During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. " to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The problem with Krane's write-up is that he got such a long laundry list that I find it hard to condense it without leaving out important details to his actions.
Before I forget, where do I propose this image◊ for Frieza. I tried to propose it at the image pickin' morgue, but I couldn't.
Why so serious?There's a few stickling things in Mephiles' writeup I'm noticing.
"Mephiles the Dark is the utterly insane malignant conscience of Solaris taken physical form and the one responsible for arranging most of the events of the game..."
Just "malignant" is fine. Also, I don't really think that "physical form" needs a pothole to Eldritch Abomination; he's the mind of one, sure, but he doesn't really fit that description until he actually becomes Solaris.
"...later cold-blooded temporarily kills Sonic himself..."
Wording here is awkward. "cold-bloodedly" would make it much better to read.
Thank you.
edited 13th Feb '16 12:16:50 PM by Scraggle
I tweaked Mephiles's and added Mendoza.
edited 13th Feb '16 12:17:33 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsOkay, I have one question involving Kai that to me is a big deciding factor:
Is stealing an imprisoning someone's soul as a living battery WORSE than killing or not?
Because let's look at this factor: a portion of Kai's victims were ALREADY in the afterlife and had already passed on, including Oogway himself.
This means Kai is effectively robbing people of their after life. And FULLY intended to finish what Shen started and finish off the Panda's in this way, for LESS of a reason than Shen had (Shen was basically trying to avert a prophecy directed at himself, Kai is just a power hungry beast).
We also know from Kai being five hundred years old and his own words Kai is immortal, meaning they would have been like that as long as Kai lived, with neither the ability to die and move on nor do anything for that matter, or in the case of those who he captured in the afterlife, having their final rest denied them to serve as a battery for a demon like Kai.
At least Shen's victims passed on to the after life, which this movie fully established exists as an actual place. Given Kai SPECIFICALLY said that he stole the Chi of EVERY Kung Fu Master in the Spirit World, that would include Master Rhino who Shen killed.
If Kai steals your chi and enslaves you to his will, there's no heaven, no hell, no other form of afterlife, no reincarnation, no anything. Just being his slave for as long as he's still around, which would likely be an eternity.
For me personally, I'd say Kai is because to me, his methods are WORSE than killing people because he doesn't just kill you, he takes away your afterlife.
What about Amon (Starcraft Legacy of the Void) and Quinella (Sword Art Online) they been voted unanimously by the forum but they have yet to have to have a write up or mention these couple of days, when will they get write up so they can get properly introduce to the CM system.
In case I haven't voted to both Amon and Quinella.
I already responded about Amon - I would prefer that someone else do an example writeup.
(Which reminds me, I still need to do an effortpost on Narud/Duran).
Hey, NJ, can you PM me his crimes or an effortpost link, and I'll be glad to do it?
If we don't create a subpage (I'm fine either way), or even if we do, should we move Burgess and Daun to Comics and Lit, respectively?
P.S. Lighty, you can take the Deadpool effortpost, but w/o spoilers: How is it?
edited 13th Feb '16 1:41:20 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsThis was my effortpost for Amon. A fair amount of it can be pared down since it was meant to be intelligible to people who knew nothing about the setting.
Okay, after FINALLY having read the effortpost (or at least skimmed) to get a clear picture, I think I'll vote for Amon.
- As you said "it's a space opera RTS series, so planetary populations being destroyed and the like is fairly common among the villains...", but it seems he does more than just one. Seems like he's basically responsible for much of the conflict in the series.
- As for him being a potential WIE: Seems like we can take Rohana's word that he isn't. Although, could it be possible that, even if he isn't a WIE, maybe he's deluded himself into thinking he is that he can't see what he's actually become?
