Follow TV Tropes

Following

Needs Help: Mailer Daemon

Go To

Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#1: Feb 28th 2022 at 8:54:08 AM

I see a trope with two different problems:

  1. 72 wicks isn't a very good show for a 13-year-old trope. It could be the name that's holding it back.
  2. Going by the primary description, Mailer Daemon's use doesn't reflect the main definition.

Trying to fix one issue will probably affect the other.

    The long part of the description (primary) 
"The online version of the Stalker with a Crush... only this guy happens to be a little less than human. The Mailer Daemon can be a cultist, a vampire, a demon or some other supernatural critter intent on eating, ritually sacrificing, brainwashing, or "marrying" the hapless heroine.

"Over the course of an episode, he'll woo the heroine, getting her absorbed in online chatting and games, and convincing her that this godsend of true love, who curiously refuses to send his picture, is her Love at First Sight... well, read. She'll trust him completely with all sorts of secrets, personal and dangerous. Her friends might try to urge her to be cautious, but she'll think "You're Just Jealous" and grow distant from them; this is usually a thought the Daemon plants and fosters to alienate her and make her easier to seduce and lure. He'll eventually persuade her to come meet him in the Haunted Castle or Mad Scientist Laboratory, only to reveal himself in his true form."

    A sentence at the end (secondary) 
Other variations include using a Great Big Book of Everything instead of a PC, or having the Daemon communicate while being trapped in Another Dimension, and asking the heroine to use Summon Magic to bring him over for face to snout chat.

The latter blurb feels like something completely different. Like, of course if the monster is trapped somewhere or in something, he's going to try to woo a user to set him free. Sometimes, the wooing looks like catfishing. Related tropes: Artifact of Doom, Leaking Can of Evil, Artifact Domination, Soul Jar

Wick check of 54 wicks (overshot by 4). DO browse them to determine what we can do with this trope

    7 correct (primary) - supernatural entity looking for romance/friendship communicating from a distance 

    26 correct (secondary) - supernatural entity trapped or residing in an object (or IS the object) 
  • Black Magic: Raven of the Teen Titans was taught 'dark magic' from her Mailer Dragon, and experienced no negative effects until she lost control of a spell and endangered a child. Then she freed Malchior from his can, and she saw that it was not so good, so for the rest of the show she didn't use nearly as many spells as she did in that episode. Not the blackest kind of Black Magic, as the negative consequenses were mostly a matter of application, and control always was a big issue for Raven, though her being half-demon could have been a factor.
  • Blank Book: In "I Robot, You Jane", the book used to seal Moloch was blank until the sealing ritual was performed, at which point it would fill up with words. When Willow scanned it into the library computer, it became blank again, as Moloch was released into the internet.
  • Deadly Dodging In "Robot You Jane", Buffy defeats Moloch the Corruptor by tricking him into punching an electrical junction box, frying him.
  • Evil Costume Switch: Raven always wears the dark leotard-under-cloak costume in the series, but once she is briefly seen with a red cloak and the four eyes of Trigon - never a good sign. This one shows up again in the comic; a red-skinned Raven is seen when she's under the influence of her demonic father, and a white-cloaked version appears after she's purified of said influence. Inverted when Malchior is teaching Raven dark magic, whereby Raven's robes turn white.
  • May–December Romance: Teen Titans has Raven's crush on her teacher Malchior - she's about 15 years and his age is at least three digits. An easily overlooked example because he's a dragon posing as a white haired young-looking guy - a phenomenon often observed in Mayfly December Romances. Also, he's made of pages from the book he's trapped in, which serves to distract. Whether or not that relationship would qualify as a Mayfly–December Romance is uncertain, due to the natures of the characters.
  • Sugar-and-Ice Personality: In the episode "Spellbound", she acted very sweet and girlish towards Malchior; however, by the end Malchior made her regret even having a warmer side. For a while after the episode, she became visibly more withdrawn. Though when Beast Boy tried to comfort her, she did go out and give him a hug as thanks.
  • Talking the Monster to Death: Used twice in Cyborg 009's 2001 series. 005 uses it against the Spirit of the Earth (in the form of a gigantic jaguar that has been killing people, including the husband of a friend of 005 himself, and both 003 and 009 do that to Sphynx, a super computer who kidnaps 003 to make her his puppet girlfriend and tries to kill the others, specially 009 and 004.
  • Teacher/Student Romance: The Teen Titans don't actually go to school, but Raven meets an exotic, charming, and kind warlock who teaches her all kinds of new magic, and she rapidly falls for him. Given the stuff she and her friends typically deal with, it's not that important to Raven that he's curse-trapped into a book and technically at least a few centuries older than her fifteen-or-so years of age. He also turns out to also be an ancient Dread Dragon. And when Raven releases him from his curse, he tries to roast her. She puts the dragon back in the book, but is left heartbroken by the entire affair.
  • Terms of Endangerment: In the episode "Spellbound" Raven fell in love with Malchior who lived in a book. However he turned out to be a Mailer Daemon, who was really just tricking her into releasing him from the book. He kept referring to her as "my sweet Raven".
  • The Glomp: Strangely enough, Raven (of all people) does something like this to Beast Boy (of all people) after her heart has been broken by Malchior and Beast Boy comes to console her. However, since this is more a case of being extremely depressed, lonely, and wanting some sort of comfort, rather than being truly happy to see him, it's debatable whether this counts. The jump-on-and-hug-tightly physical actions are played straight.
  • What Is Evil?: Used by Raven's Mailer Daemon on Teen Titans:
    Raven: It's dark magic! You've been teaching me dark magic!
    Malchior: Is it dark, or is it simply misunderstood...like you? True — the spells I have taught you are very powerful. There are those who fear power, so they call it "dark". But for people like us...such distinctions do not exist.
  • Awesome.Teen Titans 2003: What Malchior did to Raven in Spellbound was absolutely awful, I think we're all agreed on that. Which is what makes Raven's comeback in the climactic battle of that episode even more awesome than it already would have been to begin with. I wonder if Malchior ever realized that in giving her the tool to let him out, he also gave her the power to put him right back where he came from. Cue the Ironic Hell for Malchior.
  • Buffy.Season Specific Tropes: "I Robot, You Jane" had another twist on it, when Willow's cyber-boyfriend turned out to be a literal demon on the Internet, Moloch the Corruptor. (The magical book in which it was sealed had been scanned into a computer.) The metaphor was lampshaded when Buffy used it as an argument to persuade Willow to check up on "Malcolm".
  • Characters.Cyborg 009: A powerful super-computer with the mind of an emotionally neglected genius, who kidnaps and uploads 003 to his mainframe so she can love him forever.
  • Characters.Harry Potter Gryffindor: (description) In the second book, Ginny finally gets to go to Hogwarts... but as she has trouble making friends and feels quite lonely, she's an easy prey for Voldemort's Brainwashing through his diary.
  • Characters.Teen Titans 2003 Enemies: Evil dragon trapped in a book. He even provides the page image.
  • Literature.Harry Potter And The Chamber Of Secrets: Tom Riddle, though he lacks any Stalker with a Crush tendencies toward Ginny, manipulates Ginny into thinking he's a genuine friend of hers. By the time Ginny realizes the truth, it's too late, and Tom has control over her.
  • Manga.Cyborg 009: The 2001 series features the supercomputer, Sphinx, who develops a crush on 003 and kidnaps her with the intent to brainwash and make her his girlfriend. Its programming was actually based on the mind and memories of the deceased Carl Eckermann, who suffered from such huge mommy issues and extreme Parental Neglect at the hands of his own father, who was also his boss, that he latched onto 003, who happened to resemble his long-dead mother.
  • Manga.X1999: Beast, Satsuki's computer, which is obsessed with its builder and owner. And territorial to boot.
  • Cracked.Tropes I To Z: Parodied by Soren Bowie with his article "The Spambot Who Seduced Me: A True Story of Forbidden Love", in which he responds to actual messages sent to him by a dating site spambot (also mocking how common these spambots are in the comments on Cracked articles), with each reply being more and more lovesick.
  • MyGodWhatHaveIDone.Literature: Ginny Weasley's attempt to destroy Riddle's diary in Chamber of Secrets was (probably) a reaction to this trope. In any case, she was in full mode of this trope after being saved by Harry at the end. Poor Ginny. It must be... devastating doesn't even describe it... for an eleven-year-old to realize her actions have very nearly caused the deaths of half her friends and her crush. Maybe that's why she was so sympathetic to Harry after the "Sectumsempra" incident.
  • NotGoodWithRejection.Western Animation: Raven falling in love with Malchior, who lived in a book in the episode "Spellbound". However he turned out to be a Mailer Daemon, who then proceeded to trick her into releasing him from the book. While Raven was heartbroken, she did get revenge during a final fight after he said "I got what I wanted and I don't need you anymore" and put him back in the book using the techniques that he taught her.
  • OurDragonsAreDifferent.Western Animation: Teen Titans: Malchior is a very traditional Western kind of dragon, although he plays a less than traditional role for a dragon.
  • Recap.Buffy The Vampire Slayer S 1 E 8 I Robot You Jane: Moloch uses the internet's chat rooms to bring Willow over to his side.
  • TearJerker.Teen Titans 2003: The end of "Spellbound", where Raven gets her heart completely broken by Malchior, the Mailer Daemon from the Great Big Book of Everything is also quite the tearjerker. Specially when Beast Boy says he's sorry for the heartbreak Raven went through, and then she hugs him.
  • Webcomic.Sluggy Freelance: K'Z'K slowly tried to convince Gwynn to fully give in to her powers and come over to help him, all through "chatting" on a word processor.

