To-do list:
- Since Rational Fic is now a Definition-Only Page, references to the term can be kept, but examples must be removed, and wicks that are not references to the term should also be removed. Progress is being kept using the Rational Wick Cleaning sandbox.
- Since there are multiple definitions of Rational Fic used offsite, the description may be amended to include those definitions. Note that this is optional, and does not have to be done through this thread (it may be done via the Trope Description Improvement Drive later on, for example).
- 4 of the wicks described works with rationalist protagonists.
- 9 were about Alternate Universe Fics where characters are more competent, which is similar to Fix Fic.
- 2 seemed more like Deconstruction Fics based on the information provided.
- 2 described works with internal logic that holds up to scrutiny.
- 5 were gushing.
The bulk of the description consists of gushing about how smart these works are, with lists of "good" and "bad" tropes and a paragraph about how Tropes Are Not Good tacked on at the end. There have been concerns about gushing since it
was launched (without TLP) in 2014. What it doesn't explain is what rationalism is, and most of the criteria — lack of contrivance, internal consistency, competent characters — can apply to any work.
The on-page examples vary wildly in quality; some are general plot summaries, some explain how the characters act rationally, and some are just the title. If it's a genre (which it might not be; Septimus Heap said it's more like a philosophy about how to write a story), then these works shouldn't have any descriptions at all.
Finally, the scope is unclear. "Fic" is usually considered a shorthand for fanfiction (as seen in titles such as Alternate Universe Fic, Accusation Fic, etc.), and while most of the examples are fanfics (which are soft-split into two folders even though the oneshots folder only has two examples) and Rational Fic is only listed on fanfic-related indexes, there are a sizeable number of original works as well. Rational Fiction and Rationalist Fiction are both redirects, but making one of them the "proper" title would be a lot less ambiguous.
Wick check:
The issue: To quote Tropes Needing TRS, Rational Fic has a gushy description that reads like a "So You Want To" page with a "Tropes Are Not Good" tacked on at the end. It has lists of "good" and "bad" tropes without explaining how they're used in the genre, doesn't explain what rationalism is, and the examples read like Fanfic Recs.Also, the name makes it sound like it's only about fanfics, but it isn't. The description explains why:
Because HPMoR marked the emergence (or at least, codification) of the genre, the name uses Fic instead of fiction; some fans use the terms Rational Fiction, Rationalist Fic, and Rationalist Fiction interchangeably, though most use Fiction for published/non-derivative works, and Rationalist for works that not only aim for realistic intelligence, but try to teach principles of rationality.
The wicks were chosen by pasting the contents of the related page into a list randomizer.
Wicks checked: 52/52 (Note: two Fanfic Recs pages are listed twice because they had two links to Rational Fic that fit into different folders.)
- FanficRecs.Animorphs: Parting the Clouds is a Rational Fic that takes place in an alternate universe where Cassie is recast as a rationalist. The series retells the events of Animorphs from Cassie's POV, emphasizing her knowledge of animal biology, zoology, as well as her diplomatic skills.
- Creator.AE Van Vogt: The Null-A novels are a classic example of this genre — one of the first to use aspects of rational thinking and non-Aristotelian logic as the basis for world-building and character interactions — and considered a major influence. Alfred Korzybski's phrase "The map is not the territory" is used as a slogan.
- Literature.Eden Green: Eden is a self-styled rationalist, and her thought processes are shown in pain-staking detail. Whereas Ron and Tedrin treat everything as a big adventure, Eden does her best (as an amateur) to apply scientific rationale to the symbiote and monsters.
- Literature.Mother Of Learning: There are almost no blunders on the protagonists’ part that can be called out on. To elaborate, the character doesn't do anything stupid based on the information they are provided with, rather than never make a mistake.
- Fanfic.Uzumaki Naruko To The Victor The Spoils V 2: It's a SeerKing fic, it's to be expected with notable examples being Naruko being introduced to her heritage much much sooner than in canon, Ino and Hinata moved from their canon teams in order to progress over their self-inflicted restraints, Kakashi being reprimanded for his lackluster teaching skills, etc.
- Fanfic.Chasing The Shadow: The story is written with the express intent of being less blatantly silly than the story writing of the original eventually became, and has thus far been relatively successful in that regard.
