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Original post:

The trope's basic identity seems to encompass two distinct but closely related concepts: wolves howling at dusk being used to note the onset of night time, and wolves howling late at night to reinforce a creepy setting or establish a fearful mood. In both cases, the description goes, the actual wolves are rarely seen. This is contrasted with Cock-a-Doodle Dawn for the animal sound heralding the change from night to day.

The most immediately concerning thing is potential overlap with Wolves Always Howl at the Moon, which generally encompasses wolves, werewolves, and generally lupine creatures howling in a moonward direction. There is potential ground to distinguish the two concepts — one is a mood and setting signifier, and one plays on associations with a specific celestial object. However, I am not convinced that this distinction is present in the way in which the trope is used, due to the primary issue here — a mess of a page and severe misuse.

The main page is soft split, so let's keep that distinction. All formatting is as it is on the current page.

    Type A: At Dusk Version 
  • When Ash's Rockruff evolves into the appropriately named Dusk Form Lycanroc in Pokémon, it joins its other two forms (the Midday owned by Olivia, and Midnight owned by Gladion) in howling into sunset. Correct Use.
  • Occurs in three installments of The Legend of Zelda series, paired with Cock-a-Doodle Dawn. Wolves howl whenever night falls. Correct Use.
  • Happens in Ōkami. ZCE
  • Warcraft III has a wolf howl at 18:00 to tell the player that night has fallen (and a rooster crowing to indicate daybreak). Correct Use.
  • When you visit Garoh in Golden Sun: The Lost Age for the first time (at night), mournful wolf howls are heard (because it's a village of werewolves). Sadly, the version of the BGM with howls is not part of the soundtrack. Correct Use, but of the other type.
    • Though the version without the howls is a darned fine song in its own right. Editorializing, but that's another problem.

    Type B: Late at Night Version: 

Literature:

  • Holo from Spice and Wolf does this on occasion, even when in human form. ZCE
  • In A Wolf in the Soul, Greg joins in howling late at night with the jackals who live in the forest just outside of Jerusalem. Correct Use

Music:

  • Ylvis's "The Fox" parodies this with an Auto Tuned howl. ZCE
  • Howlin' Wolf: His singing voice was compared to howlin' wolves, thus earning him his stage name. His single "Moanin' At Moonlight" and the album cover from Moanin' in the Moonlight also delve into this trope. Ambigous. The reference to the moon suggests correct use, but otherwise this doesn't mention nighttime.
  • Los Redondos' Capricho Magyar ends with a pack of wolves howling. Doesn't mention nighttime

Video Games:

  • Banjo-Kazooie features howling wolves prominently in the background ambiance of various "spooky areas", most notably Mad Monster Mansion in the first game and Witchyworld's "horror zone" in the sequel. Correct Use.
  • Conker's Bad Fur Day parodies the above "What beautiful music they make!" line. ZCE

Western Animation:

  • In Rocko's Modern Life, the Wolfe family do this on their rooftop. To emphasize that they consider Heffer to be a part of their family (despite not actually being a wolf), Heffer joins them (only instead of howling, he says "MOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!") Doesn't mention nighttime

  • Correct use: 6/22 — 27.3%
  • Correct use, but miscategorized: 2/22 — 9.1%
  • Doesn't mention nighttime: 3/22 — 13.6%
  • Plain ZCE: 11/22 — 50%

22 examples at a generous count, half of that ZCE, and the rest are a mess. Pretty bad, but nothing some vigorous crosswicking couldn't fix. So I went to do that, and here is what I found. Since only 71 (73 counting the Laconic and Playing With) pages link here, I checked all of them.

    External wick check 

  • Wolves howl at the onset of night: 7/72 — 9.7%
  • Wolves howl to reinforce creepy or frightening atmospheres: 10/72 — 13.9%
  • Wolves howl to communicate or summon more wolves: 8/72 — 11.1%
  • Wolves Always Howl at the Moon: 7/72 — 9.7%
  • Wolves howl for whatever other reasons: 24/72 — 33.3%
  • Non-canines howling: 5/72 — 6.9%
  • ZCE: 11/72 — 15.3%

Overall, there's a very clear identity problem here. Correct usage, collectively, makes up 23.6% of examples, and ZCEs and random misuse make up the remaining three quarters and change. There is also an evident problem with this being confused with Wolves Always Howl at the Moon, which gets mixed into this even when examples of the former aren't listed as this trope. The name also doesn't indicate that it's about wolves, which seems to be why non-canine examples get mixed in.

I have mixed feelings here. The basic concepts of "wolves how to mark the onset of night" and "howling wolves are used reinforce creepy settings" are sound, but keeping them mixed with each other is definitely leading to trope dilution. By the same line of reasoning, folding this into Wolves Always Howl at the Moon would probably just worsen things, because then you'd be defining the trope as "wolves howl to show their association with the moon and to signal the fall of night and to reinforce creepy atmospheres", and by that point you've basically just broadened it to "wolves howl".