    1 misuse 
  • VideoGame.Net Hack: A literal one; it delivers messages from other users on the system. The daemon normally appears and disappears within one turn without giving a chance for the player to interact with it. However, a Crazy-Prepared player can kill it, preventing further messages from being delivered; to do this, the player needs to stone-to-flesh a statue of a mail daemon, which is not something that occurs naturally but needs to be wished for, and to be prepared to kill the resulting daemon in one turn as it otherwise disappears with a cry of "I'm late!".

    4 misuse by missing the "less than human" part 

    16 indexes, in-line, not enough context to tell 

Of the correct examples in the wick check, there are 10 works:

MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#2: Feb 28th 2022 at 8:56:38 AM

Opening. People have had issues with the name for years and I never liked it but there wasn't any proof that it could be harming the trope until now. I am good with renaming and maybe using TLP to example farm but that's always a free action.

Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 28th 2022 at 11:57:12 AM

Macron's notes
WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
GoldenCityBird from the UK Since: Oct, 2018
#4: Feb 28th 2022 at 10:58:51 AM

As for the rename... Supernatural Online Stalker, perhaps? It at least fits with the primary definition.

TRS Wick Cleaning
Tonwen HoMM Fan from Axeoth Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: I <3 love!
HoMM Fan
#5: Feb 28th 2022 at 11:00:07 AM

Yeah I'd change the name. It seems like a case of a name looking for a trope, which wound up confusing people finding the trope itself.

"Grandmaster Combat, son!"
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#6: Feb 28th 2022 at 11:02:45 AM

I'm not sure what the trope is supposed to be about. One half of it describes Internet Stalking and the other Interspecies Romance / Stalker with a Crush And A Magic Tool. I can see the concept of "non-human tries to communicate with a human without showing themselves" worthy, but it needs some overhauls in TLP.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#7: Feb 28th 2022 at 11:28:19 AM

[up] "non-human tries to communicate with a human without showing themselves" - that might be worthy of a trope if we don't have it already. Would be a supertrope or very close sister trope to Blind and the Beast.

