Hero Critique Thread (Because it's about damn time for this too!)

@iowaforever: I know I'm incredibly late, but thanks for the critique. To be fair, I did leave some of the details out due to spoilers. But, I know he needs some refining.

To clarify about hatred as fatal flaw, it makes Joseph go full berserk against the target of his hatred, as well as lead to the situation getting worse. Also, right now I would add "wish to become a hero" (i.e. be loved by everybody and save everybody) as his another fatal flaw. Joseph Stark is ridden with guilt, but his craving to be loved, to become a hero prevents him from developing I Work Alone stance. All of this leads to most of his friends dying and him losing sanity.

Bran sounds like very interesting guy. You can do a lot of neat stuff with what you have. I don't have much else to say execpt keep going at it.

(Sorry to post again so soon after my last charecter, but this thread has been dead for awhile.)

Here's a character for cartoon idea I've had for awhile.

Name: Claire Shaw.

Age: 16

Apperance: A short werewolf girl with brown fur covering her body, and a tail. She has large red sneakers, jeans with a leather belt, and a blue shirt with a black leather jacket. Her pants have a hole in the back for her tail. Her right ear has a gold earring, and a piece of her left ear is missing due to being shot off with a silver bullet.

Personality: Crude and rude, Claire is a Knight in Sour Armor at her best, and is a Punch-Clock Hero at her worst. She commits occasonal acts of juvienile delquincy, skips school on several occasions, and trolls internet forums. However, she does draw the line at bullying small children, and deep down, she's an intelligent young woman whom's a complete and utter Daddy's Girl to her adoped father, and, had she experinced a better early life, would've achived a lot more. She is able to solve complex problems and has an appreciation for pulpy crime literature. Just about everything she says has a sarcastic tone.

Abilities: Claire is quick on her feet, and is very stealthy, being adept at crawling through vents, windows, and along the floor. Being a werewolf, she has an impressive sense of smell and hearing. Her claws are sharp, making them great weapons. She has a healing factor,

Weaknesses: Claire is quick to anger, and is at a disadvantage due to her height. Being revativly new at detective work, not all her deductions are accurate and she often needs someone to bounce her ideas off of. In the classic werewolf tradition, she has a weakness to silver and wolfsbane, and her healing factor does not work against them.

Backstory: Claire lives in a city within a seemingly endless pocket dimension created by a mysterious goverment agency. Dubbed "Specter City" by its inhabitints, it is a place made to hide supernatural and paranormal creatures from mankind. The citizens of Specter City are left to their own devices, and are able to form their own communities, elections, and laws, though it is offically a territory of the United States.

Much of Claire's backstory is unknown, even to herself. She mysterously appeared unconcious in a parking lot at the age of five. With no documentaion or family, Claire was a ward of the state until the age of thirteen. After a series of disruptive and destructive behaviors, she was place in Laura Talbot's home for wayward girls, an orphange and reform school for juvenile delinquints. It was during her time there that she befriended Lily Todd, a young witch. An avid reader, Claire began reading mystery novels, her favorites of which usually featured a Hard Boiled Detective. Using the skills she learned from these books, she became something of an informant, finding out gossip, test answears, and pop quizs dates, and selling the information to other students. One day, Lily's room was found ransacked, and Lily was missing. The headmaster at first found nothing strange, running away being common. However, after two weeks with no sign, he hired Victor Shaw, a vampire and Private Detective, to investigate Lily's dissapperance. Wanting to find Lily, and to fufill her dream of solving a true mystery, she pesters Shaw let her help, to which he reluctantly agrees.

After a variety of hijinks, fistfights, shoot outs, (during which she lost a piece of her ear.) and car chases, the bad guys were brought to justice, but the matter is not entirely resolved: Lily has still not been found.

While initially annoyed by her presense, Victor quickly became attached to her, and adopted her, allowing her into his home.

While Victor has moved on since the Lily Todd case, (having accepted long ago that sometimes you just can't win.) Claire is still determined to find her friend, and to one day to learn the truth.

Role in the story: Supporting Protagonist.

Relavent tropes:

Action Girl.

Amateur Sleuth.

Anti-Hero.

Ascended Fan Boy: A female example. Gets to team up with, and is eventully adopted by, a man very much like the characters she admires.

Bad Ass Book Worm.

Because You Were Nice to Me: One of the reasons she latched on to Victor is that he is the first adult to really treat her with respect.

Black-and-Grey Morality: Clare is far from perfect.

Book Dumb: Despite her obvious intelligence, she has some of the lowest grades in the class.

Brilliant, but Lazy

Cute Monster Girl

Daddy's Girl: To Victor. She frequently reccomends his services to friends, and spams his competitors with false one star reviews

Deadpan Snarker.

Ear Notch: From a stray silver bullet.

Everyone Has Standards: Despite her flaws, she never picked on smaller children, and never took part in any serious crimes.

Freudian Excuse: Her bad experences in the system had much to do with her current personality

Happily Adopted.

Healing Factor: As long as it's not silver or wolfsbane

Hidden Depths: A petty criminal and apparent lost cause who has a gift for investigative work.

Huge Guy, Tiny Girl: A non romantic example with Victor. He's a tall six feet and four inches, while she's five feet and two inches.

I Just Want To Be Bad Ass: One of the reasons she fantasized about the detectives she read about, is that they had the nerve and drive she desired.

Private Eye Monologue: Comically subverted. She tries these, but they just get more and more nonsensical and difficult to come up with, and so she quits halfwaythrough.

Our Were Wolves Are Different: Is in wolf form at all times, and is in control of her mental facilities.

Took a Level in Kindness: Mellowed out a bit after being adopted.

edited 1st Nov '17 5:07:32 PM by n341100

Sounds like a fun character, I wonder what is the tone of said story, Black Comedy? Dark tragedy?.