- Sandbox.Doc Future: The plot’s advancement or resolution never relies on an Idiot Ball, and the only times when a character makes a rash decision is when it fits their general personality. Conflicts are often resolved through conversations and attempts to understand the other side’s stance on the matter. Situations which could be easily dramatized by using tropes like petty jealousy or revenge also graciously spare the readers from the nausea and move in other directions instead.
- Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: SeerKing does this in Code Geass: The Prepared Rebellion to most Scrappys by way of making it a Rational Fic. In fact, the only one who seems to be stuck in a psudeo-Scrappy state is Suzaku, and even that's justified by establishing his Black-and-White Morality as a trauma-induced mental disorder.
- ChildOfTheStorm.Tropes Q To Z: As surprising as this might be, the fic is written at least partially in this style (it helps that the magic is drawn heavily from The Dresden Files), with the author noting that his main interest was in exploring the consequences of mixing worlds, with the reactions to the premise (Thor was James Potter, as part of a first run at the whole humility thing), and the reactions to those reactions, driving the plot. Additionally, it ticks most of the rest of the boxes for a fic along these lines; Foreshadowing and, to a lesser extent, Fridge Brilliance, abound, the most successful characters deploy out-of-the-box thinking, and the most successful character of all, resident Magnificent Bastard Doctor Strange, practically redefines Crazy-Prepared and takes a very coldly rational approach to matters (despite, or even because of, being at least slightly mad). However, we say 'partially', because the author also repeatedly emphasising that he writes characters as people, and they are therefore as prone to doing stupid, irrational things, because that's what people do - however, they always have some personal reason for such actions, meaning that generally It Makes Sense in Context. Also, this example on an objective page contains two YMMV items.
- Fanfic.Aporia: Played with. The author says: "It could be a rational-fic, but since idealistic philosophy is typically not seen as very rational, it’s only a philoso-fic instead". In any case, it's a thorough Deconstruction Fic, in a world with a deliberate shortage of Idiot Balls. Can genres even be "played with"?
- CodeGeassThePreparedRebellion.Tropes A To I: Death by Irony: Being a Rational Fic, many characters are smarter and more competent than their canonical counterparts. This, however, backfired big time on C.C.'s former contractor Mao, who was able to track her down months in advance compared to canon and ended up following her to Shinjuku and getting caught and killed in the crossfire for his troubles.
- Fanfic.Love Hina Like It Could Have Been: To an extent. The story's plot is basically "What if everyone in Love Hina actually thought a little bit instead of leaping blindly to the first conclusion they think of?" Examples are not arguable.
- FanficRecs.Game Of Thrones Ascent: (1)
- Warm Regards by Nathaniel Cornelius Caesar
- Recommended by: Charsi
- Status: Dormant
- Synopsis: Deconstruction of the Idiot Plot of marrying Jayne to Devan, with slight [Your Character]/Maester Lucas slash.
- Tags: Accusation Fic, Rational Fic
- Warm Regards
- Fanfic.The Price Of Revenge: Has elements of this. The characters avoid the Conflict Ball and (mostly Jason) the Villain Ball. While Bruce disagrees with Jason's methods, he does acknowledge that they work and he's willing to extent an olive branch to him.
- FanficRecs.Downton Abbey:
- Trust and Providence by Rachel Smith Cobleigh
- Recommended by: Naniee
- Status: Dormant
- Synopsis: What if Mary had trusted Matthew with her secret and immediately accepted his first proposal? An alternate universe starting from Series 1, Episode 6, interwoven with canon, that spans from 1914 - 1971. Includes depictions of intimacy, discussions of faith and philosophy, strong language, disturbing wartime imagery, racial slurs, and character death (but Mary/Matthew and Sybil/Tom end happily!)
- Pairing(s): Mary Crawley / Matthew Crawley, Sybil Crawley / Tom Branson, and to a lesser extent Edith Crawley / Anthony Strallan, John Bates / Anna Smith, Cora Crawley / Robert Crawley, and Charles Carson / Elsie Hughes (all het)
- Rating: M
- Tags: Better Than Canon, Alternate Universe Fic, Fix Fic, Wish-Fulfillment, Divergence, Stations of the Canon, Drama, Shipping, Romance, Angst, W.A.F.F., Hurt/Comfort Fic, Rational Fic, Prayer Is a Last Resort, Crisis of Faith, Break the Believer, God Is Good, In Mysterious Ways, makes reference to a previous Out with a Bang
- Trust and Providence
- FanficRecs.Doki Doki Literature Club: (1) One of the best parts is the Rational Fic treatment the author gives to the entire In Another World With My Smartphone cast and worlbuilding. To name a few, it took some time for twin sisters Linze and Elze to actually trust someone as eccentric as Playa until they realized that he's more of One of the Kids than actually dangerous except when circumstances take a turn for the serious. The King and Duke of Belfast are warily welcome of him and his "spirit companion" because their power and early 21st century understanding of politics, military, and economics makes them all-too-capable of improving or destroying a kingdom like theirs. Princess Yumina doesn't fall in Love at First Sight with him, yet she still wants to get married to him because her empathic powers tell her he's uniquely unlikely to use her for political power or wealth, nor he'll feel threatened if she eclipses him by actually ruling Belfast despite the kingdom's Heir Club for Men laws and culture.
- Fanfic.Naruto The Game Of Life: A lot of named characters behave a lot more intelligently than in canon. Partial-context example.
- Fanfic Tropes: A fan fiction that has the characters think more rationally than they did in the source material.
- Fanfic.With This Ring: The story has shades of this as it showcases how much improvement the world could actually be when all that advanced hero and villain tech is put to good use. It also doesn't shy away from the consequences of crisis events such as Displaced either.
- Fanfic.The World Is Your Oyster The Universe Is Your Namesake: Intended as such, goes into the reasons for the Empire’s interest in earth and the long term consequences. Talking about the larger effec the Gems presence has had on earth and more.
- Literature.The Iron Teeth: The story's world-building is intended to stand up to careful thought and follow logical rules. This is partial-context. How does it hold up to scrutiny? What are those logical rules?
- She-Ra and the Princesses of Power:
- World War Etheria by MHD
- Recommended by: Third-attemptS
- Status: Completed
- Synopsis: She-re 2018 is a masterpiece in writing and representation but it's still a kid's show. What would it be like with consistent worldbuilding (such as the logistics needed to actually win wars), adult relationships and morality while still maintaining the hopeful tone of the series.
- Tags: Filling in the Blanks, Rational Fic
- Literature.Ibyabek: Ibyabek is a story by Glowfic and Rational Fic writer Alicorn (of Luminosity fame), featuring North Korea IN SPACE!. Written for NaNoWriMo.
- FanficRecs.Game Of Thrones Ascent: (2)
- The Trial of Tyana of Crakehall by Nathaniel Cornelius Caesar
- Recommended by: Charsi
- Status: Complete
- Synopsis: Your character is a Reasonable Authority Figure and gives Tyana the justice she deserves. Groat and Rona are called out as well.
- Tags: Accusation Fic, Fix Fic, Rational Fic
- The Trial of Tyana of Crakehall
- Sufficiently Analyzed Magic: A subtrope of Fantastic Science. Compare and contrast The Spark of Genius. Can be a direct result of Rational Fic.
- Administrivia.Tropes Needing TRS: Gushy description that reads like a "So You Want To" page with a "Tropes Are Not Good" tacked on at the end. It has lists of "good" and "bad" tropes without explaining how they're used in the genre, doesn't explain what rationalism is, and the examples read like Fanfic Recs.
- Rational Fiction: Redirect
- Fanfic.Parting The Clouds: Cassie is recast as a rationalist.
- Fanfic.Owls And Souls Witches And Resonance: To a degree, as several major characters have some amount of Adaptational Intelligence.
- Fanfic: A fan fiction written to reward the canon author for their good thinking. "Reward the canon author"? No... that's not what this genre means at all.
- Decon-Recon Switch: Saga of Soul is a Rational Fic take on a Magical Girl Warrior defending Tokyo from the Monster of the Week. It constantly flips the switch in showing how seemingly superfluous elements of the genre can make sense. This is commented-out as a zero-context example.
- Fanfic.Friendship Is Optimal: Friendship is Optimal is a My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic rational story by Iceman.
