During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
Goku Black
Alright:
- Senna is ultimately a Smug Snake so burn her.
- Nyarl is too evil. Cut
- Saint Dane is one my favourite villains but hes also an uber Omnicidial Maniac and one of the most evil villains in all of YA literature, so cut.
- Kronos is too much of a dick.
- pennywise can be burned.
- Nicodemeus is a hell no. Hes a Smug Snake who has a creepy incestous relationship with his daughter.
- OG moriarty shpuld be burned. He doesnt fit many of the criteria in the orginal and its more adaptions that made him this. Like Ambar said iconic but not this trope.
edited 2nd Jun '18 3:23:58 PM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Anyways, Edmund:
- King Lear: Edmund of Gloucester, the literal bastard son of the Duke of Gloucester, executes a plan to consolidate power and play even his own family as pawns while vowing to make the gods themselves "stand up for bastards." Edmund frames his brother for treason and convinces him to flee into exile while manipulating his father into granting him Edgar's legitimate birthright, before exposing Gloucester's sympathy for King Lear and handing him off to the Duke of Cornwall. As the Duke of Gloucester, Edmund schemes for the throne of Britain itself and seduces Lear's own ambitious daughters to further his own power. Even on his deathbed, Edmund finally finds the grace to defy his own bastardly nature and rescinds the order he had previously given to execute Lear and Cordelia — a sentiment which, tragically, is too late.
edited 2nd Jun '18 5:14:53 PM by Scraggle
On the literature...
- The Count of Monte Cristo: Yes. Knowing what was done to him provides the context for why he goes after revenge against these people, and the way he does it is what qualifies him for the trope.
- I would need to reread Gormenghast, unfortunately I'm struggling to remember the particulars. But I recall Steerpike being very awful.
- Les Liaisons Dangereuses: I think Isabella may be too much of a bastard (bitch) for this trope.
- Pendragon Adventure: Dane is far too awful.
- The Nom Anor example seems to be an Examples Are Not Arguable violation — it's practically talking itself out of being on the page. I don't know the work, but that makes me suspicious.
- The trouble with the Wizard of Oz example is that Oscar Diggs is already the ruler when the story starts — this is all just back story. The remainder of the example seems to be trying to expand the entry to cover all iterations of the character (there's been a few). It needs to be narrowed down, and it needs to be relevant to the actual events of the stories, not simply the back story to some of the stories. For example, we don't find out what he did to Princess Ozma until The Marvelous Land of Oz (the sequel to The Wonderful Wizard of Oz when Glinda tells the story to the protagonist and his friends. That particular example is also awkward because Baum tried to retcon the Wizard's involvement from what happened to Ozma (in The Marvelous Land of Oz, he's told the story of Ozma for the first time as if he'd never been the cause of it). Future legacy writers tried to fix this problem, but I think Oscar should be cut.
Discworld
- Lord Vetinari is a keeper. It needs a better write-up, it's too conversation, has too much Word Cruft and the parabomb can do with being blitzed.
- Samuel Vimes does need an EP. He's complicated in the sense that he never appears to have the scale of Vetinari.... until he does.
- Carrot. Absolutely not. Cut with prejudice.
- Cut all three of the witches (Granny Weatherwax, Tiffany Aching and Nanny Ogg). Granny and Nanny at the very least are covered by 'School of Hard Knocks and Life Experience'.
edited 2nd Jun '18 3:20:27 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Steerpike is....bad, but in the "murders and manipulates in a rise to power"...I don't think he ever crosses a line to disqualify himself, exactly.
Yeah, as I said, I'd need to re-read the story to know which way to vote on him. I'm happy to defer to people who remember the story better than I do.
edited 2nd Jun '18 3:21:50 PM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
@ Wyldchyld, that's another fair point about Hoshi, its likely the same reason the Mirror Universe can't have a Complete Monster, its just too screwed up. I think you are right and she likely does not count.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
From Batman: White Knight
For what I have read, Jack Napier entire point is that he is legitimately The Atoner. So he is far from a legit bastard, he is Guile Hero. So CUT.
edited 2nd Jun '18 4:10:41 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my country
Found this in the Western Animation page
In an episode of Archer, Lana decides to get even on Cyril for cheating on her by having sex with everyone else in the office. At least that's what she tells Cyril. In reality, she makes all the guys pay her for the privilege of saying they had sex with her.
Gillette: [I'm] confused. If you told every guy the same thing, then they all know that none of them had sex with you, so they're all going to realize that they're all lying.
Pam: Hey, yeah!
Random office guy outside door: Wait a minute...
Lana: But remember: They're dudes.
Second random office guy outside door: What?
First random office guy: Uh... I had sex with Lana.
Second random office guy: Me too.
Gillette: Lana Kane, you magnificent bastard.
From the same show, Malory Archer is another anti-heroic example. She has a natural gift for playing both sides of a conflict in such a way that her actions only ever have consequences for other people. The only time it ever failed her was when Pam beat her up at the end of "El Secuestro".
Cut?
edited 2nd Jun '18 4:40:24 PM by G-Editor
No to both, that’s a joke by Ray, Lana approaches nowhere near the villainy and Mallory is very much a Politically Incorrect Villain.
@Wyldchyld re: Nom Anor: The problem with Anor is that he's from a nineteen-book story arc with multiple authors and his level of competence varies considerably Depending on the Writer (though he doesn't have it as bad as his sometime-boss sometime-ally, Tsavong Lah, who can range from a borderline-MB himself to an Ax-Crazy idiot - Lah as written by Aaron Allston vs Lah by Walter Jon Williams might as well be completely different characters). At Anor's best I'd call him an easy keep; at his worst, he's a Smug Snake. Not really sure how the thread wants to handle a situation like this.
EDIT: If people decide he's worth talking about, I'd be willing to effortpost him.
edited 2nd Jun '18 6:20:37 PM by MasterGhandalf
''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us..."
That is precisely the issue I have with Anor.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Uh, it sounds worth discussing. How much is Depending on the Writer? How were his last appareances.
I wrote two entries for two aproved candidates but nobody said anything about them. I just should post them in the drafts, right? I always do that in the CM drafts, but given that we are just organizing it and is loaded, maybe I should wait. English is not my native lenguage, that is why my original entries always look weird and have to be fixed for someone who actually knows the lenguage.
How they look? I post them already or not?
- ∀ Gundam: Guin Sard Lineford is a lord of the Principality of Inglessa, fallen in disgrace after the fall of his country, he manages to keep his influence thanks to his friendship with the Luziannan princess Lily Borjano. An ambitious, young and visionary lord, Guin manages to successfully lead the forces on Earth against the technologically advanced Moonrace and study their technology. Initially one of Loran' smartest allies, Guin eventually betrays him to join Gym Ghingham and take a role as the leader of a new technological revolution, failing only because the stupid cruelty of the warlord and accepting his defeat at hands of his former friend and political ally Lily Borjano, saving Gym' protégée and escaping with her.
- Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse: While Stephen, creator of the Demon Summoning Program, fills his regular role in the Peace route, faking being Dr. Matsuda and creating the Shesha Radar to stop the legendary snake, deluding even the player and erasing the memories of himself from everyone except Nanashi after the act is done. Stephen shows a ruthless side of himself in the Massacre route, where he sides with Nanashi and Dagda in their plan to destroy the universe and create a new one, leading to the annihilation without reincarnation of all demons, all while keeping his polite personality. Manipulating humans into joining together in a Last Stand against Nanashi, knowing that they would be slaughtered, he admits sending them as a way to test his determination. Staying friendly, Stephen warns Nanashi from committing the same mistakes as the other gods while he leaves, fascinated with the possibility of a world where humanity rules over everything
, I fixed your grammar and flow. Lemme know if you like these and if you want any potholes in them:
- ∀ Gundam: Guin Sard Lineford is the former lord of the Principality of Inglessa, falling into disgrace with the defeat of his country, though managing to keep his influence thanks to his friendship with the Luziannan princess Lily Borjano. A young, ambitious and visionary lord, Guin successfully leads the forces of Earth against the technologically advanced Moonrace and study their advanced weapons. One of the heroes' smartest allies, Guin eventually betrays them to join Gym Ghingham, taking a role as the leader of a new technological revolution, which only fails because of the barbaric behaviour of the latter. Accepting his defeat at the hands of his former friend and political ally, Lily, Guin saves Gym's protegee and escapes with her.
- Shin Megami Tensei IV Apocalypse: Although in the Peace route Stephen, the creator of the Demon Summoning Program, just repeats his usual role and fakes being Dr. Matsuda and creates the Shesha Radar to stop the legendary snake, before erasing the memory of himself from everyone except Nanashi after, he shows more ruthlessness in the Massacre route. Siding with Nanashi and Dagda, Stephen aids them with their plan to destroy the universe and create a new one, without reincarnating the demons in the new world. Manipulating humans to join together in a Last Stand against Nanashi, knowing they would be slaughtered, Stephen admits he did this to test his own determination to his goal. Never losing his polite, friendly demeanour, Stephen warns Nanashi to avoid making the same mistakes as the other Gods before leaving, fascinated with the possibility of a world where humanity rules everything.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Dont believe that I want to use my new versions, I just did them to show the corrections that I proposed you via PM.
edited 2nd Jun '18 9:02:47 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my country
@ Ghandalf, that's a... weird case, I almost wanna judge it based on whether or not he ends on a high or low but it's skewed given the variance, to say the least.
@ Kazuya, I PM'd you my thoughts.
Anor ends up basically playing everyone against everyone in the last book while trying to ride the chaos he helped cause (long story), but when the broader situation of the series develops so that he really has no win condition at all, he chooses to Face Death with Dignity in what's one of his more powerful scenes (The Unifying Force, the Grand Finale of the New Jedi Order, is consider one of the rather uneven storyline's high points in general). Fans of Star Wars Legends still expected him to turn up alive for years (out of universe) afterwards (the actual moment of his death is rather conspicuously not shown) and turn out to be behind everything in the subsequent storylines, but it never happened.
edited 2nd Jun '18 9:09:24 PM by MasterGhandalf
''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us..."
The issue is he ultimately does have a true chance to come out on top when he embraces his identity as the leader of a rebellion he had helped foment...but he proceeds to go back on that when he sees the Jedi. At the very end, though, when he's out of places to run, he decides everything is against him and he has no true place left, choosing to remain aboard a dying ship with as much dignity as he can.
The depths of his scheming are genuinely impressive, though. He's a fascinating character, who fomented incredible destabilization in the galaxy, then plays his own former empire, plays the people he was betraying them for, plays the New Republic...if nothing else, he's worth the EP.
Btw, Ghandalf, any thoughts on my Kellhus writeup?
edited 2nd Jun '18 9:13:44 PM by Lightysnake
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Honestly? I am inclined to vote ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for him. The character had to cause me to say that they are Magnificent and Bastards, which seems to be the case with him.
Also, I like your write-up, Lightysnake. The character is a
edited 2nd Jun '18 9:33:57 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my country
Yeah, Anor basically burns his bridges with everyone due to Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, though by his own admission in his last scene he'd probably never fit in anywhere anyway - too secular for the rabidly-religious Yuuzhan Vong (his own people), too cynically ambitious and self-absorbed for the Jedi, too hated as the face of the enemy for anyone else. But he goes out on his own terms as much as he can under the circumstances.
EDIT: And what's really impressive about Anor is his ability to land on his feet, even if he can't quite manage it at the end. Even when he screws up, mostly early in the series, he always manages to wriggle out of it - and considering he comes from a civilization that makes the Galactic Empire look fluffy and cuddly in comparison, that's a very impressive feat. Heck, one book ends with the protagonists leaving him for dead, assuming that the Vong leadership will execute him for screwing up* - and the next opens with him still in a respected position, having almost entirely shifted the blame to someone else. Surviving that sort of thing in a species where "death by torture" is an afternoon hobby takes doing.
- The person who outplayed in in that context is someone I'd have considered effortposting if subsequent retcons hadn't turned her into an entirely incoherent mess of a character I'd rather not touch with a ten-foot pole.
As for Kelhus, I don't remember having any particular opinion on your EP itself, though Kellhus as a character is an obvious keep.
edited 2nd Jun '18 9:39:02 PM by MasterGhandalf
''All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us..."
I'm a little nervous, but here goes.
What's the work?
Fallout: New Vegas is a mainline entry in the Fallout game series. Years after a nuclear apocalypse tore America a new one, the denizens of the Mojave Wasteland managed to somewhat reconstruct a new society for themselves. Unfortunately, Caesar's Legion is right across the eastern river, ready to enslave and conquer the Mojave after they seize Hoover Dam, the main source of energy in the wasteland. The New California Republic (NCR for short) is doing what it can to quell the raiders and protect the Mojave from the Legion, but they're stretched too thin to make enough of a difference, and most of the citizens hate them regardless.
In the middle of it all is one guy, ready to exploit that shit for all it's worth: electronics mogul and de-facto king of New Vegas, Robert Edwin House.
Who is Mr. House?
Before the Great War, House lost his parents and was screwed out of his inheritance by his half-brother. Despite this setback, he managed to make his way through the Fallout equivalent of MIT and founded RobCo Industries, an electronics company that amassed him a multi-billion dollar fortune, which he used to slowly buy out the companies of his own family until his brother only had one factory left.
House managed to predict that nuclear annihilation was all but inevitable, and put every last penny into setting up precautions to protect himself and Las Vegas. He wasn't quite correct on when the bombs would drop (he was off by about a day), but he still managed to set up most of his countermeasures and only failed to secure the Platinum Chip, which was necessary to finalize his plan. His systems protected Vegas and himself from most of the nukes. Meanwhile, the man himself invented immortality, and survived to the present day by uploading his mind into a network, at the cost of ruining his physical body.
Fast forward to the near-present. House rebuilds Vegas, civilizing three nearby tribes into being his subordinates and managing to convince one of them (the White Glove Society) to not eat people, because it's rude. At this point he's managed to build an oasis in the wasteland known as the Strip, using his heavily-armed Securitron robots to uphold the law within, and keeping the residents happy with booze, prostitutes, and gambling. Eventually, the NCR shows up to colonize the Mojave, and they could easily manhandle House and his forces. Instead, House takes advantage of their spread out military to negotiate with them - in exchange for the Strip's independence, House allows them to use the Strip as a military base (protecting himself further), and they may use the majority of the power coming from Hoover Dam (with the rest of it going to the Strip). He also lets their troops use the Strip's services for further income - he even calls them his best customers.
The game starts, and it's revealed that the Platinum Chip that House so covets has been found. He has six couriers spread out among the wastes - five with random garbage as distractions, and one, the Courier, with the Chip, each with their own group of mercenaries to protect them. His subordinate Benny betrays him, shooting the Courier twice in the head and seizing the Chip for himself. House saves the Courier with a Securitron named Victor and brings him to Goodsprings, where they are brought back to health. After this, the Courier tracks down Benny, and gets the Chip back so that they can deliver some goddamn mail.
