Needs Help: The Judge

Two issues:

• A judge appearing in a story isn't tropeworthy by itself, being a normal Real Life occupation. Many examples on the page and Wicks are just "this story has a judge in it".
• Almost all of the description is devoted to detailing two common portrayals of judges in media, "stern black woman" and "gruff older man". Now these may be tropeworthy as stereotypes about judges, but in this case the trope name is non-indicative, there is rampant misuse for any judge ever, and the sub-tropes listed aren't actually examples of the trope.

Wick check (50):

Stats:

• Black women - 2 (4%)
• Old men - 1 (2%)
• Judges or judging in general & ZCE - 36 (72%)
• Ace Attorney examples of the same character - 11 (22%)

(I chose to not to make categories for further combinations of the types mentioned in the description, such as male blacks and white females, because I felt they were too unspecific to be tropable and almost no Wicks were specific enough anyway to discern whether they were examples of these subtypes - I encountered no obvious black males, save perhaps the Ambiguously Brown Ozma.)

The vast majority of the Wicks pay no attention to the trope description, if any pay at all. Furthermore, a sizable quantity is simply Wiki Wording the Judge character from Ace Attorney whenever he is mentioned. Now since he is an old white-bearded man, he technically qualifies as the "old man" judge stereotype, making the examples of that type 24% - but that is clearly coincidental and the amount of other examples is vanishingly small.

If we prune the stereotypes from the description to match the usage, what is left? The first line and subtropes, which is basically nothing. (I don't think interpreting "Sooner or later, everyone winds up in front of The Judge" literally would result in any useful trope that isn't already covered by e.g. Law Procedural.)

Edited by Laukku on Jul 11th 2020 at 4:03:48 PM

Opening and bumping.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Regarding the wick check, wiki indexes like The Courtoom Index are not really expected to give context or usage so I generally don’t count them. I also don’t check Pantheon wicks as those are usually just reworded sinkholes.

Still, I can see how this is a ZCE magnet. I think something like Stern Old Judge is tropable, but this isn’t it. I’d support a retool.

And in the case of Ace Attorney, it’s seemingly similar to The Missingno in that fans just pothole It everywhere. (He is a bearded older white(?) guy though.)

Edited by Synchronicity on Jul 17th 2020 at 7:55:39 AM

I like the idea of retooling this into a Stern Old Judge trope; that’s definitely something that exists.

back lol

Just "a judge" is not worthy of a trope.

Is "stern old judge" really tropeworthy? Being stern I think is part of the job description. And judges are old because by the time they're appointed (or in some jurisdictions elected), they would have had significant professional experience. A young judge would go on Improbable Age.

If there's emphasis on the Stock Character aspect, maybe?

I'm thinking this should be cut and optionally TLP entries be made for whatever tropes deemed salvageable.

I'm sure this can be turned into something more tropeworthy or possibly split into multiple tropeworthy pages, such as Stern Old Judge. Standard Office Setting and Drop-In Landlord were created after Office and Landlord were cut respectively for not being tropeworthy.

Edited by ADrago on Jul 19th 2020 at 5:03:10 AM

Whoever's willing to run a TLP draft can do so. This one contains only 2-3 examples that can be migrated to that potential draft.

I like the Stern Old Judge idea, but most of us don't know much about TLP, or just don't like it, or something. Rarely ever does anyone here offers to start a TLP draft.

I'd like to apologize for all this.

Hey, I love the TLP. It might be my favorite area on the site. ^note It's broken as shit and I have a love-hate relationship with it, but the love is still there. The problem is, sponsoring a draft takes a lot of time and energy and I just don't personally have that right now. I'm juggling a bunch of drafts I'm not sure what to do with at the moment, and simply don't have the time for more.

But trust me when I say: The TLP is not a scary place. The people there might be a little bomb happy at times but as long as you put genuine effort in, the people are usually pretty nice and willing to help you improve. I'd encourage everyone who might be inexperienced in that area of the site to dive in at least once and see what goes on there, because we need to increase the overlap between the TLP and the TRS and the only way to do that is for people to step out of their comfort zone and try the new thing.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 20th 2020 at 10:21:22 AM

Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

I never sponsored a draft there, but have visted, voted, and even suggested examples quite a few times. But I don't think I'm alone here when saying I've never started a draft there.

Anyway, to stop derailment, I'll add this - if we don't sent it to the TLP, we can at least put it on the Trope Idea Salvage Yard.

I'd like to apologize for all this.

If no one offers to sponsor the TLP, Stern Old Judge should go to the Trope Idea Salvage Yard.

What I mean. TLP or Salvage Yard but cut either way.

Edited by Tabs on Jul 21st 2020 at 3:50:14 AM

Made a crowner as it's been two weeks of inactivity on this one. Hollering to hook.

Hooked per request.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Watch Night Court for a contrast, then. The lawyers are stern and the judge is younger and often silly (though not as silly as the defendants).

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Works for me. Voted up Stern Old Judge.

People seem to be forgetting the other stereotype, Black Woman Judge - which could be expanded/redefined to Token Minority In Authority Position or something similar with a catchier name.

Edited by Laukku on Aug 26th 2020 at 4:38:14 PM

Can that be covered by Black Boss Lady?

Thanks, that seems good enough.

I think the Standard Office Setting TLP might have been separate from Office's TRS thread; at the very least, Drop-In Landlord was launched after Landlord's TRS thread had already closed (the idea for Drop-In Landlord came up in Landlord's thread, but the draft wasn't part of the thread).

I'm not fond of the idea of tying TLP drafts to TRS threads unless it's absolutely necessary (such as if a trope is being split), since that adds to both the TRS backlog and the TLP backlog; at the very least, if a Chairs page is cut without a TLP draft being tied directly to the TRS thread, someone can still make the TLP draft at a later point in time (possibly with the idea being listed in the Salvage Yard between the TRS thread being closed and the TLP draft being started).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 26th 2020 at 10:30:29 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

It's been way over a month, and only one option is in the green. Can the crowner be called?

TRS Wick Cleaning

Calling in favor of retool. New name idea (Stern Old Judge) works.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report

I'm guessing we want a description rewrite?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.