Hindsight Cleanup

From The Simpsons S4 E11 - "Homer's Triple Bypass"

• "Funny Aneurysm" Moment:
  • After Homer briefly dies of a heart attack, Mr. Burns decides to send a consolation ham to Marge in response (which ends up reviving him). The joke would become less funny thirteen years later when after Chris Candido's ultimely death, TNA refused to pay out his last check to his long-time girlfriend Tammy Lynn Sytch and eventually sent her a consolation ham instead.
  • Also the cops busting into the wrong house isn't so funny anymore as the issue of people getting killed during no-knock warrants on the wrong house (e.g., the 2020 case involving Breonna Taylor) has become prevalent in recent years and controversial enough that some states are outlawing the practice of no-knock warrants altogether. Then there's the line in the COPS: In Springfield theme song, "Whether in a car/Or on a horse/We don't mind/Using excessive force", which, thanks to heightened concern over police brutality (especially when it happens to minority suspects), would be considered in poor taste.
• Hilarious in Hindsight: A flashback to Homer's childhood revealed his promising singing career was ruined when his voice changed. A few episodes in later seasons, such as "Homer's Barbershop Quartet", "Homer of Seville", and "That 90s Show", show that Homer did have brief, but memorable stints as a professional singer and that his voice change as a teenager didn't stop him.

The first FAM seems like a reach. The second is just more 2020 Breonna Taylor shoehorns. Because as we know, police brutality didn't exist in 1992. I'm on the fence about the Hilarious example. Could it work or is it just Negative Continuity at play here?

Edited by MatthewLMayfield on Dec 17th 2020 at 4:44:05 AM

The first one sounds like Fan Myopia, but then again...how many people send consolation hams? Genuine question. As for the second one...

They say this like it wasn't obviously meant to be in poor taste the first time.

And the Hilarious example just kinda sounds like a retcon, unless Homer's voice changing is also relevant in the later episodes somehow.

Especially since it came out the year after Rodney King's beating.

Removed a shoehorn in HilariousInHindsight.Grand Theft Auto IV over two games taking place in Big Applesauce expies:

• A pair of games from an otherwise different popular franchise does a Follow the Leader, having a Continuity Reboot setting the game in a No Celebrities Were Harmed New York. And the final mission pits a player against Hate Sink Big Bad in New York! Only fans who knew both franchises can see the connection.

Pokemon Black And White isn't even a Continuity Reboot. This is literally just "both games take place in something akin to New York."

Exactly. I had already zapped the example.

Another shoehorn I boldly zapped, this time from YMMV.Grand Theft Auto V:

• Harsher in Hindsight:
  • The gameplay trailer released on July 9, 2013 had Michael and Jimmy returning from a father-son bike ride and the latter exclaiming "Jeez, pop, too much more of that and maybe I won't be dead by 35!". On the previous day, it was announced that gaming journalist Ryan Davis had suddenly passed away at the age of 34.

Surely a lot of people younger than 35 died in 2013.

Edited by Albert3105 on Dec 17th 2020 at 8:27:34 AM

And "previous day" means it's not hindsight.

There's another probable shoehorn on the same page, that should probably be zapped.

• Harsher in Hindsight:
  • Lazlow coming on to Tracey during the Fame or Shame audition mission, and some of the character's radio comments about his career, not to mention his price for letting her back on the show is for her to have sex with him in "Reuniting The Family", before Michael severely humiliates him in a rage, takes on a new perspective after the celebrity sexual harassment scandals of late 2017. That said, Lazlow's comeuppance - several times in the game, in fact - takes on Hilarious in Hindsight qualities as a result.

Similarly to police abuse scandals, I don't recall sexual harrassment or abuse scandals never having existed before 2013 or 2017.

Edited by Albert3105 on Dec 17th 2020 at 8:35:15 AM

Reposting from the previous page:

Bringing up the following examples from Die Another Day:

• "Funny Aneurysm" Moment: In a training simulation, Bond approaches a mook holding M hostage. To kill him, Bond shoots M first before doing so. Q then laments to Bond that what he did wasn't the right way to save before, causing Bond to reveal that he only inflicted a flesh wound on her. Cue Skyfall, where M ends up being shot in the side by a mook of a former MI6 agent... and due to her age, passes away from blood loss.
• Harsher in Hindsight: Kim Jong-Il, a huge James Bond fan, despised this film because of its treatment of North Korea in general and of the character Colonel Moon in particular, seen as a non-too-subtle Expy of Kim himself...and allegedly stabbed one of his ministers in the knee with a pen in a fit of rage because of it. James Bond - a fictional character- was even declared an enemy of North Korea as a result of this film!
• Hilarious in Hindsight:
  • In Madonna's "Beautiful Stranger" tie-in video for Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me, Basil Exposition mentions that Madonna has already seduced 007 and 008. And now she gets to be the theme singer and have a cameo in an actual Bond film.
  • This wouldn't be the last film where Rosamund Pike plays a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing that betrays her Love Interest.
  • Toby Stephens went on to take on the role of Bond himself in BBC radio adaptations of Ian Fleming's novels.