Due to the nature of the game's storyline, it's up to the Courier to decide how things go next. For now we'll focus on what happens if they become House's lieutenant. House uses the Platinum Chip to upgrade his Securitrons to the Mark II software, allowing them to start using their previously disabled rocket launchers. House's true weapon - an army of upgraded Securitrons - lays in a bunker inactive underneath the Legion's base, which he assigns the Courier to activate by any means. Then, House deploys the Courier to take care of any potential threats, either by becoming allies with them or destroying them. He orders the Courier to protect NCR President Aaron Kimball from Legion assassination, because House knows that once he wins the war Kimball will be a political scapegoat for the NCR's loss, taking pressure off himself. Once the Battle for Hoover Dam rolls around and the player deals with Legate Lanius and General Lee Oliver, House emerges with his army of Securitrons, deals with the remaining NCR, thanks the player for their help, and rewards them with all the luxuries he can, while either taking pride in his choice of employees (if the Courier has Good karma) or secretly fearing them (if they're Evil). Once he wins, House spreads his improved Securitrons all over the wasteland, and becomes the absolute ruler of the Mojave.
Is he Magnificent?
House's preparedness is his strongest point. He prepared countless countermeasures to protect what he could from a fairly sudden nuclear war, tricked the NCR into financing and protecting him, and ultimately managed to stay enough under the radar that nobody tries coming after him until it's too late. Even before the Courier shows up, he's more or less manipulated himself into a fairly happy position where he's safe and making money. The plot only derails him twice, once by bad luck and the other by Benny, and he bounces back from both - the only thing that can stop him for good is the Wild Card, the Courier, who House explicitly tries to ally himself with by saving their life and offering wealth, comfort, and a voice in the future of mankind (compare the NCR, who are basically begging for help, and the Legion, who try forcing you to do their dirty work). If the player tries to kill him anyway, he cuts his losses and sicks his Securitrons on you.
Is he a Bastard?
House is ruthless and a total Control Freak. If you're in his way, you're going down. He knows that he's exploiting the lives of NCR soldiers for money and protection and doesn't mind too much. He orders the complete and total annihilation of the Brotherhood of Steel. In the "House Wins" endings, he has his Securitrons assert his rule outside of the Strip. In most of his endings, he has his machines shoot down the Kings, a largely benevolent street gang that chose to fight back against him for the sake of maintaining their independence. He'll also bluntly acknowledge the percent chances of Kimball and Oliver resigning and committing suicide after he ruined their lives.
Is he Charming?
House has plenty of redeeming traits. If the Courier helps him, he takes a shine to them, and as his ending indicates he's happy to give them the benefits he promised - he even wants them join him in immortality. His ultimate plan upon taking over is to try and get everybody off of Earth as soon as possible, to live on worlds untainted by man's hand. He believes in Pragmatic Villainy, and views pointless murder as barbaric. Throughout it all, he's suave, composed, and rarely cracks. If somebody fails him the most he reacts with is either indifference or mild sarcasm. Even if he's annoyed he'll rarely break out of his monotone voice.
That said, there are exactly three moments where his dignity is compromised. The first is the subject of the Brotherhood of Steel, where he gets uncharacteristically flustered, calling them "ridiculous" and ordering their elimination. This is the only time in the game where he lets his emotions get the better of him, though it should be mentioned that the Mojave Brotherhood is pretty much awful and it's implied House knows they'll come after him once he comes to power, hence his desire to kill them. An interaction where the Courier convinces him to spare them was planned to be put in, but I'm not really sure how on board you all are for cut content, so I'll just leave it there.
The second is that, according to his Securitrons, ghouls and super mutants are to be treated as if they were pets, and not allowed on the Strip without supervision. It seems like classic Fantastic Racism, but House himself has no reaction if you work with Raul, who is a ghoul, and otherwise shows no grievances with either race. It's just a weird throwaway line.
The final moment is his potential death. By working their way through several Securitrons, players can find House's physical body and kill him. If you talk to him beforehand, his reaction varies from broken grieving to furious outrage to frightened begging, but in all cases, once you're done talking, he will pull himself together and defiantly tell you he has nothing more to say, which I believe ultimately salvages it.
Competition?
God, no. House demolishes everybody else in the Fallout universe by a landslide. Even Caesar, himself a brilliant mind, can't even hope to compete with House's resourcefulness and intellect. The world's most badass mailman is the only thing that can really square with him.
Conclusion?
House only loses to factors outside of his control, and does what he can to make sure those factors aren't a problem. Otherwise, he's got the cunning, the sophistication, and the moral grayness that I think lets him clear the bar.
Write-ups for three Ladies Of War:
- Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ: Axis warlord and Neo-Zeon Regent for Life Haman Khan came closer to conquering the Earth Sphere than any of the despots to come before or after her in the UC timeline. Intervening in Zeta Gundam's Gryps Conflict on the side of Paptimus Scirocco's Titans, Haman helped turn the battle between the AEUG and the Titans into a full scale civil war within the Earth Federation, a war from which she emerged as the one true winner following Scirocco's death and the obliteration of the Titans and most of the AEUG. Invading the Earth before the Federation could recover from the war, Haman occupied huge swathes of the planet, and used the Dublin Colony Drop to terrorize Federation officials into surrendering to her, all while employing sheer force of personality to mask her myriad personal issues and hold the backstabbing house of cards that was Axis-Zeon together. Betrayed at the zenith of her power by Glemmy Toto, and faced with internal rebellion by his supporters, Haman quickly moved to quell the descent, meeting Glemmy in open battle. Confronted by series' protagonist Judau Ashta, Haman was persuaded that humanity did not, in fact, need her jackboot on its throat to stop them from killing each other. The only UC Big Bad self-aware enough to come to grips with what she had become, Haman killed herself in the name of giving the world a better future.
- Pathfinder:
- Admiral Druvalia Thrune is the Big Bad of the Skull & Shackles Adventure Path, The Man Behind the Man to Captain Barnabas Harrigan, and the source, directly or indirectly, of all the misery experienced by the player characters. Determined to escape the accusation that her career has been advanced by nepotism alone, Druvalia uses her catspaw, Harrigan to undermine the Shackles' defenses, while her great-uncle's vast wealth enables her to finance a private armada, which her deal with the archdevil Geryon enables her to sail through the Eye of Abendego and strike at the Hurricane King's domains. With only the players even aware that her invasion is about to take place, and the support of one of the rulers of Hell, Druvalia seems to hold a winning hand, and if the PCs do not bring their best game, she is easily capable of running the table and reducing the Shackles to a Chelish colony.
- General Azaersi of the Ironfang Invasion Adventure Path is a brilliant and overambitious hobgoblin general who dreams of building a new homeland for her people atop the bickering human nations of Nirmathas and Molthune. Recruiting dozens of Molthune's monstrous mercenary regiments to her service, securing the alliance of the dark naga Zanathura, the greater barghest Azlowe, and the legendary dragonslayer Kraelos, and rallying hobgoblins from across the continent and beyond, Azaersi builds her Ironfang Legion into one of the deadliest fighting forces in Avistan, and with the aid of a powerful magical artifact, is able to deploy them wherever she sees fit. Rendered all but invincible in the field, Azaersi overruns most of Nirmathas and a large part of Molthune, with the players the only ones who are able to even check her. Unable to best her army in the field, the PCs will likely have to resort to a decapitation strike to remove Azaersi from the head of the Legion—unless they can present her with evidence of treachery from her comrades, in which case, much to their surprise, they may find themselves negotiating a reasonable peace with the hobgoblin generalissimo.
How do those look?
edited 2nd Jun '18 11:08:32 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Shin Megami Tensei IV
to Mr. House
Alright it is past midnight where I'm at making it officially Sundy and been two weeks since the 5th season of a certain show that I enjoy watching… So lets talk about the show Brooklyn Nine-Nine.
What’s The Work?
Brooklyn Nine Nine is a police procedure comedy the revolves around the fictional 99th Precinct of the New York City Police Department in Brooklyn. It follows a team of detectives headed by Captain Raymond Holt. Among the detectives is Jake Peralta, who frequently tops the squad in collars despite his relaxed, carefree attitude, much to the annoyance of his more by-the-book colleague, Amy Santiago. Charles Boyle is a reliable but quirky detective whose emotions can sometimes go wild, as opposed to the stoic and mysterious Rosa Diaz. The final two detectives, Michael Hitchcock and Norm Scully, are older and often incompetent, although not without their usefulness. The detectives report to Sergeant Terry Jeffords, a devoted family man who is initially afraid to go back to active police work for fear that he might die in the line of duty and thus leave his children without a father. Rounding out the precinct is sarcastic civilian administrator Gina Linetti, who seems to value everything like dancing and her social life over work, and does anything to avoid her job.
But we are not here to talk about them. No we are here to talk about the juicy MB candidate that I’ve found in this show… Introducing Doug Judy, AKA Pontiac Bandit!
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Doug Judy is the Pontiac Bandit, a thief and con-artist notorious for having stolen over 200 Pontiacs.
First appearing the Season One’s "Pontiac Bandit", Doug Judy arrives at the precinct claiming to have a lead on the Pontiac Bandit, Jake's arch nemesis. Doug Judy takes Rosa and Jake to meet his mother as his old phone is at her apartment. Doug Judy arranges a meet up with the Pontiac Bandit's men but the man is spooked and leaves. Doug Judy asks to go in alone and Jake allows Doug it. However, this was all a ploy for Doug Judy to escape and frame his barber, Norman Lee as the Pontiac Bandit. When Jake soon realizes this it’s too little too late as Doug Judy manages to escape.
He makes his next appearance in Season 2 "The Pontiac Bandit Returns" where Jake unexpectedly find Doug and manage to arrest him. However Doug Judy manages to turn the tables and cut a deal with Jake by offering him the drug leader for giggle pig in exchange for reduced jail time. Doug Judy also negotiates a four star hotel and for Rosa to be nice to him even having her call him "Big Sugar". Doug Judy gets Jake to enjoy himself and they wear matching robes and eat lobster “Thermidor”. Rosa and Jake get Doug Judy to arrange a meeting with the drug leader. Jake and Doug Judy successfully jack a car and the drug leader takes them to his drug den. Whilst there, Doug Judy uses this opportunity to escape and Jake and Rosa have no choice but to let him since they are too busy trying to catch the drug leader and take down the drug ring. Doug Judy then reveals that this was all a ploy to use the drug leader and his giggle pig ring has as a distraction while he escape and the room service waiter that served Jake and Doug lobster was his accomplice and “Lobster Thermidor” was code for his accomplice to follow.
He returns in Season 3’s "The Cruise" where Doug Judy works as an entertainer for a cruise ship and gives Jake free tickets for him and Amy, trying to ask them for help as he believes somebody is trying to kill him. Jake doesn’t believe and tries to arrested him but have no jurisdiction since they are on international waters and only the captain can arrest him. Jake ask the Captain to arrest him but he doesn’t and says that on the boat Doug Judy is a free man. Jake agrees to help him, especially when it turn out that there is indeed a hitman trying to kill Judy. Jake and Judy comes up with a ploy to lure out the hitman. Judy will be performing In the all ages Piano lounge, attracting as bait It works and where Jake and Amy capture the hitman and saving Judy’s life. However Doug Judy uses this opportunity to escapes the cruise ship, and steal one of the life boats escaping Jake yet again. One the plus side Doug Judy leaves Jake and Amy the keys to his suite and the two enjoy the rest of their time in the cruise.
He returns again in the Season Four Two-Parter "The Fugitive Pt. 1/The Fugitive Pt. 2", where Jake contacts Doug Judy and request his assistance to help catch his adopted brother, George Judy, who escaped prisoned. Doug exploits this situation by requesting Jake and captain Raymond Holt to give him full immunity for all his past crimes, which, according to Holt, Judy has committed 600 crime most of which involves stealing cars. Holt reluctantly allows Doug to help Jake catch George. However Doug Judy manages to help his brother escape from Jake and Holt after the latter caught George changing a plate to one of the cars he stole. After Jake tracks where the brothers are, they ambush him and it seems that Judy is on George side. However when George tries to shoot Jake, there wasn’t any bullets in them and it turns out that he unloaded Greoge’s gun he the latter wasn’t paying attention and helps Jake catch George. He is granted full immunity for all his crimes by the end of the episode and giving Doug a chance to start over and go straight…
…Then in Season 5’s "The Negotiation", Doug Judy goes back to his old ways as he steals a car that belonged to a powerful crime lord who threatened to kill his mother and contacts Jake to help him again, how by creating a hostage situation holding three people hostage in a newly store. Doug persuades Jake to help him in his situation on the pretense that he will turn himself in to authorities which Jake reluctantly goes through. Doug release the hostages, not before discreetly stealing the diamonds from the jewelry store, goes to an ally way to meet with the crime lord that Doug stole his car from. Things goes seemingly well then, the bitter negotiator who Jake stole his job from shows up tries to arrest Doug and allows the crime lord to escape. Luckily Jake catches the crime lord, but at the cost of Doug Judy escaping with the stolen diamond. All seems lost but then a miracle happen… No Jake doesn’t catch Doug, but Doug decides to give Jake a video recording and the diamonds he stole, saying that while he may be a scorpion and Jake may be a frog, he will never sting his beautiful back. The episode end with Jake singing karaoke with Doug’s pre-recorded video.
Is he Intelligent? Is he charismatic?
For intelligence Doug certainly has it. He’s capable of coming up with complex plans and orchestrating events that involves escaping from Jake and the 99 precinct or benefit Doug in any other way while he play them all like a fiddle, while also making certain to have some form of leverage, such as having Jake meet him on a cruise ship knowing that he cant arrest him or getting himself full immunity as leverage for his assistance. If in unexpected situations such as where he never expects to encounter Jake in a Santa costume arresting him, he never looses his cool and always turn the situation in his favor by giving him another bad guy to arrest while plot another escape plan.
For Charisma, lets just say his charisma knows no bounds. He’s an Affably Evil con man, whose able to charm anyone in an instant from, even the people who do know him like Jake, who admits he cant really hate Judy. His charm also affect the audience with Craig Robinson doing such a wondering performance being so charismatic that he’s a major Ensemble Dark Horse and that you actually want Doug Judy to alway get away. Honestly the only person both in-universe and out who isn’t affected by Judy’s charm is Rosa, which is ironic since he has a crush on her.
What’s the Competition Like?
While Brooklyn 99 is a comedy, its not like South Park where everyone’s an complete idiot. In fact a lot of the people in the show are every intelligent, including Jake who despite showing immaturity on occasion is actually a very competent detective. Even Hitchcock and Scully the resident Loads aren’t as dumb as they seem and only act like they do so no one would give them responsibilities (Not that It matter since Doug never interacts with Hitchcock and Scully.)
