Sandbox / Poes Wick Check

OP written by: mathfreak231

Category: Actually YMMV

Summary: Poe's Law describes the phenomenon of parody/satire being indistinguishable from sufficient extremism. This is an Audience Reaction, so only in-universe examples or invocations should be listed on main pages. The on-page examples are already separated into IU and OOU.

Question for wick check: Are there many wicks that are opinion-based or audience reactions?

Methodology: Only work page entries and potholes in trope examples were considered. Anything already YMMV, Trivia, or Real Life was not considered, though the latter two categories should also be cleaned of opinion-based potholes. 50 wicks were checked.

Findings: 23/50 wicks were audience reactions being noted on the main page. The page also proves to be a pothole magnet in natter, with 12/50 wicks being a "we can never tell if this is serious" or "jsyk this is/isn't actually parody" comment. Only 13/50 properly described the phenomenon In-Universe.

Properly In-Universe (examples and potholes) (13/50)

• Webcomic.Sweet Bro And Hella Jeff: An in-universe example: in Homestuck, it's described as "a webcomic ironically maintained through a satirical cipher" with "legions of devoted fans, most of whom are totally convinced" of Dave's sockpuppet persona's sincerity.
• WebVideo.Retsupurae: The guys have a little trouble with this sometimes. For instance, in The Marios they mistake a troll for an actual moron. They decide to start pre-screening videos beforehand after realizing they'd been fooled. In Amnesia: The Dork's Descent, Diabetus and slowbeef argue about whether or not the LPer's hysterical terror is staged - Diabetus is positive that it is, while slowbeef merely hopes so. The fact that the LPer in question, Jenomorph, favorited the video just hours after it was uploaded may support that theory.
• WebVideo.Chadtronic: He encounters several bizarre articles about the supposed evils of Fortnite, one of them claims that a bunch of women are petitioning to get the game banned in the UK because their boyfriends are "being brainwashed" into playing it in favor of their girlfriends. Considering how outlandish many of the articles on the game have been so far, he can't tell if it's a satirical article or not.
• Podcast.Cox N Crendor: Jesse discusses an epiphany he had watching next episode trailers for Hell's Kitchen, realizing that they were so blatantly false compared to the episodes themselves that he's not entirely certain whether they're serious and lying or meant to spoof trailers of that nature.
• Literature.Author Author 1964: Graham claims the first story was intended as a biting satire of detective fiction, but the public didn't realise that.
• Recap.Phineas And Ferb The Secret Of Success: Lawrence mistakes Doofenshmirtz's telethon for a work of satire.
• SouthPark.Tropes K To Q: Meta-example: Parker and Stone's reaction upon discovering Wing was that it was either a super-sweet joke or a super-sweet not-joke.
• Artistic License – Religion: The Chick Tracts often do this to any religious ideology besides Jack Chick's own version of Christian fundamentalism (which is rather extreme, even for normal fundamentalism). When he does his research, it is usually from unreliable or discredited sources — sometimes even his own version of Christian fundamentalism. As a result, not everyone is convinced his works aren't an elaborate parody. It helps that he is so cryptic a person that absolutely nothing is known about him. Wikipedia even suggests that "Jack Chick" might have been the "pen name for an unnamed author or authors". Examples of Artistic License — Religious Studies from Chick Tracts include: Freemasons worship Baphomet. Putting aside that nobody has ever worshiped Baphomet ^note Baphomet is actually a phony pagan god that was invented as an excuse to prosecute the Knights Templar for devil worship. Some occultists used Baphomet as a symbolic representation (of God himself in most cases) but never worshiped it as an actual god. The name "Baphomet" does probably etymologically derive from "Mahomet" AKA the Prophet Muhammad, but Muslims never worship anyone or anything other than God; "Baphomet" was just anti-Islamic propaganda., Freemasons tend to be Christians (but not Real, True Christians (TM) according to Jack Chick, of course). The only requirement to become a Freemason, in fact, is believing a higher power exists, though they don't get specific about it. The whole plot is a lazy imitation of the infamous Taxil Hoax, where anti-Catholic French journalist Leo Taxil published a series of books with completely fraudulent and outrageous "exposés" about Freemasons to mock the Catholic Church's opposition to the group, including the claim that they worship Baphomet. Chick seems to have taken Taxil at face value, despite the fact that he confessed to making the whole thing up.
• Homestuck.Tropes M To Z: When Karkat tries to warn everyone about Gamzee's rampage in a transtimeline memo, Feferi can't tell if he's serious or if all the memos have been jokes.
• WebVideo.Half In The Bag: In-Universe. Mike and Jay think the trailer of The Zookeeper is a fake movie trailer parody of by-the-numbers comedies starring Kevin James.
• Recap.Peeking Through The Fourth Wall Episode 17: Epsilon wonders if this fanfic is just an absurdist comedy because of its sheer levels of clichedness.
• WebVideo.Jimquisition: Apparently, some people didn't get that Steph Sterling's persona on the show is intentionally abrasive and narcissistic. So they decided to point it out as blatantly as possible without breaking character.
• FishOutOfTemporalWater.Live Action Films: Look Who's Back: Chillingly Subverted. Adolf Hitler suddenly comes back to life and he bumbles around in the world of The New '10s because he doesn't understand a lot of modern technology like the Internet... but then he adapts and things take a darker turn. He becomes an internet celebrity and gullible people begin to fall under his thrall precisely because nobody can believe that a pitch-perfect Hitler impersonator in modern Germany is anything more than some kind of politically-incorrect joke. And to him, if being seen as a comedian gets him supporters, then he'll play along.