First off, I'm not sure about the FAM, the Harsher example doesn't explain where the hindsight is, and the Hilarious examples are actor garbage.

• In 1997, All My Children's Maria Santos-Grey was "killed" in a plane crash, devastating her husband Edmund. Four years later, Eva LaRue, Maria's actress, was scheduled to be a passenger on American Airlines Flight 11, the first plane to strike the World Trade Center. She decided to postpone to a later flight because she wanted to sleep late, and thus avoided meeting her character's fate. (At the time, she was married to John Callahan, who played Edmund — and would have been on the plane with her — making the similarities even more chilling.) Would count if LaRue actually did die on that plane.
• In American Horror Story: Cult, the main villain is a cult leader who is a mix between The Joker and Charles Manson. A couple of hours after the season finale ended, the real Charles Manson died of natural causes at the age of 83. Mortality example.
• The Big Bang Theory:
  • In a seventh season episode, the gang were asking each other if they had dated other people while dating each other. When Leonard asked Penny, she denied it, then didn't bother asking him the same. When pressed, she scoffed "Really?" This moment becomes darker when in the eighth season finale, Leonard tells Penny just moments before their wedding that he actually cheated ^note And by "cheated" meaning "accidentally kissed another girl while drunk because he was trying to subconsciously torpedo the wedding because he didn't think he deserved to marry Penny, and the other girl didn't even remember it." on her while on a work trip. Just because he accidentally kissed someone other than Penny doesn't mean he cheated on her.
  • In another episode, Penny makes a joke about wishing she was on a plane that crashed into a mountain. Not so funny after real-life Flight 9525 did just that. Planes have crashed into mountains before Flight 9525.
• Conan did an extended gag about the English nurse who was fooled by an Australian DJ pretending to be the Queen in December 2012. The episode was repeated on Australian television in March 2013, three months after the nurse committed suicide. Mortality.
• Season 7 of CSI had an episode, "Fannysmacking," where Greg was caught by a group of youths, some black, who made a hobby out of casually assaulting tourists. Cornered, Greg kills one of them in self-defense and is traumatized. It then becomes a running plot for the rest of the season that Greg is put on trial for the killing, with the victim's mother refusing to recognize what her son did and trying to paint Greg as a heartless killer. Following the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman incident, the whole arc takes on... implications. Not everyone is familiar with the George Zimmerman incident.
  • In a Season 1 episode, a bombing suspect mentions how he likes to keep souvenirs - putting a souvenir from a bomb at his workplace, up along the likes of souvenirs from Waco and the WTC. While the latter was obviously in reference to the 1993 bombing, the episode itself aired a mere seven months before the infamous 2001 attack on the World Trade Center. Kinda reads like "The World Trade Center existed."
• The Daily Show: In one episode, Jon Stewart was commenting on the rising unemployment rates, the increasing deficit, and lack of solid political leadership with a very simple "We're doomed!" The day that episode aired? September 10th, 2001. Because 9/11 had everything to do with unemployment.
• J.T. Yorke of Degrassi was only one of three people to attend the funeral for Rick Murray after he was killed in season 4 (the other two being Rick's mom and Toby). Sadly, JT would be the next Degrassi student to die; he was stabbed to death two seasons later. Character mortality.
• The Ellen DeGeneres Show purported itself to be a happy show where Ellen always rewarded niceness and guests were always treated like family. Of course, the show's moral standing was called into question in August 2020 when reports surfaced of behind the scenes workplace abuse, racism, and sexual assault. Even worse than that were allegations that Ellen not only knew about the abuse her staff was getting, but refused to do anything about it and even participated in the abuse a few times. ??? ^note I don't know, my train of thought is honestly just "2020? That can't be good. Probably not the best method of finding examples