Also, Brooklyn Nine Nine is first and foremost a police procedural and the show has introduce several genuinely dangerous criminals. These include Figgis a notorious crime boss and a major Knight of Cerebus who tried to have Adrien Pemento killed several times and causes Jake and Holt to go into witness protection, a crooked cop that frames Jake and Rose for the crimes that she committed causing them to spend 6 months in prison, Seamus Murphy a local mobster that attempted to kill Holt’s husband Kevin several time, and many others. However while all of them were too cocky for their own good and got arrested as a result, Doug Judy is the only perp to have got away from the 99 and has done so not once or twice, but five times (four if you don’t count getting immunity for all his crimes getting away). Doug is never shown to be a Smug Snake and is always observant to his environment finding ways and carefully creating ploys to escape the 99. So here he reigns supreme.
And while the show is still running, I believe Doug Judy does more than enough to qualify and if he appears in the future, I'd be more than happy to expand his write-up
Is He a Bastard? Is He Too Much of a Bastard?
Aright Doug Judy is the Pontiac Bandit, an notorious thief and con-artist whose committed 600 crimes and has stolen 200 cars. He has framed his barber for the crimes he has committed, know problem giving up other criminal’s names up for a better position in ala Raymond Redington fashion style, has hold people hostage, and clearly loves messing with the 99 precinct while he makes his spectacular Keyser Söze like escapes, especially Jake.
That said he’s definitely not too much of a bastard. He’s a genuine Affably Evil fellow who sincerely likes Jake, even giving a Platonic Declaration of Love to Jake while escaping the cruise ship, and makes it clear that he’ll never seriously screw over Jake, his friends or any innocents people, even giving his hostages each 500 dollars out of his own pocket as compensation. He makes sure that the only people he really screws over are unrepentant criminals, such as his adopted brother George who was in prison a triple homicide and even his barber has some crimes under his belt. Doug also has a mom who he really loves dearly making sure to spare time in his plan to see her once more before leaving town. Also while he may be 99’s most elusive felons, Doug Judy is NOT a Dirty Coward and has in fact put himself in harm’s way, risking his own safety and life to save Jake from his psychotic brother.
Final Verdict?
Sorry Eric Cartman, but Doug Judy is a true Magnificent Bastard that just happens to be "Big-Boned"!
edited 4th Jun '18 7:16:11 PM by G-Editor
Goku Black
I'll say to Mr House and Doug Judy.
I'll vote in a bit but for now lemme put up what I'll be submitting, anyone who wants a last minute add on to the drafts please do so now:
- Golgo 13: Master assassin Duke Togo, better known as Golgo 13, spends most of his stories coming up with a complex gambit to fool his target and get him in a position to take his shot. A master sniper, Togo has been active decades with incredibly few failures and a sterling reputation as a professional. In one instance, he tricked a CIA traitor into leading him to her boss while wearing a red coat against the snowy background to snipe them both in one shot. In another, knowing a mobster was faster on the draw than him, Golgo fooled him into being occupied with his dominant arm holding on to a woman so Golgo could outdraw him. Throughout every story, what characterizes Golgo 13 is cold charisma and unreadable expression, always having a plan to take out his target, no matter who it is.
- Gundam: In a franchise featuring endless wars, these villains truly stand out for their charisma and intelligence in the field of battle:
- Universal Century:
- Mobile Suit Gundam: Kycilia Zabi was the last member of her family standing for a reason. Fully aware of her elder brother Gihren's moral depravity and mismanagement of the conflict with the Earth Federation, Kycilia uses the One Year War as a cover for a coup d'etat against him, gathering resources and allies, while undermining Gihren's loyalists. Upon discovering through Colonel Killing's betrayal that Gihren had infiltrated her faction and was preparing to frame her for treason, Kycilia moved swiftly, leaking Char's identity to Gihren's fake conspirators and transforming a sham plot into an actual revolt against his rule. Aware that Zeon could no longer win the war, and that the Federation would never make peace while her brother lived, Kycilia journeyed to A Baoa Qu and, on finding out that Gihren had murdered their father, executed him for patricide and assumed command of what was left of Zeon. Killed when Char Aznable erratically and irrationally betrayed her, Kycilia was nevertheless the only Zabi, or indeed, Zeon Admiral, with both a realistic appreciation of their circumstances, and the ruthlessness and will to act accordingly.
- Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam: Titans Lieutenant Paptimus Scirocco is an Enigmatic Minion who graduates to taking over the organization. A brilliant tactician both in and out of a mobile suit, Scirocco excels at reading potential in his subordinates and outmaneuvers the Anti-Earth Union Group (AEUG) to capture the strategic base of the lunar city Von Braun. Leaving the operating of Von Braun in the hands of his antagonistic superior, Scirocco leaks the man's plans to the AEUG and arranges for his death to gain more power within the Titans for himself. Forming an alliance with Haman Khan of Neo Zeon, Scirocco bolsters the strength of the dying Titans with her army. To take power, Scirocco personally assassinates their leader, Jamitov Hymem, taking over the Titans and blaming Jamitov's death on Haman, rallying his forces to fight against her. Giving a former AEUG pilot he corrupted to his side a grand speech on his ambitions for humanity, Scirocco engages the AEUG personally and reveals he has kept his alliance with Haman to revitalize the strength of his forces. Even with his forces destroyed by the blast of a colony laser, Scirocco continues to fight Kamille personally and in his dying moments, destroys Kamille's mind, unwilling to accept defeat. Emotionally manipulative but charming and stylish, Scirocco proves himself to be every bit as deadly and cunning as he is mysterious.
- Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ: Axis warlord and Neo-Zeon Regent for Life Haman Khan came closer to conquering the Earth Sphere than any of the despots to come before or after her in the UC timeline. Intervening in Zeta Gundam's Gryps Conflict on the side of Paptimus Scirocco's Titans, Haman helped turn the battle between the AEUG and the Titans into a full scale civil war within the Earth Federation, a war from which she emerged as the one true winner following Scirocco's death and the obliteration of the Titans and most of the AEUG. Invading the Earth before the Federation could recover from the war, Haman occupied huge swathes of the planet, and used the Dublin Colony Drop to terrorize Federation officials into surrendering to her, all while employing sheer force of personality to mask her myriad personal issues and hold the backstabbing house of cards that was Axis-Zeon together. Betrayed at the zenith of her power by Glemmy Toto, and faced with internal rebellion by his supporters, Haman quickly moved to quell the descent, meeting Glemmy in open battle. Confronted by series' protagonist Judau Ashta, Haman was persuaded that humanity did not, in fact, need her jackboot on its throat to stop them from killing each other. The only UC Big Bad self-aware enough to come to grips with what she had become, Haman killed herself in the name of giving the world a better future.
- Correct Century:
- ∀ Gundam: Guin Sard Lineford is the former lord of the Principality of Inglessa, falling into disgrace with the defeat of his country, though managing to keep his influence thanks to his friendship with the Luziannan princess Lily Borjano. A young, ambitious and visionary lord, Guin successfully leads the forces of Earth against the technologically advanced Moonrace and study their advanced weapons. One of the heroes' smartest allies, Guin eventually betrays them to join Gym Ghingham, taking a role as the leader of a new technological revolution, which only fails because of the barbaric behaviour of the latter. Accepting his defeat at the hands of his former friend and political ally, Lily, Guin saves the protegee of Gym and escapes with her.
