Wall of Text cleanup

Is there any way of getting all the main points down in this Viewer Gender Confusion entry without it being so wordy? Also, the last paragraph seems complainy so that's the first thing to be removed.

• Linny the Guinea Pig from Wonder Pets!. Many have assumed that she was male due to the way she dresses (usually wearing clothes with masculine colors), not having any indicators of her gender, her name sounding masculine (the way the pets pronounce her name sounds like "Lenny", which also dosen't help). and her voice not sounding particularly feminine, at least for what was based off of a five year old. There was also the fact that the pets rarely used pronouns to describe each other. There have been a few episodes to showcase her gender, though whenever those episodes came about, it threw the viewers for a loop when they realized her gender, or just never caught on. Ironically, the voice actresses for the characters were all little girls when they started, and yet the one for Linny couldn't make her sound feminine to save her life.

EDIT: Here's a proposed rewrite of the entry:

• Wonder Pets!: Many were surprised to learn that Linny, the guinea pig leader of the team, was female, despite everything about her (her outfit, the pronunciation of her name, and her voice) all making her out to be male. It also dosen't help that pronouns are rarely used to describe the team. There were episodes that made her gender more obvious, such as the circus episode where she wore a ballet outfit, but many young viewers had either never saw these episodes or never caught on to it.

Edited by PlasmaPower on May 26th 2021 at 6:07:41 AM

I think the entry can end after "There was also the fact that the pets rarely used pronouns to describe each other." I don't even know what they mean by "episodes that showcase her gender."

EDIT: Rewrite looks good.

Edited by mightymewtron on May 26th 2021 at 5:10:25 AM

Bringing up this example from The Inhumans:

• Adored by the Network: Former Marvel Entertainment CEO Ike Perlmutter really liked these guys and really disliked the X-Men, for reasons that purely boiled down to legal disputes.
  • In The '90s, to bail itself out of a bankruptcy, Marvel sold its rights to its most popular characters (Fantastic Four, X-Men and Spider-Man being the most notable) to different studios on option^note To elaborate, 20th Century Fox owned the film rights to the X-Men — which, ironically enough, only remained at Fox because he and Avi Arad included a clause that would allow them to keep retaining the rights so long as they had movies based on the franchise in production back when the rights were being sold.. Marvel Studios was looking to regain access to the rights of old properties (as the vast majority of the licenses they sold went toward unproduced projects at the other studios, eventually reverting to Marvel over time), but Fox, quite rightly believing that they have made profitable adaptations with the X-Men Film Series insisted on holding on to the rights even in the face of the success of the Marvel Cinematic Universe which came into development years later. Sony Studios for similar reasons continued to hold on to Spider-Man but unlike the deal negotiated with Sony years later (as a result of avoiding the mistakes with Fox), the relations between Fox Studios and Marvel broke down and in response Perlmutter resolved to use Inhumans as a substitute if it meant he could de-value the X-Men brand by proxy (which would theoretically make a deal to regain the rights from Fox easier).^note In practice, the success of X-Men: Days of Future Past, Deadpool, Logan, and Deadpool 2 would have only made this harder, because the market share for movies will always exceed that of comics.
  • Perlmutter influenced the people working at Marvel Comics to promote the Inhumans as being "the next X-Men" whilst subsequently trying to minimize or demote the status of Mutants in the Marvel Universe, leading to the cancellation of multiple X-Men titles and the deaths of popular Mutant characters, as well as banning X-Men and Fantastic Four characters from appearing in merchandising, cartoons, and video games, most infamously their removal from Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite. A lot of X-Men fans were understandably pissed at this, and many of the Inhumans comics have struggled as a result of causing division within the Marvel fandom (along with generally being tougher concepts to sell). This would later be largely undone over the course of the All-New, All-Different Marvel and Marvel Legacy lines, which saw a return to increasing emphasis on the X-Men brand, though Inhumans comics would still get a good share of exposure.