- Fanfic.Life Ore Death: This story has shades of it, but just as often comes up with reasonable in-universe reasons for the irrational events as having them replaced by rational occurrences. Also, people don’t always have perfect information or judgment, so everything tends to be a Gambit Pileup.
- Literature.Fine Structure: A Web Serial Novel of rational science fiction short stories by Sam Hughes, kept on his website, Things of Interest, and on Everything2.
- Rationalist Fiction: Another redirect.
- Fanfic.Code Geass The Prepared Rebellion: Code Geass: The Prepared Rebellion is a Code Geass Fan Fic that is a mix of Alternate Universe Fic and Rational Fic written by SeerKing.
- Pantheon.Writing Techniques:
- Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, God of Rationalist Fiction (General Chaos, Harryzer, The-Boy-Who-Destroyed-A-Dementor, Tom Riddle, Good Voldemort)
- Finding a candidate for Rational Fic had been a daunting task, mainly because the best candidates were from fanfics, and several of them already have canon counterparts in the Pantheon. And then someone in the Court of the Gods found an ideal pick, and his case was argued with the fact that as a fanfic trope, only a Fanfic character can properly hold it, and he is the most well-known representative of it. This example is commented-out on the page, but it highlights the confusion about if this is a fanfic-exclusive genre or not.
- Fanfic.Ashikabi Of Thunder And Lightning: Considering the author, it's not a surprise that many characters act more rationally than in canon.
- Literature.Three Worlds Collide: Three Worlds Collide is a rational web novella by Eliezer Yudkowsky of the semi-firm SF variety.
- Creator.Lawrence Watt Evans: Lawrence Watt-Evans is a primarily Speculative Fiction writer who also works in comic books, and has dabbled in a few other genres. He's most famous for The Legends of Ethshar series, and for a tendency towards Deconstruction and Rational Fic.
- Pantheon.Other Media: Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, God of Rationalist Fiction (General Chaos, Harryzer, Tom Riddle, Good Voldemort) as an Intermediate God in the Hall of Writing Techniques (House of Narrative)
- Fanfic.Harry Potter And The Methods Of Rationality: Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality is a Harry Potter rational fanfic by Eliezer Yudkowsky, AI researcher and decision theorist.
- Literature.Saga Of Soul: A must read for any troper considering the Magical Girl career.
- Fanfic.Sunshine Superman: As the story is set in the Silver Age and is filled with illogical superhero shenanigans, Sunshine confronts all of this.
- Fanfic.Luminosity: Luminosity is a Twilight rational fanfiction series by Alicorn, which can be read here.
- FanficRecs.Sekirei: Comments: As with most Seer King's works, expect this to have a lot of Rational Fic tropes present. This is about Ashikabi of Thunder and Lightning.
- Roleplay.Marked For Death: Marked for Death is a rational Naruto quest focused on a group of ninja from Hidden Mist.
- Literature.Worth The Candle: A rational look at Trapped in Another World stories. It's easy to think the whole thing's just an excuse for Alexander Wales to show off his Worldbuilding chops.
- Fanfic.Pokemon The Origin Of Species: Pokemon: The Origin of Species is a rational fanfic of the Pokémon games by Daystar Eld.
- Fanfic.In Another World With Just Monika: In Another World with JUST MONIKA is a Doki Doki Literature Club! and In Another World With My Smartphone crossover by Charles Bhepin, notable for being a really well-balanced mix of Crack Fic and Rational Fic.
- FanficRecs.Doki Doki Literature Club: (2) Tags: It should be called a Crack Fic, but it's too much of a Rational Fic and the two main characters are WAY too well-read for that.
- AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.Fan Works: Is Lelouch more stable in Code Geass: The Prepared Rebellion because of the Rational Fic trope, or the You Need to Get Laid trope?
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 31st 2022 at 8:35:50 AM
(she/her)
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Unclear name, unclear description, didn't go through TLP, devoid of correct examples... I think we should just cut this.
Edit: Crap, bad idea with that many inbounds (44,922, despite less than 100 wicks). Let's redirect to Competence Porn instead because that's the closest to what this was supposed to be from what I can tell.
Edit: Actually, scratch that. If other sites cover this sort of thing, let's make it definition-only instead of cutting or redirecting. We did that with Bellisario's Maxim, which this is supposedly the antithesis of.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 21st 2022 at 6:33:45 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I was thinking we could yard it and figure out more clear criteria, or less drastically, rewrite the description and remove all the examples that don't fit.