- Cosmic Era:
- Mobile Suit Gundam SEED: No one hides their true intentions quite like Rau Le Creuset, ZAFT Commander and defective clone. Lacking his own sense of identity, and seeing the face of his "father" every time he looks in the mirror, Le Creuset believes the rest of humanity is suffering just as much as he is, and sets out to put the entire species out of its misery. Playing the role of Patrick Zala's right-hand man, Le Creuset sells ZAFT secrets to Blue Cosmos headman Muruta Azrael, prolonging the Bloody Valentine War, and ensuring that the conflict ends with mutual attempts at genocide, as Azrael tries to nuke the ZAFT colonies and Patrick fires his Wave-Motion Gun at Earth. Successful at masking his encroaching madness until the very end, Le Creuset dies smiling, convinced that the entire world will shortly be following after him.
- Gundam SEED Destiny: ZAFT Chairman Gilbert Durandal sees himself as the saviour of Earth and nearly persuaded most of the planet to go along with it. Presenting himself as a moderate and a pacifist, Durandal made use of Lord Djibril and Blue Cosmos' blatant evil to launch an invasion of the Earth Sphere disguised as a liberation, using his own reputation for honesty and the services of Lacus Clyne impersonator Meer Campbell to camouflage his intentions, and scattering agents of FAITH throughout the ZAFT military to keep an eye on its loyalty. Preying on the emotional insecurities of those in his service, Durandal turned Decoy Protagonist Shinn Auska into the very thing he hated most, and kept veteran characters like Kira, Athrun, and Lacus out of the picture or unsure if they should oppose him for most of the series. Only killed when he loses the faith of his most loyal enforcer, Rey, Durandal dies convinced that he was right and that without his Destiniy Plan the world is doomed.
- Universal Century:
- Lupin The Third:
- Lupin III, the titular thief, is a debonair rogue always ready with a plan for a brand new caper. A thief who savors the rush and thrill of the theft far more than any monetary value, Lupin also delights in paying karmic justice to deserving victims. Throughout multiple anime incarnations, Lupin is characterized by choosing seemingly impossible ventures or is thrust into inescapable situations, only to execute a cunning plan and escape completely free, in one instance even outsmarting an ancient brain supposedly beyond any human being's. Rarely ever losing his playful grin, and always ready with witty repartee, Lupin remains one of anime's most successful examples of a Gentleman Thief who is constantly capable of twisting a situation to his advantage.
- Lupin's occasional lover, rival and ally, Fujiko Mine, is his equal in brilliance and audaciousness. A skilled thief who lives for the rush of the theft, Fujiko is able to perform as many complex schemes as Lupin while constantly outwitting him and everyone around her to get her big score. In one instance in The Woman Called Fujiko Mine, she poses as a tutor at an all girls' school, allows one girl to seduce her, only to reveal she knew the girl was a cop in disguise, to fool him and steal the codes she needed. Equally capable of ruthlessness, Fujiko once escaped prison by seducing a guard and sending him to execution in her place, never hesitating to weaponize her sexuality. At the end, Fujiko allows nobody but her to define herself and stops at nothing to achieve her goals, no matter who she has to manipulate or fool, while always maintaining the same charismatic style as Lupin himself.
- Rurouni Kenshin: Ruthless Social Darwinist Makoto Shishio was once the feared Hitokiri of the Shadows during the Bakumatsu. Betrayed by the government and left for dead, Shishio survived and by virtue of his overwhelming power and charisma creates a powerful organization consisting of loyal soldiers he effortlessly manipulates, with one named Usui even ostensibly wanting revenge against Shishio for blinding him, unaware Shishio is well aware he's lost all hope of vengeance and is just manipulating him by using his pride. Shishio then sets up a complex plan to burn Tokyo, only for it to be revealed this is a ruse as he attacks Kyoto instead. Despite being foiled here, Shishio proceeds to have the heroes fight his men in single matches, all for the purposes of weakening or eliminating them before they face Shishio himself when he gains greater understanding of their abilities through the fights. Even after his defeat and death, Shishio shows no sign of complaint and instantly sets off with his deceased lover and most loyal follower to begin conquering Hell itself.
- Sword Art Online: SAO designer Akihiko Kayaba, a pioneer in the field of Virtual Reality (VR), traps 10,000 players inside his game, killing them in the real world if they die in the VR one. Disguising himself as Big Good Heathcliff and guiding the players through the dungeon floors of Aincrad, Kayaba intends to betray and kill them in the last dungeon, acting as the Final Boss of his own game. When Kirito is able to deduce "Heathcliff's" true identity, Kayaba praises the boy for his observance before challenging him to a duel, promising to end the game of Kirito wins. Keeping his word and freeing the players, Kayaba seemingly commits suicide, though actually copying his Fluctlight onto the internet to continue existing. Reappearing in the next arc, Kayaba helps Kirito defeat the Arc Villain, Sugou, whom even he finds repellent. Entrusting Kirito with his last invention, Kayaba encourages him to go on to share it with the world, leading to the creation of many innovative VR games. Though utterly sociopathic, Kayaba never strayed from his strict moral code and stood out as one of Kirito's most noble foes.
- I, Vampire: Mary the Queen of Blood was born Mary Seward before being turned by her lover Andrew Bennett. Happily embracing her vampiric urges, Mary spends years plotting and building her forces until she initiates a ruthlessly brilliant gambit that nearly sees the vampires take over the entire world in a single day, before manipulating and playing Andrew as well. When her plans are thwarted, Mary ends up depowered and returned to human form before getting her drive back to stop the corrupted Andrew before he destroys the world, even using her death to become a powerful supernatural being that ends up saving the world and achieving redemption in the afterlife. As Mary herself says "being a vampire gave me powers. Being me made me awesome."
- James Bond: Of the many brilliant criminals and terrorists faced by the title character, these few manage to be even a cut about in suaveness and intelligence:
- Dr. No: Dr. Julius No is one of SPECTRE's top operatives and a man of charm and charisma who rules Crab Key, Jamaiaca with his two metal fists. Seeking to disrupt a shuttle launch from America, No outplays everyone sent to the area until Bond's arrival, and even for much o the film Bond is entirely within No's power, only surviving thanks to outwitting No's assassins. When encountered by Bond, No reveals how he completely outwitted the Tongs after crawling up from nothing in Hong Kong as the son of a German missionary and a Chinese woman. Joining SPECTRE, No seeks to help overthrow the orders of east and west blocks alike, and remains one of the most dynamic and striking villains Bond ever faces.
- The Man with the Golden Gun: Francisco Scaramanga was once a circus boy who loved an elephant. When the elephant was abused to death by its trainer, Scaramanga murdered the man and discovered a love for, and talent at killing. Becoming a master assassin, Scaramanga keeps his skills sharp by having his sidekick Nick Nack hire assassins to kill him so he can always test himself with his life on the line. Scaramanga also outplays the ostensible villain of the film, the industrialist Hai Fat, killing him to steal the powerful solar device to sell to the highest bidder and retire. When he has his hands on Bond, Scaramanga demonstrates his respect and wish to challenge Bond by challenging him to a duel, gleeful to show his own talents against the world's greatest secret agent.
- Goldeneye: Once James Bond's best friend, Alec Trevelyan was the son of Cossacks who killed themselves after the betrayal of the British and Stalin's execution squads. Seeking revenge, Alec faked his death, betrayed the British and formed the Janus Crime syndicate. Alec proceeds to manipulate and organize several schemes to get his hands on the Goldeneye Satellite, even completely outwitting Bond and nearly killing him on several occasions, all while intending on robbing the British bank and then using the Goldeneye to erase the records, also nearly collapsing western civilization. One of Bond's most personal adversaries, Alec Trevelyan conducts himself with pure charisma, able to get under Bond's skin like no other by knowing him better than anyone else.