• In one episode of Everybody Loves Raymond, there is a rather unpleasant scene where Ray tells Debra that he found out that their daughter Ally has been bullying another girl on the school bus. Debra shrugs it off, saying she doesn't think it's a big deal and that it's just kids being kids. When Ray asserts that bullying is indeed a big deal and notes that he and Robert are still scarred from their own experiences, Debra smirks and calls him a wuss, and then starts calling Ray names. The studio audience roars with laughter and approval during the whole scene, which was filmed in 2000. Fast-forward a decade later, and the recent spate of high-profile bullying-related suicides, the bullying of an elderly school employee by children (on the school bus, no less), and other bullying-related incidents makes this scene more uncomfortable now. It really makes one imagine that a studio audience in 2010 or 2012 would be much more likely to cringe than laugh during that scene, really making Ray look like the Only Sane Man. Examples Are Not Recent, plus bullying has always existed long before this show was conceived. Although Debra's attitude towards it seems more like a Values Dissonance thing.
• Family Affair, Season 1, episode 6. Title, "Room With a Viewpoint." Cissy gets her own phone, and an interior designer redecorates the girls' bedroom so that Cissy's half is more teenage and Buffy's half is more little girlish. This sends Buffy into a depression because she fears that Cissy is growing up and away from her, leaving her behind. The conflict for Buffy is resolved when Cissy and Uncle Bill reassure her that one day she will grow up too. The real-life actress, Anissa Jones, was Not Allowed to Grow Up, and died of a drug overdose at age 18. Isn't it sad that that's all anyone remembers about this show?
• Friends:
  • There's a running storyline through the show that Monica is The Unfavorite. The main reason for this is because the Gellers believed they couldn't have children, so Ross was a huge (and happy) surprise to them. Monica coming along later wasn't such a special event and the situation was made worse by Ross winning lots of scientific awards in school whereas Monica wanted to be a chef which isn't so overtly prestigious. The storyline was always played for bitter-sweet humor, but in the later years of the show, when Chandler and Monica try to have children, they learn they're both infertile. The storyline was triggered by Monica's actress having problems in real life and the writers deciding to address it in the show. With hindsight, knowing the pain Chandler and Monica go through later in the show, the subject of infertility running in the Geller family is even harsher than it was before, and all infertility jokes (including Chandler joking that he's incapable of having children in the final episode of season 3) are much less funny when rewatched. This is valid.
  • In an episode of season two, there's a plot deciding that Chandler is Hollywood Pudgy. This isn't particularly funny to begin with, as he had no idea he'd gained any weight and the plot consists of Monica treating him badly because she needs a project and ending with him making her depression over life worse. But with Perry's weight issues from his drug addiction, ranging from looking like a sunken-in skeleton with skin in season three to bloated in season six, it gets even more uncomfortable. This is probably also valid.
  • Early seasons have an unfortunate habit of using the World Trade Center as an establishing shot. This is not valid. No planes are ever shown crashing into the building on this show.
• The diffusion of the first episode of Fringe, which contains a plane accident, in France coincided with the Rio-Paris plane crash... The episode was broadcast one week later instead. Looks like a subversion, except HIH can't be subverted.
• The Glee Season 3 box set has a small extra called 'Saying Goodbye'; it was originally supposed to be a 'goodbye' for the characters who graduated high school, but takes on a new meaning due to Cory Monteith's death from a drug overdose on July 13, 2013. Actor mortality. There's also a bunch of subbullets that all also involve death, with varying degrees of validity.
• The iCarly special "iPsycho" shows a depressed Gibby saying that he has nothing better to do than to watch Diff'rent Strokes reruns. This episode aired the same week Gary Coleman passed away. Considering the "Awww" that came from the canned laughter, it may be possible that they added it at the last minute to pay tribute to him. Probably actor mortality.
  • The climax of "iRue the Day" involves Nevel having his home raided by a SWAT team while he hacks into the iCarly signal, the whole thing being webcast live. In 2014, "swatting" prank resulted in armed officers arresting gamer Jordan Mathewson during a livestream. What the hell is a "swatting" prank?
  • The series (as well as spin-off Sam & Cat) plays on Sam's often huge appetite. Actress Jeannette McCurdy would later confess she's been suffering from an eating disorder during her time on both shows. Valid.