I suspect a straight "Nonhuman Online Stalker with a Crush" definition would get Mailer Daemon cut for having nearly no examples (there are two in the correct primary folder).

crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#8: Feb 28th 2022 at 11:53:37 AM

Do we have a trope for the You've Got Mail-plot of carrying on a romance via letter/chatroom? I don't see it on the film's page, and the primary definition wouldn't need the supernatural aspect if we focused on the broader concept.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
RustBeard Since: Sep, 2016
#10: Feb 28th 2022 at 12:08:36 PM

Isn't 72 wicks considered healthy for a trope?

WarJay77 Big Catch, Sparkle Edition from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#11: Feb 28th 2022 at 12:10:39 PM

Technically, but with a title like that? There's definitely a reason to suspect it's being stifled.

Also if most of the good wicks come from the same 10 works, that's really the same as only having 10 correct examples.

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 28th 2022 at 3:11:55 PM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#12: Feb 28th 2022 at 12:19:47 PM

I wouldn't have a problem with disambiguating between the tropes Amonimus listed in this post and other tropes listed in this thread, but I won't complain if everyone else prefers renaming.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 28th 2022 at 2:21:55 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
themayorofsimpleton Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him from Elsewhere (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
#13: Feb 28th 2022 at 12:59:35 PM

[up][up] and [up][up][up] "John Barleycorn and Friends" (one of the first TRS threads I remember participating in) was brought in a while back because while the wicks weren't awful, they were still low, and the name was suspected of being a reason. That trope now has the less-confusing name Anthropomorphic Vice, so I think it's valid for a not-as-underperforming trope with an awful name to be brought in if that name is unnecessarily stifling the trope.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Feb 28th 2022 at 4:01:40 AM

TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#14: Feb 28th 2022 at 2:13:39 PM

I'd like to give renaming (and maybe expanding) a shot. Pen Pals with the supernatural sounds viable. Maybe the "online, catfishing threat" part can be a flavor of pen pal.

Rust Beard - 71 wicks in 14 years is unimpressive, and (extrapolating) about half of them are from the same three works.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#15: Feb 28th 2022 at 2:50:27 PM

Yeah, I'll change my vote to renaming instead of disambiguating. Supernatural Online Stalker doesn't sound bad, pending further suggestions.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#16: Feb 28th 2022 at 3:02:54 PM

Does it have to be online or it would work the same with modern technology, like cursed letters?

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#17: Feb 28th 2022 at 3:05:47 PM

I assume that the trope would cover that since the description says that Great Big Book of Everything and such could count.

Macron's notes
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#18: Feb 28th 2022 at 3:12:58 PM

I say anything capable of being a medium for correspondence. Letters, chat room messages, Tom Riddle's diary, a book used by a wizard to seal an evil dragon which the prisoner escapes by convincing the handler he's super nice...

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#20: Mar 3rd 2022 at 2:48:35 PM

Hooked a rename crowner so we can get this thread going again.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#21: Mar 4th 2022 at 8:52:44 AM

Oh the rename option is unanimous. Great. I kind of gathered that the thread was unsure about renaming.

Noaqiyeum Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they) from the gentle and welcoming dark (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
#22: Mar 4th 2022 at 1:45:47 PM

[up] It feels like it started as a pun in search of a trope.

The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#23: Mar 6th 2022 at 3:17:58 AM

Calling crowner in favor of renaming and expanding the definition to cover all forms of communication. Rename crowner will be hooked shortly.

EDIT: Remame crowner hooked but we need more name suggestions. Supernatural Online Stalker was the only name suggested so far and I don't think it fits anymore because we are going to broaden to trope to cover all forms of communication.

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 6th 2022 at 6:39:57 AM

Macron's notes
Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#25: Mar 6th 2022 at 3:58:59 AM

I added all of those suggestions to the crowner

Macron's notes

Trope Repair Shop: Mailer Daemon rename
7th Mar '22 7:53:34 PM

Crown Description:

Consensus was to rename Mailer Daemon and expand the definition; the draft for the expanded definition is at Sandbox.Mailer Daemon Expansion. What should its new name be?

Total posts: 47
Top