- Skyfall: Once one of M's finest agents named Tiago Rodriguez, betrayed by her to the Chinese and tortured to the point of a bungled suicide that left him hideously disfigured, Raoul Silva escaped, joined SPECTRE under his new name and became a cyber-terrorist who plays the entirety of MI 6 perfectly. Using a series of terrorist attacks to lure out Bond, Silva proceeds to play mind games with him from their meetings, and allows his own capture so his encrypted laptop allows his men access to MI-6's systems. Escaping MI-6's custody, Silva hunts down M with the intention of achieving a mutual suicide with her, to end his pain with hers and secure his revenge against the woman he sees as a mother who betrayed him. One of Bond's most effective and brilliant adversaries, Silva even dies achieving almost everything he sets out to do, with M following him to death moments later.
- The Elenium: Martel is a renegade Pandion Knight, Dragon-in-Chief to Azash, archenemy of protagonist Sparhawk, and the primary planner behind everything the villains do. Having procured the poison that Primate Annias needed to incapacitate Queen Ehlana, Martel moves about Eosia, stirring up trouble in Rendor and Lamorkand in an effort to draw the Church Knights out of Chyrellos and make it easier for Annias to gain the Archprelacy by way of intimidation. When Sparhawk and his companions foil these plans and restore Ehlana to health, Martel convinces the Rendors to invade Arcium, then attacks Chyrellos with his own private army of mercenaries. Robbed of victory by way of divine intervention when the Child-Goddess Aphrael steps in and leads King Wargun's army to Chyrellos, Martel lures Sparhawk to Zemoch, so that Azash can deal with him, and steal the Bhelliom—the entire plot of the series, from the poisoning of Ehlana onward being revealed as part of a scheme to force Sparhawk to uncover Bhelliom and then take it from him. Out for his own profit first and foremost, Martel used Annias, Zemoch Emperor Otha, and even Azash, as means to his ends, hijacking all of their plans in order gain revenge on Sparhawk and empower himself.
- Gentleman Bastard: Luciano Anatolius, alias the Grey King, alias Capa Raza, used Locke Lamora and the other Gentleman Bastards as disposable pawns in his campaign against Capa Barsavi and the Camorri nobility, forcing Locke to impersonate him so that he might fake his own death, and then killing off most of the team with ease. With twenty-two years to plan out his revenge on Barsavi and the nobles for the death of his family, Anatolius leaves few details unattended to, killing off Barsavi's gang bosses and inserting his own men into leadership positions, hiding his Co-Dragons among Barsavi's personal bodyguard, and hypnotizing the chief of the Secret Police into bringing his hidden Wraithstone weapons into the Duke's ball. Successful at taking over the Barsavi organization and killing off Barsavi's entire family in the process, the newly minted Capa Raza comes within a hairsbreadth of taking out the whole of the Camorri nobility, before Locke and Jean manage to halt his rampage.
- Tolkien's Legendarium: The Silmarillion and The Children of Húrin bring us Glaurung, Father of Dragons, and Tolkein's most competent antagonist. Serving as Melkor's greatest field marshal, Glaurung broke the siege of Angband, and crushed the armies of Elves, Dwarves, and Men at the Fifth Battle, ushering in an era of dominance for Melkor's forces all across Middle-Earth. Chosen as the instrument of Melkor's curse against the Children of Hurin, Glaurung tricked Turin Turambar into allowing the city of Nargothrond to fall, then hypnotized Turin's sister Nienor into falling in love with Turin and becoming pregnant with his child. Slain by Turin in an ambush, Glaurung used his final breath to reveal the extent of his manipulations of Turin and Nienor both, resulting in their suicides as they contemplated the horror of what they had done. Victorious in death, Glaurung completed every part of his mission from Melkor, and brought complete ruination to the family of Hurin.
- Angel: Daniel Holtz was once a great force for good, a heroic vampire hunter whose family was destroyed by Angelus and Darla. Succumbing to vengeance, Holtz allows himself to be taken to 20th century LA where he builds an army of fanatics from those who have lost loved ones to vampires to use and manipulate, before focusing on how best to make Angel suffer. Holtz sees Angel's newborn son and manipulates Wesley into kidnapping the child before stealing the baby Connor away, intending to raise Connor himself far from Angel. When caught, Holtz elects to dive into the worst demon dimension with Connor, but survives and raises the boy there, later returning, seemingly at peace with Angel. Pulling off his final masterstroke, Holtz has himself murdered in a way to simulate a vampire attack, framing Angel to Connor so Connor will try to destroy Angel himself. Consumed by revenge and showing how far a true force for righteousness can fall, Holtz did more damage to Angel than even demons and gods have managed.
- Farscape: Once a nameless child born of a twisted breeding experiment by the Scarrans, Scorpius schemed his way to freedom and murdered his abusive caretaker Tauza. After finding out about the horrific circumstances of his birth via the rape of his mother by a Scarran soldier, Scorpius dedicated himself to destroying the Scarrans in retribution Becoming a top officer in the normally fiercely xenophobic Peacekeeper armada, Scorpius tries to hunt down the Wormhole technology in hero John Crichton's head, constantly manipulating others to his ends, using and betraying others in his way and destroying his enemies while the crew of Moya barely remains a step ahead of him, proving himself the single most brilliant and dangerous enemy John has ever faced who will stop at nothing in pursuit of his goals to destroy the Scarrans.
- Hannibal: Hannibal Lecter himself maintains a sense of charm and genteelness that is unmatched in other portrayals, despite being a cannibalistic Serial Killer. Hannibal delights in nothing more than 'winding others up to watch them go' and manipulates events, gaslighting people and driving them to insanity or horrible deeds simply to watch what will unfold. Manipulating the FBI perfectly, especially Will Graham who Hannibal fixates on, he manages to elude suspicion for a frighteningly long time, even triggering one captured FBI agent with a trigger to shoot Dr. Chilton who he has a special contempt for. Hannibal also manipulates the dysfunctional Verger siblings until their relationship is at a bloody head before he mutilates and paralyzes the sadistic Mason Verger solely due to dislike of him. Hannibal does rouse himself to save the life of Will from a vengeful Mason later, and in the series finale proves his care for Will and desire for them to become a murderous couple when he rescues Will from the Red Dragon serial killer. A killer with a god complex and Satanic Archetype who views the world as full of food or toys for him, Hannibal repeatedly demonstrates his joy in manipulating others.
- Rome: Gaius Julius Caesar conquers the entire land of Gaul, while masterfully manipulating the Roman senate into declaring him a criminal to give him an excuse to march on Rome, scattering the Senate and seizing ultimate power while acting humble to continue winning the love of the populace. Caesar continues a series of masterful political maneuvers to entrench himself while maintaining the loyalty of his soldiers and closest allies, even rewarding a veteran for defying his explicit orders when the man's actions win favor with the crowd, securing himself a trusted bodyguard in the process. In almost every moment, Caesar continues to show how he is the true master of Rome and is seen as almost divine even before his assassination.
- Supergirl: Season 2's Alex gives us Rick Malverne, a former classmate of the Danvers sisters who bored witness to Kara surviving a horrific accident and using her powers to save people. Remembering this, Rick pieces together her past identity once Kara publicly reveals herself as "Supergirl" to National City. Taking the opportunity to free his criminal father from prison, Rick kidnaps Alex and places her in a glass cage, located in a building laced with lead to deter Kara, while slowly filling it with water. Giving Kara and her friends 36 hours to either free his father or watch Alex drown. After being apprehended, Rick remains calm and sees through J'onn's attempt to shape-shift into his father, failing to trick Rick. Even when his plan is foiled when his father reveals the location of his trap, Rick graciously congratulates Alex for surviving his trap and accepts his imprisonment without malice.
