I do object it. There is bigger difference between 1 and 2 than there is between 1 and 3. Yet we managed to have unified page for 1 and 2 despite their monumental differences and covering the ground for both. There really is no real reason for a split.
Well, I'd personally split all three into separate games in that case. The mechanics are thoroughly different in each case (particularly the political systems).
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
And then all three of them will repeat 90% of their trope list, if not more, because that's how similar they still remain to each other. Vicky 2 main schtick was a lot of automation and Vicky 3 main schtick is diplomatic play mechanics. That's it. Everything else just overlaps heavily.
There is HoI and EU that play significantly different with each game (well, except maybe EU 1 and 2, since that's just the same game with slightly longer time period to cover) and they are on a single page each, just due to the general overlap. Compared to those, Vicky is just same game, different display each time.
If you REALLY want to split them, I'm not going to stop you. Just pointing out how pointless it seems to be. The only PDX game with actually different content and gameplay is the CK series (since that's just an RPG with few extra steps), and that got them 3 separate pages.
I would propose that, rather than immediately splitting into three different pages, how about we create different folders on the same page instead? This used to be the case for the Crusader Kings series before it got split onto separate pages. That way we could have one "Common" folder for tropes that all (or at least 2) of the games share, and three additional folders, one for each game, for tropes that are unique to that game. I think it's a good middle ground to creating entirely new pages, and it can also serve as a "trial run" to see just how many unique tropes the games end up getting, and whether it would actually be worth giving them each their own page.
... again, for what purpose? You are going to get 90% of entries into "Common" and handful into game-specific folders.
Edited by Tropiarz
I'm not so sure that the game-specific folders would really be that barren. The setting of the games are all the same, but the game mechanics, graphical style and overall focus does vary a fair bit imo. I think it does disservice to the unique aspects of the games if we keep grouping them all up. I can agree that creating three separate pages might be too big of a step at this time, but I don't see any harm in creating specific folders other than the initial work of setting it up. Worst case scenario is that the Common folder ends up way larger than the game-specific ones, but I don't think that's such a terrible thing.
I'll give you a clue: you can read the pre-existing list and decide how much things overlap from that, without setting up anything at all.
And here is another: the list is too short to truly justify folders, especially four of them.
It's not rocket science, really.
Edited by Tropiarz
I don't really see the problem with having multiple folders even if there are a lot of overlapping tropes right now. It might even inspire people to submit more game-specific tropes. But fine, I guess I can start off submitting more game-specific tropes without dividing into folders until you deem it worth it.
I see the problem with redundant division that makes text harder to eye-ball and search the right entry by navigating superfluous folders. Here, did the heavy lifting for you:
- Adam Smith Hates Your Guts: Overlap
- A.I.-Generated Economy: Overlap
- The Alliance: Overlap
- Alternate History: Overlap
- Anachronism Stew: Overlap
- Anti-Frustration Features: 3, but 2 can be included with variety of features in it (artisans, migration, self-promotion and demotion etc)
- Apathetic Citizens: Overlap
- Appeal to Force: Overlap
- Appeal to Tradition: 1 & 2, but 3 can also qualify with land owners instead of reactionaries
- Artificial Brilliance: Overlap
- Artificial Stupidity: MASSIVE overlap
- Artistic License – Economics: Overlap
- Artistic License – Engineering: Overlap, 3 unfortunately continues the tradition, as population modifier to infrastructure is just borked
- Artistic License – Geography: Overlap
- Artistic License – History: Overlap
- Artistic License – Religion: Overlap
- The Assimilator: Overlap
- Attack! Attack! Attack!: Overlap
- Autosave: Overlap
- Back from the Dead: Overlap
- Bad Guys Do the Dirty Work: Overlap
- Balkanise Me: Overlap
- Boisterous Weakling: Overlap
- Brick Joke: Overlap
- Character Portrait: Overlap
- Chronic Backstabbing Disorder: Overlap
- Chummy Commies: Overlap
- Colour Coded Armies: Overlap
- Colour-Coded for Your Convenience: Overlap
- Command & Conquer Economy: Overlap
- The Computer Is a Cheating Bastard: Overlap
- Cool Boat: Overlap
- Creator Provincialism: Overlap
- Darkest Africa: Overlap
- Deliberate Values Dissonance: Overlap
- Department of Redundancy Department: 2 & 3
- Dirty Communists: Overlap
- Divided States of America: Overlap
- Eagle Land: Overlap
- Early-Installment Weirdness: 1, duh
- Easy Logistics: Overlap
- Easter Egg: 2
- Elite Mooks: Overlap
- The Empire: Overlap
- Event Flag: Overlap
- Evil Is Easy: Overlap
- Evil Is Petty: 3
- Evil Pays Better: Overlap
- Failure Gambit: Overlap
- Fake Difficulty: Overlap
- The Federation: Overlap
- Fictional Flag: Overlap
- Flaw Exploitation: 2, also applies to 3
- Fog of War: Overlap
- Gambit Roulette: 3
- Game Mod: Overlap
- Global Currency: Overlap
- Glorious Mother Russia: Overlap
- Good Pays Better: Overlap
- Great Offscreen War: Overlap
- Harder Than Hard: Overlap
- Hegemonic Empire: Overlap
- High-Class Glass: Overlap
- Hopeless War: Overlap
- An Immigrant's Tale: Overlap
- Insistent Terminology: 2 & 3
- Job-Stealing Robot: Overlap, despite only listing 3
- Joke Character: 2 & 3
- Land of One City: Overlap
- Magikarp Power: Overlap
- Must Have Caffeine/Must Have Nicotine: Overlap
- Nice Job Breaking It, Hero: 2, applies to 3, too
- Nintendo Hard: Overlap
- No Blood for Phlebotinum: Overlap
- Non-Entity General: Overlap
- No Swastikas: Overlap
- Notice This: 2
- Not-So-Harmless Villain: Overlap
- Obstructive Bureaucrat: 2 & 3, can be applied to administrative spending slider in 1, too
- Obvious Beta: Overlap
- Off the Chart: Overlap
- Old Save Bonus: Overlap
- One Nation Under Copyright: 1 & 3
- Overrated and Underleveled: Overlap
- Paper Tiger: Overlap
- Pretext for War: Overlap
- Public Domain Soundtrack: 1
- Puppet State: Overlap
- Pun: Overlap
- Red Scare: Overlap
- Refining Resources: Overlap
- Relationship Values: Overlap
- The Right of a Superior Species: Overlap, even if it covers only 3
- "Risk"-Style Map: Overlap
- River of Insanity: Overlap
- Royal Mess: Overlap
- RPG Elements: Overlap
- Save Scumming: 2 & 3
- Scare Chord: Overlap
- Schizo Tech: Overlap
- Shout-Out: Overlap
- So Last Season: Overlap
- Stupid Evil: 2
- Surprisingly Realistic Outcome: 2
- Tank Goodness: Overlap
- Tech Tree: Overlap
- Theme Naming: 2 & 3
- Turned Against Their Masters: Overlap
- United Europe: Overlap
- Unwanted Assistance: Overlap, but mostly 2 & 3
- Useless Useful Spell: Overlap
- Vestigial Empire: Overlap
- Video Game Caring Potential: Overlap
- Video Game Cruelty Potential: Overlap
- Video Game Historical Revisionism: Overlap
- War for Fun and Profit: Overlap
- We ARE Struggling Together: Overlap
- We Have Reserves: Overlap
- Wrong Turn at Albuquerque: Overlap
- You Require More Vespene Gas: Overlap
- Xanatos Speed Chess: 3
.
Once we cut "Overlap" and those that are in all three, but for whatever reason lack their own notes, we are left with:
- Anti-Frustration Features: 3, but 2 can be included with variety of features in it (artisans, migration, self-promotion and demotion etc)
- Department of Redundancy Department: 2 & 3
- Early-Installment Weirdness: 1, duh
- Easter Egg: 2
- Evil Is Petty: 3
- Flaw Exploitation: 2, also applies to 3
- Gambit Roulette: 3
- Insistent Terminology: 2 & 3
- Joke Character: 2 & 3
- Nice Job Breaking It, Hero: 2, applies to 3, too
- Notice This: 2
- One Nation Under Copyright: 1 & 3
- Public Domain Soundtrack: 1
- Save Scumming: 2 & 3
- Stupid Evil: 2
- Surprisingly Realistic Outcome: 2
- Theme Naming: 2 & 3
- Xanatos Speed Chess: 3
Wow, 18 tropes that aren't present in all three games, against the total of 123, 105 of which overlap. I can totally see the folders work for this one! Even better, let's start separate pages!
Edited by Tropiarz
Well, I'm not sure I entirely agree with you, but you're clearly willing to put far more effort into this than I am so, so I guess I'll concede for now.
Would anyone object if I hard split 3 to its own page? The game is different enough that I think mixing the tropes in with 1 and 2 gets confusing.
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own. Hide / Show Replies