Audience Reaction (examples and potholes) (23/50)

• Website.Smogon: During April Fool's 2016, the Battle Spot forum held a "suspect test" for Mega Kangaskhan, seeking to ban the Pokémon from the Battle Spot ladder on Showdown. Given that Battle Spot was a metagame managed by Game Freak, the so-called suspect test was a joke. However, some members did indeed believe that Smogon actually wanted to ban Pokémon from official metagames.
• Music.Laibach: It's not uncommon that they're mistaken to be genuinely fascist, no matter how ridiculous they get. Most bizarre of them all was when North Korea, of all countries, invited them to perform at their capital, leading many to wonder if the authoritarian nation had finally grown a sense of humor or had just missed all the satire.
• Music.Tyler The Creator: He has gone on record claiming that the beat for "Yonkers", which went on to become his mainstream breakthrough song, was made in under ten minutes to deliberately parody '90s New York hip-hop.
• ImAHumanitarian.Web Original: The now-defunct hoax website, ManBeef.com was a site that purported to sell cuts of human meat to (vetted, exclusive) buyers. There was no way to actually order anything from the site...although quite a few did try.
• WebVideo.Third Rate Gamer: There is a worrying amount of people who fail to realize he's a parody, if the YouTube comments are anything to go by.
• Fanfic.Harry Potter Becomes A Communist: Even with 191 chapters, it's notoriously difficult to determine whether the author is pro-communist or anti-communist in Real Life.
• Fanfic.My Immortal: Troll Fic: Possibly. Several people (someone named TheBatMan for example said it was his work) have claimed that this fic was deliberately written badly — and several readers believe this story was purposely created to offend devoted Harry Potter fans.
• Literature.Paperback Writer: The Dylan/Lennon/McCartney collaboration "Pneumonia Ceilings" has been mistakenly listed in various sources as a real song. Apparently the trouble started when a well-regarded writer of books about Bob Dylan referenced the story without being aware that the source was a piece of satirical fiction.
• Hollywood Satanism: Katy Perry played with this in her performance at the 2014 Grammy Awards. Unfortunately, many people took it as an indication of her being a real life Satanist. A matter not helped by the fact that, around this time, her "turbulent" relationship with her parents (who are both fundamentalist Christians) was getting extensive media coverage (Perry had once been a Gospel singer herself).
• Music.Randy Newman: A general rule of thumb with Newman's more socio-political songs is not to take anything he's saying at face value. At all. (followed by 3 examples of audience reactions)
• Straw Feminist: Sisera Catheter in Postmodern Pooh, who dissects Winnie the Pooh from the standpoint of "gynocritical discourse". Though the book is an obvious exaggeration, the footnotes quoting Real Life academic feminists suggest that Poe's Law applies to some extent.
• Web Original.Creamsicle: The original picture was a parody of the concept of Not Like Other Girls. It was misunderstood as being in earnest by a large crowd, which led to people shipping them in defiance and starting the whole fandom.
• Fanfic.She Found Out: it seems few reviewers got that it's a Parody and/or didn't read the author's note.
• VideoGame.Air Control: Nobody knows if the game was poorly made on purpose to make a point about Steam's lack of quality control, or if the developers really were that unskilled.
• Series.Mister Ed: According to Snopes, people were confused by a Chappelle's Show sketch showing Mister Ed using the N-word, thinking it came from the show.
• Film.The Pumaman: There's a debate whether the movie was intentionally trying to be goofy with the way Pumaman flies. MST3K's Paul Chaplin believes this was a form of subtle humor on the part of the filmmakers while the rest of the writers believed everything was done seriously. Tony's pose was probably intentional (he's trying to imitate a four-legged "pouncing" pose rather than a Superman-like flying pose), but the terrible special effects are probably not intentional.
