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    Original post 
Note: This thread was proposed by amathieu13.

Four-Element Ensemble is meant to be about a group of four/five people in which each person is associated (either with Elemental Powers or Elemental Motifs) with a different classical element. Given that which elements get included into the classical elements can differ, I initially did a wick check to see usage / see if those differences are being reflected in examples: Sandbox.Four Element Ensemble. Instead of variation, I found quite a bit of misuse. Here's the top line summary out of 50 wicks:

  • Correct: 18 (36%)
    • Earth Wind Air Fire (EWAF): 16
    • EWAF + one other: 2
  • Misuse/Shoehorn: 25 (50%)
  • Ambiguous: 4
  • ZCE: 3

Misuse and shoehorn fell into one of these groups (with some examples):

  1. people applying this to talk about the classical elements as a broad theme in general or as a magic system (which would now be covered under Natural Elements)
    • Angels & Demons: The theme of the four elements is used in the murders of four Catholic Cardinals and in the clues to the location of the Illuminati's meeting place.
  2. people using any natural element and not those that are the classical ones (fire, water, earth, air, sometimes Element No. 5)
  3. people applying a reading of the four elements when it doesn't exist in the text.
    • Home Alone 3: This may be completely unintentional, but the Amusing Injuries the four spies suffer on the film cover are related to the four elements. Unger is electrocuted, which makes his suit (and farts) burn (fire); Jernigan is ice-covered after falling into a frozen pool (water); Alice is covered in dirt after several incidents in mud (earth); and Beaupre has black paint in his face, coming from a gas-powered spray can (air).
  4. people cherrypicking out of larger groups
    • The Avengers (2012): A subtle one:
      • Iron Man is surrounded by fire in the first movie (captured in the desert, spends time in a cave lit by flames and forges his armor in the heat), fires and manufactures weapons, gets blasted through many flaming explosions, has a lit fireplace constantly in the background of his Malibu house, and paints his costume red and gold.
      • Captain America: The First Avenger has water and ice as his motifs; discovered frozen in ice, created via injection with blue liquid, film subtly tinted blue with scenes of rain and shots of snowy mountains throughout, chases a starter villain into the water in his first scene as Captain America, falls into the ocean at the end of the sequel, and his costume is colored primarily blue.
      • Thor naturally has air and thunder, being the God of it and all. In addition, he lives in the elevated land of Asgard, first arrives in a tornado-like thunderstorm, flies by twirling his hammer to create a gust of wind, first appears in The Avengers flying through the sky, onto an airplane; can summon his hammer through the air, wears a winged helmet, and his costume is colored grey.
      • The Incredible Hulk and earth; not only are the Hulk’s powers derived from physical strength, commonly associated with earth, but he's also frequently underground, being grounded or on the run in verdant lands, and is colored green.

Note that there was a TRS thread over a decade ago that didn't go anywhere in which people were confused even then whether this applied to just people or the grouping of the four elements in general.


Options:
  • clarify the description that this is limited to teams, clean up examples and remove misuse. I think part of the issue was that Natural Elements didn't exist until a couple of weeks ago, which lead to people shoehorning examples. Also consider renaming to Classical Element Ensemble to hammer in the point that it's not just any four elements that can count and that it is not necessarily limited to four elements, if the work includes Element No. 5
  • merge into Natural Elements, which it is a subtrope of, since Four-Element Ensemble is already being used to cover "work makes use of the classical elements in some way" and "work makes use of the classical elements as a character group motif"
  • disambig between Natural Elements, Elemental Powers, Elemental Motifs

Ensemble tropes are somewhat notorious for being shoehorn and misuse magnets, which is why I put the merge and disambig options up. That said, I think a clean up here could work. I don't really have a strong preference towards any of the three options though.

Wick check:

Wick Check for Four-Element Ensemble.

Definition: A group is made up of characters who correlate to the four (sometimes five) Classical Elements either with Elemental Powers or Elemental Motifs.

Wicks 50

  • Correct: 18 (36%)
    • Earth Wind Air Fire (EWAF): 16
    • EWAF + one other: 2
  • Misuse/Shoehorn: 25 (50%)
  • Ambiguous: 4
  • ZCE: 3


    correct 

EWAF

  • The Ninja Kids: As if one couldn't tell by their ninja magic. Hanzo is water, Sasuke is wind, Akane is fire and Genta is earth.
  • Final Fantasy IX: The Chaos Guardians. A Four-Element Ensemble of bosses, each with their own elemental shrine in several cool locations; Kraken's is in a swirling whirlpool, Maliris in a volcano, Tiamat behind a tornado and Lich underground in a perpetual earthquake. One gets the impression they'd be unstoppable if they all fought together.
  • The Altered Adventure: The Four Guardians of Altered who wield the elemental abilities Air, Earth, Water, and Fire.
  • Forgotten Realms: The Four-Element Ensemble of deities representing fire, water, wind, and earth are each locked in battle with the one representing their opposite element.
  • Fight For The Core: Drew (water), Taso (earth), Nat (fire), and Jason (wind).
  • Xuan Yuan Sword EX: The Gate Of Firmament: The four playable characters have wind, water, fire and earth as their respective elements.
  • Earth and Sky: Austin is earth and Emily is air; "Luminous Horizon" adds their parents, Scott and Claire, as fire and water respectively.
  • Serwa Boateng: Asase Yaa gives Serwa's friends the powers of the four elements. Mateo is air, Gavin is water, Roxy is earth, and Eunju is fire.
  • The Craft: Sarah represents Earth - as the most grounded and mature of the girls. Bonnie represents Fire - and she was once burned by one. Rochelle represents Water - she's an avid swimmer. Nancy represents Air - she is wild and unpredictable.
  • Saga (Metroid): Arne, Samus, Spire, and Armaud represent Air, Water, Fire, and Earth respectively.
  • Marvel Comics #1000: Eternity presents Marvel Comics' first four heroes — The Human Torch (fire), Namor (water), Ka-Zar (earth), and The Angel (air) — as representatives of the elements.
  • Samurai Pizza Cats: The Rescue Team: General Catton is fire, Bat Cat is air, Meowzma is earth, and Spritz is water.
  • Bakuten Shoot Beyblade Secondary: Ralf/Griffolyon are air, Johnny/Salamalyon are fire, Olivier/Unicolyon are earth, and Giancarlo/Amphilyon are water.
  • Fairy Tail – Official Guilds: Each member uses magic based on one of the four classical Western elements: Air (Aria), Water (Juvia), Earth (Sol), and Fire (Totomaru).
  • Homestuck: Kids:
    • John's element is wind. His aspect is Breath, the aspect of wind powers and freedom. The apple that was his cruxite artefact tends to be harvested in the fall, the windiest of seasons. His dad's main feature is his smoking pipe. The day he was introduced was a nice, windy day. Pipes are also to be found all over his planet, and his denizen is Typheus, the lord of winds.
    • Rose's element is water. Her planet is the Land of Light and Rain, but her former house was based off Fallingwater and the day of her introduction was in a torrential downpour of rain. Her mom has a drinking problem, as her main feature are her lips. Rose's artefact is a bottle — usually made from glass, which comes from sand at the beach. Bottles are also used for christening new vessels such as a boat. Her denizen is Cetus, the water monster, and her meteor killed off all water life. Her cat, Jaspers, tends to hate water. Her color resembles the deep sea, and her interests are of the Eldritch Abomination kind, who were revered to rest in the deepest sea.
    • Dave's element is fire. The egg that was his artefact needed time and warmth to hatch, referring to his planet name. His introduction day was hot and sultry, and he often refers rapping to as 'throwing down sick fires'. His Bro's main feature are his shades, as light is a source which allows us to see. Bro also has multiple posters in his room — lust and desire is often linked to fire, too. His denizen is Hephaestus, the forging god.
    • Jade's element is earth. She grows all of her food in a garden, and her chumhandle reflects this. Her artefact is probably the most obvious tie to earth. Piñatas are usually made from natural materials, and when they drop, they fall on the ground. Her Grandpa was a traveler. Bec's feature are ears, as in 'keeping an ear to the ground' and dogs like to dig in the earth. The day of her introduction was pretty nice and sunny, allowing plants to grow. Her name is a reference to a semiprecious stone as well, and her denizen is Echidna — the mother of all monsters who was allowed to bare in a cave.
  • Masou Kishin:

EWAF + one other

  • Disk Mania: Five Element Ensemble:
    • Fred: Air
    • Daphne: Fire
    • Shaggy: Water
    • Velma: Earth
    • Scooby: Heart
  • Survivors of the Calamity: Champions of Hyrule — The Divine Beasts: Ruta, Naboris, Medoh, and Rudania correspond to water, earth (and electricity), air, and fire. Eponia's element is stated as nature but never demonstrated.

     Misuse/Shoehorn 
  • The Beatles: Mirroring the four universal aspects which make up the Human Spirit (Body, Mind, Heart, and Soul). composed entirely of "sometimes" elementals
    • Philosophical and reflective thinker "quiet one" George being Air (the Mind)
    • Easy-going and emotional mediator "happy-go-lucky one" Ringo being Water (the Heart)
    • Opinionated and passionate idealist "outspoken one" John being Fire (the Soul)
    • Down-to-earth and dependable charmer "cute one" Paul being Earth (the Body)
  • The Owl House S2E2 "Escaping Expulsion" — Functional Magic: When Luz admits to only being able to find the four glyphs (Four-Element Ensemble Light, Fire, Ice, and Plant), King theorizes that all other magical disciplines (Abominations, Bard, Healing, etc.) are just different combinations of those four primary magics implemented in certain ways. — not about a group of people and not limited to the classical elements
  • Adventure Time S 7 E 33 Elemental — Callback: The Four-Element Ensemble (Ice, Fire, Candy, Slime) introduced in "Evergreen" returns and its significance is expanded. — not limited to the classical elements.
  • The Air Ride Series: Four of the Miss Robot models make up one of these. There's Playing with Fire 17.0., An Ice Person 18.0., Shock and Awe 19.0., and Poisonous Person 20.0. — There are 23 models in total and this is cherrypicking 4
  • Fushigi Yuugi: Genbu Kaiden: The first four are the resident Four-Element Ensemble. the group is larger than just the ones selectec
  • The Legend of Heroes: Trails from Zero and Trails to Azure: While there are seven elements, the final three become subject to the same mechanics regarding elemental weaknesses and resistances only in some instances. It's also highly relevant to the plot when this happens. The Crois family was attempting to recreate the lost Sept-Terion 'Demiourgos' which goverened Mirage. What they got was the 'Sept-Terrion of Zero', all three higher elements in one. The work involved in creating that power led to the weirdness with the higher elements.
  • Ring Fit Adventure: Played with; the player's moves are classified into different exercise types — arms, legs and thighs, core (torso), and yoga. Enemies are more vulnerable to certain types, so using the correct exercise for each encounter is a key skill. — none of the elements are present
  • Sucker Punch: Downplayed but it's there for each of the four fantasies. The temple fantasy has a battle that takes place in a snowstorm (Water). The WWI fantasy takes place in the trenches (Earth). The castle fantasy involves fending off a dragon (Fire), not to mention the girls needing something that makes Fire. The final fantasy involves a train on a raised platform amid clouds and mist (Air) - not to mention the girls needing to escape by helicopter and trouble arising when a jet pack doesn't work. — this isn't about a group
  • Go! Princess Pretty Cure: By adding the fiery Cure Scarlet into the Land, Sea, Sky Precure formation. — unclear whether the work adds Cure scarlet into the main group or if that's just the example writer shoehorning it in
  • Bloons Tower Defense: The first 4 bosses are associated with one of the four classical elements. The fifth boss, Lych, is likely themed after darkness. — this isn't about a defined group
  • Avatar: The Last Airbender - Team Avatar: The four benders: Aang (Air), Katara (Water), Toph (Earth) and Zuko (Fire). Lampshaded by Sokka. "Team Avatar is back! [series of dramatic zooms] Air! Water! Earth! Fire! [grabs some large leaves for himself and Suki] Fan and sword!" — the team is larger than the four and has always included Sokka
  • Brave Frontier Special Holiday Units: Her passive skills increase the Attack of Fire, Water, Earth and Thunder units. And as Sanguine Hood, she can apply the four elements to the squad with her Super Brave Burst. — this isn't about a team
  • Brave Frontier Units Part 13: He can bestow all four primary elements to the party with his Super Brave Burst. — This isn't about a team
  • Cardcaptor Sakura: There's a card for each natural element; Windy, Watery, Firey and Earthy. — This isn't about a team
  • Cowboy Bebop: Bebop Crew: Where are the other two elements?
    • Not that it's quite on the level of a superpower, but Spike's associated element is water. As he says himself:
    Spike: Water can take any form. It drifts without effort one moment, then pounds down in a torrent the very next.
    • As with Spike, it's not on the level of an actual superpower, but he's associated with earth. He gardens (which involves working with soil) and Laughing Bull refers to him as "Running Rock"
  • Final Fantasy IX Scars Of Terra - Summon Magic: Belias, Cúchulainn, Famfrit and Hashmal these are cherrypicked from a larger roster of summons
  • Angels & Demons: The theme of the four elements is used in the murders of four Catholic Cardinals and in the clues to the location of the Illuminati's meeting place. — not about a group of people
  • Magu-chan: God of DestructionElemental Powers: Can use magic of the (Four-Element Ensemble) four attributes of fire, water, wind, and lightning. — not about a group of people
  • Marvel: Avengers Academy: Event Students: All the event's non-premium unlockable characters can get "Elemental" costumes that aid in combat. — not about a group of people
  • Negima: Cosmo Entelecheia: In every generation, each construct model controls one of the primary four elements of earth, wind/lightning, fire and water/ice. Primum and Fate/Tertium are earth mages, Secundum and Quintum are wind/lightning mages, Quartum and Nii are fire mages, Sextum and Septendecim are water/ice mages. — not about a group that actually functions as a group
  • Lobotomy Corporation Ordeals: The God Delusion can use all four elements to attack, including two arm portals respectively doing red or black damage, a portal summoning a large tentacle that does white damage, and a large eye that moves from hallway to hallway and does pale damage. — not about a group of people
  • Samurai Jack - Enemies - The Goddess of the Water and Elementals: Water, Earth, Wind, and Fire. — not about a group of people
  • Tales of Destiny: As the 'holy' Swordian he has some control over the main four elements — not about a group of people
  • Brave Frontier Special Units: Their Leader Skill raise HP, Attack and Recovery of all allies of the Fire, Water, Earth and Thunder elements. — not about a group of people
  • Monster Sanctuary: Every attack falls under one of the classical elements, or is Non-Elemental. Fire is self-explanatory, but water encompasses ice, earth encompasses plants and poison, and air encompasses electricity. — not about a group of people

     Ambiguous 
  • Fantastic Four: Frequently lampshaded in discussions about the team. The Human Torch controls fire, the Thing is seemingly made of stone, Mr. Fantastic flows like water, and the Invisible Woman becomes invisible like air. — this one's actually ambiguous. the team doesn't have elemental powers, but if it's discussed in universe then it would count. It's just not clear if the "discussions" are in or out of universe
  • Rebelde Way: this could fit, could be a shoehorn depending on how much this is actually evoked as an Elemental Motif
    • Mia is Air; sweet, flighty, and sometimes unaware of the reality surrounding her.
    • Marizza is Fire; the most fiery and passionate of the group, and tends to do reckless choices based on her first impressions.
    • Manuel can overlap with fire at his worst, but at his best he's Earth: mature, level-headed and grounded enough to understand his surroundings.
    • Pablo is Water: He changes the most during the course of the series, much like water, which can change shape depending on its circumstances and learns to adapt to new situations. His irises are also a bright blue shade, similar to water. (Makes a bit of a funny Fire/Water Juxtaposition once he gets together with Marizza).
  • EDENS ZERO: Crew of Edens Zero: Both start out as enemies of the Edens Zero crew (Jinn/Kris as a mercenary from Rogue Out before going solo, and Sylph/Kleene as one of the Element 4), but take their side when the crew prove themselves willing to help them with their troubles.
  • Sekirei - Izumo Inn: There are four elemental-type Sekirei in Minato's harem, each controlling one of the four primary elements of water (Tsukiumi), wind (Kazehana), fire (Homura/Kagari), and earth/plants (Kusano). — could be a shoehorn since the harem is larger than them, but it doesn't say if these 4 interact a lot

     ZCE 

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 25th 2023 at 6:58:04 AM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#1: Jun 13th 2023 at 4:54:10 AM

To-do list:

    Original post 
Note: This thread was proposed by amathieu13.

Four-Element Ensemble is meant to be about a group of four/five people in which each person is associated (either with Elemental Powers or Elemental Motifs) with a different classical element. Given that which elements get included into the classical elements can differ, I initially did a wick check to see usage / see if those differences are being reflected in examples: Sandbox.Four Element Ensemble. Instead of variation, I found quite a bit of misuse. Here's the top line summary out of 50 wicks:

  • Correct: 18 (36%)
    • Earth Wind Air Fire (EWAF): 16
    • EWAF + one other: 2
  • Misuse/Shoehorn: 25 (50%)
  • Ambiguous: 4
  • ZCE: 3

Misuse and shoehorn fell into one of these groups (with some examples):

  1. people applying this to talk about the classical elements as a broad theme in general or as a magic system (which would now be covered under Natural Elements)
    • Angels & Demons: The theme of the four elements is used in the murders of four Catholic Cardinals and in the clues to the location of the Illuminati's meeting place.
  2. people using any natural element and not those that are the classical ones (fire, water, earth, air, sometimes Element No. 5)
  3. people applying a reading of the four elements when it doesn't exist in the text.
    • Home Alone 3: This may be completely unintentional, but the Amusing Injuries the four spies suffer on the film cover are related to the four elements. Unger is electrocuted, which makes his suit (and farts) burn (fire); Jernigan is ice-covered after falling into a frozen pool (water); Alice is covered in dirt after several incidents in mud (earth); and Beaupre has black paint in his face, coming from a gas-powered spray can (air).
  4. people cherrypicking out of larger groups
    • The Avengers (2012): A subtle one:
      • Iron Man is surrounded by fire in the first movie (captured in the desert, spends time in a cave lit by flames and forges his armor in the heat), fires and manufactures weapons, gets blasted through many flaming explosions, has a lit fireplace constantly in the background of his Malibu house, and paints his costume red and gold.
      • Captain America: The First Avenger has water and ice as his motifs; discovered frozen in ice, created via injection with blue liquid, film subtly tinted blue with scenes of rain and shots of snowy mountains throughout, chases a starter villain into the water in his first scene as Captain America, falls into the ocean at the end of the sequel, and his costume is colored primarily blue.
      • Thor naturally has air and thunder, being the God of it and all. In addition, he lives in the elevated land of Asgard, first arrives in a tornado-like thunderstorm, flies by twirling his hammer to create a gust of wind, first appears in The Avengers flying through the sky, onto an airplane; can summon his hammer through the air, wears a winged helmet, and his costume is colored grey.
      • The Incredible Hulk and earth; not only are the Hulk’s powers derived from physical strength, commonly associated with earth, but he's also frequently underground, being grounded or on the run in verdant lands, and is colored green.

Note that there was a TRS thread over a decade ago that didn't go anywhere in which people were confused even then whether this applied to just people or the grouping of the four elements in general.


Options:
  • clarify the description that this is limited to teams, clean up examples and remove misuse. I think part of the issue was that Natural Elements didn't exist until a couple of weeks ago, which lead to people shoehorning examples. Also consider renaming to Classical Element Ensemble to hammer in the point that it's not just any four elements that can count and that it is not necessarily limited to four elements, if the work includes Element No. 5
  • merge into Natural Elements, which it is a subtrope of, since Four-Element Ensemble is already being used to cover "work makes use of the classical elements in some way" and "work makes use of the classical elements as a character group motif"
  • disambig between Natural Elements, Elemental Powers, Elemental Motifs

Ensemble tropes are somewhat notorious for being shoehorn and misuse magnets, which is why I put the merge and disambig options up. That said, I think a clean up here could work. I don't really have a strong preference towards any of the three options though.

Wick check:

Wick Check for Four-Element Ensemble.

Definition: A group is made up of characters who correlate to the four (sometimes five) Classical Elements either with Elemental Powers or Elemental Motifs.

Wicks 50

  • Correct: 18 (36%)
    • Earth Wind Air Fire (EWAF): 16
    • EWAF + one other: 2
  • Misuse/Shoehorn: 25 (50%)
  • Ambiguous: 4
  • ZCE: 3


    correct 

EWAF

  • The Ninja Kids: As if one couldn't tell by their ninja magic. Hanzo is water, Sasuke is wind, Akane is fire and Genta is earth.
  • Final Fantasy IX: The Chaos Guardians. A Four-Element Ensemble of bosses, each with their own elemental shrine in several cool locations; Kraken's is in a swirling whirlpool, Maliris in a volcano, Tiamat behind a tornado and Lich underground in a perpetual earthquake. One gets the impression they'd be unstoppable if they all fought together.
  • The Altered Adventure: The Four Guardians of Altered who wield the elemental abilities Air, Earth, Water, and Fire.
  • Forgotten Realms: The Four-Element Ensemble of deities representing fire, water, wind, and earth are each locked in battle with the one representing their opposite element.
  • Fight For The Core: Drew (water), Taso (earth), Nat (fire), and Jason (wind).
  • Xuan Yuan Sword EX: The Gate Of Firmament: The four playable characters have wind, water, fire and earth as their respective elements.
  • Earth and Sky: Austin is earth and Emily is air; "Luminous Horizon" adds their parents, Scott and Claire, as fire and water respectively.
  • Serwa Boateng: Asase Yaa gives Serwa's friends the powers of the four elements. Mateo is air, Gavin is water, Roxy is earth, and Eunju is fire.
  • The Craft: Sarah represents Earth - as the most grounded and mature of the girls. Bonnie represents Fire - and she was once burned by one. Rochelle represents Water - she's an avid swimmer. Nancy represents Air - she is wild and unpredictable.
  • Saga (Metroid): Arne, Samus, Spire, and Armaud represent Air, Water, Fire, and Earth respectively.
  • Marvel Comics #1000: Eternity presents Marvel Comics' first four heroes — The Human Torch (fire), Namor (water), Ka-Zar (earth), and The Angel (air) — as representatives of the elements.
  • Samurai Pizza Cats: The Rescue Team: General Catton is fire, Bat Cat is air, Meowzma is earth, and Spritz is water.
  • Bakuten Shoot Beyblade Secondary: Ralf/Griffolyon are air, Johnny/Salamalyon are fire, Olivier/Unicolyon are earth, and Giancarlo/Amphilyon are water.
  • Fairy Tail – Official Guilds: Each member uses magic based on one of the four classical Western elements: Air (Aria), Water (Juvia), Earth (Sol), and Fire (Totomaru).
  • Homestuck: Kids:
    • John's element is wind. His aspect is Breath, the aspect of wind powers and freedom. The apple that was his cruxite artefact tends to be harvested in the fall, the windiest of seasons. His dad's main feature is his smoking pipe. The day he was introduced was a nice, windy day. Pipes are also to be found all over his planet, and his denizen is Typheus, the lord of winds.
    • Rose's element is water. Her planet is the Land of Light and Rain, but her former house was based off Fallingwater and the day of her introduction was in a torrential downpour of rain. Her mom has a drinking problem, as her main feature are her lips. Rose's artefact is a bottle — usually made from glass, which comes from sand at the beach. Bottles are also used for christening new vessels such as a boat. Her denizen is Cetus, the water monster, and her meteor killed off all water life. Her cat, Jaspers, tends to hate water. Her color resembles the deep sea, and her interests are of the Eldritch Abomination kind, who were revered to rest in the deepest sea.
    • Dave's element is fire. The egg that was his artefact needed time and warmth to hatch, referring to his planet name. His introduction day was hot and sultry, and he often refers rapping to as 'throwing down sick fires'. His Bro's main feature are his shades, as light is a source which allows us to see. Bro also has multiple posters in his room — lust and desire is often linked to fire, too. His denizen is Hephaestus, the forging god.
    • Jade's element is earth. She grows all of her food in a garden, and her chumhandle reflects this. Her artefact is probably the most obvious tie to earth. Piñatas are usually made from natural materials, and when they drop, they fall on the ground. Her Grandpa was a traveler. Bec's feature are ears, as in 'keeping an ear to the ground' and dogs like to dig in the earth. The day of her introduction was pretty nice and sunny, allowing plants to grow. Her name is a reference to a semiprecious stone as well, and her denizen is Echidna — the mother of all monsters who was allowed to bare in a cave.
  • Masou Kishin:

EWAF + one other

  • Disk Mania: Five Element Ensemble:
    • Fred: Air
    • Daphne: Fire
    • Shaggy: Water
    • Velma: Earth
    • Scooby: Heart
  • Survivors of the Calamity: Champions of Hyrule — The Divine Beasts: Ruta, Naboris, Medoh, and Rudania correspond to water, earth (and electricity), air, and fire. Eponia's element is stated as nature but never demonstrated.