My instinct is that "wolves how to mark the onset of night" can probably be separated into its own thing, although it would need a more specific name to avoid the current trope's issues. "Howling wolves are used reinforce creepy settings", however, can probably be expanded to include other animal noises being used for this general purpose — I feel like owls hooting and ravens cawing get put to similar uses, so something like Ominous Ambient Animal Noises or what have you might be viable.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 12th 2023 at 1:10:20 PM

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#26: Jun 3rd 2023 at 12:30:02 AM

I hooked a crowner since it's been a couple of days with no feedback. Feel free to mention if any options were missed.

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#27: Jun 3rd 2023 at 8:48:28 AM

Spooky Animal Sounds?

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#28: Jun 3rd 2023 at 10:48:45 AM

I don't like "Ominous Animal Noises" yet like "Spooky Animal Sounds". Something about "spooky" evokes outdoor ambiance.

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GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
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#30: Jun 3rd 2023 at 4:19:58 PM

I think Spooky Animal Sounds if my favorite so far, actually.

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alnair20aug93 🍊orange fursona🧡 from Furrypines (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
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#31: Jun 3rd 2023 at 4:36:43 PM

Ominous Animal Ambient Noises reminds me of that Trump-aligned network added with an additional letter. Plus not concise too.

Correction: Oprah's channel is OWN. OAN is this one.

Edited by alnair20aug93 on Jun 6th 2023 at 4:10:09 PM

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#32: Jun 3rd 2023 at 5:24:36 PM

I personally think "wolves always howl at the moon" and "wolf howl used to signify nightfall" as a counterpart to Cock-A-Doodle Dawn are two completely different things. For one, there might not even be a moon and you usually don't actually see the wolf. However, I think the latter can be expanded since I've also seen owls and crows used to signify nightfall.

Edited by ninjamitsuki2 on Jun 3rd 2023 at 8:25:16 AM

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GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
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#34: Jun 7th 2023 at 5:39:12 PM

Bumping this because once the description is rewritten, this is an incredibly easy 78 wick cleanup, with not many on-page examples either.

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Theriocephalus Amateur Veteran from gimme a map and a moment and I can tell you Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
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#35: Jun 7th 2023 at 6:30:38 PM

Since a redirect was made directly, I set up Sandbox.Spooky Animal Sounds. I think I've got a decent description going, but the examples are a bit scarce because a) the original page is also sparse, and b) also it's wolf-focused. An obvious fix would be to go through pages like Creepy Crows or Ominous Owl for relevant material.

Edited by Theriocephalus on Jun 7th 2023 at 8:31:16 AM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
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#36: Jun 7th 2023 at 9:32:55 PM

[up]I think the description looks fine, but I'll wait for more feedback.

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Theriocephalus Amateur Veteran from gimme a map and a moment and I can tell you Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
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#37: Jun 7th 2023 at 9:34:11 PM

Had a look through Creepy Crows, which yielded some material.

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#38: Jun 9th 2023 at 4:16:25 PM

Can I edit the sandbox? I've got a few examples, and I think I've also heard cats used.

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Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
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GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
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#41: Jun 12th 2023 at 3:19:14 AM

I don't have a problem with swapping in. It's been almost a week since I posted my own feedback, so we can probably go ahead with it.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
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#43: Jun 12th 2023 at 10:55:05 AM

All right, I moved the discussion page to the new name, so I'll do the usual stuff of documenting the rename and posting a notice on the old name's discussion page.

Edit: Moved the indexing over to the new name and disambiguated the old name. I'll cut the drafting sandbox since the page is live now.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 12th 2023 at 1:09:33 PM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Theriocephalus Amateur Veteran from gimme a map and a moment and I can tell you Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Amateur Veteran
#44: Jun 12th 2023 at 3:50:33 PM

I'll get started on the wick cleaning.

In the meantime, how's this for a trope epitaph?

  • Here lies Howling to the Night: It had a noise complaint filed against it.note 

Edit: And done.

Edit 2: The Revenge: And also finished crosswicking Spooky Animal Sounds.

Edited by Theriocephalus on Jun 12th 2023 at 6:35:50 AM

GastonRabbit Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#45: Jun 12th 2023 at 4:46:27 PM

Wick cleaning is done, so here comes the sun.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
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Trope Repair Shop: Howling to the Night
3rd Jun '23 12:27:54 AM

Crown Description:

Consensus was to rework Howling To The Night into a trope for ambient animal noises being used to reinforce a creepy setting or establish a fearful mood and move "wolves howling at dusk being used to note the onset of night time examples to Wolves Always Howl At The Moon. What should the expanded Howling To The Night's name be?

Total posts: 45
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