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'''Problem''': PoesLaw describes the phenomenon of parody/satire being indistinguishable from sufficient extremism. This is an AudienceReaction, so only in-universe examples or invocations should be listed on main pages. The on-page examples are already separated into IU and OOU.

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'''Problem''': '''Summary''': PoesLaw describes the phenomenon of parody/satire being indistinguishable from sufficient extremism. This is an AudienceReaction, so only in-universe examples or invocations should be listed on main pages. The on-page examples are already separated into IU and OOU.

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[[foldercontrol]]



[[folder:"This is (not) a parody" / "[the editor] can't tell" pothole (12/50)]]

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[[folder:"This is (not) a parody" / "[the editor] troper] can't tell" pothole (12/50)]]
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'''Problem''': PoesLaw describes the phenomenon of parody/satire being indistinguishable from sufficient extremism. This is an AudienceReaction, so only in-universe examples or invocations should be listed on main pages.

to:

'''Problem''': PoesLaw describes the phenomenon of parody/satire being indistinguishable from sufficient extremism. This is an AudienceReaction, so only in-universe examples or invocations should be listed on main pages.
pages. The on-page examples are already separated into IU and OOU.



'''Proposal''': Mark the page as YMMV and clean up wicks. Separate on-page examples into IU and OOU.

to:

'''Proposal''': Mark the page as YMMV and clean up wicks. Separate on-page examples into IU and OOU.
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OP written by: @/{{mathfreak231}}

Category: Actually YMMV
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'''Methodology''': Only work page entries and potholes in trope examples were considered. (Anything already YMMV, Trivia, or Real Life was not considered, though the latter two categories should also be cleaned of opinion-based potholes.) 50 wicks were checked.

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'''Methodology''': Only work page entries and potholes in trope examples were considered. (Anything Anything already YMMV, Trivia, or Real Life was not considered, though the latter two categories should also be cleaned of opinion-based potholes.) potholes. 50 wicks were checked.
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Added DiffLines:

'''Problem''': PoesLaw describes the phenomenon of parody/satire being indistinguishable from sufficient extremism. This is an AudienceReaction, so only in-universe examples or invocations should be listed on main pages.

'''Question for wick check''': Are there many wicks that are opinion-based or audience reactions?

'''Methodology''': Only work page entries and potholes in trope examples were considered. (Anything already YMMV, Trivia, or Real Life was not considered, though the latter two categories should also be cleaned of opinion-based potholes.) 50 wicks were checked.

'''Findings''': 23/50 wicks were audience reactions being noted on the main page. The page also proves to be a pothole magnet in natter, with 12/50 wicks being a "we can never tell if this is serious" or "jsyk this is/isn't actually parody" comment. Only 13/50 properly described the phenomenon InUniverse.

