During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. " to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
to everyone listed here especially Blue Jones
Also looking at that sentence I meant to add that Pactyas tricks their loved ones into attacking the Eagle Bearer making them believe that she killed them.
Here's a reverse version (the loved ones are in bold):
Legacy of the First Blade DLC: Pactyas the Huntsman leads the Order of Hunters to pursue Darius, killing his wife and children, with only one surviving. Tracking Darius and his remaining child in Makedonia, Pactyas would massacre numerous villages there, including ordering one's water supply poisoned, and would brainwash wolves to attack people in his efforts to lure Darius out of hiding and kill those Pactyas deems "tainted". Learning about the Eagle Bearer's whereabouts in Makedonia, Pactyas would gather all the people he killed to mutilate and hang to display and trick their loved ones into attacking the Eagle Bearer; Should the Eagle Bearer refuse to kill them Pactyas would kill them himself. Battling the Eagle Bearer, Pactyas would use psychological torment to break them before attempting to kill them.
Gustav and sure to blue Jones upon thinking it over.
@aww: The header of the presidents vampire should have a semi colon at the end.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Mir: Fixed.
G: Let's use this:
- Legacy of the First Blade DLC: Pactyas the Huntsman leads the Order of Hunters to pursue Darius, killing his wife and children, with only one surviving. Tracking Darius and his remaining child in Makedonia, Pactyas would massacre numerous villages there, including ordering one's water supply poisoned, and would brainwash wolves to attack people in his efforts to lure Darius out of hiding and kill those Pactyas deems "tainted". Learning about the Eagle Bearer's whereabouts in Makedonia, Pactyas would gather all the people he mutilated and killed, displaying the corpses hanging from a tree to trick their loved ones into attacking the Eagle Bearer; should the Eagle Bearer refuse to kill said innocent villagers, Pactyas would kill them himself. Battling the Eagle Bearer, Pactyas would use psychological torment to break them before attempting to kill them.
Would it be worth it to change 64!Andross' write up to go into more specifics on his actions in Adventures? Within the game he's implied to have destroyed Krystal's home planet, traps her in a state of constant pain, and helps Scales in his evil plans before killing him.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheonto everyone I missed
Listen to my podcastWhat do you guys think of this quote from the manga version of Bellum possessing Lineback on The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass?
I have an interesting question, can a somewhat less proactive villain count?
In the Archie TMNT comic series, there was a villain called Craniac who harvests brains in a dark future where the world is ruined by climate change. There is a comet heading towards Earth, Craniac knows this and does nothing to stop it. Does more proactive mass murderers like Null and Krang over shadow him?
Murder by inaction? I'd say he could PROBABLY count.
Sure to the quote.
Edited by ACW on Jul 28th 2019 at 6:15:07 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsTraquer, Jette, Songi, Benjamin, Little Gustave
@ ACW, should I EP Craniac then? I think there are many TMNT monsters whom we have not looked at. VVV is doing a pretty good job uncovering obscure TMNT baddies.
Yes to the quote.
heck with VVV first to see if it's ok but otherwise I'd say go for it.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheonWhy..... I don't think he's doing archie TMMT anyway
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."to Benjamin and Little Gustave.
Doom Patrol EP one
Who is he
Kay's unnamed father was an abusive figure that is heavily implied to have repeatedly raped her as a child. This breaks her minds in many different alters, one of which outright commits suicide over the stress that this trauma has caused on Kay. The alters in general are well meaning but their protective nature means that Kay can no longer lead a normal life.
Crazy Jane, the dominant of Kay's alters, has gone through hell and back, but an incident at the retirement house of the Old Doom Patrol triggers her trauma about her father, so she effectively decides to commit suicide by going to the well. There, she meets an alter based on him: a horrible monster that is still doing creepy advances towards her and attacks her friend Cliff, intending to kill him and possibly rape her.
After reliving a memory of Kay as a child, Jane goes with her father in Kay's place, being molested on her stead. After that she gains the courage to stand up to him, proclaiming that she is no longer afraid of him. The daddy personality lets Cliff go and is unmade, albeit with the promise that he still lurks about in the Underground.
Heinous Standard
Pedophile who is the source of most of the psychological misery Crazy Jane goes through, up to considering suicide. I think he is worse than the pedo in Titans if nothing else.
Mitigating Qualities
None.
Veredct
???
Edited by Keshali on Jul 28th 2019 at 3:49:21 AM
Leaning yes to the above and Gustave.
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.EDIT: Nevermind, I'm abstaining. Clearly I wasn't paying attention to the show enough. Sorry folks.
Edited by chasemaddigan on Jul 28th 2019 at 7:17:56 AM
to Gustave and the others.
He raped his daughter for years instead of one incidence of it. Unless there are some deep implications, I might say "yes," but it looked like Lighty had reserved that one.
Edited by AustinDR on Jul 28th 2019 at 5:52:32 AM
those I missed.
Things are really about to get Fun around hereto the candidates I missed.
Awhile back, I proposed a quote in the CM Quotes Cleanup thread in Short-Term Projects but that thread has been very inactive. Do any of you mind if I propose it here?
The Doom Patrol one...I'd had it reserved previously...honestly, I'm not sure. I don't think we get a clear enough picture, horrible as he is...though I do have one another tonight..and soon, I may have one from an adventure novel from 1885
What's the work?
Agneepath was proposed here by Sanfranman some time ago, from 2012....me? I have the original 1990 version. Vijay is a young man living in a village with his father, the local teacher and a man of wisdom and virtue. Kancha Cheena is a wicked gangster who views the teacher as...in the way. So let's discuss our villain, the evil Kancha Cheena.
Who is Kancha Cheena?
Played by Danny Dengzonpa, Kancha Cheena is a mustachioed man with slicked back hair, shades, and a sharp white suit. A ruthless gangster and murderer who lets nothing stand in his way, Kancha wishes to use the village as a center to run his heroin. He frames the teacher, Vijay's father, as a hypocrite going to a brothel and ends up having him savagely lynched by the townspeople, killed in front of Vijay. Vijay and his family escape, but end up in poverty.
Vijay, abandoning his father's teachings, specifically that of the 'Agneepath,' or 'Path of Fire,' enters into a life of crime as a boy and becomes a gangster who works under Kancha's rivals. Little by little, Kancha supplants them and destroys them, ending up speaking with Kancha himself and worms his way into the man's good graces. Kancha ends up trusting Vijay, not recognizing him for who he is.
Now, things come to a head as Vijay tries to embrace the virtuous path his father spoke of. Things, shall we say, escalate...Vijay tries to put Kancha away, and win the support of the townspeople but Kancha has the witnesses they're going to use slaughtered, and when Vijay is conducting a celebration, sends his man to slaughter and brutalize people.
Vijay, realizing that only violence can stop Kancha, heads to confront the evil gangster who has his family taken hostage, with intent to kill...when Vijay arrives, Kancha callously guns down an old friend of his in front of him....before he detonates a bomb to blow up the houses in the town, not caring if anyone is still there or not (most are thankfully evacuated).
Vijay and friends lead the fight, ending as Vijay faces off with Kancha Cheena himself and despite being mortally wounded, he overcomes Kancha and throws him into the fire, Kancha screaming as he burns to death, Vijay dying saving his loved ones, embracing his sainted father's teachings at the end.
Heinous standard?
Lots of murder and cruelty. Guy is a bastard. Not as bad as Sanjay Dutt's portrayal in 2012 it must be said, but still nasty.
Mitigating Qualities?
Nothing. Kancha is less wild, savage and monstrous than Dutt's interpretation, being more a cold, greedy businessman out to make money, but he has some sadism along way. He's devoid of any positive emotion whatsoever, with nothing redeeming whatsoever. He lacks the viciousness of, say, Gabbar Singh from the classic Sholay, but he's still a damn nasty baddie.
conclusion?
Winner.
Sure to Kancha and the candidates I missed
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
She-Ra (UK Comics, London Editions magazine):
Edited by ACW on Aug 2nd 2019 at 11:07:57 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts