Neutral/Other Character Critique Thread (because seriously why don't we have one of these already)

We've got hero and villain critique threads already, which is great, but what if you've got a character who's neutral? Or has Blue-and-Orange Morality? Or constantly switches sides? Or whose alignment you don't want to mention because it spoils half the plot? If your character doesn't quite belong in the other two threads, but you need someone to critique them anyway, this is the thread for you!

Same format (copy-pasted and tweaked from the villain thread), same rules: comment on the character above before posting your own.

Name: This is the square root of 42
Age: Ten thousand year old sorceror or just a baby? Take your pick (No you are not limited to just those two options).
Personality: That little thing that separates us from George Bush.
Abilities: What is it that makes them a threat?
Weaknesses: Because no one likes a Mary Sue.
Goals: What does the character want to accomplish?
Motivation: Everyone has a reason. (Although not necessarily a justification.)
Role in the story: What does the character actually DO??
Backstory: This one's optional since some characters are far more effective when you know nothing about them.
Relevant Tropes: BECAUSE THIS IS TV TROPES, DANG IT!!

Question: Could this also be used for Supporting Characters? Characters who, whether they're good or evil, don't really fall into the Hero/Villain mold?

I've toyed with making a thread like this for Supports but have been putting it off and now not sure if it'd be redundant.

edited 10th Jun '18 4:24:50 PM by sgamer82

I agree, and if possible it might do some good to rename this the Supporting Character Critique thread, which is both more succinct and all-encompassing.

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur

Not saying that I would personally use this thread, because threads like these aren't really my thing, but one thing that always bothered me about the Hero/Villain critique threads was the fact that most of my stories don't really have 'sides'- everyone's too gray to be particularly 'bad' or 'good', such that calling most of my characters either heroes or villains would pigeonhole them, and that even goes for my protagonists. I think the title is perfectly fine as it is, because protagonists and antagonists are equally as capable as side characters of not really counting as either heroic, or villainous.

edited 10th Jun '18 4:59:23 PM by CrystalGlacia

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."

I guess so, although the "whether they're good or evil" part is confusing me a bit. Do you mean something like, "Not taking a side in the main conflict, regardless of moral alignment"?

I agree that the current title is fine. I was thinking of going with the suggested title, but for basically the same reason you brought up, I changed it to Neutral, and added Other for flexibility.

I mean more like a character aligned with good who doesn't necessarily qualify as a "hero" or protagonist. Or vice versa. So more a Supporting Character situation.

Sure, we can include them. I suppose that falls under "Other," right?

I guess I'll start this off. Here's a supporting character from my Pokemon Super Fic.

Name: Anthony Lyon
Age: Late teens/young adult.
Personality: Anthony is a determined young man who could not imagine standing idly by when there is a problem to be solved. You wouldn't know that just by looking at him though, given how quiet he is.
Abilities: He's a skilled Pokemon trainer, and he also has a magic cape that both looks and functions like Flygon wings.
Weaknesses: While his cape is active, he has the same type weaknesses as an actual Flygon, Ice being the biggest one. He also spends much of the story recovering from an injury that occurred off-page, preventing him from getting involved more directly.
Goals: To help others in any way he can. Currently, he wants to save the world from the Destroyer Deity Olympus Mons.
Motivation: Anthony worked hard to get to where he is now. He had help along the way, and wants to pay it forward.
Role: He is descended from the king of ancient Symphora, to whom the apocalyptic prophecy was originally told. The prophecy actually states that the king's descendant would be unable to intervene - which is exactly what happens due to a very (in)conveniently timed injury. Being unable to take direct action, he assists the heroes who can.
Relevant Tropes:

• Ambiguous Disorder: He's very quiet and socially awkward, and sometimes has difficulty keeping his emotions under control.
• Beware The Quiet/Nice Ones: He can kick some serious tail should the need arise.
• Cape Wings
• Cool Shades: Or goggles, as the case may be.
• Chekhov's Gift: He gives April an egg that later hatches into Trapinch, whose Ground typing gives it an offensive advantage against the apocalypse duo.
• Chronic Hero Syndrome
• Meaningful Name: His full name sounds like "antlion," which is what Flygon is based on. His last name also suggests bravery.
• The Determinator
• Drama-Preserving Handicap: An off-page incident leaves him unable to fight alongside the heroes.
• Haunted House Historian: He knows a lot about the legends and the prophecy due to his and his ancestor's involvement, and shares this information with the heroes. He doesn't know everything on the subject, though.
• The Quiet One
• Screw Destiny: He's not about to let the world end Because Destiny Says So.
• Uncatty Resemblance: His outfit looks a lot like Flygon, especially with the cape.
• Weapon Of Choice: His main Pokemon is a Flygon. A Mega Flygon.

Normally I don't bump threads, but I really don't want this one to die so soon.

I'll try to help get this ball rolling, especially since I was someone who said they'd be interested in having this thread in the first place. Honestly I meant to respond sooner, but between the Constructive Criticism thread and trying to find time to write in my own life I was feeling a little burned out.

If I recall, this is a character that is part of your superhero Pokemon fanfic, or at least I'm assuming as such. I'm a little confused about your use of the tropes Screw Destiny and how it fits in with the prophecy you mentioned earlier in the post. I get that he tries to help the protagonists as much as he can, but to what extent can he exert his assistance? Can he actively subvert this prophecy much like how the Pirate Code is really just more of a guideline, or are there strict rules that bind him?

I remember mentioning this in feedback for your other characters too, but I think it needs repeating: he has vague motivations and goals. Helping others any way he can does not tell me what he hopes to accomplish. What stakes does he have in the overall narrative? What does he want as a result of his actions? If he does good deeds, is it for some sense of fame? Is he trying to redeem his or his family's name? Is he trying to live up to values bestowed upon him? Helping others, however altruistic, is still a flat motivation; there needs to be some purpose behind it.

That being said, he sounds like he has the potential to be a cool character who is a good supportive force for the heroes. Flesh him out more and I can easily see him being an asset to your narrative.

—

I was trying to think of which character I wanted to pick since I have a fairly large supporting cast in one of my stories. Ultimately I've decided to go with the main character's father (said character, Raz, has also been posted in the Hero Critique thread, but I don't know how to link to my post). Most of my beta readers and friends view him as a Base Breaker: some love him, others hate him. I'm curious what he'll sound like on paper.

Name: Nerharr Quartz

Age: 26 (Part 1), 32 (Part 2), 34 (Part 3), 45 (Part 5)

Personality: Withdrawn and not prone to socializing unless he's in a setting where it would be inappropriate to remain silent. Nerharr cares about the people close to him, but has difficulty expressing it, and in some cases - such as that of his son - creates distance out of fear of inadvertently hurting them, which in turn just creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. His penchant for drinking brings out the more vulnerable side of him, and he often expresses his despair for life and his frustrations while drunk.

Appearance: Like Raz, Nerharr is a catfolk, meaning he resembles a humanoid cat person (such as the khajiit from Elder Scrolls). Also like his son, Nerharr has grey fur with black tabby markings, though unlike him his eyes are a light blue. Being in poverty, Nerharr wears simple clothes, many of which have tears and patches.

Abilities: Nerharr has no special abilities; he's just a regular guy. However, unlike most other catfolk in their town, Nerharr is actually well-read, and when he was younger he actually often enjoyed reading.

Weaknesses: Suffers from severe depression and alcoholism, which in turn hasn't made him the best of fathers. He also keeps emotional distance from his son out of good intentions, believing that his presence will only ruin him, which in turn only causes more problems and more hurt. However he tries to change this behavior with his daughter after she's born.

