropes (yes/no), decide subtropes later:
- "Full-body dark costume" (Evil Wears Black + Cool Helmet / Rage Helm / Cool Mask + Badass Cape + Tin Tyrant? + Fallen Hero?)
- "Recurring masked villain is revealed to be connected to the heroes and was one at some point" (The Heavy + Fallen Hero + Noble Demon / Enigmatic Minion + Connected All Along)
i think we should set a rule for all expy tropes that the character must exist after said character first appeared. i hope that made sense.
Edited by namra on Nov 28th 2021 at 6:00:02 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Again, that only means anything if the trope actually is about expies. We need to actually figure them out on a case-by-case-basis.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Crown Description:
What should be done with Darth Vader Clone?
To-do list:
Original post:
Darth Vader Clone is a trope that has been causing some confusion. People can't seem to decide if it's about the specific archetype Vader codifies, the specific appearance Vader has, or even just any character with a few of the listed traits. So I am opening this to see what exactly we can do about it, to make it more specific.Wicks Checked: 50/50
Quick Results:
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 16th 2022 at 6:37:12 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.