Edited by NitroIndigo on Oct 21st 2022 at 12:34:02 PM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Perhaps we could Yard it while redirecting to Competence Porn if we get rid of it instead of making it definition-only. I just don't think we should do a full-fledged cut with that many inbounds. Redirecting would be a stopgap until/unless someone relaunches it in a better state.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 21st 2022 at 6:35:57 AM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
How sweet it is
Redirecting can work.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
I think cutting this page is a bit drastic.
If not for the inbounds, I'd actually have supported the cut. I have no idea what the intent behind this trope is, and it looks more like a vaguely defined fanfic tag rather than an actual trope.
Between merging and turning into Definition-only page, I lean towards merge.
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
Hmm... I can get behind making this a definition-only page.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to a merge. If the definition is unclear, I would not support a Definition-Only conversion.
Rational Fic, from the cursory googling I did, doesn't seem like it's a thing outside of fan fiction. And even then, the only consistency of the genre seems to be the following "rules":
- Nothing happens solely because 'the plot requires it'. If characters do (or don't do) something, there must be a plausible reason.
- Any factions are defined and driven into conflict by their beliefs and values, not just by being "good" or "evil".
- The characters solve problems through the intelligent application of their knowledge and resources.
- The rules of the fictional world are sane and consistent.
At best, it can probably stand as a fanspeak page (which is basically the same as making it def only). Redirecting to Competence Porn is also fine since that's what it seems like anyways. But I'd also be ok with an outright cut, tbh. I know we won't because the inbounds are many, but just saying
Edited by amathieu13 on Oct 21st 2022 at 12:14:00 PM
The Unknown
So I did my own Googling and got some interesting data.
First, there were barely any results. Like a single page's worth. One of the places I was directed to was AO3, but the tag for Rational Fic sees so little use that you can't filter for it normally. Odd considering the inbound count suggests it's way more popular.
The other site of note was Goodreads, which has 166 stories tagged as such. The problem here is that the tag is Rational Fiction specifically, and I'm not entirely sure if the stories hosted on Goodreads are original, fanfiction, or some combination of both.
However, Goodreads also says the term originated from a popular(?) fanfic called Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. That page also has a shitton of inbounds, and possibly explains the wick/inbound discrepancy here.
I propose disambiging and including that fanfic page since this doesn't seem to be an actual genre and people might be looking for that fic anyway.
Edited by Karxrida on Oct 21st 2022 at 10:03:42 AM
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
Also worth noting is that underneath the "examples" header is a list of top 5 rationalist fictions as voted by a Facebook group. Two are fanfics, two are original web prose, and the other is a redlink so I don't know. So if this really is a genre, it's definitely a young one.
Edited by NitroIndigo on Oct 21st 2022 at 5:42:27 PM
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
The fact that it's used offsite at all (between the links you gave and the Subreddit dedicated to them linked to in the opening post) is why I suggested making it a Definition Only Fan Speak page.
Edit: Accidentally typed "is all" instead of "at all". Whoops. That's been fixed.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 21st 2022 at 12:48:22 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
the Retromancer
It sounds like an outside-defined-and-used thing with examples not matching the definition. So I support Def-Only over other options.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
♀ | Small ripples lead to big waves
Come to think of it, since over half the wicks in my check were either in work descriptions or on Fanfic Recs (ie: not bullets below the example line), making it definition-only would make a lot of sense. It wouldn't change much about how it's currently wicked.
The Unknown
x3 I'm not denying it sees use off-site, but it seems like it borders on Too Rare to Trope.
I'm not against DO or anything but wanted to throw the option out there.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Just stoic wisdom.
Methods of Rationality was a massively popular fic in its time, though I could never get into it. I could see Def-Only but I'll sit back and wait for the crowner options before taking a strong stance.
Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker Mail
I'm helping!
We're putting our vote on def-only/fanspeak, with a mention that Competence Porn contains examples of works that are likely to fit.
(We'd guess the tag isn't common on AO3 because HPMOR wasn't posted there, so the idea wouldn't have caught on so readily among fans who used primarily that site.)
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
What, me worry?