Goals: From pretty early on it's clear that his only goal is to endure what life's given him while trying to be a good father to Raz. Halfway through Part 1 it's revealed that he's been having an affair with a married woman, which he tries to keep secret while also clinging to whatever threads of stability he has left with his son. It all falls apart when his lover becomes pregnant with his daughter, Dirna, and dies in childbirth, which sends Nerharr into a further downward spiral. In Part 2 he doesn't really have any goals, and is more or less resigned to his lot in life. However, after Nerharr strikes Raz during a heated argument, his son runs away, leaving Nerharr even more full of self-hate. He isn't seen again until Part 3 from Terasas' point of view, where he seems to have improved as a parent and is extremely protective of his daughter (whom should be noted is Terasas' half-sister via his mother). Nerharr at this point seems to be trying to be a better father to Dirna, but still suffers from alcoholism. He also tries to learn where Raz went after he left Terasas behind, but receives no answer beyond that he's still alive. By Part 5 he's overcome his alcoholism and attempts to recover his relationship with Raz after seeing how far his son has fallen into the same vices Nerharr once suffered. He sets himself into the mindset that while he may never be deserving of his son's forgiveness and love, he'll never stop trying to earn it all the same.

Role: Nerharr is Raz's father, and as such early on plays a slight authoritative part in Raz's life. He's also a fairly large component of Raz's shattered home life. That being said, he's also a shield against Raz's abusive mother, and often purposefully redirects her tirades and manipulation to himself in order to keep his son from further harm. However, her manipulations succeed, and as such Raz places all the blame of his childhood on his father rather than the large parts that should've been attributed to his mother. Upon Raz's return in Part 5, Nerharr realizes fairly quickly that Raz is dealing with his demons in a similar way that he once did, and tries recovering his relationship with him. After some harsh (and well-deserved) rejections, Raz eventually relents, and Nerharr becomes a supportive figure in helping Raz come to terms with his criminal past; in fact Nerharr is the first person Raz tells about his activities in organized crime upon returning to Coalfell.

Backstory: Nerharr is a denizen of Coalfell: a poor rural mining town. As much as Raz knows Nerharr gradually lost his family from a young age, the most devastating to him being his older brother's death in a tunnel collapse. By the age of 17 Nerharr was the only living member of his family remaining, and soon after he fell into his depression and alcoholism. A year later he met a woman named Cisna, and what started out as a fling turned into an actual relationship. Over time, though, Nerharr became suspicious of her behavior and noticed subtle ways she'd manipulate him and others, as well as holes in the stories she'd tell him about herself. Before he could confront her on it however, Cisna notified Nerharr that she was pregnant with his child. The two married to save face, and Raz was born not long after. It was after his birth that Cisna's true nature came on full display, and Nerharr realized that his son was now a bargaining chip in her schemes.

Relevant Tropes:

• Absurdly Youthful Father: He became a parent at only 18.

• Alcoholic Parent: Obviously

• Armor Piercing Slap: More of a punch, but it's this strike that ultimately drives Raz to run away from home. The only thing that keeps it from being Why Did You Make Me Hit You? is Nerharr's near instantaneous horror and remorse at the fact that he'd hit his son.

• Because I Said So: His justification for most things when Raz is a child.

• Big Brother Worship: Frequently speaks highly of his dead brother Marah. Part of his despair comes from the belief that he's failed to follow in his footsteps.

• Defrosting Ice King: Becomes this as the story unfolds.

• Despair Event Horizon: Hits it at the end of Part 1. His lover dies in childbirth, he's lost his job and forced to work in the mines, and all the money he'd hid for years for his son had been taken by his wife when she left. It's no wonder why he's a broken man six years later in Part 2.

• Died in Your Arms Tonight: Dies in Raz's arms after saving his life.

• Driven to Suicide: Never explicitly stated, but Nerharr does imply in Part 5 that he's made attempts in the past.

• Give Him a Normal Life: His goal for Raz, wanting to raise enough money to send him away in the hopes that he could live in comfort. He fails spectacularly after giving everything he'd earned in secret to his wife in order to keep her silence about his affair.

• Go Out with a Smile: Nerharr happily passes on knowing that his son loves him and forgives him.

• Heroic Sacrifice: When Coalfell is attacked and destroyed at the end of Part 5, Nerharr distracts the raider leader by attacking him with a pickax. Although Nerharr is swiftly and mortally stabbed, his distraction allows Raz to recover and land the killing blow on the leader.

• Improvised Weapon: Makes a good use of his pickax later on.

• Parental Neglect: Inadvertently causes this, as his attempts to not be a bad influence on Raz instead inflicts neglect through his avoidance.

