(she/her)
#2: Aug 23rd 2022 at 9:23:50 PM
I don't really think this trope is that common in the BDSM context. If we can't find enough good examples, I'd yard, re-distribute the examples and then disambig between Double Standard Rape: Female on Male, Double Standard: Rape, Male on Male, and Rape Is a Special Kind of Evil Bondage Is Bad Fetishized Abuser, and Aggressive Submissive (tropes that were in the related to section).
Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 23rd 2022 at 1:54:04 PM
Macron's notes
mightymewtron
Angry babby
from New New York
Since: Oct, 2012
Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Angry babby
#3: Aug 23rd 2022 at 10:48:44 PM
I feel many examples would go with Dominatrix, Powerful People Are Subs, and Masculine Girl, Feminine Boy as well, depending on execution.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
the Retromancer
#4: Aug 24th 2022 at 1:14:29 AM
Yard and disambig.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#5: Aug 24th 2022 at 3:33:00 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
themayorofsimpleton
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
from Elsewhere
(Experienced, Not Yet Jaded)
Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
How sweet it is
#7: Aug 24th 2022 at 6:22:51 AM
Yard/disambig
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Hi
#8: Aug 24th 2022 at 6:33:12 AM
Yard/disambig
KIRBY CAR
#9: Aug 24th 2022 at 7:42:25 AM
Yard/disambig.
he/him
#10: Aug 24th 2022 at 2:22:40 PM
Chiming in to point out that this feels like it's written like a Trope in Aggregate. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to vote on my own post.
Edited by VerySunshine on Aug 24th 2022 at 3:23:09 AM
kundoo
from the land of Mordor where the shadows lie
Since: Sep, 2010
Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
#11: Aug 24th 2022 at 2:29:51 PM
It is. It also seems to make an assumption about media portrayal of BDSM that might not be even true, considering all the inversions.
I'm for disambig.
You didn't see anything.
GastonRabbit
MOD
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#12: Aug 26th 2022 at 1:52:07 AM
Hooked a crowner. I left out the Trope Transplant option because we can't vote on that unless we know how it'll work, I left out splitting between other sex tropes because that's the same as disambiguating, and I left out Yarding because that doesn't need to go through TRS.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
#13: Aug 26th 2022 at 7:31:09 AM
Based on the examples I saw on the wick check, I'm not sure how many of the examples intend to portray abusive relationships.
HoMM Fan
#14: Aug 26th 2022 at 7:17:41 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure putting abuse tropes on here is the right move.
I know a disambig is just "anything someone could be looking for" rather than what it really means, but it puts a bad taste in my mouth to add a bunch of abuse tropes onto a BDSM trope that's mainly about consensual stuff.
"Grandmaster Combat, son!"
(she/her)
#15: Aug 26th 2022 at 7:21:44 PM
I only included those tropes because they were in All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs related to list. If they don't belong on the proposed disambig page, we can leave them off.
Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 26th 2022 at 10:21:56 AM
Macron's notes
HoMM Fan
#16: Aug 26th 2022 at 7:24:36 PM
Very fair, just wanted to add my thoughts.
"Grandmaster Combat, son!"
GastonRabbit
MOD
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#17: Aug 28th 2022 at 11:53:04 PM
Calling in favor of disambiguating.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GastonRabbit
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#18: Aug 29th 2022 at 12:12:52 AM
Here's the wick check for reference's sake:
open/close all folders
Played Straight: In a BDSM setting, all female characters are dominant and all male characters are submissive (7/54, 12.96%)
Characters/Elementary under Sherlock Holmes:
- In the first episode we first see him after a dominatrix has left his house, though he seems to have more of an academic interest in bondage than a sexual one.
- And in the beginning of "The Deductionist", he is being entertained by two dominatrixes, who handcuff him to a chair. Unfortunately they are there for other reasons...
- He's apparently friendly with a dominatrix, who called him first when she discovers a client's body.