  • Furthermore, it's been rumored that Perlmutter does not get along with Kevin Feige (who is a considerably more popular creative leader at Marvel than Perlmutter, who is at best a scapegoat and at worst a backlash-inducing Executive Meddler). Feige had interest in developing movies based on Black Panther and Captain Marvel, but Perlmutter was apparently apprehensive, allegedly because he had concerns that projects starring a nonwhite superhero or a female superhero wouldn't do well (which is supported by some off-color remarks he's made in the past). However, Perlmutter threw Feige a bone — if an Inhumans movie were added to the schedule and were included in an Avengers movie, then he'd let Feige risk making Black Panther and Captain Marvel movies. Feige and the people under him weren't particularly huge on the Inhumans property as a whole; however, they played along in order to get the movies that they wanted to make made, in spite of fans generally having less interest for an Inhumans movie than Black Panther and Captain Marvel. It should be noted that both Black Panther and Captain Marvel were actually necessary components to lead into Avengers: Infinity War and Avengers: Endgame, while Inhumans simply wasn't.
  • Once Feige was promoted to a position where he wouldn't have to answer to Perlmutter^note something that happened when Perlmutter tried firing Robert Downey Jr. from Captain America: Civil War, in spite of RDJ being Marvel's biggest star — this is something that obviously did not sit well with Disney, who sided with Feige and ultimately made it so that he would no longer have to answer to Perlmutter when making creative decisions, the Inhumans movie was greatly delayed on Marvel's schedule as two new projects (Spider-Man: Homecoming and Ant-Man and the Wasp) took its place. The movie was later removed from Marvel's schedule entirely, with the company's official intention supposedly being that Marvel Studios would make a movie after they'd wrapped up their 23-movie, 3-phase Myth Arc. Perlmutter, however, did not want to wait, and instead greenlit a miniseries for television with Jeph Loeb — itself a controversial move, since many fans believe that the comic could only be done justice with a cinematic budget. Matters were made even worse when Scott Buck — who was infamous for the Seasonal Rot on Dexter, along with the poor reception toward the first season of Iron Fist (2017) that Buck also led the charge on ahead of the release of Inhumans — was announced as the showrunner. The show itself, which was rushed to meet a deadline for an IMAX release, was met with disastrous reception upon its previews and its broadcast, and is regarded as being worse than the first season of Iron Fist (which, unlike the Inhumans show, has its fans). In a grand display of irony over Perlmutter's Inhumans and X-Men feud, Fox's television series The Gifted (which Perlmutter also greenlit) was met with a much more positive reception prior to its release, which was just after the television broadcast of the Inhumans pilot. Unlike Iron Fist, which at least has Critical Dissonance going for it with some of its audience and good ratings, and eventually got a much better received second season, Inhumans was treated as the MCU's first true Dork Age installment and had ratings that slipped significantly over the course of the series.
  • The end of this treatment would come at the end of 2017, when it was revealed that Disney would be buying Fox, and gaining the X-Men (and Fantastic Four, which were also targeted by Perlmutter at the time) movie rights in the process. Soon after, multiple Inhumans titles were Cut Short, the Inhumans returned to being occasional supporting characters in other comics, and the unpopular show was unceremoniously cancelled.

That definitely reads like "a long history of why Ike Perlmutter is the worst". The only part that seems relevant to being Adored by the Network is the second bullet.

The Ron the Death Eater entry for Sam on Cobra Kai is way too long for anyone to actually read, and I say this as someone who agrees with most of what it says:

• Sam has also gotten this treatment. To give a few examples:
  • In season 1, some fans have a tendency to blame Sam for reigniting Daniel and Johnny's rivalry through the hit and run on Johnny's car. This despite the fact that Sam was just a backseat passenger, Yasmine was driving (and was also texting), and Johnny was drunk and parked his car illegally in a way that it stuck out partly into the street. And it was Johnny's reaction (screaming and banging on the windows of a car full of teenage girls) that scared the girls into driving off in fear for their safety. Also, Sam did encourage Yasmine to go to the police after the fact (because it was her car that got totaled). While it was a mistake for Sam to not tell her parents about this (and she did face consequences for this when this caught up to her late in the season), she was not the only person at fault for what happened.
  • Sam's contributions in her relationship with Miguel falling apart in season 1 fall into this. While it was a mistake for Sam to hide her relationship with Miguel from her parents, she was also trying to protect the relationship in the only way she knew how. Daniel was so insistent that everyone in Cobra Kai was bad, there was no way he would've welcomed Miguel as Sam's boyfriend with open arms at that time. And to Sam's credit, she did decide to come clean the day she came home and Amanda grounded her (but Daniel was out with Johnny). And this is all before the fact that Miguel acted immaturely as a result of Johnny feeding him a biased version of events from 1984 that led him to distrust Sam. So this is a case of Daniel's rivalry with Johnny placing undue pressure on two teenagers who just wanted to be together.
  • Sam's rivalry with Tory. As noted under Draco in Leather Pants, there is a tendency in certain sections of the fandom for Sam's acts in the rivalry to be overemphasized while Tory's get downplayed. For instance, while Sam was ultimately wrong in her suspicions that Tory had stolen her mom's wallet, her suspicions were clearly not unfounded since Tory had bragged about stealing a bottle of vodka earlier and got snarky towards Sam when Sam told her to put it back. For another example, when Tory challenges Sam to the drinking contest at Moon's party, and Sam agrees to participate, some fans treat this as Sam seeking to prove she's better than Tory, when in reality she's standing up for herself after Tory had gone out of her way to repeatedly bully Sam and be snarky in all their encounters (ie. tripping her at the roller rink, kissing Miguel in front of her to mark her territory, calling her "princess who uses daddy's credit card") and just didn't want to back down.
  • In season 2, this extends to the inciting incident that leads to the school brawl, when Sam drunkenly kisses Miguel after finding out he returned Miyagi's Medal of Honor (which is noticed by Tory). Some fans solely blame Sam for the kiss, while overlooking how everyone else in the love square played a part as well: Miguel approached Sam, he kissed her back, and unlike Sam, he was sober, and still decided to cheat on Tory; Tory put herself in a lose-lose situation by offering herself as a rebound to Miguel knowing he wasn't over Sam, and chose to react disproportionately (when she should have gone to Miguel to find out where his heart was at); and Robby tried to keep his relationship with Sam going by purposely withholding information from her that he knew would lead to her changing her opinion of Miguel when she inevitably found out.
  • Sam has gotten a fair amount of heat for her "Everybody's got a sob story. Doesn't give you the right to be a bully" line in response to Miguel being defensive of Tory. The line is often treated as Sam putting down Tory because Tory isn't wealthy like Sam is. When in reality, Sam is judging Tory solely for her actions, as Tory has been nothing but a bully towards her (tripping her at the roller rink, the school fight, etc.). A lot of this appears to be a misconception that stems from Tory and Sam's first meeting, and Sam's reaction to Tory stealing a bottle of vodka from the beach club. Tory takes umbrage at being told not to steal, and while she later tells Miguel about why being judged for stealing is a sore spot for her, Sam never finds out about this, and because she never met Tory before that encounter at the beach club, she has no way of knowing Tory's financial situation.^note Given the club is a membership-only place, Sam likely assumed Tory was from another wealthy family that had just gotten a membership, when in reality Tory was only there as Aisha's guest Not to mention Sam has been shown to downplay and try to refrain from bragging about her wealth when she knows that someone has less than her, as seen in her scenes with Miguel and Robby.
  • In Season 3, Sam tends to get blamed for Demetri getting his arm broken in the arcade fight since she started the fight. While it is true that Miyagi-Do started the fight, and this goes against Miyagi-Do's teachings to strike first, Sam's decision was in response to Cobra Kai constantly antagonizing the Miyagi-Dos, beating them up, and then playing the victim whenever they got caught to avoid punishment. Not to mention Demetri and the other Miyagi-Dos chose of their own accord to show up when Sam summoned them. Ultimately, Hawk is the only person to blame for breaking Demetri's arm, and it's not like Sam was just standing around doing nothing when that happened, as she was having a panic attack at the sound of Tory's voice. And she feels awful afterwards about being unable to help Demetri in that moment.

The current bio on the Creator.John Kricfalusi page is a big wall of text (i.e. the recent controversies are five paragraphs long) and may need to be trimmed down. Any ideas?

Edited by gjjones on Jun 3rd 2021 at 1:44:33 PM

We keep bringing it up but can't figure out how to trim it. I'm not familiar with the guy outside of the controversies so IDK how much help I'll be.

I'm going to try and trim it down.

The description for Dr. Health'nstein's Body Fun is extremely long. Is it necessary to have a paragraph on each segment?

Edited by Walkinshadows on Jun 7th 2021 at 11:31:02 AM

From GenreTurningPoint.Music:

• Almost from the moment of her mainstream breakthrough in 2008, music journalists and fans pegged Lady Gaga as a potentially revolutionary force within pop music, and while it can sometimes be difficult to discern the reality from the hype of her fanbase, few will argue that this prediction wasn't borne out in some manner over the next decade. Even as sounds and trends changed with time and her own career had its ups and downs, her shadow loomed long over the pop music landscape of the 2010s. Hayden Manners, writing for Nylon, said that pop music in the 21st century can be divided into "Before Gaga (BG) and After Gaga (AG)" periods, such was the magnitude of the changes she brought to the genre.
  • The most immediate impact that Gaga had was to lead the charge in the late '00s on a revival of Synth-Pop, but in the long term, she's also been credited with raising the standards of artistry within pop music, a genre that, in 2008, had long been seen as Guilty Pleasures at best and a musical wasteland at worst. After Gaga hit it big, music critics could no longer dismiss pop or pretend to be above it, and as such, her rise is often credited with the mainstream breakthrough of "poptimism", a greater esteem for pop within the music world (a movement that had already been bubbling for much of the '00s as part of a growing backlash against the music press' preoccupation with rock music). After Gaga, pop stars were seen as auteurs just like rock stars were — an image that the flamboyant Gaga actively cultivated for herself right out of the gate. Most notably, Gaga's rise has been credited by music critics for Taylor Swift jumping from country to pop on her album 1989 (although a lot of country fans have argued that her discography was already pop-leaning and the switch simply made it official) and still retaining the critical success she had prior. The 2018 remake of A Star is Born, which starred Gaga, heavily mined this shift for its narrative arc, as Gaga's character Ally eclipses Bradley Cooper's aging rock legend Jackson Maine in terms of stardom.
  • She also played a key role in mainstreaming "gay idols", which had an impact far beyond music that stretched into the broader culture and politics. While many pop stars in the past have had LGBT Fanbases, Gaga openly flaunted her camp and bisexuality, playing to her queer fans in a way that not even Madonna could've gotten away with twenty years prior. In doing so, she also codified the pop singer as activist, breaking from the apolitical image of mainstream pop stars in the '90s and '00s and using her music and stardom as a platform to discuss social and cultural issues — an attitude that even many of the artists who pushed back against her electropop sound would embrace in some form or another.

From Recap.RWBYV 6 E 3 The Lost Fable:

• Slowly Slipping Into Evil: Salem's initial actions against the gods were motivated by genuine grief over her lost love, and by hiding the fact she planned to ask the God of Darkness if the God of Light turned her down, and that she had asked the God of Darkness second instead of first, she accidentally almost turns the brothers against each other. After being punished with immortality, she realises that the gods could only have made that mistake if they were fallible. As a result, she incites humanity to rebel against the gods in the hope of either ending her curse or making them suffer. She achieves neither and the gods destroy humanity, leaving her to walk the world alone for so long that she tries to end her life by falling into the God of Darkness's annihilation pools; it instead corrupts her into a being of pure destruction. After spending countless years alone, the newly returned humanity only know of her as a witch, an evil sorceress whom commands the beasts and Grimm but who avoids humanity and lives in isolation. When her lost love is reincarnated with a mission to unite humanity, she suggests they guide humanity by passing themselves off as gods. However, she ends up deciding to kill humans who won't convert and then plans to destroy humanity and replace them with her own descendants upon discovering that her children can use magic. When Ozma tries to take his children away from from, they fight to death, accidentally killing their children in the process. This triggers the bitter enmity that has existed between them until this day, and her determination to divide and destroy humanity just to see him burn.

We might need to trim this down. Thoughts?

I would like to trim down this Wall of Text on Your Turn to Die. Currently it is describing multiple moments in excessive detail. Not only are a lot of these details not necessary for the example, but I believe only the first "moment" here counts as this trope, as the other moments described are just escalating the horror/tension already established. The "true genre revealing itself" statement, in particular, doesn't make sense to me keeping in mind everything the player is already said to have seen at that point.

• Establishing Series Moment: Your Turn To Die puts a gruesome end to any false assumptions of what one can think it'd be by virtue of Mishima, Joe and Kai's deaths within Chapter 1, and the consequences of it. Sue Miley, after becoming reassembled, asks everyone to participate in a practice version of the Main Game, to which Sue Miley dispels the fears that it'll turn out lethal because it's just that: a practice Main Game. She, of course, is lying, and because nobody bothered to turn around to see the message on the door stating the contrary, Mishima is killed by having his is severed by virtue of his collar turning white hot and burning through the flesh completely. Nao and Kanna, having both connected with Mishima earlier, both completely flip out and go into full on panic mode, before the aftermath of Mishima's execution is rubbed into both girls' faces by a smug Sue Miley. And as if that wasn't enough, the real first Main Game subsequently kills off Sacrificial Lions Joe Tazuna and Kai Satou - the former death, especially in the cruelty of impaling Joe and draining his blood before he dies from shock, was given a nasty Hope Spot that tried to - and succeeded - at breaking Sara and gave her acute emotional trauma from the incident, with Sue Miley once again rubbing it in Sara's face that she prolonged Joe's death than actually helped him, further crushing her. As for Kai, he refuses to meet the same fate and and commits suicide before Sue Miley could kill him next. And from then onwards, the game's true genre reveals itself, cutting to a seemingly innocent dream of Joe asking Sara for homework... before Joe breaking the dream's immersion to remind Sara he's dead, and proceed to push it into her face that it's all her fault why he died, gradually breaking down Sara more and more until he becomes a demonic representation of Sara's own guilt and commits a nasty Jump Scare in the process. And if that wasn't enough, the immediate aftermath has Sara hallucinate blood pouring into the room she found herself in while the corpses of all three boys who died lied lifeless and/or dismembered from one another, triggered yet another Freak Out from Sara. Yep, this is what you're in for, folks. Enjoy the show!

