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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#140301: Dec 18th 2018 at 11:39:40 AM

Yes to Conrad.

And please remove the Knight of Cerebus pothole in Dick Hardy since he's an one episode villain who doesn't change the tone of the series in the long term.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#140303: Dec 18th 2018 at 11:55:44 AM

ba dum tsss

In approval of the rewrite itself, too.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#140304: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:04:44 PM

That pothole's removed. In case you missed it, here's the rewrite. I've submitted it, and then when that's changed I'll start on the Cartoon Network stuff (I'm almost done with the Creepypasta stuff):

  • The Powerpuff Girls: One-shot villain Dick Hardly, from season 4's two-parter "Knock it Off", is a former colleague of Professor Utonium defined by his greed. Seeing financial profit in Utonium's daughters, Dick manipulates the girls into giving him samples of Chemical X and mass produces crude replicas of the girls that deteriorate easily. Displaying his callousness towards his sapient creations by ordering a perfect replica of Buttercup melted down for its excess Chemical X, Dick traps the real Powerpuff Girls and slowly, painfully drains them while boasting that he could kill the girls and have Utonium as his slave at the same time. With no charm or comedic traits to his name, Dick was a monster even before drinking Chemical X.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#140305: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:19:31 PM

And here we go:

  • 1999: The owner of Caledon Local 21, known by his stage name Mr. Bear, was a Satanist who viewed all of humanity as being garbage. He decided to take out his contempt towards the human race by sacrificing children to the Devil, doing so through the channel that he owned. He created several shows geared towards children, and he used said shows to urge his young viewers into writing letters to him that stated their interest in becoming guests for his episodes. He would then murder the children that answered his call, and he would film the murders. He cut one child's fingers off with a pair of scissors, forced another kid's hand into a fire, beat a man to death with a baseball bat for trying to rescue his child, and went on to burn 16 children alive.
  • The Alice Killings: The Alice Killer was a Serial Killer who viewed death as being greater than life. He would abduct his victims, often when they were alone, and he would then murder them. dismember the bodies beyond recognition, and he would leave a playing card behind. He was also shown on a security camera with a moving garbage bag in his hands. In one of his murders, he sewed a crown on one of his victim's heads most likely when they were still alive, and he also broke in through a window to murder two of his victims while they were still sleeping. The Alice Killer also ultimately caused one of the victims' mothers to commit suicide out of grief, and he also caused her husband to endure several therapy sessions.
  • ''Beware the Good Samaritan: Bobby Fields was a vicious gang leader who terrorized the neighborhood. Bobby and his gang would mug people at knife-point and beat homeless people to death for fun. When the mysterious Nazar stopped the gang from killing a homeless man, Bobby vowed to take revenge on Nazar, stating he would torture and kill him. The gang later ambushed Nazar while he was walking home. As the gang attempted to kill Nazar, a monstrous entity known as "The Judge" showed up and began "punishing" the group for their crimes. As Bobby attempted to flee, leaving his gang behind to be killed, Nazar knocked him out and took him back to his home. Nazar scolded Bobby for his crimes, but stated that he would not harm him since he was a pacifist who believed in turning the other cheek. As Nazar prepared to free Bobby, Bobby prepared to kill Nazar despite believing that Nazar had saved him from The Judge. The Judge appeared and reminded Nazar that there was one crime Nazar would not allow to go unpunished: child molestation. Bobby and his gang had raped four underage girls, aged twelve to fourteen. Once Bobby made it clear he felt no remorse, saying they were asking for it, Nazar decided to kill Bobby.
  • Beyond Redemption: Lyndon Wesley, also known as Wild West, is a Serial Killer wanted for 21 counts of murder, with victims including women and children. At the age of seven, he murdered his brother by pushing him down a mine shaft. Wesley proceeded to murder his father for beating him out of revenge for killing his brother, something the father knew but couldn't prove. Going on a killing spree for fun, Wesley is finally stopped by Bill Johnson after Wesley invades a home and kills the owner along with his wife and child.
  • The Blood Keeper: The titular "blood keeper" was the leader of the Bloodlights, a cult of serial killers from the 1800s. The blood keeper held a "game" to serve as a trial for new recruits. The blood keeper kept vials filled with the blood of their murder victims, and divided the new recruits into two teams, as they tried to steal the blood from him. He told the recruits to kill any members of the opposing team they saw, as well as any innocent bystanders they came across. Any recruits who failed to steal the blood would be killed. In total, the blood keeper was responsible for more than 50 murders due to his game. The blood keeper was killed by a man who infiltrated the Bloodlights and forced a boy to lure the blood keeper out of his crypt. The blood keeper would have killed the boy if the man hadn't have stopped him.
  • Borrasca: Sheriff Graham Walker seems like a caring family man and protective town sheriff at first, but later reveals himself to be a twisted and ruthless crime boss who runs a Human Trafficking empire. Walker moves his family to Drisking to escape scrutiny for pimping out teenage girls, and to get involved, and take part in, Drisking's conspiracy of mass murder, abduction, rape and impregnation of numerous women; notably having his own young daughter Whitney kidnapped to be made his Sex Slave and brood mare, raping her dozens of times. When his son Sam learns of the operation, Walker has him framed for the battery of his friend Kyle. When Whitney herself dies, Walker murders his wife to have a new daughter in hopes of making a replacement sex slave. Walker also usurps the Prescott control of the operation, withholding the town's benefits of the operation for himself. When Sam and his friend Kimber (who Walker also raped) confront Walker, he beats Sam and intends to mold Sam into his heir and make Kimber a new sex slave, before attempting to kill them, telling Sam he could always have another son to replace him.
  • Bright Eyes: Teddy is a monstrous entity disguised as an ordinary teddy bear who preys on children. Projecting an image of a guardian who appears to children who need him, Teddy convinces the protagonist that the Bright Eyes are wicked creatures who hide their true forms with the skin of children. In truth, they are strongly implied to be the ghosts of his past victims trying to warn the protagonist away from suffering the same fate. Teddy manipulates the protagonist into following him to a small shed in the woods which is littered with the bones of children Teddy has killed. Having the protagonist where he wants him, Teddy partially sheds his disguise, revealing two long arms with knives for hands, and prepares to claim another victim.
  • Don't Turn Around: Nancy James is a Serial Killer who targets children and babysitters, amassing an enormous body count while delighting in tormenting her victims psychologically, luring them into traps and dispatching them with great relish. Nancy places no age limit on her victims, even killing a baby at one point, and even writes a book to guide would-be child killers in achieving in their goals even easier. When she forms a deep enmity with FBI agent Warren, Nancy threatens a theme park with a bomb to lure Warren to his death before realizing Warren was faking to lure her out. Kidnapping another agent, Nancy threatens to murder him if Warren doesn't reveal himself—only to dispatch the man regardless and taunting Warren over it.
  • Everyman HYBRID: HABIT is a supernatural entity capable of taking control of people's bodies, using his powers to force his still-aware host to sadistically murder people for his own entertainment. While possessing Evan, HABIT forces him to strangle Daniel to death, brutally tortures Jeff and Steph over a protracted period of time before killing them, and eating the baby that Evan had fathered with Steph. When Evan is released from HABIT's grasp, HABIT gives him a Healing Factor that leaves him unable to die. When Vincent summons HABIT to get some answers, HABIT just insults him and forces Vince to lure in victims to torture and kill. HABIT then traps Vince in a room for two years, giving him a healing factor in order to psychologically torture him and prevent him from killing himself. On the blog Can You See the Words, HABIT posts writings made by his victims where he would kill scores of people brutally and let Slender Man have the survivors, and reveals that several of the world's most notorious serial killers and war criminals—including Albert Fish, Josef Mengele, and Jack the Ripper—were his doing. In the crossover with MLAnderson0, HABIT tortures Shaun Andersen to death in a plot to lure in his brother Michael/Patrick. Standing in sharp contrast to the mysterious Slender Man and the animalistic Rake, HABIT is a sadist who enjoys what he does.
  • From Hell I Write trilogy: Eileen Hoffmister is a Wicked Witch in direct service to Satan himself. She abducts people—-usually children—and offers them to Satan to transform into zombie slaves damned to Hell upon death. In the prequel, Eileen and her husband, Leo, capture Stella, a young girl who stumbled across their cottage in the woods. They throw her in a basement with their zombie servant, Lester, and attempt to offer her to Satan. When he rejects her, Eileen plans to burn her. In the original story, she and Leo force their adopted son, David, to participate in Satanic rituals and abuse him. Eileen stalks Patrick Williams and his family; abducted his older brothers (and is implied to have castrated one of them); allows herself to be possessed; and chases Patrick and his 5-year-old sister Nancy and eviscerates their babysitter, Betty, when she tries to protect the children. The two are then brought back to the house, where Eileen kills Leo for disobeying her (he attempted to rape Nancy despite her not being ready), and is revealed to have zombified Patrick's family, along with missing children and finally Patrick himself. Twenty years later, in the sequel, Nancy finds a still-possessed Eileen in the home of her boyfriend Jackson, with Elieen making a final attempt to kill Nancy before going to Hell for good.
