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It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
Nightmare Fuel rules
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
Klavice
Since: Jan, 2011
#1252: Jun 16th 2019 at 5:33:45 PM
I'm talking like the Fridge Horror stuff. Like the example on Flight to the Finish for example is based on "Diamond Tiara's bullying is even more callous than usual, thus nightmare fuel". That deserves a cut if it hasn't already been cut.
Perhaps I was too harsh on it, but I do think the recent seasons deserve a look at by someone who's acquainted with them. Such as myself.
Redmess
#1253: Jun 16th 2019 at 5:38:39 PM
That example definitely should be cut, as does any other Fridge Horror.
Optimism is a duty.
Klavice
Since: Jan, 2011
#1254: Jun 16th 2019 at 5:49:35 PM
Oh yeah let's take a quick look at the Washouts episode for example.
- Lightning Dust hasn't gotten any better in her time on the figurative bus. While she's able to (mostly) hide her true nature from Scootaloo, she eventually pushes the filly into an untested rocket stunt on a contraption held together with duct tape. When Scoots tries to back out, Lightning still forces her to go through with it. Even for Lightning, that's a new low.
- Her expressions are borderline unnerving, especially when she shouts "Too late!" It looks less like she didn't care if the stunt would hurt Scootaloo and more so like she wanted it to, likely out of pure spite against Dash.
Lightning Dust is a sociopath, yes but that's due to a rushed ending in Wonderbolts Academy, forcing them to make her a villain. I don't see how this is nightmare fuel as this is more or less Fridge Horror. We don't know if Dust would have stepped in to save Scootaloo if Dash wasn't there. For all we know, she just has all Dash's arrogance and lack for safety with none of her redeeming qualities.
- Spitfire's rants about "ending up in a full body wing-and-hoof cast drinkin' through a straw" might be funny, but considering how unsettlingly mad she is about it, one can't help but wonder if she's actually speaking through experience.
This is definitely FH. Spitfire might have known someone but somehow I doubt it happened to her. And even if it did, this is not "What if" Nightmare Fuel.
Edited by Klavice on Jun 16th 2019 at 5:50:07 AM
WarJay77
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
(Troper Knight)
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
#1255: Jun 16th 2019 at 6:00:24 PM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, that's all speculation.
Redmess
#1256: Jun 16th 2019 at 6:06:45 PM
I agree, the former is irresponsible, sure, but not exactly nightmarish. The latter is clearly just speculation, I wouldn't even dignify it with FH. The "full body cast" thing is clearly just an overblown threat meant to keep people from doing dumb risky stuff. And said character is already established as having no indoor voice.
Optimism is a duty.
#1257: Jun 16th 2019 at 11:41:55 PM
It would do us a great service to pinpoint where all of this is coming from and, more importantly, why.
It's not much of a mystery, and Redmess basically hit on it already: some people seem to feel like they can't admit to liking a work unless they hype up how dark it is, even if that essentially means lying.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
#1258: Jun 17th 2019 at 9:02:49 AM
Re: NightmareFuel.Sonic Mania:
- The trash heaps in Flying Battery Zone, containing pieces of busted-up badniks. It's quite unnerving to see familiar enemies missing eyes, limbs, or even their entire face.
- The fact that the miniboss for the zone is a crusher. When this inevitably fails, Eggman attempts to drop Sonic out of the ship along with the trash.
The first point here is maybe OK, but the second one is severely lacking in context.
- The fact that the miniboss for the zone is a crusher. When this inevitably fails, Eggman attempts to drop Sonic out of the ship along with the trash.
- Hydrocity Zone Act 1's boss. You're chopping Eggman up with a propellor. Granted, he tried to do exactly that to Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles back in Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but still, thank God the game doesn't take itself too seriously.
This sounds like taking cartoon violence too seriously, possibly falling into Fridge Horror.
- Titanic Monarch Zone Act 1 has menacing background music and banners with Eggman's likeness on them that make you feel like you're running through Nazi Germany. Act 2 features stained-glass windows of his likeness along with echoing, foreboding music, and portals connecting to other locations within the Titanic Monarch littered everywhere.
Anyone old enough to make the connection to Nazi Germany is also mature enough to not get scared by it.
- The normal Final Boss can give players a shock on their blind run. After going through a long hallway, suddenly the background lights up in flashing warning signs and the opening seconds of the final boss music, "Ruby Illusions", which sounds like a klaxon blaring. What comes is a frantic fight where the player not only has to deal with Eggman, but has to survive against upgraded versions of the Hard-Boiled Heavies. It really gives off the impression that Eggman isn't messing around this time. Also, the final boss music also has laughs similar to the infamous boss fight music from the US soundtrack of Sonic CD.
I'm not sure about this one. I can imagine younger or more faint-hearted players finding this scary. I could go either way on this one.
- The reworked Metal Sonic fight in Plus changes the final phase of the fight to Metal Sonic using the Phantom Ruby to turn into his final boss form from Knuckles Chaotix. Already terrifying by itself, Metal Sonic's new death animation has him shatter to pieces.
- There's Nightmare Retardant if you look carefully at Metal Sonic Kai as he shatters, Metal Sonic's standard form can be seen falling from the core in a pose similar to Sonic's Death Throws, implying the form to have been an illusion as in Sonic Forces.
This one contains a Nightmare Retardant link. Either remove the second bullet point that's arguing against itself, or the whole thing.
- There's Nightmare Retardant if you look carefully at Metal Sonic Kai as he shatters, Metal Sonic's standard form can be seen falling from the core in a pose similar to Sonic's Death Throws, implying the form to have been an illusion as in Sonic Forces.
- The Stinger for the normal ending for Encore Mode brings back the tradition of the villain of the game, in this case Heavy King, juggling the emeralds that the player failed to get, with Heavy King looking down on the defeated-looking protagonists that finished the mode (pictured above). Oh yeah, it also plays the laugh from the bad ending of Sonic CD, just for punctuation.
This doesn't really make itself sound scary. If we delete this, we'll also have to get rid of the page's image.
WhiteCheddaPikachu
A Kitsune Balancing Act
from a place upstate where the cats bump into gates
Since: Nov, 2018
Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
A Kitsune Balancing Act
#1259: Jun 17th 2019 at 2:46:27 PM
Well, I suppose we could keep the first example, but one example isn't enough for a page so just move it to the YMMV page.
Why do people put Nightmare Retardant and Narm links on Nightmare Fuel pages? It is all opinion so it's not uncommon that a point would be described in both NF and Narm but there doesn't need to be links to them on either page.
Sturgeon's Law is too YMMV for page examples, so WHY is it not a YMMV trope!?
AlleyOop
Since: Oct, 2010
#1260: Jun 17th 2019 at 9:48:53 PM
Having a look at Banjo-Kazooie. A lot of extraneous ones but some of the entries for the first game actually seem pretty alright.
- All in all, there's actually a surprising amount of disturbing content in both games. And, as the characters themselves acknowledge, "this is a family game" - which might well be a shameless acknowledgement of what they managed to sneak past the censors.
Banjo Kazooie
- The Game Over screen, true to Rare tradition, where Gruntilda succeeds at stealing Tooty's beauty: the former becomes a shapely, sexy villainess, while Tooty turns into a green monster and starts lashing at the camera repeatedly: "Banjo, your sister wants a word with you...now!". What makes it worse that, as it happened in Donkey Kong 64, the sequence is also triggered when quitting the game. All of this is backed up by the BGM, a brief rearrangement of Grunty's theme played by a Banjo and a Kazoo.
- Speaking of Game Overs, the first time you die, Grunty mocks you for underestimating the difficulties of your quest, before transitioning out with a witch-shaped silhouette and her Evil Laugh.
- However the BOB is not activated after quitting the game in Tooie. Instead you just get a Game Over screen and hear Gruntildla laughing.
- Clanker's Cavern, Glitter Gulch Mine and Jolly Roger's Lagoon all share "Psycho" Strings as part of their BGM.
- Some of the monsters in the games include worms that pop out of broken grates, life-vests with teeth, pipes with teeth and killer venus-fly-traps.
- Mumbo Jumbo can come off as very creepy to many people. After all, a skull-faced deep-voiced performer of strange magic, who also sports a pair of staring Uncanny Valley-esque eyes, might not be the most common picture of a typical good guy. However, once you get to know Mumbo’s kind and helpful character, this can very quickly become a Nightmare Retardant.
- Mumbo's head isn't skull-shaped. Gruntilda cursed his face. And in Nuts & Bolts, Mumbo will juggle his eyes.
- In Mad Monster Mansion, the kitchen has a picture of Mumbo zombified. The developers leave this up to the player what happened to him if you got a Game Over.
- The termite mound in Mumbo's Mountain isn't as creepy as it first appears, but to those who are scared of insects, particularly insect nests, it does unnerve.
- Treasure Trove Cove. A beautiful tropical island/beach area. Just be sure to stay out of the water... A great white shark, called Snacker, will suddenly appear out of the blue, and Suspiciously Similar Song of the Jaws theme kicks in. Also, one of the Jinjos and a honeycomb piece are underwater, several platforming segments take place across the water, and there are two occasions in which you absolutely need to swim for your life across a stretch of the sea. While this example may not be the most threatening in writing, it's fair to say that this was, to many, one of the most tense parts of the game.
- The music fades away when you go up to the very top of the cove, leaving just the sound of the ocean and seagulls. It may not seem especially creepy to everyone, but the sudden silence can still be a bit unnerving, especially since it doesn't happen anywhere else in the game, and there's no explanation for it (most likely, it's because you're extremely high off the sea surface).
- Clanker's Cavern. You start looking around a horrible, oily, grimy, scrap-metal waste tank-like area, in stark contrast to the bright and cheery atmospheres of the last two levels, and finding the only way to go is through a narrow pipe in grimy yellow-brown water. You swim along the pipe, until you see what's on the other side. Razor sharp teeth. A giant, metal shark is looking right at you as soon as you arrive.
- Not only that, but you have to go inside that metal abomination. Luckily, the creature isn't malicious in any way—the sharp teeth he has is used exclusively on garbage—but all the bloody looking stuff meshed in with all that rusty steel stuff looks rather discomforting. And the music that plays sounds so melancholy it adds to the creep factor.
- And the Mutie-snippets. Well, the area in which they're found. Suddenly, you're attacked by an enemy which is a deformed version of a previous enemy. And there's a tank in the middle of the room in which a strange bright green light floods out of the holes...
- The entire level in general forces you to explore underwater, worried about your oxygen meter, through grimy tunnels which seem to go on forever, and one even stops at a grill, revealing the main area, and the surface what's air you would be able to relish if only you had more time... And enjoy the realistic drowning animation.
- Early in the level you're going to have to swim to the bottom of the place to free Clanker so he can ascend, as both getting inside him and using him as a stepping stool is critical to finding around half of the items hidden in the area. The lock keeping him down is very very very deep underwater, so deep that your air gauge isn't sufficient to go straight down from the surface and then get back up before you drown. Your only source of air down there is a friendly fish who provides oxygenated air bubbles, but the finicky swimming controls make them hard to grab. And all the while you're down there, the music adds "helpful" Psycho Strings. Like so.
- When you first face the snowmen in Freezeezy Peak, they don't look too bad from a distance, but when players get close, they will turn their way, with a really scary Slasher Smile on their face, evil eyes and they deliver a particularily nasty Evil Laugh before throwing snowballs at the player. And the only way to kill them is to master one of the most frustrating attacks in the game. They also are one of the few enemies that appear in more than one level.
- The pyramid maze in Gobi's Valley; there is a maze in a mummy king's tomb. Said mummy king is pissed off that you broke into his tomb, and forces you to complete the maze. The maze is very frantic and fast-paced, and you only get about 60 seconds to complete it, with frantic-sounding, panic-inducing music playing the whole time and tons of enemies trying to attack you. The camera also does sporadic rotations that make it even more difficult, not to mention the fact that the Witch Switch is located in a seriously hard-to-reach place that's about as far from the exit as possible. All in sixty seconds.
- While the maze itself isn't any more difficult than the one in Mad Monster Mansion, the consequence for losing is the player's controls are locked as the view goes first-person, looking straight up at the lowering spike ceiling...
- Mad Monster Mansion: although many claim it's supposed to be a "goofy, kiddie" ghost house, that still doesn't stop it from being very frightening with its giant ghost in the dining room, the nigh-invincible skeleton and ghost enemies, the creepy-voiced flower pots in the churchyard (the music itself getting incredibly creepy in said churchyard) and the creepy church with the disembodied ghost hand inside.
- The well, which is on a raised area overlooking a pool of deadly water, which unlike the hazardous terrain in the previous three levels, offers no explanation for what in the water is hurting you. Inside is, of course water, but in each direction is tentacles, foreboding you from collecting all of the notes safely.
- Remember those things that blast out of those grates? Well say hello to skeletal versions of them that burst out of pictures. You will not expect them the first time.
- Rusty Bucket Bay. Water so toxic that it drowns you on the surface - that's two Primal Fears in one. And it isn't optional. And Snacker's back.
- The Grimlets in Rusty Bucket Bay are especially terrifying. They're basically disguised as cowl vents with huge fangs that lunge at the duo when they get too near. They look like this◊ in the actual game, but their beta design was even worse.◊ One tell-tale sign that the cowl vent is actually a Grimlet in disguise is by their relatively light gray exterior texture and reddish-brown interior. Another warning sign is that they growl and show off their menacing look if Banjo gets close; they will make a biting sound if an egg is fired. These baddies are one of the few completely invincible enemies in the game - even the Wonderwing is ineffective against them and will make Banjo bounce back after touching these baddies.
- The Grimlets in Rusty Bucket Bay are especially terrifying. They're basically disguised as cowl vents with huge fangs that lunge at the duo when they get too near. They look like this
- The Zubbas' nest in Click Clock Wood. If you're afraid of bees, keep away in summer unless you really want that Jiggy. In the other seasons, it becomes Nightmare Retardant.
Banjo-Tooie
- The zombified throne room in Tooie. Cheerful ally King Jingaling becomes zombified and attacks you, while his pet becomes reduced to nothing but ashes and a pair of eyes. All with horrifically depressing music.
- Also, he keeps on saying very weird, random things that just sound spooky. As you progress through the game, you learn that the things he was saying were warnings about various important enemy characters you encounter in other worlds!
- In Tooie, Bottles's burnt corpse is lying in plain sight on Banjo's front lawn for the majority of the game. Bottles even lampshades it in ghost form.
- Scrapped co-op game mode Bottles' Revenge, in which Banjo's best friend Bottles turns into a devil and is bent on getting revenge on Banjo for killing him, even though the entire game was a quest to revive him, possessing his enemies so they could try to kill him.
- The amount of Moral Dissonance involved with some of the bosses, especially in Tooie, can very well be this: most of said bosses are simply defending their territories, and the player is effectively just breaking into what is essentially their houses and killing or assaulting them for shiny gold puzzle pieces. Lord Woo Fak Fak is the most jarring, as, basically, you're breaking into a blind old man's home trying to steal some shiny puzzle piece.
- In order to acquire said puzzle piece, you have to shoot Lord Fak's boils, which spill blood into the water. And that's only have the battle. The other half forces you to shoot his eyes and make him blind again.
- King Targitzan's Temple in Mayahem Temple is rather ominous, and a completely different type of play to all of the previous game. The dark corridors can make one nervous.
- There's an area in the depths of Glitter Gulch Mine which is almost pitch-black, apart from a few generators. Also, one wrong step and you can be sent into the abyss.
- There are also the areas with poisonous gas.
- Did you think the drowning animation was bad? Well, say hello to what happens to Banjo if you run out of air in a poison gas area. You're treated to the sight of him clutching at his throat, gasping for air, his gasps rising in pitch, signifying how desperate he is for air... before giving a final cough and collapsing. In other words, he chokes in a very realistic manner. (Kazooie, Mumbo and any transformations will only go through their regular death animations.)
- The music in the caverns can be pretty unnerving as well. Unlike the cheerful, upbeat prospector tune of the main world, the cavern theme is depressing, desolate, and full of psycho strings.
- The Flooded Caverns stand out as one of the creepiest areas in the game. Swimming through a maze of dark, similar-looking tunnels with very few places to breathe, and at the end is a starkly dark room with nothing in it except a Jiggy and a few enemies.
- Old King Coal: not only does he literally look like an animated pile of burning coal, as the battle progresses, you shoot off both of his arms, and then his torso before finally defeating him, thus resulting in a big pair of disembodied burning coal legs running around the room while still alive. And the worst part is that he, of all bosses in the game, not only gets nicer after the battle, he also is the one boss that plays any role after the level is done, so you will keep being reminded of his scariness whenever you use the train.
- There are also the areas with poisonous gas.
- Witchyworld is the typical Circus of Fear kind of level. In that respect, it's not particularly scary, in fact the Cave of Horrors is the least unnerving part of the level. However, the way Mr Patch inflates himself is rather scary to some, even if the dialogue is rather humorous.
- In that same level, Dive of Death. Once you reach the top, the music stops completely, almost like Treasure Trove Cove. Unlike Treasure Trove Cove, you're not safe; there's almost no room to walk, as you have to walk on a very thin board just to get a Jiggy, and if you fall off because of one wrong step, you must fall into the small pool, otherwise you will die instantly. Especially scary for those with a fear of heights.
- Jolly Roger's Lagoon had giant octopuses, huge puffer fish with equally big eyes, and electric eels thrown in for good measure.
- Those puffer fish just so happen to be exaggerated versions of the ones found in Donkey Kong 64. Starting out as much flatter, only to cause a jump scare by greatly and swiftly enlarging itself when touched and then exploding upon being defeated via grenade eggs.
- The seaweed tends to give a lot of Paranoia Fuel, and surprise some in the same way the Grimlets do, albeit less terrifying.
- Maggie Malpass is swallowed by a horrifying-looking big fish.
- There's also a small area beside the town where two piglet kids wish to swim. The problem is that their little pool is badly polluted. So badly polluted that it caused one of the piglets to grow a third arm.
- Jolly Roger's Lagoon is very, very claustrophobic feeling in some places and for a young player it can feel very easy to get lost underwater.
- The level's boss, Lord Woo Fak Fak (a giant anglerfish) can be this for people with aquaphobia, as can much of the level due to being underwater.
- Most of the stage takes place underwater. Fortunately, unlike Clanker's Cavern, Mumbo Jumbo can oxygenate the water, preventing you from drowning. Unfortunately, Rare seems to have used this as an excuse to make the underwater portion of the stage (i.e. most of it) extremely deep and just not fun for people who are afraid of deep water.
- In Terrydactyland, one Jiggy involves you going inside a mountain and awakening a dinosaur who then eats you and asks you to shoot down a bunch of germs.
- Eels show up at Terrydactyland as well: at the top of the waterfall, players are welcomed by big-toothed and big-eyed eels.
- Stomponadon is introduced with a slow, ominous panning of what are called the "Stomping Grounds" while the boss intro music plays. Then a huge T-Rex foot crashes down with a terrifying roar, out of nowhere.
- The Stomping Plains in general are arguably the scariest part of the whole Banjo-Kazooie series. First of all, there's no music. Nothing but the ambient whistling wind and the various roars of the different types of dinosaurs in the background. Now, if you're afraid of dinosaurs like this troper, then the ambient dinosaur sound-effects in the background of Terrydactyland's main theme was creepy enough already, but up until then, at least you had the goofy-sounding music to kill the fear. But the Stomping Plains are the one and only area of the world to remove that, taking away that one comforting solace. Now you can hear the roars clearly and vividly, which brings to mind what sort of terrifying creatures could be making such sounds. Secondly, the sky is a gross shade of dark green, which contrasts with the greyish-white overcast sky of the rest of the land, and in a way, almost makes it feel like you're still underground. Third, it's the only part of Terrydactyland to be located so far away from main area, giving a slight feeling of isolation. All those friendly, goofy characters from the main area are far away from you now. And finally, there's Stomponadon herself. She was described well above, but to go further into detail, you see several dinosaur footprints in the ground below, building up the reveal of Stomponadon...'s foot. Yeah, that's right. Stomponadon's foot is the only part of her you ever see. She's strongly implied to be too big for the rest of her body to fit, which would make her easily the largest character in the entire Banjo-Kazooie series, beating out even Clanker himself. The rest of Stomponadon's body, from the foot up, is left to the player's imagination, and given how terrifying Chompasaurus - a friendly dinosaur - looked, it's safe to assume that Stomponadon would also be the scariest-looking character in the series. That's another thing - aside from the enemies - pretty much every other dinosaur character in Terrydactyland turned out to be either benevolent despite their menacing appearances, like Chompa who ate Banjo but only so that you could help his stomach ache. Hell, even the boss, Terry was just an paranoid father who was worried sick over his missing eggs and only attacked Banjo out of falsely believing him a thief, calming down and befriending him after the battle. So even the worst dinosaur was good deep down. Stomponadon? Simply a mindless force of destruction that wants nothing more than to crush you to death. She can't even be excused by predatory instinct as she doesn't eat Banjo, instead just opting to squash the life out of him with her foot. It could almost seem like she's killing you for sport. And did we mention that she never talks? Every other giant dinosaur character, even a Bargasaurus at one point, speaks to you, but Stomponadon only roars.
- The Mordor-like area outside the factory in Grunty Industries, especially considering the inside of said factory wasn't a whole lot better to begin with.
- The area outside the level, in the Isle o' Hags, the Quagmire is just as bad. Also, this is the first time you'll encounter a Minjo in an area which is somewhat out of reach, in other words, it's well disguised.
- The fact that there is falling rain and a rail overpass running through the Quagmire added an extra layer of reality to the environment. It was like a reminder: "Places like this exist in Real Life".
- The trash compactor in Grunty Industries is deafening and deadly.
- The trope-naming original Hail Fire Peaks has Fire and Ice dragons who randomly roar and send down fire balls and ice at you throughout the level. The only thing that makes up for it is the easiness of their Boss Battle.
- You're in Cloud Cuckooland, a mishmash of giant random objects in the sky; nothing unnerving, but more whimsical. And look, your old pal Mumbo Jumbo has a home here! It's more colorful than any of his houses that you've seen in the game thus far. You go on in and see him, and he speaks in his usual broken English: "Mumbo has big surprise for you." Then he stands up. Then he ATTACKS YOU. Then he starts speaking in perfect English, in a mechanized voice.
- The cyborg imposter posing as Mumbo attacks the players in Cloud Cuckooland; during the battle, the fake, Mumbo-like body parts fall off, only to be replaced by metallic creepiness. Plus, when you defeat him, his head falls off, green motor oil leaks out, and the robot explodes.
- If you fly too low in Cloud Cuckooland, you will plummet instantly. There's no way to tell if you're getting too low.
- If you're afraid of heights Cloud Cuckooland absolutely won't be your cup of tea.
- Gruntilda's Lair itself: aside from its Grunty-shaped entrance, the inside is dark, wall motifs are often intricate and weird, the music can be creepy at times, it contains spiderwebs, quite weird enemies and narcissistic pictures of Gruntilda, and before everything else, the entrances to the level areas have teeth and big glowing red eyes.
- Though the worst area of the lair has to be the top of the tower towards the end of the game, the music is really ominous compared to every other parts of the lair, and it kicks the eerie mood Up To Eleven, even the deactivated Beauty transfer machine room feels dead and creepy, you also hear the Evil Laugh in the music track much more often than you do throughout any other part of the Lair due to either the track being short or Grant Kirkhope trying to set the mood a little too well, though one of the worst parts has to be the the puzzle of Gruntilda that you have to fill to enter the room with Dingpot, out of all of the narcissistic pictures of Gruntilda, the final boss picture you fill up with tons of jiggys has to be the worst one as it actually makes her look like a sinister threatening looking character, despite how humorous a villain she's been throughout the game.
- Later areas of the game feature Beehives that have active swarms of bees around them. Imagine being low on health and having no conceivable way of dealing with the swarms. To add insult to injury, you're deathly afraid of bees/hornets/wasps, maybe because you're allergic to their stings. You dash up to the beehive, quickly destroy it, and get murdered by the bees. Banjo Tooie replaced the swarms with demonic beehives which will follow you to hell and back to attack you. Thankfully, unlike the bees, they are far easier to kill.
- Minjos are evil Jinjos (little creatures you are trying to save) that are incredibly hard to kill once they attack you. There is absolutely no way to tell the difference between a Minjo and a Jinjo (unless you are able to fire a Grenade or Ice Egg at it) until you go over to it, and then, if it is a Minjo, it will charge at you and start growling creepily, while trying to electrocute you.
- Fortunately, Minjos are usually in easy to reach places- aside from one single one who is at the end of a catwalk in Grunty Industries. That one can really spook you.
- Picture this. You're a 8 or 9 year old (or younger) who has never played this game (Banjo Tooie) before. You see a patch of quicksand and forget to read the sign. You try and walk across it, expecting maybe to sink and having to move fast. Instead... you are promptly eaten by some sort of weird green alien thing that laughs at you in a creepy voice. Meet the Dragunda, a rather common enemy that will eat you and take away a honeycomb should you enter their territory. Worst of all? There's no way to defeat them!
- To add to the creepy factor, they'll sometimes randomly pop above the surface before immediately diving back down. Imagine standing by a swamp or patch of quicksand, planning the best way to cross, and seeing some green thing briefly surface. Shooting eggs does nothing to it and it will disappear not long after. There's no way of knowing if it can come out of the hazardous patch and come after you or not.
- Remember those green slug-like things that popped out of grates in Banjo Kazooie? They got a spiritual successor in Banjo Tooie in the form of Snapdragons. You inch across a ledge up to this bizarre yellow hive and suddenly, a dragon-like thing pops out and tries to eat you. A huge Jump Scare for players who are new to the game, not to mention there are some that wait until you get really close and then pounce. Once you get grenade eggs, the fear is somewhat reduced, but it's still pretty frightening to see a monstrosity that looks like a dragon plant coming out of a hive with no way of knowing if it'll come out right away or wait till you're just over it. The easiest way to deal with them when they are the latter is to either use a Grenade Egg or fake them out, but you run the risk of getting knocked off into the abyss below if you do.
- Cheato's theme song is pretty creepy, which is ironic since Cheato is a particularly benevolant character.
- Cheato's "voice" is also quite unnerving. Compare Banjo's light-hearted, silly-sounding "guh-guh-guh" to Cheato's strange, deep, otherworldly "uh-uh-uh".
- Basically what happened to Gruntilda. After being thrown off her tower in Banjo-Kazooie, she falls and falls and falls...and then a rock squishes her. Klungo comes and attempts to pick up the rock squishing her. Cut to the sequel, where he's still picking up that rock 2 years later. Once it is picked up by her sisters, Grunty doesn't have any skin. Forget what she ate, she just wasted away down there for 2 years. No organs, heart, just a living skeleton. Her death isn't that great either—after being brought down to 0 hp, Gruntilda drops her highly explosive spell which blows up the tank. All that's left of her is her head. Still sentient, and in the ending her head is kicked around by the gang. While she complains that she'll be back in Banjo-Threeie.
- Playing the first game on some emulators will cause the opening scene to be shown with all of the characters having blank white eyes.
- An enemy from the first game is a large piranha-like fish called Chump. Its large teeth and underbite can spook certain players, but what hammers in its scare factor is its tendency to swim around leisurely before suddenly attacking whoever gets too close. The biting noise it makes only makes it worse.
- Not sure if this counts, as it's more of a meta example, but this YouTube comment will make you see Glitter Gulch Mine in a whole different light... "The first area of the mines is cheerful and upbeat, and it seems that the miners, whoever they were, have settled in well with mine cart tracks and harvesting equipment. Then you go lower into the mine, the music has a somewhat sad and lonely feeling to it, and it seems the miners only worked in the area for a short time before leaving. You then go into the lowest depths of the mine where it becomes incredibly dark, it almost feels unnaturally so... The music is much darker, with an unnervingly sinister feeling to it, and it the seems the miners were only there for a very short period of time, and immediately left, almost as if they were in a panicked hurry. I think the miners discovered something...something absolutely horrible in the darkness below. Realising the power this dark creature had, they immediately left, and sealed off the mines in hopes to contain whatever the monstrosity was. I still feel very uneasy about going down there, perhaps whatever creature they found is still lurking in it's perpetual darkness, waiting...watching you..."
- Frighteningly, one of the aggressive employees in Witchyworld has somehow entered Mumbo's Skull, something no antagonist from any other world has been able to do. (With the exception of the Minjo of Cloud Cuckoo Land)
Edited by AlleyOop on Jun 17th 2019 at 12:56:17 PM
AlleyOop
Since: Oct, 2010
#1261: Jun 17th 2019 at 10:29:00 PM
Also having a look at Donkey Kong 64.
DK 64
- Mad Jack: a giant Jack-in-the-Box resembling a demented cyborg crocodile with Donald Duck's voice and part of its paint job chipped off, revealing a glowing red eye. If it isn't all that scary, it ought to be. What'll really get to you is his introduction: he drops out of the reject chute (in a factory already creating evil toys, no less) pops out, does the standard boo scare, then laughs snidely at you. Not only, this Wake-Up Call Boss has everything: a dark room, small platforms raised to great heights, a Monster Clown Creepy Doll, and Evil Laughter in the accompanying music. In other words, every single childhood phobia in the book in one single boss.
- The DA Nintober event put Mad Jack on their list, and part of his description was: "King K. Rool's Frantic Factory puts out dangerous toys unsuitable for all ages. When health and safety is of no concern, it takes a very special toy to end up in the reject chute."
- An early design◊ for Mad Jack, called Junk-in-the-Box, depicted him as a humanoid Monster Clown with a bear trap for a mouth. While this version is a bit more subdued than the final product, there's no denying the fact that no amount of springs can save it from the depths of the Uncanny Valley.
- K. Rool himself from DK64. The ominous music is a bonus, but the voice acting in the intro is a bit of Nightmare Retardant given its similarities to Dr. Claw.
- Dogadon in Fungi Forest: after dealing a certain amount of damage to him, he starts making the platform sink, as the music gets faster and faster as the platform gets lower.
- It's entirely possible for the platform to fully sink into the lava. If you take too long with the fight, it will end with him laughing and flying away, as Chunky is left to burn.
- The wind-up Kremlings from Frantic Factory are Nightmare Fuel incarnate. Everything about them is unsettling: glowing red eyes, circular walking pattern when not seeing you, squeaky noises when seeing you.
- Creepy Castle has rotting hands as platforms. Inside the actual castle, there's a torture chamber after a dark maze and a very realistic skull-shaped portal leading to a red maze made completely out of bones.
- Creepy Castle had an unseen individual moaning constantly.
- Angry Aztec has an eerie temple with ominous music that just makes you feel uncomfortable, and once you grab the banana at the end, a voice suddenly shouts "GET OUT!" and aims at you with some sort of gun. You then have 25 seconds to get out of there before being shot down. Said "GET OUT!" comes from an assassin who tries to kill you once you get the bananas. In certain Crystal Caves challenges and in the greenhouse in Creepy Castle, he returns if you fail a challenge and gives you only 10 seconds to escape this time.
- One Chunky Kong challenge in Crystal Caves has you avoiding lights. Hit a light, and you get killed instantly after one second!
- The Crystal Caves seem like a relatively calm place at first, it's very ambient and you're just walking around gazing at the serenity of the area until a scary noise accompanies stalactites falling everywhere.
- Good news: it's possible for Tiny Kong to locate the source of the falling stalactites. The bad news: it's a gigantic Kosha, which is about ten times her size! He still goes down normally, but YEESH!
- The fact that the entire Hideout Helm level was timed, considering that if time runs out, it's an automatic game over and all of DK Isles gets destroyed.
- There's also the intro to the level, which implies that K.Rool doesn't even care if the unfinished Blast-O-Matic blows himself and his minions up along with DK Island, with him literally mashing the Fire button like a maniac despite his minions' desperate warnings.
- The Evil Laughter that occurs throughout the game (mostly when you use a barrel or animal ability where it isn't allowed) is heard within every 10 minute interval in the level. By the time you reach the last 10 minutes, the laughing becomes even more frequent and starts occurring every minute. When you reach the last 10 seconds, the game counts down directly on the screen...
- The Game Over screen (thankfully skippable, though) has the evil laughter K. Rool showing the Blast-O-Matic about to blow DK Isles up, which was pretty intense for some back when they were children, joining the ranks of Banjo-Kazooie in the "save and quit is not an option" territory.
- The Golden Banana where you have to swim into the giant mechanical fish in Gloomy Galleon. Not helped by the fact that a late-game glitch renders the banana almost impossible to obtain after getting the Sniper Scope if you don't know how to circumvent it.
- Anytime you asked Wrinkly - Cranky's dead wife - for hints, she would always enter with her wailing.
- Wrinkly herself stated that she died sometime between Donkey Kong Country 3 and DK64.
- The constant crying of the Banana Fairy is unnerving as well.
- The Evil Laughter that occurs throughout the game is nerve-wracking, especially when you least expect it, like when using a barrel ability or an animal pal ability where it's not allowed.
- The Green Klaptraps in Angry Aztec wear snapping dentures with tongues in them that give chase after you should you kill one.
- If you didn't know any better, you'd think that you knocked their teeth and tongue out directly, with these chasing you for one last attempt at revenge from beyond the grave!
- Fungi Forest at night is pretty scary to those unfamiliar with the level layout. Actually, it's pretty scary even when you do know the layout. You hear wolves howling in the background, followed by owls sounding off and a very ominous reprise of the level's daytime music. The atmosphere is just incredibly spooky.
- While we're on the subject of Fungi Forest, the Killer Tomatoes probably deserve a special mention. These oversized, scary-faced creatures with fangs the size of shivs pop out of the ground and attack any random passer-by unlucky enough to cross their path. Fortunately, you can destroy these things using Chunky for a Golden Banana, but they are still menacing adversaries.
- Creepy Castle's mine cart section. It's bad enough with the loud chase music and random sirens going off constantly, but how about the tombstones that fly out the ground (with accompanying insane laughter) as you approach or the giant skeleton demon thing shooting explosive fireballs at poor DK?
- The tunnels in Jungle Japes and Gloomy Galleon have whispers echo throughout.
- The secret cavern reached in Jungle Japes by pounding a large X as Chunky has a narrow path above a Bottomless Pit lined with massive torches and a giant skull at the end. The music certainly doesn't help matters.
- Said creepy music is reused in a beehive within the same level, and the ghost ship in Gloomy Galleon.
- As Donkey Kong, you have to complete a few Barrel Cannon challenges that are set in the sky, while a windy and lonely rendition of the aforementioned cave music plays. These challenges tend to invoke feelings of acrophobia.
- Zingers are back, and you can shoot them down. Not scary? Well then, try aiming at one at first-person close enough for it to bear down on you. The only thing scarier than regular Zingers are the mechanical Zingers in Frantic Factory. Oh jeez...
- And later they start dropping grenades at you, making the task of getting past them from below incredibly unnerving as you hear that falling sound followed by a loud explosion that might get you by surprise.
- The game gives you Super Not-Drowning Skills, as per Donkey Kong Country tradition. However, Rareware seems to have used this as an excuse to make some very deep hydrophobe-unfriendly water areas, such as those in Gloomy Galleon.
- The sunken ship rooms are probably the worst thanks to the bad lighting, killer starfish and exploding (and creepy looking) pufferfish (both of those enemies can't be fought due to the Kongs lacking underwater combat moves). Some of those rooms actually feature jail cells and skeletons of prisoners chained to walls, because it can always get worse.
- Hell, the skeletons themselves are pretty nasty if you think about them. It seems implied that these prisoners drowned when the ship went down because they couldn't escape their chains. And this is supposed to be a kid's game!
- They may have already been startling in their appearance in Donkey Kong Country 2, but the pufferfish, known as Puftup, look far more menacing here. A couple of bonus stages in the sunken ship rooms actually drop you off in areas where one of them can greet you with an explosion after slightly inflating which notably affects its face. They also become moving obstacles in two bosses, Puftoss and King Kut Out. While they're not found as often, their expies in Banjo-Tooie only take the creepiness factor even further.
- Beyond all of that, there is something genuinely unsettling about the level from the get go. The tense music and sheer enormity of the stage gives one a sense of claustrophobia and keeps players constantly on edge.
- The intro to Diddy’s boss fight. He squishes a random dragonfly and smiles in satisfaction. Then a low buzzing starts behind. Diddy slowly turns...and the bug’s bigger badder brother roars.
- The intro to Creepy Castle. K. Rool blatantly declares he’s going to kill a fleeing minion for his failure to protect the blueprints to his Blast-O-Matic machine. While the king taunts his hapless victim, some unknown beast is stomping close by, loudly enough to shake the whole screen. Just when the Kasplat can breathe a sigh of relief, the camera pans to reveal a snapping Klaptrap...only it’s bigger than Dogadon and it’s looking right at him.
- Due to the game's impressive lighting effects for an N64 game, quite a few areas are pitch black, only lit by swinging lamps, colored lights, and torches, making just exploring extremely unnerving.
Edited by AlleyOop on Jun 17th 2019 at 1:32:10 PM
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
#1262: Jun 18th 2019 at 7:22:49 AM
and : I mostly agree with all of these, except maybe the Game Over scene from Banjo-Kazooie since you say it was disturbing to some players.
AlleyOop
Since: Oct, 2010
#1263: Jun 18th 2019 at 11:24:50 AM
Fair enough. The responses I've seen that went into detail about why they disliked it were closer to the lines of finding it a Downer Ending, but there probably were people horrified by what happened to Tootie.
lalalei2001
Since: Oct, 2009
#1264: Jun 18th 2019 at 1:21:59 PM
Amphibia just got a NF page.
The Protomen enhanced my life.
Klavice
Since: Jan, 2011
#1265: Jun 18th 2019 at 3:18:15 PM
When I wrote some of those examples on Banjo I wrote them from the eyes of an easily startled 6 year old. I'd say the page can be cut and whatever's salvagable can be moved to the main video game page.
There's also Zelda which is very similar. I still get the chills from the Wallmasters, but I'm easily scared and OOT's "scary" moments aside from those and the ReDeads are sad not Nightmare Fuel.
So I'd say we keep the Wallmasters and cut everything else on the OOT page. But again even those are jump scares and Hell Is That Noise for the creepy descending sound. Do give it a look though in case there's something besides Ganon that can be kept.
Edited by Klavice on Jun 18th 2019 at 3:18:54 AM
lalalei2001
Since: Oct, 2009
#1266: Jun 18th 2019 at 3:51:55 PM
The Shadow Temple put me off finishing the game for years. << >>
Brainulator9
Short-Term Projects herald
from US
Since: Aug, 2018
Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#1267: Jun 18th 2019 at 4:10:30 PM
NightmareFuel.Sonic Mania isn't fully unsalvagable, but needs help. I think I agree with Zuxtron.
Oh, and Nightmare Fuel containing Fridge Horror born of Epileptic Trees? Oh, please. I'm frustrated with Fridge Brilliance (though Fridge Horror has the same problem, to an extent) being used for Wild Mass Guessing with respect to story elements.
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
AlleyOop
Since: Oct, 2010
#1268: Jun 18th 2019 at 6:00:46 PM
Alright, I've made the changes to Captain America: The First Avenger, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Banjo-Kazooie, and Donkey Kong 64. I submitted Captain America: Civil War to the cutlist as all of the entries I listed as possibly keeping are still loosely debatable. Since the entry about Zola was zapped in the process I will ask the Caption thread to change the new image to the screenshot of the Winter Soldier's bloody arm being sawed off.
@Klavice I decided to err on the conservative side since I do know that a lot of adult player still find those moments disturbing and shocking given that the game is supposed to be aimed at general audiences.
costanton11
Since: Mar, 2016
#1269: Jun 18th 2019 at 8:05:49 PM
The page for Thor The Dark World is fairly short. Are there enough examples to justify having a separate page?
AlleyOop
Since: Oct, 2010
#1270: Jun 18th 2019 at 8:08:09 PM
Having watched that film, none of the entries are even scary. If they were, maybe I'd have liked it better. Looking over the pages for Thor and Thor Ragnarok I'd consider deleting all three of them. The only thing I'd remotely consider keeping is the skeleton army in Ragnarok, and even then not really.
Edited by AlleyOop on Jun 18th 2019 at 11:13:37 AM
#1271: Jun 18th 2019 at 11:50:43 PM
I'm starting to think that the Thor series' and Civil War's pages were only made to fill a quota for every MCU film having an NF page. Just like my theory on the bad Disney NF pages
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AlleyOop
Since: Oct, 2010
#1272: Jun 19th 2019 at 12:00:30 AM
Probably worth going through all of the MCU pages to clear them out. I've seen all of the movies so I can help.
Looking at the Iron Man pages, the only one remotely worth keeping is the carbon shadows one from 3, since the implications are immediate and pretty viscerally horrifying for anyone who knows about that.
Everything in Ant-Man (the film folder) and Ant Man And The Wasp can go sans the link to the discarded concept art for Zola, where yeah, some of it is pretty creepy.
For Guardians of the Galaxy, the Sakaarans' faces and what happens when you get vaporized by the Orb are grotesque, although I don't know if it's this trope. The cavern scene in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 is gruesome but everything else can be removed.
Doctor Strange (2016) is the kind of film that you'd think would be good cause for this, but it's quite tame aside from the one scene of Strange's hallucination. All of Spider Man Homecoming can be cut. Killmonger's scarification in Black Panther (2018) makes a lot of people uncomfortable for trypophobia reasons but probably not this. Consider that entry, but otherwise cut. Goose's true form in Captain Marvel 2019 is grotesque but the scene is entirely played for laughs. Cut.
The Avengers (2012) can be entirely cut. Avengers: Age of Ultron has a moderately creepy scene with the first Ultron body and the "No Strings on Me" rendition in the trailer, but I wouldn't consider them NF. The rest can be deleted without question. The only entry on Avengers: Endgame worth discussing might be Scott's Adult Fear, although it's portrayed as more tense than scary. Not even going to look at the folder labeled "Meta" in Avengers: Infinity War as that says it all. Looking at the film folder, the entry about Dr. Strange and the needles might be worth saving and that's it. Although as with pretty much every entry for NF it suffers from that common problem of its editor exaggerating the horror to almost fetishistic levels.
And that might be something worth pointing out on the main page. Even entries most would consider valid seem to be written with a level of detail that comes off as masturbatory. Less Nightmare Fuel and more Nightmare Fetishist. We don't want to be as dry as Wikipedia, but many of the examples take it too far with the language and sound Narmful in their attempts to make themselves sound scary.
Edited by AlleyOop on Jun 19th 2019 at 3:32:41 PM
Shadao
Since: Jan, 2013
#1273: Jun 19th 2019 at 2:51:43 AM
I say keep Tony Stark's imprisonment, water torture and chest wound examples for the Iron Man Nightmare Fuel. I just saw the movie again on a plane, and it's quite scary to see pre-Iron Man Tony Stark having shards ready to pierce its heart, and being forced to work for the terrorists with no hope of outside rescue. And said-terrorists are willingly to force-feed Yinsen with hot lead. And I don't recall Tony making any quips during this time.
#1274: Jun 19th 2019 at 3:24:04 AM
For the first Guardians of the Galaxy's NF page, I thought Nebula regenerating with those bone cracking noises was disturbing.
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Pichu-kun
...
Since: Jan, 2001
...
#1275: Jun 19th 2019 at 7:42:26 AM
From NightmareFuel.Pokemon Live. I don't know if anything in the play is genuinely scary:
- MechaMew2 is seemingly unaffected by any attack, no matter how strong.
- Giovanni's song "It Will All Be Mine," featuring a performance by Darren Dunstan—who would later VA Pegasus in Yu-Gi-Oh!—and marching Rocket Grunts.
- The MechaMew2 robot looked◊ awesome and terrifying.
- Giovanni's threat to Professor Oak when he asks to hurry up and show him Team Rocket's achievement.
Giovanni: Always in such a rush, Professor. You really should learn to relax. You'll live longer.
- Giovanni's songs often have creepy instrumentation, and can function as Jump Scares on the soundtrack.
- Giovanni's Dark Reprise of "You and Me and Pokemon" starts out with a scare chord and details how once he defeats Pikachu the world will fall before his might. The song was even used in a Death Note AMV.
One more/Won't be much longer til my/plan is complete! One fight/Then after that/You'll all be at my feet!
- According to Professor Oak, the Rockets carried him and Delia away by dangling them in cages from a helicopter. Imagine that and try not to get vertigo.
- Giovanni decides to kill Ash and Pikachu with Hyper Beam after they served their purpose in his plan. If not for Mewtwo's intervention, he would have won.
- MechaMew2, upon becoming sentient, puts Giovanni in a headlock and prepares to blow up, with a timer ticking down. Even though MechaMew2 is good by then, it's still pretty unsettling.
- Mewtwo wipes Ash's memories of his appearance for no apparent reason. Given that this happens after he hits MechaMew2 with enough of Ash's memories to make him faint, it may have been accidental.
Total posts: 5,760
We could bring it up in the MLP thread.
Optimism is a duty.