Def-only
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
We are also going to need input from editors who use this "genre" page (genre articles aren't listed in the trope list any more than release indexes are).
~ThrawnCA, ~partner555, ~infernape612, and ~Grollo may be able to share some thoughts about the page.
Generally speaking, "Rational Fiction" and "Rationalist Fiction" are conflated. But while most of what gets the Rational Fiction label is something that we'd label Competence Porn, the Rationalist stories have the genesis of a new genre. I think that it is probably too new for us to really have an article for it.
I think the current article was made far too early, made mostly because the idea was being discussed by a small group of writers, well before the concept really had time to spread. Technically, it probably is still too early. A genre doesn't get created overnight, it takes iteration and modification. The idea of teaching skills to think better is an interesting thing that can be added to storytelling.
Avoiding certain tropes, on the other hand, isn't a concept that really unites stories. Science Hero, Transhumanism, Competence Porn, those unite stories, but I don't think it can really be considered a genre rather than a writing philosophy like "let the characters tell you what to do" or "when in doubt, a gunman kicks down the door", or "scenes should be written from the perspective of the character who suffers the most in that scene".
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
We could always rewrite the description if we make it definition-only (possibly renaming it to Rationalist Fiction in the process if that's the one we're going to be defining if we make this definition-only). We did that when we made Fuku Fic Fan Speak because it was discovered that other sites were using it in a way that was broader than what we originally had written down, so we adjusted the description to match offsite usage.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 21st 2022 at 12:56:56 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
"Rationalist" fic, as far as I'm aware, is pretty distinct from "rational". It's specifically about demonstrating and teaching principles of rationality; something like the intersection of rational fic and Author Tract.
Changing the description and the name from Rational to Rationalist may as well be creating a new page.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
What I was saying is that we could possibly do that if it has consensus, after which someone could sandbox it. Though we can Yard it if nobody has any ideas for how to write it.
Edit: And having Rational Fic and Rationalist Fiction as separate pages, possibly with both being definition-only, would be an option (with or without handling the latter's text through this thread instead of Yarding it).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 22nd 2022 at 2:23:12 PM
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Crown Description:
What should be done with Rational Fic?
To-do list:
The bulk of the description consists of gushing about how smart these works are, with lists of "good" and "bad" tropes and a paragraph about how Tropes Are Not Good tacked on at the end. There have been concerns about gushing since it
was launched
(without TLP
) in 2014. What it doesn't explain is what rationalism is, and most of the criteria — lack of contrivance, internal consistency, competent characters — can apply to any work.
The on-page examples vary wildly in quality; some are general plot summaries, some explain how the characters act rationally, and some are just the title. If it's a genre (which it might not be; Septimus Heap said
it's more like a philosophy about how to write a story), then these works shouldn't have any descriptions at all.
Finally, the scope is unclear. "Fic" is usually considered a shorthand for fanfiction (as seen in titles such as Alternate Universe Fic, Accusation Fic, etc.), and while most of the examples are fanfics (which are soft-split into two folders even though the oneshots folder only has two examples) and Rational Fic is only listed on fanfic-related indexes, there are a sizeable number of original works as well. Rational Fiction and Rationalist Fiction are both redirects, but making one of them the "proper" title would be a lot less ambiguous.
Wick check:
The issue: To quote Tropes Needing TRS, Rational Fic has a gushy description that reads like a "So You Want To" page with a "Tropes Are Not Good" tacked on at the end. It has lists of "good" and "bad" tropes without explaining how they're used in the genre, doesn't explain what rationalism is, and the examples read like Fanfic Recs.Also, the name makes it sound like it's only about fanfics, but it isn't. The description explains why:
Because HPMoR marked the emergence (or at least, codification) of the genre, the name uses Fic instead of fiction; some fans use the terms Rational Fiction, Rationalist Fic, and Rationalist Fiction interchangeably, though most use Fiction for published/non-derivative works, and Rationalist for works that not only aim for realistic intelligence, but try to teach principles of rationality.
Relevant Trope Talk thread.
The wicks were chosen by pasting the contents of the related page into a list randomizer
.
Wicks checked: 52/52 (Note: two Fanfic Recs pages are listed twice because they had two links to Rational Fic that fit into different folders.)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 31st 2022 at 8:35:50 AM