What are the plans for her development?

Also, for curiosity, this might be a good place to put a entire Organization? Like The Alliance or The Kingdom, both are heroic of course (albeit both are pretty debatable)

edited 3rd Nov '17 8:09:25 PM by KazuyaProta

I don't see why not, though I wouldn't reccomending describing each and every member individualy, atleast not in the same post.

I mean as a group

Name: The Divine Alliance

Age: Thousands of years. Too much to be fully understand for humans

Personality: The Divine Alliance is an organization made for several Deities on the past, usually being Father Patriarch Gods, deities like Odin, Zeus and the Olympians, the Angels, the Amatsukami and a lot more of entitities. Including The Reptilians. Yes. The Reptilians and a lot more of weird things.

Abilities: Its massive army, the lots of alliances of Physical God s, several strong mortal warriors and a good bunch of good leaders.

Weaknesses: They rely a lot in long-term plans; stuff like For Want Of A Nail can ruin them. Their first real crisis managed to destroy them and separate their member around The Multiverse

Goals: Take Over the World to save it. Usually by finding The Singularity, they already have try some simulations using dead human souls (what we call Heaven) but they never managed to force it in a world.

Motivation: Initially, necessity of alliances to beat the old King of Gods Marduk, then genuine teamwork to build a better government around the multiverse in general. Avoid the return of magic in all universes as much as possible (unless they want to start The Singularity).

Backstory: Founded for Yahweh thousands of years ago in order to stop Marduk plan to syncronizate the multiverse and pull it closer to the Abbys, something that will put the reality in danger and prolonging the age of heroes and gods. The Alliance stopped Marduk and his kingdom, Yahweh took control of what was left and then they started a plan to take over the multiverse while finding potential allies; they want avoid the return of magic to all worlds or control it to accelerate their plans. They have take over thousands of worlds, instituted puppet governments on them in some way or other, they have won…until Lucifer came back from hell, joined all the gods that were defeated for The Divine Alliance and started a series of revolutions that were knew as The Day of the Fallen. He killed Yahweh himself using the Tower of Babel as a weapon to cast magic powerful enough to do it and then he left to control his own Kingdom. Now, they are a Vestigial Empire trying to revive their God King, seeing how their conquered worlds ignore them as nothing had happened, their members leaves them for their own realms and worlds and their original founders, the angels are left alone still trying to fulfil their mission, helped occasionally only for some remnant members of the Alliance

Relevant Tropes:

The Empire: A Well-Intentioned Extremist example, they are clearly mean to give the image of the trope, they even have the Lizard Folk at their side! The fact that they can perfectly be The Federation, The Empire or even The Kingdom depending of who is talking is a huge part of their characterization.

A Lighter Shade of Grey: The whole story is fill with several agencies in a massive cosmical Morality Kitchen Sink, the Heavenly Alliance is far from being perfect as how they claim to be, but they are a huge force of progress and peace around The 'Verse, stopping metaphysical disasters of all types and helping societies develop in security (unless their progress represent a menace to them). They are not only the less bad option for a Utilitarian point of view, they are straight up GOOD.

Order Versus Chaos: They are clearly the Order to the Chaos of the Kingdom of The Old Gods (ruled for demons and defeated gods). They are orderly, religious and technologic. Albeit, they conflict is actually close to-

Romanticism Versus Enlightenment: They are famous for using Magitek, their angel mooks purposely looks like robots, they control the progress of several worlds with the purpose of bringing a utopia. The Kingdom of the Old Gods is more individualistic and nature based. Strangely, the Heavenly Alliance also could be considered the middle point of the trope, when compared to the Human resistance, a group that want progress by destroying all gods and demons creating a world based “only on reason and human spirit”. Angels would willingly use both if that would help them, using religion to promote progress for example, albeit, the definition of “progress” change a lot when magic, gods and demons are real. In a sense, they are enlightened thinkers that use romanticism when it suits them.

Nature Is Not Nice: When they have fight against Nature gods and Eldritch Abomination s that embodify the cosmic nature of the reality (A Cosmic Horror Story in dressing, gods and demons exist as a medium to control it and them barely can). They obviously have resort to this mindset.

The Needsof The Many: Their Philosophy, curiously, this mindset also have led them to killing or letting die several populations, with hopes to can lead the survivors to an overall better society without trying to deal with the native population. The Logic behind it is that a semi utopian society will still have sons and grown, meaning that centuries after a “judgement”, the resulting semi utopian society will be that big and produce enough happiness to outmatch the lose lives. That is not their common method but it happens, and they will be clear that if the situation needs it, they will do everything.

Outgrown Such Silly Superstitions: Avoided, Hard. They hate unnecessary wars fought on their name (AKA. Every religious war that did not involve them directly) but they hate Straw Atheist s even more. Gods Need Prayer Badly is in full effect here.

Pro-Human Transhuman: What their “Prophets” are, humans that have angels essence on them, if the regular population believes them or not, well, that depend of how the charisma of the prophet or the angels work. It usually works as a divisive person. The Hero Brandon Harlaw is one of the few that manages to be seen as genuine Nice Guy even for his enemies, because he is a genuine Nice Guy and knows how truly manipulate the perception of him. He is not the friendliest guy, but he clearly know how to build a reputation.

Shining City: Their current capital on the Human world is Camtasia, that after the angels drop their disguises turns into one, becoming the part of the world less affected for the apocalypse physically (socially, is other story). Albeit their several enemies have plans to invade it, they are paranoid about it. They also have the City of Neo Jerusalem, which is the house of the angels and now had been turned into a half Battleship half refugee house. Losing their Father really harmed them. The only reason why is not an Arcadia is because their divine essence will destroy nature, leaving only the soul.

Chivalric Romance: They are fans of it; they are angels, obviously they like it. Specially stories about dragon slayers…

These Are Things Man Was Not Meant to Know: And that is why humans have to evolve into something better, somehow.

Totalitarian Utilitarian: Certainly, a more positive version of the trope than most but is still fit the mold.

Democracy Is Bad: And a God AI will do better, not, really, they use a AI made of one of the Pieces of God. They seems to be fine with democracies in normal circumstances, but they always use the Godlike AI to consult. In the world of the angels, the average person will probably life in a democratic anarchist life (in the real sense of anarchism as a peaceful ideology where people work together willingly while leaded only for local leaders that work as administrators at most), but angels will still prefer working for their Father.

Humans Are the Real Monsters: They believe it a lot, albeit they will accept that the trope is also exaggerated. Anyway, they want change human nature and reality for something better.

Soldier vs. Warrior: Soldier side, by a lot, while they have many individual powerful warriors, they are skilled at using their mooks to defeat several enemies via Zerg Rush and other tactics.

Fantasy Kitchen Sink: The Alliance used to be Angels and other gods of several pantheons, now the pantheons are leaving in order to work on their own reals but they are still some loyal gods. Hades, the Egyptian pantheon, a tenuous alliance with the Hindu patheon via Vishnu. And this is when they are a Vestigial Empire.

edited 13th Nov '17 4:04:45 PM by KazuyaProta

It's been a long time since I've been here and I've missed it! The Alliance is...certainly interesting, especially when you think of an organization made up of multiple gods, some of whom have mythologies and teachings that counter one another when you think of the Real Life religions they are from.

Still, I think you did a pretty good job of it. In terms of morality, they seem to be more pragmatic than anything else; their goal is to make a paradise for humanity and they'll do it whoever they can, no matter what the cost. It's certainly an admirable goal.

I like it, but I can't really give specific reasons why I do, if that makes sense. Probably someone else needs to comment on this, who hasn't been absent from this forum for such a long time...

.Well here goes. Not really sure how "heroic" this guy is, but he is definitely a protagonist, so here he is.

• Name: William "Will" Ellson

• Age: 29

• Appearance: Will is on the tallish side, standing at 5'10 with a toned and wiry build due to a diligent workout routine. His black hair is kept short, albeit shaggy and his eyes are light brown, almost amber colored. His face is framed by long sideburns and a jagged knife scar crosses from his right cheek to the bridge of his nose. His clothing choices tend to be whatever helps him blend in at the moment, from old baggy jeans and work-shirts to expensive suits.

• Personality:

As a child, Will had a boundless imagination. He would often pour through books of sword-and-sorcery fantasies and loved to reenact those fictional exploits with his friends. He would spend great amounts of time making up his own stories and was undaunted when some of his activities brought teasing and bullying. When his powers manifested, Will was at first terrified and then overjoyed; he believed that it was his responsibility to use them for good, and to perhaps help humanity learn more about the nature of the universe.

As an adult, Will is shamelessly cynical, laid back and mistrustful of almost anyone except himself—and he doesn't even trust his own judgment on bad days. He views his unique powers as a way for him to amass wealth and cares little for the people he steals from, objectifying them as walking talking "treasure chests". He uses this wealth to indulge a hedonistic lifestyle, parties, drugs, women and men... he does it all. Despite this, he does have a small but rigid set of rules: Will refuses to kill anyone, and will not steal from people he feels will be truly hurt by the loss. Thinking about the events that led to him becoming the way he is rather than a hero cause him a great deal of distress and his copious usage of drugs and alcohol are a way of keeping that pain repressed.

• Abilities: With concentration, Will can move back and forth between his world and a number of alternate Earths. These other worlds can range from nearly similar to his own Earth, albeit with a few almost unnoticeable changes, to worlds with vast differences in technology, political climate and even the species that live there, varying according to his imagination. While in the other worlds, Will is nearly unnoticeable to the people living there. Despite this, he can affect the world around him and can even bring objects from those Earths to his own reality when he decides to return. Will often uses this power to travel to other realities and steal valuables from the inhabitants there, returning to his world to sell them, allowing him to be a nearly perfect thief while avoiding any trouble with law enforcement or The Echelon. He is also capable of bringing at least one other person with him on these journeys, but he has only done it once and never again.

• Weaknesses: Will has to—literally—think very carefully about the time he spends in other worlds. If he does not imagine that an hour spent there is an hour passing in his world, then he could return to his world weeks or even months later. Being unnoticed by the inhabitants of the other worlds can be dangerous, leading to him almost being hit by a car more than once, or other equally bad situations stemming from neglect. Because of his mostly non-violent way of doing things, Will has very little in the way of actual defenses. He can throw a punch or two but all he knows is wild swinging and what little he's seen in action movies. If beings from the other worlds are present in his world, he is just as noticeable to them as any other person and subject to their reactions.
  • However his worst weakness is that every time he uses his ability, he is unknowingly building one more piece of a "bridge" allowing the Changeling to enter his universe and feed upon all who live there.

• Goals: Originally to be a superhero in The Echelon. Later it is to simply keep his head down and mind his own business, while mindlessly amassing treasure and wealth. Once it becomes clear that he holds the secret behind the extra-dimensional invasion of Earth, he reluctantly partners with the organization to aid them in saving the universe.

• Role in the Story: Will doesn't appear for some time, but events in his past are the key to understanding the Fearful Liberator's invasion of Earth and stopping it before the Changeling enters through the hole she tore in time and space.