A swatting prank is when you call a S.W.A.T. team on someone as a practical joke. As you can imagine, it causes legal issues and sometimes, ends tragically

I agree with the conclusion about all three Friends' examples.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 18th 2020 at 2:01:31 PM

The Fringe example is Distanced from Current Events.

SCP Foundation and hololive can be found here.

The Magnus Archives can be found here: here.

For the results on Puyo Puyo, go here.

Edited by SomeLibre on Dec 19th 2020 at 10:57:51 PM

Oh boy...

hololive: I don't know what the second example is saying, so you might be fine cutting it.
SCP Foundation: The examples, in order, are; Weak connection, very weak connection, actor mortality (but it was acknowledged), ZCE + ROCEJ violation, a stretch, a huge stretch, valid, probably valid, and Fan Myopia.
The Magnus Archives: Not familiar with the work, so I don't know what to do here. At the very least, nuke the COVID example.
The Laundry Files: Probably a stretch
The Holy Mountain: Could work if everyone in the world was familiar with Team Fortress 2. So, no, it doesn't work.
Diamond in the Rough Touhou: The first one could stay because creator acknowledgement. The others, I don't know.
Dream: "One-in-a-trillion" is a common phrase. Cut it.
Dream SMP: Looks like you're right.
Gyo: Huge Fan Myopia problem. Cut 'em.

I could be wrong, though.

From The Simpsons S2 E10 "Bart Gets Hit by a Car"

• Hilarious in Hindsight:
  • The Devil says Bart isn't due in Hell until the Yankees win the World Series decades from now. At time of broadcast, 1991, this baseball team hadn't won this sports event since 1978 and they had some of the worst records they ever had as a team in the early '90's. But then they turned things around and they won again in 1996. ^note  They also won in 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2009.
  • In Brazil, it's until Brazil wins the FIFA World Cup. The last time Brazil won before 1991 was in 1970. Brazil's next victory took place in 1994. ^note  Brazil won again in 2002.
  • The Devil is voiced by the same actor that plays Flanders. "Treehouse of Horror IV" will later actually depict Flanders as the devil!
  • Marge is called to testify before court by the name "Mrs. Homer J. Simpson" (rendered in some dubs as "Mrs. H. J. Simpson", even). Amazingly, the scene predates the O. J. Simpson trial, which happened in 1994/1995, while the episode aired in 1991.
  • In this, Hutz's first appearance, he actually ends up giving the Simpsons advice that while unethical would have actually won them the case had they followed it. Later episodes show Hutz as so utterly incompetent that the Simpsons would be and often are worse off by doing anything he says on top of being extremely unethical

The Yankees and Brazil ones are just sports team winning championships, which may be amusing if both teams were having rough times. But are those worth keeping or not? The Devil one is just in-show actor garbage. The "Mrs. H.J. Simpson" one sounds like a bad shoehorn. And I believe the Hutz one is called Characterization Marches On

I think the sports ones can stay, as they take the form of "this hasn't happened in a long time, so it clearly will continue not to happen for a long time" and then it happens in a not-long time. I agree with cutting the rest.

From HilariousInHindsight.Star Wars, relating to Attack of the Clones:

• Jango isn't the only person in cinema to have a name out of a western, AND to go up against Samuel L. Jackson.
• When he's being held prisoner, the first thing Obi-Wan said to Dooku is "Traitor!"
• One of the biggest memes from this movie is Anakin's dislike of sand. Come The Rise of Skywalker, Rey decides to honor the Skywalker legacy by burying his lightsaber underneath the sand.

The first one at least is a tenuous actor connection.

I suppose the Jango one could work, like you said.

The Dooku one I am unsure of. It's been a while since I saw The Force Awakens, so what's the context of the traitor remark. Or is the trope implying just because the word "traitor" is used, there's automatically a connection?

Never seen Rise of Skywalker, so bear with me. Did she bury his lightsaber because she thought of his dislike for sand? Unless that happens to factor in, that sounds like a reach

I watched The Rise Of Skywalker, and I remember Rey putting the lightsaber on the ground (at least), but I also remember there was no "hatred towards sand" involved. Also the lightsaber was buried in Tatooine, which has sand everywhere.

Edited by SomeLibre on Dec 20th 2020 at 9:05:36 PM

Sorry if this is in the way of the The Rise Of Skywalker discussion, just wanted to drop this one for assesment.

Found in YMMV.Blow Up:

• Harsher in Hindsight: The Rolls-Royce in the film was loaned to the production by Jimmy Savile.

So how is that in any way related to Savile’s predatory activities? This seems like a Hitler Ate Sugar kind of thing, where something completely innocuous happened to have been done by a predator so now everyone thinks it’s scary or something.

Yeah, that's misuse.

I think that counts. I think the fact Sonic had an improvised conversation about replacing two characters if they did something bad, and then the voice actors for those two characters specifically got kicked out for doing something bad, makes it worth noting. Same with the forcefemme thing, but that could use more context, saying Ryan found the gag uncomfortable at the time and it was one of the factors that led to Hayley's removal.

Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 20th 2020 at 6:24:26 AM

The one thing that i think isn't valid is the subbullet to the first example, as a "lame, stupid, or uncool" action could refer to anything.

x7 for The Rise of Skywalker, there's x5 containing details I remember from the final scene. I think the lightsaber was buried in a sand planet.