  • link Hyraaq Tobit series, by K. Banning Kellum: Mr. Thaddeus Pinkerton is the cruel master of the Hyraaq Tobit cult and ultimate ruler of the city of Delphia. In addition to setting up centuries of religious practices that includes ritual suicide and mass cannibalism, Pinkerton also traps souls in the Red Star for eternal torment for crossing or failing him. Pinkerton makes a deal with Blain Kellerman to save his comatose wife at the risk of losing his soul through a series of rigged tests, only reluctantly making good out of obligation when beaten, and sends his henchmen to the Red Star. Pinkerton also threatens to send Father Lance Madison, whom he corrupted centuries ago, to the Red Star for letting Derrick Reynolds escape, before sending the Sisters of Tobit to hunt down the protagonists and run Delphia. Pinkerton also hosts a show to preach to the children of Delphia, having the children eat two actors alive; he also helped facilitate the corruption of Tabitha Shaw into one of the Sisters of Tobit, and places Gregory Leary in Madison's place when the latter is killed. Pinkerton finally reveals Tobit to the world in order to start the apocalypse, and when the resistance topples his empire, Pinkerton summons Tobit to kill the survivors; it's then revealed that Tobit himself is the child of two godlike beings that Pinkerton befriended and manipulated to gain power, something that gets him sent to the Red Star as punishment.
  • Joe Montana Saves The Princess, by K. Banning Kellum: Father Haller is the leader of the Foundation, a cult that worships and seeks to release the demon lord Un and bring about Hell on Earth in exchange for world domination. The subject of Urban Legend, the Foundation is rumored to conduct Human Sacrifice, and when Joe Lawrence investigates these rumors, Haller has him murdered. Seeking the last living female descendant of a king that stopped the Foundation's plans thousands of years ago, they track her down to Cynthia Tierney, and take advantage of her mother's cancer and families financial issues to lure her into a trap, seeking to use her blood to summon Un. When Joe's brother Brian investigates the cult, and befriends Cynthia, Haller eventually captures them both, and begins to slowly cut up Cynthia and force Brian to watch. When Brian and Cynthia fight back Haller defiantly tries to kill them while facing defeat, promising to make Joe's death seem more "merciful" in comparison to what he has in store for Brian.
  • Patient 88: The psychopathic Mr. Richards is a depraved Serial Killer who kidnaps women, locks them in his shed, and slowly starves them to death to see how long a human could last without food. He's repeated this process to at least eight women, and kickstarts the story when he ambushes and kidnaps the young Tavy Mord, the titular Patient 88, intending to do the same to her. Knocking her unconscious and dragging her to his basement due to the fact she couldn't talk to him, Richards begins starving her. When Tavy finds the corpses of his previous victims, Richards beats her unconscious again and cuts out her eyes. Though the ultimate effect is unintentional on his part, when Tavy is finally found and Richards is arrested, Tavy has a fatal heart attack from the shock of the incident and the fact that Richards got off easy for his crimes, and she turns into the murderous, undead Patient 88. Motivated by little more than sick curiosity, Mr. Richards stood out even in the face of literal monsters, including the one he created.
  • Pen Pal: In the original Creepypasta, the protagonist's (nicknamed "Dathan") nondescript, unnamed stalker manages to establish himself as an irredeemable monster despite never even appearing in the story proper. A pedophile who happens to receive a letter from the protagonist as a kindergartner as part of a school project, this man spends the next ten years obsessively following him; jealously murders anyone whom the protagonist is close to, even his cat; tricks the protagonist's senile old neighbor into letting him into her house, then cuts her apart because she was kind to the protagonist; runs over and steals the phone from a girl the protagonist had a crush on, pretending to be her while texting him, as she dies in the hospital; and finally kidnaps the protagonist's best friend Josh and holds him captive for two years, forcing him to change his appearance to look like the protagonist and doing other things to him that are not elaborated upon. Finally, he tricks Josh's father into burying him and Josh alive. When his crimes are discovered after his death, they scar the protagonist and those around him for life.
  • The Rake vs Dogman, by Tom Sonski: Officer Nathaniel Dixon is a Dirty Cop of the highest order and the main human antagonist of the story. Quickly established to be a deranged and entitled psychopath, Dixon has a history of assault and killings that were swept under the rug, and is introduced as he is encouraging a kid to torture and mutilate a kitten; he briefly considers putting the kitten out of its misery, but quickly decides not to. Dixon holds a grudge against Murray Keeplin for battering and blinding him in the past when he attempted to kidnap her, and plans something "special" for her to get his revenge. When he and the others first encounter the pack of werewolf-like dogmen, Dixon callously shoots his fellow officer Barclay and throws him to the pack. He makes his "arrest" of Murray his top priority, even in the face of all the danger they're in. When his crimes are exposed, he steals Rookie Henry Keller's gun as he's killed, and immediately shoots Janine. It's also discovered he tortured his former partner to death when she refused to help him kidnap Murray. Eventually, he tortures Jason with a pair of bolt cutters when he helps Murray and Holly escape, before stalking them through the woods in a desperate bid to kill them both.
  • Stan Frederick: Connor, or Lines, is Stan's brother-in-law and his most personal foe. The founding member of WeMustCollect, Connor harvests children for the Slender Man and despises Stan for feeling remorse for his actions as a member of WeMustCollect. Wanting to recruit new members, Connor hunts those who refuse to join him; Connor murdered a YouTuber and tortured a boy for declining his offer. Kidnapping his own sister Susan, Connor threatens to murder her if Stan doesn't harvest a child for him. Four years after his death, Connor returns as Lines and murders Stan's therapist, drives his friend into committing suicide and causes the death of a little girl that was affiliated with him.
  • The Tale of Robert Elm: Valentine Ambrose Lombard is the leader of the Black Circle. While in its early days the cult was founded to prevent the spread of a plague, he seems to have taken up the mantle of leader for no other reason than as an exercise of his sadism and depravity. Lombard tampered with the mind of Robert Elm's lover, causing him to develop abusive tendencies, with the intention of luring him directly into the cult's arms to murder him and neutralize the threat he poses to his order. When Elm is assaulted by a zealous follower, Lombard nurses him back to health, all while slipping doses of human flesh into his meals—acquired from various captives held in a shack—to nullify Elm's power over him. Just as Elm is almost back on his feet, Lombard and his followers rehearse a ritual wherein he plans to sacrifice Elm, using the follower who assaulted Elm as practice, eating his liver after slaying him.
  • The Toadman Saga: Keith "Toadman" Lesler was a Serial Killer who was executed for murdering dozens of children. On the brink of death, the Shadowbeast offers him the opportunity to return every 30 years. In the first part, he targets Abram Linfeld, beheading his two friends Donny and Angie and tying there heads to his waist. He then attacks Abram, chopping off his leg, the former only surviving thanks to a crate of fireworks. In the second part, a policeman, Tyler Smith, comes to investigate the murders. When he and local beat cop Doyle Wheeler head down to the mine shaft, Doyle, under the influence of the Shadowbeast, attacks Tyler. When this fails, The Toadman beheads Doyle, and then forces Tyler to free the Shadowbeast.
  • Whispered Faith: The Speaker differs from other incarnations of The Rake in the sense that he is not a mindless beast, but a cunning and malevolent mastermind. A Humanoid Abomination whose voice is capable of tempting and tormenting humans, The Speaker corrupts one of Lee's closest friends Sean, enslaving the boy by making him get addicted to his voice and resulting in him founding The Family, a cult created to worship him. Capturing Lee, The Speaker allows Sean to physically torture him for months while he could Mind Rape him with his voice to break his spirit. When Sean's right-hand Lexx usurps the position of Family leader in his absence, The Speaker disposes of both him and Lee's best friend Mo, trapping all of his deceased disciples in a Purgatory for him to feed upon for all of eternity.
  • Mr. Betty Krueger's Jeff The Killer audio dramas: Zalgo is an Eldritch Abomination who wants to be freed from his prison so he can turn Earth into a nightmarish world of eternal suffering. In House of Jeff The Killer, he revived Jeff, and ordered him to kill 3,000 people for him so that their bodies could be sacrificed to him. In Blood of Jeff The Killer, he is revealed to have corrupted children and turned them into killers for his army, and to have allowed Jeff to torment Jane in her nightmares. After being revived, he drains Dr. Englund's life force and raises an army of zombies to slaughter the world. During this, he taunts Jane and Toby about their pasts and the deaths of their family members. Even in a world filled with killers, rapists, and man-eating monsters, Zalgo manages to stand out.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#140306: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:27:28 PM