• Backstory:

Will Ellson was born in a small town in Indiana in 2032 in the midst of a second large economic slump that had swept across the United States. He barely knew his biological father; the man had been an engineer who had left his pregnant wife and older son for parts unknown the moment he had gotten the notice he was laid off. Will's mother tried to raise him and his older brother Clark as best as she could on a gas-station attendant's salary, which meant that they often went without. Will was an imaginative boy, often reading fantasy books, and he found like minded friends soon enough. Despite being targeted by bullies and plagued by poverty Will was undaunted and lived a relatively good life.

All of this changed one night when Will was ten years old. He was asked to take the trash out outside to the cans behind his family's small house.Though disgruntled at being taken from his latest book, Will obeyed his mother and went outside into the dark. However he soon found himself in pitch blackness and ran to the first light he saw. Will was shocked to see a small campfire with medieval soldiers sitting around it, discussing matters in a foreign language. After gathering up his courage, he approached them tentatively, but they were unable to see or hear him it seemed. Fleeing into the darkness of a large forest, Will wandered until the sun rose.

Finding the forest more daunting in the daylight than at night, Will huddled near a fallen log and prayed to find home again. He was next aware that he was lying on the grass of his backyard, and people were screaming at him. In the next few days, he found out that he had been missing for four weeks. Will's explanations for his disappearance were brushed off as trauma despite his insistence and his "evidence"—a handful of grass and dirt from the other world.

Will stuck to his story about the other place he had seen, and soon pity turned to irritation as people grew tired of hearing it. Even his own friends began to regard him as strange, thinking that he had taken their games a little too far. They began to avoid him, first slightly and then overtly. It hurt, but Will was too consumed with what had happened to truly give in to that pain. Alone he began to focus on other things, namely the stories of The Echelon, the legion of superheroes who protected the cities under their watch time and time again. He began to admire them and wondered what it would be like to be one.

A year later Will vanished again, this time from his own room and with his brother Clark to witness it. Will almost died this time, drowning beneath a vast ocean and he reappeared a day later wet and gasping for air. It was then that his mother took him to the closest Echelon base in Chicago, demanding that their experts try to figure out what was wrong with her son. It was through their experimenting and tutelage that Will was able to begin to control his power, using his concentration to appear and then return from other worlds as he wished. When asked if he would like to consider becoming a candidate when he was older, the boy agreed.

Returning to town, Will went back to his normal life, promising that he would not use his power without supervision and keeping that promise for the most part. When Will was fifteen he developed his first crush on a girl named Bethany, and slowly found that she liked him too. They began to date; she liked his imagination and his sense of humor, and he liked her knowledge of old music and prowess at skateboarding. However Bethany's best friend, another girl named Macie did not approve. She distrusted Will and furthermore she distrusted boys in general. She was often outspoken about social issues and Will did not like her, though he tried to be polite for Bethany's sake.

One day while in the town's park, a group of older teens challenged Bethany to a contest of sorts with their skateboards. She accepted, though Will was nervous fearing she would have an accident, especially without a helmet. However as he tried to talk her out of it, Macie talked over him, angrily stating that he was trying to control Bethany’s life.

Will’s protests that he was just trying to watch out for his girlfriend went unheard. Unwilling to hear them fighting again, Bethany went on to the teens and began to skate with them up and down the park’s ramps. However it was not long before she fell at an awful angle and hit her head on the pavement. She was rushed to the hospital but was pronounced brain-dead soon afterwards.

Will was first filled with horror, then sadness…and then rage. He confronted Macie in the hospital parking lot and screamed at her about her interference. He blamed her for Bethany’s condition and demanded to know why she did it. However while Macie was upset at what happened to Bethany, she refused to agree that she was at fault. She instead stated that she was right and that Will was controlling and would have started abusing her sooner or later.

The rage in Will reached its boiling point and he grabbed her, using his power to take them to another world, an endless desert where modern civilization had ended in war and fire. It was a world where the strong survived and the weak served or died…and where most women suffered horrific fates at the hands of local warlords. Will explained all of this to the terrified Macie before returning to his own world and leaving her there to die or worse. In the days that followed, the true horror of what he had done began to sink in, but he could not return to the nightmare world he had entered, it remained beyond his reach for some reason. Will rejected the offer from The Echelon to be a hero-in-training and eventually dropped off the radar of the organization entirely. He became just another promising candidate who had come to nothing.

Relevant Tropes:

• A God I Am Not: Will vehemently tries to stress this, reacting in horror when it is revealed that he has been creating worlds by imagining them into existence rather than just traveling to existing ones. It doesn't stop everyone involved from treating him differently than they did before the revelation, though the nature of this new treatment varies. Some of the denizens of the worlds still have a fervent belief that he is of divine origin.

• Alternate Universe: He is capable of traveling into these at will. It is a never before seen ability, and it took a long time for the doctors, metaphysicians, and various scientists The Echelon had in their employ to understand Will's gift. Even then they were unable to really do anything to help him other than to teach him concentration techniques to moderate his power.
  • Alternate History: Several of the worlds Will has visited have some variation of these; in one of them John Kerry won the 2004 American presidential election; in another World War I never happened, and in yet another the Holy Roman Empire still existed in 2016 as a Vestigial Empire.

• All the Other Reindeer: Downplayed at first. Will's interest in fantasy and his habits of acting it out as a kid made him a target for bullies, but he had a group of friends to back him up so that things didn't get too out of hand. After his first disappearance, he suffered this a bit more, with even his friends thinking he was either crazy or trying really hard to get attention.

• Arms Dealer: Of the Gangland Gun-Runner type. Of the many thing's Will has stolen from other worlds, guns are definitely on the list; at many points in his career he has traveled to worlds with a high amount of political unrest and guns in surplus, spiriting them off to be used by his clients in his home reality.

• Bi The Way: His liaisons with various escorts, models or socialites have included both men and women.

• Clap Your Hands If You Believe: The true nature of his power is to create alternate realities based upon his imagination; every world he's ever visited is a figment of his mind made real.

• Create Your Own Villain: Will is responsible for the creation of the Fearful Liberator. Macie was forced to become the warlord-turned-Multiversal Conqueror and eventual champion of the Changeling to survive and implement her own version of "justice".

• Death World: He left Macie on one, created out of his complete hatred for her in that moment and tailored to be her worst nightmare. He believes that he condemned her to death, rape, slavery or all three by doing it, and is haunted by the thought of what she endured before her eventual death. His reaction to finding out that she is very much alive is first complete incomprehension and then vehement denial. And things only get worse from there...

• Dueling Scar: Will has a nasty, jagged scar on his right cheek that extends to the bridge of his nose. He often tells potential bed partners some engaging story about getting it in a bar fight, but the truth is that the incident is the result of being violently mugged while staggering home one night from a bar.

• Even Bad Men Love Their Mamas: The only person who knows what Will is using his powers for is his mother, who disproves greatly, lamenting that he could have been a hero, but accepts his decision as something that she cannot stop. However their ideological differences, Will is never anything but loving and polite to her and when she develops cancer, he puts a great deal of money towards her treatment.

• Heel–Face Turn: Played with. Will slowly realizes just how much damage his reckless use of his powers has caused, but he doesn't even consider changing his way of life even with an interdimensional army pouring into the Earth's cities. He's been doing his "job" for years and has built up a client base of very dangerous people after all. It's only after he makes the connection between the Changeling and the voice which spoke to him during his days in training that he really begins to evaluate himself.

• Ironic Hell: He created one for Macie by dumping her into a world somewhere between Mad Max and The Handmaid's Tale and leaving her there to suffer.

• Living MacGuffin: Will is sought after by all the sides who understand that his powers play a role in the planet-wide conflict, all for varying reasons. Some think killing him will bring the crisis to an end, others want to use him to figure out how to shut the gaping wounds in reality, while the Fearful Liberator wants to confront and kill him after all these years, viewing that as both vengeance and a symbolic victory.

• Mailer Daemon: The Changeling made contact with Will during his training at The Echelon base, when he was a child. It simply appeared to him in the form of a kind, encouraging voice that comforted him when he was afraid or frustrated. It pushed him to use his powers more and more, which eventually culminated in him being able to successfully use the control techniques being taught to him. The more he talked and acknowledged the thing, the more powerful its connection his universe became.

• Millionaire Playboy: He keeps a low profile, but Will likes to party and he has the money to throw extravagant gatherings with a pretty open guest list. He surrounds himself with beautiful women and handsome men and a great deal of drugs and alcohol.

• My God, What Have I Done?: On many levels. First about marooning Macie on the worst world he could imagine in revenge for Bethany's brain damage and eventual death. Later he realizes that he is responsible for everything going on; his powers alerted the Changeling to his universe, and provided the path to lead it there, and he set Macie up to be the monster's "champion" that it would use to enter their reality.

• Nominal Hero: At the time of the Fearful Liberator's invasion of Earth, Will is in the midst of planning another interdimensional heist for a dangerous client and wants nothing more than to go about his work. The Echelon eventually force him into helping them when Rat discovers the way Will has been laundering the money from his truly criminal clients and threatens to put him away for years.

• Phantom Thief: Because he isn't really seen or heard by the people in the alternate realities he visits, Will very easy becomes on of these when on a job. Fitting the trope, he is highly disciplined about his heists, making sure to keep himself free of any sort of mind-altering substance before making the jump to another world and not going back to his hedonistic ways until the object has been delivered to his client's hands .

• Sibling Rivalry: With his brother Clark. At first the two of them got along well, with Will having positive views of his older brother. After the incident with Macie and Bethany's death, Will withdrew into himself and went down the long downward spiral into becoming a thief. Clark on the other hand pursued a career in engineering just like their father, and eventually became a hero in The Echelon, Forge. While he cannot say for sure that Will is involved in illegal activity, his brother's lifestyle, unexplained wealth and general attitude make him suspect the worst. It has eaten away at their relationship until they barely speak anymore. However...
  • Sibling Team: They are forced into this when Snowball, Clark's partner is injured and Will is transferred into Forge's custody to escort to The Echelon's base in Hong Kong, since he is a familiar face. During the journey they air out some of their respective grievances and are at least on speaking terms by the time they arrive at their destination.

• Thou Shalt Not Kill: No matter what, he will not kill people. Not really a problem since he's never detected in the worlds he visits, but he is determined that even if he is confronted by someone looking for a fight, he will never take their life. After what happened to Macie, he is determined not to take another life even if it costs him his own.

• Reality Warping Is Not a Toy: Will's constant creation of new universes eventually linked to the Changeling's prison outside time and space. While it could not draw sustenance from these worlds, as they were not "real", it could use them as a way to travel into Will's universe, in order to feed upon all who lived in it.

edited 27th Nov '17 2:40:51 PM by Swordofknowledge

Honestly, if you wanting write a utter asshole that happens to help the heroes, then you did a fine job, I just hope that he dies a painful death. When you send a girl to a world to be raped and then you go in a lifestyle of crime and hedonism, I honestly cant feel any sympathy for him.

Also, what the eff with his powers? Creating entire permanent dimensions is not a pretty much ridiculous power for a mere guy?

Ha ha, harsh . Yes, what Will did to Macie never won't be a horrible thing—both on its own and because it turned her into the super villain threatening the world. I'm actually trying to think of how to handle the reactions of everyone (especially his brother) when he reveals the secret of what he did to her back then to be proportionate to how awful it was.

On the other hand...he was just a kid who was acting in a moment of pure rage. Sort of like how people strike out and kill a person in the heat of the moment and then regret it. Plus he really wasn't able to get her out of the Mad Max/Handmaid's Tale world even if he tried. The whole thing is why he withdrew from becoming a superhero—he feels he isn't worthy...and he really isn't.

His powers aren't really that strong, at least I didn't think so. He has little to no control over how the worlds he creates progress after he makes them, and he can't even warp reality within them. It's like they spring up fully formed from his mind and then just...sit there, existing. As for the power's origins and what it means...well there are hints that the Changeling was once like Will and that is the toll his powers take on their wielder.

Honestly, I feel that Macie becoming a supervillain is more problematic than everything, she is in every bit of right to want Will gone and destroyed, honestly, showing a girl that was raped as a supervillain just dont feels right specially when her main motivation is wanting to kill the guy that put her into such a awful situation.

That is what I mean, even if is just that, it is still a lot of power, so, he literally can create entire worlds just by thinking of it, including the crapsack worlds that he create when he is annoyed, with that power then he is basically unbeatable if he was slighty smarter. His whole power is just absurd.

edited 27th Nov '17 6:02:22 PM by KazuyaProta

Well...not sure what to say to that honestly. If it helps, Macie's goal is taking over the world, not revenge on Will (it's an objective certainly,but not her motivation). As for whether it's "problematic" to portray a rape-victim as a villain I think I'll just have to politely disagree on that one.

As for Will's powers...yes you do have a point about how overpowered it is. I may change it to the ability to just find worlds that meet his needs or desires, or I may leave it. I don't know. You have given me a lot to think about in that department.

Anyway I may post the "Fearful Liberator" in the Villains section so it may be cleared up more there..

You didnt say that the reason why Marcie wants to take over the world is because the trauma turned her into a Knight Templar obsessed with justice?

Ah I see what you mean. I thought you were implying that she was solely trying kill Will and that I was portraying her desire to as evil rather than understandable. That would be messed up. Yes, what she endured in the other world turned her into what she was, along with being corrupted by the Changeling. So yes, in that way Will is completely responsible for her becoming a villain...though that was never in doubt.

I mean, Will is the issue, I have no pity for him, you really will have to try to be sure that I feel pity for him.

Hmm maybe so. I'm definitely trying to humanize Will (as I said before, I view the incident in a similar fashion as someone murdering another person in a fit of rage and regretting it) but I want to impress upon the readers the ugliness of it...oh well, as I said a lot to work on .

Anyway thanks again you really have given me a lot to think about so thanks for the feedback!

Whoa. I think that Will is a pretty good example of the Anti-Hero concept being pushed to its very limit. On one hand, he comes off as a phenomenally awful person - but while it's easy to fall into the trap of making supposed anti-heroes do morally unjustifiable things in the name of edginess, I think you did a great job at building up the toxic mix of hardship and abuse that distorted his sense of self when it was at its most fragile. Though it's hard to like him in the way you're expected to like traditional heroes, I find him a very fascinating character overall. Fiction generally portrays people who engage in manipulation and abuse of power as uniquely monstrous, but in real life they're not. Putting all the Reality Warper stuff aside, what Will did to Macie isn't much more horrifying than what a lot of otherwise "normal" people in real life can do to one another in a fit of rage, or even as a day-to-day outlet of the toxic parts of their personalities, and I think that's a rather fantastic exploration of the banality of evil. Again, having him as a protagonist might not work for everyone - but I think that a well-done exploration of what happens when such a fundamentally broken and flawed person comes to terms with the consequences of their actions can be some truly phenomenal stuff.

That said, I have to concur with the previous comments. I find Macie's characterisation to be a lot more problematic than anything on Will's side, since it leans towards the popular yet insensitive trope of portraying rape victims "redeeming" their honour through violent revenge. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I don't know nearly as much about her - Will's characterisation works because you've shown him to be a product of his own choices and lapses of judgment as much as his environment, while Macie seems to lack agency in her own story and takes up the Evil Overlord mantle purely as a result of what Will did to her. I'm not familiar with the rest of the story, so I can't really suggest a useful fix right now - but if you're sticking with this particular plot point (no easy feat), I hope that you can make her as fleshed out and human as Will is.

This is kinda meta, but in the light of the recent discussion on the pervasiveness of sexual assault and abuse in the wider society, I think it's especially relevant to have a story told through the eyes of someone who uses their power to hurt, manipulate and abuse people. It's easy to condemn abuse, but it's a lot harder to come to terms with the fact that each and every one of us is capable of doing so unequivocally horrible.

Thanks

I wonder if this is the right place to post my own Villain Protagonist characters, they are characters that certainly see and act like the hero but they are in a situation where they simply cause more harm than good.

edited 27th Nov '17 7:36:08 PM by KazuyaProta

It really depends on the degree of their villainy, otherwise the Villain Critique Thread might be a good spot

Enough dangerous to be the Big Bad of the Act II. Probably he should be on the villain thread but given that he starts as more of less a regular hero and there is no really a static point where he "choose to be a villain"

In other stuff related to the same work.

I had the idea that my Main Male Character will have a hard time because his idealization towards his female crush, said crush is a POV character and is actually one of the three most important characters, Bran saves Misao and befriends her, then Misao saves him and is cute to him, that makes Bran likes Misao as a potential Girlfriend, after discovering Misao Dark and Troubled Past , Bran just idealize her even more. That is show as the real stone for Bran Development until Misao call him on that and reminds Bran that she is more than a cute poor woobie that Bran had to protect. Bran then realize that his ideas of relationships are messy and that Misao is a person feels rage and frustation, someone that can be nasty and even cruel.. And that he still likes her, because Misao is a person that was open to him.