This is my proposed version

• Establishing Series Moment: Your Turn To Die's brightly colored character art and backgrounds are at odds for a story about a death game, and the story begins tamely with the characters all coming to be comfortable with each other. This is brought to a gruesome end by Mishima's death. The floor master Sue Miley asks everyone to participate in a practice version of the Main Game and assures everyone that this one won't be lethal. Everyone decides to vote for themselves just in case. Then it's revealed that Mishima got the most votes, and that Sue Miley was lying. As the first to be executed, Mishima is decapitated by virtue of his collar turning white hot and burning through his neck. The characters' trauma and horror from this is played completely straight while the player is left to wonder who voted for Mishima, the practice game thus setting the tone for the cruel executions and backstabbing to come.

"These segments can include creating healthy meals, setting up an exercise routine for you character, answering a multiple-choice quiz on health, or a boss battle."

I think the wall of text on Doctor Healthnstien can be reduced to this, idk if there's any more important info I'm missing.

The music-related pages in general tend to attract a lot of text walls, and the process of trimming down as many of my prior paragraph-length points as I could find made it pretty obvious how unnecessary it all is. In relation to the Gaga point specifically, you could probably truncate that essay to this:

• Since her 2008 breakthrough, Lady Gaga has often been described by analysts as significantly redefining the popular music landscape. Among other things, her work was credited with renewing mainstream interest in Synth-Pop, legitimizing pop as an art form, and increasing the mainstream acceptance of both openly LGBT+ and politically active celebrities.

Thanks, I've swapped the example.

The whole page needs work, but I think it would work best to tackle it a little bit at a time. Thanks for the help.

Not a problem; I'm glad to be of assistance.

Just to clarify though, when I said "music-related pages," I wasn't just referring to Genre Turning Point, I was speaking about the wiki as a whole. Still, as you said, one must eat the elephant in pieces rather than trying to swallow it in one bite.

I wasn't saying you were referring to that page—I agree that music pages on the wiki tend to be Wall of Text magnets.

I was just saying that that specific page needs a lot of work, but that I don't have enough time to knock it all out at once, so thanks for the help.

Ah, thanks for clarifying, and again, glad to be of service.

I've cut down the John K biography to something borderline readable. Mostly I just stuck to the highlights of his career and tossed out the small stuff.

It would be best to replace the Canada Eh link in Chicoutimi, Quebec (in the second paragraph) to Useful Notes/Canada. Canada Eh is about Canadian stereotypes.

It would also be good to find a place to link Animated Shock Comedy in John K.'s bio.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jun 18th 2021 at 10:34:21 AM

Looks good, barring what said.

Agreed.

Bumping as it's been a few days, does my rewrite for Your Turn to Die look alright?

Looks good to me

Found this on Shadow and Bone:

• Author's Saving Throw:
  • In the books, Mal was easily the biggest Base Breaker of the entire Grishaverse. Many books readers found the show's take on him to be a vast improvement by removing his womanizing ways, his distrust of Alina's powers, and his lack of appreciation for her. These faults were never treated as something Mal needed to work on and he's Easily Forgiven for all of them, and some would argue book!Mal never truly appreciates her. The show makes him far more supportive of her in general, has him politely refuse Zoya's proposition, and removes a line from the book where he all but calls Alina a whore. In addition, viewers get to see his side of the story rather than sticking purely with Alina's viewpoint and can thus understand what he's had to endure in his struggle to find her again. And it's clear from the word "go" that their feelings for each other are mutual and someone just needs to make a move, whereas in the book Mal didn't appreciate Alina until it was too late. It also helps that Jessie Mei Li and Archie Renaux have some decent chemistry together. Though some book fans are optimistic and greatly prefer the show's take on Mal, some are still waiting for season two to adapt Siege and Storm to see what happens, as that was the book where Mal's worst actions happen. But so far, book readers generally prefer the Mal of the show to the Mal of the books.