@Austin: By the way which proposals do you think need re-evaluation

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#140308: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:34:31 PM

[up][up]Well, I'll wait for the moderators to chime in their verdict on the whole "sockpuppet" issue, but I was considering that works like Grizzly Tales needed to be reevaluated in the events if the original proposer turned out to be a sockpuppet account. Though considering that I had watched the series as well, I will say that the one regarding the farmer had valid information. Still would personally lean towards cutting the farmer given how the moral standard of the series is children who misbehave either get killed, mutilated, or cooked into food and then fed to their unsuspecting parents, would skewer any chances of there being legitimate candidates to draw from aside from maybe Egor.

Edited by AustinDR on Dec 18th 2018 at 12:35:20 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#140309: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:35:44 PM

I would be so in favor of cutting that.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#140310: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:40:25 PM

Based on the info I'm still saying yes to the farmer. His case sounds PARTICULARLY nasty. Others that were turned into food were not done by an average human. And he kills their dog. It also dosent seem to be portrayed as karmic. Just from what i read.

Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 18th 2018 at 12:41:41 PM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#140311: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:41:36 PM

Oh please can we do this.

The fact the show treats this turned into food as punishment and eaten as a good thing means I really don't think farmer dude counts due to both the heinous standard and the extreme Values Dissonance here.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#140312: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:44:22 PM

Doesn't really help that Uncle Grizzly proceeds to laugh about the events afterwards. Makes you wonder if the story even was supposed to be seen as truly awful.

YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#140313: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:44:40 PM

I can understand in principle, but let's maybe wait until there actually is a decision announced? just bugs me

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
erazor0707 The Unknown Unknown from The Infinitude of Meh Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Unknown Unknown
#140314: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:51:42 PM

... That sounds like a really fucked up heinousness standard.

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#140315: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:52:49 PM

Well we approved him for some weird reason....

Edited by miraculous on Dec 18th 2018 at 12:54:50 PM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#140316: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:54:31 PM

I'm repeating my nay to the farmer and vouching he be cut. I'm fine with the wicked prince, but what is supposed to be distinguishing Farmer Cider Press here from the slew of other gruesome kid-murderers?

[up] It was an exact five vote margin there, last I checked.

Edited by Scraggle on Dec 18th 2018 at 1:55:16 PM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#140317: Dec 18th 2018 at 12:58:56 PM

I'm officially throwing in a cut if I didn't before.

MasterJoseph Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object from Not telling. Since: Mar, 2018
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
#140318: Dec 18th 2018 at 1:00:08 PM

Did the laughing occur in the book or just the show?

IPP Wick Check created.
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#140319: Dec 18th 2018 at 1:00:53 PM

This was already discussed back then.

Unless my memory Is failing it was becuase the others has more recourses and being spirits or magic beings had Blue-and-Orange Morality for there Horrific punishments. In contrast to the human farmer.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#140320: Dec 18th 2018 at 1:02:25 PM

Resources matter less when one of the highlights of the series is seeing kids get brutally or karmically killed. And that completely fails to regard the Values Dissonance, which as far as I'm concerned is the cherry on the pie.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#140321: Dec 18th 2018 at 1:03:13 PM

And the Blue-and-Orange Morality thing?

Things are really about to get Fun around here
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#140322: Dec 18th 2018 at 1:03:13 PM

So? He still commits essentially the same kind of crimes regardless of whether he was just a human. The other creatures that have done similar have higher body counts than the farmer.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#140323: Dec 18th 2018 at 1:04:42 PM

Yes but it would seem natural to them as they lack or have a weird understanding of ordinary morals.

The farmer would be human and know how horrific his actions were.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#140324: Dec 18th 2018 at 1:05:54 PM

[up][up][up] Again, doesn't quite matter as much when loads of villains are still, however you slice it, murdering children for every reason that can be thought up.

In short? The context of the actions start to matter less when the action in question is repeated this much and loses the emphasis it has in the setting.

Edited by Scraggle on Dec 18th 2018 at 2:06:57 AM

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#140325: Dec 18th 2018 at 1:06:34 PM

[up][up]Even then? Transforming kids to food in a karmic fashion is relatively commonplace in the series.

Edited by AustinDR on Dec 18th 2018 at 1:07:26 AM


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