Okay, I've managed to slim down the Victor Krane write up a bit, and made several changes as I was a bit unhappy with how the initial write up turned out, how this:
Lab Rats: Victor Krane was the evilest villain in a show filled with dangerous people. A power-hungry billionaire, he initially worked with Douglas to brainwash Adam, Bree and Chase. Krane also upgraded Douglas’s technology granting him vast powers. After Chase manged to resist, Krane immediately attempted to force his siblings to kill him. Krane then planned to murder Adam, Bree and Chase unable to cope with any rivals to his power existing, causing Douglas to betray him. Krane kidnapped and locked Leo and Tasha in a giant oven to try and force Donald to give him the Lab Rats. His attempts failing, Krane was revealed to have been secretly building himself a bionic army, growing around a hundred kids—mostly teenagers, but a few were preteens—in his lab and experimenting upon them to give them bionic abilities. He brainwashed and deprived them of any individuality. Its revealed Krane even tormented S-1, constantly experimenting on her, leaving her traumatized when liberated. Convinced his powers made him superior he tried to conquer the earth and brainwash all humanity. After his seeming death it was discovered he had installed a virus within all his former soldiers so that in the event he died they would all die to, refusing to allow them to live any life that didn’t benefit him. In “Space Colony”, it’s revealed he survived and was rescued by Dr. Gao. Infiltrating Donald’s colony, they begin kidnapping and brainwashing the fifty colonists, along with Donald and Tasha, to turn them into a new army of mindless bionic soldiers and launching a missile that would wipe out all life on earth so Krane could rebuild everything in his own image. Once thwarted, Krane hijacked a space pod and attacked the Lab Rats and colonists ship declaring "If I can't have my bionic army then I’m taking you out with them."
edited 13th Feb '16 2:44:32 PM by MGD107
Hmm, 324...better.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsWell 321 now.
Really I'm not sure what else I can cut.
I noticed a spelling error on the Mephiles write-up. It says "upon breaking own" when it should say "upon breaking out".
Whoops, nice catch. Fixed now.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsSpeaking of typos in write-ups, I was surfing through Monster.X Men, and I noticed this in Apocalypse's entry.
"...and effecting killilng Stryfe by bodyjacking him."
That should be killing. Yeah, call me a Grammar Nazi, but that just doesn't look right in the entry.
Why so serious?Okay I've now managed to get Krane down to 313 words, is that enough?
That one's a mess. (G)enetecist should be geneticist, while technoorganic, metaplague, and likeminded should all be hyphenated. I requested the changes.
Maybe. Please add it to YMMV.Lab Rats (with the potholes) and I'll look at it tomorrow (along with the Judge Cal effortpost).
edited 13th Feb '16 2:58:21 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM DraftsThank you, but I'm afraid I'm temporarily unable to make edits. Could someone else please add this write up:
Victor Krane was the worst in a show filled with dangerous people. A power-hungry billionaire, he initially worked with Douglas to brainwash Adam, Bree and Chase. Krane also upgraded Douglas’s technology granting him vast powers. After Chase manged to resist, Krane immediately attempted to force his siblings to kill him. Krane then planned to murder Adam, Bree and Chase unable to cope with any rivals to his power existing, causing Douglas to betray him. Krane kidnapped and locked Leo and Tasha in a giant oven to try and force Donald to give him the Lab Rats. His attempts failing, Krane was revealed to have been secretly building himself a bionic army, growing around a hundred kids—mostly teenagers, but a few were preteens—in his lab and experimenting upon them to give them bionic abilities. He brainwashed and deprived them of any individuality. Its revealed Krane even tormented S-1, constantly experimenting on her, leaving her traumatized when liberated. Convinced his powers made him superior he tried to conquer the earth and brainwash all humanity. After his seeming death it was discovered he had installed a virus within all his former soldiers so that in the event he died they would all die to, refusing to allow them to live any life that didn’t benefit him. In “Space Colony”, it’s revealed he survived and was rescued by Dr. Gao. Infiltrating Donald’s colony, they begin kidnapping and brainwashing the fifty colonists, along with Donald and Tasha, to turn them into a new army of mindless bionic soldiers and launching a missile that would wipe out all life on earth so Krane could rebuild everything in his own image. Once thwarted, Krane hijacked a space pod and attacked the Lab Rats and colonists ship declaring "If I can't have my bionic army then I’m taking you out with them."
edited 13th Feb '16 3:40:32 PM by MGD107
"Evilest villain" sounds somewhat awkward. Maybe "the worst in a show full of dangerous people" would look better.
Why so serious?Yeah your right, I implemented the change. Plus that brings it down to 312 words.
You couldn't add it to the Lab Rats YMMV page for me, could you?
I think ACW will do that.
Why so serious?Well he asked me to, and as I presently can't edit, I was hoping some one else would.
edited 15th Feb '16 7:01:33 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts