TL;DR: Most examples only talk about the Grey side instead of both the Grey and the White sides.
I made a thread just like thesetwo, but I think this is the most appropriate forum to start this thread.
Anyways, the description of White-and-Grey Morality is that there are unambiguously good heroes and morally ambiguous villains. The problem is that many examples of this trope only talk about how the "bad guys" aren't bad and/or evil simply not existing (unless exceptions are mentioned) while saying nothing about The Heroes and why they're good, which is ignoring the word WHITE in its title. Meanwhile the other Shades of Conflict, Black-and-White Morality, Grey-and-Gray Morality, and Black-and-Gray Morality have both sides detailed and descripted.
I think this is a problem because not only is telling half of this trope's examples feels half-baked, it's unfair when this trope doesn't get full contexts whereas the other tropes do, and this habit of leaving out the heroes results in people thinking "no bad guys = this trope", even though that rule also applies to Grey-and-Gray Morality and Good vs. Good. If people follow this habit, then by that logic, examples of Black-and-Gray Morality would only detail the "good guys" and why they're not good while leaving out the Villains and why they're evil.
These are the examples of half-context WAGMs that are deleted for not having heroes:
Isaac Asimov tended to be this way. He also had no real villains in his books. Asimov and Kurt Vonnegut were much alike. In the Foundation series, the psycho-historians behind the Gambit Roulette believe every conflict in human history comes from people not understanding each other. This is no Gut Feeling: they have human reactions and brain chemistry down to an exact science.
Dave Mason's "We Just Disagree."
There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys. / There's only you and me and we just disagree.
Here are some examples of this trope that leave out the White in WAGM:
open/close all folders
Anime and Manga
Astro Boy: While minor human crooks and such may be genuinely evil, the Big Bad Dr. Tenma and related characters are just Well Intentioned Extremists. If a robot is portrayed as a villain, it's always due to a misunderstanding. This is in contrast to the rest of Osamu Tezuka's work, where pretty much everyone but the main character is always a bastard. Especially Rock.
Cardcaptor Sakura has no true villains either; in the first arc, the Cards are portrayed more as mischievous beings than truly evil troublemakers and are all subject to Defeat Means Friendship, and in the second arc, even the Big Bad Eriol is quickly hinted (and revealed at the end) to be much more of a Trickster Mentor. All the intelligent characters are presented as decent people, which underscores the "Humans Are Good" part of the trope.
Digimon Tamers proves that, yes, you can have intense conflict without anyone who is properly "bad." Every Big Bad is actually trying to prevent threats to their worlds, and you can see why they consider the other side to be bad news. Even the final Greater-Scope Villain is just a program acting on its orders; see Gone Horribly Right.
It goes even farther back, actually. In Digimon Adventure 02, almost all of the main antagonists (Ken, Oikawa, Blackwargreymon, even Arukenimon and Mummymon) are revealed to possess sympathetic traits or motives. Most, in fact, turn out to be pawns of the true Big Bad, Myotismon, who is a straight-up Card-Carrying Villain.
Dog Days: In any other show, warmongering Galette would be pretty clearly evil, but given that "warmongering", in this case, means "healthily appreciative of sporting activities", we've just got a bunch of friendly, polite Worthy Opponents instead.
In Fairy Tail, the majority of the major villains have reasonable and sympathetic motives. The first one is trying to release a monster so he can defeat it, which is the thing his teacher died doing; he merely wants to prove himself by surpassing her. Another notable villain was a slavemaster who spent 8 years building a tower to revive the most dangerous dark wizard in history because he was brainwashed into thinking it would bring about a Utopia. Both of these later pulled a Heel–Face Turn. Some later enemies, like the Oración Seis and Grimoire Heart guilds had guild masters and some members truly in the black morality pitch. However, most of the guild members were given sympathetic backstories and reasons for joining these guilds — like how Ultear's entire "evilness" is because of a misunderstanding in her childhood.
Most of the five series heavily favored this trope. The show tended not to have very many truly evil people and the ones that seemed to be would get fleshed out or retconned later to be more sympathetic. Typically most people could be reasoned with and almost everybody was just looking out for their own if they weren't motivated by nobler intentions. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine skews furthest from this trope with the Federation becoming a bit greyer and the Dominion being darker than is typical of the other series.
The Next Generation-era Ferengi were universally motivated by greed, embodying the worst of crony-capitalism on a show that tended to favor capitalist utopias. Deep Space Nine, despite being overall darker, pulled the Ferengi into the gray range, even introducing a number of social reforms during their run and having the Alpha Quadrant be saved by a Ferengi.
Most of the antagonistic politicians wanted what was best—they just had different opinions of what was "best" for America. At worst, they tended toward stupid corruption, greed, and tendency to stretch the truth. There were actual evil people like the Western Terrorists, but they mostly stayed off-screen and seldom lasted long.
Even corrupt characters often had redeeming qualities. Russel, for instance, is probably the morally second-worst person on the show who isn't one of those briefly appearing or off-screen terrorists mentioned above, but even he won't let the president bomb the wrong country on the mistaken belief that they'd developed atomic bombs of their own in The Warfare of Genghis Khan and is disgusted at hearing on the news about a woman in Turkey being executed for adultery in King Corn. The worst non-terrorist character is Robert Ritchie, who even goes so far as to not seem to feel any sympathy when he hears about a secret service agent being killed in the line of duty ("crime...boy, I don't know"). Aside from some terrorists and homophobic activists, Ritchie's the only complete villain on the show. Even the Christian right are portrayed as low and mean, but not pure evil.
Chronicles of Tsufanubra features some genuinely morally depraved characters, but only in the backstory. Everyone in the present-day conflict is either doing what they think is best in light of what those earlier characters did, or is being manipulated.
Used tragically in Mega Man Zero. In the midst of this rebellion, barring the psychopaths (Copy X, Elpizo, Omega, and Weil), no one on either side is truly evil. The Zero series has some of the most sympathetic antagonists (Harpuia being #1) in the whole franchise.
Tales of the Abyss makes it clear from beginning to end that both sides ultimately want to accomplish the same goal, removing the Score's hold on the world. They just have very different methods on doing so.
Here are the examples of half-context WAGM that I fixed so far (the fixes are both bold and italicized like this):
Anime and Manga
Little Witch Academia goes this way as well. Virtually no character is truly evil or even a complete Jerkass, while everyone else is good-hearted. Akko is an All-Loving Hero who uses her magic to make her friends safe and happy; in fact, her magic is created by her desire to make others happy.Even Professor Croix, the Big Bad, winds up undergoing a Heel–Face Turn by the end.
Stellvia of the Universe: There The heroines are kind and selfless while there isn't even a single negative character in the series — even the aliens are good. Or at least, they expressed regret after slaughtering a Keiti wing almost wholesale.
Tokyo Godfathers: The main protagonists are a trio of homeless people, and despite the negative stereotype associated with homelessness, they come off as relatively decent people with sympathetic reasons for their homelessness, and one of them is a Jerk with a Heart of Gold. The closest thing the film has to an antagonist is a desperate, sad woman who stole a baby out of desperation for a family and even she sees the error of her ways.
WALL•E: On one hand, the titular Wall-E is a friendly and lovable robot with a sense of curiosity, and EVE started off as cold and demanding until she Took a Level in Kindness. On the other hand, the villain of the film was a robot that was doing exactly what it was programmed to do by programmers who themselves just had incomplete information, and all the humans soon fell head over heels in love with the world as soon as they were jerked out of their reverie and take responsibility to work to undo their ancestors' mistakes.
Finding Nemo: Marlin may be an Overprotective Dad, but he means well for his son, the titular Nemo. Dory herself is a Ditz, but she comes off as a Nice Girl. Dr. Sherman took Nemo because he mistakenly believed he would not be able to survive on his own with a deformed fin, and Darla is a "fish-killer" because she is a child who doesn't know any better. The other antagonists of the film are simply mindless predators. It's worth noting that both Finding Nemo and WALL•E were directed by Andrew Stanton.
The original Toy Story: The main toys, Woody and Buzz, have their own personal flaws to deal with, but at heart, they are good-hearted toys who manage to get over said flaws. Sid is a bit of a Jerkass, but he's mostly just a boy who likes playing in an unorthodox way with his toys. Unfortunately, the protagonists areLiving Toys. In Toy Story 2, Al is also a Jerkass but otherwise is just a bit of a slob. He steals Woody as well, but considering it got him a deal with a museum that could have gotten him hundreds of thousands of dollars, it's hard to not understand why. And in Al's defense, he did try to buy Woody legitimately. Also, while Stinky Pete may have been revealed to be a Manipulative Bastard near the end of the movie, he did honestly think he was doing what was best for the Woody and the others, and certainly had a genuine friendliness to him in spite of his villainy. Plus, he is even revealed to have a very sympathetic reason for wanting to go to Japan. Note that this trope is averted in Toy Story 3 with Lotso. But Toy Story 4 brings it back as the only antagonistic character being Gabby Gabby, who like Stinky Pete is a toy who never had a child in his life and thus performs some questionable things to make her ends meet - though she's overall good intentioned and unlike Pete, doesn't end the movie being deemed as bad.
Music
Arch-Enemy: (Used to be "Depending on your view of the government.") Interestingly for a Melodic Death Metal band, the conflict between KHAOS and the government CAN be this Trope, as KHAOS is portrayed as heroic, while the government's morality depends on the listener's view.
Tabletop Games
Epyllion: The dragons are either good-hearted, or antagonistic by outside reasons, but never evil by choice. Becoming corrupted by the Darkness is never a good thing, but it is often unavoidable or sympathetically motivated. (PCs can gain a shadow even for getting hurt in battle, concealing their identity, or ignoring a friend's advice, among other things.) Nobody is irredeemable, and it's expected that PCs will often move into the Darkness and out of it.
Theatre
An important theme in Lady Windermere's Fan. The woman whom the titular character thought to be irredeemably wicked makes an enormous self-sacrifice for her, forcing her to re-evaluate her worldview. Although evil is a subject discussed numerous times, especially by Lord and Lady Windermere, there turn out to be no wicked characters in the play; just a misguided but well-meaning and good-hearted woman and a redeemable antagonist.
Heart Beat: The heroes are pretty cheerful and upbeat characters themselves, and they are happy to save the day. While there's only one character in the game who seems to be truly evil; evil, everyone else is redeemable or at least quite sympathetic. You know it's this trope when the majority of your party ends up being people who were initially enemies.
Persona 4: The protagonists are unambiguous heroes who investigate a series of murders while helping people along the way. If the player is feeling kind, this altruism is greatly shown in Yu Narukami, who never ignores someone's pleas for help, no matter how trivial they are. The antagonists are mentally unstable and need help, but they are ultimately doing what they think is best. The only exception is Adachi, the actual murderer, but even then, that character shows remorse later and admits that they have a lot of issues and deserve to be in prison. This is especially odd considering the usual MegaTen game out-Grimdarks just about everything.
Undertale turns out to work this way, assuming that you're doing a Pacifist Run. On that kind of playthrough, you're basically an All-Loving Hero who finds creative ways to end conflicts without a shred of blood. The Random Encounters are just scared, and can all be placated non-lethally. Toriel just wants you to stay in the Ruins where you're safe, and tries her hardest to avoid killing you in her boss fight. Papyrus really does want to capture you to facilitate his long-delayed entry to the Royal Guard, but he's just too kind-hearted to follow through (which, incidentally, is why his entry to the Royal Guard is being delayed). Undyne refuses to accept your mercy, because she is either righteously angry over the monsters you've killed or simply determined to take your SOUL so the barrier can be destroyed, but even she can be made to relent (and if you don't kill anyone, even befriended). Mettaton genuinely does want to kill you, but only to prevent the barrier from being shattered, since step 2 in that plan has always been "destroy humanity", and if you overcome him, he decides you're strong enough to prevent it yourself. And Asgore, the creator of that plan, did it in a fit of grief and very obviously doesn't want to go through with it now that his head is clearer. Even Flowey turns out to be a Jerkass Woobie who is only an asshole because he died long ago, Came Back Wrong, and now literally has no SOUL. When he briefly regains one in the Golden Ending, he shatters the barrier himself and apologizes for everything he did. The only unambiguously bad character is The Fallen Child, and even that's not completely certain, since it is implied in the Golden Ending that they wanted to help the monsters of the Underground, but, through a Freudian Excuse, went about it in a less than merciful way, and it's only your action in a No Mercy route that drives them to become the Greater-Scope Villain and irredeemably evil.
Web Animation
If the Emperor Had a Text-to-Speech Device: Despite its source material being a prime example of Black-and-Gray Morality, the series is firmly rooted in this trope. On the protagonist side, The Emperor may be a jerk but his goals are on the right track and he's actually improving the Crapsack World setting bit-by-bit (which is the point of the series anyways). In fact, there's room for a couple genuinely good (or at least decent-hearted) characters in the setting, such as The Custodian and Vulkan. The main antagonists are not the more monstrous villains of the setting, such as the Tyranids, but rather other citizens of the Imperium who do not accept its reformation out of genuine belief in its current values. Truly evil individuals do appear from time to time, like Asdruabel Vect or Lucius, but mostly serve as comic relief.
After: 90% of the time. Finn and Jake's Jake are our adventure-seeking heroes who battle monsters and baddies to save the day, and they help people along the way, as Finn's motivation for his Chronic Hero Syndrome is that he doesn't want people to feel helpless like his infant self. Their enemies are less evil and more morally challenged, Obliviously Evil or just simple jerks. The Ice King and Lemongrab are good examples of this: the former is an ice wizard who has an obsession with kidnapping princesses, however it's out of loneliness and his Jerkass moments come from not realizing the social impact (due to an incredibly tragic backstory). The latter is a crazy Control Freak who puts people in dungeons for little reason, but it's because he was born utterly nuts instead of being a cruel person. Even Marceline's Dad, who's basically the Devil, is semi Affably Evil and loves his daughter. There are exceptions who definitely stand out, but they're few and far between.
Granted, the fixes may not be perfect, but at least they mention the white side. If anyone feels iffy about these fixes and/or examples, feel free to re-edit them.
Edited by KJsixteen on Jul 17th 2020 at 12:26:11 PM
TL;DR: Most examples only talk about the Grey side instead of both the Grey and the White sides.
I made a thread just like these
two
, but I think this is the most appropriate forum to start this thread.
Anyways, the description of White-and-Grey Morality is that there are unambiguously good heroes and morally ambiguous villains. The problem is that many examples of this trope only talk about how the "bad guys" aren't bad and/or evil simply not existing (unless exceptions are mentioned) while saying nothing about The Heroes and why they're good, which is ignoring the word WHITE in its title. Meanwhile the other Shades of Conflict, Black-and-White Morality, Grey-and-Gray Morality, and Black-and-Gray Morality have both sides detailed and descripted.
I think this is a problem because not only is telling half of this trope's examples feels half-baked, it's unfair when this trope doesn't get full contexts whereas the other tropes do, and this habit of leaving out the heroes results in people thinking "no bad guys = this trope", even though that rule also applies to Grey-and-Gray Morality and Good vs. Good. If people follow this habit, then by that logic, examples of Black-and-Gray Morality would only detail the "good guys" and why they're not good while leaving out the Villains and why they're evil.
These are the examples of half-context WAGMs that are deleted for not having heroes:
Here are some examples of this trope that leave out the White in WAGM:
Here are the examples of half-context WAGM that I fixed so far (the fixes are both bold and italicized like this):
Granted, the fixes may not be perfect, but at least they mention the white side. If anyone feels iffy about these fixes and/or examples, feel free to re-edit them.
Edited by KJsixteen on Jul 17th 2020 at 12:26:11 PM
Google Snake Game.