• Parental Substitute: Ironically despite the above, Nerharr becomes this for a boy near Raz's age named Abrah.

• Sole Survivor: Of his birth family.

• Surprise Pregnancy: Both of his children were on accident, though with different mothers.

• Walking Shirtless Scene: Serves as Fan Disservice. After being fired in Part 1, Nerharr stays aimlessly indoors wearing only his undergarments and drinking. He appears appropriately disheveled and unkempt.

• You Are Better Than You Think You Are: Has this mentality towards his son in Part 5.

• You Remind Me of X: The "myself" variation towards Abrah Silver: Raz's former childhood bully. Nerharr takes him under his wing between parts 2 and 3 due to the fact that the kid reminds Nerharr of himself and doesn't want to see him go down the same road.

• Your Cheating Heart: Has an affair with another woman, who also happens to be married.

Edited by randomdude4 on Jul 26th 2018 at 9:12:32 AM

"Can't make an omelette without breaking some children." -Bur

Thanks for the feedback. It seems vagueness is a recurring problem for me.

You've done a great job with Nerharr. His backstory and Character Development are very solid and well-thought-out. You were wondering what he sounded like on paper, and I think he sounds like a pretty nice guy at heart, albeit with a couple of issues, which works very well with his arc. Overall, he's a very engaging and believable character.

---

And now I'll answer your questions:

The prophecy states that Anthony will only be able to watch helplessly as the chaos unfolds (more or less in those words). However, it's a case of Exact Words - he's not in any condition to fight the Olympus Mons himself, but nothing says he can't help anyone else prepare beforehand.

As for his desire to help people, I did briefly mention this, but may have been too vague in doing so: He had been on the receiving end of such kindness many times before, and this encouraged him to do likewise. In other words, his motivation is gratitude. Additionally, his position (which I didn't specify to avoid spoiling too much) comes with a responsibility to protect the region, which is a factor in his involvement with the current plot.

Edited by AgentKirin on Jul 26th 2018 at 8:10:18 AM

He sounds okay. I'm bad at giving constructive critism/explaining my opinions, but i like his backstory.

---

My story is a short Mature Animal Story set After the End Humanity's Wake where Berlin and Fuchs have crossed the dried-up Baltic sea in search for the fabled Paradise, thinking a book they carry will show them the way. (The Book isn't actually even a book but a document about a dumping site for nuclear waste. The characters can't read the text and only see the map and the radioactive hazard sign they mistake for an angel, assuming it must mark the passage to Paradise). The characters are joined by a bandit and chased down by a cult, but reach the place near the end. I originally got the idea from this [1] a few years ago.

Berlin

A wannabe occultist raven from the area that used to be Berlin.

• Blind Seer: Thinks herself as this, but it's more likely she's hallucinating.
• Line-of-Sight Name: Her mother named her after a sign on the side of a road.
• Clever Crows
• Germanic Depressives
• Straight Gay
• Together in Death: Dives into the flooding cavern after Fuchs falls. They swim to a rock but can't get up and start succumbing to radiation poisoning. The last shot shows their corpses embracing each other.
• Designated Hero: She's not heroic, even adknowledging she could lead other animals to Paradise too, but wants to have it for herself and Fuchs alone.
• Maligned Mixed Marriage: Left the area that used to be Germany because Fuch's family didn't accept the relationship.
• Witch Doctor: Found The Book during a fit of hallucinations when she ate poisonous mushrooms out of a belief it'd let her communicate with the ancestors.
• Functional Addict: Uses some kind of drugs. I don't mention what because i have no idea what or if nothing at all has such an effect on crows.

Fuchs

A mutt from the same general area as Berlin.

• Big Friendly Dog: An irish wolfhound mix.
• Wide-Eyed Idealist
• Straight Gay: In a relationship with Berlin.
• Comfort the Dying: When Berlin succumbs to radiation poisoning the fastest due to her small size and Fuchs isn't very far behind, she lies to Berlin that she can see Brion waiting for them in Paradise at the water's edge, and tells her to hold on.
• Break the Cutie
• The Fundamentalist: Believes the world ended because "The Others" turned their backs on Brion. She also cheerfully tells Rokka they deserved it and everything bad that ever happens is the will of Brion.
• Predator Turned Protector: Saved Berlin from becoming her family's dinner.