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: She has a BDSM relationship with Fango, her being the Dom to his Sub.
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: What his sexual relationship with Rachel was like. And still is, as of the season four finale.
- Bitter Moon: Oscar and Mimi heavily explore BDSM, with her as the dominatrix.
- Tropes A to D, under Casual Kink: In "The Mile High Job," Nate and Sophie, posing as a married couple, steal another passenger's luggage as their own to board a plane. The TSA officer finds handcuffs and a whip in the carry-on: Sophie says the whip is for her and the handcuffs are for Nate.
- Chainsaw Man: Denji is the only male whose sex life is explored, and is very submissive to the various women he gets involved with. The only other romantic relationship shown is more reciprocal, and it's between five women. Makima's mind-controlled minions are also reminiscent of subs following their (female) dom's orders, though three of them are women.
- Series/Conan: During one out-of-studio segment, Conan visits a professional dominatrix and acts out the part of the sub. The entire thing is Played for Laughs, partly because Conan is not just a man, but also quite tall and (while not muscular) very fit for his age, implying that he could have easily overpowered her if he wanted to.
- Peepoodo & the Super Fuck Friends: Beatrix Dominatrix (The Big Bad She-Wolf) is a dom who leads an army of submissive males.
Inverted: In a BDSM setting, all female characters are submissive and all male characters are dominant (5/54, 9.25%)
- Averted in Clone High when Joan's foster dad Toots is seen whipping Cleo's drunk foster mom as she is tied to a bedpost. Probably more easily-acceptable in this case as Toots is a blind man who would have real trouble doing anything to Cleo's foster mom without her enthusiastic consent.
- Averted in The Venture Bros., where Princess Tinyfeet is shown to be an enormous masochist. The Monarch is able to get into the Venture compound by bringing her as a bargaining chip to Sgt. Hatred. When Hatred sees her tied up and gagged, he believes she's being held hostage until the two villains reveal that she requested to be brought in that fashion.
Monarch: She insisted that we drive her here in the trunk! She is a FREAK!
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: while she and Hardestadt enjoy some BDSM, Erin is the sub there with her safe word being 'moonlight.'
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: Inverted. The reason Dorothea is attracted to Nicks, is because he is a rare male in the setting willing to stand up to a noblewoman. She wants him to tie her up, and insists on wearing a collar herself at their wedding.
- Red Lightning: Averted entirely. All Men are doms, and all women are subs it seems. The two BDSM-Themed villains, Torture Man and Leather Girl are Dom-themed and Sub-themed respectively.
Averted: In a BDSM setting, there are both male and females in either role (11/54, 20.37%)
Umineko: When They Cry - Meta under Erika Furudo:
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: Zigzagged with Erika. In Dawn, she acts in a dom-ish fashion with Battler (though with him unable to consent, due to being trapped in a Logic Error). However, in the omake in the manga of Dawn, she's actually a sub to Bern’s dom.
- Wandering Pilot: Usually inverted, as Shinji's lovers are content to let him pamper them during sex. Played straight with Claudette, who takes complete control in bed, much to Shinji's surprise.
- Your servant, Mistress: Played straight with Maleficent and Diaval though averted with other people they meet; Diaval mentions that he feared he would not find a female dom at all.
- Exit to Eden: Subverted. There are men and women in both roles.
- The Crow: Wicked Prayer: Johnny is largely subservient to Kyra, who he even calls "Mistress." He secretly resents this, though, and longs to be equal or superior to her, and when he falsely believes that he has gained Crow power, he tries (and fails) to rape Kyra, to show her that they are now on even footing and that she is no longer his glorified Dominatrix.
- Interspecies Reviewers:
- Played with as Crim notes that while he did enjoy his time with a birdmaid, he found it hard to deal with their submissive nature because he himself isn't all that dominant.
- Averted with the minotaur women featured at the end of chapter 5/episode 2, which are known to be really submissive.
- The halfling succu-girl Piltia from the gender-bender establishment has a small streak of domineering sadism, which comes out when Kanchal picks her for his session, as she delights in bending him over and manhandles him sufficiently roughly that it is mentioned in his review. He kind of liked it, in any case.
- The salamander lady is quick to spot that Crim is interested in her and takes the lead completely as she scoops him up and carries him off, princess-carry style. Crim appreciated her assertiveness by rating her a high "9".
- He Is My Master: Yoshitaka never succeeds in fulfilling his sick demented fantasies despite his power over the girls (and Mitsuki's apparent eagerness). In fact, he's tied up and whipped by Izumi and Alicia, a French girl he tries to seduce, at one point.
- Tropes A to C: Doug's admitted that submissive men and dominant women are Author Appeal to him, but he's played with it a few times. Examples:
- While Critic is still probably the subbiest guy on the site who has it bad for any psychotic woman who'll top him, as most people want him to stay, he and Tamara switch between dominant and submissive, she being hired to hurt him for the views and him trying his best to break her through infantalizing outfits. This is after him completely overriding Rachel in a straightly inverted version of the trope, though she was still naturally dommy with Malcolm.
- They also referenced and inverted the most infamous subverted example at a con, comparing Hyper Fangirl to Christian Grey and Critic to Ana Steele.
- At the end of Mad Max: Fury Road, Devil Boner is actually interested in Hyper back (unlike Critic, who is relieved that she moved on to Tom Hardy) and is more than happy to let her take charge. In Cinderella Old vs New, he's the Henpecked Husband but in a healthy, loving, both-are-Ax-Crazy-violent way. And if their cameo in "Freddy vs Jason" is any indication, she also tops.
- Saints Row: The Third: Subverted. While female domination has more focus (Safeword, for example...) Kenzie mentions having "teacup" as her personal safeword and owns a gimp mask back at her crib, impling that she may be a sub. In addition, female gimps appear alongside the male gimps walking the streets and the player even has the option of making their entire gang out of gimps of either gender. (Or both genders.)
- Depending how one decides to play a female boss, this can be a dominant (sorry...) theme throughout the game. There's even a costume for it.
- Collar 6: Initially played straight (more due to a lack of male characters than anything) and later averted when we see a male dom in Anya's flashback, and the plot-critical character of Michael Kappel is a male dom.
- Dragon Age – The Iron Bull, as the redirect Male On Female Domination Taboo: Averted. The Iron Bull's romance has him dominate the Inqusitor, regardless of their gender or species. It's portrayed in a caring, lay-down-your-burden-while-in-the-bedroom way.
Misuse: Dominant women and submissive men, or the inverse, but no BDSM or sex mentioned (4/54, 7.41%)
Tales of Xillia under Gaius:
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: Inverted and played entirely for laughs. When Muzet comments on the difference between direct tethering with Jude and Gaius, she comments on how Jude was a very giving tetherer whereas Gaius' commanding nature completely overwhelmed her so much that she forgot to actually explain the implications of the act. All with a teasing smile on her face. Gaius, naturally, is rather shocked.
- Only the Results: Cherri is clearly the dominant partner in her relationship with Sir Pentious, what with her possessing his soul chip. He doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
- Video Games, under Ar tonelico Qoga: Knell of Ar Ciel:
- Finnel, is described as a 'typical tsundere' by her in-game character profile. It's actually played with a bit though. Her deeper Cosmopheres reveal she's an aversion of All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs, and acts uppity in the hope Aoto might get fed up and exert some authority over her.
- Ar tonelico Qoga: Knell of Ar Ciel: Inverted. Finnel secretly likes Aoto calling her 'servant' because she's a sub. He doesn't figure this out until she spells it out in her fifth cosmosphere level.
Zero or Incomplete Context (15/54, 27.77%)
Das Sporking under Ket Makura:
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: Subverted. Commented out on page
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: In the stage musical, "Dead Girl Walking" would probably hit a lot differently if J.D. had broken into her room in the middle of the night, drunk, and aggressively demanded rough sex. But A Man Is Always Eager, so...
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: Apparently engaged in BDSM sessions with his wife every night back in the day.
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: Averted, as the house has both male & female adepts.
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs No text in entry, but the Hare is called a Dominatrix in the next one
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: Calls her male fans piglets.
- The elite male fans get the special distinction of being "The Sky Knight's Brigade". Either the Sky Knight’s Brigade is demeaning or piglets isn’t. I suspect something’s not coming across in translation.
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: "Gender-flipped" with Mono-Inu. Mono-Neko doesn't have a formal gender but is typically referred to as a "her."
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: "Gender-flipped" with Mono-Neko. Mono-Inu doesn't have a formal gender but is typically referred to as a "him."
- High Anxiety: Diesel and Montague.
- High School D×D: YMMV on this one but one of the latest short stories involve Akeno having a S&M with her father after finding out that he and his wife engaged in that sort of thing every single night. Oh and Azazel joins them, being also a masochist. In short, All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs. Missing Akeno’s role.
- Kokoro Connect: It is implied in the novels that Inaba enjoys Taichi's submissiveness a little too much...
- Fifty Shades of Grey: Averted, for once.
- Princess Lucidity To The Rescue: Lucidity and Estrella to Arty, although in Estrella's case it seems to be a ruse...
- Venus in Furs: no text. Commented out ZCE
- on the trope page: A possible explanation for the stereotype is that in Venus in Furs, considered the official Trope Codifier if not Trope Maker of BDSM and the novel that caused the practice of "masochism" to be named after its author, the man is the sub (and hence calling all the shots) and the woman is the dom (and hence doing everything she's told). Note: This is accurate, but confusingly phrased and full of cruft. She's dominating him because he asked her to.
- I Don’t Like You at All, Big Brother!!: Shuusuke and his father. Commented out ZCE
- Real Account: During the Re-ACA Live Broadcast.
- South Park:
- An early version of the episode "The Return of the Fellowship of the Ring to the Two Towers" featured audio of a man saying "Yeah, spank me."
- Inverted with Mrs. Cartman and her German fetish videos.
Pothole for Fem Dom (4/54, 7.41%)
Surname A to H: Humon has often mentioned her fondness for sharp-dressed men, fem!dom and larger men. She's gone out of her way when drawing fanservice-y art to portray characters of all sizes and shapes, on the basis that not all attractive people are Bishōnen and women with impossible hourglass figures. In a non-sexual way, she also prominently features multicultural mythology in all of her work, especially Scandinavian legends and creatures.
- True Facts Male Spider: ...Is it weird that I'm kinda turned on right now?
* Establishments And Installations under Succubus District: Johnny Bravo visited the succu-girls, though he was really reluctant to reveal information because of what his momma might think. Given his personality, it's strange he's even thinks his mom would care. Under the alias of John Bravado (everybody saw through it, but he thinks otherwise), he reports that he slept with Piltia while conveniently obfuscating anything that might suggest this has something to do with his dick size. He was more open about Elza considering his personality, but didn't mention if her...equipment factored into it. - Fate/stay night under Morton's Fork: Played for Laughs. After Shirou receives his Badass Transplant from Archer on Day 10, Rin and Illya get in an argument for argument's sake over whose Servant he should be considered now (It Makes Sense in Context). He can pick either, but both choices will have him labeled as a Covert Pervert by the other. If Tohsaka is chosen, Illya will describe her as an "oppressive, greedy and loud" woman and basically wonder aloud if All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs applies here. If Shirou favors Illya instead, she will enthusiastically hug him and Tohsaka will give him the stink eye and suspiciously ask him why he's going to such lengths to flatter a little girl.
Other Uses (4/54, 7.41%)
- Comic Strips: 9 Chickweed Lane started life in 1993 as a gag-a-day strip about 3 generations of females and their daily experiences. It slowly worked its way into a long, often repetitive "mega-arc" - encompassing the lives of many people over decades, across several continents - lasting several years. It then devolved into a polysyllabic, and almost ritually fetishistic, exploration of creator Brooke Mc Eldowney's limited range of obsessive interests: essentially a combo of All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs, All Women Are Lustful, Babies Make Everything Better, Eternal Sexual Freedom, Everybody Has Lots of Sex and Sesquipedalian Loquaciousness. Direct mention of trope in discussion.
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs: A tennant of their religeon. The Death Goddess offered to be a sub for the Nameless One, and that was the Great Sin she was cursed for. In-universe, seemingly.
- Death Note: Ryuk gets visibly excited whenever Light shouts at him and presumes to order him around so perhaps it's more of a case of All Bishi Teens Are Doms and All Monsters Are Subs? This feels like a pothole for comedy's sake.
- Weakness Turns Her On: Exaggerated:
- Charles is so weak, he can't squish a fly, but this makes Alice fall madly in love with him.
- All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs Heavily implying the correct definition, but it's a ZCE.
Fits Multiple Categories (2/54, 3.70%)
Aoharu × Machinegun under Tohru Yukimura:
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
- Sadist: Played for Laughs, as he writes/draws femdom ero-manga for a living, describing himself as an "S" and treating his fans as an "M" (and labeling Masamune an "M" as well). Contrast with Midori, who plays this trope totally straight. The ero-manga is a pothole for femdom, but the entry implies BDSM shows up in other contexts.
- Sadist: Played with. He's the original example of a Sadist played straight in the bedroom with Sora, due to their BDSM relationship being an aversion of the stereotypical All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs seen in fiction. In terms of genuine hostility towards anyone, however, he's relatively harmless so long as you're not acting out of any form of malice or flat out trying to harm innocents. In that case he'll gladly escalate things into a brutal fight with Gabumon more than willing to defeat any normal challenger; the only issue he had for a while was his fellow band mate Chris. Partially direct trope mention, partially missing BDSM context.
GastonRabbit
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
from Robinson, Illinois, USA
(General of TV Troops)
Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#19: Aug 29th 2022 at 4:48:23 PM
Everything's done, so closing.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Trope Repair Shop:
All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs
26th Aug '22 1:48:29 AM
Crown Description:
All Women Are Doms All Men Are Subs has an issue with frequent aversion and inversions, as well as context issues, crosswicking issues, and having a snowclone for a name. What should be done with it?
Total posts: 19
Crediting Very Sunshine for the OP
A link to the wick check.
Quoting from Tropes Needing TRS: “Most examples are either inversions or a single instance of ‘female dom/male sub’ in a work without any actual meaning behind that particular representation.”
This trope uses the All Women are X, All Men are Y snowclone. It states that portraying women as the dominant characters in BDSM can be seen as tamer for audiences and subverts the expectation that men are sexual aggressors.
Currently, the trope’s on-page examples are littered with inversions and aversions. Tropers can’t agree on what a subversion, inversion, or an aversion is. (In my wick check, I provide definitions, ignoring the term that the example uses.) Off-page examples use the trope to reference female domination in general, or misconstrue it as a character trope.
42/115 (36.5%) of the related media pages are character pages, but the page has a massive issue with missing cross-wicks, so the overall percentage could be lower. The same lack of cross-wicks leads me to grab a few random examples from the trope page. I also included the sole wick from the redirect Female on Male Domination Taboo.
In my wick check, a quarter of the examples did not have enough context to determine how valid their usage is. Of the 27 wicks that do have enough context, 12.96% were played straight, 18.51% were inverted, and 40.74% were averted. 14.81% were misuse, as there was no BDSM element.
Possible Solutions
Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 23rd 2022 at 12:11:54 PM
Macron's notes