Ambiguous Name (Alt names crowner 16 May 2021): Wall Master

Wall Master purports to be about "an enemy that remains hidden until you're within its vicinity". The name, as it currently stands, is taken from an enemy in The Legend of Zelda, which does this in some games.

The primary issue is that this is a case of Trope-Namer Syndrome; knowing that Wallmasters hide until you're close is only useful if you happen to be familiar with the series. If you aren't, then it's really not clear how "Wall Master" is supposed to indicate "enemy that stays hidden until you're near". Even if you are familiar with the series, however, Wallmasters aren't that good of an example. Zelda wallmasters are identified by three things: dropping from the ceiling, being giant hands and being Mook Bouncers; the last two facets are as important to their identity as the first, and potentially more, and by making them the "face" and name of the trope it seems that these two things have gotten entangled into it. In some games they don't even hide much, and move around very visibly and obviously. This has caused problems for this trope, which I'll make clearer in the example check.

The description is somewhat bare-bones, but the basic concept is workable and mostly needs fleshing out.

A wick check shows 151 inbound links. For a thirteen-year-old page, this seems a little... little. The page history doesn't show a whole lot of activity — 170 recorded edits in total, and most years only average three to six or so, although last year was much more active. On the whole it's living, but it isn't really thriving.

Internal example check, looking at every example:

External example check, looking at every third example:

Conclusion: Internal check:

• Valid examples: 46/74 — 62.2%
• ZCE and effective ZCE: 22/74 — 29.8%
• Misuses, non-examples, and other tropes entirely: 14/74 — 18.9%
• ZCE and misuse where the example is only noted to look like a hand or to be a Mook Bouncer: 8/74 — 10.8%

Note: this adds up to over 100% even without the last group, because many entries count multiple examples in different categories.

External check:

• Valid uses: 19/50 — 38%
• ZCE and zero-context potholes: 17/50 — 34%
• Used to pothole the Zelda enemy's name: 5/50 —10%
• Used to refer to giant hands in general: 3/50 — 6%
• Used to refer to the ability to phase through walls or solid matter: 3/50 — 6%

The basic trope is a valid one and should be kept, since at the very least there's more proper use than misuse. However, the name needs to be changed. Even outside of Trope-Namer Syndrome and wallmasters not being that good of an example in themselves, it seems evident to me that the use of this specific name is causing part of the trope's focus issues. Several entries just boil down to "this enemy is a hand that grabs you". Since "hand that grabs you" is the core of the Zelda wallmaster's characterization, I suspect that this has caused people to make wrong assumptions about what this trope is about.

Notably, however, these problems are somewhat less prevalent in other pages (there are a lot of ZCE, but most can be chalked up to lax writing standards in those pages), although the use of Wall Master as shorthand for "giant hand" persists. However, two other problems become evident there: firstly, there's evidently a lot of temptation to just turn the enemy's name into a link to the trope, even in situations where the text has nothing to do with it; secondly, there's a minor tendency to use the trope to refer to characters who can just phase through walls.

In both internal and external cases, there's also a worrying tendency for actually valid examples to leave out the "stays hidden" part and only focus on the "is a hand" part.

Additionally, in the description, the phrase "Bonus points if they're also Mook Bouncers and eject you elsewhere when they grab you" is going to need cutting, because there isn't any trend in the examples of these enemies doing this. Only two valid entries of this are also Mook Bouncers, and this phrase only seems to be there because of the trope namer.

Basically, it seems that the use of this specific videogame enemy as the trope's name seems to lead to a persistent tendency to use it as the measuring stick for whether examples fit, and for all of its unrelated traits to get carried along for the ride. The trope is mostly still "enemy that stays hidden until you're close" — but there's a clear current that tries to treat it as "enemy that is a giant grabby hand".

On a closing note, I think we should also determine the precise relationship between this, Chest Monster and Stealthy Mook, since there are cases of overlap in the examples and they're conceptually similar. My instinct is that this and Stealthy Mook are related but distinct — a Stealthy Mook is difficult to see but not necessarily impossible, and isn't inherently stationary — and that Chest Monster is a subtrope of this. Alternatively, we could call this a subtrope of Stealthy Mook.

Edited by Theriocephalus on May 3rd 2021 at 10:09:42 AM

Opening.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I agree the name is bad, but I can't think of any suggestions at the moment.

Regarding the Super Mario Bros. 3 ZCE, I'm not convinced that the Angry Sun is even an example (it's not listed as one on the game's page). The Angry Sun's gimmick isn't that it's hidden (it's perfectly visible throughout most of the level); it's that it looks like a static background object that happens to have an angry face (in a game where plenty of actual static background objects have eyes) until you get to a certain point in the stage, at which point it starts swooping down to attack.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 7th 2021 at 12:23:31 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

We have Invisible Monsters. Would this benefit from a name like Proximity Based Invisible Monsters?

Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

Maybe? A lot of examples aren't invisible per se, though, just hidden.

Hidden Mook is a bit closer, but that doesn't describe that they pop out when you get close. Perhaps Ambushing Mook?

Or "Enemy" could also be substituted for "Mook", I imagine.

Edited by Theriocephalus on May 7th 2021 at 2:30:45 PM

I think Ambushing Mook or Ambushing Enemy sounds better than Hidden Mook or Hidden Enemy, since their trait is that they don't attack until the player character gets close to them.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 7th 2021 at 3:57:27 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

I agree Wall Master is a bad name. ^note This is the same kind of bad Trope Namer that occurred with "World of Cardboard" Speech, where people picked different parts of the trope namer, and this eventually led to a rename Is "hiding in wall/ceiling/floor before player draws near" a requirement of this trope?

^As far as I can tell the gist of it is that the enemy in question hides until the player draws near and then stops hiding and attacks. Precisely how and where they're hiding up to that point does not seem to be a strict requirement. For example, I could see this working with something that's invisible and stays still until you get close, or which hides among plants, or which hides in a hole, or which stays phased out of reality and phases in when you come near, etcetera.

Invisible Enemy might work, if not for the fact some enemies that are invisible like the Trope Namer and its more brutal cousin Floor Masters are invisible and fit more into Mook Bouncer, Demonic Spiders or Asteroids Monster? I saw we change the name to Hazard Mook. As in an environmental hazard mook that hides in the environment but is hazardous.

Edited by Klavice on May 8th 2021 at 3:07:28 AM

I'm not sure I follow. Those tropes would at best have tangential overlap with this one, so I don't understand why it'd be a problem if a monster that is invisible fits into this trope and also some other ones.

Regardless, I think that Ambushing Enemy or Ambushing Mook would be the best options for a rename.

I'm in favour of "Ambushing Enemy / Ambushing Mook". (Perhaps a tweak to "Ambush Enemy"? I feel that it flows a little better.)

My Games & Writing

For renaming to Ambushing Enemy or Ambushing Mook.

Ambushing Enemy has a nice ring to it!

Ambushing Enemy sounds fine.

Vi: Well, it's not like we're getting attacked by a giant wasp spider guardian! | Leif: Never combine those words ever again.

So it seems we're mostly settling on Ambushing Enemy, from what I'm seeing? Although perhaps we should wait for a few more people to chime in.

While we wait for that, there's a related subject I'd like to bring up. I was considering whether the specific misuse where the trope was used to refer to giant disembodied hands was something that could be used as the basis of its own trope, and on a last-minute search I noticed we already have a trope for disembodied, monstrous hands that try to kill people — and for some reason it's called Helping Hands. That's an extremely nonindicative name (I have known about this trope for a long while, but always assumed it was about hands that helped people, not killed them!) and should also be changed, but I figure it should probably get its own thread?

(On that general note, another trope I was looking at, Giant Hands of Doom, is also kind of generically named for what it is and invites similar misuse as Wall Master — I have a wick check for it, if anybody wants a look — but again, I suppose that might be best left for another thread. Or is it better to keep things compact and limit the amount of threads getting started?)

I'm also good with Ambushing Enemy.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I'm revising my vote to just Ambushing Enemy instead of either that or Ambushing Mook, since I now think the former is better.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Attached a rename-or-not crowner.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Bumping — it's unanimous.

Names so far:

• Proximity Based Invisible Monsters
• Hidden Mook
• Hidden Enemy
• Ambushing Mook
• Ambushing Enemy
• Ambush Enemy
• Hazard Mook

Last minute suggestions?

I swear someone voted down upon seeing my "it's unanimous" declaration!

Hiding Mook? Hiding Enemy?

I fixed the TRS notice, because for whatever reason, my clipboard saved a Morgued thread for Five Races instead of the "Welcome to TRS" thread.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

"Mook" should be in the name since that's our established term for "nondescript opposing forces" — "enemy" is too vague for this purpose. Don't really have any opinions on the specifics other than that.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

^I've been thinking about this and I'm actually inclined to disagree — Mooks refers to the cheap, nameless, disposable and easily mowed through two-bit henchpersons and minions, which is something decidedly more specific than "video game enemy".

However, it's also worth noting that "mook" does seem to get used to mean "video game enemy" or something equivalent in trope names — see the long list of subtropes on the Mooks page. Still, that could in itself be an argument from trying to prevent meaning decay, although we could very well find ourselves with another McGuffin situation.

Situations like these are precisely why we don't slang terms and in-jokes to name tropes anymore, frankly. Mooks and McGuffin aren't names that would fly under modern naming conventions, but they're too old, recognizable and loaded with inbound links to change now.

Edited by Theriocephalus on May 15th 2021 at 11:55:22 AM