- Forgotten Realms:
- Asmodeus, the Lord of the Nine Hells, is the Wicked Cultured, Affably Evil, handsome and brilliant Archdevil who, ever since his fall from heaven, has been running a grand chess game that few can even begin to understand. Asmodeus knows every plot against him by the other archdevils and delights in thwarting or subverting them to his own benefit while making his own plots that can take centuries or even millennia to come to fruition in ways that benefit him. At one point, Asmodeus was even deposed from his throne in Nessus, only to later reveal it was simply a ruse to root out potential traitors. Since becoming a god, Asmodeus has only increased his power and effectiveness with some fearing he is perhaps the greatest threat to all the forces of good in existence.
- Jarlaxle Baenre, third son of Yvonnel Baenre, survived his birth and sacrifice against all odds, growing into a talented mercenary leader who thrives off the chaos of Menzoberranzan. Constantly hiring out his forces, the Bregan D'Aerthe while playing multiple sides in any conflict, Jarlaxle later goes to the surface, manages to win over nearly everyone he comes across and even uses an attempted coup from his underlings as a way to buy himself a vacation, eliminating the worst traitors and leaving the one Drow he can trust in charge of the group before manipulating powerful kingdoms, ancient dragons and monsters into doing what benefits him most. Jarlaxle is so successful and talented at his games that there are those who wonder if he is actually blessed by the normally virulently misandrist Lolth as a chosen of chaos.
- Pathfinder:
- Admiral Druvalia Thrune is the Big Bad of the Skull & Shackles Adventure Path, The Woman Behind the Man to Captain Barnabas Harrigan, and the source, directly or indirectly, of all the misery experienced by the player characters. Determined to escape the accusation that her career has been advanced by nepotism alone, Druvalia uses her catspaw, Harrigan to undermine the Shackles' defenses, while her great-uncle's vast wealth enables her to finance a private armada, which her deal with the archdevil Geryon enables her to sail through the Eye of Abendego and strike at the Hurricane King's domains. With only the players even aware that her invasion is about to take place, and the support of one of the rulers of Hell, Druvalia seems to hold a winning hand, and if the PCs do not bring their best game, she is easily capable of running the table and reducing the Shackles to a Chelish colony.
- General Azaersi of the Ironfang Invasion Adventure Path is a brilliant and overambitious hobgoblin general who dreams of building a new homeland for her people atop the bickering human nations of Nirmathas and Molthune. Recruiting dozens of Molthune's monstrous mercenary regiments to her service, securing the alliance of the dark naga Zanathura, the greater barghest Azlowe, and the legendary dragonslayer Kraelos, and rallying hobgoblins from across the continent and beyond, Azaersi builds her Ironfang Legion into one of the deadliest fighting forces in Avistan, and with the aid of a powerful magical artifact, is able to deploy them wherever she sees fit. Rendered all but invincible in the field, Azaersi overruns most of Nirmathas and a large part of Molthune, with the players the only ones who are able to even check her. Unable to best her army in the field, the PCs will likely have to resort to a decapitation strike to remove Azaersi from the head of the Legion—unless they can present her with evidence of treachery from her comrades, in which case, much to their surprise, they may find themselves negotiating a reasonable peace with the hobgoblin generalissimo.
- Shin Megami Tensei: Has produced many devilishly smart villains:
- Mainline series:
- Shin Megami Tensei III Nocturne: Lucifer orchestrates events to ensure The Protagonist becomes the commander of his demon army. Turning him into a Demifiend after the Conception, Lucifer manipulates the protagonist into investigating the Amala Labyrinth, hoping to make him fight other powerful Friends to test his strength before sending a feared demon hunter after them. If the Deminfiend chooses to break the cycle of the Conception, Lucifer congratulates him, before testing his power in a personal battle. When the Demifiend survives the fight, Lucifer graciously accepts him as the commander of his demon army and rejoices at the thought of beginning the war with what he calls the "Real Enemy". Ever gracious, if the Demifiend chooses any other route than breaking the cycle, Lucifer discretely steps aside and leaves the story, out of respect for his freewill. Manipulative to the core yet gracious and stylish, Lucifer proves himself to be one of the franchise's most dangerous and intelligent plotters.
- Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse: Although in the Peace route Stephen, the creator of the Demon Summoning Program, is a sympathetic ally to The Protagonist, he shows more ruthlessness in the Massacre route. Siding with Nanashi and Dagda, Stephen aids them with their plan to destroy the universe and create a new one, without reincarnating the demons in the new world. Manipulating humans to join together in a Last Stand against Nanashi, knowing they would be slaughtered, Stephen admits he did this to test his own determination to his goal. Never losing his polite, friendly demeanour, Stephen warns Nanashi to avoid making the same mistakes as the other Gods before leaving, fascinated with the possibility of a world where humanity rules everything.
- Spinoffs:
- Persona: SEBEC Mikage-cho branch head Takahisa Kandori creates the DEVA system intending to use it to become God. When Kandori accidentally ends of manifesting Maki Sonomura's mind into the entire town of Mikage-cho, he manipulates Aki, the manifestation of Maki rage, into trusting him and using Aki to reach his goal of becoming God. Getting resurrected to help with the plans of Nyarlathotep in the sequel, Kandori becomes one of the highest ranking members of the New World Order despite his lack of interest in advancement. When confronted by the heroes, Kandori allows himself to be beaten so that he may "experience" death, graciously accepting his fate. A mere human who managed to become a God because of his own intelligence, Kandori stands out as a true genius in the Persona franchise and is easily one of its most diabolical.
- Devil Survivor: Naoya is The Protagonist's cousin, the mastermind behind the story and the biblical Cain. Creating the Demon Summoning Program, Naoya shares it with the Shomonkai, knowing they will use it to break the barrier between worlds and causing a divine crises. Keeping himself secure during the demonic invasion of Tokyo, Naoya allows his cousin free choice though tries to convince him to become the King of Bel. Having prepared himself for multiple scenarios and never losing his sarcastic, calm demeanour even in the the catastrophe of God’s Ordeal, Naoya manages to win in one way or another in almost all routes, only truly being defeated if his cousin sides with God and the angels.
- Mainline series:
- King Lear: Edmund of Gloucester, the literal bastard son of the Duke of Gloucester, executes a plan to consolidate power and play even his own family as pawns while vowing to make the gods themselves "stand up for bastards." A ruthless but deeply charismatic schemer who plays everyone for his own benefit, Edmund frames his brother for treason and convinces him to flee into exile while manipulating his father into granting him Edgar's legitimate birthright, before exposing Gloucester's sympathy for King Lear and handing him off to the Duke of Cornwall. As the Duke of Gloucester, Edmund schemes for the throne of Britain itself and seduces Lear's own ambitious daughters to further his own power. Even on his deathbed, Edmund finally finds the grace to defy his own bastardly nature and rescinds the order he had previously given to execute Lear and Cordelia—a sentiment which, tragically, is too late.
Ambar, I messaged you how I felt the brackets bit with Char in Ky's entry was a little awkward so I reworded it. As I said, please let me know if you're okay with how I've done it.
edited 3rd Jun '18 7:55:46 AM by 43110
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
To all the previous candidates.
What did i miss?
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
While you all are busy discussing those examples. I did two write-ups, Guin had more than enought votes and Stephen barely have them (if someone have more votes, please do), but he had the mininum necessary.
edited 2nd Jun '18 3:13:22 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my country