I like the idea of the scene, how it sounds?

edited 28th Nov '17 4:50:45 AM by KazuyaProta

Edit: WTF happened to my post all the text vanished.

This Will character you kind of gave him a generic anti hero appearance. You may want to make him stand out a little more, unless you were doing that intentionally for some reason.

edited 2nd Dec '17 11:24:12 PM by ScotieRw

Sounds wonderful,

Name: Warren Hiedler the Bald Eagle Theriomorph/ The Apex Predator/ The Emperor of the Blood Order/ The Salvator

Age: 11

Personality: Warren Hiedler acts like a strong leader even though his is eleven years old. It is due to in fact of his villainous monster Theriomorph body after he was forced into a process by Megiddo scientists that he killed and escaped from the hospital and his Social Darwinist philosophy that you can infer from this speech:

More information about his persoanltiy can be inferred by the tropes.

Abilities: Steel Feathers, Sharp Talons, Teethed Beak, Superhuman Condition, Heat Concussion Eye Beam and Flight.

Weaknesses: His easily berserk to thoughts of Atheism and Nihilism and frequently attacks anything that is Megiddo related.

Goals: To stop the Parasite and the Megiddo criminal terrorist organization from creating a Nihilistic world of evil and chaos and create a Social Darwinist world called Maranatha. Motivation: His Social Darwinist philosophy is based off when he was human child, he admired several world changers such as Ayn Rand, Adolf Hitler, Charles Darwin, Martin Luther, Plato, Adam Smith, George Washington, Robert E. Lee and several others.

Role in the story: A 11 year old boy turned into a Theriomorph by Megiddo after he was kidnapped, he makes himself a Salvator, a Emperor and a General in a war between Megiddo and the Blood Order formed by him, Warren Hiedler.

Backstory: He was just a normal 11 year old boy kidnapped by Megiddo and turned into a Bald Eagle Theriomorph against his will. After many events with humans, he concludes humanity is weak and the world is cruel and stupid. He forms the Blood Order with other Theriomorphs and declared the Emperor.

Relevant Tropes:

• A Nazi by Any Other Name: A violent Theriomorph supremacist, he believes that the Theriomorphs are only worthy of the Kingdom Earth and the humankind must be destroyed at all costs. The Blood Order event adopts Nazi-like mannerisms, traits and policies to ensure to create a Social Darwinist World.
• A God Am I: He believes himself to be a Messiah of the New World, despite he is aware of killing people and
• All-Loving Hero: Warren cares to save all the Theriomorphs in an extremely dark and twisted way. It does not occur to humans or Megiddo.
• Anti-Hero: A very dark version occurs in Warren Hiedler as child Sociopathic Hero. He is willing to do anything to save himself and the Blood Order from anything, even if it's a Social Darwinist world he is going to make.
• Ape Shall Never Kill Ape: One of the principles that Warren Hiedler holds to Theriomorphs. However, he makes the exception to Megiddo Theriomorphs and humans.
• Apocalypse Maiden: Towards the end of the Theriomorph Chronicles, Warren Hiedler willingly orders a mass-genocide of the human race and mass-transmutation of the "little ones" to create a world where the strong rule over the weak.
• Asskicking Equals Authority: How his Social Darwinism goes to be explained and enforced to other Theriomorphs, culminating to the violent flogging of Una and the death of the Parasite.
• Ax-Crazy: Warren becomes increasingly violent and sadistic as more and more tragedies and horrors that he experience, culminating into a Hitler-esque Social Darwinist world and human extinction by Genocide.
• The Berserker: His main part to fight against Megiddo and their minions.
• Beware the Superman: Megiddo wanted to create the strongest Theriomorph in the world. So they got it, in which caused a wake of bodies in Warren Hiedler's trail and the eventual extinction of the human race.
• Black-and-White Insanity: He has shades of this, highlighting the increasingly monstrosity that he becomes at the end such as that humans and Megiddo evil and sees nothing wrong with his extremism and Social Darwinism.
• Blood Knight: Warren Hiedler is fond of slaying Megiddo minions and personnel, justifying as 'very fun' which horrifies Una, the Sheep Theriomorph who is the voice of reason.
• Cold-Blooded Torture: Warren is forcibly inflicted by the agents of Megiddo in the Island Three to just brainwash. Later, Warren adopts those methods against Megiddo and humankind as a thing for revenge.
• Combat Pragmatist: Warren is willing to do anything to win his cause, even if it means resorting to cannibalism, manipulation and complete genocide of humankind.
• Dark Messiah: He will save every Theriomorph and says it is a mission from God by doing horrible things such as destroying Washington DC, mass-murdering humans, promotion of vicious acts to Theriomorphs such as cannibalism, extremism and all sorts of violence.
• Dissonant Serenity: Shows this to Straggle Lee when he is violently attacked by the newly transmutated Sophie Harper.
• Despair Event Horizon: The reason why Warren Hiedler becomes a dark messiah in the first place. The failure of Sophie’s transmutation into a Vampire Bat Theriomorph, the cruelties of humans, the loss of his parents Roxanne and Christopher Hiedler and all of the world's evils.
• Determinator: He is the type of person. In the end, it doesn’t end alright and becomes a tragedy of extremism and monstrosity.
• From Nobody to Nightmare: The Theriomorph Chronicles tells on how a 11 year old becomes a destructor of the human species and civilization.
• Final Solution: His ultimate consequence of his plan to create a world where the strong rule over the weak, horrifying Una to create the Daughters of Liberty.
• For Great Justice: Warren believes himself as a idealistic warrior of justice but his methods are brutal and violent.
• Half-Human Hybrid: Half-human, half-animal enhanced with Megiddo's implants.
• He Who Fights Monsters: What he has become, no different than the methods used by Megiddo. Una angrily calls out for it and yet Warren enjoys every single moment of it, saying that if humans are the real monsters, he will do anything.
• Horrifying Hero: He is the dreaded being in the Theriomorph Chronicles thanks to his appearance, actions and motivations.
• Humans Are the Real Monsters: Absolutely believes in it due to the fact he suffered so much tragedies and horrors, that he suffers a Despair Event Horizon due to it, creating a very dark anti-hero.
• God-Emperor: His ambition is to become an Apex Predator, a Emperor of a new world.
• I'm a Humanitarian: Warren develops this trait, often devouring humans and Theriomorphs after killing them as a reminder that the strong rule over the weak, promoting it.
• Implacable Man: Unstoppable, forceful and destructive calamity, he is the strongest Theriomorph in the world just as Megiddo needed.
• Jumping Off the Slippery Slope: When he sees his mother being lynched by angry humans and her dead body.
• Kill All Humans: His ultimate goal when he develops a Humans Are the Real Monsters mentality.
• Knight Templar: He will stop at nothing from saving the Theriomorphs that Megiddo made, even if it dooms mankind.
• Might Makes Right: One of the main tenets of the Social Darwinist worldview.
• Monstrous Cannibalism: He makes the point to kill humans and Megiddo-aligned Theriomorphs to the Blood Order. He does this to Una after realizing that she betrayed the Blood Order with her splinter Daughters of Liberty and allying with Vice President Joseph C. Dawson and Megiddo.
• Mook Horror Show: He repeatedly terrorizes several Megiddo minions and personel, even Joseph C. Dawson and Laura Satan.
• Motive Decay: Starts out with a noble intention of being a hero by saving Sophie Harper and showing the world about Theriomorphs. It becomes increasingly extremist at the end, causing Una to call out for it.
• Morality Pet: His parents are the only things holding him back from becoming a tyrant. After their deaths by humans, he decides to jump off the slippery slope.
• Murder Is the Best Solution: To all his problems.
• No-Holds-Barred Beatdown: Warren does this to Una and the Supreme Leader of Megiddo.
• Rewarded as a Traitor Deserves: Brutalizes Una the Sheep Theriomorph (age 12) by cannibalism when she is defeated by the Blood Order.
• The Right of a Superior Species: He considers humanity fallen and evil, tells the Blood Order that Theriomorphy is a Master Race and Superior Species, justifies his Social Darwinism, Fantastic Racism and the destruction of the human race.
• Roaring Rampage of Revenge: His ultimate rage against the world after becoming the figure of horror and tragedy by committing mass genocide of the human species.
• Pay Evil unto Evil: His delivery of brutal justice into his enemies.
• Sanity Slippage: He tippling into extremism, believing it was the only way to keep the Theriomorphs safe and sound.
• Super Supremacist: Warren Hiedler holds the worldview that Theriomorphy is worthy of the Kingdom Earth because they have superhuman powers and stronger than humans.
• That Man Is Dead: Warren says it upon seeing his mother's lynched body.

