Hindsight Cleanup

I'd rather just trash it all as it just seems like ridiculous paranoia and shoehorning to me, but okay.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Feb 14th 2021 at 7:10:29 AM

How are the Hindsight entries paranoia? The first entry isn't speculative or anything, as it's just pointing out that a certain scene comes across as harsher knowing now the person treated as a threat was, indeed, an abuser at the time. That's the audience reaction. It also gives a citation of the actors themselves having discomfort, which isn't paranoia either, just adding that the actors themselves weren't quite comfortable with him. Like I said, only the Heartwarming stuff seems speculative about what happened.

Exactly. Cutting an entry with citations proving multiple people see this connection due to the personal belief that it doesn't fit is far more counterproductive to the mission of Audience Reactions than leaving the entry up.

Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 14th 2021 at 6:17:36 AM

The citations also prove that Multiple people believe in it as well making it more trustworthy honestly.

Edited by miraculous on Feb 14th 2021 at 3:15:15 AM

Bringing up the following examples from That Mitchell and Webb Look:

• "Funny Aneurysm" Moment:
  • The sketch "Angel Summoner and BMX Bandit", which is about a duo of superheroes with vastly different power levels and the tension this creates. Though one can say the duo's contrasting popularity was frequently played with throughout the show with both actors acknowledging this, this sketch becomes a rather apt metaphor for Mitchell (Angel Summoner) and Webb's (BMX Bandit) later careers following the show's run.
  BMX Bandit: Your ability to summon a horde of celestial superbeings at will is making my BMX skills a bit...redundant.
  • The Orphaned Punchline about Jimmy Savile receiving three life sentences. "You think you know a guy, and then he does something like that..." Although, considering that it was allegedly an open secret at The BBC, it may simply have been a deliberate (if slightly sick) In-Joke that "got out".
• Harsher in Hindsight:
  • One of the last sketches in the show had Mitchell claiming that Peep Show will end soon, in which it eventually did in 2015.
  • The Quiz Broadcast scarily resembles the UK government's press briefings in the 2020 coronavirus pandemic.
    • On top of that, the web exclusive sketch "After the Event" is eerily prescient of people hoarding massive quantities of toilet paper during the pandemic.
  • Robert Webb's character telling a supervillain to "go back to Planet Tranny" in a Captain Todger sketch looks even worse after Webb himself said he was a "gender-critical feminist" and sided with Graham Linehan in his spat with trans charity Mermaids.
• Heartwarming in Hindsight: The "David Mitchell (Actor)'s wife" scene, which plays on his "confirmed bachelor" image, is rather touching now that he actually is married.
• Hilarious in Hindsight:
  • In one episode from Series 1, there's a sketch where Mitchell and Webb are getting prepared for the "chicken dance" in the hope to win a BAFTA. Shortly after when the series finished airing, the show won a BAFTA in 2007 in the "Best Comedy" category.
  • One sketch had David dreaming about being married to actress Keeley Hawes - in 2013, he starred in the BBC2 series Ambassadors, with Keeley playing his character's wife.
  • The "Dead British Actors" sketch (in which two feuding actors play Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson, by alternating roles each night) is hilarious now given Danny Boyle's stage production of Frankenstein has the same setup between Victor and the Creature. Doubly hilarious considering that the actors involved (Benedict Cumberbatch and Jonny Lee Miller) both went on to star in Dueling Shows in which they played Holmes.
  • "The Quiz Broadcast" has a Running Gag of post-apocalyptic survivors trying at all costs to avoid remembering "the event" becomes downright hilarious in the wake of the failed American sci-fi drama The Event, which had a marketing campaign that revolved entirely around obfuscating what the titular event is, and was also a massive disaster.
  • The villain in the Casino Royale (2006) spoof doesn't look much like Le Chiffre, but he does resemble later Bond villain Silva.
  • BMX Bandit now has an anime counterpart, if anything even more Overshadowed by Awesome, in Licenseless Rider.
  • In the radio version, Olivia Colman plays Queen Elizabeth II in a sketch involving the Queen getting ridiculously excited over a bunch of D-grade acts being contracted to play the Royal Variety Performance. In 2017, it was announced that the role of Elizabeth II in seasons three and four of The Crown (2016) was going to be played by... Olivia Colman.
  • "Numberwang" becomes this if you know how cryptocurrency mining works.
  • One "Sir Digby Chicken Caesar" sketch had a scene in which a little girl knights Sir Digby in the beach. Nine years later, Nigel Farage had a similar experience.

Respectively:
Aneurysms:

• I'm not familiar with the show, so I have no comment on this one
• Didn't Saville die before people found out he was evil?

• How exactly is this harsher?
• COVID shoehorn
  • The toilet paper thing is a dead meme, too
• This is probably valid

• Could be valid, but I'm not an expert on Heartwarming things

• Could be valid
• Actor garbage
• Actor garbage
• Complaining
• Actor garbage
• Fan Myopia
• Can't tell if this is actor garbage or a valid entry
• Weblinks Are Not Examples
• There's literally a pothole to Life Imitates Art at the end, move it there.

Re: Savile, the FAM is tied to his conduct, not specifically the life sentences from the sketch. The fact that he died before his misdeeds were revealed is irrelevant.

Well, in that case, it might be valid, assuming the quote was made before Saville died (Otherwise, I don't understand how someone can serve time in prison if they're dead). Like I said, I'm not familiar with the show, so I can't say for sure.

Singling out a few Harsher in Hindsight entries on The Mysterious Mr. Enter that seem problematic.

• Him placing The Wacky World of Tex Avery on the Number 1 spot in "Top 10 Worst Cartoons of the 1990's" becomes more poignant when one considers the similar circumstances behind the planned SpongeBob SquarePants spin-off Kamp Koral, which he touched upon as well. Are the circumstances really that outstandingly similar? Deceased artists' properties get revived all the time.
• In his BoJack Horseman review, Enter believes that he and BoJack are Not So Different and notes how his internet fame may not last for much longer. As of 2020, Enter's prediction seems to have come true as his increasingly negative attitude, coupled with spouting more controversial views about the COVID-19 pandemic, seems to have alienated many of his former friends and fans. I worry this might be too controversial. Plus, BoJack's flaws don't come from being a right-wing anti-masker.
• For fans of his Admirable Animation reviews, during a livestream in July 2020, Mr. Enter announced he would be ending Admirable Animations because he no longer enjoyed making them. If it singled out a specific moment where he described how Admirable Animations was cathartic for him, that might count, but this is just "series mortality."

Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 14th 2021 at 10:18:43 AM

Those could be easy cuts; Kamp Koral hasn't come out yet, so there's no way to know if it's any similar to The Wacky World of Tex Avery; the second might be a ROCEJ violation, and the third has literally nothing in hindsight.
Anyway,

• Hilarious in Hindsight:
  • "Rockstar" uses the lyrics "I'm gonna sing those songs that offend the censors". When the song was released as a single, it ended up getting censored. I don't know if the connection is strong enough.
  • The band lambasted Guitar Hero, which, at least in their opinions, detracted people from learning real instruments. Two years later, their songs are on Rock Band. Even more amusingly, they ended up appearing on Guitar Hero anyway. I don't think there's enough context here. I know there was a Nickelback song on Warriors of Rock (the last GH game), but I don't know if it's true that the band actually didn't like the games. Also, Rock Band is (technically) a completely different series.
  • Jokes about people hating on Canada because of Nickelback become funny (and outdated) when you realize there is a Canadian musician far, far more hated than them. It's gotten more of a cumulative effect over time; people hate on Canada due to giving the rest of the world Bieber, Nickelback, Avril Lavigne, Céline Dion, Carly Rae Jepsen, Drake, Three Days Grace, Shawn Mendes, etc. On the other hand, Canada also gave us great artists like Arcade Fire, Rush, Metric, The Tragically Hip, Devin Townsend,^note And his former band Strapping Young Lad. Leonard Cohen, Alanis Morissette, Voivod, Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, Grimes, heck, even Carly Rae Jepsen started to be more respected as a musician! But they're very much overshadowed by the ones people hate. Extremely rambly, and probably just complaining about people not liking Canadian music. And IIRC, most of the hate around Beiber died down years ago.

Am I okay to cut all of these?

Reposting from the previous page:

Bringing up the following examples from Malcolm in the Middle:

• "Funny Aneurysm" Moment:
  • Commandant Spengler's multiple amputations are continually played for laughs. His actor Daniel von Bargen would later lose a leg to diabetes and attempted suicide when it looked like he might lose the other one.
  • In "Home Alone 4", Malcolm suffers a head injury that's severe enough to require stitches and at one point, he jokes to the audience that he might not remember what happened. Frankie Muniz suffered a mini-stroke in his late twenties that caused him to lose several memories, including that of his time on this show.
• Harsher in Hindsight:
  • The man who tried to frame Hal for corporate espionage feared he was dying of cancer and wanted to clear his conscience, only to find out that he wasn't later. Paul Gleeson, who played him, died of cancer a year and a half later.
  • In the finale, Malcolm's parents strong-arm him into turning down a six-figure job right out of high school, forcing him to work through college (since they blew a $10,000 college grant that was meant for him), so he'll appreciate the value of hard work. A couple of years after the finale, the economy tanked and not only did college become more expensive that's only affordable with loans that take years to pay off and good-paying jobs hard to get, but many recent grads often find themselves working in low-paying jobs despite having a degree, so Hal and Lois' actions look incredibly stupid and selfish. Parents these days would be overjoyed not having to worry about putting their kids through college.
• Hilarious in Hindsight:
  • An early episode is titled "Home Alone 4"—which would become a real direct-to-DVD movie.
  • One has to wonder if Breaking Bad show creator Vince Gilligan looked to this show for inspiration, as this show has a lot of scenes and episode premises that become hilarious and/or eerie once you learn that the Bryan Cranston who plays Bumbling Dad Hal is the same one who plays morally gray, cancer-stricken chemistry teacher-turned-meth dealer, Walter White:
    • In "Malcolm Visits College," Reese pretends to be a drug dealer in order to get the attention of a well-known (and cute) narc at school, culminating in Hal getting busted for possession of drugs, complete with a baby at the table, and Reese berating him for not telling him.
    • The episode "Reese's Party" centers on one of Francis' hoodlum friends breaking in and making crystal meth in the family's backyard (sadly, Hal is away with Lois at a bed and breakfast).
    • In another episode, Hal worries that he may have cancer and tries to hide it from his sons ^note (until he gets a call saying that the lump is benign), which is slightly better morally than making meth with a high school drop-out to pay for the hospital bills and make sure his family has something to live on when he dies.
    • In "Jessica Stays Over," Hal obsesses over killing a bee. The Breaking Bad episode "Fly" was also about a Bryan Cranston character obsessing over killing a bug (in this case, it's a fly).
    • Similar to the above, is an episode where Hal is obsessed with gassing a colony of ants that have moved into the house. That episode, and the Breaking Bad episode both show a POV shot from the insect in question.
    • Another episode had him ask Malcolm (in a dark, serious tone) if he had what it took to do an upcoming task. When Malcolm responded yes, Hal, now cheerful, remarks "Great! We'll start tomorrow!" The conversation vaguely resembles the interactions between Walt and Jesse in Breaking Bad's first season, particularly the "Buy the RV, we start tomorrow" scene.
    • In "Reese vs. Stevie," a flashback of how he let his sons off the hook for one bad thing they did shows a bald Hal next to a burnt and smoking chemistry set. That moment doesn't get any more obvious in hindsight than this.
    • One episode features a police officer named Hank, exactly like Walt's brother-in-law DEA Agent Hank Schrader.
    • And then there's the time Hal paid two planes to skywrite a heart in the air for Lois' anniversary, only to have them crash mid-air. Flash-forward to Breaking Bad's second season finale...
    • On the episode "Malcolm Babysits," there's a scene where Hal is outside of a trailer in his underwear, which is how we first meet Walter White in the very first episode of Breaking Bad.
    • (mixed with What Could Have Been): Aaron Paul (who played Jesse Pinkman on Breaking Bad) auditioned to play Francis, but lost out to Christopher Masterson. If Aaron Paul did get the role of Francis, Breaking Bad could have been mistaken for a Darker and Edgier Malcolm in the Middle spin-off.
    • Hal's father is named Walter.
  • In the episode "Secret Boyfriend," Vicki (Malcolm's secret girlfriend) is dubbed "cheerleader scum" by Jessica. Pretty funny, considering that Jessica is played by Hayden Panettiere, who the following year would become the cheerleader, on Heroes.
  • One episode made a Godzilla parody by having Lois trash a city made of Legos. Come 2014, there would be a remake of Godzilla with Bryan Cranston in it.
  • One episode has a Jerkass comic book shop owner torment Hal by making up a superhero called "Mister Incredible".
  • For the score, They Might Be Giants wrote a willfully godawful pastiche of children's music. It's used as an interrogation device in "Red Dress." All the while, the band was recording an album of actual children's music, which was so well-recieved that they managed a career in it.
  • Hal having a nightmare where he's a dog in the pound in Baby: Part 2, becomes funnier when Bryan Cranston would go on to voice another dog many years later.
  • One of Dewey's friends is a mentally disturbed kid play by Cameron Monaghan. Monaghan would later appear in another sitcom about a dysfunctional family who constantly faces hardship. Then he would be cast as Ax-Crazy serial killer Jerome Valeska, and later his twin brother Jeremiah (a.k.a. The Joker), on Gotham.

This is on Leave It to Beaver:

Harsher in Hindsight: The show mined a lot of humor from the fact that Ward and some of Beaver's friends had parents that disciplined them with physical abuse. Something that was a lot more common during that era.

Beaver: Larry gets a quarter for just being quiet when his dad gets home.
Ward: Well, that's not the way my father kept me quiet.
Beaver: Oh, yeah. You had a hittin' father, didn't you?

• Season 3's "Teacher Comes to Dinner" has an off-hand remark where Larry Mondello, noting this is the first time he or any of Beaver's other friends have seen their teacher Miss Landers outside a classroom about things she might do while not on the clock, including smoking. Sue Randall, who played Miss Landers, was a heavy smoker in real life, which contributed to her death from lung cancer in 1984 at the age of only 49.

The first one is just Values Dissonance. I think the second entry is missing a word or something in its first sentence, but I think "very briefly talking about somebody smoking when they eventually died of lung cancer" is too flimsy.

Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 15th 2021 at 12:50:47 PM

Move the first to Values Dissonance and cut the second, I'd say.

EDIT: Oh great, someone else answered while I was writing my answer.

Edited by PhantomDusclops92 on Feb 15th 2021 at 6:52:01 PM

That is what is known as a ninja post.

From YMMV.Marilyn Manson. Nothing about the recent controversy, thankfully, but there's still some pretty contentious stuff here.

• Harsher in Hindsight:
  • Having a song called "Pistol Whipped" after he nearly got crushed to death by a stage prop shaped like 2 handguns in September 2017.
  • The last time the band got together with Gidget Gein was to collaborate in the video for "(s)AINT", which featured a ton of self-abuse and drug use. Five years later, he was dead of a heroin overdose.
  • The Concept Album and mostly unreleased book Holy Wood (In The Shadow Of The Valley of Death) is about a future dystopia parody of America where the populace worships violence and celebrity, is numb to mass murders like school shootings (but the media is more than happy to profit off of it) and is ruled over by an idiot celebrity despot who, in the one chapter of the book released, has creepy incestuous overtones with his daughter. All of those would come true for the real America.

• Is "Pistol Whipped" about Manson getting killed by guns, or is the title metaphorical or what? That'd probably affect how legit it is.
• I think it could fit since it's not just actor mortality but it's connected to the performer glorifying the thing that killed them.
• Big ROCEJ violation there. Not naming the man doesn't allow them a free pass.

I'm pretty certain that the title of "Pistol Whipped" is metaphorical (it's about an abusive relationship, which could be harsher for a different reason, but I don't want to jump to conclusions)

Either way, yeah the last one has to go.

I found this on Robin Hood:

• Hmm, for new Disney fans, Robin Hood looks a bit familiar.

The "familiar" character is referring to Nick Wilde, but I don't think it really counts. While they are both Foxes that break the law and wear green, the two are otherwise very different, with Robin being a thief that steals from the rich and gives to the poor and Nick being a con-artist with a very cynical outlook on life. Plus, there is another example with Popular with Furries that said that the creators said Nick was based on Robin Hood, though I'm not sure if that's a valid claim.

Anddrix@ On the first Harsher, i think it fits since it does deal with similar circumstances.

Foxes being thieves is a common trope; that's all they have in common.

Plus of course they look similar - Disney draws most of its animals in very similar art styles.

From VideoGame.Among Us:

• Hilarious in Hindsight:
  • Cigars Of The Pharaoh readers who play this game will realise that Hergé managed to perfectly capture the mood of this game in this little sequence where Tintin overpowers all the senior members of a conspiracy by trickery while everyone's identity was concealed by their hoods and robes, and he did it decades before the game was ever designed.
  • The parody web animation StarCrafts chibi-fied the Terran Marines from StarCraft into a design that looks amusingly just like the Crewmates of Among Us. To add to the hilarity, there's even an episode where a Changeling (a shape-shifting Zerg unit) uses a vent to enter and exit the Terran base and gets the Terran Units to accidentally kill one of their own. It's now come full circle with a Carbots Among Us short.

Those are both examples for the respective works, not Among Us.

This was just added to Avengers: Endgame:

• Harsher in Hindsight: T'Challa being revived in 2023 becomes a cruel irony now that Chadwick Boseman didn't survive 2020.

Actor mortality; nuke it.