• Creator.Lifetime: Camp: Once they caught on that the Lifetime Movie of the Week had attracted a cult following based on Narm Charm, they largely dropped the serious "cautionary tale" and "prestige" variants and started specializing in lurid thrillers done in a "we know this is cheesy, you know this is cheesy, and we know you know this is cheesy" spirit, with Strictly Formula plotlines, cliches turned up to eleven and Took the Bad Film Seriously acting. They're so over the top that when the network engages in Self-Parody, like Kristen Wiig and Will Ferrell in A Deadly Adoption, or the extended KFC ad A Recipe for Seduction with Mario Lopez, it just ends up looking like the real thing.
• AuthorTract.Fan Works: The Crack Fic Becoming Female is, at least superficially, a tract against sexism, with all the villains, especially Ron, being absurdly over-the-top Straw Misogynists. However, the feminist characters are so unlikable that some suspect that this whole thing is actually a disguised anti-feminist tract. Either way, this trope is in effect.
• Creator.Roger Ebert: Ebert admitted that the paradox is true of all satire, to some extent. In order to poke fun at something, you first have to play it straight, and unless you beat your audience over the head with the point that you really don't agree with what you're depicting, there's always going to be someone who takes you seriously. // Ebert went political and wrote a blog post giving a statement of creationist beliefs, with the intention of making a point about people's inability to recognize irony. While many people did see the satire, a significant number of readers either thought he was being serious or assumed the site had been hacked. PZ Myers criticized the article, pointing out that when there are so many people making the same claims without irony, the joke becomes undetectable to anyone who doesn't already know Ebert's stance on the issue. // Ebert records in his biography that after producing Beyond the Valley of the Dolls, an infamously over-the-top parody of sexploitation films, he and Russ Meyer met the Sex Pistols, and were nonplussed when Johnny Rotten said he admired the film because it was so true to life.
• Hide Your Lesbians: The Courage the Cowardly Dog episode "The Mask" has an extremely obvious example with Kitty and Bunny. Bunny’s abusive boyfriend Mad Dog threatened Kitty because of how close she is to Bunny, a minor character laments how good they were for each other and is saddened that they're apart, and their last scene is a tearful reunion in each others' arms, but you can make a drinking game out of how many times the phrase "best friend" is used to describe them. Naturally, this part of the episode - a thinly-veiled lesbian relationship - was what got the show tons of angry letters accusing them of promoting themes inappropriate to children (the disturbingly realistic portrayal of Domestic Abuse was apparently not worth comment.)
• Film.Florence Foster Jenkins: Hollywood Tone-Deaf: Florence is a straight example and this is Truth in Television. Partly for this reason, many assumed she was intentionally parodying bad opera singers. Played absolutely straight by Meryl Streep, whose performance may sound comically exaggerated but is in fact uncannily like Florence's actual voice. (One of her original recordings can be heard over the end credits for easy comparison.)
• Fast and Furry-ous: This cartoon was made as a parody on the typical chase cartoons of that era (such as Tom and Jerry). Jones had intended it as a one-shot idea. To his surprise, the audience didn't get that this was a parody, but absolutely loved the cartoon, making room for more films around the duo.
• Californy Er Bust: It is such an Affectionate Parody of western films that the gags are deliberately silly, and it even satirizes depictions of Native Americans in films at the time. This didn't prevent the film from being banned from TV because of its apparently racist depiction of Native Americans.

"This is (not) a parody" / "[the troper] can't tell" pothole (12/50)

• Recap.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 2 E 3 Lesson Zero: Took a Level in Badass: Subverted, or parodied, even; Twilight thinks Fluttershy has done this when she appears to be wiping the floor with an angry bear. (See Not What It Looks Like above.) If it hadn't been subverted, it would have been exaggerated, hence the parody.
• Hollywood Atheist: The website Objective Ministries has this depiction of the typical atheist, and supplies the page image. It should be noted that Objective Ministries is a parody site.
• Ghetto Name: Victoria: The mayor of New Orleans is named Mr. Tsombe "Big Daddy" Toussaint L’Overture Othello Jones. No, this book isn't a parody.
• My Rule Fu Is Stronger than Yours: In one Jewish tale, a bunch of rabbis are contradicted by God about the correct way to perform a certain ritual; He appears and His voice comes booming out of the sky telling them they're wrong. The rabbis confer with each other for a moment, and then turn back to God and tell Him that the decision falls under rabbinical jurisdiction and that according to the rules, it's their ruling that counts, not His. God concedes the point and backs down. (And no, this is not intended to be a joke about how Jews Love to Argue.)
• WebAnimation.Weebl And Bob: Rule 34: Parodied in Sexy Robots. Or at least, we HOPE it's a parody....
• Dance Sensation: The Rick and Morty Season 1 finale had "The Rick Dance". According to the creator commentary, it was meant to be a parody that nobody got. It isn't easy to tell if they meant it all along.
• Early-Installment Weirdness.Music: GFOTY (Girlfriend of the Year), one of the bigger names of the online PC Music label, has a distinctly wild, deconstructionist, and semi-parodic sound, based on taking pop music sensibilities and dialing their most loud, experimental, and hedonistic traits up to eleven. Her debut single, "Bobby", however, is a rather straightforward pop ballad with an unusual amount of sincerity from her, though it didn't take her too long afterwards to develop her signature Mind Screw-y and post-ironic style.
• Fanfic.Brewdening Love: Troll Fic: It could easily be this.
• Punctuation Shaker: In a truly bizarre example: Rifts has a race of aliens in its Three Galaxies setting called the K!ozn. The book explains that it's pronounced kot-zin. This may or may not have been meant as a parody.
• Characters.Metal Gear Solid 2 Sons Of Liberty: Agent Mulder: Emma's explanation of what the Patriots have or could have done to information ("You know how the alphabet has twenty-six letters? Well, it could have been thirty. What if the other letters were deleted by a program?") and her "justifications" ("Have you ever seen a gene? Have you counted them yourself?") make her sound like this to the point that she can come off sounding like a parody.
• The Mall: The "mall ninja" thread (which may or may not be a Stealth Parody or a troll) is the stereotypical "tough guy" mall rent-a-cop turned up a notch. It has spawned a Memetic Mutation among gun enthusiasts, with the term "mall ninja" being used to describe people who buy guns, blades, and "tactical" gear (especially of the Awesome, but Impractical variety), and/or claim combat expertise far beyond what they actually have, simply to look badass and convince others of their badassery.
• The Comically Serious: Gunnerkrigg Court: Jones has never so much as smiled in the entire run of the comic. Giving her a party hat is comedy gold. Topped only by her non-reaction to a pigeon dancing across her head. What makes it even better is that sometimes she clearly pokes fun with straight face, so with her perfect poker face it's impossible to tell where this ends.

ZCE/other (2/50)

• Webcomic.Ruby Quest: Many of Weaver's discontinuity gags and jokes appear to be actually half-canon to the story.
• Literature.Mother Night: Stealth Parody: What Campbell hoped he would be, but he ran badly afoul of Poe's Law.

Proposal: Mark the page as YMMV and clean up wicks.