Rokka

A fox bandit roaming the ruins of Helsinki.

• Cunning Like a Fox: Other characters assume this but it's actually averted, as Rokka isn't as smart as she lets on.
• Ax-Crazy: Can act normal when she wants, but isn't much better person than Andrei, and only cares for Paradise and keeps the protagonists around to show her the way here.
• Bandit Clan: The last survivor of one, on the implied courtesy of Adie. Rokka near-exlusively targets the cult.
• I'm a Humanitarian / Sapient Eat Sapient / Eating the Enemy : She's a cannibal^note (the animals only consider eating animals of the same genus/species cannibalism). Granted, the food is scarce in the area. Though there's the fact she could as well have left to look for better areas like most other animals in Helsinki did.
• Dynamic Entry: Her Establishing Character Moment is to lunge at Berlin in an attempt to eat her.
• Every Man Has His Price: Fuchs manages to bribe her into letting Berlin go by promising to take her to the Paradise.
• Old Soldier: Fought in the war mentioned below.
• Great Offscreen War: Tells Berlin that the animals of Helsinki waged a war (mainly between canines and felines) which ran the animal government down and gave Andrei's cult an opportunity to rise.
• Heroic Sacrifice: To buy Berlin and Fuchs time to get inside the building, Rokka fights Andrei and the cultists, killing most of them, dying of blood loss afterwards. It turns out to be All for Nothing.

Andrei

A lynx leading an unnamed cult in the ruins of Helsinki.

• Crazy Survivalist
• As the Good Book Says...: Can read and applies Bible quotes rather liberally.
• Dark Messiah: She tells her followers she's the daughter of Brion and will lead them to Paradise. Actually she has no idea what she's doing and just pursues after Berlin, Fuchs, and Rokka after learning about The Book.
• Impaled with Extreme Prejudice: Rokka impales her to some kind of a spike.
• All for Nothing: She can't get free from the spike, but manages to reach for The Book (which was left behind by fleeing Berlin) and realizes what the place they're in really is. It's a dumbing site for nuclear waste and "The Angels" are warning signs.
• Incest Is Relative: Used to shag her brother Adie. Rokka killing him before the story's beginning didn't stop that.
• Mummies at the Dinner Table: Keeps Adie's corpse in the back of the bus she lives in and pretends he's alive, even asking it for advice.
• Ambiguous Disorder: There's obviously something seriously wrong with her but the animals don't know what to call it.
• Believing Their Own Lies: Believes herself and Adie the children of a god.

Andrei's cult

A mixed group of felines and canines that follows Andrei.

• Blind Obedience: The most high-ranking members.
• Brainwashed and Crazy: Not all of them, some are basically prisoners but like with real cults, they can't just walk away.
• Might Makes Right: Andrei and Adie were the strongest, the scariest, and (allegedly) the most godly.
• Screw This, I'm Outta Here: When Rokka impales Andrei and kills most of the actual fanatics, the surviving cultists realize they are now free, and run away.
• Cult: Some of them DO want to leave, but can't actually get away with it.
• All Hail the Great God Mickey!: See below.
• Wretched Hive: Most other animals have left the city ruins to the cult.

Brion

A god everybody's talking about, who's believed to be waiting for the animals in Paradise.

• Posthumous Character
• All Hail the Great God Mickey!: "The icon" depicting him is actually a random portrait from a ruined building. Coincidentally, his picture is also in The Book, because he was the facility's leader.
• Humans Through Alien Eyes: The animals see him as a borderline-lovecraftian creature.

Edited by Nukeli on Apr 23rd 2020 at 12:18:58 PM

~ * Bleh * ~ (Looking for a russian-speaker to consult about names and words for a thing)

Bump

~ * Bleh * ~ (Looking for a russian-speaker to consult about names and words for a thing)

I don't have anything to add, but the thread title does have a point.

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.