Ensemble Tropes Cleanup

Ensemble Tropes are a consistent magnet for misuse and shoehorns. Common issues include:

• Too many characters being added to the ensemble, sometimes under the same role
• Roles being shoehorned to allow characters to fit the trope
• Extra tropes being added to the ensemble, again to force characters to fit
• ZCEs: That is, tropes that don't explain how or why the characters fit the role

This cleanup is a spin-off, or a "Super Cleanup", if you will, to the Five Man Band cleanup. Take any Five-Man Band examples to that other thread. This one will deal with every other ensemble trope.

I'm going to dust of this thread, thanks to ~Amathieu 13 for showing me this thread from this ATT.

Essentially, the Four-Temperament Ensemble is being shoehored with Countries and Citiesassociated with a temperament, alongside anything else that I didn't even deep dived into, . Heck, the "Cities in the Philippines" section are just cities in Manila. I'm from the rural part of the country, and this screams "Imperial Manila" to me. Seems unnecessary to me, sorry.

Edited by alnair20aug93 on Jul 27th 2023 at 10:44:55 PM

Uh, yeah I think anything that isn't about a character could go (unless we make some sort of JFF spin-off).

Most likely.

Bump. What should we do with Four-Temperament Ensemble for the most part?

For the most part?

What to do with the description on the Four-Temperament Ensemble?

We have the What Apocalypse Horseman, Pilot, and City in Manila perfectly describes your temperament in the description. I mean, look at this:

IDK, tbh. I'm more concerned over finding bad examples — that description issue seems too complex.

My current standing is to delete these shoehorns, and I'm just waiting on feedback from other tropers. Currently, it's just you and me discussing this. And the Trope Description Improvement Drive is so complicated, like it brushes off some queries.

Okay, so I have asked that on the Trope Description drive.

Bump.

Okay, so shall we sandbox the folders and figure out how they should be worded to convey what the the Humours actually were, and then decide what part should stay with the trope and what part should be moved the Analysis?

That conversation has already started at the other thread, which is the better spot for this conversation.

I'm confused about what's being discussed where at this point.

This thread is just meant to be an example cleanup, we can't really tackle the description stuff here, and the description stuff has already been taken to and is under discussion at the Trope Description Improvement Drive.

That's fair enough. It's just that the last thing anyone said in response to me suggesting we we do a temp project thread for it was to come back to this thread. Hence my confusion.

I would assume since the Trope Description thread has a questionable pace with one topic being pushed aside with another, I had brought this topic to here.

I mean, just because a thread doesn't progress at a good pace, that doesn't mean we can just push the issue here. The trope's bloated and awful description is not the issue at hand and we have to go through the correct channel for this stuff. Since the conversation was being responded to I don't see a point in moving it here; people were pretty much in agreement to just cut a majority of it.

The problem was that almost everything in those folders wasn't based in reality, which is why a discussion began about rewriting the folders based on what the four humours actually are instead of what people "fanon" them as being. The discussion wasn't about rewriting the trope description, it was about what the four humours are in real life to determine what needs to be cut, what needs to stay on the trope page and what needs to be moved to the analysis page. The four folders aren't the trope description, they're the real life description of the four humours that the trope description is based on.

If it needs TRS to decide what real life information needs to be in the folders and what parts of it go on the trope page or analysis page, fine. Let's do that. I was already pointing out it needed to be sandboxed anyway.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 5th 2023 at 11:30:50 AM

Not really? I read it, everyone pretty much just said "yeah cut everything but the blood types". I'm not sure what discussion you're referring to. I've never said it needs TRS so I'm really not sure what you're on about.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 5th 2023 at 6:40:45 AM

The part of the discussion where the contents of the folders themselves are full of nonsense? There were two conversations going on.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Aug 5th 2023 at 11:53:10 AM

And people said to just cut the info in the those folders... Which is possible because this information has nothing to do with how the trope is defined, it's just noise and bloat. People said it was nonsense and others agreed; my point is that this is not a complicated fix so I don't see why people suddenly suggested moving to a project thread.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 5th 2023 at 6:54:12 AM

Right... because it was wrong, not because there doesn't need to be an explanation of what the four humours actually are. I thought the point was to cut the nonsense and replace it with what the humours actually are. Or did I misinterpret that, and people just wanted it cut and replaced with nothing?

As far as I know it was just a straight up "cut the nonsense".

Anyway, can we please go back to the proper thread? People aren't reading these posts and this is still not the correct discussion venue.

Fair enough.