[[folder:Properly In-Universe (examples and potholes) (13/50)]]
* Webcomic.SweetBroAndHellaJeff: An in-universe example: in ''Homestuck'', it's [[https://www.homestuck.com/story/326 described as]] "a webcomic ironically maintained through a satirical cipher" with "legions of devoted fans, most of whom are totally convinced" of Dave's sockpuppet persona's sincerity.
* WebVideo.{{Retsupurae}}: The guys have a little trouble with this sometimes. For instance, in ''The Marios'' they mistake a troll for an actual moron. They decide to start pre-screening videos beforehand after realizing they'd been fooled. In ''Amnesia: The Dork's Descent'', Diabetus and slowbeef argue about whether or not the [=LPer=]'s hysterical terror is staged - Diabetus is positive that it is, while slowbeef merely ''hopes'' so. The fact that the [=LPer=] in question, Jenomorph, favorited the video just hours after it was uploaded may support that theory.
* WebVideo.{{Chadtronic}}: He encounters several bizarre articles about the supposed evils of ''VideoGame/{{Fortnite}}'', one of them claims that a bunch of women are petitioning to get the game banned in the UK because their boyfriends are "being brainwashed" into playing it in favor of their girlfriends. Considering how outlandish many of the articles on the game have been so far, he can't tell if it's a satirical article or not.
* Podcast.CoxNCrendor: Jesse discusses an epiphany he had watching next episode trailers for ''Series/HellsKitchen'', realizing that they were so blatantly false compared to the episodes themselves that he's not entirely certain whether they're serious and lying or meant to spoof trailers of that nature.
* Literature.AuthorAuthor1964: Graham claims the first story was intended as a biting satire of detective fiction, but the public didn't realise that.
* Recap.PhineasAndFerbTheSecretOfSuccess: Lawrence mistakes Doofenshmirtz's telethon for a work of satire.
* SouthPark.TropesKToQ: Meta-example: Parker and Stone's reaction upon discovering [[http://www.wingmusic.co.nz/ Wing]] was that it was either a [[http://youtu.be/sojqBLIhwyE super-sweet joke or a super-sweet not-joke.]]
* ArtisticLicenseReligion: The ''ComicBook/ChickTracts'' often do this to any religious ideology besides Jack Chick's own version of Christian fundamentalism (which is rather extreme, even for normal fundamentalism). When he does his research, it is usually from unreliable or discredited sources -- sometimes even his own version of Christian fundamentalism. As a result, not everyone is convinced his works aren't an elaborate parody. It helps that he is so cryptic a person that absolutely nothing is known about him. Wikipedia even suggests that "Jack Chick" might have been the "pen name for an unnamed author or authors". Examples of Artistic License -- Religious Studies from ''Chick Tracts'' include: [[http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1074/1074_01.asp Freemasons worship Baphomet.]] Putting aside that nobody has ever worshiped Baphomet [[note]]Baphomet is actually a phony pagan god that was invented as an excuse to prosecute the Knights Templar for devil worship. Some occultists used Baphomet as a symbolic representation (of God himself in most cases) but never worshiped it as an actual god. The name "Baphomet" does probably etymologically derive from "Mahomet" AKA [[UsefulNotes/{{Islam}} the Prophet Muhammad]], but Muslims never worship anyone or anything other than God; "Baphomet" was just anti-Islamic propaganda.[[/note]], Freemasons tend to be Christians (but not Real, True Christians (TM) according to Jack Chick, of course). The only requirement to become a Freemason, in fact, is believing a higher power exists, though they don't get specific about it. The whole plot is a lazy imitation of the infamous [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxil_hoax Taxil Hoax]], where anti-Catholic French journalist Leo Taxil published a series of books with completely fraudulent and outrageous "exposés" about Freemasons to mock the Catholic Church's opposition to the group, including the claim that they worship Baphomet. Chick seems to have [[PoesLaw taken Taxil at face value]], despite the fact that he confessed to making the whole thing up.
* Homestuck.TropesMToZ: When Karkat tries to warn everyone about Gamzee's rampage in a transtimeline memo, Feferi can't tell if he's serious or if ''all'' the memos have been jokes.
* WebVideo.HalfInTheBag: InUniverse. Mike and Jay think the trailer of ''Film/TheZookeeper'' is a fake movie trailer parody of by-the-numbers comedies starring Kevin James.
* Recap.PeekingThroughTheFourthWallEpisode17: Epsilon wonders if this fanfic is just an absurdist comedy because of its sheer levels of clichedness.
* WebVideo.{{Jimquisition}}: Apparently, some people didn't get that Steph Sterling's persona on the show is intentionally abrasive and narcissistic. So [[https://youtu.be/sDg4ByQ310k?t=1m57s they decided to point it out as blatantly as possible]] [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall without breaking character.]]
* FishOutOfTemporalWater.LiveActionFilms: ''Film/LookWhosBack'': Chillingly {{Subverted|Trope}}. UsefulNotes/AdolfHitler suddenly comes back to life and he bumbles around in the world of TheNewTens because he doesn't understand a lot of modern technology like the Internet... but then he adapts [[MoodWhiplash and things take a darker turn]]. He becomes an internet celebrity and gullible people begin to fall under his thrall [[RefugeInAudacity precisely because]] [[PoesLaw nobody can believe that a pitch-perfect Hitler impersonator in modern Germany is anything more than some kind of politically-incorrect joke]]. And to him, if being seen as a comedian gets him supporters, then he'll play along.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:Audience Reaction (examples and potholes) (23/50)]]
* Website.{{Smogon}}: During April Fool's 2016, the Battle Spot forum held a "[[https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/np-battle-spot-singles-suspect-process-round-1-mama-said-knock-you-out.3568819/ suspect test]]" for Mega Kangaskhan, seeking to ban the Pokémon from the Battle Spot ladder on Showdown. Given that Battle Spot was a metagame managed by Game Freak, the so-called suspect test was a joke. However, some members did indeed [[PoesLaw believe that Smogon actually wanted to ban Pokémon from official metagames]].
* Music.{{Laibach}}: It's not uncommon that they're mistaken to be genuinely fascist, no matter how ridiculous they get. Most bizarre of them all was when '''UsefulNotes/NorthKorea''', of all countries, [[http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/21/asia/laibach-north-korea/ invited them to perform at their capital]], leading many to wonder if the authoritarian nation had finally grown a sense of humor or had just missed all the satire.
* Music.TylerTheCreator: He has gone on record claiming that the beat for "Yonkers", which went on to become his mainstream breakthrough song, was made in under ten minutes to deliberately parody '90s New York hip-hop.
* ImAHumanitarian.WebOriginal: [[http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/manbeef.asp The now-defunct hoax website, ManBeef.com]] was a site that purported to sell cuts of human meat to (vetted, exclusive) buyers. There was no way to ''actually'' order anything from the site...[[PoesLaw although quite a few did try]].
* WebVideo.ThirdRateGamer: There is a worrying amount of people who fail to realize he's a parody, if the [=YouTube=] comments are anything to go by.
* Fanfic.HarryPotterBecomesACommunist: Even with 191 chapters, it's notoriously difficult to determine whether the author is pro-communist or anti-communist in RealLife.
* Fanfic.MyImmortal: TrollFic: [[PoesLaw Possibly.]] Several people (someone named [[http://web.archive.org/web/20110430232448/http://ohinternet.com/My_Immortal/TheBatMan%27s_confession TheBatMan]] for example said it was his work) have claimed that this fic was deliberately written badly -- and several readers believe this story was [[TakeThat purposely created to offend devoted Harry Potter fans]].
* Literature.PaperbackWriter: The Dylan/Lennon/[=McCartney=] collaboration "Pneumonia Ceilings" has been mistakenly listed in various sources as a real song. Apparently the trouble started when a well-regarded writer of books about Music/BobDylan referenced the story [[CowboyBebopAtHisComputer without being aware that the source was a piece of satirical fiction]].
* HollywoodSatanism: Music/KatyPerry played with this in her performance at the 2014 Grammy Awards. Unfortunately, many people [[PoesLaw took it as an indication of her being a real life Satanist.]] A matter not helped by the fact that, around this time, her "turbulent" relationship with her parents (who are both fundamentalist Christians) was getting extensive media coverage (Perry had once been a Gospel singer herself).
* Music.RandyNewman: A general rule of thumb with Newman's more socio-political songs is not to take anything he's saying at face value. At all. '''(followed by 3 examples of audience reactions)'''
* StrawFeminist: Sisera Catheter in ''Postmodern Pooh'', who dissects ''Winnie the Pooh'' from the standpoint of "gynocritical discourse". Though the book is an obvious exaggeration, the footnotes quoting RealLife academic feminists suggest that PoesLaw applies to some extent.
* WebOriginal.Creamsicle: The original picture was a parody of the concept of NotLikeOtherGirls. It was misunderstood as being in earnest by a large crowd, which led to people shipping them in defiance and starting the whole fandom.
* Fanfic.SheFoundOut: it seems few reviewers got that it's a {{Parody}} and/or didn't read the author's note.
* VideoGame.AirControl: ''Nobody'' knows if the game was [[StylisticSuck poorly made on purpose]] to make a point about Steam's lack of quality control, or if the developers really were that unskilled.
* Series.MisterEd: According to Snopes, people were confused by a ''Series/ChappellesShow'' sketch showing Mister Ed using the N-word, thinking it came from the show.
* Film.ThePumaman: There's a debate whether the movie was intentionally trying to be goofy with the way Pumaman flies. [=MST3K=]'s Paul Chaplin believes this was a form of subtle humor on the part of the filmmakers while the rest of the writers believed everything was done seriously. Tony's pose was probably intentional (he's trying to imitate a four-legged "pouncing" pose rather than a Superman-like flying pose), but the terrible special effects are probably not intentional.
* Creator.{{Lifetime}}: {{Camp}}: Once they caught on that the LifetimeMovieOfTheWeek had attracted a cult following based on NarmCharm, they largely dropped the serious "cautionary tale" and "prestige" variants and started specializing in lurid thrillers done in a "we know this is cheesy, you know this is cheesy, and [[IKnowYouKnowIKnow we know you know this is cheesy]]" spirit, with StrictlyFormula plotlines, cliches turned up to eleven and TookTheBadFilmSeriously acting. They're so over the top that when the network engages in SelfParody, like Creator/KristenWiig and Creator/WillFerrell in ''A Deadly Adoption'', or the extended KFC ad ''Film/ARecipeForSeduction'' with Creator/MarioLopez, it just [[PoesLaw ends up looking like the real thing]].
* AuthorTract.FanWorks: The CrackFic ''Fanfic/BecomingFemale'' is, at least superficially, a tract against sexism, with all the villains, especially [[RonTheDeathEater Ron]], being absurdly over-the-top {{Straw Misogynist}}s. However, the feminist characters are so unlikable that some suspect that [[PoesLaw this whole thing is actually a disguised anti-feminist tract]]. Either way, this trope is in effect.
* Creator.RogerEbert: Ebert admitted that the paradox is true of ''all'' satire, to some extent. In order to poke fun at something, you first have to play it straight, and unless you [[{{Anvilicious}} beat your audience over the head with the point]] that you really don't agree with what you're depicting, there's always going to be someone who takes you seriously. // Ebert went political and wrote a [[http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080921/COMMENTARY/809219997/-1/RSS blog post]] giving a statement of creationist beliefs, with the intention of making a point about people's inability to recognize irony. While many people did see the satire, a significant number of readers either thought he was being serious or assumed the site had been hacked. PZ Myers [[http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/09/there_is_such_a_thing_as_bad_s.php criticized]] the article, pointing out that when there are so many people making the same claims without irony, the joke becomes undetectable to anyone who doesn't already know Ebert's stance on the issue. // Ebert records in his biography that after producing ''Film/BeyondTheValleyOfTheDolls'', an infamously over-the-top parody of sexploitation films, he and Russ Meyer met the Music/SexPistols, and were nonplussed when Johnny Rotten said he admired the film because it was ''so true to life''.
* HideYourLesbians: The ''WesternAnimation/CourageTheCowardlyDog'' episode "The Mask" has an extremely obvious example with Kitty and Bunny. Bunny’s [[DomesticAbuse abusive boyfriend Mad Dog]] threatened Kitty because of how close she is to Bunny, a minor character laments how good they were for each other and is saddened that they're apart, and their last scene is a tearful reunion in each others' arms, but you can make a drinking game out of how many times the phrase "best friend" is used to describe them. [[PoesLaw Naturally]], ''this'' part of the episode - a thinly-veiled lesbian relationship - was what got the show [[MoralGuardians tons of angry letters]] accusing them of promoting themes inappropriate to children (the disturbingly realistic portrayal of DomesticAbuse was apparently [[SkewedPriorities not worth comment.]])
* Film.FlorenceFosterJenkins: HollywoodToneDeaf: Florence is a straight example and this is TruthInTelevision. Partly for this reason, many [[PoesLaw assumed she was intentionally parodying]] bad opera singers. Played absolutely straight by Creator/MerylStreep, whose performance may sound comically exaggerated but is in fact ''uncannily'' like Florence's actual voice. (One of her original recordings can be heard over the end credits for easy comparison.)
* WesternAnimation/FastAndFurryOus: This cartoon was made as a parody on the typical chase cartoons of that era (such as ''WesternAnimation/TomAndJerry''). Jones had intended it as a one-shot idea. To his surprise, the audience didn't get that this was a parody, but absolutely loved the cartoon, making room for more films around the duo.
* WesternAnimation/CalifornyErBust: It is such an AffectionateParody of western films that the gags are deliberately silly, and it even satirizes depictions of Native Americans in films at the time. This didn't prevent the film from being banned from TV ''because'' of its apparently racist depiction of Native Americans.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:"This is (not) a parody" / "[the editor] can't tell" pothole (12/50)]]