  When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.

• The Social Darwinist: A murderous, brutal extremist who believes that the strong rule over the weak will stop at nothing to create this world.
• Transhuman Treachery: Desires recreating the world to his own mission and vision by transmutating anyone under the age of 18 into a Theriomorph.
• Trauma Conga Line: Warren suffers a long, brutal one in the entire Theriomorph Chronicles story.
• Then Let Me Be Evil: Due to several tragedies and horrors.
• Übermensch: He rejects the biased and prejudiced morality of humankind and replaces with his own Social Darwinist worldview.
• The Unfettered: He absolutely shows no restraint or yield on the subject of his goals and motivation.
• Used to Be a Sweet Kid: Warren was just a simple 11 year old until he was kidnapped by Megiddo and turned into a Bald Eagle Theriomorph.
• Utopia Justifies the Means: His ultimate goal is to create a world where the strong rule over the weak even if it requires the death of humanity and replacing it with Theriomorphy
• Van Helsing Hate Crimes: A disturbing version occurs when Warren Hiedler increasingly kills humans despite their innocence. He makes the point that Humans Are the Real Monsters and thus deserves to die.
• Violence Really Is the Answer: To all his problems.
• Well-Intentioned Extremist: His form of justice is brutal and vicious, often pulling no punches when he starts goring Una to near critical condition and deciding that a Social Darwinist world was worth it.
• With Us or Against Us: Offers it as a choice to any Theriomorph that he faces.
• Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds: It's easy to feel sorry for him due to being Madden To Misanthropy and Start of Darkness as a dark and disturbing anti-hero.

edited 2nd Dec '17 9:56:47 PM by Huthman

...Erm... I don't think that's an "anti-hero" at that point. Or any type of hero. Broadly speaking, I find "hero" and "mass genocide" to be mutually exclusive.

edited 2nd Dec '17 10:21:42 PM by Dragon573

Admittedly too, I found him as a Villain Protagonist due to the fact somebody pointed out my 'hero'. Although due to the morality of the story being either Evil Versus Evil or Black-and-Grey Morality, 'hero' would be probably the kindest word to say.

No, see, evil vs evil and black and grey morality don't make him a hero, and if it's him vs. humanity, then by definition, not only is it not evil vs. evil, but he's the black in "black and grey morality." Even if every human you show in the story is a puppy eating monster, he's still worse than humanity, because he didn't stop at killing evil humans; he killed all of them, even neutral or good ones, people who hadn't done anything wrong. That's not "evil vs evil," that's "genocidal deluded maniac slaughters a species for the actions of certain members of said species."

edited 2nd Dec '17 10:38:58 PM by Dragon573