Complaining: All Adult Animation Is South Park

The complaining cleanup thread found that All Adult Animation Is South Park complains about shows with this element and gushes about shows without. In particular, the trope description is very complainy^excerpt "Bad news! Instead, the mainstream American audience now believes that all animation that is made for adults is inherently full of Black Comedy, graphic violence, copious amounts of swearing, Vulgar Humor, Toilet Humour, deliberately offensive stereotypes, and, to a lesser extent, surrealistic Mind Screws! If your animated show or movie doesn't have any of those things in it, then sorry, but everyone still thinks it's for kids only.", and many on-page examples (particularly in the Western Animation folder) have this problem. (It is unknown if the wicks have the same problem.) Example entry:

• Netflix's Paradise PD is a glaring example of this trope in action, released almost a full decade after edgy animated sitcoms had fallen out of favor with viewers. Every episode is a nonstop barrage of stereotypes, graphic violence, drug jokes, grossout jokes, Toilet Humour, and Comedic Sociopathy so unrelenting it almost borders on parody, and the characters aren't nearly three-dimensional enough to make up for it.

Edited by LaundryPizza03 on Oct 3rd 2020 at 12:37:52 PM

Since the issue was brought up elsewhere first (and others believed there's a problem), I'll open this.

Honestly, I’m not sure how we can save this trope. Even if we gave it a more neutral name such as Vulgar Adult Cartoon, I could still see it being used to complain about various shows.

I could've sworn this was a YMMV trope (like All Animation Is Disney), but surprisingly it's not.

A quick wick check for the Western Animation namespace:

The biggest problem I'm seeing aside from complaining is that a lot of these entries lack proper context and border on Zero-Context Examples. Also, is limited/ugly-looking animation a requirement of the trope, because I see a few entries here acting like it is.

I also find it really ironic that despite the trope's name and how often it's brought up in the entries for other shows, South Park itself doesn't even have an All Adult Animation Is South Park entry on its page.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Oct 4th 2020 at 1:27:02 PM

I was thinking about limiting this trope to parodies, lampshades, discussions, desconstructions, etc. and creating a genre index for Western Adult Animation. All Anime Is Naughty Tentacles does the same thing.

Also I support renaming this to All Adult Animation Is Crass Comedy for the stigma/ghetto, and maybe the genre index could be called Vulgar Adult Comedy.

Edited by ccorb on Oct 4th 2020 at 1:33:23 PM

I suggested renaming the trope to All Adult Animation Is Crass Comedy, to broaden it a bit beyond South Park (which arguably is not that central to the trope any more these days), and because that name moves focus away from an opinion about the genre to the genre of adult animation itself.

Making it "no straight examples" would make sense, since tropes like Vulgar Humor and Refuge in Audacity cover most of the "relies on offensive humor" ground already. I never got why this was an objective trope when entries are usually based on either audience misconception or audience reception. Also supporting an adult-oriented western animation index if we don't have one already.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 4th 2020 at 3:20:57 PM

Seconded on the new index.

I support ccorb's proposition — this should follow the same template as All Anime Is Naughty Tentacles.

I disagree with renaming - I don't think the name is the reason for the complaining, it's a lot of extra work, and South Park is the Trope Codifier for this type of animation and inspired a whole slew of imitators.

I'm hesitant about making this an in-universe trope because I honestly haven't seen that many works that show a stigma against adult cartoons because they have a reputation for being crass.

If you do something like that, I feel that's really only going to apply to critics (whether professional or amateur) discussing the topic in their reviews, or creators discussing the perception. I can't think of a single piece of media where the characters discuss this trope.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Oct 4th 2020 at 4:37:37 AM

Looking at the Anime & Manga folder makes me believe that there's plenty of anime influenced by the American-style vulgar humor in adult cartoons (especially Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt and The Ping-Pong Club). Maybe there's an inversion of Animesque?

Uh, Animesque is specifically about art style, not anything else, as we've come to decide at the trope's own TRS thread.

Panty Stocking at least also looks much more like an American cartoon than an anime.

Ping-Pong Club also looks a lot like Beavis and Butt-Head.

Alright, got me there.

Even if we cleaned up all the complaining, wouldn't that just make it "Vulgar Humor in animation," which is just Vulgar Humor But More Specific?

We also have Gross-Out Show, which is this but for both adult and kids cartoons. And also for live-action works.

Edited by ccorb on Oct 4th 2020 at 6:22:13 AM

In this post, I'll collect wicks that I find which are discussed, lampshaded, deconstructed, etc. And I'm getting the feeling that The Mysterious Mr. Enter really doesn't like these shows:

Better than a Bare Bulb:

• Lampshading common cartoon tropes is the whole point of Drawn Together. The show also tends to point out and/or ridicule really offensive stereotypes and lazy adult jokes before immediately playing all of them straight right afterwards. If someone who's watched the show could elaborate on this, it could be a good example.

Genre Turning Point:

• Final Space and Bojack Horseman have both been credited for defying the All Adult Animation Is South Park mentality that has historically pervaded adult animated works, and being among the first successful adult animated dramas (albeit with comedy elements).

Satire and Switch:

• Bojack Horseman was a darker take on Sitcom tropes from the beginning, with the Hollywoo(d) satire being fairly standard, lax and somewhat derivative, which made people think it was just another regular adult cartoon back when it premiered in 2014. Halfway the 1st season, the show switched gears from general satire to dramatic character study, with the refocus toward the damaged Hollywoo(d) characters coloring the satire moving forward, making it sharper and more vicious.

Slow-Paced Beginning:

• Bojack Horseman didn't impress too many people with its first few episodes; while not bad, they didn't look like much more than a typical adult animated sitcom, complete with Family Guy-esque Cutaway Gags and an unsympathetic protagonist. Around halfway through the first season, however, it revealed itself to be more of a thoughtful character study with surprising emotional heft. When the creator talked about this years later, he revealed that he wishes he made the build up to the Tone Shift more obvious or just had the show as a tragicomedy from the start.
  There are clues in the beginning, and I think because of the context of it being an adult animated show, people didn't see those clues. (...) I remember reading reviews of the first season, and one said "for a show that is meant to be just wall-to-wall jokes, there sure are a lot of scenes that don't have that many jokes." And I thought, "You're so close."

Unbuilt Trope:

• Ralph Bakshi's early films pioneered adult Western animation driven by racy content and edgy humor. But they were also fairly grim portrayals of life in New York City, even featuring some somber moments of Mood Whiplash; the Jerkass protagonists that became common in the genre were targets of satirical mockery; and more "offensive" elements such as racial stereotypes were generally used as social commentary. While some of today's adult animation, including South Park itself, arguably does follow up on Bakshi's satirical tendencies, this was certainly not the case with the now-forgotten Fritz the Cat imitators of The '70s.

Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt:

• All Adult Animation Is South Park: Possibly the only example of this done, for better or worse, on purpose. Most countries actually consider it even more adult than South Park itself. Seems like gushing.

Archer.Tropes A To C:

• All Adult Animation Is South Park: Zig-zagged. The show is primarily a black and blue comedy, with its dialogue and content sometimes bordering on softcore to medium-core porn, and its dark comedy often being darker than the usual adherents to this trope, though it also averts Stylistic Suck through use of its photorealistic animation, deep characterization, and writing style that rewards consistent listening. Season 8 becomes more of a Dramedy than the previous seasons. Gushing.

Awesome.The Mysterious Mr Enter:

• His review of the Drawn Together Movie as a whole is one CMOA, but specific mention goes to his absolute explosion towards the end of the review chewing down on the film for not having a point, and comparing the lack of having a point to having a lack of a reason to exist, as well as eviscerating the All Adult Animation Is South Park and Rated M for Money mentalities.

BoJackHorseman.Tropes C To D:

• Deconstruction: Of the stereotypes of western adult animation, especially Family Guy. BoJack is clearly made out to be a jerk, to both the audience and the other characters, who not only gets exactly what he deserves as a result but is fully aware and wants to make something better of himself, rarely ever doing so. And if he unlearns something important, something terrible happens as a result. It also takes a huge sledgehammer to the status quo and doesn't waste a single plot point.

Literature.Sick Little Monkeys:

• All Adult Animation Is South Park: In the chapter describing the Adult Party Cartoon revival, John defends putting explicit sex and nudity in his show because "South Park does that all the time." Both the narrative and those present at the time note that South Park had never depicted explicit sex and/or nudity in the early 2000s, when John was making his show.

PlayingWith.Dysfunctional Family:

• Conversed: "Quirky dysfunctional family? Domestic violence played for laughs? Must be a FOX animated comedy."

Quotes.Animation Age Ghetto:

"These guys loved what we were doing. They were free to create, to say anything and man, could they animate. Not the slick, boring, perfect stuff, but the "I really feel this scene" kinda stuff. I believe in what I am drawing. I believe in what I am drawing. What adult animation means to me is not tits and ass, but the right to animate any subject or idea you have and let the ratings fall where they may. All I wanted to do was animate the things I thought about and not the dolls they thought about."

— Ralph Bakshi, "Draw What You Want to Draw"

From the beginning, cartoons were always made for everyone. Since the Twenties through Sixties, animated shorts like the Looney Tunes were played in movie theaters and drive-ins before films. Generally, it was for all ages. Occasionally, inappropriate stuff was snuck in. TV later became more prominent. Hanna-Barbera's studios made animation more and marketable towards children, since they felt adults wouldn't get past their more Limited Animation, and that's were the stigma came to be. Multiple attempts have been made to make more mature, theatrical animation, but never did that break into mainstream success. At most, people accept animation as comedy, and they think there's only comedy in animation. It's, it's not. No. Stupid.\\ This is an unsourced quote that's long and sinkholed.

Quotes.Lowest Common Denominator:

And I'm not going to lie, one of main things that did cement it as number one status here is the influence of Family Guy. How many shows on this list that I mentioned alone were clearly inspired by Family Guy? Every single cartoon inspired by Family Guy in any way whatsoever is worthless, it is pointless, it is the degradation of animation.

— The Mysterious Mr. Enter on Family Guy and its influence on other adult animated shows.

Recap.Paradise PDS 02 E 08 Operation DD:

• All Adult Animation Is South Park: Karen points out the monotonous nature of adult animated sitcoms ripping each other off and using the exact same style of comedy in all of their shows when she calls Brickleberry "Family Guy in the woods", which is especially ironic, given Paradise PD is basically just Brickleberry but with cops, continuing adult animation's long line of Family Guy rip-offs, joining the ranks of: American Dad!, The Cleveland Show, Bob's Burgers, Bordertown, Fugget About It, etc. ^note Although this line of rip-offs goes back even further than that. Family Guy, itself is a rip-off of The Simpsons, which ripped off The Flintstones, which ripped off The Honeymooners.
  • She also differentiates Big Mouth from all of these shows, despite it also being filled with shocking gross-out toilet humor, gratuitious swearing, non-sequitur nonsense, and cutaway gags.

UnbuiltTrope.Western Animation:

• South Park is almost single-handedly responsible for creating the extremely vulgar, audacious and line-crossing brand of humor that's become almost synonymous with Western adult animation. But unlike many of its imitators, the show's humor relies heavily on satire; while sexual and scatological humor is frequently featured, it's not the sole type of comedy in the show, or even the primary one.

WebVideo.Jesu Otaku:

• All Adult Animation Is South Park: Discussed in a few episodes. One of the many reasons JO lists for loving anime is how Japanese animation has more freedom to explore more themes and genres than here in the West, where animation is seen as either "a man-child comedy" (The Simpsons, South Park, Futurama, Family Guy, American Dad!, and more), or straight-up "for children."

Edited by ccorb on Oct 4th 2020 at 7:33:26 AM

Merge All Adult Animation Is South Park into the more neutral Gross-Out Show, then.

Edited by Snicka on Oct 4th 2020 at 12:29:40 PM

Isn't this concept indirectly covered by Animation Age Ghetto as well?

(Also "South Park's primary comedy is satire and not offensive comedy" isn't even true, it's equal at best, especially early seasons before the show became known for satire.)

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 4th 2020 at 7:44:46 AM

If it gets merged, then there should be two separate folders for Western animation: one for adult animation and the other for more family-friendly animation.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Oct 4th 2020 at 8:02:17 AM

I'd rather we just scrap the trope altogether. Half of the examples are complaining, and the other half are defensive.

Vulgar Humor is a better match than Gross-Out Show. I don't think most of them rely primarily on being gross.

It has 14000 inbounds. It needs to be redirected somewhere and not just be cut.

Options to redirect it if we cut it (which feels most likely given how well the idea is covered elsewhere and there's not a lot of in-universe examples that aren't themselves very complainy):

• A new index for Adult Western Animation
• Vulgar Humor
• Gross-Out Show
• Animation Age Ghetto (since the trope is built off drastic measures to avert this)

Or, better yet....we make a disambiguation for these related tropes, as well as South Park itself.

The other option is to make it YMMV and refer to shows that met this reception, but that still runs the risk of complaining.

Edited by mightymewtron on Oct 4th 2020 at 8:33:20 AM

I support disambiguating it.