     Misuse/Shoehorn 
  • The Beatles: Mirroring the four universal aspects which make up the Human Spirit (Body, Mind, Heart, and Soul). composed entirely of "sometimes" elementals
    • Philosophical and reflective thinker "quiet one" George being Air (the Mind)
    • Easy-going and emotional mediator "happy-go-lucky one" Ringo being Water (the Heart)
    • Opinionated and passionate idealist "outspoken one" John being Fire (the Soul)
    • Down-to-earth and dependable charmer "cute one" Paul being Earth (the Body)
  • The Owl House S2E2 "Escaping Expulsion" — Functional Magic: When Luz admits to only being able to find the four glyphs (Four-Element Ensemble Light, Fire, Ice, and Plant), King theorizes that all other magical disciplines (Abominations, Bard, Healing, etc.) are just different combinations of those four primary magics implemented in certain ways. — not about a group of people and not limited to the classical elements
  • Adventure Time S 7 E 33 Elemental — Callback: The Four-Element Ensemble (Ice, Fire, Candy, Slime) introduced in "Evergreen" returns and its significance is expanded. — not limited to the classical elements.
  • The Air Ride Series: Four of the Miss Robot models make up one of these. There's Playing with Fire 17.0., An Ice Person 18.0., Shock and Awe 19.0., and Poisonous Person 20.0. — There are 23 models in total and this is cherrypicking 4
  • Fushigi Yuugi: Genbu Kaiden: The first four are the resident Four-Element Ensemble. the group is larger than just the ones selectec
  • The Legend of Heroes: Trails from Zero and Trails to Azure: While there are seven elements, the final three become subject to the same mechanics regarding elemental weaknesses and resistances only in some instances. It's also highly relevant to the plot when this happens. The Crois family was attempting to recreate the lost Sept-Terion 'Demiourgos' which goverened Mirage. What they got was the 'Sept-Terrion of Zero', all three higher elements in one. The work involved in creating that power led to the weirdness with the higher elements.
  • Ring Fit Adventure: Played with; the player's moves are classified into different exercise types — arms, legs and thighs, core (torso), and yoga. Enemies are more vulnerable to certain types, so using the correct exercise for each encounter is a key skill. — none of the elements are present
  • Sucker Punch: Downplayed but it's there for each of the four fantasies. The temple fantasy has a battle that takes place in a snowstorm (Water). The WWI fantasy takes place in the trenches (Earth). The castle fantasy involves fending off a dragon (Fire), not to mention the girls needing something that makes Fire. The final fantasy involves a train on a raised platform amid clouds and mist (Air) - not to mention the girls needing to escape by helicopter and trouble arising when a jet pack doesn't work. — this isn't about a group
  • Go! Princess Pretty Cure: By adding the fiery Cure Scarlet into the Land, Sea, Sky Precure formation. — unclear whether the work adds Cure scarlet into the main group or if that's just the example writer shoehorning it in
  • Bloons Tower Defense: The first 4 bosses are associated with one of the four classical elements. The fifth boss, Lych, is likely themed after darkness. — this isn't about a defined group
  • Avatar: The Last Airbender - Team Avatar: The four benders: Aang (Air), Katara (Water), Toph (Earth) and Zuko (Fire). Lampshaded by Sokka. "Team Avatar is back! [series of dramatic zooms] Air! Water! Earth! Fire! [grabs some large leaves for himself and Suki] Fan and sword!" — the team is larger than the four and has always included Sokka
  • Brave Frontier Special Holiday Units: Her passive skills increase the Attack of Fire, Water, Earth and Thunder units. And as Sanguine Hood, she can apply the four elements to the squad with her Super Brave Burst. — this isn't about a team
  • Brave Frontier Units Part 13: He can bestow all four primary elements to the party with his Super Brave Burst. — This isn't about a team
  • Cardcaptor Sakura: There's a card for each natural element; Windy, Watery, Firey and Earthy. — This isn't about a team
  • Cowboy Bebop: Bebop Crew: Where are the other two elements?
    • Not that it's quite on the level of a superpower, but Spike's associated element is water. As he says himself:
    Spike: Water can take any form. It drifts without effort one moment, then pounds down in a torrent the very next.
    • As with Spike, it's not on the level of an actual superpower, but he's associated with earth. He gardens (which involves working with soil) and Laughing Bull refers to him as "Running Rock"
  • Final Fantasy IX Scars Of Terra - Summon Magic: Belias, Cúchulainn, Famfrit and Hashmal these are cherrypicked from a larger roster of summons
  • Angels & Demons: The theme of the four elements is used in the murders of four Catholic Cardinals and in the clues to the location of the Illuminati's meeting place. — not about a group of people
  • Magu-chan: God of DestructionElemental Powers: Can use magic of the (Four-Element Ensemble) four attributes of fire, water, wind, and lightning. — not about a group of people
  • Marvel: Avengers Academy: Event Students: All the event's non-premium unlockable characters can get "Elemental" costumes that aid in combat. — not about a group of people
  • Negima: Cosmo Entelecheia: In every generation, each construct model controls one of the primary four elements of earth, wind/lightning, fire and water/ice. Primum and Fate/Tertium are earth mages, Secundum and Quintum are wind/lightning mages, Quartum and Nii are fire mages, Sextum and Septendecim are water/ice mages. — not about a group that actually functions as a group
  • Lobotomy Corporation Ordeals: The God Delusion can use all four elements to attack, including two arm portals respectively doing red or black damage, a portal summoning a large tentacle that does white damage, and a large eye that moves from hallway to hallway and does pale damage. — not about a group of people
  • Samurai Jack - Enemies - The Goddess of the Water and Elementals: Water, Earth, Wind, and Fire. — not about a group of people
  • Tales of Destiny: As the 'holy' Swordian he has some control over the main four elements — not about a group of people
  • Brave Frontier Special Units: Their Leader Skill raise HP, Attack and Recovery of all allies of the Fire, Water, Earth and Thunder elements. — not about a group of people
  • Monster Sanctuary: Every attack falls under one of the classical elements, or is Non-Elemental. Fire is self-explanatory, but water encompasses ice, earth encompasses plants and poison, and air encompasses electricity. — not about a group of people

     Ambiguous 
  • Fantastic Four: Frequently lampshaded in discussions about the team. The Human Torch controls fire, the Thing is seemingly made of stone, Mr. Fantastic flows like water, and the Invisible Woman becomes invisible like air. — this one's actually ambiguous. the team doesn't have elemental powers, but if it's discussed in universe then it would count. It's just not clear if the "discussions" are in or out of universe
  • Rebelde Way: this could fit, could be a shoehorn depending on how much this is actually evoked as an Elemental Motif
    • Mia is Air; sweet, flighty, and sometimes unaware of the reality surrounding her.
    • Marizza is Fire; the most fiery and passionate of the group, and tends to do reckless choices based on her first impressions.
    • Manuel can overlap with fire at his worst, but at his best he's Earth: mature, level-headed and grounded enough to understand his surroundings.
    • Pablo is Water: He changes the most during the course of the series, much like water, which can change shape depending on its circumstances and learns to adapt to new situations. His irises are also a bright blue shade, similar to water. (Makes a bit of a funny Fire/Water Juxtaposition once he gets together with Marizza).
  • EDENS ZERO: Crew of Edens Zero: Both start out as enemies of the Edens Zero crew (Jinn/Kris as a mercenary from Rogue Out before going solo, and Sylph/Kleene as one of the Element 4), but take their side when the crew prove themselves willing to help them with their troubles.
  • Sekirei - Izumo Inn: There are four elemental-type Sekirei in Minato's harem, each controlling one of the four primary elements of water (Tsukiumi), wind (Kazehana), fire (Homura/Kagari), and earth/plants (Kusano). — could be a shoehorn since the harem is larger than them, but it doesn't say if these 4 interact a lot

     ZCE 

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 25th 2023 at 6:58:04 AM

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GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#2: Jun 13th 2023 at 4:54:23 AM

Paging ~amathieu13 to the thread.

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Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#3: Jun 13th 2023 at 5:05:30 AM

Seconding a merge.

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GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
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Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#5: Jun 13th 2023 at 5:06:21 AM

Option 1 sounds good and throwing Classical Elements Team as another name suggestion (though I question if it needs to be limited to these four any team with unique Elemental Magic works). I'll hold against merging but not strongly opposed.

Edited by Amonimus on Jun 13th 2023 at 3:28:28 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Eddy1215 Since: May, 2010 Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
#6: Jun 13th 2023 at 5:20:43 AM

I vote for clarifying that the trope is only about the four classics and that any shoehorned/misuses be removed.

A man who admires many forms of fiction.
amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#7: Jun 13th 2023 at 5:22:42 AM

[up][up]the reason why it was limited to these four (sometimes five) was because it's meant to capture the fact that people really like using the Classical Elements as a motif or invoking them for their connection to life/creation/power. You expand it to any elemental motif and ability, that meaning gets lost and it becomes harder to distinguish from Elemental Motifs and/or Superhero Speciation.

Edited by amathieu13 on Jun 13th 2023 at 8:24:17 AM

Amonimus the Retromancer from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the Retromancer
#8: Jun 13th 2023 at 5:28:07 AM

Haven't though about Superhero Speciation, so I'll retract the expandsion question.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#9: Jun 13th 2023 at 6:05:33 AM

[up][up]I agree that expanding would make it less distinct from other tropes.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 13th 2023 at 8:05:56 AM

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MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#10: Jun 13th 2023 at 7:32:26 AM

I guess I'm on the fence as to whether this is a specific characterization/team trope with characters with powers and motifs based on the classical elements specifically, or if Tropes Are Flexible should hold and this should be read as a trope about a team representing whatever elements the work itself is using. (Elemental Motifs is about individual characters and Superhero Speciation doesn't have to be along elemental lines.) If the latter, the problem with the Adventure Time example chosen to represent the second category of "misuse" is more that it refers to the elements themselves and not any characters representing them.

Then again, I'm kind of confused as to what Natural Elements is supposed to be. My first instinct was that it was the supertrope to Classical Elements about any pre-modern conception of the "elements", but a) Classical Elements is just a redirect to it and b) Bizarro Elements, which the AT example provides the image of, isn't listed as a subtrope. But the OP acknowledges that what elements make up the "classical" elements can differ, so rejecting ensembles based on alternative conceptions of the elements feels arbitrary. If broadening the trope would step on the toes of Elemental Motifs, that, to me, would suggest the un-broadened version is just The Same, but More Specific.

On the other hand, all the other examples of that category of "misuse" I see on the usage check run into other problems anyway (generally not being about ensembles, and in the case of The Beatles, a) possibly being made up/shoehorned and b) verging on troping real people). Those examples, and the other categories of misuse, mostly boil down to people using the trope to analyze works' use of Natural Elements in general, and can be moved there or to appropriate subtropes.

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#11: Jun 13th 2023 at 7:44:26 AM

[up]Elements of Nature was renamed and retooled into Natural Elements near the end of last month via this thread, which was originally for Elemental Powers, but we ended up making no changes to Elemental Powers other than trimming the description and transplanting some of the trimmed text to Natural Elements.

Edit: The Classical Elements redirect was made at the end of last month after it was suggested in the thread I linked to, if that matters.

Another edit: That Four-Element Ensemble "example" on Music.The Beatles is baffling. These are real people we're talking about here; they don't have any control over the elements, and any alleged element-related symbolism is just overthinking things.

Yet another edit: Now that I think of it, the fact that the OP writes Classical Elements as a WikiWord despite it being a redirect to Natural Elements is misleading. It might be worth revising the text to account for that, but I'm not going to do it unilaterally because I posted it for someone else instead of making it.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 13th 2023 at 9:59:06 AM

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amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#12: Jun 13th 2023 at 8:13:47 AM

[up][up] To your first point, you can see from the draft that this was always intended to cover the "classical elements" of fire, earth, water, and air, with an exception for 1) the times when Element No. 5 comes into the picture and 2) if a work was using the Chinese system, which uses fire, wood, metal, water, and earth as its main elements. So that Adventure Time example is technically incorrect on 2 fronts: it doesn't refer to actual people and it does not use any version of the classical elements.

As the person who drafted Natural Elements as part of what [up]Gaston mentioned, I can tell you that the laconic is an accurate summation of the trope: The forces of nature (especially fire, earth, water, and air) conceptualized as discrete elements that often serve as the basis of all matter and creation. The "classical elements" are just the most popular version of this idea, often showing up in some way as a group without any other natural elements, which is why it's an Internal Subtrope and Classical Elements is a redirect.

And while "the classical elements can differ," it's limited to the different versions listed on Natural Elements. It's not a free for all for any element. I was mostly checking to see if the Chinese or alchemic system popped up, because the description doesn't acknowledge them and would have to be edited.

As for Bizarro Elements, I honestly just forgot about it when drafting Natural Elements. It should be a subtrope, so I'll fix that now.

[up]You can swap out Classical Elements for Natural Elements in the OP if you want. I had 0 intention of misleading; as I said, I don't have a strong preference for any of the options. It was just faster to write the redirect than "Natural Elements of which the Classical Elements are an internal subtrope" each time.

Edited by amathieu13 on Jun 13th 2023 at 11:29:58 AM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#13: Jun 13th 2023 at 9:44:56 AM

I changed the links to Classical Elements in the OP to point to Natural Elements, but I left plain-text occurrences of "classical elements" alone.

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MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#14: Jun 13th 2023 at 9:47:01 AM

I can tell you that the laconic is an accurate summation of the trope: The forces of nature (especially fire, earth, water, and air) conceptualized as discrete elements that often serve as the basis of all matter and creation. The "classical elements" are just the most popular version of this idea, often showing up in some way as a group without any other natural elements...
So it's any set of elements that fits the idea of "the forces of nature conceptualized as discrete elements"?
And while "the classical elements can differ," it's limited to the different versions listed on Natural Elements. It's not a free for all for any element.
But it has to be from the specific set of elements listed on the page?
As for Bizarro Elements, I honestly just forgot about it when drafting Natural Elements. It should be a subtrope, so I'll fix that now.
But Bizarro Elements is a subtrope, so we're back to the broader concept that doesn't have to adhere to what's specifically listed on the page? Can you see why I might still be confused over the scope? Okay, maybe the second quote refers specifically to the "classical elements" instead of Natural Elements more generally...
You can swap out Classical Elements for Natural Elements in the OP if you want. I had 0 intention of misleading...
...but if that's the case, and Natural Elements could be swapped in for Classical Elements in your OP and be less misleading with regards to the scope of this trope, wouldn't that imply the broader definition is the one that should apply to this trope?

But now we're drifting into arguing over whether Natural Elements needs clarification or TRS. I wouldn't read too much into the Four-Element Ensemble draft talking primarily about the classical system (though it does acknowledge the Chinese system) as it wouldn't be the first time a trope was initially proposed as being more specific than it should be, but as I said before all the examples of alternative element systems listed on the usage check are misuse regardless of the systems they use, so the question is kind of academic with regards to this trope. It could have bearing with regards to moving those examples to other pages, though.

GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#15: Jun 13th 2023 at 9:48:41 AM

Let's drop the discussion about Natural Elements. This thread is about Four-Element Ensemble, not that trope.

As I said when The Team's thread got derailed by Five-Man Band discussion, start a Trope Talk thread if you want to discuss a separate trope that badly.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 13th 2023 at 11:56:37 AM

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amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#16: Jun 13th 2023 at 10:25:49 AM

[up][up]Could you actually change the two references in purple below to "classical elements" as plain text?

  • Four-Element Ensemble is meant to be about a group of four/five people in which each person is associated (either with Elemental Powers or Elemental Motifs) with Natural Elements.
  • People applying this to talk about [the] Natural Elements as a broad theme in general or as a magic system (which would now be covered under Natural Elements)

The trope page of Natural Elements covers the specific subset known as the "classical elements", but it is broader than just that (which was why I thought to use the more specific redirect), so right now my OP is describing FEE broader than what it actually is/was created to be.

All other instances are fine.

Edited by amathieu13 on Jun 13th 2023 at 1:27:21 PM

Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#17: Jun 13th 2023 at 10:35:57 AM

[up] done, except I went with slightly different wording for the first one. ("each person is associated […] with a different classical element" instead of "each person is associated […] with classical elements").

NotGonnaDoALot4 Man in the Yellow Hat from God knows. Since: Feb, 2018 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Man in the Yellow Hat
#19: Jun 13th 2023 at 12:27:15 PM

There is a "Fire, Water, Air, Earth Team" trope in here, in my opinion.

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GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#20: Jun 13th 2023 at 8:56:24 PM

[up]Maybe we could change the trope to focus on that (or the equivalent in other cultures), possibly renaming it to Classical Element Ensemble, and maybe also drop the symbolic examples in favor of favor of characters who actually make use the elements. As has been shown, some "symbolic examples" aren't actually symbolic, and are just editors reading too much into things.

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amathieu13 Since: Aug, 2013
#21: Jun 13th 2023 at 10:11:48 PM

[up]minus removing Elemental Motifs/restricting to only Elemental Powers, this is option 1 in the OP

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#22: Jun 13th 2023 at 10:17:57 PM

[up]Ah, OK. I made my previous post not long after getting out of bed, so I had gone some time without reading the thread.

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MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#23: Jun 14th 2023 at 1:50:24 AM

Since use of elements beyond the classical set is less of a problem than use for non-ensembles or portions of ensembles, I'm not quite sure a rename is necessary. My instinct would be to clean up the examples that are just analyzing a work's use of the Natural Elements and go from there.

I also think symbolic uses of the elements are actually more tropeworthy than restricting it to the actual powers unless there are enough examples of the latter to make a Trope in Aggregate, especially if we're restricting it to the actual classical elements. For an ensemble trope, you want to focus on the interaction between the characters, whereas focusing on what powers are being used turns the point into how the powers complement each other.

That people can't be trusted not to use the sanctioning of symbolic examples as a loophole to justify shoehorning anyone they want in is valid, but in practice shoehorns are at least as much a problem with examples with powers as without them. I only really count two clear cases of people shoehorning in symbolic examples involving groups of people: the Home Alone example in the OP, and the Beatles example brought up earlier.

Edited by MorganWick on Jun 14th 2023 at 1:50:37 AM

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
TrueShadow1 Since: Dec, 2012
#25: Jun 15th 2023 at 4:02:06 AM

Looking at the wick check, I wonder if there's a need for Fire Water Wind Earth elemental grouping trope, in the same vein as Fire, Ice, Lightning.

Trope Repair Shop: FourElementEnsemble rename
22nd Jun '23 8:25:48 AM

Crown Description:

The previous crowner has decided to rename and redefine Four Element Ensemble to specifically be about teams. What should the new name be?

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