* Recap.MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS2E3LessonZero: TookALevelInBadass: {{Subverted|Trope}}, or {{parodied|Trope}}, even; Twilight thinks Fluttershy has done this when she appears to be [[CurbStompBattle wiping the floor]] with an angry bear. (See NotWhatItLooksLike above.) If it hadn't been subverted, it would have been {{exaggerated|Trope}}, [[PoesLaw hence the parody]].
* HollywoodAtheist: The website [[http://www.objectiveministries.org Objective Ministries]] has [[http://objectiveministries.org/kidz/ this]] depiction of the typical atheist, and supplies the page image. It should be noted that [[PoesLaw Objective Ministries is a parody site.]]
* GhettoName: ''Literature/{{Victoria}}'': The mayor of New Orleans is named [[OverlyLongName Mr. Tsombe "Big Daddy" Toussaint L’Overture Othello Jones]]. No, [[PoesLaw this book isn't a parody]].
* MyRuleFuIsStrongerThanYours: In one Jewish tale, a bunch of rabbis are contradicted by God about the correct way to perform a certain ritual; He appears and His voice comes booming out of the sky telling them they're wrong. The rabbis confer with each other for a moment, and then turn back to God and tell Him that the decision falls under rabbinical jurisdiction and that according to the rules, it's their ruling that counts, not His. God concedes the point and [[DidYouJustScamCthulhu backs down]]. ([[PoesLaw And no,]] this is not intended to be a joke about how JewsLoveToArgue.)
* WebAnimation.WeeblAndBob: RuleThirtyFour: Parodied in [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhQhZ4rcJdU Sexy Robots]]. [[PoesLaw Or at least, we HOPE it's a parody....]]
* DanceSensation: The ''WesternAnimation/RickAndMorty'' Season 1 finale had "The Rick Dance". According to [[WordOfGod the creator commentary]], [[ParodyRetcon it was meant to be a parody that nobody got]]. It isn't easy to tell if [[PoesLaw they meant it all along]].
* EarlyInstallmentWeirdness.Music: [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GFOTY GFOTY (Girlfriend of the Year)]], one of the bigger names of the online Music/PCMusic label, has a distinctly wild, deconstructionist, and semi-parodic sound, based on taking pop music sensibilities and dialing their most loud, experimental, and hedonistic traits up to eleven. Her debut single, "[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrgXTRTDYaw Bobby]]", however, is a rather straightforward pop ballad with an unusual amount of sincerity from her, though [[https://soundcloud.com/pcmus/gfoty-secret-mix it didn't take her too long afterwards to develop her]] {{signature|Style}} MindScrew-y and [[PoesLaw post-ironic]] style.
* Fanfic.BrewdeningLove: TrollFic: [[PoesLaw It could easily be this.]]
* PunctuationShaker: In a truly bizarre example: ''TabletopGame/{{Rifts}}'' has a race of aliens in its Three Galaxies setting called the K!ozn. The book explains that it's pronounced ''kot-zin''. [[PoesLaw This may or may not have been meant as a parody.]]
* Characters.MetalGearSolid2SonsOfLiberty: AgentMulder: Emma's explanation of what the Patriots have or could have done to information ("You know how the alphabet has twenty-six letters? Well, it could have been ''thirty.'' What if the other letters were deleted by a program?") and her "justifications" ("Have you ever seen a gene? Have you counted them yourself?") make her sound like this to the point that she can come off sounding like [[PoesLaw a parody]].
* TheMall: The [[http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/ "mall ninja" thread]] (which [[PoesLaw may or may not be]] a StealthParody or a {{troll}}) is the stereotypical "tough guy" mall rent-a-cop turned up a notch. It has spawned a MemeticMutation among gun enthusiasts, with the term "mall ninja" being used to describe people who buy guns, blades, and "tactical" gear (especially of the AwesomeButImpractical variety), and/or [[MilesGloriosus claim combat expertise far beyond what they actually have]], simply to look badass and convince others of their badassery.
* TheComicallySerious: ''Webcomic/GunnerkriggCourt'': Jones has never so much as smiled in the entire run of the comic. [[http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=790 Giving her a party hat]] is comedy gold. Topped only by her non-reaction to [[http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=841 a pigeon dancing across her head]]. What makes it even better is that ''[[http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=478 sometimes]]'' she clearly [[DeadpanSnarker pokes fun with straight face]], so with her perfect poker face [[PoesLaw it's impossible to tell]] where this ends.
[[/folder]]

[[folder:ZCE/other (2/50)]]
* Webcomic.RubyQuest: Many of Weaver's discontinuity gags and jokes appear to be actually half-canon to the story.
* Literature.MotherNight: StealthParody: What Campbell hoped he would be, but he ran badly afoul of PoesLaw.
[[/folder]]

'''Proposal''': Mark the page as YMMV and clean up wicks. Separate on-page examples into IU and OOU.

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